When The Truth Matters… (Hour 1)

Good morning and welcome, welcome to Matinair on air.

Jane Matinair, Greg Bach and Calvin Butenoff coming to you live from our studio here at Radio Park in Racine.

You can always join us, call or text.

The number is the same 855-752-4842.

You can leave a comment if you're watching on the live stream on Facebook, YouTube and what used to be Twitter Monday, April 28th coming up.

After the 930 news

I'm still getting used to the hours.

It's throwing me a little bit.

You did it earlier today.

You said, do you want to do this at 1130?

Then you said 1030, and my brain went, yeah, 1130.

Wait, why'd you say

1030?

What?

Yep, it all makes sense.

Not quite a full week since we've had the new lineup across Civic Media.

We moved up an hour.

So we are on the air now from 9 to 11.

So coming up at 930.

Yes.

After the 930 news, Joseph Pecky will be here.

Political consultant, friend of the show, friend of Civic Media.

and now also putting his hat in the running to take over from Ben Wickler here in Wisconsin and the head of the Democratic Party.

It's gonna be great to hear from him and his message.

I know we've had Joe on so many times and he's been all over the civic media network.

If you know Joe, you know what his attitude is towards voting, towards the party, towards getting work done.

And

I'll say it to him then and I'll say it now.

I feel like,

The model that Ben Wickler has designed will be in safe hands with Joe, but we want to hear from all people who want to know what's going on.

So

it'll be great to hear from him after 9 30.

Yep, Joe is coming up next hour.

Will Westmoreland is coming back.

He has a channel on YouTube called the back 40.

He is a farmer in Southwestern Missouri.

And we had talked to him a couple of months back when he went viral.

responding to a young farmer who was very concerned about all the freezes under the Trump administration.

And in particular, there were particular farming programs where farmers were encouraged to invest in various things, whether it be solar or other things.

And a lot of these projects are underway and were already underway when that money got frozen.

So Will was responding to this young farmer.

And I'm just curious to see how things are now.

That was about two months ago that we talked to him.

Yeah.

I want to hold out for optimism, but I don't know at this point.

What I do know is that Will, he did exactly the right thing.

He opened the channel for a dialogue.

Yes.

Not, didn't make fun of the guy,

didn't

do anything.

Just said, Hey, talk to me.

Let's talk.

Well, and the other thing that I think is really impactful.

And he said, look, he said, I don't expect you to say that you were wrong.

If you voted for Donald Trump, or that you got duped, all I'm asking is that you admit that you got lied to.

Yeah, exactly.

So we will be talking to Will after the 10 o'clock news.

And then at 1033, I'm still... It's not even a full week yet.

And when you

said

10 o'clock, I'm like... What?

Back in my day this show started at 10 a.m.

Yeah after the after will joins us at 10 30 is the segment that has developed developed into audio Sorbet Just kind of organically where we lighten things up a little bit so we can take a break and take a breath

and get away from the news just for a little bit.

The nominees for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame have been announced.

Everybody's got complaints.

Everybody's got favorites who haven't been in yet.

So that's what we're talking about at 1033.

One of your favorite bands who hasn't made it into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame yet.

You have a whole list, don't

you?

No, no, no.

It is applicable to this conversation, this class, everything from 2025.

I have thoughts.

All right, then.

That will be after 10.30.

Think about your bands, your favorite band that you would like to see in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, and they're still languishing somewhere on the sidelines.

And then we'll wrap up the show as we always do.

With this shouldn't be a thing.

Today it's the Climb Every Mountain Edition, literally.

So stay tuned for that.

As we mentioned when we just joined Pat Crichtlow's show at the very end there, we wanted to start off with talking about

Milwaukee County Circuit Judge Hannah Dugan, who was arrested on Friday in Milwaukee on allegations that she tried to help an undocumented immigrant avoid arrest after he appeared in her courtroom.

Judge Dugan was charged with two felonies, then she was later released.

In a 13-page complaint, the judge is accused of obstructing a U.S.

agency and concealing Eduardo Flores Ruiz

a Mexican immigrant to prevent his arrest.

The two charges against Dugan carry a maximum of six years in prison and a $350,000 fine.

This is all over the place.

This obviously hit national news on Friday when this happened.

And there have been not really many developments since then, but I have noticed in some articles, depending upon where it's sourced from,

they're missing a couple of details.

And that, you know, you say that, cause I, you know, I felt I was pretty up to speed on this.

And then this morning Pat talked about this topic as well.

And he brought them some things to light where I'm like, wait, what?

And then you talked about it with me this morning before the show.

And yeah, there are news outlets and we're not talking left and right and, you know, OAN versus CNN.

We're talking about just newspapers.

who are leaving out what details, Jane?

Well, they're leaving out this.

So Judge Dugan is accused of allowing this suspect and his attorney to exit a different door.

It still led into the public area outside of her courtroom.

It wasn't some super secret hallway that led him out the building.

So he was never seen by anyone.

It was a different hallway, not typically used by the public, but it still entered out.

into the public area outside of her courtroom.

There were ICE agents in there who saw him.

There was an ICE agent who rode in the elevator with this man and his attorney down to the ground floor and then out onto the street where he was then taken into custody.

In at least a couple of articles that I've seen, those details aren't there.

And I think that's important.

That's very important because it really

allows the obstruction of justice charge to really crumble.

Honestly, when it comes down to it, people have been calling for the imprisonment for life of the judge and people have been saying, how dare she and this and that's like, I'm not really, someone else show me what she did so wrong other than just show them a different door.

And it wasn't even, it wasn't wrong.

It's just what she did.

And the ICE agents just didn't arrest him until he was outside.

Yes.

That's my understanding.

Again, this is an ongoing situation.

This is an ongoing story.

But that's just something that really jumped out at me, depending upon what article you read.

Details, details.

It's kind of important.

And I stumbled upon, rather, a couple of letters to the editor in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, which I think are interesting to get help.

get a sense of what people are thinking about this.

This one letter, rather to the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, says the important question at the heart of this case is one of due process.

The Milwaukee County Courthouse judges want federal agents to bring federal judge issued warrants to court if they want to detain someone in the courthouse.

ICE, according to the complaint, brought its own warrant, not one from a judge.

Yes, correct.

There is a distinction there.

In recent days, the federal justice department has acknowledged mistakes.

In deporting people, it has deported.

It seems not terribly worried about those mistakes.

It's not a surprise that a judge, federal or state would not want to be party to such a mistake.

If ACE was so certain it had evidence to arrest that suspect, it should have been easy to get a federal warrant from a judge, from a federal judge.

Every one of us should be worried about illegal search, seizure and detention.

Any judge would want to uphold those protections in his or her courtroom.

That's a letter from Kathy from Whitefish Bay.

We had someone on the live stream saying that none of this information changes anything and that's that is a legal question I would love to ask Jim Santel if what we're looking at from the story is that she literally opened a door and led him into a place where he was visible to those agents They were in the same room in the elevator at what where is there?

Where is there an obstruction chart?

Where did she obstruct justice in any way shape or form other than?

Nothing.

I'm not a lawyer, but I

don't see anything here.

Another letter to the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel.

This is from Alex in Milwaukee.

All persons have a constitutional right to do process, including non-citizens and persons accused of crimes.

This right to have your day in court is so important it may at times trump other important government processes.

That is democracy.

The problem with ICE arresting persons at the courthouse is that people can be lured there.

under the process of due process just to be arrested.

Let ICE chase down people anywhere else but the courthouse.

Don't make judges part of the system of deception.

You're asking them to violate their oath of office to defend the Constitution by denying due process.

Again, this is a letter, an opinion letter sent into the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel.

And finally, the Republicans who support Trump and his policies have zero credibility when they talk about law and order.

He's a convicted felon.

Yes, he is.

who pardoned violent protesters who tried to derail democracy, and when the Trump policies conflict with our community's values, the latter should predominate.

The courthouse is the haven for members of our community seeking safety and justice.

To compromise access by intimidation is disgraceful.

And Kathy from Milwaukee also says, I feel like the actions of the federal government were outrageous.

Justice isn't their intention, intimidation is.

And I saw some other articles as well.

Donald Trump was charged with 34 felonies.

Yes,

he was.

They didn't perp walk him.

They didn't show up somewhere and put him in cuffs.

No.

They did to Judge Dugan.

Yeah.

It's my understanding.

And again, Jim Santel, who is an attorney, they could have just said, we need you in court at two o'clock today on this subject.

on this action.

That seems very performative.

Yes, that was the exact word I was looking for, James.

This is performative.

And honestly, that is what it's been almost this entire time, making these grand sweeping actions that make it look like the heroes of the day, saving America from these total terrorists and criminals who some aren't, some may be.

Some are American citizens now we're seeing where I mean this is turning into a fiasco and where does it stop and there are people on the live stream and people in the text line who are telling us how wrong we are, but I asked the question Do you feel so comfortable as to say it's fine because one day they can knock on your door for whatever reason they want I'm not I'm really not trying to scare you either it frightens me but the notion that if they can make quote-unquote

mistakes.

When am I going to be that mistake?

When are you going to be the one is a law abiding, mega faithful, not going to be enough or, you know, just.

Well,

and speaking of mistakes, Kilmar Abrego Garcia is still in El Salvador, we think.

Yeah.

John Kennedy, Senator John Kennedy on TV over the weekend said he's never coming back ever.

Oh, that's that's never ever coming back.

It was a mistake.

They deported him mistakenly.

But now it's too late.

And yeah, oh, well,

so sad.

And I believe Pam Bondi and, um, forgive me, uh, the White House press secretary have said to say never coming back.

They'll never be back in this country again.

Okay.

Well, I hope you're wrong, but I wouldn't be, don't, yeah.

I think that, yeah, this is all performative, but unfortunately the performance is harming lives and family and

our democracy.

Maggie Dawn is going to be talking more about this.

The latest from the judge Dugan arrest in Milwaukee and other headlines later on today.

Join Maggie today from 4 to 6 PM right here on the Civic Media Radio.

Nick works.

Stay close.

We'll be right back.

Good morning.

Welcome.

Welcome to Matt Nair on Air.

Jane Matt Nair, Greg Bach.

And sweet Calbee coming to you live from our studio here at Radio Park in Racine.

You can join us, you can call, you can text.

The number is the same.

855-752-4842.

Leave a comment if you're watching on the live stream on Facebook, YouTube, and what used to be Twitter.

Coming up after the 930 news, Joseph Heckey.

We'll be joining us political consultant also with his hat in the ring to take over from Ben Wickler to hit up the Wisconsin Democrats.

We'll be talking to Joe after the 9 30 news.

So stick around for that.

This is something that we wanted to talk about for at least a week.

And it kept getting bumped because so many things happen.

The news continues to news.

But this is important.

And it came up yesterday.

60 minutes.

This was from last week from CNN.

60 minutes, executive producer resigns citing a loss of independence in the wake of Trump lawsuit.

In case you have forgotten, Donald Trump sued 60 minutes over an interview with Kamala Harris.

Yeah.

Because he didn't like the way they edited it, essentially.

He also had a problem with 60 minutes.

when he felt that the interview Leslie Stahl did with Joe Biden was softball questions.

The problem was Leslie Stahl didn't interview Joe.

So like he's had a problem with 60 minutes for a while now.

He has a problem with anyone who doesn't, who doesn't essentially make him look, you know, how he wants to look.

Shane, what am I thinking?

You're right.

Yeah, he really does.

So this executive producer stepped down.

Legendary.

legendary 60 minutes producer.

And of course, Trump has repeatedly called for the network to lose its license.

He wants the FCC to punish the broadcaster.

Ultimately, 60 minutes did give the Trump administration the full transcript and video of this interview to the FCC.

And Trump and Paramount this month agreed on a mediator.

Wow.

In the lawsuit.

Just like we're seeing law firms around the country.

Yeah, capitulate.

Yep.

This is kind of what we're seeing with some of our media outlets.

Yep.

He's just gonna Trump.

Donald John Trump is a bully.

And the only way bullies win is when they push and push and you finally give them your lunch money.

And we've, we're seeing that from world leaders.

We're seeing that from networks.

We're seeing that from businesses.

He wants his little way.

Baby gotta have his bottle.

And now he's getting it with 60 minutes, which, you know, completely such a left-wing liberal media

outlet with

60 minutes.

Oh my goodness.

Yeah.

We do have some sound.

Yes, we do.

This was the 60 minute, the last minute from last night's episode.

Please remind me of Scott Pelli.

Scott Pelli did the last minute and he basically gave the layout of what's going on here.

Calvin, can you please play that clip?

In tonight's last minute, a note on Bill Owens, who until this past week was executive producer of 60 Minutes.

He was our boss.

Bill was with CBS News nearly 40 years, 26 years at 60 Minutes.

He covered the world, covered combat, the White House.

His was a quest to open minds, not close them.

If you've ever worked hard for a boss because you admired him, then you understand what we've enjoyed here.

Bill resigned Tuesday.

It was hard on him and hard on us, but he did it for us and you.

Stories we pursued for 57 years are often controversial.

Lately, the Israel Gaza War and the Trump administration.

Bill made sure they were accurate and fair.

He was tough that way.

But our parent company, Paramount, is trying to complete a merger.

The Trump administration must approve it.

Paramount began to supervise our content in new ways.

None of our stories has been blocked, but Bill felt he lost the independence that honest journalism requires.

No one here is happy about it, but in resigning.

Bill proved one thing.

He was the right person to lead 60 minutes all along.

Man

has integrity.

Yeah.

I mean, you work for a show that long, that is his baby Bill Owens, like I said, is a legend, especially with that show.

But he left before they could tell him what to do.

Because it's the wrong thing to do.

And they haven't censored their stories yet.

and shame on Paramount for doing what they've done because this is the first step.

Well, and I think it's really absurd for people to think that just because the bully got your lunch money once, he's not going to ask for your lunch money again and again and again and again.

Bill, from Accounting Milwaukee, you get the last word before we wrap things up before the news.

Bill, thank you for joining us.

What do you want to say about this?

Well, Trump picked the fight with the wrong people, the judicial side of our government.

And if you want to upset people, upset some attorneys, and you know what I'm talking about?

And Matt Flynn and Jim Santel can back me on what I'm talking about.

Trump is vulnerable.

And when the right guy shows up, it's over, Rover.

And there's going to be a message, comply or resign.

Yeah.

Thanks, Bill.

Appreciate you checking in.

I mean, right now, it's the lawyers.

We've talked to Jim Santel about this.

It's the lawyers and the judges who are standing up for our constitution, our democracy and our process.

And we need an independent media, my friends.

Yes, we do.

No matter who's in office.

Correct.

No matter who is in office.

All right.

We have news coming up next.

And then when we return, friend of the show.

And now running to head up the Wisconsin Democratic Party, Joseph Heckey will be here, so stay close.

You are listening to Matt Nair on air.

This is the Civic Media Radio Network.

Good good morning and welcome welcome to Matt Nair on air Jane Matt Nair Greg Bach doctor slide on the board coming to you from our studio here at Radio Park in Racine you can always join us call or text the number is the same 855-752-4842 leave a comment if you're watching on the live stream on Facebook YouTube and what used to be Twitter you can say stay up to date

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All you have to do is subscribe to the Civic Media Digest.

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You can get top podcast hours of your favorite Civic Media shows.

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Just like that.

Go to civicmedia.us slash email.

Delighted to be joined by our friend of Civic Media and now in the running for the chair of the Wisconsin Democratic Party, Joseph Pecky is here.

You look pretty good considering you've been gone for like all weekend traveling and putting on miles.

How are you this morning, Joseph Pecky?

I'm feeling well rested.

Are you sleeping my own bed for the first time in a couple of days?

Nice.

See my wife, see my dog.

Barely got to see the kids, but that's okay.

I remember what they looked like.

I remember them.

I remember them.

Yeah, no, it was it was a long weekend, but it was it was a lot of fun.

A lot of support out there.

A lot of fired up Democrats who are willing to get to work.

So it was great.

I am curious now.

as you are in the running for this position and you do have some some challengers as well.

There are several people who want to take over from Ben Wickler.

So how do you sell yourself?

I'm just curious.

I just got to be myself is the only way I think it's worth doing.

You know, this is not something I ever thought that was going to be the career path for me.

Seriously?

Oh, not at a hundred years.

Think about how long we've known each other, Jane.

Have I ever suggested to you that for a single second, it was my goal to be the chair of the Democratic Party?

No, of course not.

But to me, what ended up happening here is I tried to do what I always do, which is listen, take feedback, get different perspectives, and try to make an informed, smart choice.

And this conversation that my wife and I and some friends of mine and some people within the broader Democratic Party and I started having back in January when the assumption was that Ben was gonna move up to the DNC and Wisconsin Democrats were gonna have to figure out what was next.

And at that point, there weren't a lot of folks stepping up and putting their name forward.

And there was some concern about what would happen.

And so I told people I would think about it and have conversations about it.

And I did.

And then when Ken Martin became the DNC chair, I think we all sort of assumed, OK, well, Ben's going to be our Ben for another couple of years.

And that's the way we're going to go.

And then when he decided to move on, there were folks who immediately jumped into the race, who hadn't been considering it previously.

And then there was my approach, which was to say, okay, now we've got a new reality.

Let's do what we believe is the right thing, which is get back on the phone, get back around the state, talk to people, see what they think about where we go from here and what we need.

And what I heard was,

more of an appetite for change and more of an appetite for the kind of background and experience and perspective and style that I have, then frankly, I had anticipated.

And so after a week of kicking it around and thinking it through with folks about 10 days ago now or maybe 11 days ago, I know it was a Thursday of that, I'm sure.

We announced the campaign and we did so in a way that none of the other candidates did.

which was with day one support, these are the public endorsers who are willing to say, we're with Joe, we think this is the approach, and we very intentionally tried to reflect the diversity of our coalition.

Demographically, geographically, you know, black, white, young, young at heart, like Jane, you know, urban, rural, suburban, you name it, you know, far left, you know, closer to the center on the ideological spectrum.

We have a big,

beautiful tent on the Democratic side and I think if you go to josepecky.com and look at that list of folks which is now up to 27 and it'll grow again this week with some support we picked up over the weekend you will see yourself reflected in the Democratic Party or your place in the Democratic Party by the broadness and diversity of the folks who are with me and that's the coalition we're trying to build and we hope to build for the next

seven weeks, I think we have left six

and a half.

Yeah, it's in June, right?

June 14th,

15th in Wisconsin Dells.

Joe, you mentioned it, you know, regardless of where you are in Wisconsin, I think that's an important distinction to make and an important point to make because, you know, Democrat, the notion Democrats, Madison, Milwaukee, Madison, Milwaukee, but we have Democrats in Bayfield, Ashland.

probably but or not, you know, all over the state, especially, especially farmers who, I mean, I don't want to put them on a political idea, ideological scale, but like, you know, this notion that farmers support Trump, but that's not always true.

And we also want to find out how they're doing and how these policies are affecting them and the work that needs to be done to, you know, make their voices heard.

And I think that's an important voice to highlight, especially in what you're talking about.

Amen.

So let me tell you a little bit about where I was over the course of this weekend because I heard from a lot of rural Democrats.

Did

you good?

And you know, so I started in Baraboo You know up in Salk County sat down.

That's a pretty rural community.

It's a pretty swing County in statewide elections And we just did a little listening session, right?

It wasn't anything fancy It just you know, some folks over lunchtime want it, you know We're willing to come and and ask questions and poke the bear and you know So we started there then I went up to Hayward, Wisconsin

for a little dinner the night before the seventh CD convention and had the opportunity to speak with a number of folks Saturday morning at that convention in Hayward before I busted down to La Crosse for the third CD convention.

You know, that's another pretty rural county.

Of course, there are, you know, communities like La Crosse and Eau Claire, but there are also a lot of smaller rural counties out west.

And then

started heading back east, went to Madison for the second CD convention.

Obviously, Dane County, Madison, infamous, famous, insert your adjective here.

And a lot of those counties around Dane in the second CD are very rural, which are green Lafayette County places that feel much more similar to some of those smaller western Wisconsin third CD counties than they do similar to Dane.

And so I heard over and over again all week that rural parts of our community and our coalition are not feeling represented or not feeling seen and are not feeling heard.

And that's the most important thing is we cannot afford to, in a 50-50 state like Wisconsin, write off any part of our coalition and shame on us if we do.

And so when people would say, hey, only 35% of the Democratic

you know, ticket statewide vote comes from Milwaukee and Madison.

The other two thirds comes from everywhere else.

What are you gonna do?

And my immediate question back is, you tell me what we're gonna do.

This is part of the problem, is that folks in Madison have been just saying, hey, here's your rural outreach plan, whether you're in, you know, Vilas or Washera or Green County and assuming that it's the same everywhere.

It's

not.

We have to trust and listen to our local leaders to tell us what

makes the most sense.

And our approach as a Democratic Party has to be to go, OK, what do you need to execute?

How can we support you so you can do the best job of that plan as possible?

And that's what we'll do when I'm chair.

And correct me if I'm wrong, Joe, but it seems to me before Ben Wickler came around.

Democrats kind of had this attitude about, well, I'm not going to go to District X because it's impossible and I'm never going to get inroads there.

So I'm just going to concentrate my time and my efforts in areas where I'm more likely to get a foothold.

That's a mistake.

And Ben really kind of changed that.

It's like we need to be talking to everybody.

Yeah.

Listen, this has been an ongoing debate within the Democratic Party for as long as I've been an adult.

I think all the way back to Howard Dean and the famous 50 state strategy.

And you know, that was the 2003, four, five era.

And listen, different folks have different perspectives.

Some people say you only spend and you only recruit candidates in the districts you think you can win.

And I don't think that philosophy is.

worth as much as it used to be.

That's the old playbook.

The new playbook is you have to run everywhere.

You have to field candidates that are willing to do the work.

You have to have candidates that reflect the districts they're trying to represent.

And when we do that, when we have a 132 districts strategy across Wisconsin, 33 Senate candidates and 99 Assembly candidates,

we do better overall and we do better at the local level because we will have candidates who are saying it with their chest, who are unafraid to be Democrats and understand we don't have anything to be embarrassed about as we fight back against Trump, as we resist this administration and as we build political power next year and beyond so that we can actually do things to clean up this mess and get to a place where the economy actually does work for working people again.

That's the only way through this is through it.

So

132 district strategy.

Let's go.

I think also something that really helps the case for that is once again the election of Susan Crawford being such a unanimous resounding yes and seeing that shift in those maps as well as getting fair maps.

Seeing people run for office that

five years ago, you're like, you're going to run for that office?

That's insanity.

But they're running hard.

They may have lost, but they don't lose by much or they win.

So I feel like the past couple of years has really given your way of thinking momentum on how to and give excitement to people who thought, well, there's no chance.

There's no chance.

It's really great to listen to and to hear you talk about this stuff.

Yeah, these are fights worth fighting.

And you know, from Susan Crawford to the new mayor and lacrosse to the pickups and school boards and town boards.

April was very good.

And what we need to do is make sure that 2026 is even better.

We've got another court race coming up.

And I want to remind folks, yes, the Susan Crawford win locked in control for progressives of the state Supreme Court until 2028 until August of 2028.

And I say that.

to warn that there is a presidential election in November of 2028.

And we do not yet have 100% guarantee that that control of the court won't flip back and that perhaps Big Lie 3.0 would be at real risk.

So next April, we're going to gear up and we're going to do it all over again to get Judge Rebecca Bradley

off the bench and ensure that there are pro-democracy judges who understand that the will of the people is the law of the land on the court, in the majority, through the presidential election of 2028.

That's

a really good point, Joe.

I think a lot of people, after Judge Crawford was placed on the Supreme Court, kind of took a big breath and go, well, that's done.

You know, now we don't have to worry about it anymore, and that's not true.

The work continues.

Yes.

We're going to continue our conversation with Joseph Peckie.

He is in the running to chair the Wisconsin Democratic Party.

We'll continue this question of this conversation on the other side.

I want to hear what you heard from people when you were putting on 1200 miles over the weekend.

Joseph Peckie is our guest.

Stay close.

You're listening to Matt Nair on air.

This is the Civic Media Radio Network.

We'll be right

back.

Good morning.

Welcome back to Matt Nair on air.

Jane Matt Nair, Greg Bach, Calviente on the board, coming to you from our studio here at Radio Park in Racine.

You can always join us.

Call or text the number is the same 855-752-4842.

Leave a comment if you're watching on the live stream on Facebook, YouTube and what used to be Twitter after the 10 o'clock news.

Will Westmoreland is going to be back.

He's got a channel on YouTube.

I encourage you to check it out.

Call the back 40.

He's a farmer in southwestern Missouri and we had him on a couple of months ago when the.

News about the Trump tariffs were first coming through, and he had reached out to a young farmer who did a TikTok and opened up a dialogue.

And Will is a blue dot in a very red area.

So we wanted to have a little update on what Will is hearing from his fellow farmers in southwestern Missouri.

Joseph Ecke is here right now.

He is in the running to head the Wisconsin Democratic Party.

Did that spur something in you than what I just mentioned?

It reminded me of the thing I heard a couple times this weekend, which is the way to refer to those communities, those blue dots, is blueberries in tomato soup.

Oh my goodness, I'd still eat those blueberries.

Blueberries in

tomato soup, that's hilarious.

Wow.

When you were traveling over the weekend, what were some of the concerns, Joe?

What are you hearing from folks who are on the ground?

Yeah, I mean, listen, people are afraid.

They are scared about what is happening to this country.

They're deeply concerned.

They see the moves of this administration, and it is increasingly harder and harder not to use words like authoritarian.

But that's the reality.

And so, you know, within the confines of the Democratic Party conventions and caucuses and the conversations that we've had,

there's more conversation about where we go as a party than there is on the shared horror at what this administration is doing, whether that's deporting four-year-old U.S.

citizens with cancer or marching into a courthouse to arrest a judge before a grand jury has even suggested that there's probable cause.

I'm no lawyer, I'm sure there's legal stuff there.

People are concerned, and they should be, and they want to know how to fight back.

And what I'm hearing about the Democratic Party is that multiple things are true at the same time.

The first is that Ben Wickler has been a really, really good chair, that he has the state party in the strongest position it's been in a very long

time.

And at the same time,

It is true that we need to get a lot better and do a lot more and function even more effectively.

And when you look at the problem that way, you understand maybe it's time to shake things up a little bit.

Maybe if losing to the worst person in America for two out of the last three presidential elections isn't cause enough for Democrats to say, you know what, there are no sacred cows.

Nothing is off limits.

And we are going to do away with this notion that what we've always done it this way is an acceptable answer to anything we're doing when it comes to how we communicate and how we message.

And frankly, with how we organize and support our infrastructure, there's a lot of it that is working.

But not all of it.

And we can be better.

And what I'm hearing is a real appetite among people within the Democratic Party to do things differently because what we've been doing

is not good enough.

I like it, too, and I describe it this way to folks within the party.

You guys know this, not everybody does.

I've spent the last seven years coaching high school football.

We don't talk about meeting the standard.

We talk about setting the standard.

And we don't skip watching film and looking for areas to improve after we win a game on Friday night.

We still lock in and look at the film and figure out where we can improve.

And if, and to any Democrat who thinks we don't have room for improvement, that we don't have things we can do better, even in the midst of it, you know, or after a 10 point victory for Susan Crawford, I'm sorry, that's not the philosophy you're going to get with me.

And maybe I'm not the guy for you.

And that's okay.

But that's my approach to all things, and we need, I believe, that kind of approach right now.

Well, just look at how the Democratic Party polls.

The numbers are terrible.

The numbers are terrible.

We have a brand problem.

Yes, we

do.

And attacking sacred cows kind of leads me to a question that we have on the live stream here.

Jake from Madison, a question that matters to me, should Chuck Schumer be fired as dem leader in the Senate?

That is up to folks like Senator Baldwin.

She gets the vote on it.

Here's what I will say and here's what I think it speaks to.

It is time for a new generation of leadership up and down and across the Democratic Party.

When that happens, how that happens, who those people are is not, I believe, the role of the Democratic Party Chair of Wisconsin.

And so what I heard is frustration about leaders like Senator Schumer.

I hear it, I see it, and if you, Jake and Madison, and a thousand of your friends feel strongly about it, my advice to you is use your voice, right?

Let Senator Baldwin know that that's what you think.

She's not gonna hang up on you, right?

Her office takes those calls, they listen, and that is what we need to understand is we all have power and agency in this, and it doesn't mean that we...

We draw bright lines and say, well, if the Democratic Party doesn't fire Chuck Schumer in the next 18 months, I refuse to vote against an authoritarian regime in 2026.

That's not helpful either.

But use your voice.

And what I'm offering is a new perspective and a new style of leadership than I think what we've had and what my competitors offer.

Real quickly, we only have about a minute, Joe.

What is the process to elect the new wisdoms chair who votes on it?

Can everyday people influence it?

You have to be in the party.

You have to be a dues-paying member with stems.org $25 a year.

You have to be a delegate to the convention.

You can do that at Wisdoms.org and then talk to your county party chair.

And then you have to be there on June 15th to learn more.

Go to JosephPeki.com.

Sign up.

We'll make sure you know how to participate.

We will get

your link in our show notes, JosephPeki.com.

Thank you so very much, my friend.

Really appreciate it.

Be careful on the roads.

Yes.

News is coming up next.

Stay with us.

This is Matt Nair on air on the Civic Media Radio Network.

Good morning and welcome, welcome to Matt and Air on Air.

There we go, Jane Matt and Air.

Greg Buck and Calvin Butenoff coming to you live from our studio here at Radio Park in Racine.

You can always join us.

You can call.

You can text.

The number is the same.

855-752-4842.

Leave a comment if you're watching on the live stream or my camera is finally working.

on Facebook, YouTube, and what used to be Twitter.

He joined us a couple of months ago.

He has a channel on YouTube called The Back 40.

I highly encourage you to check it out.

A farmer from Southwestern Missouri, Will Westmoreland is back.

Good morning, Will.

Thank you so much for being here.

How are you?

It's great to be here.

Hey, Jane.

Hey, team.

I gotta tell you, this is groundbreaking for me.

This is

my first repeat visit on a podcast.

We did

it.

We did it, folks.

Hey, not just a podcast, but a live radio show, Will.

That's right.

Welcome, welcome.

I'm

excited.

And we're delighted to have you back.

I thought our conversation last time, which by the way, you can still find in our archives if you would like to hear our first conversation with Will.

But you really went viral a couple of months ago, Will, when you had responded to a young farmer who had put on a TikTok.

who was very concerned he had invested some money under the Biden administration into improvements for his farm and then the Trump administration came in and froze all those payments.

So you responded to him and that just really kind of exploded.

I'm curious what has happened since we talked to you last.

Well, so Skyler Holden was the farmer out of Jefferson County, I think it is.

Anyway, up close to St.

Louis.

And yeah, Jane, what he had done is he had invested in farm improvements for rotational grazing by planting some warm weather grass seeds and putting up fencing and this type of thing.

And then the government had come in and put a hold on that.

Now, what's happened since then, gosh, when we started this, I just thought, I hope she has a two hour radio show because it's gonna take that long to...

We got plenty of time.

OK, so those payments are still going out.

They did release those payments.

And Schuyler was one of the first people to they were very strategic.

Let's just put it that way and how they distributed the dollars.

There's no doubt that the people that were the loudest on social media got their checks first.

And Schuyler was one of those.

So Skyler is still on his personal journey.

I got to be honest with you.

Once he got his money, a lot of the angst dried up.

Oh, I bet.

Yeah.

You know, his concern with this administration, et cetera.

But, you know, I mean, and I'm not trying to be cavalier about this, but, you know, with this tariff situation, we're winning some and we're losing some in terms of farmers.

And for every one Skyler that goes back after they've kind of had an epiphany.

There are, you know, three or four that aren't going back.

They realize this is a long-term battle for rural America, and they're sticking to their guns on pushing back against these policies.

That's good news.

We got to take it where we can get it.

Yep, absolutely.

Josh Hawley, you're very own.

Senator, I'm Missouri Senator Josh Hawley is applauding.

This is from earlier this month on Fox two, is applauding Donald Trump's sweeping plan for new tariffs, calling it a win for American workers.

and urging continued protection for farmers and manufacturers.

So if I take what you're saying, well, not all farmers are like, this is a great thing because we have had discussions with Wisconsin farmers as well and in particular, soybean growers.

And the last

time this

happened under the Trump administration.

And yes, he cut the farmers a big check because they were taking such a hit on this.

But a lot of those markets never came back.

That's right.

That's right.

So I'd be remiss if I didn't go on the record to say that the closest Josh Holley's ever come to a farm is when he goes up to the state fair every year and puts on his Dustus Cowboy boots off and his Wrangler jeans and goes and gets the crease put in him at the laundry mat and then goes to the state fair.

Nice.

Take it with a grain of salt.

But yeah, to your point, the uncertainty is just collapsing in on itself.

So you're going to be really hard pressed to find a farmer that says the tariffs are a good idea.

The president's most ardent supporters in agriculture, the closest they'll come is they're still saying, well, I'm gonna trust him that he knows what he's doing.

So even though these tariffs are really bad and we're struggling, I'm gonna give him the benefit of the doubt that in the long run, this is going to pay off.

But Jane, that's a very, very small number of farmers that still believe that way.

If you talk to, I was just speaking to a friend of mine who works for us.

a really large agricultural planning organization, PLA NNING.

And she's based in North Dakota.

And she was just talking today about all of the farmers that live around here, her that do row cropping are struggling with what to do.

They're trying to plant crops that are gonna get the most crop insurance because they don't know if there's gonna be profitability in harvesting what they normally do.

Number two.

Right now, as the markets were playing out this morning, there's still not a single crop that coming out of the ground pays for itself.

So farmers are banking on these subsidies that may or may not come.

We may get some subsidies this year because that money had already been set aside by Congress, but the big message coming out of the USDA is maybe you'll get 85% of what you were expecting.

and don't plan on anything going forward, we're going to cut all of that.

How are, I mean, let me ask a very elementary question as I am not a farmer and my wranglers are quite crisp as well.

How do how do farmers survive and go on then it means I I guess the bigger question is do you know any farmers who are looking to five years down the road saying I think I know I have to shut this down because it will not be sustainable I mean it seems like they're giving them just a future of you're done and Sorry, and hopefully the insurance pays off and see you later

Yeah, there are quite a few farmers that will tell you that if things keep going the way they go they're going now and that they're expected to go That their farms are in danger now.

You can't be a farmer without being hopeful So I think that there are still a lot of farmers out there that are hoping At some point, you know, they're senator their congressperson in their state Somebody's gonna set up, you know and stand up and at least at a minimum

They're going to get the bailout subsidies that they need, maybe just to keep the farm going.

There won't be any profitability in that.

They may take a hit.

It may be really bad.

But can we just survive until the end of this administration so that when things, quote unquote, get back to normal, we'll be OK?

I think that's the key mentality out there right now.

But absolutely, I've talked to all kinds of farmers that have said,

I'm looking down the road and if things don't change at all and we don't get subsidies and these programs don't pay out, it's going to be really bad.

And their fear is of course consolidation, right?

We've already seen that in that row crop, you know, farming is getting bigger and bigger and bigger.

And you've got really powerful, large corporate ag interest that control, you know, everything from what gets planted to what gets sold and how.

And we're even starting to see the first remnants of that now in beef as well.

because of, you know, China's recent actions on beef.

And, and yeah, Jane, to your point, like before the, the first Trump administration, uh, Brazil sold China 13% of their row crops.

That's higher even now than when I came on the last, last time I told you it was at 43, in some cases is at 48 now.

And to your point, that's never going to come back.

Right.

Where are we going to find those markets?

You

know,

I'm sorry, I went off on a little bit.

No, no, no, that's fine.

It's bad, guys.

It's really bad.

Well, and I guess, well, that's where I don't understand with that portion who are still, well, it's bad.

And this seems like a bad decision, but I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt.

At some point, don't you run out of those benefits?

Yeah, you will about harvest time.

Not saying that, you know, to be funny, but.

Yeah, you will about harvest time because right now, like I said, corn seems to be the one thing for whatever reason.

Maybe it's the subsidies to create more ethanol.

Corn seems to be the one thing that everybody's running to right now because it looks like not that it's going to be profitable at the harvest, but it's going to have the highest level of subsidy through the crop insurance program, et cetera.

So now we've got farmers out there that are growing food for the United States and the rest of the world.

that are not making those decisions purely based on supply and demand, but they're making them based on how much is the insurance going to pay off in the end.

And

that's just not where we want to be.

You know,

I have to imagine if you, if you spend a good amount of your life, I don't know, raising cows on a dairy farm to just switch to corn, that can't be the easiest and might I say inexpensive transition to make.

Yeah, and it's not if you haven't planned ahead for it, but the bigger thing even that's happening out there is that some row crop farmers are starting to incorporate beef into raising cattle into their operation because our cattle herds are at a 70 year low and that's kept prices high.

So you've had some row crop farmers that have been

you know, putting in those grasses, maybe where they would have planted a row crop before so that they can incorporate cattle into the overall model.

But the problem with that is, is now he's making bad decisions that are impacting cattle.

The Chinese just said, we're not going to buy $1.6 billion worth of American beef.

And Jane, to your earlier point, just like they did with row crops, Australia immediately stepped in and said, hey,

We've got all the beef you need.

And they're selling that.

They replaced that market overnight.

So it's just happening across the board.

So everywhere the farmers are going to escape this or trying to change their plan, it's just that whack-a-mole from the administration with bad policy.

If you're just joining us, Will Westmoreland is our guest.

He's the executive director of the Back 40 on YouTube.

I highly encourage you to check out the Back 40.

You'll learn a lot and it's always, but again, it's, I didn't grow up a farmer.

I grew up in a small town and I think it's important we understand how these areas, especially the people who are feeding us and what it is that they're dealing with.

I'm curious, Will, now when we slide over a little bit to the immigration issue, what would it mean for farmers in your area if every immigrant was pulled off of the working farms?

Would that be catastrophic or not?

It would be across the country where I live.

We're kind of beef oriented where I grew up in like the second largest beef producing county in Missouri.

And a lot of people don't know this, but Missouri is usually in the top three or four in regard to beef production.

And a lot of that is family run.

Beef seems to be the one area as of right now, like I said earlier, that hasn't gone into this.

you know, a horizontal growth pattern where big corporations are running everything.

Now, once that beef leaves the farm, yes, it's all corporate.

Anyway, to your point, but everywhere else in the country, yeah, it's a huge issue.

So I've got family that owns a really large farm in Imperial Valley, California.

We experienced this during COVID where we had crops rotting in the field because a lot of our migrant workers had gone back to their country of origination.

70% of the workers in agriculture are migrant workers and 50% are undocumented.

So when the Trump administration did these raids early on, like in the San Joaquin Valley, etc.

that led to a 75% reduction in attendance for people showing up on the farm.

So the brief answer to your question is, yes, where immigrant labor is a big part of the agricultural picture, it's been devastating.

With attendance rates as low as 75%, crops rotting in the field, dairy milk not getting pumped, all kinds of things

like that.

And what I'm taking from the administration apparently is that all of the federal workers that they have been firing, I guess they should just be coming to work in the fields now because

Where is this workforce going to come from?

Where

are these replacement workers going

to come from?

That's our biggest fear at the back 40 is that our 400 largest agricultural counties in this country are shrinking.

Hospitals are going away.

Schools are consolidating.

Businesses are going away.

The population overall is going away.

Farmers are aging out.

So that's our big concern.

Like we're not talking about someday rural America dying.

It's happening right in front of us.

And if we don't jump in now to fix the problem, it's going to be gone.

And the people working those farms to your point are going to be the people that used to own them before corporations bought them out.

And that's something that I want to talk about as well.

Is the the corporatization of farming in the United States.

We're going to continue our conversation with Will Westmoreland.

Check out the back 40.

That's his channel on YouTube.

You are listening to Matt Nair on air.

Stay close.

This is the Civic Media Radio Network.

We'll be right back.

Good morning and welcome back to Matt Nair on air.

Jane Matt Nair, Greg Bach and our resident young person Calvin on the board.

Coming to you from our studio at Radio Park in Racine where you can always join us, call or text the number is the same.

855-752-4842.

You can leave a comment as well.

If you're watching on the live stream on Facebook, YouTube and what used to be Twitter.

Coming up after the 1030 news, it is a segment that has turned into

Audio Sorbet.

We like to take a little breath, a little cleansing for your ears away from all the politics and all the other all the other exhausting things.

And we just try and lighten things up a little bit for the last half hour of the show.

So we're going to talk about the latest inductees into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

And everyone has one band.

Their ticked off isn't in there yet.

Oh, yes.

So we want to hear the band that you think is deserving.

and is still waiting to get into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

And then we'll wrap up the show as we always do with this.

Shouldn't be a thing.

Today it is the Climb Every Mountain edition.

So stay tuned for that.

Right now though, our guest is the executive director of the Back 40 that is his channel on YouTube.

Will Westmoreland is here.

He's a farmer in southwestern Missouri.

And I'm so glad to have you back, Bill.

Will, just to give us a little bit of an update from the last time you were on.

The last time you were on, we were talking about the corporatization of farming.

And under the first Trump administration, Sonny Perdue was the head of agriculture.

And I remember this like it was yesterday when he told farmers, essentially, go big or go home.

So if you can't grow, if you can't continue to grow, we don't care if you go out of business.

And that does still seem to be

The same attitude now under Trump too.

Yeah, you know, he was actually standing right there near you in Wisconsin when he made those comments.

And it was a dairy farmer that asked the question and that was, hey, consolidation is just killing us.

I mean, the big, you know, corporate dairy farms are the ones that have the most amount of security through subsidies and listed off these other things.

And Sonny said, well, this is the United States of America.

You either go big or you go out.

And when the president was asked to clarify those comments a few weeks later, you know, he didn't say, no, son, he's wrong.

We need to protect the small farmer and rancher and their policies kind of reflect that mentality.

And Jane, you know, we didn't get to dig into this a lot the last time because we had that crisis of, you know, payments not going out.

But corporatization is a big issue because now it's in every single level of agriculture.

So you've got giant corporate ag that controls the seed market.

You've got giant corporate ag that controls pesticides, fertilizers, fungicides, and now it's crept into farmland.

So the USDA, they look every year and they talk about how much farmland is owned and operated by family farmers.

But the problem is they measure that by, you know, does a family own the land?

So they put out this report that says 95% of all US farms in 2022 are family owned and operated, but then

What that doesn't reflect is, yes, they're owned by a family, but not a family of farmers.

So 40% of the farmland out there is owned by families, but it's not farmed by them.

It's corporately owned by families, and they rent the land out to other farmers or to other corporations.

So it's deceiving.

It's deceiving because you think, well, 95% are still small farms and ranches.

No, no, no, no, no.

That just means they're family owned.

And you've got a lot of, and in some places like Iowa, not too far from you guys.

Well, closer to you, it's as high as 50%.

So it really climbs up there, like half the land.

Yes, it's owned by a family, but it's still put to corporate use.

And then you've got these big companies like Naveen and Acre Trader and Manulife.

They're coming in and they're buying up large swaths of all kinds of land not not only land to the plant row crops on but you know land where we raise cattle I'll give you guys a quick example There's 180 acres that went on the market down in Oklahoma and there was an article that you had three farmers that went to their local banks and said Will you give us the backing the loan that we need to buy this land and because of the market values there their banks said yeah, you can go up to one million one point two million for this

this 180 acres.

You had a corporate ag investor that came in and bought it for over four million.

And at that number, there's just no way if a farmer wants to make a profit during his lifetime or even his kid's lifetime that they can make that math work.

Well, a corporation can because they're buying it for 100 years from now, 150 years from now.

You know, when will it pay off?

And so you've got it at every level, even in the processing of food.

I mean,

You guys read the stories about companies like Tyson, et cetera.

They not only tell their farmers that are working for them what they can raise, but how much of it to raise.

And that's another big problem that we've got right now is we've got this siloed production owned by corporate ag where the market isn't determining what should be raised and sold.

But profitability at these companies is determining that.

And it's leading to less diversity in the marketplace and not more.

But their profits are going up.

But the corporate profits are growing up.

And please don't think this isn't happening in Wisconsin.

There is.

an expansion of a dairy operation in northwestern Wisconsin that I have been looking into.

And it is owned by a family will, which is interesting that you said that.

But when I looked a little bit further about who is funding this expansion, there's a hedge fund guy from Louisiana who is kicking in the vast majority of the money for this.

So as you said, the family still technically owns it, but they're getting funding from all kinds of outsourced and outstate interests.

Yeah, they've made the transition from a family farm to an investment farm and you know The the the simple fact is is that that's what the system encourages They want you to get bigger and bigger and bigger and then eventually your corp And I'm not talking about the corporatization like where will decides to do everything under an LLC so that he's got liability coverage that kind of thing I'm just talking about mass corporatization where the entire production silo is owned by two or three or four different big companies

Yeah, that's that's not the way we want to go.

Will Westmoreland, check him out on YouTube.

His channel is called The Back 40.

We would love to have you back, Will.

Lots and lots more to talk about.

Thank you so very much for your time.

Really appreciate it.

You bet.

Have a great day, guys.

You as well.

News coming up next.

Stay with us.

You're listening to Matt Nair on air on the vast statewide, countrywide.

You can pick us up all around the world if you have the app.

The Civic Media Radio Network will be right back.

Good

morning and welcome to Matt and Air on Air, Jane Matt and Air, Greg Bach and Kelly Teenie on the board.

Coming to you from our studio at Radio Park in Racine where you can join a scholar text.

at 855-752-4842.

Leave a comment if you're watching on the live stream on Facebook, YouTube.

And what used to be Twitter coming up in about 15 minutes will wrap up the show as we always do, with this shouldn't be a thing.

Today it's the Climb Every Mountain Edition twice.

If you ever have a thing you think should not be, send it in to Greg and me at jamesaysatcivicmedia.us.

J-A-N-E-S-A-Y-S, Jane says at civicmedia.us.

Right now, though, it is time for a little audio sorbet, as we like to say.

Lighten things up for a little bit so we can all take a breath away from the news.

Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

It's always controversial.

There's always someone who's not happy.

Yes.

And the latest list of the induct

These is out, but we wanted to know who do you think should be in the rock and roll Hall of Fame?

Who is not in it yet?

Yeah,

who do you think is deserving?

Do they get a plaque or something?

They get in the trophy.

Oh, they get a trophy.

Yeah, it's a nice trophy to who said who is deserving in the rock and roll Hall of Fame trophy who hasn't gotten one yet eight five five seven five two

4842, I have the whole list of previous inductees in front of me.

Previous?

Whoa.

Yeah, there's a lot of them, too.

But who do you think should be in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame?

Who is not there yet?

855-752-4842.

Greg Bach just bursting over here.

Who's not in there?

Who you want in

there?

Let me start with this.

Because I'm a diplomatic person and I believe in democracy for all sure Everyone who is in the class this year.

I think are deserving I think everyone in the class this year are amazing contributors in fact Two of them actually three of them.

I'm surprised it took till 2025 to get in to me chubby checker He's one of those guys.

He was like part of like the

He sold like 200 million records.

He's

one of the twist and was it the early days of rock and roll?

Exactly.

He's one of those.

Like he should have been back in the nineties or late eighties when they first started.

That's surprising to me.

Bad company.

Not that surprising.

The rock and roll hall of fame has kind of been mean to seventies.

What would be considered stadium rock bands?

That's not

fair.

I

do totally agree with you.

I mean, when, if you want to see something amazing, watch Jan Wenner who runs Rolling Stone and owns this.

property announced that Rush is finally in.

It's a minute and a half ovation because they had been like the most shunned band.

Rush just didn't get in until recently and people were angry about it.

But, and Joe Cocker, Joe Cocker should have been decades ago.

Absolutely.

So I'm happy.

And Cindy Lauper, awesome.

Well, let's go through the 13 inductees.

We've got Cindy Lauper this year, who I adore.

Yes.

Outcast.

Yes.

Warren Zevon.

Yes.

Bad Company, Chubby Checker, Joe Cocker, Soundgarden, White Stripes.

Yeah.

Those are good names.

Those are good names.

Yeah.

And it's funny too, because I believe that the, I think it's still that you have to be, to be eligible.

It has to be 25 years since your debut record.

So the idea that.

The white stripes and sound garden and outcast.

You're like her are just gonna go to watch the rock and roll hall of fame.

I love the rap music But there was one in the list for consideration this year that did not get in even though They received more votes from the fans than any other artist on this list.

Oh, wow, and that was fish Fish has been around since 1980.

They reached their first record in 83.

I did

not

know they had been around that long.

They released their first record in the early 80s

Uh, same for band members since,

uh, that's amazing.

Yeah.

They have, and here's the thing is like, I don't know what the, what the deciding process is because if you're going to go by album sales, I did some research and fish sold about eight million records.

So they've never relied on album sales.

They're not an album sales ban, but I also looked at the white stripes, same amount of records.

Fish has sold 13.3 million tickets over the past from 1980 to 2022.

That's how they play all the time.

And they've played, guess how many times they've played Madison Square Garden?

12.

No.

Higher.

Yeah.

30.

Nope.

Higher than that.

Higher than that.

80.

Seven.

87 times.

Wow.

So

for me, like, I get it.

I love, fish is one of my favorite bands, Trayna Sazio, the guitar player is my favorite guitar player on earth.

I love no one more than him.

I don't understand from a objective point of view why they didn't make it.

What is the voting process?

And to me, all of the groups that they brought in have a wide spectrum of art.

From rock and roll, to

pop, to rap, to hard rock.

So to me, I don't understand why fish did not make it in.

And I know they'll make it in someday.

Because actually one of their most iconic, like,

set pieces has been in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame for decades.

So I am a little bummed out that they are not part of this.

See, I didn't get angry.

I'm not mad.

I'm

disappointed.

He's very disappointed in the people who voted.

855-752-4842.

Who should be in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame that isn't yet?

855-752-4842.

Roger from Stevens Point.

Three Dog Night.

Johnny Rivers.

And Herman, Herman's Hermits.

None of those are in there.

And I have, I have fond memories of the Herman's Hermits just because they were what my sisters were listening to.

Yeah, yeah.

And what I think of hardcore, you know, they were like the sweet side of rock and roll, right?

They were the nice boy you'd bring over and introduce to your mom.

Are the Beatles just

too dangerous for

you?

No, but the Stones would have been.

Oh, yeah.

Yes.

Right.

Oh, no, no.

Yeah,

I think I mean, completely different things.

You have the Hermans Hermits.

in the far end of the sweet scale.

The Beals are right there.

Kind of

in the middle.

They're a little raunchy.

They're a little sassy.

And they went more or so that way.

But the

Rolling Stones, that's the band that your daughter's going to sneak out of the house to go see.

Exactly.

She's not going to introduce them to you.

No.

We got a comment from Steve in Milwaukee saying, the White Stripes is surprising.

They are much newer.

Actually, they're not.

They came out their first record in 1999.

They're what's called a first ballot induction.

They

got

through

on the first time.