July 6th, 2024. If it's seven o'clock on Saturday morning, it's time for this week
in Waukeshaw. I'm your host Don Brown coming to live and local from the office of former
Alderman Don Paul Brown here in the Waukesh Radio Studios in downtown. I'm joined by the
Mighty Max Martins on the board, my faithful partner in crime, and we are coming to you live
and local, as I mentioned, and we are right around the corner from Theodore Yalman's Park
where we are proud to honor our suffragette heritage here in the Shaw. And it's going to
be a very full show today, as I always try to do, but in particular, my guest is former
ninth district alder and county supervisor, Kathleen Cummings, who most people in Waukeshaw
would know. It served this city with dignity and integrity for 23 years, and the county
for 25 years, the first woman to hold both seats simultaneously. And of course, we unfortunately
know her better as someone that faced a 30-month ordeal fighting criminal charges, seven
counts of election fraud, because she owned two homes, one in her district and one just
a few houses outside of the district. And was acquitted of all charges on May 7th.
But obviously, there is a tarnish reputation. There is over $85,000 in legal fees. And
we're honored to have her, the first media outlet to have her as a guest, since the acquittal
to tell her story. And what I call the first leg of the redemption tour or the vindication
tour. Kathleen, welcome. How are you? Good morning, Don. I'm good. Thank you.
Good, good. And we're honored to have you here, a former colleague and a very dear friend.
And we'll also be talking about a lot of local news, including our good friend, Earl Ingram,
who's here in studio. He is doing a live interview with CNN that takes place any minute regarding
his, he did a live interview with President Joe Biden that aired on July 5th. Or no, it was
maybe the day before, but we aired it on July 4th, and both hours of Earl's show and now CNN wants
to talk to him about that interview. And that should be interesting. Earl's been very outspoken
about his concerns for the president's health since that debate in late June. In Earl,
it also advocated that maybe the president stepped down and maybe somebody else
take his place in this upcoming election. And so I believe the purpose of this interview was
CNN is to see Earl's perspectives on how he felt the president performed in the interview and
what he, what he feels now. And we're honored that Earl was selected by the White House. And
so and obviously we congratulate him on that recognition. So that is a big deal.
We're going to talk about highlights of the force and the Shah. And we some upcoming performances.
We're going to talk about what happened. I mentioned on last week's show about the departure
of Flip and Fabulous on Main Street. Now moving to Burlington after some bullying from fellow
business neighbors. I'm also going to touch a little bit on the 25th anniversary of the tragedy
at what was then called Miller Park involving three iron workers who lost their lives.
And what's going on next weekend to honor their memories. And then we have the R&C coming up.
And what that impact will be on some local business. I believe one Waka Shah business or one
one business has a lot of presence in Waka Shah that will be benefiting from that. And then
in the second hour, James sent out a host of amicus will be coming in early to appear on this
show and speak about some of the legal issues regarding Kathleen's case. And as well as what some
recourses could be in the aftermath of her again, vindication, her acquittal on all charges.
So a lot to cover here. And of course, we'll be getting two farmers market reports in the second
hour. I don't know which member of our civic media team will be leading that effort. But it is
a beautiful day. And I'm sure it'll be a beautiful farmers market day. So we're really glad
everyone's listening in. And so I want to start from my own perspective here with what happened
to Kathleen Cummings. While we were both on the council, it was an early September of 2021
that I and my fellow alders received an email from Mayor Sean Riley that had a letter attached
from Kathleen's attorney telling us that she'd be taking an indefinite leave of absence for
health reasons. I don't know. I don't remember the exact verbiage, but that was the extent of it.
And at the time was was very much a mystery knowing how active Kathleen has been in city and
in public life. And then in the ensuing weeks, rumors had circulated about the police
rating her home, both of her homes. Some talk about possible election fraud,
not living at her primary address in her district. And then in October, I would learn that
my district, the only contiguous of all 15 districts in my opinion, was split in half. And
then I would be forced to exile my seat. And that again, I'm the host of this show. I'm a media
so I, and that's another reason Jim Santel will be here in the second hours. I'll be recusing
myself from that discussion. But many of Kathleen's closest supporters had felt that that
what had happened to both of us at that time was was tied together that there was an agenda. And
again, I just don't want to comment further on that. But was regard to Kathleen, my good friend,
though, I would say a few weeks after I learned of my future plans.
Kathleen had made an appearance at her first council meeting in a couple of months anyway.
And then days after that, it might have been the very next day. She was arrested,
booked in a very public showing. I think there was mug shots and everything. And there's just a very
really difficult time for her. And anybody close to her, that new Kathleen Cummings and know that
you know, I don't think she's ever even had a parking ticket in her life. She's always
and as a public server. Oh, two parking tickets. Thank you, Kathleen. So, so Kathleen,
the floor is yours. And you don't want to, I guess one is like, how do you feel now after 30
months and over 85,000 hours of legal fee? Like, how do you feel now that like the case is over?
I'm grateful. I am just grateful. I'm grateful to the citizens that prayed for me. I'm
grateful to all those who supported me. And I'm grateful to my attorney. I am grateful and
and without that support, without God in my life, I would not have survived.
Thank you for sharing. And a couple other notes on this too was, Kathleen has been
consulting with legal advisor. She hasn't officially retained an attorney to
see what's next for her. But when asked about doing this show this morning,
her legal advisor said, said, tell your story. Do not pull any punches because everything's public.
So, and again, prior to this, the trial taking place in the spring of this year,
again, what was painted in the media was not a very good, didn't look very good for Kathleen.
And what was also rather ironic was six, six months earlier, a colleague of ours on the council,
Aaron Perry was doing really well. He's reinvented himself, now living in Minnesota with his family
and wishing him well. But he was involved in some criminal matters and the issue of his multiple
residences had become rather public to the extent that his constituents had formed a petition.
And Aaron had voluntarily stepped down. But in my conversations with members of the city's legal
department about what the council's recourse was or how the council should behave, I was told that
the standard of residency is very difficult to prove that really all you need is a mortgage,
a lease, a phone bill, a driver's license, utility bills, anything.
If you if you've established that, it's very difficult to prove to disprove your residency and
that we don't observe how people live. If they have, if they decide to use their utilities or not,
if they live in a second home, if they occupy a second home for different reasons or members of
their family occupy a second home, that one, it's really nobody's business. And also this
member of the legal department had said that while we do have an issue with other alders owning more
than one property in this city. And I think right away with my alderman now, Eric Payne, who probably
spends half his year as his family's cabin up north, you know, does that disqualify him because he
spends, doesn't spend the whole 12 months in his district. You know, you can make so many cases like
that. But the fact that Kathleen was dragged through the mud for however many months is raises
some very serious questions. Kathy, go ahead. 30 months. 30 months. How many months did I say?
Three, I'm sorry. 30 months. 30 months. Right. 30 months. Yes. So, yes. What, what amazes me through
this whole process is that no one asked me, not Kevin. You're referring to Kevin Leigh in
reform. Kevin Leigh, not the mayor, Sean Riley, not Brian. Nobody asked Brian running city attorney.
Right. Exactly. If I had, it was not a secret. We own two homes. My constituents knew I don't do
homes. And we own two homes for the precise purpose of creating a group home from my severely
autistic son, who was at that time 34 years old, so that it's when we were ready, we could
have a life with him, but he could have a life by himself. The homes are nine homes apart,
exactly nine. And we had the opportunity at some point in 2012 to purchase my mother-in-laws home
for $150,000 on 1143 Downey. Now, anyone familiar with the prices of homes in
Waukesha, I couldn't even probably get a lot for that amount of money. And so my husband and I
went and got alone so that we could then pay his two brothers and ultimately the house cost us
$100,000, because 50 was his inheritance from his dad. And the question would be, why wouldn't
any person that was looking to have a group home or a future for their disabled son not look at that?
You would have to look at that. And we had looked at other properties over the years,
but this seemed to be a really good fit. They were both homes were of a ranch nature.
I did talk to the housing authority director at one point, and he thought maybe one house was
better than the other, but we had not come to any specific reason. We're going to continue
this conversation with the vindicated former legislator Kathleen Cummings here in this week
and Waukesha plus some recent and fire away for the July reflections and much more here in this
week and Waukesha and W-E-K-540-M-101-1 of M-The-Shaw. And don't forget to subscribe to the channel.
And why the world is waiting for the sunrise in my heart is calling you.
We are not waiting for the sunrise here in this week Waukesha. The sun is out and it's beautiful
on this lovely Saturday morning here in the shaw. Of course, you're listening to Waukesha's favorite
sunless Paul with Mary Ford and the world is waiting for the sunrise. Did you heard that sign
before Kathleen Cummings? No. Oh, well, yeah. There's a really great, really great guitar in that
and towards the end of the segment, Max will be putting it back on for everyone to enjoy, but
I'm expanding my horizons here on this show. You sure are, yeah. So, but did you have a nice
fourth of July? I had a quiet one. Thank you. Okay, that's good too, but mine was fun in many ways.
We got to go to the fireworks on the 3rd of July over at Lowell Park and the year before we
heard our friends backyard in the neighborhood watching in that was fun, but this is our first
time that my wife and I really got to dig in and walk through and food truck was well organized.
We got a couple burgers. The beer trucks were great. We had some beers from Steel Tank Brewery in
O'Connellock, but Dave Barron has grew up in New Berlin. His family used to go to my father.
My in-laws restaurant, Rick's restaurant in New Berlin for many years and said that was an
inspiration for him to go into hospitality. And what I really liked was that, you're usually
when you go to these festivals, you need like a second mortgage, you know, just to get a meal and a
beverage, but the beers were $7 and the burgers were $10 and like that was, you know, like I thought
that was very reasonable. And so, you know, hats off to parks and rec city people. I don't know if they
had a hand in that, but that certainly makes it more enjoyable. You know, you have to buy tickets
when you're buying beer. And so we bought six tickets each. We were walking. So it was enjoyable
evening. That was really fun. But then on the 4th of July, we we barbecued at my father-in-law's
house in New Berlin. And then we came home and we were invited to our daughter's boyfriend's home
out in Pebble Valley. And that's the home of a Wachshaw North baseball coach, Don Rudewski,
who's a North Star set a great season. Don also was selected to coach for the, is a state all-star
tournament in which there were four regions. And so Don got to coach the Eastern or the South
Eastern region. It was all seniors. And they were, I believe they're undefeated. So it was a great,
it all took place on a Saturday, like a round robin. And they went all three games against the
other three regions of the state and a lot of fun. But we, they have a, in that neighborhood,
there is their own special fireworks show. It's beautiful. It's a huge backyard that several
homes share. It kind of reminds me, if you've ever been to Revingion, Highland Park, Illinois,
to see music, it was very much like that setting. And so they had their own little fireworks show.
And so it was really great because you didn't have to negotiate all the, you know, going through
people and parking and driving and getting in and out. Although I will say now that's a little park
that is much more manageable because there's several ports of entry and exit. So I really like that
it's there. It just seems, feels more like a community experience than going to the airport.
So, but yeah, that little private that neighborhood fireworks show, I thought that was terrific.
And it would be neat to see other neighborhoods participate in that as long as we're doing it
safely and responsibly. And like where we are in Banching Park, I think that would be a great
setting to do something like that. Because I think there's enough space. So, but
better check with your older person. That's it. Yes. Thank you, Kathleen Cummings. So that was very,
very well said. And you know, and I also want to mention too was this year, I just figured out
marks the 30th anniversary of what I call my favorite Fourth of July. And it wasn't spent here
in the United States. It was actually spent in my ancestral homeland of Ireland, where I'm with
dual citizen. And it was a few months after my grandmother passed away. So it's kind of my ode to her.
At the time, I was managing an Irish pub in Chicago and the owner had helped kind of sponsor me
to go there and also buy items for the pub. And you know, as someone that was, I was in second grade
during the bicentennial. Okay. And it felt this lack of connectivity as a descendant of immigrants
to the bicentennial, to the revolution, to the American revolution, a detachment, if you will.
And then I'm staying in my grandfather's family's home in the West and county Claire.
And it's a hill where my families lived for like close to three or four hundred years.
And my uncle Mickey, my grandfather's only living brother out of 15 kids. He drives me over to
the home where my grandmother was from. And on the way there, we're going around to Ben. There's
a big hill and at the bottom of the hill, there's a monument with some soldiers in the
the stonework, if you will. And my uncle says, that's the Renean ambush memorial.
Your grandmother had a brother who lost his foot in that battle. And I would learn,
you know, years later, when I turned to Ireland, I was working there. I would learn from a cousin
that it was two of my grandmother's brothers, including her father. And it wasn't her father.
It was her uncle, I guess my great uncle, who my uncle Pad who lost his foot. And it didn't
happen in that battle. It had it had happened in the recourse following that in which the black
of the British troops had just really raped and pillaged. Bill Talmalbe in the west of Ireland.
And that's where I make my grandfather or my uncle lost his foot. But is the stonework
where the foot was lost? No, he said, I like stonewall jacks. Yeah, not like some all jacks.
But it was in the site that the stonework, the monuments at the site of where the ambush took
place. Okay. And but where my uncle lost, I believe was probably nearest home in Bill Talmalbe,
well, just up the road. But it was, I would learn that it was the first ambush against the Crown
forces in the Irish War for Independence. And so it was on that day that I learned that, you know,
as part of, you know, Irish freedom fighters in that war for independence and that really that
this, this American revolution is ongoing. It started in 1776, but it continues with, you know,
anybody, and we're out most of us are children of immigrants. We all have a revolution,
a story in our lives in that, you know, coming here and establishing yourself and giving your
chance, your children a chance. And you know, that's a revolution in my mind. And there's been so
many and so many to celebrate. And I think, you know, no matter what part of you're in,
it's just something to think about is that we, you know, we are all part of this great American
revolution. That is correct. And we must be continue to be vigilant. Absolutely. And I'm reminded
about what I did. It was a quiet fourth of July. But what I tend to do on my fourth July,
if I'm not in Thor County, is I watch these movies on Gettysburg. Oh, yes. How fragile our
freedom and our country is. Yeah. And I mean, the battle was fought over states rights and still
today, hundred and some years later, we're still talking about states rights. So it doesn't change.
We just need to remember. Right. And then in case of what, of your ordeal, we know that this
American revolution must continue. And we must continue to be vigilant. And what happened to
you can happen to anybody, even in what we call a free society, a free Republican small or democratic
small D society, though we must continue to be vigilant against forces of, let's say greed or
corruption or a different agenda, shall we say. And we look for how we doing on time here, Maxi.
Okay, woman. So we're for to continuing this conversation with Kathleen Cummings and her fight.
And back down, we're going to touch upon the odds of a quiddle in this country when facing
criminal charges that Kathleen had learned, probably as you're getting closer to trial too,
that probably had to make you very nervous and so much more local news. Actually, I found out
after the trial. Oh, even better. So yeah, it's good thing they probably didn't tell you on purpose.
But this week and watch continues and be sure to download the civic media app because if you're
traveling, especially on this holiday weekend, you can catch so much great music, great news at
local levels, as well as the brewers, depending on where you are. So more on this week and watch
on WUK 540M 101.1 FM, man, the civic media.
Okay.
Hey, you're listening to this week in Waukesha here in the Suffergette City.
I'm your host Don Brown. I am joined by the Mighty Max Martinson on the board and my good friend and
guest fellow former alder and former county supervisor Kathleen Cummings and a couple of things
that you know, Kathleen and I were talking at the beginning of my show, I always give an ode to
the Adora Yalman's park right around the corner and we shout out our what we call our Suffergette
Suffergette heritage here in the Sean. Many don't know this and the only reason I knew is when I was
on the council in September of 2019, Mayor Riley issued a proclamation for the Centennial, the
100th anniversary of the ratification of the 19th Amendment giving women the right to vote
and acknowledging Theodore Yalman's a Carol graduate and a reporter for the Waukesha Freeman,
who was the president of the woman's suffrage movement in Wisconsin and many of you don't know
many you don't know this but Wisconsin was the first state to ratify the 19th Amendment. So I
think it's we need to do more than while it is a lovely little park, a little postage stamp
size park. I think it's we need to do more I think to honor that that history, that proud Waukesha
history and someone who embodies that spirit, the first woman to serve in both the common council
of Waukesha and the county board of supervisors simultaneously, Kathleen Cummings and again,
unfortunately we know her better as the the vindicated recently acquitted on charges of election
fraud, Kathleen Cummings and we were talking Kathleen you learned at some point turns out
as after the trial, the criminal trial your attorney had told you that most cases in this country
throughout the United States, tell him which he told you. What I didn't know is that an acquittal
is very rare. Of the 10,000 prosecutions plus in the state of Wisconsin 95% of the
the charges are plea debt, there are plea deals and then of that only 5% of the of that 5% 95
will take the jury trial and only 5% end up in acquittal. Yeah, only 5% are found out guilty.
It's staggering. So you know that's like 25 out of 10,000. Sure. And I've already used up 7 of them
for this year. Yeah. Way to go. Congratulations. It has to feel so good. It feels so good and I can tell you
that it's not like television. You don't stand up. You sit there and he's and the judge started
talking and the first thing he said to the the the prosecutor of Walworth County was hey,
didn't you go to college at such and such a college and he said yes. He said where did I
where did you vote? He goes I voted at home and where is that? And then it went downhill for him
after that. Wow. But yeah, that that it was it was something because we we can talk about the
trial for a moment there. It looked very much and James Santel has just entered the office of
former alderman down Paul Brown. He'll be appearing in our second hour, but we'll also be listening
intently here in the this second half of our number one and really grateful to have him here
because we certainly want his perspective. He's been following this case closely and has a great
relationship with your attorney, Kathleen, as well as her son that's also an attorney. Oh,
I was unaware. We'll get to know more about that later, but I look forward to hearing about
yeah, yeah. So, but let's talk about his prior to the trial. It didn't that look good. Is that
fair to say? I mean, there were there were attempts to dismiss that had got dismissed. And so
that does not bowed well for a defense, right? No, but I every time we we tried, I was always
very hopeful. Sure. But that's really not how the legal system is set up. Okay. This legal system
is set up so that if you're found guilty, you can complete you can appeal. Okay. So, but we go to
trial. Yes. And how many witnesses did the prosecution have? If you could remember just
approximately. I didn't count them. Many city staffers. Dan Duknex stands out in my mind.
Why would the head of the water department be a witness? Because there was quite a lot of talk
about the lack of usage of water at 1325 East Roberta Avenue. Okay. And your home in your
which is my home in my district. And he had a lot to say about that. And then there was
the assistant clerk. I mean, there was just a lot of staffers there and Kevin was the first
chairman of the former city administrator. Correct. So and but of course your attorney had a
chance to counter or you know cross examine. Yes, they cross examine. One one that stands out in my
mind was my husband is a poll worker or trained poll worker for the city of Waukesha. I love this.
And I was getting ready for my sister and I was cleaning off his desk which is really the coffee
table. But and I found this document that talks about what you when you go to vote, what is
established your residency? Oh, this is interesting. Where should I put this? Well, I put it in my
binder and I said I'll show that to my attorney. Showed it to her and she used it in trial. And
then in trial. And then she had your husband come up and testify. Yes. Well, no, the DA had him come
and testify. Interesting. It's kind of it backfired then. Yeah, the DA's the DA
wrapped on the door at after midnight on Friday just before the trial. Okay.
And wanted him to be a witness for the prosecution. And did he? Well, isn't he recuse though as a
family member? Like he doesn't. He can be. Okay. We had him on our witness list. We didn't
subpoena him. But he got subpoena by the prosecution. Yes. Okay. Interesting. And so at that
point, he couldn't he couldn't say no. I'm not sure about I believe there is a way of saying
you could talk to you to the trial. Yeah. So then I had to get a hotel room. Wow. For real?
Yeah. We got a hotel room so that no one could even suggest that we were talking about the trial.
It was not aware of any aspect of that. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I sure shoot and I didn't want anybody to
think that I went home and I talked to him. Yeah. So I just but he knew more about it than you did
as an election about the procedure. Oh, yeah. So he knew. And then when one of the clerks, the
former one of the deputy clerks said, did she recognize this document? She said, yes, we used
this the train and on there. I had like half of the documents. I have a passport and that
that address my driver's license, my taxes, my credit cards, my utility bills were on. We're in
our name. So she made her point. And again, as I understand from the city's legal department,
if you've established all that, why would this not have been dismissed earlier in the process?
Well, that's been a question that still has not been revealed. So let's put a pin in that
till Jim Santel comes out to speak and speak to that. And I look forward to that. Jim's got some
good intelligence to share in that. But so what did your husband say when he testified though
that you were called that certainly helped your cause unbeknownst to the prosecution?
Probably just what you shared, right? Well, those who know us are very familiar that Joseph
became increasingly harder and more difficult to tear up. Yes, he's 34. It's not like when you're
a three year old and you're trying to corral them in to do something at 34, you have a lot more
strength than you're getting older. And it was harder for my husband to watch him because
he had two bad knees that were going out. And we were looking at having surgery for him,
but then there was COVID. So, you know, to give you some idea, his legs on X-ray were bowl naked.
So he just, you know, he couldn't get up and take care of Joseph like he used to. So it was left
to me. Okay. And that's what he testified about was that? Right. Because we were transitioning
to the house on Downing. And that's why I spent a great deal my time. Sure. And because you own
both homes, it's really immaterial like where you spent more time. Correct. It's what I consider
to be my home. Okay. So now, who, what other witnesses for the prosecution tests that you
remembered that on cross examination did not do very well for the prosecution's case?
Like, first that comes of mine is when the former City Administrator had appeared.
I'd heard from someone that was there that that your defense attorney had done very well
in cross examination. A lot of it is a blur done. It really is. But there are moments that I recall.
And one of the moments was he had received this call by a text message from the postman who
happened to be his boy's baseball coach. And I find this interesting that in the, I found this
interesting in the fact and so did the judge find it interesting that he learned this in November
of 2020. And he said nothing and did nothing about it until March of 2021. Okay.
The other piece when the postman testified, well, he said that Kevin asked him to do a document
or something like that. And he just basically, they said I wasn't there between 2020 and 2016.
And two of those years, we didn't even own the other home. Okay.
Well, so I just don't know what to say after that. That's okay. But no, I mean that, yeah, I mean,
now the defense, you have a raster of witnesses. Yes. And who did they include?
They included people that I had worked with over a period course of years.
Um, even some of the city staff was called as a witness cross examined and were helpful to me.
And, and my husband, David, their, uh,
or the couple neighbors were asked to testify to the right on your behalf. It was interesting that
the one neighbor we lived next door to the longest wasn't in the findings for the
DA. Yeah. And he lived right next door to me and knew that I was down there. But, um,
he can speak intelligently to your ownership and your residency of that home.
Yes, he could. He could. Uh, it was just, um, I just throughout the 30 months just shook my head.
I thought, how in the world did I get in this, this fix? Right. I mean, and I think in the end,
it probably was a fix. Well, yeah, one that didn't go so well, it looks like from the fixers,
fair to say. That would be, that would be correct. But, um, never, he, um, he being, he meaning, uh, Kevin
Laneer, uh, the city administrator at the time, we have what we call Kevin over the course of
years and you're aware of this Don had had a failure to communicate with the council. And so as part
of that, we had monthly meetings with him so that he could appraise us of what was going on within
the city. And I didn't miss meetings. I met with the mayor. I met with Kevin. They were usually
at the same meeting and never once during the, uh, from November until July, end of July,
did anyone from the city ever ask me what was, where did I live? And I find that suspicious
because if they wanted to know all they had to do was ask. And didn't you learn? Well, we'll,
we'll continue this conversation. In my understanding that somebody from the city leadership had
six months before all this went down head, sent a letter to, um, I go to WalkShot County DA
asking to investigate on
possible residency infractions or whatever you want to call it. But we're going to continue this
conversation. Plus more local news. And again, take the Civic Media app on the go so you can
catch all the great programming we have here. Not only for this week and WalkShot, but WUK
and the 20 plus station Civic Media has throughout the state. And if you like music,
we've got some great stations, um, out in Barabu, if you like 80s and 90s, uh, country and so much
more here. You'll listen to this week and WalkShot WUK 540 AM 101.1 of them. This shot.
I want to say, I want to tell you about the young idea.
In the city, there's a thousand things I want to say to you when we're talking about the city
WalkShot here on this week and WalkShot. And like great friend and a legal advisor, James
Santel of Amicus, that's on at nine o'clock has joined us early. We're glad to have Jim. But before
we include Jim, I want to continue with this point with Kathleen Cummings is you were informed
that a letter was sent from somebody from the city leadership in March of 2021. They're about
to the WalkShot County DA. Is that correct? I didn't find out about that till we found out the
findings. Correct. During the discoveries that in the discovery is when we found out who
and went and tell us about that. Well, my lawyer just said, do you know a Kevin Lainer? And I
said, yeah. And he says, that's the person who who went to the DA. He what's interesting about
this letter or points that he made in this is he did not use city letterhead. Yet within the
contents of the letter, he won't he went from being the city. I felt it was my duty as city
administrator. Then it was, I'm a private citizen. Then the city administrator, then private citizen
went back and forth. And in this letter, he'd volunteer that there was fairly what you could call a
public feud between you and him in terms of your scrutiny of his performance or
transparency or lack thereof. Is that fair to say? What I've found in life done is the people
who accused you of something are the ones doing it. I had a, at the county, we had a model where we
a mock toll, which was we debated in committee. We debated on the county floor. And when we left
the doors, we left it there. It's obvious to me, after 30 months and all this discovery that
that was not the type of person Kevin Lainer was. He took it home. There's no other, there's no other
explanation. Okay. And so, and since that time, probably a year or two after all this went down,
Kevin has left the city while he's now he accepted an offer with the city of Jamesville. As I
believe, their city administrator, whatever that title is. Oh, city manager. City managers,
which is really how he was acting as he was not acting like a city manager in the city of
Waukesha. He was acting like a city manager in the city of Waukesha while he was hired as an
administrator of policy. He was hired to administrative the policies at the Waukesha Common Council
had adopted as well as the city. That was his job. Got it. And head in your mind,
had he exceeded that brief in his role? He didn't follow policy. On any number of occasion,
he did not follow policy. And that was my that was my issue. Okay. And I'd bring it to the attention.
And then I would win someone. I would lose some. Okay. So James Santelos here, we'd ask
earlier the fact that it in a review of the, what an election judge when they're reviewing
when they're vetting voters, passport license, whatever has to be presented. When we look at Kathleen
said, why was this case not dismissed earlier, given the fact that she had established legal
satisfactions of residency. And they'll give Jim a second here to set up. He's plugging in.
So my my apologies there. May just got to raise the volume there. But here we go.
All right. Sorry about that, Jim. Not at all. Kathleen, so good to be in your presence and
welcome again to the civic media station here in Waukeshaw. Glad to be with you and appreciate
very much your thoughts and comments on all this. Many questions about the the process here is
Dan has been talking with you about one of them is he's just identifying here the pretrial period.
One of the things that I should also say at the outset that I know you're turning very well.
Donna and I are friends from way back when her son Tony cotton also an extraordinary defense
counsel and I suspect you you feel very strong about them as well. Great law firm. Absolutely.
Absolutely. And but I only knew Donna from walking around the neighborhood. Sure. Sure. And now,
of course, much more, yeah, regrettably much more intimately in terms of the process here as well.
And we can chat more about that as we go forward here. One of the things that Don is asking you about
and I think I suspect the listeners would also be interested knowing there are times obviously when
a case is under investigation that ultimately the decision is made by a prosecutor to charge.
And that happened in your case plainly. Can you talk with us about that time period between
your notification of the fact as you're just describing that this was under investigation and
the decision by the charging official here the prosecutor specifically attempts and I suspect Donna
did this on a cookler your attorney engaging with with the DA and attempting to establish some
fax here that maybe the DA did not know it did not appreciate you recall some of that and can
you describe that period of time at all in which you were attempting to try to prevent this from
happening at the start. I mean, after the house was absolutely. But before before before you were
formally charged in that period of time. Yes, there's discussion between the authorities.
Exactly. And tell us about what your I think I've got a sense of what was going on here because
I know Donna. Well, I know the process well. But in attempt, I would offer to try to convince the
prosecutor. But what the facts really are, right? And which came out at trial before we go down
that road of having a trial and having charges. You recall any of those kind of conversations with
the prosecutor whether it's with Donna or directly between Donna and the prosecutor anything about
that and attempt to try to bring this to a conclusion prior to this all important decision to charge.
Well, I can tell you that none of us thought it would take this long. Yes. None of us did.
But I can say that in early September, I think that's what we're talking about. Yes, right.
Prior to I don't know what came first the findings or the discussion. I really
sure don't remember. But I recall that my husband said something was said in the fact that
she's trying to hide this from her constituency. She's she's she's doing this on purpose and she's
trying to skirt the law. And that wasn't the case back in 2020 in 2015. I was running for state
assembly. Not yeah, state assembly. And against Scott Allen, right?
Scott Allen and a few other individuals. Aaron Perry ran. Yep. And I think there was
Vince Toronto. There were several. Okay. And it came to question. And the newspaper reporter asked
me and I said, well, I'm never home. Right. We're going to continue this discussion in our second
hour with Kathleen Cummings recently acquitted on charges of election fraud. And what's next for her
in this first leg of her redemption tour here on this week in Waksha as we go into the second hour.
Yeah.
July 6th, 2024. It is 8 o'clock on Saturday morning. It's still time for this week in Waksha. I
am your host downtown. Downey Brown coming to you live and local from the office of former alderman
Don Paul Brown. I am joined by the mighty max martinson on the board. My guest continuing from
the first hour, former legislator and recently acquitted of false charges and election fraud,
Kathleen Cummings. And in the second hour, I have my good friend, James Santel, who you'll be
catching from 9 to 11 with his show that I call affectionately Atticus. A lot of you, I though,
it's amicus. And but before we begin with Kathleen, we have our first leg on our farmer's
market report. Suzy, are you there? Suzy, hello. Hey, hello. How are you? Good, good. Tell us
about the farmer's market on this beautiful Saturday morning. Well, it's funny. I was doing a little
research on the farmer's market. And I found out it's a 25th year. I didn't know that last time I
was here. But and it's one of the largest in the state. Wow. How about that? I knew that. I knew
it was one of the largest. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. I didn't know it was a 25th, though.
When we're it's open till noon today, it opened at eight, which is just a few minutes ago.
We're in the corner of Waukeshau, not Waukeshau. St. Paul and Madison. Oh, yeah. And for
parking, you can actually park in the Waukeshau state bank parking lot. And there's other
lots around here. But there's over 100 vendors. So if there's 100 vendors, maybe that doesn't sound
like a lot if you're at the store. But if you're at the farmer's market, you have to actually stop
and look at everything. So if you want to come to the farmer's market, get down here because there's
so much to see. All Wisconsin businesses, 100 vendors, the largest in the state. You can't beat it.
Fresh produce. We are next to the ketchup, please guy who makes ketchup. That's right.
And a flower guy in the other side. So come on down. Say hi. Stop at our booth. We've got
candy and dog biscuits. And we're registering people for bikes. So hope to see you down here.
And I'm Susie Austin for Waukeshau. Thanks so much. Susie Austin. We'll check back with you
at about the 834 mark, though. Thanks again for calling in. And yes, Susie's absolutely nailed
on the head. I'm glad you kind of gave us an overview there of the available parking. There are a lot
of people in Waukeshau that don't know there is plenty of parking behind Waukeshau State Bank.
And plenty to see too as we add new exhibitors here to their farmer's market. So but returning to
our star guest, my good friend and former fellow alder and also a county legislator,
Kathleen Cummings. And I'm holding here in the stream yard.
Kind of our Dewey defeats Truman moment. It's the cover of the Waukeshau Freeman from,
I believe I'll see you here. The date was May 8th. And it says Cummings acquitted. And it's
a picture of Kathleen with her arm in the air like a boxing champ with her attorney.
And that's Donna, Donna Kugler, good friend of James Santel. And so we were talking as we are
finishing that the first hour. Let's continue that conversation. Jim was involved. Do you remember
where you were, Kathleen, when we were talking? I have no idea. Jim, you got our refresher?
Absolutely. So absolutely. Kathleen, once again, great to be with you this morning,
even talking about very challenging things and appreciate so much your sharing your perspectives
with. Not just Don and me, but obviously all the listening audience here as well. We were chatting
about that time between the search of your home when you first became, became aware of these
the location, not your home, obviously. And before the case was charged and attempts to prevent
the charges in the first place. And I know you were chatting both on air and a little bit off air
about the terrific role of your attorney. Again, who I admire, tremendous see the importance of
defense counsel and all this. Tony cotton her son and also colleague in that office.
Trying to persuade the state that there is not a case here that there is that you have some
some information. But let's try to understand what was going on here. This is a place. This is
a location there that you are not living in. And I wonder if you recall any of that attempts to
persuade the state, the prosecutors not to bring this in the first place. Do you recall any of
that? I do recall that this question had come up in my state assembly race in 2020, in 2015.
And there was a newspaper article written by the walk show Freeman, which entitled,
I'm Never Home. Because I was watching my disabled son up at the downing address. And I spent
a great deal of my time. My husband worked 40 hours a week at that time. I would spend nights
from time to time there. But, but the Roberta address was always my home. We were transitioning
Joseph. We didn't want to be my husband and I wanted to create a future for Joseph so that
he would know that the neighborhood lived in. We wanted to to transition him to a place where
he was loved. And we were going to establish our own group home. It didn't it didn't happen.
But trust me, I would have got a house in Door County if I wanted to second home. That was
always the plan, right? That was your attempt at you and David and Joseph had together, right?
Yeah. We had it. We even talked about it too. We had written out our willset year in February
of 21. And we were moving all that in that direction. And it just didn't happen. You need to also
remember, COVID happened in between all of that. And that further ex made the situation worse.
Both in getting things done. And how it affected many individuals without in these United States
and around the world. So, and I, that's the question we were leading to is that it looks from,
and again, I don't have that legal background that, of course, James says, but even a late person
like myself or your husband is an election judge. No, he was an election judge. He is, he is a
poll worker. I stand corrected. That I'm not sure what according to his training,
according to his training, you've satisfied all the requirements for residency with your
identifications with the proper paperwork. And yet, the warrants that were served me were
addressed to 1325 Easter, Bertor Avenue. And I want to make another correction too, is that it was
the Walworth County police sheriff's department where Burlington resides. We mentioned Burlington
because the former city administrator was also a former city leader at administrator manager,
whatever the title is in Burlington, and that it was the Walworth County sheriff that were called
upon as an objective investigative body or whatever, you know, Jim can phrase that for me. But
do you think that this case would have gone to trial at their bent, not been any type of political
pressure from city leadership in Waukesha, city of Waukesha? I learned not to deal in absolute
anymore. Sure. And that is I, there were findings though that you had found that didn't weren't
introduced in the court, but they're on public record. Correct. About phone calls or inquiries.
Oh, which one? The one I went back to work. Yeah, when you went back to work, when you went to a
city council meeting, and it goes like in late October, early November, like the time that I went
back to work. And then the next day, Kevin Lainer and Captain Fingerprint. No, city administrator,
Kevin Lainer called the walk, the wall worth the A and said that what is she doing at these meetings?
And, and she voted God forbid that I voted at a meeting that I was elected to. And I had every
intention when I got back from sick leave that I would go back to work. But there was
pressure during that time for might me not to attend meetings. And then it became clear I couldn't
do my job. And Kathleen to that point at the end of, I know that Donna certainly has talked
you a lot about this throughout the time in America for you for every defendant who is charged,
even in a pre-charging this is a situation certainly post-charging. There's a presumption of
innocence, right? There's a presumption that you are not in fat guilty in that stays with you
until the time that a judge or jury finds otherwise. And during that time, you can in fact do all
the things you'd otherwise do, including exercise your obligations as a public official vote, not only
in that setting, but obviously more formally to everything. There was nothing that knew you're not
stripped of any civil rights. And then that's what Don's, Don's inquiry and sort of the incredulity also
goes to hear that there would be efforts to try to stop you from doing the other things that you're
assigned to do even while in America and here in Wisconsin, you're presumed innocent. And there's
no no assumption that those things will be stripped away from you. I was found guilty before I
hand the trial. I was treated as a guilty person before the trial. It seemed like the media was
complicit with what was going on. Correct. I, I, and I started it up, but it's interesting to me that
no other statewide media outlets have pursued this miscarriage of justice to again, a public
legislator who served with dignity integrity for a quarter of century and one legislative body,
the county, and almost a quarter century at the city level that we showed cases throughout the
state of Wisconsin, one being the Sullivan case that was being discussed more recently at the time.
We showed them the newspaper article that there wasn't some big netherious plot that I was not
living in my home, but it nothing seemed to be enough. Nothing seemed to be enough. They were
out. They meaning the parties that be who started this were out to get me. They, let's be honest
here. I always let the city administrator or the mayor or somebody in authority when I left
town. We went to have a family vacation in Door County with my son, two sons, and husband.
So they knew I was gone. Then there's this effort to try to call me that we're going to do a search
warn of your home. They had eight squad cars, four at each home breaking in because obviously I
couldn't get teleport to walk a shop from Door County, let alone we don't get cell phones
coverage in Door County. But in search of a crime, they were there to find out where I was sleeping.
And as a result, which is very public knowledge, they found that there were other issues
happening. And that's why I went on medical leave. I took time for myself, which I had never done
to address some mental health issues that I had. And I've worked the program.
And to that point, again, Kathleen to put this in a way that I'm sure Donna Cookler or
extraordinary attorney would also describe to you that, you know, we've got a fourth amendment
right in America to be free from unreasonable searches and seizures. And that has overcome only
again when there is there is a finding by a judge to go into a certain place, the extraordinary
nature. Sorry to cut in. We're going to continue this discussion here. And this week in
Waukeshaw and give Jim a chance to finish his question in Kathleen Cummings a chance to answer here.
Here listening to this week in Waukeshaw for those of you just tuning in, that was out of the darkness
by one of my favorites, little Stephen and the disciples of soul, little Stephen was the original
league guitar for Bruce Springsteen's e-street band. And and also was the kind of the cap are the
console area and the sopranos was Silvio Dante. And so, but that's on very fitting as Kathleen
Cummings is here out of the darkness after 30 months of hell facing charges, seven charges of
election fraud and acquitted on all of them back on May 7th. And her first media appearance since
then her first leg of her redemption tour. She joined by some very close friends here,
Vicki Heckers, who was a one of the witnesses testifying in her trial. And very good good,
good, our mutual very good friend, very Jane Sanchez, who I think hustled back from a vacation
and her father's got to be here to support Kathleen. And so, I know it's got to make you feel good
that you had so much support from so many friends during this hard deal, yet there was still this
huge public cloud over your your reputation and your good name. Yeah. I didn't even feel like
I could go to church. Yeah, I remember I saw you there the one day at St. Mary's and I
wanted to just grab you and hug you as you're coming back from communion, but I thought it might
have been too much of a disruption, but regret that I did it. I wanted the whole world to see,
but it it was difficult when your whole life is scattered in ruin and in the front page of the
Freeman and and other outlets. And yeah, I don't really want to know about the other outlet.
But it was out there. Yes. So sense of verdict. Yes. You go to church. You go to the Super
Mar or any public. Do you find people are coming up to you and congratulating you and embrace they
feel it's comfortable. It's safe now to talk to Kathleen. I believe it's safe. And then they feel
safe during that 30 months. It was, you know, right? A lot of people are real like, oh, there's
Kathleen coming. Like, you know, like there was right that hesitancy or that, which is sad.
I didn't just say I didn't hear from good. That would be a fair statement. Sure. But,
you know, there there are a lot of good people out there and I could not have got through it without
yes. Absolutely. So and we couldn't be happier for you. And we know that, well, you know,
there's so much more in store for you here. I mean, you're still very young in my opinion and
is running for elective office and something to feed to think about in your future.
Well, I'm looking at all options, Don. Well, it's spoken like a true politician here.
I hear you're talking integrity and she gives us the water down answer. So Jim said tell us about.
Well, I think right now I didn't do the radio show earlier because right after the trial,
I honestly couldn't put two sentences together. Sure. And then I went on vacation with my siblings
and had a wonderful time. Nice. You want to know a cruise, right? Yes. To Alaska. I recommend it
to everyone. Sure. Save up for it. That's fantastic. So Jim, I want to get back to you because I know
you were in the middle of a question before we broke. Sure. Kathleen, you were just describing
that that time period. We got notice that law enforcement has descended on on your two properties
and chatting about the legal side of things, which I'm sure Donna and others have talked with you
about as well, that it is an extraordinary thing. Obviously, when when a government decides again,
based upon a judicial impromotor, if you will, that you're going to go into a home had to be a
dramatic thing for you to find out that again, you're your home and this other location.
You're planning to turn into a group home for your son that those have the subject of this
of this search. Tell us more about your your sense at that time. Again, this is fairly early on
that you recognize it. Oh, my goodness. Something very significant is happening here.
Had to also have a dramatic impact instead of a dramatic impact on anybody who is facing that kind
of government action. And I suspect you too. It was traumatic. It was just surely traumatic.
We all we all live with things we don't want to share with other people. And for me,
having been a mother of a disabled son and many other challenges, I didn't take care of myself.
And as a result of that, other things were let go. I
I where I went done, well, the memo didn't say is I sought mental health treatment. And I suffer from
anxiety and depression. A lot of got worse during COVID. And I was juggling balls, but I didn't even
realize the balls weren't being juggled anymore. And so I've embraced that. I take medication for
my OCD and and continue to this day trying to have better health. I mean, in Boy Scouts, we have
duty to God, duty to country, duty to self. Well, I forgot about the self part. And that's what I
that's what I've worked on to become a better me. But this thing nearly broke me. And I do believe
it was their intention. It was absolutely their intentions to break me.
And I will throw this point in real quick was that. And that certainly went Jim's legal opinion is
that each time they offered you a plea, one of the provisions was that you're never to run for
public office again, interestingly enough. And the million dollar question is, is that constitutional?
Can a district attorney, can a prosecutor enforce that? Jim, we have two minutes. Sure. And again,
obviously, all these things are subject of contracts, which are agreements between parties.
All things can happen. My response. And again, I think Donna and I are both interested in your
response to that offer is that, you know, again, you're you're presumed innocent until there is an
adjudication here and adjudication that would would limit you in terms of what you can do in the
future in your own public life. And it strikes me that that term is at least problematic. And
I would be interested in knowing again your reaction to it when again, not only admitting if this
would be a part of the arrangement, confessing to somebody you did not do and did not believe,
but also then restricting your very capacity to go forward beyond a conviction.
Had to be also a dramatic thing for you to be confronted with. I'm guessing.
It was it was horrible early on. You asked me before was there any
done was making little little gestures over there. The one minute mark. That's all one minute.
Well, one minute. Let me think. The first thing that was proposed to me was just take a felony,
a $200 fine, no probation, no parole, and this is what I'll be done with. No jail way. And I said,
no, I said, I'm not a felon. I'm not going to agree to a felony. Maybe we could look at other
things that maybe I could have done, but I didn't think I did. But, you know, but no, I am not a felon.
We're going to continue talking about these different opportunities for Kathleen to plea out,
as well as what's next for her in light of these this landmark acquittal. And so much more here
as this weekend walk is Shaw on this beautiful Saturday.
Hey, listen to this. We can walk a shout out your host down Brown coming to you live in
local from the office of former alderman down Paul Brown. And we're talking about a revolution
that includes Kathleen Cummings victory over injustice and the first leg of her redemption
tour. We're proud to have here on the show. But first, our second report from the farmer's
market. Susie, are you there? I am. And we're having a farmer's market. We're
evolution down here. Love it. Yeah. A hundred vendors here. And it's great. It's one of the
largest in the state. We're right on the corner of St. Paul and Madison. Come on down just
park and walk. Shaw State Bank parking lot. And it's open till noon. And it's a 25th annual
farmer's market. And some of them, we're right next to the ketchup, please, please. That's
your name. That's not an interesting story because this guy started this business when he was
a freshman in high school because he had heart surgery and couldn't find ketchup that was organic
or sugar free. And now he's got it in stores. And the best thing about it is you get to sample it
on a potato chip. So I'm off for that. Then there's also man-zel designs with unique
and fun homemade jewelry. Roberts produce. Now this is great because they grow everything
naturally and pesticide free. So we wouldn't want that. And Serenity soap works. There are
another featured vendor here. Goats milk soap bars. Nothing gets cleaner than goats milk, right?
That's it. And then sunrise. This word, I always had problems with sunrise, Acya bulls.
And don't ask about my phonetic spelling of it. But they're down here too. And we're having
lots of fun meeting people. We're right across from the walkershot DBA doing business as.com booth,
Bayview bread, grass fed beef. And right next to the ketchup, please, booths. So come on down. We're
registering people to win a bike. And I hope to see you here. This is Susie Austin for WAUK.
Hey, thanks. You too, Susie. Thanks for calling in. And Susie mentioned 25th anniversary of our
farmers market. And that's a good time for me to talk about another 25th anniversary that will be
honored next week. We hope to have a guest from the ironworkers on the show. Next Sunday of the 14th,
512 pm was the was when the tragic accident took a place took place at the the building,
the construction of what was then called Miller Park. And three ironworkers, Jeffrey
Wischer, William de Grave, and Jerome Jerry Starr lost their lives when a crane nickname big blue
collapsed while lifting a section of the retractable roof onto what would become the new Miller
Park baseball stadium in Milwaukee when it opened in 2001. And so the ironworkers and some other
groups are honoring that tragic loss and their legacy and the great work that the ironworkers and
so many other great tradesmen and women did and putting that that beautiful park together now,
now called the American Family Field. And so we hope to be spending more time in that next week.
I also want to spend time next week and just briefly today, we talked about it last week about
we saw an article in the Freeman about flippin fabulous is leaving town a mainstream business
that they found a new location in Burlington, they're pleased with, but the reasons for them leaving
are still very troubling to me and they should be in other Waukesha residents that they were bullied
by a neighboring business unfairly. And that should not be the culture that should not be
what happens here in Waukesha where we have Friday Night Live, we have this Waukesha strong culture.
And you want your competition to do well, you beat your competition with fair play, with fair trade,
with you try to exceed them maybe in customer service and in quality of products, but not the tactics
that a certain business resorted to. And I'm hoping if we can get someone from the downtown
business association here next week to speak to that as well. So, but and then a final announcement
before we continue with Kathleen is thanks to Luke Mather for sharing this with me is at the
Waukesha Public Library on Friday July 19th at 4 p.m. there'll be a presentation of the original
Sinclair Lewis play called it can't happen here again, a nationwide celebration of resistance.
Now this speaks to what's going on nationally, but I would also say it it can't happen here again
locally in light of what had happened to Kathleen Cummings with this mistrial of justice that she
overcame successfully, but at a huge cost separating her from one family member,
costing her over 85,000 hours in legal fees and much much distressed and and disrepair to her
reputation to her good name. And Jim Santel from Amicus, I want to give the floor back to you that
the chair, if you will, to continue this discussion with Kathleen. Sure. Kathleen, once again,
so much appreciative of your candor, your thoughts, both intellectual, emotional, obviously many,
many things to chat about here as well. Just in the break, we were talking also about the role of the
judge and you were commenting about that. His name, of course, is Philip Koss for what it's worth
many years ago. I appeared in front of him in some cases on behalf of federal government. He makes
this finding at the end of all the testimony, including as you indicated, testimony of the Slitney
of witnesses, including Vicki, very clearly saying you're not living there in the downing,
downing drive address. You're there at Roberta Avenue. He makes a finding that the government
has wholly failed to present his case beyond a reasonable doubt to his persuasion and does a
quitgy, which means that he finds who not guilty, the charges are not supported by that. Your thoughts
very generally on the role of the judge, your sense of him and what happened here in the end from
the bench, deciding that in fact all these charges had to be dismissed and there's no merit to them.
Well, to be honest, I was disappointed in the judge along the way because my attorney had
submitted many appeals and I thought, oh, for sure, this one, this is going to be the one.
And so I think I wasn't really sure he was giving his verdict, his appraisal when he was
happening. I thought all defendants stood up and you sit down. It's not like Perry Mason. It's not
like Perry Mason. He is talking about the merits of the case. He's just talking as you would. He's
talking from the bench in his first, and I think I said this in the earlier hour, but you weren't
there. He says, and and see, you went to college at such and such and he goes, yes, and he goes,
and your home was here, yes. And where did you vote? He said, well, that's, it's not maybe
a exact analogy, but it's there was his first thing he had said. And then he went down the list.
And that's a difference between a jury, which comes back. We do not get the benefit of their
analysis. We shouldn't. They come back and they reach a verdict guilty or not guilty. Here,
you've got a court trial, which obviously you and Donna had agreed to and wave obviously a
wise decision in terms of what you knew to be the facts of the case, but the judge there does
give you the benefit of his analysis. And that's what you were hearing at the time of the verdict.
He had like five points that he he felt that my husband's testimony was credible. David was
reasonable. Yes, David. And and the witness is not one witness placed me there. Right. You
indicated early in the first hour in response to one of Don's questions also that even some of
the prosecution witnesses on Donas cross examination provided information supporting your position
that you in fact did not live at the other location. That's correct. And like, for instance,
one of them had picked up a Christmas wreath and I had I have no knowledge of that. I don't remember
it at all. I'm sure glad she remembered because I didn't remember. But yeah, it was something.
I was going to say something, but it's slipped my thoughts. Maybe when you go on, it'll come to me.
Sure. Sure. That's that is is just just fine. Obviously, as you indicated, the kind of process here
that I've always said this on on the shows here and other Don's show and other broadcasts that
criminal prosecution is human tragedy of any kind and your situation certainly underscores that.
It is no one. No one is should be happy about any of this. And especially in this situation where
it turns out that there is no support for the charges. And again, my commonly used phrase
human tragedy and regrettably, that is what you've experienced as well.
This should never happen to another elected official ever or a private citizen or a private citizen.
Exactly. I did this because I wanted. I'm here today because I wanted.
First of all, I wasn't guilty. And I can tell you the week before the trial I'm thinking,
do I lie now or did I lie then? You know, I went through this back and forth in my head. And the
fact is I didn't lie. But the whole system is set up for you to take a plea deal.
And I was never, you know, it is true what you said or constitution is set up that you are
innocent until proven guilty. But I was proven guilty before I was proven innocent.
Court of public opinion and out there. Everything that radio shows the not yours down.
Radio shows. And I'm not sure of the other ones because I was
sheltering myself from those things because I couldn't deal with one more thing.
And that's really what happened. I went back to work with the full knowledge to represent the
ninth and the 25th district of of Walker, Shuck County. And when that, when those phone calls
went back and forth to the DA in Walworth County saying she should not be here. It was inferred,
implied, but definitely I felt that I didn't know where or when. Not from the DA but to from the
city minister to the DA. The city of correct clarify that. Thank you, Don. Keep it me honest.
Now you did it for me when we were around the council. Yeah, I did. I did try to do that was
Walker Shaw City administrator. Kevin Layner and we have the footnotes to prove it that he is the
one that after the council meeting called the the Walworth DA and said, why is she here? She voted
last night. God forbid she voted. She was there for the whole meeting. Of course, I was there for
the whole meeting. I was on sick leave and I came back. I fully intended to fulfill my term,
but at that point with this going on for about 10 days, I decided I do not want my constituents
that I represented faithfully for nearly 25 years closer to right square in the middle.
To go through the hell that I was going to go through, I didn't want my constituents to be saying,
yes, she should resign. No, she shouldn't resign. Back and forth and back and forth, they deserve
better. And I resigned to retire because I didn't know what was going to happen next. I was
pretty sure, but not for sure because the threat of being arrested anywhere, anytime,
maybe on the council floor was there. Definitely, I felt it. There was no place for me to go.
But I, but it was an honor and a privilege to represent the ninth and the 25th. It was my passion.
I did many good things as they're elected officials official. I have stories that I could tell you
that's probably two, two arms and both legs and a whole body that I could share with you,
but I really believed in the Constitution. I really believed in the process. I believed in policy.
And none of those things worked for me. There was, I couldn't even go to HR through this. I
felt I couldn't even go to HR. I've now told that maybe I could have, but when Kevin Lainer made a
rule in January of 21, that all city staff is to let him know that any aldermen coming to them,
talking or asking a question or wanting them to do something, they had to report it to
the city administrator, Kevin Lainer. And that was done in January. The council did not become
aware of that too much later, closer to April. But I had said that by doing so, they've made,
they set up, he set up every city employee to be insubordinate to him if he, if they talk to us.
So we couldn't do our job. And as a point of reference, the, in terms of the leadership hierarchy,
the city administrator reports to the city council. Correct. And that's the other way around.
Right. But that's not how it worked in the city of Waukeshaw then.
We're going to continue this discussion with Kathleen Cummings and my good friend James Satell,
Sam Tels, excuse me, this week in Waukeshaw plus some more good local news here.
And WK 540 AM 101.1 FM the shot. And don't forget to download the Civic Media app if you have not
already.
Hey, you're listening to this week in Waukesha. That's my good friend Todd Rungren in Utopia
with one world and one of my favorite lines on that show, that song is politicians and dictators
and the guys with the dough, they think they run the world, but they just don't know that
down here in the streets, we got it under control from Berlin, December and Cisco from New
York to Tokyo, one world. And my guest Kathleen Cummings would agree that's how it should
be. That's how it should be. And I also want to put something else out there too, was that
because I know we have this very polarizing national political battle going on. That's
really unfortunate. And at the local level, you know, Kathleen and I say we're in different
sides of the spectrum. I don't have a party affiliation, but I have tended to vote more
with Democratic candidates. I call myself an American orphan. I have Republican roots
and my family, parents were Republicans, grandparents were immigrants, Democrats. And I had, I
was influenced by both, well, positively and negatively. But at the local level, none
of that going on the way. And if you saw what the things that Kathleen had championed
for families, those people with disabilities, for preserving our historic landmarks, that
again, she's a great example. And it's very akin to the civic media mission that there's
so much more that unites us, so many common values we share as Americans. And it was
unfortunate in this non-partisan environment, the local politics that, that this again,
this miscarriage of justice had taken place. Is that fair to say, Jim Centel?
I think that's, that's exactly right. And, and Kathleen, we've talked a lot about the
process here and about various aspects of the investigation, the search, the charging,
the role of the judge, that sort of thing. And I want to get back to something that you
said early on and began our discussion, at least my involvement in this morning. And that
is the role of defense council. Sometimes I often speak about this. Everybody plays their
part, the judge, the witnesses, certainly defendant, the prosecutor, the court staff, everybody
has got a role. And if everybody does their job, but I'd like to think that justice is
done. In this case, ultimately, it is, even though you had to be subjected to a process
much too long, comment, if you will, again, about the importance of defense council in this
process that kind of plays, ultimately, the rule of law and justice is achieved. And
Donna, in particular, if you'd like to.
Well, I can't give enough kudos to Donna Cookler, her team. I mean, it's just not a lawyer.
It's an entire staff. You know, you have the Kate, the paralegal, you have, I think Brian,
I think is in her office, he put forth many things, but it becomes like a team effort. And
just like with the constituent coming to me with a problem, I know how to work that. I
know how to work at getting things done. You know that area of the world, right?
Correct. I did not know law enforcement, legal stuff at all. Like Don said earlier, I
might have had two traffic tickets in my life. And that was about it that I can recall.
Nor should you have to, right? And now, yeah, but right now, I'm saying, I'm hedging
my bets. I still think I'm in a court of law. You've had this, this massive, unfortunate,
but in instruction, education in this process. And you've commented very graphically on it.
And again, that notion of being represented, huge, the important as a part of ensuring
that justice is done. I hear something a good friend on the council
said to me once. I mean, this is how I believed. I really believed in truth, justice, and
the American way. I was in this utopia type of mindset that if all we have to do is
work the problem and we'll make it, we'll make it work. And I really believe that to my
core. But what I've learned through this process is that I was wrong. The system is set
up for plea deals. The system is set up for outcomes, whether it be a DA getting reelected
or truth, you know, but it, and I really believed it was fair. I mean, I could through this
whole process, I could not believe I had been charged. And yet I had to deal with it.
And this friend of mine said to me, Kathleen, she knew I, we knew she could said we, we knew
you believed it, but we knew different. And she, she was of a Hispanic background. I really
believed it. So now I think, okay, when I watch a news reel, when I read something the paper,
I say, what are you not telling me? What is the rest of that story? Because it is not
fair. It is not right. And, and there are people in jail probably today that took the plea
deal that were innocent. Yeah. How about that? Because I was offered several, several, one
starting, like I said, with the $200 fine and one felony. And I said, no, then they charge
me with six more felonies. And then just before the, the last several weeks, they went into
the closed chambers and the question, what is the problem here says the judge? It says,
I have to be quiet, huh, Doc? No, no, I say, in their final two minutes. Oh, final two
minutes. And I was worried I'd have nothing to say. No, you to create. What is it you'd
like listeners to know that we haven't covered already, James and myself regarding your,
or deal. And, and what we can look forward to it, the, with the future of a vindicated
Catholic incomings. Number one, I have to put my family back together. My family was destroyed
because of this. There is a ache in my heart that has not gone away because Joseph is
not with me. I have not seen my son since August of 22. I was fearful. I had to be mindful
that I had, I was under a bond. I had to be mindful of what anything I did. I, um, it
has cost us financially when it during a time when we were supposed to all go on cruises
and enjoy retirement. It cost dreams because that particular year was going to run from
air. I had people asking me to run from air. And that certainly didn't happen. I just
just always wanted to make it a better place to live, work, and play. I always gave it my
best. And if I failed, it isn't because I didn't try. Thank you, Kathleen Cummings. Thank
you so much for your courage and overcoming injustice and for being here, saying for your
friendship and for all that you've done for the people of the city and county of Waukesha.
Thanks, everybody, for participating today. Thanks for James Santel, his show, amicus.
Thanks, Kathleen. And please remember, everybody in this holiday weekend, safety is everyone's
responsibility. Go Ramila Mahagavgal Air. And again, to Kathleen Cummings. Thank you and
God bless you. And see you.
