Losing a Battle, Winning a War? (Hour 2)

Live, across Wisconsin on Civic Media, you're listening to Mornings with Pat Craiglow powered by Up North News.

Now, for my Lake Mesota studio, here is the founding editor of Up North News, Pat Craiglow.

Well, hey there, Wisconsin.

Good morning.

It is 6 0 6 on a Friday morning, November 14th, 2025.

It is another beautiful morning to have you here up north live from Lake Wissota from wherever you're spending your Friday morning listening across the civic media radio network or watching us on social media, catching us by podcast, however you got here.

Thanks for wrapping up your work week right here.

I got a question for you.

Do you have a local ice cream shop?

Yep, we've been previewing this for a day or two and you thought I was probably gonna say who makes the best local ice cream or is the best?

But it occurs to me that not every community has something other than one of the chains and there's nothing wrong with culvers or Dairy Queen, but an ice cream shop just strikes me as one of those things that a local entrepreneur can still do without worrying about being absolutely crushed by the big boys, you know

Again, I use Olsen's here in Chippewa or Ramones down in Eau Claire.

You can have a local ice cream shop without worrying that, you know, you're going to lose all your traffic to culvers or DQ.

It's not the same as, say, opening a retail clothing shop and then Walmart comes to town.

All right.

So what do you have?

What would you like to tell people about?

And yes, Tony, I'm sorry, frozen yogurt, frozen custard that can all count to

Let's see, Alicia's already online saying we've got, I want to say, Lammers Dairy in Kimberly or Lambers, apologies, whichever way that goes.

So yeah, want to know what you've got for ice cream shops and you're going, pad, it's so cold out there.

Yeah, temperatures are in the 30s.

Ice cream is a year round treat.

We all know that.

Tony's telling us now, Craven with a K, frozen yogurt.

I'm guessing that's up in the Appleton area where he is.

Along the line on this Friday morning, you can join us as some of our friends are already on YouTube in the comment section.

That'd be YouTube.

either through Up North News or the Civic Media YouTube page.

Same goes with Facebook, Up North News or Civic Media.

And of course, for everybody listening down the radio, get that Civic Media app out and you can call us or just send us a text message 855-75-CIVIC-855-752-4842.

And you can also just record a quick little audio note saying the best ice cream shop is and then tell us all about it.

No way, I don't have to mispronounce it either.

Tony says that Craven is right on Main Street in Ashland, not Appleton.

If I said Appleton, then clearly it's too early in the morning here.

Coming up, we of course have Keva Keel from Courier Newsroom and we also have our Week in Review panel, which includes former U.S.

Attorney Jim Santel and veteran Chicago journalist Mark Jacob and Jennifer Schulze.

And we'll ask them a Chicago specific question because it was it really

caught my eye in the Chicago Tribune to see a letter to the editor signed by, I didn't count the names, but well over a dozen different retired journalists and media folks who say, you know, take it from us.

You've been watching us do the news for years and years and years.

It is not normal to have the military

to have troops in the streets of America's cities based on a presidential whim and don't normalize this.

This is not normal behavior by a president.

And so I'll ask our We Can Review team about that.

Let's see, Alicia says, hey, put some hot chocolate mix on top of some vanilla ice cream, and you're good to go.

Make sure it's just the powder.

Well, Parker Olson's producing things down in Madison Studio 2A.

That's a new one on me.

Sprinkle a little hot chocolate powder.

on top of some vanilla ice cream

powder and wow

that you know that might be just might be groundbreaking Alicia I yeah I don't know where Alicia got the idea I I sense it's a Navy trick while you're on board you know you can only get the things that you can get but uh interesting uh Jim in Campbell sport says Kelly's ice cream shop and um

Eden, it's even been on Good Morning America.

Jim's listening on WAUK or through WAUK, so we appreciate that very much.

No, Alicia, it's not the Navy.

She says, my dad introduced it to me.

That's a great parent-grandparent hack, you know.

Every so often, you're one of your grandparents, you're just like, oh no, do it like this.

We did this in the Depression or whatever, you know.

It's like, you weren't alive in the Depression.

Oh, it feels like it, you know.

Anyway, wait you weren't alive in the depression It just feels like it sometimes I've I've come through you might be soon.

Ah, yeah, that's right.

I've I've come through stagflation I've come through the OPEC oil embargo that precipitated it I've come through the the the big 80s and then the dot-com bubble and then the housing bubble and now the forthcoming AI bubble that's gonna burst the Great Recession

Yeah, good

times.

Yeah.

Sounds like a great.

I'm really excited to enjoy

life.

You're really excited for your adulthood, aren't you?

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

How many times have I said this is not the adulthood I signed up for, but it is the one that has been given to us.

So this weekend, let's see, it'll be back to another niece or nephew has a kid getting a big birthday party.

So...

I'll see what kind of ideas I get from there, because last weekend at a family function, I got the idea for that chicken pot pie soup, which was pretty tasty.

Definitely need to tweak the recipe a bit, but it was something different, something unique.

Why do I sense your plans involve white water?

My plans do involve white water.

Good senses, Pat.

I will not be going to white water, though.

We're going on the road, going up to Oshkosh.

Ashkash.

Ashkash Begash.

We're going up there.

Got a buddy coming over and we're heading up there.

Gonna hang out with his folks.

They've got some friends that we've got a tailgate going on there.

So we're gonna have a good

time.

So Whitewater

is

playing in Ashkash, is what you're saying?

Yes, yes.

Okay.

I suppose I probably should clarify that, yes.

The Hawks are going to be up in Oshkosh.

If Waitwater wins, they will will be in the playoffs.

If they lose, they have about a 25% chance of being in the playoffs.

If they lose, their season's probably over is what we're saying.

Wow.

So do you do more of the sports chat or anyplace else instead of the short little window that I provide for you?

We do a smidge more over at make the call.

You can listen to that on the Civic Media radio network.

at 7 a.m.

on Saturdays.

So set your alarms for about now.

Eh, you got another 40 minutes or so to sleep in.

Tomorrow.

Tomorrow.

Tune in.

Jimmy Cusco is the host of the roundtable.

Greg Gunderson, who we actually heard earlier this week on our show.

Yes.

Talking about.

The two hunters roundup, right?

Gun here.

Dear season, yeah.

And then Conrad Kruger over producing Nightlight with Pete Schwabba is on the roundtable

as

well.

Well, what a fine little opportunity this is to talk sports in Wisconsin.

Yes, so over to civicmedia.us if you want to learn more.

The Friday edition of the Up North News Daily newsletter is out and as promised, Ellie Bordeaux asking people where to grab a scoop when you're in the area.

And here are some of the ideas that

readers suggested.

Let's see.

In Burlington, there's Adrian's Frozen Custard as nominated by Dirk.

In Boulder Junction, there's the Ice Shanty and Mini Golf.

And Linda says they serve delicious cedar crust ice cream.

They have a weekly smoothie, smoothie special, such as an old fashioned, you can't get more Wisconsin than that Linda writes.

Nice.

In Abbotsford, you got to get to the Hawkeye Dairy.

Jerry writes the last time I was there, they had 31 flavors.

It's one of the rare places where I can find decent black licorice ice cream.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on whether there is such a thing as decent black licorice ice cream.

But for those folks that like

it, you can drop the ice cream part off of it too.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Let's see.

There is also the ice cream social in Madison made from scratch in small batches says Kathy.

And then there's nominations for Kelly Country Creamery and Fond du Lac and Clemish Creamery and New Auburn and more.

And if you're wondering what's Ellie got up her sleeve for next week and her locals love section, get ready because next week, um, we're going to ask who makes the best fish fry on Fridays.

Oh,

that's going to get people going.

That is indeed.

Uh, let's see.

Alicia gives out a go white water.

I think that's for you, Parker.

So there you go.

Well, it's not for you.

It's definitely not for me.

No, let's see.

I was going to ask if anybody had seen a third night of Northern Lights.

I don't see much for social media posts.

So I think, I think it's kind of run its course.

I heard one person last night going, Oh, I heard they're going to be good again tonight.

Like I haven't heard that, but I'll ask in the morning.

Nothing, nothing like that there.

In terms of temperatures, as I mentioned, it's in the thirties by and large across Wisconsin, a few scattered twenties, but it's going to get

above average today.

And I say all that to remind you of this.

This is one of those days where you bundle up the kids because it's in the 30s and then they're gonna come home and you're gonna go, where's your coat?

It was warm.

I didn't think to put it on.

It's in my locker.

And you know, Monday morning, it's gonna be a little chilly.

So this morning, remind the kids, which I know feels like talking to a brick wall sometime, but maybe try to reinforce.

Don't forget your coat today, even though it's going to be nice and pleasant this afternoon.

On the social media, I just had to jump on this one right away.

I could not believe that Congressman Derek Van Orden actually had the sense to put up a post like this.

But he did.

And you can see it over on our show page on Twitter, X, just search for PK Radio Show.

We're also on Blue Sky.

Then I put it on Facebook at mornings with Pac Rightlow.

Anyway, Derek Van Orden puts up a post on his congressional account there of him outside the US Capitol with his motorcycle.

And another guy is standing next to him and handing him something.

Now, if you missed it, Derek Van Orden.

had so little faith in Sean Duffy and the airline system that he said, I'm going to ride my motorcycle 900 miles to the capital so I can vote on jacking up people's health insurance costs and ending the government shutdown.

And of course, he didn't do that selflessly.

Of course, he made social media posts out of it.

He made a little political hay.

He got a little national media attention for the stunt.

And then he gets there.

And the post says, from Wisconsin to Washington DC,

951.8 miles on Milwaukee Iron to fight for the American people.

Thanks Harley Davidson for recognizing my ride to reopen.

And it must be somebody from Harley Davidson standing next to him handing him a little trophy.

It's got a little badger with an old school motorcycle helmet on with the little flaps on the sides.

And it says presented to Derek Van Orden for your commitment to the people of Wisconsin, the ride to reopen.

folks Derek van Orden is bragging about literally getting a participation trophy for driving to work That's all he did, you know, he could have flown to the Capitol He decided to ride his motorcycle.

He drove to work You know the work that he's been skipping for the better part of two months on a paid vacation and When he did finally show up to work it was to take a vote that would ensure your health insurance prices

go up because they did not feel like even negotiating some kind of middle ground between the premium tax supports that make health insurance affordable in this country versus eliminating them entirely.

But after the participation trophy has been awarded, there is still this to say that as part of the deal, quote unquote, to end the government shutdown, there will be a standalone vote on these premium health supports.

And the vote does not necessarily have to be to put them back to where they were, to where they are now.

It could be some kind of middle ground.

Will Republicans say that they want to seek out some middle ground here?

We'll talk to Courier Newsroom's Keva Keel about that in just a couple of moments.

And then coming up, we will have Greg Bach, I believe, joining us on Fridays for our daily history lesson.

Dr. Kristen Lierly will be along.

We'll be talking about how the New York Times called for a novel approach to abortion rights and abortion floor.

But make no mistake, that floor would quickly become the ceiling.

It would essentially become a de facto national abortion ban.

And Mike Clemens will be along to talk about sports heading into the weekend.

From the heart of America's Up North, live from Lake Wissota.

Thanks for making this the place to spend part of your mornings.

I'm Pat Krightlow.

This is the Civic Media Radio Network.

Joining us now on this Friday morning is Keva Keel, who is such a wonderful political editor for Career Newsroom and such an upstanding fellow, a proud citizen of the greater Philadelphia area.

He's not even gonna gloat about what the Eagles did to the Packers.

He's just so focused on his work, he's got no time to shame me.

Hello, Kea.

Hello, Pat.

Uh, yes, I will, I will, I will give you, uh, I will not shame you this one time.

You won't twist the knife.

We're already, we're already suffering enough here.

We gotta, we gotta move on.

All right.

Well, the country's gonna try to move on from the shutdown.

It's, it's gonna take a while.

I have not asked your view on this.

And so, I'm, I'm very curious to hear because I'm of the, the mind that this is still a fair debate to be had.

Is this a case of Democrats caved and they're going to be losers in the long run as a result or even though this was launched by a handful of Democratic senators, did Democrats, you know, on the whole win the message war because they've now proven that Trump will take food off your table and make your prices go up for health insurance and there's nothing you can say or do that will make Trump and the Republicans

Any more human and compassionate?

I think the answer is a little bit of both I think there is no doubt that they were winning Democrats were winning the political argument on the shutdown virtually every poll

Gathered during it showed that voters blame Republicans more and we're increasingly souring on Trump throughout the shutdown You know it turns out threatening to keep 42 million people hungry and fire a bunch of photo workers not so popular Especially while you're gutting the White House to build some gaudy ballroom None of that really people don't like that stuff

So I think Democrats were winning that fight.

They succeeded in elevating the health care fight to it being a national issue, which is what makes it all the more galling that these eight senators did cave, to be honest.

I don't think it's the majority of Democrats wanted this.

I think there were probably more than eight that did.

I think that speaks to sort of an existing still sclerotic institutionalized order in the Senate, particularly,

where you have a

lot of these.

The average age of these senators was who voted to open it was 70-something.

It's a lot of people who are retiring, a lot of older senators, and, you know, it's

I think emblematic of sort of the old guard of the party that still has some sway in the Senate, which doesn't really have a lot of turnover, but is increasingly being drummed out of the house.

And, you know, I understand their argument.

I disagree with it.

I think, you know, a lot of them are saying, you know, we, you know, it wasn't working.

Trump wasn't going to cave.

If the goal was to get Trump to cave, this was.

that, you know, he was, he's not going to cave, but you do make him own the fact that he wants to throw 40 million people off their food stamps, 20 million people off their health insurance.

That's what politics is.

And if you don't want to, you know, if your goal, if you want to protect people, I completely get that and I support that.

And that's a valid reason to vote to end the shutdown.

But you got to message it better than the way they messaged it.

You got to, you know, if

If the airline delays were part of it, you got to talk about that more.

I just think the way, one, if you're going to vote to reopen it, I can understand that.

I disagree with it.

But you got to be able to articulate your reasoning beyond just, oh, we failed.

I don't think that's a compelling argument.

Long term, do I think it's going to have an impact on Trump standing?

a little bit, but I think his standing is already so poor that and the party standing is already so poor that it's on the edges.

For Democrats, I think really what it'll do is it'll just advance further grassroots energy to topple Chuck Schumer to primary some of these old guard senators.

I think that's really the long-term impact of this, which if you're like me and believe that some of these folks have got to go, that's a positive thing.

If you're more institutional and more, for lack of a better term, centrist, you probably aren't loving that.

And thank you, by the way, for the word of the day and the episode title, the Sclerotic Senate.

I think that says it perfectly.

Thank you for capturing that.

Well, we've got to take it to the next step then.

And I have already admitted I may be accused of building this up too much.

But there will be this standalone vote now on the enhanced Obamacare premium tax credits.

And it would be easy to say, well, the Republicans are all going to hang together and this is going to be a big nothing burger.

But.

based on things like, well, some of the Republican defections on the Epstein files and the heat that they've been getting back home for, you know, for the shutdown, including the big jump in Obamacare premiums.

It is, I would say the odds aren't zero that there are enough Republicans that would say, well, if we can reestablish

the enhanced premium tax credits, but just not as high as they were, they'll take that half a loaf and maybe this will dull some of the price increase.

How rose colored are my glasses, Kia?

I think they're a little rose colored.

I mean, I think there's two different things.

I think, yes, there are, let's say, half a dozen Republican senators and probably a dozen Republican or so members of the House who want to see these renewed with

Probably with some tweaks.

I think they want you know, you see Susan Collins saying we need an income cap to get subsidies things like that Which you know to be clear the more you earn the less subsidy you get so like there's already a version of that but reforms okay, but There are not gonna be enough vote Republican votes for that in the house.

I just don't like Republican moderates barely exist They are a dying breed you have a handful of them

You have way more freedom caucus members.

And you're also not going to see Mike Johnson put a bill on the floor that only seven of his people support carried by mostly Democrats.

So there's that.

And then I do think, you know, we're already at mid-November, even if they pass something.

Is there time to get it implemented by January 1st?

I don't know.

I hope so.

But they're not going to pass anything until December, clearly, even if they do pass something.

So I'm a little more skeptical.

I think it's, you know, I think that was the bare minimum they were going to be willing to give Democrats was a vote in the Senate.

I think Democrats use that as a messaging vote.

Maybe I'm cynical.

Maybe something will happen.

But I just have very little faith that Republicans give a crap about problem solving.

Kia, thank you.

Have a great weekend.

YouTube Pat, thanks.

All right, we've got a big history lesson coming up for you next.

Truly A to Z, starting with Aaron Copeland, ending with Jay-Z.

That's coming up next.

I'm Pat Crightlow.

This is the Civic Media Radio Network.

It's time once again for today's history lesson on mornings with Pat Crankbow.

To all who've come to this happy place, welcome.

Ladies and gentlemen,

the Beatles.

That's one small step for man.

Well, I'm not a

crook.

You believe in miracles

yet?

You know, this depression is gonna be so great.

We'll be the ones eating the cats and the dogs.

That's gonna be fun.

Once again it is time to take another revealing peek back into history

We almost have a case where our wardrobe matches the music as Greg Bach joins us wearing get this folks a collared shirt Are you just mocking me now with the with the plaid collared shirts here?

Of course, that's how you took that one.

Just all about me, of course.

And not only was it about you, but like you made it about me making fun of you.

Yes, because that's what we do here.

We're all about the mockery.

But anyway, we look like we could almost belong to this music from Aaron Copeland.

This is a rodeo.

Aaron Copeland was born this day in 1900.

Referred to by his peers and critics as the Dean of American Music, Copeland's open, slowly changing harmonies, make up what many consider the sound of the American music, evoking the vast American landscape and pioneer spirit.

Compositions like Rodeo, and in other words, like this one, this is his fanfare for the common man.

Feel like I'm about to get on a space shuttle.

Yeah,

I feel like I'm about to win bronze Never has a more sweeping more epic song sounded more insulting in its title Yeah This is for you

weak ones Alicia puts up five will goes west wait.

What is that?

So Aaron Copeland born this day in 1900 passed away in 1990

On this day in 1908, Albert Einstein presented his quantum theory of light.

Here with more is Greg Bach.

It's very bright.

It's really hard to understand.

And in like 75 years time, they're not even going to believe it.

They're going to be like, is gravity even a thing?

And that was science

with Greg Bach.

I just knew if I just tossed it to him he would have that.

The correct answer is it proposes that light behaves as both a wave and a stream of particles called photons.

This theory explains that light energy is quantized meaning it exists in discrete packets and the energy of a single photon is directly proportional to its frequency.

Duh.

And speaking of quantum, about 75 years from now, a group called the Marvel Cinematic Universe is going to use that word way too much.

I don't know why I turned my Albert Einstein into like a Longshoreman.

I think I

just

want to avoid any offensive stereotypical accents.

So he went for the Longshoreman instead.

Yeah, yeah.

He's had too good for too long.

Yeah, that's right.

Let's go to another American music legend Ray Charles This version of his song that's been remade so many other times was the number one song this day 65 years ago in 1960

And

again I hear the audience saying could you just not talk down

We can just listen to Ray Charles for a while here.

Well, I'd go with that.

Well, I appreciate the previous gentleman in the music that he created.

When you want to talk about the American experience and the American everything, I feel like this music has to be a part of it.

Oh, yeah.

The soul of it all has to be a part of it.

And while I appreciate a good Western theme.

You need you need you need some of this

too.

You can't do a Mount Rushmore of American music and limited to four people I don't know what the number is But if you can put Aaron Copeland on there, but you got to put Ray Charles on there too.

You just do Happy anniversary government standoff and shutdown happy 30th anniversary to the government shutdown of 1995 when a budget standoff between

Republicans and Democrats in Congress forced the government to temporarily close national parks and museums.

What's past this prologue?

On this day in 1987, the number one album was the soundtrack to Dirty Dancing.

Now, dirty dancing of the movie was set in 1963, but the movie featured several modern, original songs like this one.

I've had the time of my life with Bill Medley and Jennifer Warren, Hungry Eyes by Eric Carmen and more.

Excuse me.

Yes, yes, yes.

Featuring She's Like the Wind, sung by Mr. Patrick Swayze.

Yes, yes, of course.

We can't forget.

Very important.

We can't forget that effort by the late Mr. Swayze.

Also in movie history today, this one might stir up a little trouble.

It was on this day in 2003 that love actually opened in theaters.

It had some musical moments for the purposes of this bit.

You had Hugh Grant dancing to the Point Your Sisters Jump.

You had Emma Thompson having a breakdown while Joni Mitchell sang both sides now in the background.

And everybody, not everybody, but so many people say this is like

One of those quintessential Christmas movie watch list items.

A, never seen it.

B, don't want to see it.

Especially when I hear how some of the characters behave in this.

It just sounds like it's a rip your heart out and stomp on it type of movie.

And it's

not my cup of tea.

It has garnered a whole bunch of controversy, not a lot to make it like, we can't play this anymore, but there are definitely too many think pieces about it.

And I believe that for some people, that movie means a lot.

It holds a place in their heart.

Cool.

For some people like yourself, you don't want to see it for your reasons.

Great.

I just feel like also when people start to talk about it and pontificate, I'm like, let's, no.

We can talk about something else.

Exactly.

Here's a different controversy about the movies Moana the animated Disney film including the rock premiered on this day in 2016 Why is it controversial?

because I have a granddaughter, three years old, who is all about Disney princesses, loves all the princess costumes.

But if you tell her Moana is a princess, she will stomp her feet and cry and she will throw a fit because Moana is not a princess because Moana is stronger, braver, doesn't rely on all the things that I know that my daughter taught her about.

So in her mind, Moana is not a princess.

She's even better than a princess.

I would say the young lady from Brave.

I can't remember her name now.

Oh, yeah.

She would she very very much Bucked the system of that as well.

So

I love that in the movies now It's not like oh, I'm sleeping beauty.

I'll just wait here for a man to kiss me, you know Yeah, we've definitely evolved in our you know Heroine characters and good on

that.

Ah, yes meridia meridia from brave.

I like that movie.

I enjoyed that movie a lot Now they're doing a live-action Moana version and no one asked for that.

No, no nobody wait what?

Oh,

yeah, yeah, just just go with Moana to don't You don't everything doesn't need to be live action.

There's charm.

There's charms for animation.

I tell you

Also on the birthday list today singer songwriter you ever know you just can't add anything more.

That's the cherry on top

Parker give me a good old fashion get off my lawn.

No

Point made.

Point to Hufflepuff.

Let's move on.

Singer, songwriter, Stephen Bishop.

I'm a

Gryffindor.

It's 74 today.

Stephen

Bishop is 74.

It's been a while.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You have to really be looking for one of the mellow, oldie stations.

like the kind I probably have welded to my radio dial.

You're saying, hey, wait, Pat, Steven Bishop is 74 today.

Rapper Joseph Simmons, a.k.a.

Run of Run DMC is 61.

Born this day in Hollis, Queens, New York, you could have played music from there.

I could have.

Good.

But I think we've learned Pat's DNA.

He's going to play the Schmaltzi 70s tune every time.

I think, you know, for as much as we talk about rock on this show.

I was going to say, there's a

reason there's a captain's hat right behind me here.

This

might be the quintessential mellow gold example.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

It's smooth.

Yeah.

Ooh.

Onto 1992 now, where the theme song to the Aaron Spelling TV drama, The Heights, hit number one, it was done by Jamie

Walters.

Aren't

you like having a flood now of all the TV opens from like Beverly Hills 90210 and and what Halle McBeal and all the other shows that they were all party

with

this party of five all the angst of being in your early to mid 20s

My friend Jessica and I, who I love like a sister, we bring up this show and this theme song more than we talk about our own family members.

Really?

Yeah, it's because it's so schmaltzy as you put it, because it's about a group of people who are in a band and they're in a terrible band that should never go anywhere.

It's just, they're not good.

Those individuals all have what my parents called causeless anger.

Causeless anger, I like that.

I just remember in the 80s, there was

We were in our 20s and ABC had this successful primetime show called 30 Something.

And

Sherry and I were in our 20s and we loved to mock that show because again, all the angst, all the drama over what, you know?

We realized fast forward now when we are in our late 40s, 50s, we're like, you know what?

That show had actually nailed it.

When we look back at our own 30s now, we're like, oh, that was actually a preview of coming attractions.

I guess we should have paid attention.

Oh well.

Up to 1998, where Lauren Hill became the first female rap solo artist to hit number one.

On this day in 1957 Hank Aaron with the Milwaukee Braves became the National League's most valuable player.

On this day in 2003 Jay-Z released the black album with classics including 99 Problems and this.

Now

one more point one more one more item here and it addresses something that we talked about just yesterday and that was Michael Jackson's thriller and we were looking at the release dates and we're like

it seemed weird that it was all all the stuff was happening after Halloween wouldn't have been a Halloween you know premiere well turns out on this day in 1983 so November 14th 1983 Michael Jackson's 14 minute film thriller debuted in Los Angeles it became the most popular video in MTV history and it just kind of reinforced what I was saying is back then the early 80s Halloween was not nearly

the holiday it is now it was literally just up send the kids out with a bag and

they'll

go get some candy and I'm not going to say Thriller started it because obviously it came out after Halloween but I think it kind of paved the way for others to kind of turn Halloween into more of a media and adult event and not just not just those kids and their milk duds you know

Yeah.

To which everybody says, what's a milk dog?

A candy designed specifically to destroy your teeth.

Oh my gosh, yes.

Yeah,

yeah.

Oh man.

Let's see.

Parker's on the national big calendar here.

It is national teddy bear day.

Are you a big fan of teddy bears, Pat?

I

didn't have one if that's what you're asking.

Parker.

Parker.

Tone.

Tone.

Have a good day, Greg.

Hey, Pat, answer the question here.

Are you a fan of teddy bears?

What do you like?

You like the president?

You like the Graham?

What do you like?

You like teddy bears?

I'm creating my own fun.

I need it.

I know.

What else you got?

It's also National Pickle Day.

Yes, it is, to which we say dill, garlic, spicy.

Thank you.

Bread and butter, please leave.

Oh, and finally,

operating room nurse day.

Yes.

Definitely had to get that one out there.

class again all the best to all the OR nurses and everybody who makes uh makes it work there in the OR all right Greg Bach is here as part of today's history lesson and coming up in the next hour we will have our week in review panel I'm Pat Crite low this is the Civic Media radio

network I'm only

a little worried

Oh, welcome back.

Greg Bakas here as well at 652 and we will get to some entertainment news in just a moment.

First to reminder, our question of the day deals with your local ice cream shop and where do you think folks ought to go for a cone or a Sunday next time they're passing through your hometown?

You can call or text us 855-75-CIVIC 855-752-4842 and let us know and then next week we're going to be talking about

What did I say?

Fish fries as part of the locals love section of the Up North News daily newsletter.

Greg, if we can talk about retirements, plural for a moment here.

Oh man, that sounds amazing.

Doesn't it though?

And sadly, neither one of these involved me.

But of course, we, you know, we've talked here about Jane McNair, you know, calling it a career after, what'll it be, 45 years?

44 years.

I'm gonna say

45.

I'm calling it a cool 45.

It's

a better number than 44.

Round it up.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And so that'll be December.

12th is when she's wrapping things up and nobody deserves it more.

Except maybe on that same plane one week earlier on December 5th, mild co-anchor Judy Clark will be retiring from WEAU channel 13 after also about 40 years in the business, including 35 of them, I believe at TV 13.

And Judy and Jane

are about as real as it gets.

I mean, whether it's radio or TV, the broadcast industry needs more James, it needs more Judy's they are.

They are absolutely heavenly to work with.

They are genuine, but they don't put up with any BS from the boys.

And I'm just here to say that they're there are two women that I've had the pleasure to work with who do not enjoy retirement.

There's nobody who

deserves an enjoyable retirement more than those two.

And the fact that they're retiring within a week of each other is kind of symbolic for me to say this is this is how you go out.

You go out on top and good for them.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

Well, congratulations to your friend, Judy.

Yeah.

And we're gonna be having some fun with Jane over the next few weeks.

I mean, the last two weeks of her time here, essentially the first two weeks of December, we'll be having on great guests and having great chats and taking some

Trips down memory lane and maybe there'll be a few surprises.

I don't know.

You'll just have to tune in 9 a.m.

11 a.m.

Every day Monday through Friday here on the civic media radio network Just I can't tell you what's gonna happen.

It's a surprise.

Okay.

Well, I'll do it.

I'll do it You've talked me into it

because it's national pickle day.

I'll put you in a pickle You gotta decide between going to

work

and listening

to Matt there on air on the civic media radio network.

There you go Entertainment news coming our way from one Parker

Olson.

Yes, sir.

It is Are you familiar with to Tom Felton is that?

No, okay.

Greg is nodding his head.

Thankfully.

Okay.

Expelliarmus.

Yes.

He played Draco Malfoy in a

Harry Potter.

Yes.

And he has a

character didn't know the actor.

Okay.

He's returned to his role because there is a play of her.

Yes, the Harry

Potter play

on Broadway.

Yes, first child.

Yep.

My daughter, my daughter, a younger daughter, huge Harry Potter fan.

And she'd seen it on Broadway a couple of years back.

So now he's coming back playing his, his character from the film.

Yes, he is

now playing him as an older as I was gonna say yes, that'd be like I mean that'd be like who's who's a who played Harry Potter Daniel Radcliffe that'd be a Daniel Radcliffe coming back to do it and and being at Hogwarts trying to patch yourself off as a high school freshman Professor

Snape I got a question about potions Hello,

hello

youths.

Yeah Well, I think this is all just about by the way, I think this is all just a lead up to

reboot Harry Potter.

Oh,

when they

when they are when they are of the age in real life that they were playing at the end of the seventh movie or the eighth movie so they can do a third wizarding war.

Oh, well, there you

go.

That's what I believe.

Oh, I was thinking it was just a rebuild type because they are remaking it into a TV series.

Yeah, they're redoing

the TV.

They're

doing the movies into yeah, into into season long shows.

Every book is

going to be an

I'm not going to lie.

I'm a little interested because I want to see what from the book they cut for the movies that they'll put in the TV shows.

But also, I don't want to give J.K.

Rowling a single dime of

money.

No, I don't I don't I don't want to either.

And yet, I mean, Game of Thrones translated, you know, the books were fabulous.

The TV show was fabulous.

I just, you know, to a point, I'm just I'm a little hesitant.

I'm a little nervous about how they would turn out.

But I think eventually what will happen is that they are going to read they are going

to not reboot it, they're going to continue the movies into another set of movies where it's a third wizarding war.

OK, so Star Trek, where the sequels just never stop coming.

Let's see, you got another story for us there, Parker?

Yeah, Dave Burgies, the leader of the Champs, was famous for the song Tequila.

He has passed away.

Yes, he was lead just this week.

He was 90.

the champs with Tequila.

Do you have a clip of that handy?

I do not, unfortunately.

No,

I did not think that far

ahead.

Would you like me to sing it for you?

No, we've given you two minutes to find tequila so we can end the segment on that kind of a note.

Oh, I got

tequila right

now.

What do you think's under the desk?

Wait a minute.

That's when we bring Sharita Booker in from North News, who's a resident tequila expert.

Yes, we can totally do that.

And what's the southern note?

You have your Disney Plus to start having AI-generated content.

Oh, no.

Yeah.

Gross.

I believe that they're going to be shorts.

of their own characters.

Yeah, they're calling it their most significant move since launching in 2019.

So what do they do?

They just like say to an AI generated computer, make a cartoon featuring Olaf and the Seven Dwarfs.

Go.

Yes.

Yes, that's exactly what it's

going to do.

Oh, no.

OK.

Yeah.

Well, that leads to this question.

AI generated Disney combos you'd like to see I've given you I've given you all off in the seven dwarfs you take it and run there are no limits What what Disney combo a Disney mashup?

You can

even use all the band stuff

too.

Yes.

Oh god.

I was just thinking What Star Wars is technically Disney now?

Yes, it is.

Yeah, he walks with the seven dwarves

Where where can we relegate Jar Jar Binks?

OK,

don't get me started on

that.

I have a lot of thoughts on

that topic.

So

I don't have time today.

All

right.

Don't harsh on him.

OK.

All right.

We'll come back to that one.

We clearly need to reexamine.

And there's there's Tequila.

Greg Bach, thank you so much.

Have a great weekend.

You too, guys.

Visit with you.

All right.

Thank you.

Our Week in Review panel is standing by to go through the headlines of the past seven days.

We will do that after the news.

I'm Pat Cricklow.

This is the Civic Media Network.

Across Wisconsin on Civic Media, you're listening to Mornings with Pat Krightlow, powered by Up North News.

Now, from our Lake Wissota studio, here's the founding editor of Up North News, Pat Krightlow.

Hey, good morning.

Welcome back.

Nice to have you here up north on a Friday morning, November 14th, 2025.

I'm Pat Crightlow here in Chippewa Falls.

Parker Olson producing things down in Madison Studio A2.

Our Week in Review panel is standing by as well.

Our question of the day comes from our Up North News Daily newsletter, our Friday Locals Love section.

Locals love their local ice cream shop.

So

Who do you want to give a shout out to next time folks are in town and saying they'd like a Sunday or a cone?

You can use that Civic Media app to send us a text message.

You can get in the comments sections of YouTube or Facebook.

And of course you can text us at 855-75-CIVIC, 855-752-4842.

All right, a little shift in things now on Fridays.

By popular demand, the Week in Review panel is starting a few minutes earlier here, so we appreciate coming to the program at this early hour of a Friday morning, former U.S.

Attorney Jim Santel and journalist Mark Jacob and Jennifer Schulze.

And lest I forget, Mark Jacob over at StopThePresses.News has an article on how news coverage eases us into tyranny.

We're going to talk a bit about that.

Jennifer Schulze has indistinct chatter on Substack.

Search for at news Jennifer and Mr. Santel can be heard Saturday mornings live at 9 a.m.

with Amicus a law review replayed on Sunday mornings across the Civic Media Radio Network.

Good morning all.

Good morning.

Good

morning.

Good morning.

Nice to have you all here.

Mark we're gonna we're gonna start with.

journalism and the way that it used to do.

What's the word?

I'm looking at facts.

Facts were really cool.

Yeah, I know.

So novel and would and would would be merciless on politicians who did not respect the truth.

This is an official post from the White House Twitter account.

It says

tariff revenues, smash records, slashing the US deficit by over 25%, shrinking government spending, downsizing bloated bureaucracy and unleashing a wave of American jobs and give Twitter this much credit.

They now have the, you know, the community notes section where people note.

the deficit was not slash by 25%.

It was at best 2%.

And then it gives some other fact checking as well.

But you know, this was put up by somebody who

has a little experience in journalism and politics and says, I'm used to spin and rhetorical sleights of hand, but I will never get used to presidents and white houses completely fabricating data that anyone can look up and check.

I'm old enough to remember when policy staff would resign rather than participate in falsifying data.

Weren't those good times, Mark?

Yeah, yeah, maybe when people at you didn't have professional liars as press secretaries I mean when they realized that their job was to provide information for the American people rather than life or would be dictator You know it that it really does disturb me that the news media in general mainstream media seems to have really accepted the idea that the President lies all the time and it and that's just not news anymore

You know, it's just, you know, put them on TV, let them lie, and then go on to something else.

And I would love to see a rule in media organizations that every time they broadcast a lie by somebody, they have to fact check it.

If they're not going to fact check it, they can't broadcast it.

And if that was an internal policy, we would be much better served by the media.

Which Jennifer again was just that's just what you do and now it's just kind of excused by saying Trump says blah blah blah blah blah rather than Trump falsely says or

anything like that You hit on a key point there Pat the rules have changed It's I would say it's the Trump rule as long as it has those two words in front of it Trump says

journalists and their news organizations can sort of back off from more traditional reporting, right?

We've done our job, Trump says.

Now you should know, audience, that that means it might not be true, but we're not going to weigh it in too heavily on that.

We're going to let you figure it out.

Oh, boy.

Right.

But you see this, you know, Jim Santel, even in the courts, we have talked about this when the administration has made claims either before the Supreme Court or at lower court levels.

And they are bringing cases against people like, you know, Jim Comey and others.

And judges are essentially calling them out now and saying that's there's nothing there on which you can base.

a case.

It's become a regular part of our court system as well.

So many illustrations of that, even just yesterday in a district court presided over by a judge named Cameron Curry.

She is brought in in connection with the Comey.

and Latisha James prosecutions, a combined hearing.

The judge is trying to get to the bottom of whether or not the interim US attorney has the authority to bring this case.

And she's asking about what's going on in the grand jury.

They're missing minutes, that sort of thing.

And the judge plainly is heading down the road, probably, stunningly, but appropriately, maybe dismissing these cases.

And along the way, when the judge identifies some of these problems, the attorney for your justice department says to her, well,

All of this was just a paperwork error.

And that doesn't go over well with the judge.

That may not be an out and out lie, but it's awfully darn close.

It's just the latest example.

Once again, in the courts, as you just said, Pat, we are also just making things up, misrepresenting what's going on and not being honest and simply saying, you know what, this was not done well.

But it doesn't rise to the level, for example, of a dismissal status here.

Instead, we just make things up.

But judges are indeed, including the judge yesterday, identifying these problems and saying, not in my courtroom.

Or, if instead of a line, we're just lowering the bar.

Yes.

You know, and how much lower can we get than Megan Kelly yesterday talking about the Epstein case and, you know, these rumors that Donald Trump may have been involved with teenage girls and Megan Kelly's views.

Well, yeah, they're 15.

It's not like they were eight.

I mean, Mark, it's not like they were eight is not a campaign slogan I would want to run on.

Right, right.

And it's, well, we're not sure it's, you know,

child molestation because it's someone 15.

So, you know, so that's, you know, okay.

I mean, frankly, you know, obviously that is statutory rape in, you know, even if there's supposed consent, there's no such thing as consent with children.

So

what are you talking about?

But she's, I mean, this is a prominent person, Megan Kelly, trying to apologize for Jeffrey Epstein.

I mean, in order to somehow help Trump to where his, you know, his best friend

who was raping children isn't so bad because he was only raping 15 year olds, not five year olds.

And she says it really that plainly.

Go back and look at it, audience.

It's insane what she's saying and how she's trying to justify the molestation of children.

And Jennifer, again, I know we've talked about this before.

We don't know exactly who did what.

And so I'm hesitant to bring up people like Bill Clinton or

Bill

Gates or anybody else.

But let's just say whoever it is for the record, if it is a Bill Clinton or Bill Gates, we don't care.

They should be prosecuted too.

So why do we have a president?

who, for somebody who claims he has nothing to hide, working so hard to hide the details.

Well, Pat, because the details are really ugly for him.

That's the only takeaway I think by now we can have, right?

I mean, my understanding of what was released this week were still not the Epstein files, but emails provided by his estate to the Democrats on the Oversight Committee.

So we are still minus

you know a lot of information and let's just I think agree that the information that came out this week was pretty gross and I

I can't even imagine, you know, what else is is hiding in those files.

No.

And so we now have we saw the release of emails, Jim.

But and again, I know you work mostly with courts rather than Congress.

But I'm sure you've been following the note that there are now enough signatures on a discharge petition in the House of Representatives that would force a vote where the House could compel the Department of Justice to release everything that it has after redacting things like victims names and such and and stop.

holding them stop covering them up.

Jim, I guess, am I explaining that right?

And even if the House were to vote, I would imagine that Trump's Department of Justice would still have some delay tactics they try to put in place.

Well, absolutely.

Patty, you've got it.

I think you've got it just right.

Again, I'm not a congressional expert.

That's my understanding.

And it once again raises a couple of points.

One is that the Department of Justice has these materials could do it tomorrow, could release it tomorrow.

The positive thing about this is, oh, look, the United States Congress is exercising some oversight.

That's what it's supposed to do.

Wow, isn't that different, right?

Admittedly in this high visibility matter.

And second, the follow-up question, kind of a variation on what you just suggested is, the president gets a directive now, a legal directive from the Congress.

Let's just stop him from simply saying, Pam, don't comply.

Don't do this.

And again, she gets hauled before.

Maybe she gets fond and contempt.

Maybe, maybe.

But this is the constitutional crisis we are in when one branch of government says, you've got to do this to another branch.

And the answer is no.

And this could be another one of those situations, if indeed, as both Mark and Jennifer are indicating, those files are so incendiary, it's worth it to suffer contempt rather than to have this released in the public domain for all time.

Who knows what's going to happen, but a lot of lessons coming out of what's happening right now.

So Mark, do you feel like there's momentum that builds for more?

things to be released that we haven't seen yet or are we just due for another round of delays and people will just get throw up their hands and walk away.

Well I guess I'm encouraged by the fact that this is still an issue because in the the whole time Trump has been you know in a politician last decade he

It's done horrible things, you know, the McCain stuff, the making, you know, fun of a, you know, disabled person.

I mean, you just, there's a long line of stuff that he's done that's just been a one day, two day, three day story.

So this is really sticking to him and it should because it's horrible and any decent person would be appalled by this.

And I don't know how much more is going to happen in Congress because, you know, they'll have a vote and they'll say, you know, they should release Epstein files.

Then it'll go to the Senate.

That'll be interesting to make Senator Thune look like the bad guy then because he'll probably try to put a brick on it and make it go nowhere in the Senate.

And if that happens, you know, and Trump could veto it too.

So I don't think that you're going to get, I don't think you're going to get a bill passed in Congress or a resolution or whatever that says that, hey, this has got to happen.

But it's going to keep on being talked about.

I mean, nobody thinks that this is, you know, if you look at the polls,

It's 75% or 80% of people say that the Epstein file should be released.

And Republicans are saying it too.

So it's not going to go away, and it shouldn't go away.

And it needs to dog him forever until he does this.

And the other good thing about it is that all the other horrible sexual things that Trump has done, all the predatory behavior, it reminds people of all of that too.

And Jennifer, that becomes part of the focus of journalists' work is not to get caught up in the X's and those of politics, but to keep focus on right versus wrong.

And I think we've seen that throughout the coverage of the Epstein files.

I mean, it rises to a everybody's covering it in weeks like this.

But there has been steady coverage throughout of this story.

Like Mark said, it's one of those things that thankfully is not a one and done because Trump has successfully manipulated the media

to move on to the very next thing and not dig into so many things that he's done.

And this is one of those where there are people that are not going to let it go.

They're just not.

No, and nor should they.

Jennifer Scholesi has indistinct chatter on Substack.

Mark Jacob has the Stop the Press's newsletter.

And Jim Santel is the host of Amicus on the Civic Media Radio Network.

He'll be back at it tomorrow morning at 9 a.m.

Reminder, we've got plenty of sports this weekend as well.

You've got the Badger football team playing at Indiana.

Coverage begins tomorrow at 9 a.m.

And the Packers play the New York Giants.

Coverage begins 10 a.m.

on Sunday.

I'm Pat Krightlo from Up North News.

This is the Civic Media Radio Network.

So many questions we are so full of questions for you add up north news you can sign up for a daily newsletter up north news wi.com filled with Wisconsin features today is Locals love the section that talks about

What you like to see in your hometown and what you like to brag about this week, it is about local ice cream shops.

And then on Sundays, my newsletter with more of a political bent has a question of the week.

And that question this week has been about bipartisan legislation that would legalize marijuana use in Wisconsin.

Do you support that?

Do you feel it should remain mostly illegal?

Do you feel like there's some middle ground for medicinal purposes?

If you wanna be among the first to see our question of the week, then sign up for our Sunday morning newsletter.

And you can do all that, by the way, at our new webpage, upnorthnewswi.com, slash mornings.

Let me say that again, upnorthnewswi.com slash mornings and you can get to my website stories, you can get links to subscribe to the show on Spotify or Apple or watch us on YouTube, upnorthnewswi.com slash mornings.

All right, let's roll back to our Week in Review panel here with former U.S.

Attorney Jim Santel, as well as Jennifer Schulze and Mark Jacob.

Jennifer and Mark have covered news in the Chicago area, of course, for a long time.

Other folks who have covered the news in Chicago for a long time and have since retired have penned a letter to the editor.

And Jennifer, this really...

caught my eye, this letter to the editor in the Chicago Tribune signed by, I didn't get the final count, so more like a dozen different Chicago journalists who've all said, look, we're, we're retired, but you know, you've trusted us before, you should trust us now.

Having the military in the streets is not normal and we should not normalize this.

It's a group of broadcast journalists.

I worked with most of them and many of them are my friends and former colleagues who

were so motivated by what's going on here in Chicago that they did something I think is really rather unusual for a group of journalists to come out of retirement and say, you know, trust us, this is really bad.

I've talked to quite a few of them since then and to a person, they're just so horrified about what is happening in Chicago and they love Chicago so much.

And I will also say many of them, if not all of them,

are marquee names in Chicago broadcast journalism that have enormous credibility and respect from the community.

And so when they say, you need to pay attention to this, I think a lot of.

I think people are already paying attention.

But this, I think, just adds to that.

I mean, the names that jumped out for me, Ron Majors, Carol Maureen, Tom Skilling, Chris Bury, who people know from ABC News, Walter Jacobson, Sherman Kaplan, on and on.

Mark, let me read an excerpt of it and then get your thoughts where they said they write, please trust us now when we say that what is happening in the Chicago area is wrong.

Let us be clear.

We support the lawful apprehension and deportation of undocumented immigrants with criminal records.

The president says he's

after the worst of the worst, but that's not what's happening.

It's gone way beyond that.

People are presumed guilty until proven innocent.

That's not law enforcement.

It's terror.

This dragnet seems to be based on racism and is snaring citizens of color, documented immigrants, and people who have committed no serious crimes.

Your neighbor, friend, coworker, babysitter, and landscaper, people whose work ethic and honesty have contributed to the city for years.

And Mark, I know that there's still plenty of, you know,

President Trump supporters in Chicago, but I dare say, I think these people are speaking for the vast majority of Chicago land residents.

I know they are.

And the thing, this whole terrorizing people in Chicago by the masked armed thugs of Homeland Security has, I think, unified Chicago in a lot of ways.

Granted, I'm sure there are some people who, you know, are, you know, cheering this on, but

Not the people I'm talking to and not people, not my neighbors.

I mean, people are more angry at the Trump regime than ever before about this.

And you're seeing, Pat, you see these journalists, by the way, this is not the kind of thing they do.

And they treasure being objective about things.

So them coming out with an opinion.

is just it goes against their nature, but they felt compelled to do it because of the horrors they're seeing.

You know, tear-gassing people dragging a daycare worker out of school and stuff like that.

I mean, there's just been so many horrible incidents that they just were appalled.

And in Chicago, you're seeing a lot of civic groups, civic leaders who normally wouldn't get involved in anything that looked like politics coming out and stating that they just cannot stand this.

The only good thing about this is that it's been a unifying moment for Chicago

Jim there's so much legally we could talk about this about you know Whether the president has the power to do this and so forth what I'm especially interested though in is the folks who are Documented and or our citizens who have been arrested and detained

Are we going to see, it might be post-Trump, but are we going to see years of litigation where these folks can sue for some kind of damages?

Or is any citizen who's like rounded up by these folks, are they going to have no legal recourse and this is just where we are right now?

The answer is yes, and yes, they should be pursuing these kinds of claims.

There is a thing still in America called false arrest.

If you're out there making an arrest based upon a lack of probable cause,

other bases for doing those kinds of things.

The difficulty, of course, is you need to go into a federal court, maybe a state court to get those interests vindicated.

Beyond that, we know that there are broader issues here.

And again, the Supreme Court making decisions like this stunning decision coming out of Los Angeles when there's a judge named Mame Frimpong who says, you got to have a reasonable suspicion before you can arrest people, can't just detain people because of the color of their skin.

And what does our Supreme Court say?

Supreme Court says, we're reversing that.

pulling that back.

We don't know exactly what the new standard is, but some real mixed messages candidly from the Supreme Court, not from other courts, not from the district court judges right there in Chicago, but the Supreme Court telling people, well, maybe in fact, some of this law enforcement stuff in the outrages that we're seeing.

maybe just maybe it's okay.

That has a chilling effect on people would otherwise go into court and say, I want to push back on this.

And let's be clear, the mixed message is coming from the Constitution versus what these justices are saying.

Okay, there's no mixed message from the Constitution, but other people who are mixing it up and it's a conversation we are going to continue with Jennifer Sholes, Mark Jacob and Jim Santel.

Coming up on the other side of the Midwest Farm Report here and more, I'm Pat Kratler from Up North News.

Again, sign up for our newsletters at Up North News.

Follow us on social media at Up North News WI.

We'll be back here up north.

Nice to have you back here at 7.35 on this Friday morning.

Our Week in Review panel is here.

Jennifer Schulze, Mark Jacob, and Jim Santel, a former U.S.

attorney.

And let's talk about name changes.

Some name changes, you know, they're rather benign.

You've got Up North News Radio that becomes mornings with Pat Krightlow.

All right, vanity project.

You've also got, you've got the...

Then you've got the ones that are kind of useless.

Is anybody next week going to be referring to watching a program on MS now?

No.

Because tomorrow it won't be MSNBC anymore in, and again, personal opinion only, one of the dumbest name changes that I've seen in the media in the recent past.

And then- Why

do you think that Pat?

because the the MS in MSNBC stood for Microsoft.

It was originally a partnership between Microsoft and NBC.

Microsoft has long since left the partnership.

Why leave the MS in there?

And why now?

Now is one of those cliche things.

Jennifer, back me up on this broadcast cliches.

You know, the news now everything is

now live.

Future is now.

Yes.

I live in Chicago, as you know, where the Sears Tower will always be.

And

the John Hancock building from Milwaukee.

I always store forward to it as the John Hancock building.

It's

the Sears Tower.

It will always be MSNBC.

They can dance around with different things.

They should have done a better job with a better name.

Yes.

That's just my two

cents.

Yeah.

But I bring up the name changes because of the metaphor of the week is the way social media has jumped all over Pete Hegseth, the secretary of defense, because it's still the Department of Defense, but

putting, having a big ceremony as he put the screws into a sign that changes the Department of Defense to the Department of War.

And Mark, the, the, the metaphors were wonderful.

Just the uselessness of, or it really is a metaphor for the Trump administration, changing the name on something, changing the sign out front, but everything else is still the same.

Right.

Right.

I actually feel.

I'm gonna be contrarian today.

I actually feel like it makes a difference that they call it the war department because it because defense means that you actually are only gonna fight somebody if you're protecting yourself and The war department really makes it is more on-brand if you're going to blow up, you know fishermen in the Caribbean or you're going to like you're gonna attack Nigeria over, you know over Attacks against Christians there

And so I think I mean the weird thing is that Trump like campaigned on the fact that he didn't want he didn't want to go into wars But since he's been president he seems to be really into war

I mean, he's been threatening everyone.

He wants to attack Greenland.

I mean, you name it, he wants to attack it.

Well, Jennifer, that takes us right into a headline in this morning's New York Times.

I wanted to ask you about the headline.

This is so classic times.

America first.

Some Trump supporters worry that's no longer the case.

President Trump has been dining with billionaires and has taken a keen interest in crises overseas, leading to fears that he is drifting away from his more populous stances.

I'm shocked, Jennifer, shocked to read

that there's billionaires in the room that