Big Bucks and a Big Election for Small Business (Hour 2)

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This is Up North News Radio.

Now, live from our Lake Minnesota studio, here's the founding editor of Up North News, Pat Breitler.

Good morning, welcome back to Up North News Radio on a bash at Lee, Wisconsin brought to you by Courier Newsroom and carried by our friends here on the Civic Media Radio Network at 7 0 6 on this Tuesday morning, March 25th.

Nice to have you along.

Coming up in just a little bit, we will be hearing from a meteorologist, Brittany Merleau.

Then we're going to visit with Lucy Ritzman, one of my Courier Newsroom colleagues who writes a newsletter that tracks online spending, digital spending in election races like the Wisconsin Supreme Court race.

So we'll learn all about with the digital.

advertising landscape has been like for people who thought they were escaping the TV ads for the Supreme Court election, but guess again, online.

And then in the next half hour, we will talk to Richard Trent, the National Executive Director for Main Street Alliance, a group of small businesses around the country that

have a different agenda than big corporate businesses and so they're very active in legislatures and in Congress and we'll find out what small businesses are looking for which are usually much more in line with what their employees are looking for as well.

So that's all coming up.

But first it's time for our break into spring statewide text-to-win contest from Civic Media.

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Greg, this is the music for, is this Tic Tac Do for

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Oh, yeah.

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All right, that's enough of that.

Let's figure out what this hour's key word is.

Here's what you got to text in for $100 cash.

The word is bird.

Bird is the word.

B-I-R-D, bird.

Text that in to be eligible for this hour's prize of $100 cash you have until $7.59.

To text that in, somebody's gonna win $100 this hour, so why not you?

Then your next chances today are at 11 a.m., 1 p.m., and 4 p.m., so good luck.

The word is bird.

Brittany Merleau is here now to tell us about a forecast that, I mean, we're still doing the teens and the 20s for lows here, Brittany.

No bueno.

No, it's five degrees and manatewish waters and to go and Merrill five degrees.

That's it.

This is this is not does not good.

Good morning from Tigerton Rob says it's clear and 14.

There are slippery spots along the roads from the blowing and drifting snow we had yesterday.

I love this one.

He says here since wasa had its first 70 degree day on March 4th wasas had 13 inches of snow.

ever since.

Yeah, that's who I live here.

That's, uh, I was going to say that might be why the Snow Queen is here because she's, she's loving that.

Oh yeah.

Let's see.

Wausau, uh, Rob goes on to write, says, for the first time since 1989, there's been more snow in March than October through February combined.

13.3 from October through February 16 inches in March.

He says I'm into weather history from the newspapers.

They always have that looking back section of the weather events from a year ago.

And

this time 45 years ago it was cold.

And Rob's tic-tac-do is his favorite game show and he was a kid with, of course, Wink, Martindale, best game show host name ever.

Yeah.

So, so what do what do we got to do, Brittany, to bust out of these teens and twenties for low temperatures?

We actually need some clouds and we actually need another system to bring in some warmth.

So we don't really have the clouds coming our way, which is kind of nice.

I needed the sunshine.

It was too dark this weekend.

So we are looking at clear skies today.

A bunch of sunshine.

There are a few clouds this morning by the state line, but those will get out of here in no time.

Now we could see late tonight, some spotty showers swipe the western edge of the state, but that is nothing major, just some spotty sprinkles.

And of course, highs today, if you have snow on the ground, you're only gonna get to the mid to upper 30s, so northeast Wisconsin, that's what we're gonna expect.

Otherwise, if you don't have snow on the ground, you'll probably hit the mid to upper 40s today.

especially in places southwest.

And of course, as we go through tomorrow, we are looking at more rain chances by night pushing through the state.

Temperatures continue to warm all throughout the state will be in the mid forties to mid fifties.

And we'll hold that for Thursday as well.

All ahead of rain moving in this weekend.

Unfortunately, it looks like a very wet Friday, Saturday, and then Sunday.

The system wants to turn into a winch remix, creating icy conditions, especially north in the state, but it does swing that cold air south too.

So kind of a repeat of what we saw last weekend in our way again.

These are not the repeats I want.

I

want the repeats of the seventies, near 80, those kinds of things.

Um,

It's our second winter.

We're almost there to the real spring.

I was going to say,

yeah, this is the one that breaks you.

And then

finally,

finally it arrives.

Sorry, Brittany, thank you very much.

Have a great day.

Appreciate

it.

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Head over to upnorthnewswi.com and sign up there.

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That's finally coming.

Wisconsin is just a week away from finally being done with elections for the year.

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Let's bring in Lucy Ritzman now, one of my colleagues from Courier Newsroom, who tracks digital ad spending online.

because it's about so much more than TV and radio ads and direct mail.

There's a whole different set of platforms out there.

Lucy, good morning.

How are you?

Good morning.

Thanks for having me.

I miss Wisconsin every day, but maybe not the springtime

as much.

Not at this time of year is a little unique, shall we say.

This is what we this is what we endure to appreciate spring that much more.

And we also have to endure, you know, the spring elections that come up.

And as you know, these are big races for

State Supreme Court for State Superintendent.

There are school referendums.

There are local offices.

There's a constitutional amendment.

Just so much to track.

And by the way, folks, if you want to know what's on your ballot, if you want to know where to vote, if you want to know how to register, head to myvote.wi.gov to learn more.

So, Lucy, can you give a little background on FWIW for what it's worth, the newsletter that you work on, and what you do, any importance of tracking digital spending?

Yeah, totally.

So it started because we wanted to provide more transparency, both for folks who are thinking of maybe, you know, buying advertising themselves and just for people to know, like who is funding all the things that are popping up when they're on Facebook, when they're on YouTube, etc.

So we specifically track Meadow, which is Facebook and Instagram.

And for people's awareness, you can place an ad on both or one or the other.

We also track Google, which owns YouTube, Snapchat and Twitter.

Last year we all

for the election attract TikTok content.

So that was a little different.

We were looking at organic content on paid media.

And this year we're looking more specifically at YouTube content since it was such a major factor in the elections last year.

So yeah, I think people are aware, perhaps, when they're scrolling their feeds.

But I'll be here to confirm it.

People are spending millions and millions and millions of dollars year over year with that number only growing to control and put their advertising in your feeds.

And it's impactful marketing.

Obviously, a lot of times those ads lead away with just one click.

If you're trying to get people to sign your petition, if you're trying to get people to donate to your campaign, it's a very impactful form of marketing.

And I'm sure you all

being absolutely blanketed by now, as you were saying, Pat, it's madness that the whole rest of the country goes through massive elections in November.

And then pretty much every other state has primaries in a few months.

But Wisconsin, you guys are in the full swing of it.

So we have been taking a very specific look at who is advertising in your state.

Sure.

And we'll get into that in just a sec here.

But I will note as well that when people think of digital spending, I think back to 2016 and that presidential election, and there were so many ads

in people's Facebook feeds.

And some of them, you know, had had, you know, foreign sources, they were passing along misinformation and things like that.

But it was also around that time that I want to say I first noticed that when playing

I think it was like words with friends, you know, with people back then.

And in between rounds, I'm used to seeing commercials for like Candy Crush or things like that.

And the first time I saw a political ad, it just kind of blew me away.

I'm like, oh my gosh, they find you anywhere now.

I mean, it's so much more than just Facebook ads, isn't it?

Oh, yeah.

And people get creative with it.

It's very much seen as kind of a feather in your cap with like

how you can meet people where they are, whereas with friends is a great example.

And obviously the shock value is good there too, because you're like, whoa, and you're probably a little more receptive to what you saw there.

Another big thing is everyone's trying to crack the code of young voters, which is particularly relevant in Wisconsin, given how many they are and how engaged most of them are.

So we're seeing a lot of content, particularly on Snapchat, which is a relatively new medium for political advertising, but really everywhere that looks and feels organic to young people.

Get ready with me vlog or you know a guy who's playing a video game and then turns and talks to camera So you're right.

They can come pillow glass can come in all shapes sizes and forms and pretty much find you wherever you are I know that annoy some people but also maybe some people appreciate that it's more a Suited to what their interests are when they're seeing them in different spaces.

It might be but you know

The last thing I'll ask before we go to break here is just the sourcing of it.

It seems to me it's harder than ever to know who's running any particular ad that you're seeing.

I mean, even if you do see the fine print, there's such generic names.

It's so difficult.

And so we can't really blame anybody if they say all of the ads are confusing.

oh yeah and we can get into that but yeah basically the ads are credited to usually the legal entity that's running it which can be very transparent straightforward like you'll recognize the name or it might be more obscure and you're 100 right obviously

like Big Tech has gotten a little bit less cooperative in the transparency area, I would say.

So even since I've been tracking this newsletter, which has been, you know, several years now, it's gotten a bit harder.

There are obviously also guidelines on all the advertising on all the platforms, but more and more so, we've found ads that do not meet those guidelines, they're using AI, et cetera, but are not being taken down by the platforms, not being caught by their filters.

We are talking to Lucy Richmond, who's got the, for what it's worth newsletter, you can get it at

newsroom.com or fwiw.news and we will continue talking to her about online spending in the Wisconsin elections coming up right after this on UpNorth News Radio.

I'm Pat

Kratlum.

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A horse with no name was the first single by the group America, and it rose to number one on this day in 1972.

You can get that and more in our daily history lesson every morning at 6.50 Monday through Friday here on UpNorth News Radio.

A couple of quick sports notes here.

The Milwaukee Bucks are now two and two on their five game road trip out west.

It will conclude tomorrow in Denver.

Then they're back home Friday versus the Knicks.

The Bucks were in Phoenix last night.

Devin Booker of the Suns hit a jumper with 2.4 seconds remaining to lift the Suns over the Bucks, 108 to 106.

And the Milwaukee Brewers open up the season day after tomorrow.

They will be at Yankee Stadium coverage starts Thursday at 1.30 on Civic Media stations in Richland Center, Oshkosh, Racine Park Falls, and the newest Brewers affiliate up North WBZH Hayward.

So we are plenty excited for baseball season.

We're talking to Lucy Ritzman who does the For What It's Worth newsletter, which you can get at fwiw.news or couriernewsroom.com tracking online digital spending all across the country, but specifically in the Wisconsin Supreme Court race because it has national ramifications in so many ways from Wisconsin gerrymandered maps to it being a referendum on Elon Musk and Donald Trump.

So

We knew it was going to be expensive already, Lucy.

From a digital, from an online standpoint, how is this race looking on those platforms?

I'm guessing people are spending more than a buck 25.

Oh, yeah.

And, you know, every time it gets more expensive and we think it can get more expensive than this, and it does.

We specifically took a look at early February to early March to track who was ramping up as we got closer to the election.

Obviously, now we're only one week away, which is crazy.

We looked specifically on meta platforms.

So you, sir, Facebook and Instagram, that was $1.5 million, that price tag total in Wisconsin.

And then we also looked at Google, which owns YouTube as well.

And that was $1.1 million.

So these are numbers you don't usually see put up in the spring of an off year.

But to your point, Pat, it's obviously a major election for Wisconsin.

It's also going to decide the fate of abortion in the state amongst many other issues.

But in a lot of ways, it's kind of a big proxy war, especially on the digital side between

you know, I would say politically interested billionaires and the people that they support.

Obviously, this is the first major statewide elections since Donald Trump was elected in November, including winning Wisconsin.

So everyone wants a piece of it.

And I think why it has gained particular national relevance and has become

to many people kind of a bellwether is because Elon Musk has spent so openly from his pack America pack but also has multiple names so of those disclaimers that I was talking about there are several that are funded by Elon Musk and yeah he has come in hot and definitely

you can see some more, I would say, kind of classic tactics that we've expected from them coming from him in the Wisconsin Supreme Court election.

Which by that we mean not just straight-up advertising, but things that are misleading as well, or duplicitous, you could say.

100%.

And I will say...

As that are 100% straightforward, as I'm sure everyone knows, are not incredibly uncommon.

But something that we have been tracking pretty closely is the group name.

So if you see it on the advertisement, it's Progress 2028.

that sounds like it could be

progressive.

But think project 2025 when you see progress 2028.

That's

a great yeah, I just swap those are like pretty much the same thing in your head if you want to do it that way.

But if anyone has seen those advertisements, they call Judge Crawford a progressive.

They seem like they're being complimentary, but they're being funded by Elon Musk's PAC.

And it's with the intention of taking you know,

basically turning away centrist voters by calling her things that might be nice to some people, but not enticing.

Yes, ascribing far left views that she may not have even taken a public position on the

the TV spending alone could be at least $59 million at this point here.

And we've talked about the various platforms, but let's come back to some of the players that are on there.

Well, yes, the Susan Crawford and Brad Schimmel campaigns are some of the big spenders.

And we've talked about Elon Musk, but I mean, there are multiple national groups that are getting involved in this that you have to track, right?

Yeah, definitely.

And something that was really notable to me is like the top 10 Spenders Chart when we were looking at meta, Judge Schimels.

campaign wasn't even on the top 10 spenders.

It's a lot, especially digital funding, a lot of times comes from supporters.

So some of the major players we're seeing on the left are a better Wisconsin together, the WISCO project, folks that you're probably accustomed to seeing and the campaign itself.

And then on the right, we're seeing a lot of the Elon Musk backed organizations, and then Americans for Prosperity, which is the Koch brothers, they're also usually involved in races like this and are certainly very involved in this race.

So I would

say pretty classic players, but also engaged to a significant level that we're definitely taking note of.

Like I said, this is the first test of 2025.

And a lot of people, a lot of donors will look at what happens, especially with digital strategy and decide what was worth it and what's not, whether or not that's an accurate representation of their states.

that's what they'll do.

So certainly everyone's getting involved in a major way this time.

Oh, yeah, I mean, I'm looking at, you know, one of the most recent articles, you can get it at Courier Newsroom, look for the FWIW newsletter.

And yeah, you've got a better Wisconsin together there, which is one of the top spenders on Facebook and Instagram, two of their groups accounting for some $340 million.

But then you've got like you said, America pack Americans for prosperity, House Freedom Action, Progress 2028, our America

building America's future.

They all sound like puppies and kittens and rainbows but they're all basically far-right groups that are spending tens of thousands of dollars in here.

All to reach people.

And Lucy, I guess the thing I want to conclude on with this is the same thing I say about TV ads.

People go, oh, TV ads, nobody's paying attention to those.

If they didn't work, people wouldn't be spending this kind of money on them.

So it is important to note the ads and to know that, you know, you may have to dig a little deeper to find out who's actually trying to persuade you.

Oh yeah, 100%.

You're completely right on that.

I always say, usually the ads that people get the most upset about is the ones that are raising the most money and they wouldn't put them there if they weren't raising the most money.

I think obviously it's a larger conversation about what fundraising looks like in campaigns these days.

But yeah, if they're there, there is a good reason that they're there.

Yes, without a doubt.

So thankfully, somebody's tracking it and Lucy's doing that for us at Courier Newsroom.

You can find the FWIW newsletter, fwiw.news or couriernewsroom.com.

Sign up for all the different newsletters there.

and stay so fully informed.

And the first time you see this newsletter and you look at the tracking of the spending, it's going to blow you away that so many entities are involved in this.

Lucy, great to have you on.

Thank you so much.

Thanks, Pat.

All right.

Have a wonderful day.

When we come back, Richard Trent, executive director of Main Street Alliance, right after this, you're up

north.

Another one from Elton John on the occasion of his 78th birthday on this Tuesday morning on Up North News Radio.

A reminder of our keyword for a break into spring statewide text to win contest.

The word to text to us is bird.

Bird is the word.

I won't even play the song.

Bird is the word.

Text it in and you're eligible for this hour's prize of $100 and part of the grand prize drawing at the end of this little two week contest.

So be sure to get that Civic Media app and text that into us.

I have said before, I am so excited about the Brewer's Season opener day after tomorrow.

Again, you can catch the Brewers against the Yankees.

Thursday coverage starts at 1.30 on several civic media stations, head to civicmedia.us to learn more.

And I also mentioned earlier in the program that the Wisconsin Department of Public Instruction has taken a look at the impact of eliminating or nearly eliminating the U.S.

Department of Education.

And President Trump has said that those funds that are coming to local schools will find some other way to get to local schools, but without burden some regulations.

Well, first off, we haven't seen the plan.

And second, is that really going to make things more efficient?

But DPI has looked at the total impact of those federal dollars coming into your local school districts.

And.

It is an immeasurable amount of money, hundreds of millions of dollars.

They've broken it down by school district.

So here in Chippewa Falls, for example, we're talking $3.7 million, about 6% of the budget that would be lost.

Imagine having to replace 6% of your budget.

It's 7% in the La Crosse School District.

It's a 6% in the Waukesha School District.

Again, millions upon millions of dollars, and you can head over to DPI.

dot w i dot gov and you'll get a breakdown school district by school district on the loss of funding.

So the loss of funding and the loss of services is the subject of our next segment here with our guest Richard Trent executive director of main street alliance about what all of these trump budget cuts are doing to small business and a level playing field for competition in the american economy.

Richard Trent good morning thank you for being here.

Hey, thanks for having me back.

Good to see you.

Yeah, good to see you as well.

We talked to you when you were fairly brand new on the job and we've certainly got a lot of ground to cover in terms of what what Main Street Alliance members want to see from this new administration.

We know what they don't like.

They don't like an unlevel playing field.

They don't like uncertainty.

They don't like to see cuts in funding or services.

We, we, we appear to be checking all those boxes at this point in, in the new administration.

How do you, how do you prioritize what you've got to convey to members of Congress and members of state legislatures about what is most important to small businesses in this very uncertain era that we have entered?

Yeah.

I mean, and you might hear, you might hear my, my seven month old in the background here.

That's all right.

That's never an issue.

No problem.

These are, these are one of the.

This is the foundational concerns of folks that are uplifting Main Street, small business owners, people that just like the mom and pop store down the street, healthcare, childcare, and access to capital.

If you ask any small business owner, usually if they're struggling with something, it's one of those three things.

And so it's that energy that we tried to carry into Madison last week with our day of action where we had 70 plus.

Small business owners and Main Street advocates really taking it to state legislators and saying, listen, this is unacceptable.

We want to see $500 million to support things like expanded childcare access and make sure that our childcare operators can actually function.

We want to see the extension of Medicaid support, especially for postpartum support where Wisconsin is the only state in the union that doesn't offer that.

especially for someone like me and my wife, after we gave birth to our first son, she was essentially incapacitated for four months with a herniated disc and had to have reconstructive surgery.

Her story is not unusual.

A family is that struggle as soon as the child is born.

Why are we not extending support to those families to make sure that they can connect with their child and recover health?

And then lastly, the big thing was the extension of the Main Street Bounceback Program.

which we know a couple of years ago was huge for addressing Wisconsin City's empty storefront problem.

So we were looking for a $50 million addition to the budget to make sure that small businesses have that crucial access to capital that keeps them in the game.

We have not talked about Governor Evers and the Main Street bounce back program for a long time.

And that really is one of the biggest feathers in his cap in helping Wisconsin have one of the best recoveries from the pandemic of all the states was all of those, uh, you know, small comparatively, uh, grants that went to small Main Street businesses.

It wasn't small for them.

It kept them afloat.

And it's a, it's a good reminder that we should come back and visit some of these creative ideas.

Let me touch.

on the, you know, where you talked about healthcare, childcare, access to capital.

Let me talk about the access to capital for a moment.

And I know this is probably more from a national standpoint than a state standpoint.

But we have talked about what these, these cuts, these broken contracts are doing to farmers in Wisconsin and across the country where the federal government made a contract.

We're paying you for putting your land in this conservation program and things like that.

And now these programs are being ended abruptly.

And these are things where farmers had to borrow money to engage in conservation practices, and then they'd borrow that from a local bank, then the government would make a payment and they'd pay back the loan.

I can only imagine that there's those same fears in terms of access to capital that are being created by the uncertainty that the Trump administration is bringing to key programs for small businesses.

It's a clear indication of just how out of touch the administration is with the needs, the challenges of working class Americans, small business owners.

A clear indication is what's happening at the SBA, the Small Business Administration.

The SBA has always been this.

key lifeline for small business owners and for Main Street advocates, whether it's the mass firings of between 400 and 700 staff there, or now this decision to house student loans services in the SBA, it's abundantly clear to me when you hear things like that, that they don't recognize that 50% of American small businesses are operating on just a month of cash flow.

Right?

If you have a solid understanding of the challenges that our working class is facing in this country, you don't make callous students like this that really just spit in the face of so many hard-working students.

Well, right.

And again, it brings up that note that these are not things that

Donald Trump specifically campaigned on for all the talk of cutting out, you know, waste fraud and abuse that no point did he say, and by the way, small business owner, you're the waste that I'm looking to cut.

He never specifically outlined that kind of thing at all.

Now, on top of all of this is the trade war that he's ignited with some of our biggest allies or trading partners and

I know we talk about this again on a large scale, agriculture writ large or steel or aluminum, but any kind of massive increase in tariffs is going to have that spillover effect.

And we've talked about it being passed on to the consumer, but somewhere between all of that is the small business owner as well.

What are your thoughts on what these higher tariffs are doing to small business?

So, you know, we've spent the last

four years basically agreeing that inflation is an existential threat to a strong economy, right?

The Biden administration ran on this trying to burnish their credentials as inflation fighters.

The Trump administration really highlighted the fact that inflation was messing up the survival, the thriving of so many different Americans.

Now we're going back into the same inflationary environment because of policies like this.

So, I mean, we don't often, we don't talk enough about how inflationary tariff policies of the Trump administration are and will become.

And what this means for putting upward pressure on interest rates, because when the goods that you're importing become more expensive.

those are costs ultimately that are going to have to be passed on to the consumer.

If you're a small business owner who's running a cafe and there's a tariff on coffee from South American country, now your operating costs have just gone up.

Those costs are going to be fronted on to the consumer and all of a sudden it's 50, 75.

a dollar more for a cup of coffee than it was just a few months ago.

Those are inflationary forces on the economy that are going to have real devastating impacts on.

working class Americans.

And just as we're getting out of this inflationary drama, it feels like we're headed right back in with these ridiculous policies.

And on top of that is the notion that for the wholesalers out there for small businesses, even if the tariffs are brought down or eliminated at some point,

That's not to say that every wholesaler is gonna have a corresponding reduction in prices.

I mean, these price increases can be sticky, shall we say.

And we're creating essentially long-term inflation for small business owners if that's the case.

That's exactly right.

And one other, I think one other challenge that isn't highlighted enough is just the fact that, you know, sometimes a targeted tariff can be okay.

If you want to gin up an industry that's important to the growth of the American economy, but when you've got these blanket tariffs that are administered and then taken away and then administered and taken away, what happens is small business owners, Main Street are operating within this cloud of ambient uncertainty, which really impacts their ability to plan and to say, hey, we want it to hire.

XYZ staff member three six months down the road They can no longer make decisions like that because the economic environment is so clouded with with these Will they won't be tariff policy?

Will they won't they tariff policy?

So I think that that's that's kind of Another way that we need to be thinking about this is like Main Street entrepreneurs deserve the economic certainty of like a clear Set of rules or policies for the economy and they don't have that right now

We're talking to Richard Trent, he's the executive director of the Main Street Alliance.

And a lot of the times when we've talked to you or Sean Fetaplace or two other small business owners and we say, why, why are you taking the step of advocating for things like expanded Medicaid or issues like minimum wage and things like that?

It really just does come down to.

capitalism works best with competition when competition is fair.

And it's these kinds of government policies that essentially provide a level playing field so that small businesses can compete and can compete with large businesses too.

And so we've noticed that uptick in

policy advocacy by small business people, Main Street Alliance appears to be just continuing to grow and give voice to these small business concerns.

Tell me about the Main Street Alliance growth.

Yeah, you know, Pat, we can have nice things.

This is Main Street Alliance is we can have nice things agenda.

We've got to break free from the scarcity mindset and realize that these are

that the industries that we decide to prop up or invest in, there are a couple people making very pointed decisions to either help them out or to not.

And, you know, every single state makes investments or whether it's subsidies or tax breaks for the industries that they deem important for growing the economy.

Well, we've got to bring that same mentality to Main Street.

Main Street and small businesses create two thirds of new jobs.

99% of all companies in this country are small businesses.

And if you don't recognize that as the lifeblood is really the beating heart of the American economy, then you're out of touch.

And so we need to be thinking of what are the investments we can make in Main Street in the small business sector in the same way that we invest in, depending on the state oil and gas or different industries that help to prop up the economy.

So that's kind of

the angle that we're approaching this with is like, these aren't handouts.

These aren't like people that are just begging for a handouts.

These are people that recognize that a stronger main street means making sure that people don't have to choose between taking care of a loved one and receiving a paycheck.

You know, it's these very simple things, these simple investments, not handouts that we can make in main street that would make a really big difference and the lived experience are so many different.

Wisconsinites.

Richard Trent is the executive director of Main Street Alliance.

Richard, great to visit with you again.

Thank you so much for your time and we'll look forward to a visit again real soon.

Absolutely.

Thank

you.

Thank you, Richard.

Thank you again.

When we come back, we'll talk to Chad Holmes from 989 WXCO about his program coming up in Wausau.

That's next on Up North News Radio on this Tuesday morning.

I'm Pat Crichtlump.

You're listening to Civic Media.

Find the latest news, information, and archives of all your favorite shows on the Civic Media website, civicmedia.us.

Chad Holmes along in just a sec.

First on the phone is Dale from Warsaw.

Wants to talk a little bit about tariffs before we bring Chad in.

Dale, hope you're still there.

Thanks for holding.

Good morning.

What's on your mind?

Good morning.

Good morning.

Yeah, I wanted to say something on tariffs.

The bottom line on tariffs is the money going into the US Treasury for Trump's tariffs and causing additional costs to people in Wisconsin for tariffs on imports.

We'll go to tax cuts for billionaires and multi-millionaire friends of Trump's.

In essence, the additional money we pay for imported consumer goods will go to the risk for tax cuts.

You talk about Ponzi schemes, that's in essence what's going on.

That's it.

That's exactly it.

You should get a ding, ding, ding bell because that Dale is exactly what this is all about.

I appreciate that somebody would call in to make that point.

Thank you, Dale, very much.

Hope you have a great day.

That's Dale and Wausau.

Now, here's Chad and Wausau.

He's on a better line.

He's on a microphone and everything from 98.9 WXCO.

Mr. Holmes, how are you?

Doing great.

How are you guys doing?

Oh, we're good there, especially that Dale shows that the listeners are getting it.

uh that that these cuts and these tariffs uh they're not going to benefit anybody they're going to pay for you know tax cuts for the very rich and you know there are a lot of folks who uh look at this stuff and and say oh yeah it's all going to trickle down to us and what's it based on i'm i'm looking for 40 years i'm not seeing the trickle down working yet i i i see it all being sucked up more than anything else

I know that's one reason why history is so important if you look back not just 40 years you look back at last 140 years Every policy that has done something to help make Americans lives a little bit better have not come from the Reactionary way of American politics.

I mean they've always looked whether going back until to you know, we had

spin the roulette wheel when it came to your food and your meat back in the late 19th century.

You had the 18 hour seven day a week workdays because they could.

There was no rules against it.

Every little bit of what I would call progress over the years has not come from what you would call the right wing of American politics.

And again, I just think that's that's facts.

It's obvious.

It's obvious.

And I've been hearing this for 40 years.

And what what the Reaganites called supply side economics has never worked.

Never worked.

Let me say this again so that it's clear has never worked.

It's when you stimulate demand That you stimulate the economy and I'm not gonna sit here and spend the whole time, you know with Keynesian versus, you know, Reaganites, but I don't have to the records clear work on the demand side not the millionaires and billionaire side and things work better But that is not the era we're in right now because they've got control of the messaging.

Well, and also, I mean in your last conversation

You talk about just, you know, basic programs that we saw in the last four years.

You know, and the thing is we don't talk about those because those are not what you call sexy talk topics often.

But boy, there were a lot of you would call them.

Small medium type of policies that were put in to help average Americans.

I mean whether it's through small business whether it's as simple as as When you go on an airline flight in terms of not being You know just pound it on fee after fee after fee little things that make lives a little bit better and I wish we'd focus again That's something that's on my shoulders and everybody else's shoulders to talk about

the little things that make lives a little bit better for the average American, not for the super rich American that basically seems to be the focus of, of Doge.

I mean, that's what it sounds like.

I mean, every dollar that they'll save will go straight back into Elon Musk's pocket.

I mean, that's, that's right.

Exactly.

We interrupt this conversation with Chad Holmes to remind you that the keyword this hour for the break into spring statewide text to win contest is bird.

So Sen Bird, Mr. Bach has a question.

Two things.

Remember, spell that word correctly.

It's very important.

If you don't spell it correctly, you're not going to be entered.

And the other thing too is you have to do it through the Civic Media app.

I'm getting text messages from people that's not coming through the app and want to make sure that you

also have a couple of them in the comments section on Facebook.

No.

Nope, not going to work.

No

media app texted Texas through there.

A lot of people send us text messages on all kinds of things and in the comment section as well.

But for this particular contest, come on in through that way.

So Chad, what else have you got coming up on the show this week?

Oh, I mean, today I'm loaded up today.

We talking to Chad's loaded

today, folks.

All right.

Exactly.

Coming up on Saturday here in Wausau, USP at Wausau.

There is a really

nice event that's called US Labor then and now.

There's going to be a viewing of seven films based on history here in the labor movement and Dr. Michael Childers from UW Madison School for Workers.

He's a professor there.

He'll screen and lead discussion on the film.

And we're going to talk a little bit about what people can expect there coming up.

on Saturday and also gonna have a couple of members of the sustainability committee here in Wausau.

They come in once a month and talk about what they're working on.

They'll be in the second hour of the program.

Okay and then you're in your sports lull right now where you get you actually get you know eight hours of sleep now and then?

I was driving in.

I mean there is I mean you wouldn't believe the trees here in Wausau as I was driving in.

I mean, they are just loaded with snow.

And one of my first thought is, well, I mean, I'm supposed to do a game in 10 days.

It's going to be a rather significant sunshine, a significant warm-ups, or else we may be pushing back a little

bit.

And even then, the fields might be wet.

So again, I don't know how baseball and softball teams do it every season, but somehow they manage to squeeze in the games.

All right, Chad Holmes from 989, WXCO.

Tune in to his show coming up next.

And if you're not in the Wausau area, then tune in.

through the Civic Media app.

Thank you, Chad.

Have a great day.

We'll talk to you soon.

Thank you guys.

All right.

And Greg Bach is back.

He's he's he's back with Matt Nair on air pinch hitting for one Jane Matt Nair.

No,

Jane's back today.

Oh, is Jane back today?

Today.

I'm sorry.

I had the whole week on the brain, but it

was and we have Dom Salvia 1030 and Karina Tweedle at 11 o'clock talking to us from Wisconsin, Ukrainian.

So

There you go.

So Greg is back with Jane and that'll do it for Up North News Radio.

For this Tuesday, I'm Pat Crate.

We'll have a wonderful day.

We'll see you back here Wednesday morning, 6 a.m.

right here up north.

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