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mid mornings on civic media.
My name is Greg Bach.
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I'm glad you're here today.
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Have a wonderful show ahead for you today.
After the 930 news, we have Peg Sandin, who is the CEO
of death with dignity.
They are a leading organization of end of life advocacy and policy reform.
She'll be coming out of the show to talk about the work they do across the country, what it means as far as the topic and its perception within the communities.
It affects whether it's states that are it's legal or currently not legal to practice death with dignity.
We will talk about that as well as the evolution of the language itself that helps.
inform people on the topic.
But we'll be talking to her at 9 35 this morning and then 1006 in the second hour to start it off, we have a host of amicus, a law review, Mr. James Santel.
He is a former US attorney, current practicing attorney, and he will be joining us as he does all the, all every week to talk about all the news coming out of the world of law, lots of stuff happening, not just this week, but actually just today as well.
And then JR Radcliffe will be here as well sports.
We'll be talking, I'm sure Packers a, a wrap up of the season as they did lose to the bears last Saturday.
And we will also be discussing possibly the bucks and maybe some badgers news as well.
I don't know if there's anything coming out of the brewers, but we are just, just a few weeks away from pictures and catchers reporting to Arizona for spring training, but that's going to be at 10 35 this morning.
Then of course,
This shouldn't be a thing wrapping up the show today.
It is the ocean of love edition.
So don't go anywhere.
Lots of great information, lots of great conversation coming your way throughout the morning.
And I really appreciate you being here today.
Really quick, just off the top, something we are going to speak to Jim Santel about later on in the show.
The president has threatened to use the Insurrection Act in Minneapolis to quell the tensions that are going on in the city right now.
There was a story that came out two hours ago in the BBC and this is all across the news.
federal agent shoots Minneapolis man in leg after a shovel attack.
Uh, there was another attempt to arrest a person in Minneapolis and he, I guess the ICE agent was, uh, the DHS agent was attacked with a shovel.
So he shot the person in a leg.
That of course is setting off more tensions.
That's for, that's that, that, that, that conversation, that story is evolving.
But one of the things that came out of it was president Trump saying he would.
Use possibly the insurrection act in Minneapolis.
So I'm going to talk to Jim about that what the insurrection act is how it can be used in I would say legitimate circumstances and then we're also going to talk about the vote that the vote to block checks and balances out of the Senate yesterday with the flipping of two GOP senators who actually cited originally with Democrats.
We'll talk more with Jim
on those stories when he comes on the show at 10.06 today.
But I wanted to start off with a few stories I saw on the headlines here, a lot that have to do with Wisconsin.
First starting up, something that we're always talking about, going to continue to talk about, because it's in the news and it affects us.
And I've heard from you on the text line, on the phone lines, and that is data centers.
And this is a headline out of the AP by Matt O'Brien and Mark Levy.
It was published a couple of days ago.
Microsoft's Brad Smith pushes
big tech to quote, pay our way for AI data centers amid rising opposition.
So as you may or may not know, data centers are becoming more and more prevalent across the country with, you know, I think between four to 5,000 total around the country, but
in wisconsin we have quite a few and there has been as it says in the story rising opposition people going to local meetings saying we don't want this for various reasons they don't want they don't want a big building in the middle of their community the the cost of the energy needs the water usage the utility bill spikes that could happen so people have been speaking up over this matter and brad smith who is the ceo by the president of microsoft has said in a meeting that he wants to push forward
any approaches that calls for the industry quote the industry not taxpayers to pay the full cost of the vast network of computing warehouses needed to power AI chatbots like chat GBT Google Gemini and Microsoft's own co-pilot and he actually got
A nod from the president on this one too.
President Donald Trump gave Microsoft's effort a nod in a truth social post Monday evening where he stated that it does not he does that he the president does not want Americans to quote pick up the tab for these data centers and pay higher utility costs.
goes on and say, local communities naturally want to see new jobs, but not the expense of higher electricity prices or the diversion of their water.
Smith said in an interview with the Associated Press.
So I think this is very interesting to watch because, you know, there, I think I mentioned either yesterday or the day before, I feel like there are three camps of people when it comes to this.
There are people who are absolutely for them, you know, bring them in more of the better, build them on top of each other, pro data center.
Okay.
Then there's people in the middle.
Who I think I think I'm more in this in this category because I don't see them going away anytime soon I fear for what these big buildings will look like in 20 30 years when the technology shrinks and we need less but if they're going to be happening Then I believe that this approach with Brad Smith and endorsed by the president and a lot of individuals whether we're talking about bills coming out of Madison
Let's make sure it's responsible, transparent, make sure we know what's being used for the energy in, in state Senator Jody Habush, Seneca's bill, using unionized labor, local labor, local companies to do the work.
But there's a transparency and an understanding of what's going into each of these places that the community can, can to know about without any sort of diversion or back room dealing.
So to me, this is
A point of hope, a point of this makes me feel good that it's not just going to be the big company saying, nah, not our problem.
We'll do what we want.
We're big companies.
We're going to come in.
We're going to say what we want.
I feel like that has been the tenor for a long time.
And if someone like Microsoft, if the president of Microsoft is saying, no, we should pay for this.
This is on us.
We're going to be
We are going to be using this land, using the energy, using the utility, using the water.
So yeah, it should be on us.
And then of course, I didn't finish my statement there, but the third category are people I've heard from on the show here who just don't want them period.
I understand that as well.
And that is where if you are in that camp, I strongly urge you to keep an eye on your county board agendas and your municipality
agendas as far as what people are talking about.
Cause that is where those decisions are being made.
These aren't being made at the, at the state and the federal level for where they're going to go.
It's going to be people coming to town hall meetings and standing with saying, we do not want this.
And we have proof of it in Caledonia standing up and saying, we do not want this in our community.
And it so far, so far it has been pushed back.
So there is a place for the voices and it seems like there might be some Partnership on the side of at least one company I can't speak for all of them, but I feel like if the president Microsoft is saying something that can lead to some a better discussion and more Opportunity to make sure that the communities aren't the ones sacked with the bill because as we as we've heard from both the left and the right business and personal
we're going to see utility spikes if these data centers come in and they're not being held accountable for what they're using.
And it's not for us, the taxpayers to have to pay for their energy bills.
And so, yeah, I just thought that was a very, I thought that was very important.
We should know about that because it's a good, it's a good part of that story, but we'll continue to talk about that throughout the days and weeks and months and years ahead because data centers not going anywhere.
In the Wisconsin Examiner, there was a story, Harry Redman with a byline says Wisconsin Farmers Union members lobbied legislators on immigration and farm, I'm sorry, fair markets.
And we have spoken many times to Darren Von Ruden, who is the president of the Wisconsin Farmers Union, would love actually to have him back sooner than later.
And we know by his discussions with us that they have lobbying days where they will go to Madison or they will go to Washington to have
numerous meetings with lawmakers or their representatives to talk about their needs, about what they're looking to get out of, whether it's the languishing farm bill, which has still not been passed, or just any sort of legislation that will help the farming community here in Wisconsin and abroad.
But Wisconsin is their number one, of course, their number one concern.
And they, one of the, and it says here that one of the things they talked about was the farmers union's top legislative priorities.
was to protect immigrant farm workers.
They want to make sure that our leaders know that they oppose any sort of legislation that would help to basically, or efforts to help deport.
undocumented immigrants, or in the case of what's going on right now, documented immigrants, protected immigrants, immigrants with green cards, and sometimes just U.S.
citizens.
But one of the things they are talking about here is a lobbying effort to oppose any bill that would require all Wisconsin sheriffs to join federal governments, what's called the 287G program, which grants sheriff's deputies some authority to enforce federal immigration law.
Under the bill, if counties refused to participate, the state would reduce the amount of shared revenue provided to the county by the state by 15%.
So I want you to hear that again.
The bill that's currently being looked at, and I'll pull this up right now for you.
So this is Assembly Bill 24.
If this goes through, it would require all sheriffs to join the federal government's program 287G.
This grants sheriffs the deputy the sheriff's deputy is the authority to enforce federal immigration law I'm reading it again because I want you to hear the words under this bill if counties refuse to participate the state would reduce the amount of shared revenue provided to the county by the state by 15% so It will be a bill that would it would force sheriffs to participate
If the sheriff's department says no, then the whole county is penalized with a cut of shared revenue of 15%.
18 sheriff's offices right now have entered into the 287G agreements, including Kenosha County, which is another story I wanted to touch on at the examiner.
This came out a couple of days ago with one of our guests, Isaiah Holmes, the Kenosha County Sheriff's David Zenner.
has joined the 287G program after a year, as he said, of diligent, evolving discussions.
And it was announced last Monday that he has reached an agreement with the federal government that it will come to be that they will join the 287 program.
And I would love to know your thoughts on this.
What do you think about a bill that would force our sheriffs to participate?
And if they didn't, we then as a county get penalized.
That just seems very much to me like a threat, extortion, what do you want to call it?
But if we choose not to participate, that should be the choice of the county, the choice of the sheriff, the choice of the community, the people in there.
And if you don't, you're getting in trouble and you don't get money.
And what gets cut when money gets...
Siphoned off usually social programs.
So point is I'd love to hear from you 855-752-484-285-755 Civic.
My name is Greg Bach.
I'm your host mid mornings on Civic media.
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Welcome, welcome back.
two mid mornings on civic media.
My name is Greg Bach.
I am your host.
I'm your buddy and repel coming live to you from Racine at radio park.
If you want to be part of the conversation, eight, five, five, seven, five, two, four, eight, four, two, eight, five, five, seven, five civic leave a comment on that live stream.
Currently a live streaming on Facebook, YouTube and the platform that we still call Twitter.
lots of great programs still ahead, including conversation with Peg Sandin, who is the CEO of death with dignity.
Talking about that after the 9 30 news about the, um, you know, what one would like to do if they have the ability to plan their own death, death with dignity, that's what their doctor's advice and family, that conversation, the evolving topic that will be after the 9 30 news.
And then Jim Santel in the second hour, JR Radcliffe at 10 35.
And then of course,
This shouldn't be a thing today.
It's the ocean of love additions.
So don't go anywhere Got lots of great stuff for you and thank you for spending time with us today now before we went to the to the grab some snacks and some hydration We returned to some phone calls here.
We're talking about We were talking about the fact that our our farmers
The farmers union, Wisconsin farmers union sat down with lobbyists and lawmakers this week for one of their lobbying days.
And one of the things they wanted to push on was the fact that with the immigration crackdown that happened in 2025, that's still going on right now.
A bail was being proposed that would basically force the Wisconsin sheriffs around the state to participate in what's called federal governments.
287 G program.
If they chose not to, if the bill goes through and they chose not to, then the counties would be penalized with a cut of 15% to their shared revenue.
So there's a lot going on right in that moment, but that all started with the conversation of the farmers union of Wisconsin opposing that bill because it would just make it, I mean, it just makes it even harder.
The farmers have suffered a lot.
The workers have suffered a great amount.
And this is not, I believe how you get things done by, by pushing forth this kind of legislation, but we got people on the line right now who want to voice their opinion on it.
If you want to voice your opinion, eight, five, five, seven, five, two, four, eight, four, two, eight, five, five, seven, five.
Civic Jean from Eau Claire is on the line.
Jean, good morning.
And how are you today?
Um, well, I was fine till I heard that.
I can't believe this.
This is, he's establishing his own militia.
This is, this is sick.
Federalizing our
Our employees federalizing to pow down to the man.
Yeah, I cannot believe this.
Thank you so much for giving us this information and Hey, I gotta say something.
I hope everybody tunes in on Saturday Yes at nine o'clock.
Yeah
And it's like one number 181.
Yeah.
Well, there you go.
Hey, that's how I'm celebrating my 71st birthday.
There you go.
Game Santel, because all of us need to get together here and stop these, you know what?
They can't swear on the phone.
So thank you.
Thank you for the information.
Keep up the great work, you guys.
Thank you.
Bye.
Thanks, Gene.
Thanks for calling and appreciate you.
Appreciate your, appreciate the conversation as always.
Yes.
Uh, yeah.
Kenosha is the latest sheriff's department to join the program, the 287G program that is with the federal government regarding immigration enforcement.
He has said that this is something that's gone on over the course of a year because he wanted to make sure that he, quote, we are monitoring.
it to ensure that our participation would ultimately be in the best interest of the taxpayers of Kenosha County.
I have a lot of problems with that sentence because I feel like you're making it a financial thing rather than a safety thing.
And when we're talking about the taxpayers of Kenosha County, what are we talking about there?
So I think there's more to that conversation than we.
That meets the eye, but yes, Kenosha is the latest county to join the federal 287 G program, which works in tandem with the office of immigration and customs enforcement, which is ice, but that is an ongoing conversation.
Brett from Brown Deer is on the line too.
Now Brett, good morning.
How are you?
What's going on today?
Good morning, Greg.
First of all, I'm becoming a big fan of Gene.
Yeah, yeah Okay, here's my problem.
Okay,
here we go now.
We're adding we're threat we're threatening to cut budgeting to police Because we want to add more work to the police.
Yeah, we need to decrease the job the police have to do like mental health We need to fund the police better.
So if they want police counties to volunteer
then give them funding because they don't need any help chasing immigrants
because
ICE agency has got a bigger budget than the FBI and the Marine Corps.
Yeah.
And just to be clear, Brett, it's not 15% cut to the police force.
It's a 15% cut to the shared revenues.
And that's the thing is they would never directly defund the police.
And I'm using that phrase.
purposely, they would never do that.
What they're going to do is they're going to defund 15% of shared revenue to the county.
And then the county has to decide how they're going to react to that cut.
And it's usually not going to be by police.
It's not going to usually be, no one of the high salary in the county is going to be like, you know what, I'll take a 10% cut.
It's going to probably be to social programs, programs that take very little funding to progress.
But those are the easiest cuts to make.
People will lose jobs.
programs will get cut offices will be closed, but that 15% will not be directly put at the law enforcement, at least according to this article that I'm seeing.
Thank you very much, Brett, for the call.
Thank you, Gene, so much for the call.
Appreciate you reaching out, but we'll be hearing more about this.
As we've been stating now for the past two weeks, it is the short work year of the Wisconsin legislature.
They are working on getting bills through committee, two hearings, two votes.
Lots of lots and lots of bills on the on the agenda and and and some of them are good some of them are are neutral and fine.
They're just you know Reinforcing language some of them I feel have no business being put out there because they do not they do not address the concerns of Wisconsin citizenry the things that really affect us like affordability education healthcare access healthcare of mothers new moms things of that nature, but
We'll talk more about that in the weeks to come because like I said, short work year, they only got a few more weeks and then they're off for the next nine and a half, 10 months.
We're going to keep the conversation rolling then with our first guest coming up after the 9 30 news peg Sandean, the CEO of death with dignity will be here talking about end of life advocacy and the policy reforms they seek to enact throughout the country.
But don't go anywhere.
If you want to be part of the conversation 8 5 5 7 5 2 4 8 4 2 8 5 5 7 5 civic.
Leave a comment on that live stream too.
My name is Greg Bach.
You're listening to mid mornings on civic media.
Stay tuned and stay close.
Welcome.
Welcome back to mid mornings on civic media.
My name is Greg Bach.
I'm your host.
I'm your buddy and pal.
I'm glad you're here today.
If you want to be part of the conversation at any time, give us a call.
Throw us a tax same number.
It's 8557524842 85575 civic.
You can also leave a comment on the live stream.
We are currently Facebook.
On Facebook, we are also on YouTube and the platform in this house that we still call Twitter.
Lots of great programming still ahead.
After the 10 o'clock news, we have got Jim Santel, who is the host of Amicus Law Review, which is on every Saturday, 9am to 11am.
And as Gene from Eau Claire said, it's episode 181.
So you don't want to miss it.
It's like a mini law school every single week.
It's great stuff.
He'll be here at 10 o'clock talking about developments out of the U.S.
Senate, as well as what's going on in Minneapolis today, not just last week, but today.
So that's happening in the second hour.
And then, of course, J.R.
Radcliffe with sports.
We're going to talk about the Packers season.
It's going to be hard to accept things, but you can talk about that.
And then this shouldn't be a thing today.
It's the Ocean of Love edition.
So don't go anywhere.
As always, I'm so happy you're spending your time with us.
And for our first guest today, we're talking about a pretty, I believe personally believe a very important topic.
I believe a very misunderstood topic across the country.
We're talking about death with dignity.
And to do, to have that conversation, we're speaking with Peg Sandin, who is the CEO of the group.
Death with Dignity.
Good morning, Peg.
Thank you so much for being here today.
How are you?
It's a conversation that's not a morning conversation sometimes, but for you, it's even earlier because you're coming from Portland where it's two hours earlier.
So welcome to the show.
You know, I think anytime is a good time to talk about death.
Boom.
It is something that's going to happen to all of us and every person that we love.
And so if we wait till the very end to talk about it, it's a little late.
So
I think the morning is a great time to
talk about that.
Well, I want to start with you.
And your story, in 2023, you wrote a piece for HuffPo, and I want to write the title.
I want to read the title so everyone understands.
The title says, my husband asked me to help him die.
I couldn't do it, and my life changed forever.
Now, with that sort of title, can you give us an overview of your story and what brought you to this work, especially with the group Death with Dignity, which you are the CEO of?
So go ahead and tell us your story, Peg.
Yeah.
So this was, I mean, to take us all back to the 90s.
This was the 90s.
My husband was my college sweetheart at the time.
We got married.
This was also at sort of like the height of the AIDS epidemic.
And so he was very sick.
We didn't realize it when we got married.
And then very quickly he got an HIV diagnosis because he was very, very ill.
In the 90s HIV was a death sentence.
And it was a death that was bad.
Yes, it involved a lot of suffering and involved young people dying Which has its own sort of thing John was 30 when he was diagnosed I was 25 so I was very very young at the time and
So the course of the illness, again, taking us back to the HIV days, you know, like you got sick and you died within two years, essentially was the it was a death sentence within two years.
And he like steadily declined and became very, very, very ill.
And during the suffering, he wanted another option.
Right?
Like he wanted, like, is there something else out there?
And what was going on in the 90s was Jack Kevorkian was driving around the country for those folks who might remember this or to remember Jack Kevorkian was a physician who was driving around the country helping people die in a death ban.
And at the same time, Oregon was considering the first in the world type of legislation called the Oregon Death with Dignity Act, which the voters voted for on the ballot in 1994.
But the campaign was up and running at the same time that John was really sick.
And so he was really intrigued about this.
He wanted an option.
He wanted a choice to control his end.
He knew he was dying.
There was no way he was getting out, right?
Like it wasn't.
that he could live through this.
He was going to die, but he wanted the choice.
And what's interesting, Greg, is I think about this.
I was a very religious man.
He was a choir director in a church, devout all of his life.
It was very important to him.
My stepson is a pastor, so sort of carrying on that tradition.
And I don't think he would have used the law.
I don't think that he would have and and that's what's interesting is he just wanted the choice like he wanted an option at the end to control the timing and manner of his death.
It wasn't sure if he would make that choice but just having the choice and that's what the death dignity act does.
You know if you're dying and you qualify you go through all the steps in qualify you can get a prescription from your physician to hasten death.
But you don't have to take it, right?
It's voluntary.
You can choose.
No one's forcing you to do it.
And it's really not necessarily about the act of taking it, but about the choice at the end of your life.
And that's something I want to get to in a moment is just that, you know, the.
the language involved in all of this, the New York Times article that I read, I mean, it feels like a lot of the struggle is with just the language and understanding because one side wants to say one thing, one side, another side wants to say another thing.
It influences opinions and personalities.
And for what your husband went through, I mean, I'm old enough to remember that time, you know,
A death from AIDS wasn't just painful for you personally, it was painful for your family, but also it brought a lot of problems from society because they had to interpret why this happened and judgment.
So the language and the understanding I have to imagine is like part of the uphill battle, but I guess that's what you do at death with dignity.
I'm sorry, yeah, Death with Dignity, that's the work you do, not just to push the policy of it all, but also the understanding.
So can you tell us what kind of work you do with the organization around the country to help educate and inform
people?
Um, and I just want to, like one thing about my story, because you, you said something that, that triggered.
So before I answer that question, I wanted to just, um, let everybody know, like we were in Iowa, we were in Northern Iowa.
Oh, that's right.
Yes.
That's
heartland.
Yeah.
You know, like this is, we weren't in some metropolitan city that understood HIV in a, in a different sense.
Like we were in the heart of rural Iowa,
which I'm sure.
makes it even harder for the community, because they're like, this is in San Francisco or New York, because that's all in the 80s and the 90s.
That's all we really knew.
So I couldn't even imagine what that would be like in rural Iowa.
But please go on.
Tell us about the work that you do.
You bet.
You bring up the language thing, which I think is so incredibly important.
And one of the things that I am just so much about is being very clear about language.
And I'm a social worker.
That's my background, right?
I kind of grew up in my career as a social worker working with people with HIV, people who are dying in hospice.
So I have that background as a social worker.
And so I'm sort of like straight up.
I'm going to tell you how it is.
The medical.
institution might not be very clear with you if you're dying, but we like the social worker is the one, you know, something's going on with the access, the social worker to talk to the family or talk to the patient.
So that's who I am.
And so being real about language is very important to me.
And at the same time, we know that 70% of people in the United States support death with dignity.
Like they get it.
Like I tell my story or they have a story about their grandmother or their mother or heaven forbid their life.
25 year old son, you know, and so people understand this they support this widespread support 70% support so our opponents Have to figure out a way to break down that 70% of support and so using language to scare people about death
Helps to erode that support right and they like block us using language And so that's how sometimes it gets to be a language fight is I really believe our opponents are just trying to break down that 70% support because it's just common sense You know like even middle of America where I'm from people support it at 70% well
and that I mean that can be if we said if we just said insert Insert policy or topic here has majority support from Americans
It seems like there's always a medium to small group of people who have a lot of money, a lot of access and a lot of microphones who can take that topic.
And then just by attaching a word or two to it, scare the daylights out of people and say, or actually not even scare it.
Cause if it's 70% people understand they scare the daylights out of the lawmakers.
That's who I should say it's, it's the lawmakers who are afraid to enact these policies, which again have broad approval of the people.
So if the people say yes, you're the voice of the people, it seems like it should be more than 10 states that have laws on the book saying this can happen for those who seek, as you put it, an option.
Yeah, absolutely.
I work with legislators, so you asked me what I do.
A lot of what I do public education, like we're having this conversation today and your listeners will have a little bit more information about death and dying and maybe they'll talk about it with their family around the dinner table and then we'll have had an impact.
But also I work with legislators and so I do understand that their job as a legislator is to respond to the people, yes, but they're also stewards of what happens in a state.
So they have to make sure that if they enacted death with dignity law,
it's only available to the people who qualify and it protects everybody else, right?
It has adequate safeguards.
So I do respect that, that they have this job to do.
But I do think on the flip side, going back to what you said about our opponents or the opponents of any issue, what they're trying to do is to break in and scare people.
And it's really easy to scare people about dying, right?
Grandma the wrong people will die for the wrong reason, right?
And so that's that's the challenge that we face in the legislative environment So I travel all over the country working in state legislators with lobbyists and governor staff and legislators and Advocates to try and change the law right and to make sure that the state when legislators pass a law And a governor signs it like just happened in Illinois then that state and those legislators can be confident that what they did is they granted a right
to terminally ill people that they
have
a choice and they protect everyone else in their state.
And that's what Death with Dignity does beautifully.
It grants dying people a right to access the law and protects everybody else.
If you're just joining us on mid mornings on civic media, we're speaking to Peg Sandin, who is the CEO of Death with Dignity, a leading organization of end of life advocacy and policy reform.
And I'm glad you brought that up as far as talking to states.
When it comes to
end of life end of life policies.
I imagine it's not a blueprint or it's not a boilerplate for every state.
It looks different for every state.
So what is how do you approach each state as far as like coming in saying here's what we do.
Here's how much and here's how we would design a law with you to best protect your citizens and enact this choice for them.
Yeah.
So we
All of the laws in the United States are based on that original law that was passed in Oregon in 94 and was actually implemented and available to the people of Oregon in 1997.
So yes, every state runs their own medical system.
So in the United States, medicine is run by the states, not by the federal government.
Like every state has a medical board.
And so like you suggest, we take that Oregon model.
which is the United States model.
And we bring it to each state and help legislators craft it for how it fits within the medical system, the healthcare system within their state.
I've got, I've got quite a thousand questions for you actually, Peg, but we only, but we're going to, we're going to take a moment.
We're going to go grab some snacks.
We're going to grab some water because it's or coffee.
It's very early for Peg.
Got to grab the coffee if you need it, but we're going to be talking more about this.
We were speaking with Peg Sandin, who is the CEO of death with dignity.
They are a leading organization of.
end of life advocacy and policy from talking about education, talking about language, talking about understanding.
And if you have questions about this, please call 855-752-4842-855-75 Civic.
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Have you faced this?
Is this something you thought about for yourself?
Have you had this discussion with a loved one?
I'd love to know.
I've had these discussions with my wife regarding this matter, but we'll talk more about that on the other side.
Don't go anywhere.
You're listening to mid mornings on civic media.
My name is Greg Bach.
So happy you're here today.
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After the 10 o'clock news, Jim Santel is here to talk about all the news coming out of the world of law, including developments in Minneapolis and a vote in the Senate yesterday that.
should be disturbing for all of us, but we'll talk more about that with Jim in the 10 o'clock hour.
Then of course sports with JR Radcliffe at 10 35.
And then finally, this shouldn't be a thing ocean of love edition, but don't go anywhere.
Lots of great programming ahead and after we'll talk more about who's going to be doing what on the shows here on civic media in the second hour.
But right now we're continuing our conversation with Peg Sandin, who is the CEO.
of death with dignity.
They are a leading organization of end of life advocacy and policy reform.
And we've been talking about peg story, the work of death with dignity, as far as understanding, educating and maybe dispelling myths and rumors.
But one of the things that you wanted to talk about is the process that the patient goes through when they're on this
on this.
I guess we call it journey, where they are when they go through all of this.
So, Peg, can you speak more about that?
The way death with dignity works is
it writes a medical process into state law, right?
So it says, if you're going to access death with dignity as a patient who is dying, these are the steps that you have to go through.
And the other thing that the state law does is it tells doctors what they have to do to be able to write a prescription.
So how the process works is if you're terminally ill, you're dying and you want access to this option and you live in one of the 12 states where it's available.
So there's 12 states now.
that is available.
You go to your physician and you ask them for a prescription to end your life, right?
And you have to make multiple requests to do that.
You have to go through waiting periods to make sure that's what you really want to do.
And you have to work with two physicians.
So it's not just one physician that can write the prescription.
It asks, you have to be evaluated by two physicians.
And both physicians have to determine that you're dying.
And how we define that in the United States and all the states where it's legal, the 12 states where it's legal, that means that you are going to die in the doctor's opinion within six months, which is the same qualification that we have for hospice
in this
country.
So you have to be terminally ill.
You have to be mentally competent.
So you can't have anything with your mental health that's going on, dementia, depression.
Anything that is so deep that it impacts your ability to make and communicate healthcare decisions.
If you have something like that going on, you don't qualify.
You have to be mentally capable of making the decision.
And so after you have gone to the first physician, and you've gone through your waiting periods, and you've made your multiple requests, oral and written, you have to give a written request, and you've gone to the second physician, and you're mentally competent, and you're an adult, and you typically have to be a resident of the state, then your physician will write a prescription that you have to be able to adjust yourself.
Like nobody can do it.
The physician can't inject you.
That is actually euthanasia if we're talking about language that's actually It would be prosecuted in the United States that happened under all these laws So this is about self-administering the patient has to take the medication But as you can hear like the patient has to go through a bunch of steps and the physician has or the medical community has to go through a bunch of steps in order to qualify and so if you're thinking about this and you live in a death with dignity state
One of the things that's really important is you don't wait too long, right?
And we talked earlier, we started this conversation with some laughter about death and when it's okay to talk about death.
And the thing is, is that, you know, if we wait too long, then we can't get very sick and so making sure that we start the process early, just thinking about the option.
You don't have to take it, you get the medication, you don't have to ingest it.
If you don't want it, it's voluntary every step of the way.
And that, you know, in the New York Times article from 2023 that you are, you are quoted in, uh, one of the things they say is that the physician's role is really secondary because it's not the physician who's that that is one of the things too is like, they think that physician assisted suicide is the term they would use.
Like it was the physician coming and saying, well, you're going to die.
So I'm just going to do it for you.
That's not, this all starts with the patient.
And really quick question for you, does that mean that if, if say if my wife and I, if I was terminally ill, but also I was mentally unable to make my decisions,
I and in Wisconsin and also Wisconsin it was legal It could not be taken forward because I cannot make the mental decision I am not able to do that.
So I would just have I would not qualify essentially, correct?
She could not make that decision for me
No
She cannot make that decision.
It has to be 100% voluntary, and you have to have capacity to make that decision for yourself and be able to ingest the medication yourself.
We only have a little bit of time left, about a minute, minute and a half.
Can you give us a really quick update anywhere on Wisconsin?
Is this going?
Is this moving forward?
Is this a standstill?
Where does Wisconsin stand on this topic?
I would say that Wisconsin is really early in the process.
So this is a social movement.
And to get social movement legislation passed, we know that it takes a long time, 10, 15 years.
So Wisconsin has had a bill, you know, once like in 2017 and 2022, 2023.
So randomly there has been legislation introduced, but it really hasn't had any traction.
So I would say it's really early in the process, but that's okay.
right like there's lots of states that are really early in the process so I think that this could be coming to Wisconsin in a decade in five years ten years however long it takes a little bit of time but Illinois just passed and so Wisconsin could be next.
And it's an election year, folks.
If this is something that's on your mind, think about who's running for the offices who wants the job of being your voice and talk to them.
Make it clear.
It's always a good time to have this discussion.
Peg Sandin is the CEO of Death with Dignity.
Thank you so much, Peg, for being here.
Your organization will be in the show notes so people can check it out if they'd like to.
Have a wonderful day and appreciate your time as always.
Yeah, thank you,
Greg.
All right, when we come back, we'll be speaking to Jim Santel, host of Amicus, a law review about all the news coming out of the world of law, including Minneapolis and D.C.
Don't go anywhere.
You're listening in mid mornings on Civic Media.
My name is Greg Bach.
Thank you for your time.
Stay tuned and stay close.
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