Date Centers, Opposition Research And A Tie (Hour 1)

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Welcome to that they're on air Jane that they're right back Calvin Butenoff coming to you live from our studio at radio park in Racine You can always join us call or text the number is the same at eight five five seven five two four eight four two You can also leave a comment if you're watching on the live stream on YouTube and Twitter Our multi-state

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Hour number two, our friend from UW Madison, David Drake, who is the in the wildlife program.

And this is not, unfortunately, it's about PFAS in our ducks.

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Also, they're in there on the move, the monarchs.

So just look over your head and I guess you can wave as the monarchs start heading back to Mexico.

OK, it's a long flight.

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They're

good.

There's so little.

Yeah.

I mean, yeah, if I'm flying, I'm going to be really tired.

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David Drake here in hour number two for Audio Sorbet after 10 30, where we like to lighten things up and get away from the news.

Today is National Coffee Day.

Oh, you say.

It's National Coffee Day.

By the way, coffee prices are only up 20%.

Boy, howdy.

But we wanted to talk about, do you drink coffee?

Not everybody drinks coffee.

I know Pat's producer, Parker, doesn't drink coffee.

I didn't start drinking coffee until later in life.

So we'll be talking about, yeah, when did you start drinking coffee?

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I have a friend, a good friend who only drinks decaf.

I know, and I'm like that kind of, but then what's the point?

Because she likes the way it tastes.

That's...

She's an aberration Not the

word I picked but

okay, so well a national coffee date today We'll be talking about your coffee habits and whether or not you're gonna cut back now that prices are Rising and will likely continue to rise well wrap up the show as we always do with this shouldn't be a thing today.

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yeah, join us after after 1034 a audio sorbet and text in the word snap SNAP you have until 10 o'clock couple other sports notes we want to start with.

Yeah, that Packers overtime game.

Hmm.

Hey,

guys, we're

we're done.

40 40 tie.

with the Cowboys

If you go to civicmedia.us Slash shows go to Matt and Aaron Aaron go to this last Thursday's episode wouldn't second hours that'd be the second posting I don't remember the name of the episode top of my hand, but if you listen that episode our discussion with Paul noon and at the end of it specifically he says There's no way the Cowboys win.

Well, he was half right well

Yeah, that's true.

They didn't win.

They didn't win.

They didn't lose.

We went full on European football

and went for

the tie.

Sorry, Americans.

Could have been 0-0.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

40-40, great tennis score.

I mean, that's wonderful too.

But yeah, I saw the OT and it was winding down and it was 37-40.

I'm like, oh my gosh, the Cowboys are going to win.

And then I woke up this morning and I looked and I'm like, what?

Yeah.

Because ties just don't really happen that often

in football.

Not

in football,

not in professional football.

And I don't know, Calvin, if you can answer this for me, do they only do one overtime?

Because I know in baseball, well, those are X trainings.

It's who scores first.

Yeah.

So it's a long critique flaw of the NFL overtime system.

It used to be whoever scored first and then they changed it to both teams got it.

Or the other team got a chance to have the ball if the first team scored only a field goal.

Now they changed it to where both teams get a chance to possess the ball no matter what.

But it can still end in a tie, which is different than college football where college football has a completely different system where you just go back and forth until one team scores and one team doesn't and then it ends.

So it usually happens like once a season a game ends in a tie.

So it's not.

uncommon, but it's definitely not rare.

I guess I just don't

understand why is that sport of all sports?

Like why not just adopt what almost any other sport does, which is you do the overtime and whoever, whomever at the end of it has more points is the winner.

And if, if there is a double overtime, you can do it.

Me, I don't know.

I'd be on that.

I couldn't imagine double overtime in football, but you know, it seems so convoluted to

Cause as far as I remembered, it was always, as you said, Calvin, it was the first team to score in the overtime wins period.

That's it.

Done.

Right.

Which I didn't, I never liked because I just don't think that's fair.

But now it's like, well, we can do this thing.

You do that.

Just give, just play football for however many times in the, in the OT.

And then at the end of that, there you go.

It seems pretty simple.

Apparently not.

No, we get, we get a tie instead.

And I'm sure people in Wisconsin are like, this is great.

Well.

And that was last night's game.

Yep.

Sorry.

2-1-1 now.

Yeah, stayed all the way up for that.

On the really good side, the Brewers have locked up the best record in the league.

That's right.

Got a set of franchise record.

That's right.

They have now home field advantage.

That's

right.

And a week off, which they need.

That's right, everybody.

The Brewers are somehow, I don't know, because this weekend was not stellar, but that's

Baseball it's mathematics all the way and I want to say something else shout out to the Brewers because in that Stand the Reds also clinched the wild

card

So the Brewers put their logo up so they could take pictures as well That

was a

really classy

thing.

Yes,

that is the Brewers all the way in my opinion And I say one to the all all the people involved in that because I saw that at first I'm like I don't understand what this is then I read I'm like

That's so nice.

I mean, if you you can find it, I think it's in the Milwaukee Journal.

There's a big picture of it.

But yeah, they put up this great big graphic for Cincinnati and and gave them a chance to celebrate, too, which again, I thought that was just a

classic.

So the Brewers will begin the NLDS on Saturday.

Our opponent will be the winner of the Cubs.

Padres wild card match which starts today.

Okay, and we'll know by we'll know in a couple days who they're facing, you know As Paul put it it would be bet I think it would be best to have the Padres for many many reasons But yeah, we'll see what happens in those games because it's gonna be

Oh, it gets exciting.

It is exciting.

I mean, it's nice to not have to worry about like getting a while, because that's what happened before we

get in the car game.

And then we

lose.

And we lose and we're out and it's like, we got the post season.

I'm like, yeah, sort of, but okay.

But yes, very, very exciting, very, very excited for the Brewers, wearing one of my Brewers jerseys

today.

Thank you, Cassandra.

I was gonna say, you've had several compliments on that.

And Kevin and Ambrose says, there were three ties last year.

Wow.

I did not know that, Kevin.

Thank you for that.

Okay, we do want to get to actual news.

Oh, that's right.

We're radio show we are radio show a couple of changes as far as the governor's race here in Wisconsin happened over the weekend Yes, one person is out another one is in I wonder who dropped out already Republican businessman Bill Barion has dropped out of the race for governor This is from the Wisconsin examiner whitefish Bay manufacturer Bill Barion dropping out

saying he does not see a way for him to win the GOP nomination.

Aryan, who tried to compare himself to Donald Trump as a way of appealing to people, cited two reports from the Milwaukee Journal Sentinelist Week as his reason for leaving the race, saying they were, quote, clearly targeted to force me out of the race, unquote.

Okay, let's... I have questions.

Okay.

So the Journal Sentinel...

And this was Dan Bice.

And this is what Dan Bice does.

He's an investigative reporter and he looks for muck.

He takes feathers and he ruffles them.

He does.

And he's been doing this for a long time.

Journal Sentinel articles found that Barry had scrubbed the accounts he was following online.

There's more details.

We'll get to in just a moment.

So stay with us.

You are listening to Matt Nair on air.

We are coming to you across the Civic Media radio network and we'll be right back.

Stay with us.

Good morning.

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Before we went to the break, we were talking about one person is in, one person is out of the governor's race here in Wisconsin.

Bill Berry and the Republican has dropped out saying it's because of the journal Sentinel going after him and finding out he had followed some interesting

Interesting people on online.

He followed a queer, trans, non-binary adult film performer, along with authors of sexually explicit essays.

Baryon had entered the race talking about he's got conservative family values.

The Baryon campaign tried to downplay it this week, this was from the Wisconsin Examiner, but it traveled across the internet.

And one of the things was it's

It's the going after people It's the hypocrisy hypocrisy.

It's always the hypocrisy in all folks.

It's always that and the he says this was a variant says this was a major attack piece and for what for reading Nothing illegal.

Nothing unethical.

Nothing immoral just reading Wouldn't you want your political and business leaders to be widely read?

Yes, I would

And in my estimation, this was his opportunity to explain what he had learned from following these accounts.

Yeah.

But there are also other ways of, well, first of all, like just like a number one, like when you're going to run for an office like governor and you are going to run as a conservative mega candidate.

Your social media better be squeaky clean from top to bottom.

That's just all there is to

it Well, that's the automatic go-to right now for anybody who is up for anything

But my thought too is that look hey you want to learn?

Great.

I love that.

I want people to learn I want people to understand that these individuals pose no threat to our democracy No threat to our children no threat to anybody in a grand conspiratorial scheme as they've tried to put out there

And yes, you can find out things from these individuals.

I'm sure I'm sure they'd be, I've never, I don't know these individuals.

I don't know their online presence, but I would bet dollars to donuts that they have.

you know, information they're trying to relay as far as what their experiences are in the world.

But there are other official ways you can say where you'd be like, Hey, I've met with these people.

I've met with a trans ally group to talk about these things so I can become better informed.

I've spoken to these trans creators.

I've spoken to these individuals who are in the sphere of what I do not support, but I want to, there's a thousand better ways to do it than get

uptighten your britches when the press does a tiny bit of digging in your social media.

And now you want to turn it into, because the guy who says he wants to learn is now the guy saying, well, they're trying to do a hit piece.

No, they're doing their job.

They did the research.

You don't like that.

Own up to it.

And again, if you are following these various accounts to learn things, then tell us what you learned.

That could have diffused a whole lot of stuff.

Give us your insights now that you have been that you have been following these, but instead he tried to scrub them.

Internet is forever.

Absolutely.

Internet is forever.

Yep.

And that didn't work.

Yes.

So Bill Barion is out.

Missy Hughes.

on the Democratic side, is in.

And who is Missy Hughes?

Missy Hughes, the former economic development chief under Tony Evers, has jumped into the gubernatorial race.

The 57-year-old, who again served as the CEO of the Wisconsin Economic Development Corporation since 2019, stepped down, affirmed her post earlier this month.

She says, I'm not a politician, that's the point.

To create a prosperous economy for the future in all 72 counties,

We need a leader who knows what it takes to create jobs, support workers, and attract businesses.

And I do want to say that at least under Governor Evers, especially during COVID, he spent a lot of resources and a lot of attention on small businesses in Wisconsin.

Because as politicians will tell you.

They are the backbones of our nation.

Exactly.

And Missy Hughes is the one who helped implement those policies.

And I'm going to... The story about her announcement will be in the show notes.

Also, I'm going to look for the interview we did for her earlier this year, a few months ago, talking about her trip overseas with Governor Evers when tariffs...

new tariffs for being announced.

So that will be in the show notes as well when you go to civicmedia.us slash shows.

Look for Matt Nair on air and that will all be in today's show notes with the links you need for those, for those discussions.

But yeah, I'll put that in there as well.

So you can get to, get to know her a little bit

and then we will certainly make a reach and hopefully get around the show.

We're going to have Kelly Roy's on is going to be joining us.

I believe on Wednesday tomorrow, tomorrow, tomorrow at

1006.

All right.

So again, we're going to try and get as many candidates on as possible.

We've still got a long way to go before that.

We're more than a year out, folks.

Hunker down.

It's election season in Wisconsin again.

Okay.

News is coming up next, and then when we come back, Civic Media News Director Shaly Pittman will be joining us.

Stay close.

You are listening to Mattnair On Air.

This is the Civic Media Radio Network.

Good morning.

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Civic Media's news director, Shaly Pittman, joins us every Monday at this time.

She's joining us on the phone to give us a little update.

Good morning, Shaly.

How are you?

Good morning.

Thanks for having me.

Well, thank you for joining us.

I know you are in transit, so we appreciate you making time.

lots of things going on.

Right before we stopped down for the bottom of the hour news, we were talking a little bit about Missy Hughes, who has jumped into the gubernatorial race on the Democratic side, and Bill Barion, who has pulled out on the Republican side.

Yep, I heard you talking about that, and hey, it's the fall before an election year, so of course.

There's news over the weekend to talk about.

Missy Hughes is running for governor.

She joins a growing democratic field.

And, you know, where she's about 10 days out from quitting her job as the head of the Wisconsin Economic Development Corporation, or they don't like when you say this, but weedic.

So.

So there we go.

Oh yeah.

I appreciate that because I've called it Weedick for years too until I think it was when we were talking to Missy and it's like, we don't call it that.

It's like, oh, okay.

I haven't said that for a long time.

I just finally heard that actually.

But Missy Hughes has a long history in business, correct?

Yeah, she worked for 17 years.

As an executive at Organic Valley out in the Driftless region, you know, I'm sure you've seen their milk and dairy products.

It's a dairy cooperative in the dairy state.

And, you know, she headed up a weedic and over, she was kind of handed a lot to deal with, right?

The pandemic.

uh business recovery she was also handed the foxconn project you know we're still still talking about of what will become of those that land right and data centers and everything else but um renegotiating

that deal is something that she pointed to in her in her announcement.

It's so nice of you to call it a deal.

I call it a boondoggle.

The Foxconn con essentially, but yes, you're right.

Missy Hughes actually had to step in and make this into something which they did.

They made a deal with Microsoft and that is a continually ongoing.

ongoing thing will happen.

We'll see what happens with that.

But then on the Republican side, as we mentioned, Bill Barion is out.

Yep.

Yep.

He announced last Friday, kind of in the Friday news dump.

I heard you reading from his announcement.

And, you know,

I think that's kind of interesting, right?

He said, I consider myself intellectually curious.

And I thought it was a strength to read widely and show a broader intellectual interest.

And said that, you know, the media had essentially painted a sensational picture of him following certain accounts and that this was the product of opposition research that started in January.

So, you know, that was a quick run.

It was, but- We

hardly knew you,

Bill.

Well, right, but again, I go back to if that was his explanation for following these accounts, which I think is a legit, I think that's legitimate, then explain what you learned from following those accounts instead of trying to scrub them.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Also, I feel like Dan Vice, right?

using the, using the reporter, which I'm, I don't know if you personally have ever been the target of that, but using basic reporting that he is doing to say, this is what has happened.

This is what is out there.

This is what I found as a way of saying, well, it's because of the media.

No, it's because, well, you said opposition research there and other people did the research and we found the information and there, there it is.

And that's it.

And I just feel like,

Dan Bice should not be the scapegoat here.

Well, and it's not opposition research has been part of politics for decades.

Centuries, right?

Centuries.

That's nothing new, Shelley, right?

No, that's a well established part of the political process.

Yeah.

And I always appreciate a good Dan Bice article.

But I mean, he shouldn't be surprised that they were digging around because that's what happens.

This is just, that's pretty standard in politics.

And as Greg said, this has been going on forever.

It's been going on

forever.

So, like I said, Bill Bice, I mean, Bill Bice, my goodness, sorry.

So many names, so many people's names, everybody.

Bill Barry, and we hardly knew thee, but we also shally got another very expected candidate dropping into the race last week with Tom Tiffany.

Yeah, it grew before it shrunk again in the Republican primary.

Tom, Tom Tiffany announced on the Dan O'Donnell show and then a day later had his launch event in a barn in Wausau.

I was there, I joined WXBO reporter Isabella Nieto at this frankly very beautiful pastoral

you

know, in

Central Wisconsin.

And, you know, he's going to be the front-runner.

He's a former state lawmaker, largely during the Walker administration.

He's also a former dam tender.

You guys know what that

is?

A what tender?

A dam tender.

A

dam tender.

Not the

curse word.

Not the curse word.

Actual physical

damage.

I know what a damn tender is.

I know what a damn tender, but for those who don't, let them know.

Tell them and, you know, inform them.

It's something I've learned in the last several months.

A damn tender is someone who makes sure that the damn is functional.

Tiffany described it as, you know, the gubernatorial cabinet Tom Tiffany described it as getting paid to walk as dog.

I believe along the willow flowage, right?

Um, but, you know, Wisconsin is also the, the state with, I think the, the second worst record for damn failure.

So, you know, everything, everything has a wider focus.

So one could say that

he's a damn failure.

Uh, well, Greg,

she can't, she can't comment on it.

I just, I couldn't, I couldn't, I

couldn't resist the wonderful play on words.

Thank you.

I want to go back to.

Are we paying Tom Tiffany to walk his dog?

Well, he's no longer a damn tender.

He's now a congressman, right?

Oh, but you know, that's how you got to start.

You got to start in local politics.

He's a state.

He was a state lawmaker for many years during the Walker administration, notably one kind of the key policy I remember from him that ended up coming to fruition was

uh... lifting the mining moratorium in wisconsin and he he ended up doing that in twenty seventeen uh... uh... former governor stout walker find that the bill into law course seventeen but uh... that ended kind of uh... two decades long run in in wisconsin uh... of uh... no new uh... kind of exploratory uh... metallic mining so uh...

And by the way, if you're just joining us, we are joined by Civic Media's news director, Shaly Pittman, joins us every Monday at this time just to do a little recap in case there's so much news happens now on a daily basis and it doesn't stop on weekends.

So Shaly is here to give us a little update on things.

And we've been talking about Bill Berrien is out of the gubernatorial race.

We have Wendy Hughes, and Missy Hughes is in on the Democratic side.

And of course, Tom Tiffany announcing as well.

I'm curious though, Shelley, as far as Tom Tiffany's record goes, I'm curious as what he's going to tell people he did for Wisconsin as opposed to just things he stopped.

Well, you know, I am, I'm not, uh, I'm not Congressman Tom Tiffany, but I know he touted

things like Wisconsin's education record, or not touted, but pointed to Wisconsin's education record.

You know, I think he listed a number of pretty straightforward, Republican proposals, and you know, he, I'm trying to remember, you can find her full article at WXTO though, and you can also find the press,

video of the press from after his official announcement or official launch.

in a speech that he gave last Wednesday.

So I encourage you to go and

watch it.

You can check out all that stuff at XCO.

You can check out civicmedia.us slash news.

That will be up.

That's a great website with all of the news from all over Wisconsin and things like that also end up in civic media today, which is the brand new newsletter that no one asked me to plug just now.

Also, we haven't talked about the popcorn king in a while.

Assembly Speaker Robin Voss, I could get

one wish partially granted regarding Michael Gabelman, everybody.

Remember Michael Gabelman?

So what's going on with Michael Gabelman?

Well, he could lose his law license at least for a couple of years or longer, or he could not.

It's up in the air, but a referee appointed, a court referee has recommended that

Michael Gableman lose his law license for three years.

Of course, Michael Gableman, the man behind the taxpayer probe into the 2020 election, who alleged vast conspiracy and the presidential results, but was not able to find it.

And of course, also a former justice on the Wisconsin Supreme Court.

The case to...

advocate for Gableman to lose his license was brought by the liberal legal outfit law forward.

And in a statement last Friday, they said that a three year suspension of his license wasn't enough.

And the final determination will be made by the state Supreme Court, his former, his former, you know, coworkers.

There

you go.

Well, and I was trying to do the

math and I was trying and I just want to make clear too at the beginning of when we talk about this too.

This is something Robin Voss would like to see happen too because it has been an embarrassment for Robin Voss because he's the one who appointed him and Robin Voss because of everything that Michael Gabelman did, which as you said, Shali just now was taxpayer funded led Robin Voss to say the 2020 election was safe and fine and

secure exactly.

Yeah.

We're going to continue our discussion with Shaly Pittman, Civic Media News Director on the other side.

Stay close.

You're listening to the vast statewide, countrywide, because up around the world and the app, the Civic Media Radio Network, we will be right back.

Good morning.

Welcome back to Metinair on Air.

Jane Metinair, Greg Bach, our resident young person, Kelvin, on the board coming to you from our studio at Radio Park in Racine.

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Civic Media News Director, Shelly Pittman is our guest.

She joins us every Monday at this time to do a little recap of the news because so much happens every day now in the news.

We wanted to talk a little bit about the environmental projects in Wisconsin.

Shelly, what can you tell us about that, especially about this

You had mentioned the mining now opening back up in northern Wisconsin.

I understand there's some movement there.

Yeah, there's a lot going on interrelated with politics and the environment.

So let's start with the mining exploratory drilling.

So a Canadian mining company called Greenlight Metals

says it's found gold and copper and exploratory drilling in the Schwalmingen-Nicolet National Forest, that's according to reporting from WPR.

And I wanted to highlight that there are, here there's an opportunity to learn more if you're in the area on what's next from Greenlight Metals this Friday in Medford at 6 p.m.

at the P-town Saloon and Grill.

Hey, if you live in that area, it would be a great idea for you to attend this.

I'd love to hear what they have to say.

This is kind of preliminary, so I think we have a while to go, but this is kind of a testing area.

you know, this could come to Wisconsin.

There's another environmental project, though, kind of the other part of the state in your neck of the woods that is happening tonight, or at least is inching forward tonight, the village of Caledonia.

in that, near Racine, could inch closer to another Microsoft data center.

We talked about Foxconn before and how the village of Mount Pleasant has turned, or that old Foxconn facility or planned facility has been turned in, is being turned into a Microsoft data center.

Well, there's another one potentially coming to the village of Caledonia.

And so tonight,

the village plan commission is slated to consider rezoning the land for that project.

I know we've heard a lot lately on the civic media radio network about all kinds of data center stuff, data centers all along Lake Michigan.

So I thought folks might be interested in that.

And that's something, you know, I mean,

We don't have a lot of time and I know this is probably a bigger all-encompassing story.

But ever since the Microsoft announcement on the Foxconn land, I feel like it has just been a barrage of data center information coming through the news as far as businesses wanting to do that.

I've heard, I've heard lobbyist commercials on the radio.

It's becoming.

the hotly debated topic in the state, especially along our eastern coast that has access to the lake.

Well, it's all about the water.

It's always about the water.

And that's just something, Charlie, I'm saying out loud now.

Go on.

Which was also the concern, by the way, during Foxconn, right?

There was concern that the Foxconn project would violate

the Great Lakes water compact,

right?

And I remember having this discussion seven years ago, but I did take a look at the proposed water usage and some of the closed youth facilities.

And that's an area for further research, I think.

I think it's not as much as...

the Foxconn project had proposed.

You also mentioned there's a lot of information coming out about data centers.

Well, in the village of Caledonia, it took a while to know who was proposing this data center.

It actually took open records and folks submitting open records requests to find out that it was Microsoft and it took a while.

That is okay.

I

know you can't comment on this because you have journalistic integrity, but I don't.

That is so sneaky that we actually have to file FOIA in order to find out who is behind this.

That's just wrong.

It is.

And it makes you wonder, why wouldn't they want their name to be out there?

Are they doing something bad?

I mean, you hide yourself like that.

It just makes you go, hmm, that seems not...

Good.

And going back to water, I mean, this was the whole thing with Foxconn.

That's why they wanted to be here.

There's lots of people that want our water, you guys.

Yes, they do.

Lots and lots.

And we're talking about billions of gallons.

A report from the Alliance for the Great Lakes, again, that's very much on one side.

But they found that data centers could withdraw as much as 150 billion gallons over the next five years in the US.

Something to keep in mind.

Absolutely.

Good, good morning and welcome, welcome to Matt Nair on air.

Jane Matt Nair, Greg Bach, Gavin Butenoff coming to you live from our studio here at Radio Park in Racine.

You can always join us, call or text.

The number is the same.

855-752-4842.

You can also leave a comment if you're watching on the live stream on Facebook, YouTube and what used to be Twitter.

Coming up a little bit later on this hour after the 1030 news,

A segment we call Audio Sorbet, where we talk about things outside of the news.

So we can all catch a breath.

Today is National Coffee Day, Greg Buck.

Yes, it is.

So we're going to talk about, do you drink coffee?

How much coffee do you drink?

Coffee prices are up 20% right now.

Will you be changing your coffee habits anytime soon?

Maybe you don't drink coffee.

I know.

Pat's producer, Pat Crullos producer, Parker, they get up at four o'clock in the morning.

He doesn't drink coffee.

He drinks water.

The youth.

The youths.

Kids.

The youths.

So we're going to be talking about coffee later on this hour in audio survey, and then we'll wrap up the show.

As we always do with this, shouldn't be a thing.

Today it's the Cover Me edition.

So stay tuned for that.

Right now, we are delighted to be joined by our next guest.

He is with UW Madison.

David Drake is here.

I call him my bird buddy.

But he is all things with wildlife and outdoor things.

Good morning, David.

How are you?

Good morning, Jane.

And I have never drank one cup of coffee in my life.

Never?

Never.

Never, ever.

Never, ever, ever.

And I don't drink hot drinks.

typically even the winter, I don't drink.

Okay.

All right.

I know we're going to talk about birds and the environment.

That's great.

But can we?

Okay.

And

we're going to examine you now.

I

get my brain around them because I didn't start drinking coffee until much later in my life.

So I understand that.

And but you don't do hot drinks at all.

Like how

do you have drinks?

I know it doesn't qualify as a drink, but doesn't.

But it also you can eat it in a cup soup.

Oh, I will eat soup.

OK.

Or slower power if you want to verb that.

So he does

drink hot

drinks.

Well, it's not.

Soup

is not.

Soup does not qualify as a drink.

I told you.

The closest thing I get to hot drinks probably is drinking scotch in the winter.

OK.

Fair enough.

It makes you warm inside.

100 percent.

I am.

So

even when you went

to college and stuff, you never felt the need for caffeine.

Nothing.

No, because I never studied in college, so I didn't need to stay awake.

No, I was not a model student in college, but don't do not follow my follow his path.

That's really funny.

Yes.

Well, again, if you coffee, we're talking all things coffee after 1030.

So stick around for that.

You can be like Dave.

I mean, coffee is not good for you.

It's not.

Well, it's like anything else.

It's in moderation.

If you drink a cup or two a day, I don't think anyone's really gonna have a problem with it.

Like I had a friend who drank so much coffee and his body became so used to it that when he didn't have the enough

he

needed in a certain point in the morning, he'd get a headache.

I used to, that used to happen to me.

So

that's a problem.

Yeah.

So anyway, we're talking all things coffee after 1030 for audio sorbet.

Right now we're talking about birds.

We're talking about ducks.

And this is a serious thing.

Quite, quite honestly, Green Bay area ducks from this, from the Wisconsin Examiner Green Bay area ducks.

contaminated with PFOS, and so now they are limiting consumption.

Tell us about that, David.

Yeah, so maybe we'll back up for just a minute.

I know, I'm sure a lot of your listeners have heard of the acronym PFOS and may not exactly know what it's all about.

So let's give a little background on that if we can quickly.

So PFOS is P-F-A-S.

It stands for perfluoroalkyl.

or polyfluoroalkyl substances.

They are a human-made chemical.

They've been around since World War II, and they were initially created as part of the Manhattan Project, which was the atomic bomb project to help us end World War II.

And since then, they've been commercialized primarily by DuPont, but there's other...

companies that have certainly taken up PFAS for commercialization.

And depending on the use of PFAS and the state, some uses of PFAS have been outlawed.

But again, it depends on the use in the state.

But they're called a forever chemical PFAS because they don't break down.

And they don't degenerate and they were now used commercially they're used primarily for heat grease and water resistant properties so two very common Uses of PFOS that people are probably familiar with is one is Teflon so we need Teflon coated cooking where it has contains PFOS It's also It's also a main component in firefighting foam

right

and so a lot of times especially at airports

where you've got perhaps chemicals that are not going to be distinguished or extinguished, excuse me, by water, they'll use that firefighting foam to kind of suck out the oxygen from that fire.

But the other thing about PFOS is not only they are forever chemical, but they travel quite well through water.

So they're in groundwater.

PFOS are in groundwater quite commonly.

They are also linked pretty

Directly to a lot of chronic diseases, especially some cancers.

Yes, so it's a real issue.

It is a real issue and There's some suggestion that every American has some level of PFAS in their body already just simply because we've been so exposed to them in So many different types of ways and so yeah, so that's the background of PFAS now they get back to the wildlife issue

is again because PFAS is found in soil but it also like I said travels very well in water especially groundwater and so the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources just issued a health advisory to not eat mallard ducks which is a native species of duck and not eat wood ducks another native species of duck in the lower Green Bay area.

And is it just specific to

that area, David?

It is just specific to

that lower green bay

area?

It is for those two species of docks, but the DNR also just issued a food advisory for a NIDA county for some fish species, and they're suggesting in, I think it was the moan lake chain, M-O-E-N lake chain, to not eat any fish out of that lake chain at all right now.

They also have an advisory for not eating deer liver.

I think around Stella, the town of Stella, which I believe is in Oneida County.

And obviously, you know, the liver is kind of the filter of the body.

So that would make sense as to why it's accumulated in the body.

But a lot of animals that are higher up on the trophic level or higher up on the food chain have PFOS because PFOS bio accumulates.

What's happening with those ducks?

I'm sure is number one they're in the water and so if they're if they're drinking any of that water They're probably consuming it that way, but they're also both wood ducks and mallards are herbivores So they're eating the plant life that's on that water and that plant life is absorbing the the PFAS in the water and I'm sure that's how it's getting to the ducks that way and so

And then so anything that eats a duck, you know, that's above the doctor chain is going to consume that PFAS as well and So they're issuing issuing health advisories about that and the other thing I'll just point out quickly is I know people are concerned about this rightfully so and if you are concerned about just PFAS contamination or piece of PFAS

just exposure or where it is in the landscape.

The Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources has a very good website that will track PFAS exposure throughout Wisconsin.

They also issue the health advisories.

So you can go to the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources and you can see the health advisories for the areas of the state, what to eat, what not to eat, things of that nature.

I've got it right here.

If you're just joining us, by the way, on Matt Naranair, we're speaking to David Drake, who is a professor for Mewtwo Madison, a wildlife expert.

And we're talking about PFAs in our ducks and other animals.

And something, and whether or not I don't know what you know about this, David, is just the fact that when people talk about this topic, PFAs, they might say, well, these are necessary things for our products to do the thing.

And well, what can we do?

We don't need these PFAs because Minnesota has outlawed them.

So there are other ways of achieving these products or doing what we need to do without these forever chemicals as well.

So it's actually up to our lawmakers to look at the law or look at the situations and say, all right, what can we do next?

That's a whole of the conversation about talking to your lawmakers.

But I just want to make it clear that PFAs

aren't a necessary evil.

They can be prevented.

They don't have to be

used.

And there can be substitutes.

There can be substitute.

And speaking to the tracking website, I will have that tracking website in the show notes today from the Wisconsin DNR.

So everyone who honestly doesn't even matter where you live in Wisconsin, just check it out because you never know.

It's if they're using them, they're going to be everywhere.

Just check it out.

Make sure you're keeping yourself safe.

Well, and from what I understand also, David, that one of the problems with PFAS is we don't have an effective way to filter them

right now.

Right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So let me just back up also.

Greg said I'm a wildlife expert and that is true.

I am not a chemical expert.

I am not an environmental toxicologist and things like that.

So the PFAS, this is some information I've done some research on.

Improperation for the show and sure and just general knowledge of being aware of PFAS But but please do educate yourself and and do not take what I say about PFAS for for For the faith because I am not an expert on that.

So I do want to I just want to call sure sure sure But but yes, Greg.

I my understanding is that there are substitute chemicals so for some substitute products So, you know, for example, like we don't use Teflon

In our cooking where in our house and it's just simply it's probably for health reasons It's just simply because I think we found some pans.

I think cook better.

So there are some substitutes that actually work better PFAS is in a lot of water resistant clothing for example So there's different ways of finding some clothing that mace

be a substitute for sure.

As you get into some of the more specific chemical uses, again, like firefighting foam, I'm not sure what a substitute is for that to put that fire out, but I'm assuming there would be something.

I just don't know what it would be.

But yeah, I think if you want to be careful, you can make good consumer choices and just do a little research and find out.

But if it's not PFOS, it's

You know PCBs or it's heavy metals or micro plastic CWD, right?

Yeah, pick your poison, you know But but we have a history of this, you know, we went through this with DDT Back in the 50s and 60s and then finally outlawed that in the United States in the 70s and There's bands on salmon, you know, you're only supposed to eat I think

one or two salmon a month depending on where you are up and down the Lake Michigan coast because of heavy metals like mercury and PCBs.

So this idea about having food advisories, unfortunately, is not new.

It's just a matter of making sure you're aware of them and educating yourself about them if you're going to consume food off the landscape.

In the 60s, when I was growing up, they used to send a truck through my hometown, which was tiny, to spray for mosquitoes.

And we used to run behind it.

And everything is fine except for that third eye in the back of my head.

There's nothing to worry about or see.

It's all just

fine.

That's a useful eye.

Really, to take the conversation out into the into, we're going to grab some water and some snacks and come back though.

My vote.wi.gov.

If these are concerns of yours as far as the environment you live in, our landscape, our

preserving our natural resources and our own health.

Go there, talk to your lawmakers and make sure they understand and they vote in the way that protects us.

Sorry to turn this into a political thing, but we got to raise our voices to let them know we care.

We're going to continue our conversation with David Drake with UW Madison.

We're talking about butterflies on the way.

Stay close.

You are listening to Matt Nair on air.

This is the Civic Media Radio Network.

Don't go

away.

Good morning.

Welcome back to Met and Air on Air.

Jane Met and Air.

Greg Buck.

Calvinator on the board coming to you from our studio at Radio Park in Racine.

You can always join us.

Call or text at 855-752-4842.

Leave a comment if you're watching on the live stream on Facebook, YouTube, and what used to be Twitter.

Our guest is David Drake from UW Madison.

We were talking about PFAS in Ducks, and I just want to share this real briefly, David, from Ronnie and Horicon.

And again, you don't have to comment on this, but one substitute for

and firefighting foam is foam made from soybeans, which is an alternative.

And so we'll see if we can track that down.

Maybe we can get a hint from Darren Bunrudin

when we

have him on Wednesday.

Lord knows we need to sell some soybeans in this country.

Be good to have a use for soybeans right

now.

i need to go back to something greg said about vote dot wisconsin dot gov or whatever

my vote dot wi dot gov yeah

i appreciate that greatly i just need to mention i need to be agnostic because

i

represent the

university of course

today so i

just

want to say leave me out of that

absolutely

i support what you're saying

yeah absolutely that was a that was a that was a uh yes bipartisan statement to say let your voices be

heard

I love it.

But I was going to mention the same thing about soybeans, Greg.

Yeah.

I'm not I'm not plugging a political party.

I just know you still got a lot of soybeans to sell, France.

They're available.

This is

all

we're saying.

I wanted to talk with you briefly, David.

I saw an article that said that monarch butterflies are on the move.

They have started their migration.

And for people who don't know this, they have an astonishingly long trip.

Yes, they do.

And as a matter of fact, I was just out on Friday.

Friends prairie out west of Madison and the monarchs galore out there just taking advantage of the prairie plants

really

there's wonderful to see them Yeah, the monarchs are awesome.

I mean they're you know, obviously a butterfly and not we don't consider them wildlife We don't typically think of insects in the wildlife world, but again, I know enough about monarchs to be dangerous So I'll I'll espouse about monarchs and they are awesome that you know that yes the the migration pattern is fantastic One of the things

that I greatly appreciate about monarchs is one of the species that it seems like everybody knows them.

Everybody can relate to them.

Identify them.

Yeah, absolutely.

Just

like a robin or a whale or whatever the case might be.

And that to me is what is more important than anything else about the monarchs is that people can see them and then they can localize it and they can personalize it.

And they say, well, I'm not seeing many monarchs this year.

And so that opens an avenue for saying, well,

climate change is affecting the monarchs or the lack of prairie is affecting the monarchs

and we're

having less milkweed

and all

that kind of stuff and so So that's what I greatly appreciate about the monarchs is it it's a hook to start talking to the public about why should you care about the outdoor world and what can you do that about that and and that is a

Wonderful thing about the monarchs, among many other things.

Because monarchs are pollinators.

Like so many other insects are pollinators.

And that's why it's important if you can to have native plants in your backyard, especially milkweed.

Milkweed is very specific to monarchs.

That's the only thing that they will lay their eggs on.

You looked at me with the eyes of confirmation.

I'm like, I don't know.

Well, I'm just going to go with this.

I saw a monarch butterfly once and it was beautiful.

Yeah.

Yeah.

They told me in graduate school just to BS with authority and no way to question.

So just keep doing that.

Say it like you believe it and you know what you're talking about and you'll be fine.

Yeah.

And again, you know, I mean, I know enough about monarchs to be dangerous, but there there's been a tremendous amount of research about monarchs and just pat it was called patch size.

So how much

How big of an area of blooming flowers do they need to sustain themselves, to continue on the migration, things like that?

And there's some suggestion that even small patches of flowering plants in some ways boulevard in the city

might

be enough to...

you know where the monarchs can find some refuge there set down for a minute on their on their migration pattern or set down and and feed and even during the summer and things like that.

So it's it's interesting that maybe the monarchs don't need these great big expanses of prairie like you know was initially thought that they may actually survive okay on some of these

smaller

smaller plots yeah which is pretty cool and again you know we see them

We see them here in Madison, now moving through as well.

And it's awesome to see a monarch.

They're going to, they're going to Mexico, right?

The, the monarchs are heading to Mexico.

Do the monarchs who make it to Mexico, David, and then over winter there, are they the same ones that come back?

Let's go with that.

I don't know.

Uh, I don't

know.

Is PJ least down the street?

Yeah.

He's just

down the hall.

I just saw you froze.

You're like, yeah.

Yeah, if you want to put him on, I don't know about that.

What I will tell you about migratory birds is that, yes, it can be the same bird that will come back in that area.

But I also do know that migratory birds, depending on the species and depending on the year, that they can suffer some pretty heavy mortalities.

And so the opportunity or the chance or odds are that it probably is not necessarily that same monarch that's coming back.

That's a long trip, boy.

There's such little wings.

I know.

You know, I go and run, I try to run three miles sometimes.

I'm thinking, if I can't run three miles in a monorakus flying that long, what the heck's wrong with me?

Maybe

I should start drinking more coffee.

Well, if

you just run to Mexico once and run back, they're like, are you going for a run?

No, I did it back in 1992.

I'm good.

David Drake

is with UW Madison.

He is my bird buddy.

I really appreciate your time, David.

Thank you so very, very much.

Always good to be on with all of you and thank you for inviting me.

Absolutely.

We have news coming up next and then when we return it is audio sorbet and we're talking about your coffee habits.

Maybe you're like David Drake, you don't even.

touch the stuff.

Maybe you're like some of the texts that we're getting in and you've got fancy ways to coffee.

That's all coming up.

Stick around for Audio Sorbet.

News is next.

Keep it here on the vast statewide, countrywide pick us up around the globe on the Civic Media Radio Network.

Thank you.

Way down among Brazilians, coffee beans grow by the billions, so they've got to find those extra cups to fill.

They've got an awful lot of coffee in Brazil.

Good morning.

Welcome back to Matt Nair on Air.