We’re Reached An Impasse (Hour 1)

Good morning and welcome.

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Jane Matt Nair, Greg Bach and Calvin Butenoff coming to you live from our studio here at Radio Park in Racine.

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Our friend and colleague and host of Amicus Law Review on Saturdays from 9 to 11 across the network, Jim Santel, is going to be joining us.

Donald Trump, not happy with the Federalist Society.

Who have helped him pick his all the judges he's been appointing.

What world do we live in when the Republicans like I don't like the Federalist Society right now?

I know.

So among many other things we will talk about that with Jim Santel coming up after the 930 News.

In hour number two, 1035, the Acme packing company sports guru Paul Noonan.

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Another win.

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Yeah, six to one, I believe.

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So yeah, no budget here in Wisconsin.

Whatever.

State budget.

This from WPR.

Sean Johnson with the byline state budget talks called off.

as Governor Tony Evers and Republican lawmakers hit an impasse.

This means Republicans who run the legislature will write their next budget themselves, which they want to do anyway.

Yeah, they made it very clear when Governor Evers presented his biennium budget to them, to the people, and they said, you know what?

This really needs a lot of empty spaces.

Let's go ahead and clear out

between one to 612, and that's the specific number, that they cleared out of the budget because they thought that those, they don't want to fund those things.

No.

No, a lot of those being social programs, things that help people.

Things that they heard about when they took the joint finance committee around Wisconsin and had four meetings around the state, where the vast majority of people said what they were concerned about was funding education, taking care of healthcare.

And childcare

and childcare.

Yeah.

Yeah now that we're not gonna do now

We don't want policy to be mixed up with finances what they said to defend the reason why they cut those things out That's a really really cowardly and stupid thing to say.

We don't want to pull we don't want to Combine finance with policy.

How do you think it's isn't

all

policy?

What's that word?

Financed.

Oh, there it is

Yeah, that's that's pretty remarkable.

It just goes back to the whole thing We've been talking about for it feels like years.

It's probably decades and it feels like decades they cannot give Tony Evers a win for anything for anything and there are things that are

that have come to that state house besides the budget that have been seen as bipartisan, that the popcorn king won't bring to a vote, won't allow it to happen, has spoken horribly about.

I mean, we just played a couple of days ago a video of him speaking to Lou Ann Byrd where he says, ObamaCare is free.

This is the guy in charge of the assembly right now.

And they just will not give anyone an inch.

No wins for anyone.

And that includes me and you.

Well,

they want wins.

Yeah.

It's just not for folks run-of-the-mill folks.

No.

If you're not a donor, you know.

Do you really need anything?

Do I really have to give you anything if you don't give me any money?

Billionaires, millionaires, landlords, you name it, business owners.

They get the wins.

They get the cuts.

They get the tax cuts.

They get the...

It's interesting that you mentioned landlords because I was listening on the way in to Pat Crichtlow.

Mornings with Pat Crichtlow from 6 to 9.

There it is.

6 to 9 a.m.

And he mentioned as well that Wisconsin legislature has a very high number of lawmakers

Who are landlords?

Yep.

Both sides, too, by the way.

Oh, yeah.

Both sides.

Absolutely.

Not just one side.

But it does make you wonder if we should be allowing those people, therefore, to write legislation affecting things that they own.

But I guess that's just the way it works.

Anyway, yeah, we have no budget, even though top Republican leaders who have often criticized they jump on Governor Evers all the time for not engaging with them.

He's not nice enough to them.

But all of them have called their budget talks up to this point, good faith.

It was all good faith.

Until it wasn't.

Also, I'm just going to put it out here.

I've met Tony Evers.

I know people who know Tony Evers.

Tony Evers is a delightful human being.

And just because he's not easy to quote unquote talk to doesn't mean he's, I don't buy that.

And if anything, if he's not easy to talk to, maybe he's frustrated because

all the items that he put in there, you want to strip out.

So maybe you're not the top of his list right now, or- A placating?

Maybe he's not sitting there going to give you 20 minutes of back and forth chummy banter.

He wants to get to work.

But this is about the health and wealth of Wisconsinites, specifically the children.

And they want to rip out everything that helps kids, helps family, helps, and helps businesses, by the way, because these are investments.

Investments, not-

worthless, mindless, fraudulent spending.

These are, this is about investing in the state, investing in the people and investing in the future, which have ROI and have been studied over and over, that when states invest in their people, the economy grows, morale grows, health gets better, and just productivity rises.

So,

I guess what did you say, Jane?

The budget now just has the words the and we'll finance the paper

clips.

Yeah, and we'll see what they're gonna fill in between all the ands and the thes.

I guess what jumps out at me from this article again from WPR is the governor's office said the governor was ready to accept the GOP proposed tax cuts, including an income tax cut targeting middle class and working families.

and the elimination of income taxes for certain retirees, but Republicans couldn't agree on the governor's priorities, which included money for childcare, K-12 schools, and the University of Wisconsin system.

And some of those tax cuts, by the way, well, like, you know, I mean, they're not, they're heavily defended by right-leaning think tanks, but

economically, they don't make sense when you're cutting taxes for retire folks.

It doesn't have the economic impact they want.

It looks good on a headline.

It looks

good on paper.

And it sounds good to seniors.

But there are other ways of allowing seniors to keep their money.

But this is to me a, hey, seniors, come here once.

How would you like to not pay taxes after you retire?

I would be immediately hesitant on that one.

What kind of economic impact does they have on the rest of the state then?

What tax

Revenue is the state in a state that's already anemic in there in their spending of their money What's gonna happen to the money that they said that I save or let me rephrase that If I'm not paying my taxes in for my retirement, right?

How are things going to then be funded?

Tax cuts for the rich

That fixes everything, Greg.

You're

right, Jane.

That just fixes everything.

You know what?

I'm going to go.

You're right.

We're done.

I think we've done everything we can

do.

It's an easy, easy fix.

Robin Voss, assembly speaker and Representative Mark Bourne of Beaver Dam, the co-chair of the Legislature's Budget Committee, thanked Governor Evers and his staff for trying to reach consensus.

Quote, assembly Republicans remain open to discussions with Governor Evers

in hopes of finding agreement.

However, after meeting until late last night and again this morning, it appears the two sides remain far apart.

Yeah, because Governor Evers would like to, I don't know, again, address our child care issues, our health care issues, our education issues.

The only thing that the Republicans, at least from what I can recall, their only platform is cutting taxes for rich people.

and demonizing any sort of spending for folks who need it programmed.

I mean, once again, in that video with Robin Voss and Lou Ann Bird, the way he speaks about, like, we have too much welfare.

Well, what does that even, what do you mean by welfare?

Do you mean, like, you don't like helping poor people?

Then why?

And she asked that question.

Why can't you help?

Oh, they don't, we spend too much.

Okay.

Prove it.

Well.

And again, it's, now they're coming back to municipalities and saying, you know, like the lead issue, the lead pipes issue.

It's like, well, you know, yes, we have this $4 billion surplus we're still sitting on.

But you guys got to figure it out yourselves Ron John Wisconsin senior senator Ron Johnson said that yeah about the lead pipe issue Which is not just a city of Milwaukee problem.

Nope.

This is a statewide problem and Ron Johnson has said yeah Well send it back to the state you guys better figure it out.

Yeah, pull yourselves up by your lead

bootstraps And yeah, if the if the if the government if

the health and human services department is going to cut lead abatement programs for this, for the state, not the city, but the state.

And it's being left this, it's left to our state house and medicine.

Well, those kids and those families are going to have lead because the state is not going to do anything.

They won't spend a dime and maybe their church can help them.

Maybe they can snap their finger.

Imagine it's like, it's sad because watching our elected officials who are in power,

openly, actively, and unabashedly not care about its people is embarrassing.

And I know for a fact at least three people at the top of my brain who said they will never either move here or move back to the state because of the way they treat the citizens and the way specifically they treat women with regard to the 1849 abortion ban.

But that's another conversation.

But just our reputation now is terrible in this state because it's just not, it's

backwards.

Although we did, we did put up the big cheater wall.

We were successful in stopping Elon.

Oh, yes.

Well, and that's the thing is that folks is what we're talking about.

And that's how you can do something.

You can go to myvote.wi.gov because we know you have a voice.

You've shown it to us.

Yes.

We've seen it in action before.

It works.

Call your reps and tell them we want a budget and we want a fair budget and we want a budget that works together.

And like childcare.

Yes.

Let's work on childcare and do something about that.

We're going to continue this conversation.

We have someone on the live stream with a comment actually on the text line.

We will come back with that.

We'd love to hear from you.

855-752-4842.

You are listening to Matt Nair on air.

This is the Civic Media Radio Network.

Good morning.

Welcome.

Welcome to Matt and air on air Jane Matt and air Greg Bach the board lord coming to you from our studio here at radio park in Racine You can always join us call or text the number is the same 8 5 5 7 5 2 4 8 4 2 You can also leave a comment if you're watching on a live stream on Facebook YouTube and what used to be Twitter talking about the lack of a budget in Wisconsin after talks called off

between Governor Evers and Republican lawmakers because they can't get anywhere, so the Republicans are gonna write up their own budget.

Yeah, totally.

It's

just perfectly fine.

I'm sure

it'll be great.

Yes, I'm sure we'll all agree with everything in it.

Before we went to the break, we did have Phil from Mount Pleasant texting in, why don't we address Robin Voss's issues by boycotting his popcorn business?

He does own a popcorn company in

Burlington yeah from what I have found And he is a he is a landlord in white water.

I know mm-hmm.

He loves to protect landlords

I've been I've been boycotting his popcorn for nearly 48 years cuz I've never had it once I'm okay with that

you're you're good with that.

Yeah, don't feel deprived No, no if you would like to join the conversation about this lack of a budget again because

Governor Evers is pushing for more money for education, more money for health, more money for childcare.

Republicans, not so much.

855-752-4842.

Cassandra from New London is on the line.

Good morning, Cassandra.

Thank you for joining us.

Hi, good morning.

Good morning.

So this budgeting, as I've mentioned before, just irritates the heck out of me.

However, we just had a town hall with my rep, Dave Murphy.

I no longer feel bad about calling these people out.

Dave Murphy, Rachel Guevara is our senator, and there were suggestions given to them if they really didn't want to take out of our surplus to fund public schools and special education and childcare.

While there are some of these

You know more affluent school districts.

Like why don't we freeze, you know, their funding to like add funding to the rural schools?

Oh, well, no, we can't do that.

How are we gonna explain that to all the rich people?

Okay, what about?

Why can't we tax like the people that are making more than a million dollars in the state and gave Murphy's response as well then all the rich people are gonna leave the state and it's like Okay Do you have any proof of that right?

No, they can't give any proof of any of that stuff

They

can't.

And that's the thing is we couldn't.

What about all the regular people who might want to leave the state and go to Minnesota or Iowa or Michigan or any or Illinois where there's lots happening in all of those states?

Cassandra, if I'm not mistaken, you're the one who told us that you went to one of the four joint finance committee meetings and waited, you said, I believe you said nine hours at the end of the, when you finally reached there, you said like, well, everything has been said and you're going to do nothing.

Yeah, that was me.

Yeah, I just basically told them I said, listen, like, you guys know what we want.

And it's shameful that we can't even pay for special education for our public schools, but you're willing to bend over backwards to take care of all the private schools and pay for vouchers.

And Cassandra, when you said that to them, I'm just curious if, you know, did anybody even flinch?

Did that make any of them look the least bit embarrassed?

But not particularly.

There were a couple of the gentlemen that were up there.

And they just, you know, I got like one little smirk from who I think is the chairman whose name I don't recall, but just basically smirks and just like, oh, well, thanks.

Appreciate your time.

Thank you for waiting for nine hours.

Adorable little opinions you all have.

Thanks for coming out.

Appreciate it, Cassandra.

Thank you so much for checking in.

And thank you for going to those things and doing that stuff.

I can only imagine your frustration, but...

I think if we don't turn out for that stuff, that makes it even worse.

Yeah.

And just so you just, just so everyone knows in case you want to call them because they, you know, they might not represent you, but they are the co-chairs of the joint finance committee that is Senator Howard Markline of spring green and representative Mark born of beaver.

Damn.

Both of them, uh, whether they vote one or both gave you that I, you know, I get that they, they love to say we heard from the people, but they don't listen to the people.

No, they don't at all.

And that's why.

When we had Todd Alba on a couple of weeks ago, I think they should be required to put their phones in a bag before they start listening to constituents.

So we know that they're actually listening to people who waited like Cassandra for nine hours.

Can

I

just say

something that I've always wanted to see, whether it's a situation like this or someone testifying in front of a joint

committee or something like that.

When you see those lawmakers who are looking at their phone or looking away or talking to someone, I just want to see someone go, hey, right here, I'm talking right now.

You asked me to be here.

My eyes are up

here.

My ears are up here,

buddy.

I'm sure whatever Twitter has right now is really thrilling, but listen to me.

I just want to see that happen because it's really disrespectful.

It is disrespectful.

And they should be, I'm sorry, but they should be embarrassed.

But again, I think,

I think shame and embarrassment is something that is disappearing now from our society.

Well, they get to weaponize that situation and say, look what this person did and I'm an American and I'm here for you.

And therefore it's

justified.

Oh, absolutely.

And they'll have at least a small cadre of people saying, yeah, what a jerk.

How dare you speak to a congressman or a senator or something like, how dare you do that?

Because they're being disrespectful.

And I thought we were about respect here.

I don't know.

I'm going, I'm an old man right now and I apologize.

Stay

off his lawn.

Get off my

lawn.

I just mowed it.

Oh, that reminds me.

We're having, we're having some work done today.

That's right.

Do

you have

landscapers?

Not landscapers.

We have our, our, our, uh, every quarter or every other month, we have people come by and spray for bugs.

We got to make sure the dog doesn't

get on it.

Yeah.

That's true too.

All right.

We have news coming up next.

When we return, there was an odd, I love it.

track there.

Jim Santel will be here.

We're going to talk all things legal.

He is the host of Amicus, a law review on Saturdays across the network from 9 to 11.

Stay with us.

You are listening to Matt Nair on air on the Civic Media Radio Network.

Good morning and welcome, welcome to Matinair on air.

Jane Matinair, Greg Bach, the board lord coming to you from our studio at Radio Park in Racine where you can always join us, call or text at 855-752-4842.

You can also leave a comment if you're watching on a live stream on Facebook, YouTube and what used to be Twitter, he hosts amicus, a law review on Saturday mornings across the network from 9 to 11.

Our friend and colleague Jim Santel is here.

Good morning, Jim.

How you doing?

Jane, Greg, always good to be with you, especially at a time, June, of course, we're anticipating our Supreme Court, once again, kicking into high gear.

Oh, yeah.

And we can only anticipate what's coming next,

can't we?

Well, it seems like it seems lately, like every once in a while, the Supremes will issue a ruling that I agree with.

And it's like, well, ah.

That seems pretty reasonable.

And then two weeks later, they come out with something that I think is absolutely abhorrent.

And it's like, yeah, that's who you really are.

That's kind of what those guys are.

Speaking.

And it's

not just frustration about emotional responses.

It's basic legal inconsistency, isn't it?

You look at similar situated circumstances and different results.

Is that the rule of law in America today?

I guess it is.

Well, and then there's the whole shadow docket, which is a whole nother discussion that we're not going to get into today.

But we can talk about that at another time, Jim, because Jim joins us every Thursday at this time.

But I wanted to start off a little bit with talking about President Trump is not happy with Leonard Leo and the Federalist Society.

My goodness gracious, he had a major meltdown.

about he's not happy with Amy Coney Barrett essentially is a what it comes down to because she is not his judge and he appointed all three appointed Gorsuch and Kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett and he I am assuming just assumed they're my judges they're gonna do everything that I want and that's not working out to be the way he thought

It is not how disappointing that must be.

No kidding.

To discover that, gosh, you put somebody on the Supreme Court and they take an oath to not him, not to people, not to the White House, but let's all say it together to the American people and the Constitution of the United States.

And they begin to look at things not from a different perspective, but they recognize not only their place in history, but the magnitude of the assignment that has been given to them, which is to do right.

to do justice, develop the rule of law, and all those other important things.

The independence of justices is not previously unseen in America.

We've talked about David Souter before, and we've talked John Paul Stevens, all these folks appointed by supposedly conservative presidents, assumed to be conservative, and they drift when they see the real world, if you will, from that vantage point.

They drift to the center, if not to the left.

And again, that we have our president recently melting down, as you said, Jane, because the Federalist Society, not exactly a bastion of liberal viewpoints, has apparently betrayed him somehow in giving him these lists of names of people who will be reliably on his payroll.

And he's no longer excited about that.

But stunning, stunning.

But the thing was is that the Federalists, I mean, they made it very clear when Trump got into the presidency in the first term.

They're not about anything other than overturning Roe v. Wade.

And I think that the Federalist Society, those names were about Roe v. Wade because they knew they would overturn Roe v. Wade, even though they lied in their confirmation hearings when they said that that was codified law, that was already decided, no reason to go back.

I don't think the Federalist Society cared about anything else they did after the fact.

Because, I mean, those guys are going to be in power.

They're going to have their money.

They're going to have their influence forever.

So for them, it was about Roe v. Wade, period.

And they delivered.

And at that point, Federalist Society is probably like, yeah, we're good.

And they don't have to care after that.

But Trump, yeah, as you're right, he thinks they belong to him.

And they obviously don't read the history books when it comes to Supreme Court justices.

Absolutely.

Federalist Society, just a point of personal observation.

Believe it or not, it was created.

This is how old I am.

When I was in law school at the University of Chicago, my colleagues, my classmates got together one night and began to put this together way back then at the University of Chicago, the campus there in Hyde

Park.

That's where it started.

Absolutely, absolutely.

And even the people who are there to this day trace their roots back to that.

At the time, we thought it was, well, it's an interesting perspective.

You'll be surprised to learn that I did not join that meeting.

But there it began.

It has certainly become a major institution in America, regardless of how you feel about their politics.

And it has been viewed, Greg, absolutely as this bastion of conservative thought.

Privacy rights and other otherwise advancing very generally as you've indicated a conservative agenda and that what they say will be followed by their people and Kind of giving direction even to the way the language and the debate proceeds in America the federal society was always the bastion

When the schism happens between now our president and the Federalist Society, you know the America is drifting in some very interesting directions.

The other piece of this is wonderful article I suspect you're going to post on your on your site here about that drift.

They also make reference, of course, this comes in part in the wake of the decision by the International Court of Trade, basically saying you can't, you can't do all these tariffs, these levies, Mr. President.

It's not in your turn.

And again, Donald

Trump responds to that and says, you've got to be kidding me.

And it goes on off of that.

Interestingly, there is more reason it turns out for Donald Trump.

And he may, he's not reading briefs, but we know as well that there was this fiery brief that was written also, an amicus brief, an amicus brief to that very court.

And it's signed by people like Michael Mukasey, the former attorney general, Steve Calabrese, the head of the Federalist Society, many of George Allen, John Danforth, Chuck Hagel, all these bastions, these

icons.

Of

conservatism.

Exactly.

And also, I should say, for purposes of being fair about this, Democrats and liberals as well, Harold Koh, the former dean of the Yale Law School, all these people basically say they're not taking a position on policy when it comes to Trump.

uh the the lab use and the the tariffs there but they basically say the power to tax regular commerce shape the nation's economic course remains with let's all say it together congress and and i love this language they cannot drift silently into the hands of the president through inertia in attention or creative readings of statues never meant to grant such authority that conviction is not partisan they say

it is constitutional and strikes at the heart of the case.

Donald Trump reads that.

Again, if he hasn't already, somebody maybe should just read that paragraph to him.

It may be if they want more things on truth social, but that is a declaration of independence from not only the independent, the federalist society, but all these other mainstream conservatives and liberals saying, you know what, this is too much.

And it should be read, frankly, not the entire brief, but just the excerpts by everybody who's thinking, gee, are we just being partisan when we attack the president?

No, we've got reputable, longstanding, historically well-founded, conservative, and liberal views saying to him that you cannot do this unconstitutional, Mr. President.

Can't be making him happy.

Jim Santel is our guest.

He's the host of Amicus, a law review Saturdays across the network from 9 to 11 a.m.

And we're talking about this rift now between President Trump and Leonard Leo in the Federalist Society.

When this happened, I can only... Leonard Leo must have been going, what?

What?

because again correct me if I'm wrong Jim but the Federalist Society has been a pipeline for Republican presidents essentially to appoint judges for decades for decades

absolutely and frankly some of the criticism from the left has been just that that maybe this organization has too much influence

on conservative or Republican presidents, and why should they basically give the president, even while they're campaigning for office, here's the list of appeals court judges, state Supreme Court judges who might in fact be good on your Supreme Court.

And the question was not so much, should we do this, but just who among these people should in fact be selected?

There was almost this, the pipeline could not be a better description for it, Jane.

That's the way that this has worked.

The notion once again that that

Pipeline is presumably now cracked to continue the the analogy here and that the president is now going someplace else else to find others What is that group going to look

like?

That's a really good question.

That's a really good question

That's the thing I just thought about while you were talking about Jim is like is like the Federalist Society has enough problems as it is when it comes to upholding democracy and their beliefs how you do such a thing

Where is he gonna go next?

I mean he's just gonna go to like the internet Chuckster school of law and tiling I've been talking to Alex Jones, and he has some great ideas on Supreme Court Justices

the other thing that

I've

seen though Jim and the Bulwark had a big article about this is that Trump's criticism now of the Supreme Court Justices he appointed

is giving pause to some judges who might have been considering retirement.

And now even conservative judges are going, I don't know that I want to leave because I don't trust who he's going to replace me with.

Right.

Right.

And again, for what it's worth, the great article made reference to so wonderful article.

Everybody should read.

It's not not that long.

It's accessible and does make that very important point.

You've got conservative justices who might have been waiting to see whether Kamala Harris or Donald Trump becomes our next president so that again, a conservative mainstream president could perhaps appoint a successor.

I can go into retirement knowing that my seat at least will be followed by somebody else who kind of follows my same principles.

No more.

They're saying that those kinds of

folks if they are in fact appointed again federal judges as we know for life yes they've got it can be confirmed by the Senate but they're there for life you appoint some 45 year olds and they will be there for 40 years

right

and so they're looking at that and saying is this the America

that I signed on for you again as conservatives liberals it doesn't matter right these fundamental principles are so important and so it may well be that Donald Trump this is one of the great legacies that any president provides right is you just mentioned about the supreme court but also judges in the appellate courts the district courts were the most of the law in america's made

He may not have all of that, those great numbers of vacancies

that he

anticipated, and you may get conservatives and certainly liberals and some people in between, or just going to hang around for another 44 months or so and say, gee, we'll see what happens next.

That's a very good point.

One of the big claims we get from people who disagree with us here is that they're accusing them of being activist liberal judges.

And I always have to go back and say, you're talking about people who have been appointed by five different presidents over the past 40 years.

And their only interest, their fiduciary responsibility in their job is to uphold the Constitution of the United States and make sure the laws reflect that they're in.

And it's just surprising to me that anyone who dares in any way, shape or form,

on the bench, look at it from that point of view is automatically an activist judge, where I would contend maybe acting in a way that Trump wants you to as far as the law, that makes you the activist judge because you're going against everyone.

The Constitution.

Yeah.

You're making decisions then, not only contrary to history and precedent,

But frankly, Jane, as you just indicated, Greg, also, you look at the language of the Constitution, and you say, how can you square that?

And that is, again, the virtue of appointed judges and justices for life is that they are freed up.

to be true and some of them we know some of those judges out there they go in different directions that may not be consistent with most of them come to work in the morning and they say I've got this great responsibility I don't have to run for office right I don't have to I can be criticized in the media by civic media and Jim Santel and other people but but you know I got to do what's right

And you think ultimately about your legacy, not only your judicial legacy, but your lifetime legacy, right?

We think about John Roberts all the time.

Yes,

we

have this discussion.

Yes.

What does John Roberts think when he gives the president presidential immunity?

Is he rethinking some of that?

That same Bulbark article kind of suggests that as well, right?

That maybe, just maybe, the Supreme Court's having some second thoughts about what it did 11 months ago or two because they're freed up to do what's right.

It should

be anyway.

Yeah, they should be.

We're going to continue our conversation with James James James.

It's James.

It's Jay Santel from Amicus, a law review.

Stay with us.

We'll be right back on this Civic Media radio

network.

you

Good morning and welcome welcome to Matt and air on air Jane Matt and air Greg box sweet Cal be on the board Coming to you from her studio at radio park in Racine where you can join us Call her text the number is the same 855

7524842.

Leave a comment if you're watching on the live stream on Facebook, YouTube and what used to be Twitter.

Jim Santel, host of Amicus, a law review Saturdays across the network from 9 to 11 is here to talk all things illegal.

And Jim, I wanted to touch on this just a little bit.

GOP bill will make it easier to appeal complaints rejected by the Wisconsin elections commission.

So a lawsuit got thrown out by the Wisconsin Supreme Court in February, a challenge to a mobile voting van that was used in 2022.

Now Republicans have come up with a bill that would make it possible for anyone to appeal decisions rejecting an election complaint.

And they're doing it.

based upon this notion that standing is the issue.

We've talked about this before.

In order to go into court, you've got to say that I've been damaged in some way.

Something significant happened to me, typically money, but it can also be employment, other things.

That is a fundamental notion for 200 years in America.

The reason why the Supreme Court threw out that voting case involving the van was

that not so much on the merits, but it was that this particular plaintiff hasn't shown that how it was at this ban and the votes that it was encouraging, those kinds of polling.

Gosh, there's an American concept, right?

How does that damage you in particular identify that for me?

And again, the Supreme Court said, we don't see it.

So standing is the basis on which the Supreme Court said, we're not going to let this go forward.

by doing what, again, the governor's never going to sign this legislation, of course, but by doing this, they're trying basically to alter, if you will, the very ways in which our courts across the board apply the law.

And at the risk of sounding too hyperbolic here, this is sort of like saying, gee, we're going to legislate so that you can no longer raise equal protection.

We don't like that idea anymore.

So let's put that in some legislation.

All might be due process, all those kinds of things.

It goes beyond just

defining a particular civil or even criminal lawsuit, it goes to the core of who we are as Americans, that when you go into court, whether it's Calvin or me or anyone who's listening right now,

I've got to be able to tell the judge this is how I have been harmed.

Again, I recognize this is a wonky level of sophistication that many people regrettably in Madison will never ever appreciate, but also be aware of the fact that by doing this, it goes in the opposite direction too.

You get rid of standing.

with respect to voting issues.

And it also means that if I don't like something, even if I again, Jim Santel, Calvin others don't like something, I may not be harmed by it.

But now I can

go do

it.

And I can challenge things related to the takedown of the of the box or other things like that.

It works in all directions.

And against this knee jerk reaction to an appropriate Supreme Court decision, it won't get

If it does get passed, the governor will not sign it.

But it's another indication of what are we doing?

You've talked so much about, again, the budget on this show and things they should be focusing

on.

Why are we doing this?

And it's really is contrary to the rule of law.

It's kind of contrary to this thing.

Again, I always bring props, don't I?

To the

Constitution, right?

Fifth Amendment, 14th Amendment.

It's right there.

It says due process.

It talks about equal protection.

It is implicit that standing is there too.

You got to show some damage.

And they don't get it or they don't care about it.

Well,

to me, Jim, this is yet another example of when Republicans lose in a court of law or if they lose in the legislature, they find a way to go around it.

It's like, all right, this we didn't get the results we wanted this way.

So now we're just going to go around it and do it this way instead so we can ultimately get what we want.

And right.

And.

First and foremost, I think that's it.

And beyond that, of course, they know that it's not going to pass.

And I think it's going to be on the governor.

But the real reason is so that he can send messages to Wisconsinites, perhaps Americans, that again, we are still very much opposed to what happened in Racine and look at how we are responding to this.

We're responding to it based upon a baseless theory.

It's not going anywhere.

Forgive me for being so very direct.

But this is just plain stupid.

And it needs to be understood that way.

But their position, of course, is we can issue the press release.

Look at this legislation we're passing.

We're so tough.

We're

protecting you.

We're protecting voting rights.

You're doing none of that.

You're desecrating the very process that you're hoping.

otherwise to promote through voting.

It's ridiculous.

And there's two thoughts I have with that.

First of all, they love nothing more than when they try to pass through a piece of bunk legislation.

It gets vetoed.

And then they get to say,

well, see, the governor wouldn't let it happen.

He doesn't care about your safety or security of the elections.

And also, as we've discussed just yesterday and far many times before that is the fact that this is not important.

This is not childcare.

This is not healthcare.

This is not education.

This is not taxes.

This is not spending.

This is about about renewing a grudge you had because you lost an election and you're a bunch of petulant babies who just don't want to not get your way.

Well, and I also think it is part of continuing to feed this narrative that the Republicans love that there is so much voter fraud.

There is no evidence there has never been any

evidence of widespread voter fraud, no matter how much Mike Johnson, the Speaker of the House, says he knows intuitively, they know intuitively, he says.

There's all this voter fraud happening.

There's no evidence of that.

There is not there hasn't been we know that in the 2020 election It continues to be out there this again as a way of keeping that issue in mind

Yes,

even as in Wisconsin we go ahead to our our next Supreme Court election next year as well It keeps it fresh and again beyond that You know what if you really do find that person at some point who's been affected by the fact that there's a van That was promoting of the franchise in America happened to be in Racine find that person

bring that lawsuit and bring it in and say, you know what voter fraud happened here and I was affected by it.

That's your remedy.

That's your remedy.

If at all, those people aren't out there, of course, but that's the genuine response that Americans on all sides should have.

It's called

standing.

Jim Santel, listen to his show.

Amicus, a law review Saturdays 9 to 11 across the network.

It is fantastic.

Thank you so much, my friend.

We'll see you next week.

It's a pleasure, Jane and Greg.

Take care.

We have news coming up next.

Keep it right here on the Civic Media Radio Network.

Good morning.

Welcome.

Welcome to Matt and Air on air.

Jane, Matt and air Greg Bach and Calvin Butenoff coming to you live from our studio here at Radio Park in Racine where you can always join us, call and or text.

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Wanted to start off talking about childcare.

This is a big, big issue in Wisconsin.

It is a big issue around the country.

But we started off the show talking about how Governor Evers had agreed to tax cuts that the Republicans had wanted.

in exchange for more investment in childcare and our university system and our educational system.

And the Republicans said no.

So they're gonna come up with their own budget.

But the one thing that the Republicans have done on the issue of childcare, they want to expand childcare tax credit for employers, which is great.

Again, they talked about this.

in nine to five from the 1980s.

I love that movie.

Where employers were gonna have childcare centers and daycare centers on site.

Yes.

So parents wouldn't have to do it outside of

work

and then your kids are right there and you can pick them up after you're done and all of those things.

That's from the 1980s.

We're not there.

And so far, according to the Wisconsin Examiner, childcare, small business owners, I mean, small business owners, for one thing, don't have the funds.

If you're a small business, can you afford to set up a daycare center or childcare in your facility?

A small business, most likely not.

I mean, there's a whole bunch of factors that come into play here, I imagine, that, I mean, first of all, I imagine you have to apply to have it.

Be done like your business and your zone for business if you're in a building if you own your building There's that if you rent your building you then have to talk to your landlord.

I'm sure and start there.

I mean the steps of Just going from it can't once again Once again It's Wisconsin Republicans thinking well, we'll just do this and then it'll be fixed.

No, this is it's not just I talk about this all the time

investment it's not just an investment in money it's an investment in time energy ideas conversation planning all these things fine you want small business you want small businesses to open up their own daycare centers or have the ability then

you need to make sure there is a pipeline from idea to execution to completion.

And that way they can do all the things to get this money.

Because if that's the case, if I'm just, if I'm a business, let's say I own a business and I employ 15 people and we're in a building that we rent, okay, do I just say, all right, that rooms childcare, where's my money?

Like this is, you're just throwing an idea out there and there's no real,

There's nothing behind it

right again, and I think that's a really interesting point if they had some kind of program yeah to help small businesses Navigate this because I have to imagine as well that you're talking about a change in your insurance coverage

Absolutely.

If you're going

to have childcare on site at your small business.

And I'm assuming that if you're going to have childcare on your, on your site, you're going to have to have at least one, if not more trained qualified licensed professionals who are there, you have to pay them or, or at the very least what you do is you say, Hey, I have a room that's X square feet.

I want to open up for childcare for my, for my employees, children.

And I rented out the space.

I collaborate with a daycare center or a daycare provider, and they rent the space and they can do what they want.

But I still have to worry about their insurance.

I still have to worry about my insurance.

And if let's just also, we don't even know what the parameters of this tax credit would be, who knows, maybe I don't have enough to qualify for it.

How about this, Jane?

And I'm just spitballing, throwing it out there.

Sure, throw it out.

I'm not a professional politician guy.

What if we take that same idea for a tax credit and we give it to the daycare centers that are businesses here in the state?

You mean the already existing businesses?

Correct.

In the business of childcare?

Yes, the thousands upon thousands of daycares that are in the state.

What if we extended

tax credits, tax credits, tax cuts, incentives for them to be able to pay their people more, to just be able to write off certain things.

What if we made it easier?

I'm just here for small business.

Republicans, you love business.

What if we did that instead of just throwing out the idea of a tax credit for quote unquote, small businesses?

Because also if I'm running a business,

I don't want the headache of a daycare.

You don't want the headache of anything.

As you said, uncertainty is the killer of business.

And if all of a sudden I have to worry about that, it just doesn't make, you're creating a whole new bump in the road.

Instead of just saying, oh, tax credits, let's give those to the daycares.

855-752-4842.

If you are a small business owner, we would love to hear from you.

I would love to know what your opinion is on this.

Again, legislation introduced by Senator Howard Markline, Republican from Spring Green and Representative Karen Hurd.

Another Republican circulated this bill where they want to expand a childcare tax credit for employers.

But again, it doesn't seem like there's a lot of businesses that are jumping on this.

Again, if you're a small business owner, we'd love to hear from you and what you think about this, 855-752-4842.

The other thing that's being talked about now, James Langford, who's a Republican from Oklahoma, was on cable this morning, again, talking about the budget bill, which numerous agencies have said is going to throw millions and millions of people off of Medicaid.

Mr. Langford's response was, well, they're gonna, we're gonna get them off Medicaid and then they're gonna get a job and they'll get their health insurance through their job.

A lot of small businesses can't afford to offer healthcare to their employers, to their employees.

No, they can't.

And I'm gonna speak from experience here at the Laughing Tap, which is owned by a parent company.

one of the things we wanted to do was looking into offering, not forcing, but just having the option of being able to give employees insurance.

It is a lot more difficult, it's a lot more red tape, and if you have less amount of employees, it's almost devastatingly expensive.

I would imagine any for, if you have 50 or less employees, it's gotta be massively expensive to offer them health insurance.

So

we just have never been able to do that.

And it's something we want to do.

And yeah, it's once again, it's once again that idea that, well, they can just, you know, go get it from there.

The uncles and aunts and grandparents can take care of the kid.

The businesses can open their own daycare.

Like it's just this thing of like,

hand-waving away these problems with you, what you think is a solution which shows you do not talk to anyone in the state who goes through the problems that you're in charge of fixing.

Well, and I go back to, I feel like there is not enough long-term thought about ramifications, about what's going to happen down the road after we do this.

I just don't feel like there's a lot of...

futuristic looking and maybe it's because again, my father was a mortician.

I started death and work my way backwards.

You know, I, but that's, I would think our lawmakers would be thinking long-term and I just don't think they do.

And even like, and I want to be very, very clear.

I'm not against giving tax credits or tax breaks to companies that want to do the wonderful thing of opening up a daycare for their employees.

I've said this before and I would love to hear from parents here.

eight, five, five, seven, five, two, four, eight, four, two.

If you had a job offer that was paying you less than the current job you're at, but they offered free daycare, would you take it?

And I think they would because it's so expensive.

But how about introducing a package of ideas here?

And I've just thought about this right now.

Let's say you have a tax credit for businesses that wanna start a daycare.

You have a set of tax credits, tax incentives and write-offs for

existing daycares in the state.

And then you raise the benefit from the child and dependent child tax credit for his parents.

So everyone has the ability to expand, create or save.

You're taking care of businesses from small to large to the people who are sitting here wondering where their next paycheck is going to pay for their rent, their food or their childcare.

It's not that tough.

And you get bipartisan support.

I'm sure the governor would sign it before he could even

finish reading the rest of the thing.

And then from the political side, you go knock on some doors.

You make some phone calls, say, Hey, Jane Doe, Bob Coup public.

This is what we're doing for you today.

Can't give

him any wins though.

No, can't get, can't give the Democratic governor any wins.

And when you, I think that's, I really do think that's part of it.

I agree.

But, but remember this.

And I'm, I, this is something I want to keep saying when you

When you keep the governor from winning, you keep Wisconsin from winning.

That's important.

And it is harming the people of the state you claim to represent.

And that is

disgusting.

While keeping care more affordable for families, Evers tried to use $360 million from the 2023-25 budget to continue that child care counts.

None of Wisconsin's Republican majority in the legislature got behind that.

Lawmakers now writing the new budget.

Evers child care providers and advocates are campaigning for $480 million

to keep that child care counts program going for the next two years.

Republicans, though, on the joint finance committee removed that proposal along with more than 600 other items.

When you when you hold back victory from the governor, you hold back victory from Wisconsin.

Well, and as you said, this affects all of us.

Yep.

Yeah.

This affects this affects this doesn't just affect.

parents, it affects their children, it affects the bosses, it affects co-workers.

It affects their employers, it does.

How are you, like, hey, we've all been there where, and I'm not, this is, I'm not either gonna name names nor am I going to slam anybody on this, but we've all worked at a place where there was a co-worker who was always seeming to have to leave early, come in late, take off because they don't have access to child care.

And that is terrible.

You invest in this,

this thing, you invest in childcare, it will pay back in dividends.

And that is the absolute proof and truth.

So yeah, it's just so upsetting to me.

It's so upsetting.

He's for clamped.

I'm for clamped.

We're going to continue on the other side and talk about service animals.

I

have opinions.

We do have opinions.

That's all on the way.

Stay close.

You are listening to Matt Nair on air on the Civic Media Radio Network.

We will be right back.

you

Good morning and welcome back to Matt Nair on air.

Jane Matt Nair, Greg Bach, Sweet Calbee on the board, coming to you from our studio at Radio Park in Racine, where you can join us.

Call her text.

The number is the same, 855-752-4842.

You can also leave a comment if you're watching on the live stream on Facebook, YouTube, and what used to be Twitter before we went to the break.

We were talking about childcare.

in Wisconsin and the Republicans only effort to address the childcare crisis is to say businesses should do it.

That'll fix it all.

Gene from Eau Claire has been waiting very patiently.

Good morning, Gene.

Thank you for joining us.

What did you want to say about this?

Good morning, outstanding chores usual.

Hey, Gene, I'm glad you brought up nine to five, the movie, nine to five, Gene Fonda, Lily Tomlin, Dolly Parton.

outstanding.

This is what these people were saying, we're going back, we're going back.

So we really need to check out, share it with your friends, everybody get out there and see that thing.

You'll see what went on there.

Okay, anyway, another thing too is when people go and go to these meetings and they are treated ugly and totally dismissed with a condescension, condescension and the remarks.

It is very important for you to start keeping this and putting it out there for your neighbors to see.

You know, with your phones.

I'm not real tech savvy.

But I

do know that years ago, when we learned from people how to fight back against the city and what you need to do, you don't always have to have big groups and

you know, people on the committee and things like that.

What you need to do is start talking to different people who are working on this to sharing information, getting things out in the voice of people, also taping those meetings.

of what the questions are and how they answer and their faces because when that was going on in the capital you know when walker was doing all those things i couldn't get any information it's not coming out on your regular media so people sometimes when they see this in here and i was watching on youtube

What they were doing to the people in the lines and what was happening, I sat and I cried.

I watched those all night meetings over on my side of the state because I wasn't getting this information so you guys hear it.

That was wonderful.

You had that woman on.

That is what they're doing and people need to see that these people really don't care.

And that's a great way you've got the means to do it now.

I think that would be outstanding.

More people need to see it and hear it.

and get involved whatever way they can.

Thank you very much and you have a good day.

You too, Gene.

Thank you so much.

And Gene, as mentioned before, depending upon where you are in the state, you have more limited choices on where you get your news from.

Yes.

Because they're simply, we have television stations that are dying and struggling and cutting reporters and all of those things.

And so it's a challenge.

And I think that's why a lot of people do go to social media to look for news.

But there are great resources right here in the state, things like the Wisconsin Examiner, the pilot and review.

I mean, I'm going to include us as well.

We're trying to bring you the stories from around the state that really impact you the most.

And I'm going to, what Jeannie has said on the phone, I'm going to encapsulate in a very simple phrase that you have said for a while now, which is,

Share what you know.

If you know something, whether it's video, an article, the experience you have.

Tell a neighbor, talk to a friend, talk to a stranger if it happens to happen, and be respectful, of course.

I'm assuming and trusting you'll always be respectful, but it's about sharing what you know, because a politician can stand on a podium and talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, and you can be like, this is nothing.

But if you talk to a friend or a coworker and they tell you an experience that you shared or that at the very least you can empathize with, that's where it starts.

And then share that with, you know,

Social media share that you know, I know if the social media can be a vacuum You're like like I have a tweet and you throw it into the vacuum of the Twittersphere.

Yep, but it can make a difference someone might see it and and then pick up that phone and Call your representative call your state assembly men's day in state center call your counsel person your whomever represents you if I don't know

who to how to contact the people who are representing

me

it would be really useful if there was one place that I could go to that had all of that information.

Wouldn't it though?

We should make one of those.

We should do that.

I have an idea called the Internet Jane.

Yes.

It's a series of tubes.

No, you can go to myvote.wi.gov, myvote.wi.gov.

You're going to put in all of your information.

Just ask for your address.

Yeah, not all your information, your address.

you will be able to find out who represents you from the president of the United States down to the city council members that in your local community, you're also going to be able to find out what's going to be on your upcoming ballot.

If you have one, you can register to vote.

You can request ballots for early voting as long as we still have it.

But that is a great website, myvote.wi.gov and make yourself be heard, share what you know.

And yeah, thank you so much, Jeannie, for calling.

We always appreciate talking

to you.

And we know Jeannie calls.

Yes.

And I think I, you know, again, you might feel like you're spinning in the wind and this isn't doing anything, but I do think it's important that our lawmakers know that we're watching them.

Cause we spoke to somebody months ago who said that this, and I wish I could remember, I apologize for not remembering his name, but he did say that if lawmakers aren't hearing from us, they're going to take it as well.

I'm doing a good job cause no one's calling up mad.

No one's complaining.

I'm not hearing it.

The phones are quiet.

Make those calls, be respectful to those on the phone with, cause they're aides, they're interns.

They're low level and they no one needs to be yelled

at.

Yeah, don't don't please.

Yeah, just be polite

be polite, but be

Forced.

Hartfeld.

Hartfeld is good.

Very good.

Good word from Greg.

Thank you.

Hartfeld, the word of the day.

We have news coming up next, and then when we return, we will lighten it up.

Audio Surbey, it's all things sports.

The Acme Packing Company's Paul Noonan will be here.

Brewers with a big win yesterday.

We'll talk about baseball and much, much more.

That's all coming up.

Stay close.

You are listening to Matt Nair on air.

This is the Civic Media Radio Network.

Good

morning and welcome back to Mattnare on Air.

Jane Mattnare, Greg Bott, Calvitini on the board coming to you live from our studio at Radio Park in Racine where you can join us, call or text at 855-752-4842.

Leave a comment on the live stream on Facebook, YouTube and what used to be Twitter.

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He joins us every other Thursday at this time to talk all things sports, the Acme packing company, sports guru Paul Noonan Brewers.

Another big win yesterday.

What's going on with the crew, Paul?

They have been one of the hottest teams in baseball, honestly.

They have been getting better performances from really their two stars on offense, which has been the driving force.

Christian Yelich has actually been extremely hot.

I feel like he's at the stage of his career where it's kind of just, if he's healthy, he's going to still produce like an all-star.

And if the back tweaks or something like that, he doesn't.

But he's been on an absolute tear.

He's also run into a nice little run of right-handed pitching if you look at Yelich's splits on the air He's actually one of the worst players in baseball against left-handed pitching, but his normal all-star self against righties That's kind of the whole reason he's been bad.

It's just he's had kind of a bad mix of that so

A nice run of pitchers that he can pick on and a nice run of actually being healthy has propelled him back to normal and Jackson Churio is Looking like he might be starting to turn it around a bit as well He has hit quite a few homers lately.

He has been Jackson hasn't walked much this year.

He's been impatient but part of that is because When he swings at the first pitch he is slugging like 770 just

500 is good, 600 is all-star, 700 is like Hall of Fame level.

So when he makes, if you throw him a meatball on the first pitch, there's a good chance he's going to hit it out.

It's been a double-edged sword for him this year because if he misses, then he's down in the count and he's quite bad down a thing, down in the count, but he's been not missing lately.

And he's started to adjust his game a little bit more to get back in count.

So, you know, he's 21 years old.

He's a kid.

The league adjusts to him.

He's done a great job of adjusting back so far.

There's going to be these little hiccups for Churio as he develops.

But those two have powered this in addition to Reese Hoskins just still being good.

The other thing, but the other big one, last time I was on the show, we did a lot of complaining about Pat Murphy.

And I want to be clear, while the results have been better for the Brewers over the last 10 games, the process hasn't really been that much different.

The Brewers last year the relief pitcher to pitch the most games in baseball pitched 70 not appeared in 79 games The Brewers have two relief pitchers on pace for 80 games this year Wow, that is that is still too much and he still is overusing guys like Abner Yerebe and Nick Mears They won yesterday and 9 to 1 it was that yesterday.

I was it was 9 to 1 Nick Mears pitched in that game

You have four relievers who are extremely important to keep healthy and fresh.

He is one of them.

There was no reason to use him in a game.

It wasn't 9-1.

I think they were still kind of like 5-1, but still.

That's a situation where you should rest your guys.

The reason that this has worked for the Brewers lately is they had an off day, so they got to rest up everybody.

good um and they've they actually got a couple of good starts deep into games that also save things a little bit but pad is still using his best relievers too much and he that will cost you long term if you keep doing it but it's been a good stretch they had an off day to work uh they managed to you know uh skate by a couple of blowouts and

They've been on fire.

They're five games above 500.

They're a half game out of the wild card right now.

The Cubs have also been on a tear, so they haven't made up too much ground there, unfortunately.

But they've kept themselves in the playoff race.

And it looked like they were going to be sure sellers, you know, two weeks ago, and now they look like dynamite.

So all things good so far.

But a couple of little worrisome trends still hanging out there for them.

I am delighted for Christian Yelich, largely because what I see 37.

At 37, he's considered such an ancient human being.

So I love to see him slamming him out of the park.

I think it's awesome.

Yeah.

I don't think is, is he that old?

I feel like time, time for me doesn't matter anymore.

If they're

younger than me,

they're just youngsters.

They're all youngsters.

Yeah.

But I, he

is, he is 33.

Oh,

he's only 33.

Well, again, still in baseball, in baseball years, you know, he's almost dead.

Wow.

He is.

So Yelich is interesting because he actually has very stereotypical problems for a tall man in baseball.

He used to be one of the fastest players in baseball.

He has had a distinct drop-off in sprint speed this year.

Tall guys' knees tend not to age very well.

The guy here reminds me of most is Corey Hart, the Brewers' former outfielder in first baseman.

Corey Hart, when he came up with the Brewers, was the fastest guy in baseball.

and just one year his knees caught up with him and he couldn't run anymore, had to move to first base.

Yelich has always been like an 80% sprint speed guy in baseball, and he's fallen to like 60% this year.

You can tell the knees are starting to get a little bit, which is sad to see.

He's 33.

That's not old, but baseball age is a different thing altogether.

Yeah.

I'm trying to think of who is the former first baseman for the Brewers who...

He was the slowest guy I've ever seen in my life.

He is like,

he

was like, yes.

When Aguilar hit the ball, he would, power walk would be an overestimation

of what he was doing.

He would just

be like, click.

He knew what was going on.

I was like, I'm just going to just dump, dump, dump, dump, dump.

If any time I see anyone run, I just think to him, I'm like, I don't understand why you don't even just try.

You're just nothing.

And so when someone says they're slow, I'm like, you're not as slow as Aguilar.

You are not.

No.

That team was actually one of the slowest teams ever to play.

Uh, well, uh, for the Brewers anyway, that was team that had Aguilar and like Dan Vogelbach and a couple other big slow guys.

They ended up not hitting as many doubles as you would project because of that.

Like they were so slow that even like drives to the alley would turn in the singles a lot of the time.

I remember Vogelbach, he was so sweet.

It looked like he came out right off a farm to play baseball.

And my, my friend used to say goes, I love Vogelbach cause you just look so big, happy and dumb.

Yeah.

Indeed.

Paul Noonan is here.

He is the sports guru for the Acme Packing Company, and he joins us every other Thursday to talk all things sports.

Let's turn our gaze over to football a little bit, Paul.

What are we thinking about the Packers?

So, OTAs have started, and if you're looking for some good news on the Packers, and I know we all are,

This is the time of year when people show up in the best shape of their lives, and usually that doesn't matter.

It's just something coaches say to make guys feel better about themselves.

But we actually got some decent news on a couple of somewhat hidden injuries last year.

Kenny Clark apparently played most of last year with bone spurs in his feet, and that is painful.