Welp, We’re All Gonna Die (Hour 1)

Welcome, welcome to Matt and Air on Air.

Jane Matt and Air, Greg Bach and Calvin Butenoff coming to you live from our studio here at Radio Park in Racine.

You can always join us.

You can call her text.

The number is the same.

855-752-4842.

You can leave a comment as well on the live stream.

If you're watching on Facebook, YouTube, and what used to be Twitter coming up on the show, economics professor Rick Reed will be here after the 930 News.

It's Econ 101 with Jane and Greg.

Get your pens and paper.

Get your pens and pencils.

I just think it's important.

to talk to someone who can break down things that are very complicated.

Because when you, I never took econ in high school or college.

I

definitely dropped econ once

in college.

You dropped it once.

Yeah.

But I think it's important to have someone who could explain it in digestible ways.

And especially when we talk about the USA credit rating and some other things that have been going on.

So if you have a question for Professor Reed, please text it in now.

Text it.

Call us later.

Send an email send a voice note send a voice note But you know just shoot those questions over to us and we will you know if we can get we want to get them to him Make sure it's in context and more of a question than like

A statement?

Yeah, exactly.

Exactly.

But

yeah,

we're looking forward to having Professor Reid on the show today.

Absolutely.

That is coming up after the 9.30 news.

In hour number two, it's June 2nd.

What does that mean, Jane?

It's the first Monday of the month, which means we are going beyond the cheese.

I like the salute beyond that

cheese.

To space.

We're going beyond the cheese to highlight a business in Wisconsin outside of the dairy industry.

So we are going to be joined by John A.

and Kate McLaughlin from the McLaughlin and Hayes Hat Company.

They make hats.

What are they, Jane?

They are a Havadasher and a milliner.

There it is.

It's so cool.

It

really is so cool.

You know what would make it absolutely perfect if they had their third partner was a cobbler.

Something to shoot for us.

Yes, but Steve Hayes also I believe John and Kate and Steve are gonna be joining us in the studio after the 10 o'clock news So I would love to see hats come back I Real I would that's me personally.

I think hats are great

I used to work with a couple gentlemen and and and not in the early 19th century Who would wear in winter they would wear hats

They would wear their hats and it was a, you know, it wasn't like a, it wasn't a wool hat.

It was like a- It

was a brimmed, it was a fedora, right?

Yeah, it wasn't

a fedora, but it was brimmed.

And it was one you had to go to a hat store to buy.

And I just always thought it looked really nice.

And I feel like in a certain age, I'm gonna do that, but here's, can I just make a real quick confession, Jay?

I want to rock a cowboy hat, but I also feel like it's not gonna work in the long run.

Cause- I just don't know that cowboy hats work in Wisconsin unless you're out state.

Yeah, but that's the thing is I wanted to work because I think I'd look good in one.

We can do a road trip to McLaughlin and Hades because they're on Connecticut Avenue.

I know exactly where they are.

In Bayview.

And ladies, if you have a wedding coming up or something, they make.

fascinators, they make really elaborate hats for the Kentucky Derby and things like that.

So please stick around for Beyond the Cheese with the Glofflin and Hayes after 10 o'clock.

Also next hour, we will lighten it up from 10.30 to about 10.50 with the segment we call Audio Sorbet.

Try and lighten things up a little bit.

Pallet cleanser for your ears get away from the news get away from politics The question today is what is the Chore You've been putting off the project.

What is the product of the home project?

You had been putting off

and you don't have to own a home to do this either What is that project around the apartment?

The you know the house every time you walk past it you go.

Oh, I should do that.

I

should really do that

or like me, you say all the time, I'm going to do that.

And you're like,

never happened

years later.

What is the project that you need to get done?

And it's just not happening.

And then we'll wrap it up as we always do with this shouldn't be a thing today.

It is the buzz off edition.

So stay tuned for that.

With Beyond the Cheese, if you have a business or industry or something in your town that you think would be good for that, something outside of the dairy industry, we would love to hear about it.

So let us know at janesaysatcivicmedia.us, J-A-N-E-S-A-Y-S, Jane says,

at civicmedia.us.

Right now that we did want to start off, we had representative Mark Pocan was on the show with us on Friday, and he did say that he was going to be having another town hall over the weekend, which he did.

And Derek Van Orden, who was invited, was not there.

What?

Wait.

Whoa.

Whoa.

Whoa.

I know.

What a shocker.

Mark Pocan was in Eau Claire, the third congressional district represented by

Derek Van Orden.

On Saturday, this was a town hall organized by Opportunity Wisconsin.

Van Orden, of course, was invited to attend, but declined.

I will say this, and quite seriously, Derek Van Orden has said that he and his family had been the target of threats, which is very serious for all of them.

I mean, judges are getting threatened.

We have

numerous representatives who are getting threatened.

Mark Polkan does say, you know, I've had threats too, but I'm here.

I guess that's their own individual decisions.

But it is a reality that this is happening and people are threatening our elected officials.

And that is terrible.

And if that's the case for this, and I find I understand it, but that also does not just, does not explain why previous invites have been ignored as well.

And this is something that's going on countrywide.

as far as political leaders, specifically the GOP, ditching out on town halls, public events where they can be questioned and asked about policies, especially when you claim that SNAP benefits will not be cut and then you vote for cuts to SNAP.

So that being said, absolutely, absolutely.

You're right.

Violence is not encouraged.

Violence is not welcomed.

That is not the

way to do

it.

And I hope that he and his family

are absolutely safe.

Derek Van Orden has said he prefers telephone town halls where the meeting isn't dominated by people he calls left-wing critics.

And again, he's also said his family has gotten death threats and is vulnerable in an in-person setting.

We have talked about this a lot, a lot of these town halls where people have showed up and this claim that they're all being paid by George Soros.

Everyone's being paid off if that were the case.

I feel fairly confident that someone would have a copy of the cheque signed by George Soros for their appearance at these town

halls.

How long have they been saying that these are paid actors from George Soros?

It's not just recently, this is years now.

So you think about every paid actor over a course of 10, 20 years, he'd be broke on top of the billions of dollars he's given to campaigns as well.

And also,

No one's ever produced a check.

No undercover right-wing activist has signed up to be a George Soros crisis actor or whatever and then gotten their check and like,

here it is, we did it.

Here's the proof.

Yeah, but this would have been right up Project Veritas' alley when they still had some air of legitimacy that seems to have been gone.

But yeah, you're right.

No one has ever shown any proof that all of these people who were showing up at these town halls are just paid agitators

I don't buy it.

I think people are showing up because they're worried and Concerned about what is going to happen with this budget

and not all of these individuals who go there are Died in the wool liberals

leftist

Democrats is it's

people of all stripes of all backgrounds coming, not all backgrounds, but people who are just regular folk coming to these meetings who are worried about their social security, their Medicaid, their Medicare, their house, their kids, their childcare, that all

these

things, all these things that the politicians say they care about yet seem to always vote against.

But somehow their friends are able to buy their eighth vote.

Wow.

Gotta look out for the people who are bankrolling.

I need an eighth boat.

Mark Pocan over the weekend at this town hall in Eau Claire, chided Republicans for cutting Medicaid benefits for nearly 14 million Americans, raising premiums for the Affordable Care Act, and cutting food assistance to 11 million mostly low income kids through SNAP.

The Republican budget also extends tax cuts.

Fasten 2017 for, guess who, America's top earners, resulting in a nearly $5 trillion national deficit over 10 years.

Again, now we have said that Ron Johnson has come out very vocally against this.

Because he cares, Jane, about the working folks, getting access to medicine,

healthcare, childcare.

No, no, no,

no.

No, that's

not what he's worried about.

He's worried about mortgaging our children's future, Greg, through debt.

Because this, and again, he seems to be one of the few Republicans who has admitted that this is going to, this bill in that passed the House will add massively to our deficit.

I guess we give him credit for

that.

No, I will not.

No, sorry.

I'm so I'm tired of giving people credit for doing the wrong because he is because he's essentially he's lying by omission.

Because you had something like Dr. Liarley on this morning on Pat Cho saying that her and he could share the same concern about exploding the deficit based on this bill.

The problem is, is that we want to look at proper cuts.

We want to look at proper funding.

We want to look at taking down spending on all things, if that is the way of finding the money to make these cuts happen.

Ron Johnson wants to cut more social programs.

He wants to cut into entitlements.

He wants to make people suffer, and those people voted for him.

That's how he wants to be able to, quote, afford this because he wants the massive tax cuts versus, I'm worried about deficits exploding because of children, grandchildren, friends.

putting this cost on them for the future, there's a different reason.

And one is more based in caring about humans versus his is pure and unfettered greed.

He's

worried about the future, not about climate change.

No, no.

He's worried about the deficit affecting his children and his grandchildren's future, but not about climate change.

I'm trying to find this quote because he has said,

We shouldn't spend one penny on climate change.

Here it is.

I mean, I love the outdoors.

He said, quote, we shouldn't spend a dime on climate change.

We'll adapt.

We're very adaptable.

I thought they didn't believe in evolution either.

So good point.

Yeah.

I mean, that's, that's the thing.

It's like, if you really worried about your grand, and there's no, I don't know, as kids or grandkids.

They're fine.

They're gonna be fine.

They're his great-great-great-great-grandchildren will be fine as long as you know someone doesn't get into like you know buying up land that falls on the earth like They are going to be just fine when he talks about his kids and grandkids He puts them in the same class as my friends worrying about their kids and grandkids who you know

They're blue collar folks.

They're working class folks.

They're middle class folks.

Their business doesn't have their own plane.

Well, they're poor.

So they don't, you know, they don't make businesses happen.

So Jane, let's just... They're not job creators.

They're not job

creators.

But yeah, I'm really, I'm tired of this disingenuous concern from Ron Johnson about us.

Cause he doesn't care about us unless you are injured by the vaccine, of course.

Well, that's a whole

nother discussion.

But anyway, we can all relax you guys because

We're all going to die.

Really?

We have this from direct from an Iowa senator's mouth.

I wasn't sure about it, but she confirmed it over the weekend.

We are all going to die.

We have all the details coming up.

Don't go away.

You're listening to Matt Nair on air on the Civic Media Radio Network.

We're all gonna die, we just don't know So effing tired of just surviving all the time

Good morning and welcome, welcome to Matt Nair on air, Jane Matt Nair, Greg Bach, and the Calvinator on the board coming to you from our studio, Radio Park in Racine.

You can always join us, call or text the number is the same, 855-752-4842.

Leave a comment on the live stream on Facebook, YouTube, and what used to be Twitter.

Coming up a little bit later on today, Todd Alba from Two to Four, Across the Network, 235.

Todd's gonna speak with State Senator Kelder.

Royce.

She is on the joint finance committee.

She'll have an update on the Wisconsin state budget at three o'clock.

Todd is joined by Wisconsin watch reporter Tom Kircher.

So join Todd today from two to four across the civic media radio network.

Coming up after the 9 30 News economics professor Rick Reed will be here.

If you have a question for the professor, please send it in.

you can email it at james says at civicmedia.us you can text it in at 855-752-4842 or you can leave a voice note

yes

if you have the civic media app there's a place now you can record a voice note so uh professor reed coming up after the 930 news uh this happened wow over the weekend i always said that erjony Ernst was at a town hall recently yeah

and she was talking about Medicaid.

And someone in the audience yelled out, if you make these cuts, people are going to die, essentially.

And Calvin, I believe we have a clip from Senator Ernst.

What was her response during this town hall meeting,

please?

For

heaven's sakes, folks,

we're all going

to die.

Well, from a philosophical standpoint, she is not wrong.

She's

not wrong.

But I mean, dude,

my dude.

Well, and then she came back.

Because there was a lot of blowback from this.

Then Senator Ernst came back with a response that she filmed in a cemetery.

Oh,

it was great.

I mean, whomever works for her chef's kiss.

It was so smart.

Calvin, I believe we have a little sample from that response.

Can we play that, please?

Hello, everyone.

I would like to take this opportunity to sincerely apologize for a statement that I made yesterday.

Hello, everyone.

I would like to

take this

opportunity to sincerely apologize for a statement that I made yesterday at my town hall.

See, I was in the process of answering a question that had been asked by an audience member when a woman who was extremely distraught screamed out from the back corner of the auditorium, people are going to die.

Made an incorrect assumption that everyone in the auditorium understood that yes We are all going to perish from this earth

pretty much,

but so I apologize Yeah, and I'm really really glad that I did not have to bring up the subject of the tooth fairy as well

Real sincere, real sincere response there from Senator Joni Ernst.

Then she ends it with get with Jesus.

Right.

Yep.

Go with God.

Yeah.

I don't know if, I mean, again, this is playing really well in some circles.

Oh, she, she libt ears.

We love it.

We love the libt ears.

Jody Ernst, way to come back to it.

I don't know that this is going to work so well for her in the long run.

I don't think so either.

There's already a, there's already a person who's running against her in Iowa for the seat, a Democrat, and they're, they're running ads already.

We're using this.

Yeah.

I mean, it's just dumb,

dumb dumb stuff.

Jim from Brookfield is on the line.

Good morning, Jim.

Thank you for waiting.

What did you want to say?

Good morning, Jane.

Good morning, Greg and Calvinator.

I just want to say, circling back to our beloved Senator Ron Johnson's never ending fight for tax cuts for the wealthy.

He has occasionally has a lot of right wing politicians when they're finally called on it.

You know, why do we have to keep giving tax breaks to the wealthy at the expense of the poor?

You know, the classic line is,

Well, no poor man ever built a factory.

Okay, well, I would like to ask Mr. Johnson, first of all, how many factories has he built?

And second of all, how many billions do you need to build a factory?

And why, when you build these, with the few that do, why can't you afford a living wage with health insurance?

So let's make a list of all the factories, Mr. Ron Johnson, and the U-Lines, and everybody else has created that a paid living wages with health care.

and how many billions they still have after any of those expenditures.

Well, if we could actually get him to sit down and answer a question, Jim, that'd be a great idea.

I have all kinds of things I would love to ask Senator Johnson, but you make a really good point.

And the one thing that I used to say too, you know what?

If you have a good enough job where you can afford a cleaning lady, you're a job creator, aren't you?

Yeah.

I, as

I said- Thank you, Jim.

Appreciate you calling.

As I said before, I'm not poor, but I'm also not rich, wealthy, but I'm a job creator.

If you hire a launch service, aren't you a job creator?

But I love that he said this because once again, within the statement is a conversation, which is, yeah, poor people probably aren't job creators because poor people don't have access to the funds that you do.

They don't have access to opportunity like you do.

Maybe if we made it easier,

And the education out there, maybe there is a person who qualifies as poor is like, I want to open up my own food truck.

I want to open up my own.

Juice stand, whatever.

Hat store, whatever.

We make those opportunities possible so they can grab those bootstraps, pull them up and become a job creator and make a good living here in America.

So when you say they're poor people, don't make jobs, okay, great.

How do we change that?

We have news coming up next and then when we return economics professor Rick Reed will be here.

Stay with us.

You are listening to Matt Nair on air.

This is the Civic Media Radio Network.

Don't go away.

Good morning and welcome to Met and Air on Air.

Jane Met and Air, Greg Box, Sweet Calbee on the board.

Coming to you from our studio at Radio Park in Racine, you can always join us, call or text.

The number is the same, 855-752-4842.

Leave a comment if you're watching on the live stream on Facebook, YouTube, and what used to be Twitter.

We're talking Econ 101 joining us because we are not economics experts.

That's why we talk to the experts.

Rick Reed is here, an economics instructor with the Fox Valley Technical College.

Good morning, Rick.

Thanks so much for joining us.

Good morning.

Thanks for having

me.

Absolutely.

We want to talk about the downgrade, the U.S.

downgraded by Moody's.

All three major credit rating firms are no longer giving the United States their best rating.

For those of us who have never taken economics and are just kind of peripherally aware of economics, what does this mean and why should we care?

Ah, we should all care.

So.

Probably the easiest thing to relate to is when you go to apply for a credit card or a loan saved by a car The lender is going to run your credit report and they run it through one of three credit rating agencies and They collect that on you and determine how likely it is you are to pay your bills on time and based on that score Determined helps determine what your credit

what your interest rate is likely to be and how likely lenders are to be able to lend money to you.

In a very simplistic way, this is kind of a very parallel situation.

Nations, when they go to borrow money, excuse me, get raided.

And the three dominant ones that we care about in the United States are Standard and Poor's, Fitch,

and Moody's.

Standard and Poor's downgraded us in I think I want to say about 2011.

Fitch was just a couple of years ago about 2023 and Moody's was the was the last one to come to the show and basically what it means is is that the United States credit in other words when the United States sells bonds to be able to borrow money from anybody that's willing to lend it to us.

we're slightly less perfect in terms of our ability to manage our debt and pay our bills.

Well, and that's what it comes down to, essentially, if I am hearing you correctly, Professor, that they are looking at the United States and how likely we are to be good for our debts,

right?

Right.

And actually, Moody's in his commentary offered a few comments.

One of them is that

the the big knock on the rating resulted from our inability to manage our debt overall and come to agreement and This has been something that's plagued both Republican and Democratic administrations and and Congresses, so it this isn't something that suddenly happened, right?

However, it did

just suddenly happen

because of this latest downgrade by Moody's.

Right,

right.

Rick, I have a question for you because I remember when that, I remember that push notification that came through my phone saying that standards and poor standards and poor's had downgraded America's credit rating and it sent shockwaves through the news.

I mean, it was like, oh, okay, our economy is very bad.

And, and we, I mean, granted, we were like,

downgraded I think one level and it wasn't the end of the world, but it was still a huge thing and it's hard to come back from.

Did Standard and Poor's ever upgrade us?

Did we get back to the perfect across the three?

Or have we been sitting at that credit rating with them since 2010, 2011?

I believe we're sitting with the same credit rating since 2010, 2011.

So the question I would have because I'm an individual who has for the past, oh, good Lord.

Times a construct say 15 years.

I've been working on getting my credit better and better and better because for me as a person it helps yes How does that work for a country though?

What's the process?

What's the process?

For like if America said hey, we want to really get back on track and spend right and and get that credit rate because if it hasn't changed since then it does it really matter then is because as an individual basis I feel like credit ratings are kind of a scam I think it's a game but

How does the country on the whole improve our score?

Yeah.

Right, right, right.

Well, the big knock has been on our ability to manage our debt and our budgets.

Moody's made commentary that it felt fairly confident that we were able to manage the value of the currency, which is really important, right?

And that falls on the shoulders primarily of the Federal Reserve.

They've done a great job of making sure that the value of the dollar has been relatively stable.

But the thing that really has hurt us is the fact that we continue to run deficits and we don't seem to be able to get that under control.

And as importantly, we don't seem to be able to set a clear path over time.

So if you think about the current issues that are hitting us,

the tariffs all the issues around the tariffs has created a lot of uncertainty in the marketplace and the issues around the What the administration is calling the big beautiful bill that has now been approved by the House of Representatives You know that wasn't the thing that comes to my mind is that remember the film from

This is a long time ago planes trains and automobiles sure and John candy and Steve Martin are driving down the highway.

They're trying to make make time and a driver is Riding parallel to him and hawking their horn and saying you're going the wrong way and candy and Steve Martin go ha ha ha.

How do they know where we're headed?

Right sure buddy ha ha ha you know there This is kind of the same thing in my bed.

It was the first thing that came to my mind was that

Moody's is basically saying, folks, you got to get your act together.

Congress and the administration are saying, okay, yeah, this is what we're going to do for our budget.

We're going to have these tax cuts that we're going to reinforce.

We're going to cut some spending in specific areas like Medicaid and SNAP.

But at the end of the day, the Congressional Budget Office has basically said that Bill is going to create another $3.8 trillion in debt over the next 10 years.

That's the kind of thing that Moody's is pointing to and saying, you know what, you've got enough debt.

You've checked that box.

It's time to reel

it in a little bit.

And

you need

to start making some progress in that direction.

Oh my

gosh.

I don't wanna say that's it, but that's a really, for me, my brain, that's a really good comparison.

And now, as a way of thinking and talking about it, that's a really scary way of putting it, that they're basically saying, hey, here's how you do it.

And we're like, cool, we're gonna do it a different way.

See you in a couple of years.

Well, and I guess again, I go back to...

the IRS under President Biden because they had hired so many more IRS agents who were going after the bigger tax cheats, which brought in a whole that brought in over a billion dollars when they were doing that.

And now they've x that out.

So we don't have that revenue coming in either.

So it's kind of a it's kind of a rolling ball that doesn't seem to be stopping anywhere, does it?

Exactly, no it doesn't and seems like it may be headed in the wrong direction.

You know one of the great challenges though is that we talked a little while ago about the US bonds and the fact that the yield just went up on the US bonds because they became less attractive and that preceded Moody's downgrade and

there have been a number of factors, not the least of which is the fact that part of it had to do with China selling off a lot of their holdings of the US Treasury bonds after they were threatened with a very steep tariff level.

And you can interpret it however you want.

The easy interpretation is that China was saying, okay, if you're going to charge us with tariffs, take this.

and they sold off a bunch of US Treasury bonds.

And what that really did was it effectively depressed the price of the bond, which raised the yield rate.

Bottom line is it makes it more expensive for the US government to borrow money moving forward,

right?

On that topic, Rick, so in China's sold bonds,

Who do they sell them to?

Do they sell them back to the United States?

Do they sell them to other countries?

Do they sell them?

Can they sell them to individuals?

Or because if they're selling them off, I'm just wondering who gets them in the long run then.

Yeah.

An easy way to think about bonds is kind of like cars.

Yeah.

You've got the brand new car coming off the assembly line, and then you've got the used car market, right?

And so when the US issues a bond, it's minting a brand new car, a brand new bond.

And they sell it to the market and it matures in

you know, one, two, 10, 30 years.

In that period of time, that bond can be sold on the open market to anybody that is willing to buy it.

So it's kind of like the used car market in that analogy.

But much like the used car market, it doesn't exist in isolation.

So if the used car market is starting to show signs of price instability,

that impacts the new bond market as well.

So when already issued bonds are generating a lower price translating to a higher yield to the buyer, that means that the U.S.

government when it issues new bonds has to compete against that and they have to kind of respond in kind.

If you're just joining us economics instructor Rick Reed is our guest.

He's with Fox Valley Technical College just talking about econ 101 trying to break things down for those of us who are not economists and We had talked about bonds the last time that you were on because in from again from what I understand Rick Rick bonds were like the the most solid of bets

Bonds were always a pretty solid bet, right?

You are buying from the US government.

You are helping to fund the US government by buying bonds.

Is that accurate?

Correct.

You're supplying the lendable funds to the government.

I'm loaning them money.

I'm loaning them money.

But then when the interest went up, that was bad for the government, but good for me as the holder of the bond?

Exactly.

Exactly.

Because the reality of part of what you're buying with the US government bond is a very secure instrument.

So far, knock on wood, the government's never failed to pay its debt to any of the bondholders, right?

So from that perspective, you're basically getting kind of a sure thing.

When bond prices go down and the yield rate goes up, it's good for you as an investor, it's horrible for the government because now they're

They're

actually paying

a higher interest on anything they need to borrow

money for.

I've asked this question to a lot of situations where we are investing in the government, whether it's our social security or unemployment insurance.

What happens if the government can't pay?

Is it just us too bad, so sad?

Or is it, I mean, do I have action to get my money?

Because I bought in good faith from you and now you're saying you can't pay me.

Is it a you risk it with the bond?

Even though it's so

surefire or is it something where I can come back?

And honestly, we have to go to break.

So if you want to answer this on the other side of the break, because it's going to take a little bit longer, but.

Recreate is here, an economics instructor from Fox Valley Technical College.

We are going to continue with Econ 101 on the other side.

Stay close.

You are listening to Matt Nair on air on the Civic Media Radio Network.

We'll be right back.

Good morning.

Welcome back to Matt Nair on air.

Jane Matt Nair, Greg Bach, and Dr. Slide on the board coming to you from our studio at Radio Park in Racine.

Join us at 855-752-4842.

You can leave a comment if you're watching on the live stream on Facebook, YouTube, and what used to be Twitter.

And just a reminder, make sure you have the Civic Media app.

Our statewide Scotty summer text to win contest gets underway today.

You have a bunch of chances to win.

Listen in the seven, 11, two and four o'clock hours for that hours keyword.

You want to text in that word via the Civic Media app and be in there running for some fantastic prizes that could but probably won't change the course of your entire life down below the Civic Media app.

and be ready in the 11 o'clock hour, Tom Hartman will have the word for you to text in good luck.

We were talking to Rick Reed, who is an economic instructor at Fox Valley Technical College.

And before we went to the break, I posed a question that I will sum up very quickly.

If I, the investor, invest in U.S.

bonds and the government can't pay yields on those, what is our recourse as individuals

or anybody?

Yeah, basically solve a bond.

is what you would do because the likelihood of them saying we're not going to pay, period.

I don't think it would be like light switch where one day the government can pay and the next day it can't with no news about that in advance.

More likely what would happen is that if the government was unable to pay and really what we're talking about is not

not that it can't pay, but that it can't pay on time.

The reality of it is that would push the value of the bonds down pretty considerably, push the yields up pretty considerably.

And I think what you'd see is a bunch of investors that are holding bonds trying to sell them very quickly.

The likelihood of us going from where we are today to that scenario, it would take

Hopefully it would take years, maybe decades.

I don't think you're going to see it happen overnight.

What's more likely, though, is that we continue down the path of having it eroding credit rating as a nation.

And if that continues to happen, and if the government, well, one of the things that happened, I think it was back in 2012, 2013, where the government

Basically, we shut down.

There was a group of congressmen that basically said, if we can't balance the budget, we're

just going to

pass the bill.

We're not going to pass a bill that doesn't balance the budget.

No will cause a really bad way to do it.

And the reason it's a bad way to do it is that it basically raised the question of the stability of the government and the ability to pay its bills on time.

And that's going to have an impact on attractiveness of bonds to buyers.

Yeah, Cassandra on the live stream is essentially asking the same thing if this house but a bill does not pass in the Senate, what happens then do we default on our debt?

Or is it just more likely that they're gonna have to do another continuing resolution?

Right, they're gonna have to continue to, we're gonna pass this thing up as long as we can.

Now one of the historically what we've had in the light if you look over the last ten years We've had really low interest rates, right?

Really low interest rates and so that's been that's enabled the government to be able to borrow money And and not worry quite as much about balancing the budget Urgently right because the interest rate, you know if you're paying, you know two percent It's a lot better than if you're paying three four or five percent sure

That time is gonna start to run out and we're gonna start to see the interest payments start to rise pretty quickly if we're not careful.

Well, and weren't our interest rates held, not unnecessarily, but they were held low for a long time purposefully.

Right, right.

The Federal Reserve in response to the Great Recession in 2008, 2009, one of the things that it did was it,

below the balance sheet, basically they made as much lendable money available as possible.

Because one of the things that you don't want to have happen at the end of a recession, during a recession or at the end of the recession is having qualified borrowers not being able to access funds quickly and relatively inexpensively.

You want them to be able to borrow the money to be able to invest to stimulate the economy.

The Federal Reserve kind of went

overboard

on that a little

bit.

They kept them really

low for a long time.

You bet.

Yeah.

This is why we have experts on folks, because Jay and I, we are not experts.

We're not lawyers, doctors, or economists.

We are all those things adjacent.

Yes.

That's why Rick Reed is here, an economic instructor from Fox Valley Technical College.

We've got time for maybe one more question, Rick.

Yeah, Laurie from Hayward asked the question, do you think that we should raise, oh, I'm sorry, do you think the social security cost of living adjustment should be raised this year?

Well, historically, it's raised based on the cost of living.

They're raised based on the CPI from the prior year, and it's voted on by Congress to be able to enable it.

If you're receiving Social Security, you want it raised as much as possible.

If you're not receiving Social Security, you don't really care much until you start getting close to it.

So should it or shouldn't it be?

The standard practice has been that it's raised in accordance with the CPI.

There was an increase last year, I believe.

I believe there was an increase in the cost of living last year.

He is an economics instructor with the Fox Valley Technical College.

We do econ 101 with Rick Reed to try and break things down.

Thank you so much.

We really, really appreciate your time.

Thanks for having me on.

Stay with us.

News is coming up next.

And then when we return, we go beyond the cheese with the McLaughlin and Hayes Hatt Company.

Stay close.

You are listening to Matt Nair on air on the Civic Media Radio Network.

Good morning and welcome.

Welcome to Matt Nair on air.

Jane Matt Nair, Greg Bach, Calvin Butenoff coming to you live from our studio here at Radio Park in Racine.

You can always join us, call or text.

The number is the same, 855-752-4842.

You can leave a comment if you're watching on the live stream on Facebook, YouTube and what used to be Twitter.

It is the first Monday of the month.

Therefore, it is time for our

Monthly segment called, Calvin.

It's our opportunity to highlight businesses and industries in Wisconsin that are outside of the dairy industry.

So we are delighted to be welcoming in studio from the McLaughlin and Hayes Het Company in Milwaukee.

John and Kate McLaughlin, good morning.

Thank you so much for coming in.

Good morning.

Good morning.

It's our pleasure to be here.

How long have McLaughlin and Hayes

head company how long have you been in business

well we just celebrated 15 years but we had a bit of an evolution so we first started as the brass rooster i

remember

and then we added the hen house and then when we needed to come up with our business plan and um our

Plan of attack really to survive COVID, we became McLaughlin and Hayes Hat Company.

I'm so glad you're still there.

You're still on Knick Knick.

Yeah, same

location.

We actually shrunk down.

Just a little bit.

A little bit and refined what we really needed.

And it ended up being one of the best things we've ever done.

Oh, that's fantastic.

Well, obviously what you do is very niche.

You make hats by hand.

You are a habidasher.

You are a milliner.

You actually still use the old forms that they used to use.

It's an art, what you do.

It is.

Thank

you.

Yes, thank you.

When you walk into our shop in Atelier, it is like literally stepping back in time because we're surrounded by antiques making contemporary headwear.

And when you were both in high school, was this something?

I want to be a hat maker one day.

That's really where I'm going to put all my energy.

How did this even evolve?

She's sitting right here.

It was you,

Kate.

Well, I always knew from a little girl on I wanted to be a costume designer because of singing in the rain, my favorite movie.

And so in the 80s, I was always making all of my own clothes.

I was literally Molly Ringwald in Pretty in Pink.

How awesome.

And so junior year in high school, when we had home ec classes, I made my very first hat.

And that hat was something you would expect on stage.

And it was large and it was tapestry with flowers and feathers and veiling.

And my classmates made like little braided headbands.

That would have been me.

Yeah.

So, you know, I really, I went with it with gusto.

And then in fashion design school, there was only one millinery class available.

And I took it and excelled.

And then it was something I developed throughout my entire career in fashion, in bridal, and then in costume tech, being a costume technician and designer.

The whole process, because I interviewed you many years ago when I was working for a different radio station.

The whole process is so much more complicated than people realize.

Right?

100%.

So if you can briefly explain the making of a hat.

So the whole thing actually starts with sitting down with the client and asking them a huge barrage of questions.

Okay.

So it'll be everything from what colors they tend to wear, what they're going to use it for, if it's a special event or if it's for every day.

if it needs to be rugged or so we go through all sorts of things and then we have them try on different styles that we have in already sure and then we'll look at different colors and we start going through our vintage selection of ribbons and we refine everything down take measurements and then actually a device that I have here that was made in 1892 we use for every custom hat that we make

And it's called the conformature.

It was made in Paris in 1892.

It looks

like a

mechanical top hat.

And when you put that on somebody, it punches out a card with a one sixth reduction of their head size and shape.

And then we put that into another piece, which is an enlarger.

And that becomes a

template.

Yeah, it becomes a perfect copy of their head.

So we can take that and put it on the inside of the hat.

and it custom shapes the hat to their head without them being there.

Wow.

Now there used to be a lot of chemicals involved in the process of making hats, like really not good for you chemicals.

Oh, absolutely.

And when we're talking about hat making, there's actually two main divisions that's millinery and hatting.

So millinery is the art of women's hat making and hatting is...

the art of men's hat making.

So you're not a haberdasher anymore?

A haberdasher is somebody who sells men's hats and other goods.

Oh.

So when we first opened, I was a haberdasher.

We all were.

But when I'm making a woman's hat, I'm a milliner.

When I'm making a men's hat, I'm a

hatter.

And

you're a hatter.

And actually, we have three of maybe about 15 master dress hatters left in the country.

In your store.

Yes, but I can tell you none of the chemicals that we're using are as terrible to our bodies as they were at the turn of the last century all the way through like the 1930s.

We're using much kinder chemicals and stiffeners and sizings and

glues and things to make the hats.

If you're just joining us, we are going beyond the cheese with the McLaughlin and Hayes Hat Company and John and Kate McLaughlin are in studio with us talking about the art of making men's hats and making women's hats.

They used to use mercury.

Oh yeah.

So

good for you.

100% gives you neurological damage.

The first sign of it actually is the loss of fine motor skills, so you would get tremors.

And the hat making capital of the world at the time was Danbury, Connecticut.

And mercury poisoning was so prominent in that area that it was actually known as the Danbury shakes.

And how are they using mercury in the making of hats?

They're treating the fur

The fur felts that we use to make the hats, and they would put them through huge mercury baths to make them more water repellent and water resistant.

Oh my.

So it wasn't just the people working the mercury baths themselves, it was people handling the hats all the way up to the trimming rooms, the vapors would affect the people on the floor above, and we're all sorts of problem.

And how long did it take them to realize that mercury was the problem?

Until the early 30s.

Yeah.

Wow.

So there are little tests we can do today to check like an antique or a vintage hat.

And we do hat restoration and renovation at the shop as well.

We're actually one of the very few shops left in the country that will do full refurbishment of hats, men's and women's.

And there's been a few times where we've had to let a customer know that because of the age of the hat that it was treated.

And so the hatters have to deal with that differently.

And of course price.

Accordingly sure for

that.

Well, that's great to know though if someone has great grandpa's favorite fedora That's been sitting in a closet for 45 years.

There's a place to go and have it restored.

That's remarkable.

That's one of her favorite things to do really renovating grandpa's hat really Resizing

it putting in new sweat bands new ribbons giving them a new life I mean, that's a huge because the quality of the

base felt

that they're

made out of is better than what you can get now.

So refurbishing them is you're getting a better quality piece and you have an emotional attachment to it.

So why not refurbish something instead of making something new?

And I think the best gift to everybody working on those hats is when the the Hatters, John and Steve get into it and they hit that grandpa's hat with steam.

They can often say to the customer,

Did your grandpa smoke cigars?

Did your grandpa use hair product?

Did he wear Bay

Rum hair, hair

pomade or something?

Cause you can smell it.

Oh, he's a Dapper Dan man.

Yeah.

Also too.

One of the things John will often surprise customers with is, oh, grandpa was left-handed and they're like, how would you know that?

And you can tell from the wear pattern on that

hat.

I can

tell which direction they wore it if they tilted it to the left or right.

depending on if there's dirt and wear marks on the felt from the top of their ear.

So you're doing an archaeological

dig on that.

Forensic hat work.

That is so cool.

And then the stories about grandpa, and then the tears often come.

And then I think one of the best things we can do is we have a device from the 1920s that will perforate.

initials into this leather sweatband.

And we've had several times where a hat has come in and it fit the customer.

They had the same size head as grandpa and grandpa's initials will be on one side of the hat

made with the same machine from the 20s.

So when we do it,

it matches.

Yeah.

And we put their initials in the hat.

How long did it take you to acquire all of that machinery from the early days of hat making?

That must have been a process in and of itself.

Finding the equipment is half of the battle.

So there are a good amount of people who are interested, but they don't have, you can't be a race car driver without a race car.

Right.

and finding the right equipment is next to impossible these days.

So we were quite fortunate.

A big bulk of our men's heading equipment actually came from the country is still running oldest hat shop, which is in Detroit, Henry the Hatter.

And when their master Hatter Clarence retired after 45 years in the business, he started there as a porter in the bathroom after World War

II and ended up as the

master Hatter.

and the third gentleman in the world to hold the current owner when he was born because he worked for his father.

And now he worked, his daughter works for them now.

And they are still in existence.

And he wanted his equipment to come to Kate and I because he knew that we'd keep it together and use it for what it was meant for.

So we really just feel that we're the current custodians of this collection.

And we add onto it everywhere we can find pieces.

I

bet.

It's a dopamine hit whenever, whenever, whenever hat blocks or hatting tools come up, it's like our temperature rises and

we

have to have

it.

Bullhunt leads it down.

But I would think that those pieces, when you talk about the blocks and all the things, the early stepping stones of making hats, either just got thrown away over the years, right?

Or ended up in somebody's attic or in their

garage.

late 60s, early 70s, things were really shutting down.

Men's hat wearing was not in vogue for the majority of people.

There's a picture in Pittsburgh of a huge hat factory that used to be there.

And there were so many wood forms and blocks that there were teams of people just throwing them out the windows into the river.

And there's a burn pile in the lot next to the building where they're just burning.

All

of

the boy kills me.

It makes

me want to go scuba diving

in the river in Pittsburgh, which

nobody wants to

do.

And the whole process now, so dealing with contemporary hat blocks and then having antique ones fixed, we lost our last American hat block maker over a decade ago now.

And he retired in his late 80s.

And so when it comes to the wood forms, there's no one in this country that continued the art.

of making those.

Of the sculpture and the proportion of making those.

So if we're getting anything new, the best is coming from Great Britain or Australia.

We're going to continue our conversation with John and Kate McLaughlin, with McLaughlin and Hayes, Hatters, Milleners on KK in Milwaukee.

Stay with us.

This is Beyond the Cheese on that Nair on air.

This is the Civic Media Radio Network.

We will be right back.

Beyond the cheese.

Good morning and welcome back to Matynair on air.

Jane Matynair, Greg Bach, Calvin Butenoff coming to you live from our studio at Radio Park in Racine, where you can join us, call or text at 855-752-4842.

Leave a comment on the live stream on Facebook, YouTube and what used to be Twitter.

Delighted to be joined in studio by John and Kate McLaughlin, owners of McLaughlin and Hayes Hat Company on Knick Knick.

Is it Bayfew?

It

is.

In Bayview, we will include a link to your website in our show notes so people can check it out after the show and take a look at some of the wonderful, wonderful hats for men and women that you make.

We need to bring hats back.

Absolutely.

We really, really do.

My father was a mortician.

He always had his fedora that he wore.

You would not go out without them.

What are your customers like now?

Who's shopping at the Gluffland in Higgs?

Well, our mantra is stand out, look sharp.

So we have clients who of course come in for that aesthetic that they, you know, really pay attention to how they present themselves either because that's how they grew up or they're having a change in life and they want to just give themselves a little more self-care.

We

get people from four or even younger to dead.

You have four-year-olds who want hats.

Or their parents do really and they'll bring them in and it little girls who want to put something on you know Everybody and they're just when they when the kids come in and they see the variety of colors and textures Everything it It's huge for them.

So they you see what they're drawn towards and everybody's got something different.

I bet it's the last thing

you put on It's the first thing people notice

and it's

just an outward expression of who we are

Yep, absolutely.

And that's why when you become a hat wearer, the day you show up someplace without wearing a hat, it is jarring to other people.

I bet.

Because others look forward to seeing what the hat wearers are wearing, even though that they may not be wearing them yet themselves, they look forward to it.

And it's almost every customer of ours, man, woman, everyone in between, it gives a feeling

permission for people to say, you know what?

I can do that too.

I have now been inspired.

You're wearing that.

You're being you.

That's fantastic.

And so that's something too that we really encourage in the shop is to, of course, we rarely put a wrong hat on a person unless they ask because they

do exist.

They do exist.

They do.

There's a lot of math that goes into what we do.

And, um,

But there's just really a joy in our shop because people not only are coming in to get what they want, but they're discovering something about themselves.

And you said something important, though, not every type of hat looks good on every human.

Oh, not at all.

I can't wear, I need a brim.

I have to have a hat with a brim.

Otherwise, I look like a mushroom head.

It's just the way it is.

And so, but it's very much a personal thing.

Oh, yeah, right?

Yes.

Yes, it is.

It comes down to style.

It comes down to what colors you're comfortable wearing, or if there is an event that you're going to that you need a hat.

Do you do a lot

of winnings?

Actually, right now we're doing quite a few in the Atelier, beautiful couture and bespoke bridal.

And now.

Gorgeous.

Yes, thank you.

Thank you.

That's where a lot of my passion lies.

She has a long history with bridal when she lived in Detroit through all of the nineties.

Actually in the city, she worked in high end bridal.

And so that's something in a theme that's come through.

So when she gets to do those pieces now.

Oh,

I bet it's magnificent.

You

do.

I know you do fascinators too.

Oh, yes.

Which

is, which is like a half hat commitment.

Oh, absolutely.

Because you don't, you're, uh,

If you wear a hat, you are married to the hat, essentially.

But a fascinator is a little bit more forgiving.

Absolutely, it is.

And there tend to be more sculpture that we wear that are just fun and fantastic.

Oh, that's

gorgeous.

So just really every hat fascinator whimsy that we might make, they're just so personal.

And another thing that we're starting to see is more moms wearing hats for weddings.

Good.

Yes, which is lovely.

Mother of the bride, you mean?

Yeah.

Mother of the bride and guests and guests.

Because it is, it's a wonderful thing that I think a lot of Americans have forgotten that when we celebrate ourselves or we celebrate the rights of passages for others, we forget that we can dress to celebrate them.

and we're not dressing to be a showboat, we're dressing because we want to honor them and say, we think you're special.

And so here I'm gonna put on this fabulous hat because this is a party.

Yeah, there was one evening we actually had a worker at the Warner Theater for the symphony who showed us to our seats and then said, I'd just like to take a moment and say thank you for dressing up this evening.

You guys look fantastic.

It's such a pleasure when people dress up because we understand that it's a tip of the hat, no pun intended to the performers.

Yeah, absolutely.

You're showing your respect and deference to them.

Yes, you're absolutely right.

You are absolutely right.

You got to check it out.

There's a reason you need a fascinator.

I know there is.

There is something coming up where you need one or a felt hat or a straw hat or any kind of hat that you're looking for.

They can do it at McLaughlin and Hayes.

We only have about 90 seconds left.

Are you training any young people?

Is

there anyone who's coming in?

When we changed our name, we took our partner of 11 years on and he's the Hayes.

And then we do have a couple of people, but nobody dedicated.

We teach classes on both men's and women's hat making.

That can be customized for either groups or longer term to learn skill sets, but we don't have a dedicated apprentice at

at the time.

At the time, but you know, they're very well.

One will pop up.

I'm also currently teaching at Mount Mary University and the fashion department.

Oh, that's

fabulous.

John and Kate McLaughlin with McLaughlin and Hayes Hat Company on Knickenick in Milwaukee.

Go check it out.

We will include a link to their website in our show notes.

Don't miss it.

Thank you both so much for coming down.

Really, really appreciate your time.

It was our pleasure.

We have news coming up next.

And then when we return a little audio sorbet, what is the one thing you're putting off at your house?

This is Matt Nair on air on the Civic Media Radio

Network.

Good morning and welcome back to Mattnare on Air.

Jane Mattnare, Greg Bott, Calvitini on the board, coming to you from our studio at Radio Park in Racine.

You can join us, call her, text.

The number is the same, 855-752-4.

4-842.

Leave a comment if you're watching on the live stream, on Facebook, YouTube, and what used to be Twitter.

Our thanks again to John and Kate McLaughlin from McLaughlin and Hayes Hat Company on Knick Knick in Milwaukee for stopping by for Beyond the Cheese for June.

It's such a great little shop.

We will

include a link

in our show

notes.

So you can check out some of the amazing things that they make.

Hats for men and women and children, you name it.

If you have a special event coming up, it doesn't even have to be a special event.

If you just want to look good.

If you just want to style

a little

bit.

Go get yourself a hat for McLaughlin and Hayes.

It's a wonderful, wonderful.

And one of the few left in the country.

Wow.

That's

amazing.

It really is.

I feel like, I mean, they mentioned it too.

I feel like hats are gonna make us a comeback.

I feel like there are people my age and younger who appreciate some of those.

Are you hat curious?

Oh, I'm very hat curious.

I'm always hat curious, but there's two major problems.

One, just the commitment to a hat like that.

Like I've got like four dozen baseball caps of varying teams and things being said on them and I don't wear them a lot.

Right.

but also I have a ginormous skull.

and the fit's gotta be perfect.

Of course.

And so that's always been a deterrent, and you can't just walk up to a stand to be like, I think this hat looks good, because it's like, it hurts.

Well, that's why you want to go to McLaughlin and Hayes, because

they

will make a hat to fit your head.

Yeah, exactly.

Everything.

We make a hat

to

fit your head.

It sounds like a personal injury attorney, but it's not.

It's a hat.

It's a place that makes a hat.

We make hats for your head.

For

your head, exactly.

Check him out, McLaughlin and Hayes on KK in Milwaukee.

This is the portion of the program that we like to refer to as Audio Sorbet, where we take a little minute to take a breath and get away from the news and get away from politics and just lighten things up a little bit.

So before we started the show this morning, Greg and Calvin and I were having our confab as we always do about what we did over the weekend and we started talking about household projects.

What is the project you need to get done?

and you walk past it every week and you go, oh, I'm gonna do that next weekend.

And

you talk about it out loud to other people every week or month so they can hold you to it.

Yep.

And trust me, they get tired of hearing about it.

I need to fix the crack in that

wall.

Yep.

One of these days.