Good morning and welcome.
Welcome to Matinair on air.
Jane Matinair, Greg Buck, Calvin Butenoff coming to you live from our studio here at Radio Park in Racine.
You can always join us, call or text.
The number is the same 855-752-4842.
You can leave a comment if you're watching on the live stream on Facebook, YouTube and what used to be Twitter Thursday, May 1st, 1st of May.
It's gonna
be
May.
May, showers, spring, April, yeah, whatever.
It's raining.
It's raining.
It's
rainy.
It's very, very rainy.
Make sure you turn your headlights on, please.
I feel like at this point, like, I would say so many cars nowadays, my headlights just are on, period.
Automatically.
And now they're automatic when it goes dark.
They turn brighter.
Oh.
And I have a switch that goes brightest if it senses that I'm alone.
My car's amazing, but I'm just surprised nowadays that that's even an option to turn them off at all.
I
have a 2012, so they don't go on automatically.
Really?
Okay.
All right.
Yes.
Well, Jane is right.
Turn them on.
Please turn them on
in the rain because it really is.
When I was driving down this morning, there were just a couple of stretches where it was raining so hard.
Visibility is terrible.
And if you're driving and you don't have your lights on,
You're hard to see.
That's
weird to me.
Yeah.
Turn on your lights, please.
Just a little reminder.
It is Thursday, which means we have a full show for
you
today.
Jim Santel, our friend and colleague and host of Amicus, a law review Saturdays across the network from 9 to 11 is joining us after the 9 30 news.
We're going to start off by talking about Judge Hannah Dugan.
Yes, who is the Milwaukee County judge who was arrested.
Over the handling of an illegal immigrants who was appearing before her in court and she's put together a legal team now and Jim will be able to walk us through this In the accurate legal terms because we are not lawyers we are
lawyer adjacent exactly lawyer adjacent so stick around for jim santel coming up in just a little bit next hour britney merleau will be here with weather and wine find out how long this rain is going to last jr radcliffe journal sent no sports guru here at 1035 i love the notes that he sent you this morning yeah
The bucks are bad, bad, bad, bad, and bad.
They
are
bad.
They are bad.
So we're going to talk about the bucks, among other things, and we'll wrap it up as we always do with this shouldn't be a thing.
Today, the King Kong versus Ding Dong edition.
Yeah.
This is a good one.
Stick around for that.
That's coming up around 1051.
Wanted to start off, though, with Trump tariffs.
I mean, Trump terrific
tariffs.
Terrific tariffs.
Yes.
If we.
Look back and remember how far am I going?
Oh go back to last year.
Oh, yes Go back to last year.
Yes when Donald Trump out on the campaign trail repeatedly repeatedly said that other countries pay tariffs not consumers Everybody else pays tariffs not consumers.
Yeah
in Arizona last August at a rally
Donald Trump said, Vice President Kamala Harris is lying when she referred to his tariff plan as a Trump tax quote.
She's a liar.
She makes up crap.
I'm going to put tariffs on other countries coming into our country.
And that has nothing to do with taxes to us.
This is a tax on another country, unquote.
In September, during an interview on phone news, it's not a tax on the middle class.
It's a tax on another country.
when Donald Trump was here in Wisconsin, talking about tariffs, quote, it's not going to be a cost to you.
It's going to be a cost to another country.
Now, for those listening who disagree with everything we say, I just want to point out the fact that Jane gave three separate quotes from three separate events from Donald Trump, from Donald Trump.
This isn't fake news.
This isn't lies.
This isn't AI.
Or
fear mongering.
No, it is just him saying.
his words to people and people bought it.
Yes, and people
believed it until yesterday.
Until yesterday.
And there's been a lot of focus on his comments about this.
This is what jumped out at me.
So here is his quote.
Yesterday, someone was asking about the tariffs and about China and the concern
I've been seeing things on social media about the lack of activity at our ports.
Yes.
Especially in Los Angeles, which is supposedly one of the busiest ports in the country.
And the lack of chips in said ports, bringing in goods from other countries.
So he was asked about the tariffs and the effect on American consumers.
Here is what Donald Trump said yesterday, quote, you know, somebody said, oh, the shelves are going to be open.
Well, maybe the children will have two dolls instead of 30 dolls.
So maybe the two dolls will cost a couple bucks more than they would normally, unquote.
This says to me, they're going to be more expensive because of the tariffs, which he has said for months and months and months.
Only other countries pay tariffs.
Yeah, we don't pay tariffs.
You'll be fine.
You'll be fine.
That's a lie.
Yeah, that is a lie.
Yeah, here is how tariffs work Importers import exporters they bring their cut their their goods here our American companies who import them They have to pay the tariff correct at the port.
Yes in order to get delivery of these items
They pick up the extra cost of these tariffs, which then get passed on to us.
That is how tariffs work.
So whether you want to call it, whatever you want to call it, it is essentially a tax on us for goods and services.
And also, not to, I don't want to make light of this, but the whole doll example
just
makes him sound like a, like Ebenezer Scrooge.
Like, they'll have less dolls this year.
It's like, what child do you know?
I mean, I'm sure there are, but like, children don't get 30 dolls.
Seriously.
Like, they ask for one nice doll, and it's just, who is helping him with these examples?
They have to be coming out of his brain, because it is crazy.
I mean, the New York Post jumped on this, and amazingly too, with their headline.
What was the headline?
Skimp on the Barbie.
I mean, I don't go to the New York Post for much, but that, my friends, was just chef's kiss headlines.
And
Lawrence O'Donnell on MSNBC called it Donnie Toodals.
Hey, Donnie Toodals.
Donnie
Toodals.
Hey, Donnie Toodals.
But again, this is an admission that the tariffs are going to land on us as the consumers, because we are the ones who will pay for the tariffs.
No matter what they said,
All of last year out of the campaign trail that other countries pay the tariffs only other that's a lie.
That's not how it works Yeah, and now we know out of his
own mouth the amount of people I've seen like I've seen all those YouTube videos where someone is saying explain tariffs and they explain it incorrectly and then they get told the truth They're always dumbfounded.
Yes, they're always shocked because they are being lied to yes and
Let's I mean I saw this too that when it comes to tariffs how it's hitting Wisconsin Up north news.
Just put this out.
There is a Wisconsin manufacturer because of the terrorists losing out on $300,000 in business because China at the last minute backed out of the contract to say we can't deal with The that's too it's gonna be too expensive.
We don't know if you're gonna be able to pay it.
So like this has all it's not just about the dolls It's about the Wisconsin companies who employ Wisconsinites
Losing massive amounts of money because of a tariff plan that was not thought out because Tariffs are fine.
They're not if they're strategically if they're strategically applied as they've said tariffs are a tool.
Yes, not a weapon and these have been weaponized and Once again rough shot shoddy work, whatever you want to call it and now Guess what folks mean you paying the price
the US Chamber of Commerce US Chamber of Commerce
that wildly liberal organization.
They're so
cray cray.
They are asking Trump for immediate tariff exclusions for small businesses and for any products not readily available in the U.S.
This is the U.S.
Chamber of Commerce asking the president for exclusions on tariffs for small businesses, which are the backbone of our economy.
Yeah, that's not going to happen.
The White House response was
The relief for small businesses is going to come in the form of the largest tax cut in American history.
For the rich.
So suck up those tariffs, small businesses.
Too bad.
If you had maybe an extra million or a million and a half laying around, you could donate to an inaugural fund or something.
Maybe you'd get a carve out, then like, I don't know, Amazon or somebody else.
Well, we only know those coffee shops and auto garages and print shops.
They're all run by billionaires, so they'll get that tax cut easy.
Oh, sure.
Absolutely easy.
I guess for me, the question, you know, I'm sorry, I kind of lost the question in my thought here, but like,
Love how he is admitting that he was he was he's admitting that it's going to be hard But he still has the White House behind him saying it'll be fine.
It's gonna be fine So what's next what would this this two years of pain that Elon talked about?
More than once that we're not more than no one's bringing up by the way two years
of pain
It's all fine.
It's all fine.
And if you're a good American Apparently, yeah, you won't complain about it.
No, you'll just
pay it
and harvest your own eggs, make your own, make your own goods.
Rent a chicken.
Hey, your kid doesn't need a doll, so a dress for
them.
Get a half a doll.
Exactly.
855-752-4842-855-75 Civic Gene from Eau Claire is on the line.
Good morning, Gene.
Thanks for joining us.
What do you want to say about this?
Well, good morning.
And I just have a word for all the common folks, the common folks, you know, the non-billionaires.
Fool me once.
Shame on you.
Fool me twice.
Shame on me.
Wake up, folks.
Have a good day.
Thank you.
Thanks.
Thanks, Gene.
Have a great day.
I do remember what I was going to say is like what the, what the U S, uh, manufacturer, commerce manufacturers are doing.
They're asking for special dispensation for small businesses.
I understand that.
But at this point, it feels like there are the tariffs, and now there are all of these pockets of exception happening to the point where- He was just in Michigan yesterday.
Who will then be affected?
It'll be small businesses that have no lobbying power, and they're going to be the ones crushed.
But that's the free market chain they should have known, but they should have had a million dollars handily in a bank somewhere they can just pass along to the president.
Not a gift
so much.
No, no, no, no, no.
Not
really just a, you know, that's probably the wrong way to put it.
You know, you
need
to pay
off might be a better word.
There it is.
There
it
is.
Pay off.
That's a
word
too.
That's a word too.
I also would love to know what you think about, should companies list the tariff
cost?
Oh, yes.
Should they list the tariff cost?
If you listen to the White House, that's almost treasonous.
Correct.
That's un-American.
You're being...
I mean, they freaked out about that when Amazon was talking about doing it.
Should companies list the cost of the tariffs on your receipt when you buy something?
855-752-4842.
I'm genuinely curious what people think.
855-752-4842.
Should companies be listing the cost of the tariffs on your receipt just so we know how this is affecting us?
On
the
ground, us as consumers and Americans.
Guess what my answer is, Jane?
Don't wait, don't.
We'll get it on the other
side.
There it is, there it
is.
That's called a teaser.
Find out.
855-75-CIVIC will keep this going.
On the other side, stay close.
You're listening to Matt Nair on air.
This is the Civic Media Radio
Network.
Good morning and welcome.
Welcome to Matt and Air on Air, Jane Matt and Air.
Greg Box, week LB on the board coming to you from our studio at Radio Park in Racine.
You can always join us, call or text the number is the same, 855-752-4842.
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Before we went to the break, we were talking about Trump tariffs and after essentially lying.
On the campaign trail about how we're not tariffs, we're not going to have to pay for that.
That's fine.
He called Kamala Harris a liar just making crap up.
I'm going to put tariffs on other countries that has nothing to do with us until yesterday.
When Donald Trump said, oh, somebody's complaining that the shelves are going to be empty.
Well, maybe the children will have two dolls instead of 30 dolls.
So maybe the two dolls will cost a couple bucks more than they normally would, which to me says we will be paying for the tariffs.
Let's use a different example.
Let's take the dolls out of the equation.
Okay.
Telling the parents and the families
Hey, you're just gonna have to buy one package of toilet paper, or hey, you're gonna have to deal with less food available, or hey, you're gonna have to deal with higher prices.
Just deal with it, okay?
This
is the price you pay for being in a great America.
Yeah, exactly.
Two years of pain.
Elon said it, two years of pain.
And we're only four months in.
Not even.
855-752-4842.
Amazon earlier this week got crushed.
after just the rumor that they were going to put the cost of tariffs on receipts.
And then of course, Caroline Levitt, the press secretary essentially called him a traitor for doing that.
And Trump called Bezos and of course they made nice and everything's fine.
Cause they're not going to do it now.
So should companies be listing the cost of the tariffs on our receipts?
855-752-48
Four or two, why should it be a secret?
This should be something we're all proud of.
I am paying this extra for the greatness of Donald Trump.
When I get an airline ticket, when I go to the grocery store, there's a breakdown of the cost, the taxes.
When I book hotels for the club, there's a breakdown of state, local, holiday.
All these taxes, all these percentages, I know exactly what I'm paying, so I know exactly that I'm not being overcharged and what my money's going towards.
I don't see why a, well,
a Trump's tariff, not just tariff, but Trump's tariff should be on every line of every receipt coming because you should know how much you are paying.
And, and honestly, if a small business did that, I would be like, okay, I get it.
You don't like this either, I'm sure, because you're paying more and that means I have to pay more.
But at least there's a, there is a transparency there.
And you can actually see the results instead of, you know, just saying, well, no, it's, it's,
it's not.
Why would this be something that retailers have to hide?
If this is something that's also good, why would we not share this great news and have it there for everyone to see?
Brian from Milwaukee has been patient on the phone.
Good morning, Brian.
Thanks for joining us.
Yeah, good morning.
I agree with you guys that just like the other state taxes, federal taxes that Trump's tariff should be on there.
You know for two reasons one, I want to know where my money is going But two also for the people who voted for Trump, you know, let let the damage sink in Give them, you know, let it sink in because they can start realizing how great they're they're wonderful You know president is and and how it's affecting them and it's it's funny because I think it was port of Seattle Had a photo yesterday that they posted online where guess what?
The port was completely empty.
There was no shipping containers.
And they made a statement saying, hey, there's no more ships coming to and from China.
This is it.
We're done.
Yeah, it's I'm because I am such a great prognosticator.
Let me get my turban.
I'm guessing in about three weeks, three weeks to a month.
We're really going to start seeing the effect on the shelves because it's going to take a little bit for this to work its way through the economy.
Scott Bassent, however, the converse secretary alluded this morning that there's going to be some big announcement about tariffs coming later today.
Thank you, Brian.
So we'll see what happens with that.
But should retailers be listing
the cost of the tariffs on your receipt.
I don't know why this is something we would want to hide.
No.
855-752-4842 and from Chippewa Falls, I think we should know the cost of the tariffs.
Yes, absolutely.
Let me know how great America is by putting it on.
Hey, make it a, call it the MAGA tax.
What a special color.
Yeah, exactly.
Red, white,
gold.
It should be in gold.
Oh my gosh.
Steve from Milwaukee, it's like COVID all over again, deny and deflect on the effects of his policies.
And if the economy picks up say in 2035, he'll be there going, see, I did that.
I did that.
And it just absolutely makes no sense to me that like, I would want to see that.
I think we should have to see that because it just makes more sense.
It also helps just, I don't know, I don't want to say deflect the blame.
But like I said,
Businesses can say, look, this is not something we want to do, but we have to do it.
It's reality.
It's reality.
And trust me, if the situation were reversed and the Biden administration had done this, it would be a requirement for companies to put the cost on their receipts.
Absolutely.
We're going to go to the news.
And when we return, our friend and colleague and host of Amicus a Law Review, Jim Santel will be joining us.
Stay close.
You're listening to Matt Nair on air on the Civic Media Radio Network.
Good morning and welcome.
Welcome to Matt Nair on air.
Jane Matt Nair, Greg Bach, Calvinator on the board coming to you from our studio here at Radio Park in Racine.
You can always join us, call or text.
The number is the same, 855-752-4842.
Leave a comment if you're watching on a live stream on Facebook, YouTube, and what used to be Twitter coming up a little bit later on today, our friend and colleague Todd Alba, the great Todd Alba show from two to four PM.
They're gonna have a...
No Mo May edition of What's Worse.
Today is the first of May.
No Mo May is something that's kind of popped up over the last five years.
So join Todd later on today between two and four for a No Mo May edition of What's Worse.
Right now, we are being joined by another colleague and host of Amicus, a law review on Saturdays from 9 to 11 across the network.
Jim Santel is here, former U.S.
attorney and an acting attorney.
Good morning, Jim.
How you doing?
Right.
A lot of acting going on these days, perhaps more than any of us would like.
Good to be with you, Jane.
Greg, Calvin, as always.
Glad to have you with us, Jim.
There's a lot going on, and we really wanted to focus on the arrest last week of Judge Hannah Dugan in Milwaukee.
This is from ABC News, Wisconsin Supreme Court.
Now temporarily suspends Milwaukee Judge Hannah Dugan after arrest.
So if you wouldn't mind breaking this down for us.
as to what happened with the suspect.
And I'm particularly curious about this warrant that was presented and the questions around that.
Absolutely.
And I think that really is the principal focus.
I should say at the outset, as I always have, when I've spoken recently about this, just by way of background, I know Hannah Dugan well.
She is a professional colleague of mine.
I don't know that I've ever actually appeared in her court, but I knew her as a private attorney, doing all sorts of wonderful things in the community, continue to be affiliated with her.
We're together on various events in the community, one just about three weeks ago.
and I also consider her a personal friend with a small f. We don't hang out routinely, as Greg and I do all the time.
We don't
have a 10 relationship, but I want to let everyone know that I know her well and I regard her as an excellent jurist.
And so what happens here, of course, we know all the specifics of this.
You can actually read the complaint itself.
What happens is, of course, of the United States Department of Justice and significantly
the United States Attorney's Office for the Eastern District of Wisconsin.
This is not coming out of, yes, it is coming out of Maine Justice, but the core office that is responsible for this prosecution is here in Milwaukee, the Eastern District.
It is, again, at 517 East Wisconsin Avenue.
It's the federal courthouse.
I worked there for about 30 years or so.
And so it is important to remember that because this is not just Pam Bondi.
This is not just Kashpatel.
This is not just the president of the United States of America.
This is also prosecutors right here in Milwaukee.
Now, right now, there is an interim United States attorney.
I served in that role a couple of times, or at least once.
Once as an interim, once as a presidential appointed U.S.
attorney.
And the concept is during the periods between administrations.
One leaves, the next starts.
You have to have somebody in charge and control.
That does not in any way mean that you somehow lift analysis and lift examination of the U.S.
Attorney's Office for those things that happened during that period.
And indeed, you should be focused on that because what happens here is that prosecutors in the U.S.
Attorney's Office go to a federal magistrate judge.
They present upon an affidavit, a written document.
It's right here in front of me once again.
and the affidavit is sound by an FBI agent, it summarizes the results of her investigation to this point.
A lot of information gathered from a lot of different people.
And the important thing to remember here, just in terms of the legal side of this, is it's all about probable cause.
The affidavit is not establishing proof beyond reasonable doubt.
That's for a trial down the road.
It's not even coming out of, and here's the other very important point, Jane.
It's not even coming out of a grand jury yet.
Now, what can happen here is that inappropriate circumstances highlight that.
If you've got an exigent circumstance, I need to move quickly.
Yes, the U.S.
Attorney does have the authority to issue basically a criminal complaint upon the approval of a federal magistrate judge.
It is good for 30 days.
And after that 30 day period,
under the federal rules, it expires basically.
And then you have to go to a federal grand jury.
That's in our Constitution, right?
That's Amendment 5 of the Constitution, John Adams stuff.
And so even though that is the basis upon which that criminal complaint, the matter has proceeded to this point, there is also a grand jury in Milwaukee.
23 people, they're polled, they may not be me, but they may be Calvin, maybe Greg, maybe you.
that are pulled in and they have to decide whether or not there is probable cause to indict.
She has not been indicted.
She's been charged on this criminal complaint.
And that's where we are today.
An awful lot more thoughts about the need to go so quickly here on a criminal complaint.
And as you said, Jane, the real concern that I have about this from being there and in the office is decision to arrest on this criminal complaint.
We can dispute whether or not the criminal complaint, whether there's probable cause, there may well be, and a magistrate judges found that again, presumed innocent until proven guilty.
Important to note, right?
But the notion that you arrest someone under these circumstances, here are the standards.
We know them well.
We've talked about them before.
Is the target, is the defendant on a criminal complaint, on an indictment, a risk of flight?
or is that person a danger to the community?
Those are the two things in the rules, in the statutes that have guided the Department of Justice for years.
And here, I look to this and I say, I cannot remember a time in my tenure as an assistant U.S.
Attorney, as United States Attorney, were under these circumstances where you do not have either one of those with respect to Hannah Dugan.
You would make the decision to go ahead and physically arrest her.
put her in shackles, that photograph that, plainly, we have all seen now, sent out by our director of the FBI.
That decision is reserved for what?
For truly violent criminals, people who are engaging in gun practices, drugs, gang activity, all sorts of things that really threaten, right now, the safety and security of our community, and who also pose a risk of life.
Luigi Mangione, perfect situation.
Risk of flight?
You bet
he
was.
He fled.
Risk, danger of the community?
Absolutely.
He shot someone, again, allegedly, again, proven guilty perhaps one day.
He shot someone.
And then you look at the other extreme, Donald Trump.
Four indictments, documents, insurrection, paying off a porn star to be quiet, and also violating the rules of a state in the 2020 election.
In none of those, none of those was Donald Trump arrested.
What happens is you call up his attorneys and you say, come on in, we've got these indictments.
Let's see if next week, Thursday, you can come
in
and we'll do this in a diplomatic, a measured way.
It's safer, it's more secure.
You can make the argument that Donald Trump was both a risk of flight, given what we think may be his financial resources, and also danger to the community.
Maybe so, given what he has done in the past, and even there, even there, the Department of Justice made the determination that there is no reason to bring him in under shackles.
Eric Adams, indicted, again, by the Department of Justice.
What happens there?
Again, a criminal complaint, an indictment alleging fraud.
What's the decision to bring him in, again, in this very measured way, a date certain?
He appears, yes.
Yes, you get processed.
Yes, you get the mugshot, so to speak.
But the notion that somehow this particular case prompts the need to arrest someone in these circumstances, and the final thing I'll say about this, I've gone on way too long, but it's important, I think, to understand, if you made that unsupported decision about arrest, which is, I don't want to say unprecedented, we use that word too much, but
Almost unknown to me and I think to defense attorneys to prosecutors to others out there if you made that decision on this procedural issue to arrest and then of course She's immediately released why because she doesn't pose a risk of danger If you made that decision the same people doing that made the decision that this is a predicate for Charging her in the first place and it makes you and that doesn't make you wonder.
We know what's going on here
It's the Department of Justice calling the interim U.S.
Attorney and saying, we need to make an example
of this
person, charge her, and oh, by the way, grab her and bring her in under shackles.
That is contrary to so many policies and practices of the Department of Justice.
I am horrified and I'm shocked.
that the agency for which I worked for 30 years has made that decision.
If you're just joining us, Jim Santel is our guest.
He's a former U.S.
attorney, also has a wonderful show on Saturday mornings from 9 to 11 across the network called Amicus, a law review, and we're talking about the case of Judge Hannah Dugan in Milwaukee who was arrested last week.
A couple of things I want to go back to just briefly, Jim.
I think what you said about the grand jury is really important.
Grand juries are not made of
of people who the attorneys know are going to be on their side and then they just pick them and pluck them out and put them on a grand jury.
That's not how that works.
Grand juries are made up of regular Americans, correct?
Absolutely, pulled in the same way.
You stock a trial jury.
You're summoned in and there's a process for your selection.
They're in place for 18 months and they decide once again whether the government has shown
probable cause, not poopy and reasonable doubt, probable cause to indict.
And I'm also assuming that if I volunteered to be on a particular grand jury, that might raise some eyebrows and then I might not get picked for that said jury.
You can, Jane, Greg, Calvin, you can send your letter in to the magistrate and say, gosh, I'd really like
to work on
this.
Please.
The woman who is with her hand raised in the front row.
The answer is it doesn't work that way.
You want to get people again who are certainly in the community who have that capacity to we call it critical thinking, right?
To take a look.
You don't be a lawyer.
Typically you're not a lawyer if you're on the grand jury.
Take a look at evidence and apply your common sense.
as a citizen of the community in eastern Wisconsin and determine whether or not again at this lower standard, you are convinced that the evidence, the witnesses you've heard, the documents you've seen, establish that very lowest level of criminal culpability.
So the grand juries who indicted say some of the January 6th attackers.
These were grand juries who decided after hearing the evidence that these people should go to trial.
That's part of what's called due process,
right?
Absolutely.
Every single one of those, those thousand more people, now pardoned as we know, but every single one of them, some of them brought in on criminal complaints.
But again, within 30 days, the US attorneys around the country went into the grand juries, got that document, and that's the basis upon which this proceeds.
Here is the question.
I think you're heading to Jane, which is knowing that these folks in the grand jury, they're on panel for 18 months.
We do not watch their private proceedings.
This is not an open court for all sorts of good reasons.
But they also live in the community.
I suspect that many, if not all of them, have seen the huge amount of coverage about this.
Does one of them ask about the motivation for this?
Putting aside the evidence about this, does that question get asked?
Does that question get answered?
Where is the genesis?
Why are we doing this particular case?
What justice-related law, rule of law-related mission does this accomplish?
That question should be asked by them.
We're going to continue our conversation with Jim Santel on the other side.
Stay with us.
You are listening to Matt and Air on Air.
This is the Civic Media Radio
Network.
Good morning and welcome back to Matt Nair on air.
Jane Matt Nair, Greg Bach.
Calviente on the board coming to you from our studio at Radio Park in Racine.
You can join us, call or text the number is the same, 855.
7524842 Leave a comment if you're watching it on the live stream on Facebook YouTube and what used to be Twitter our guests our friend and colleague and host of amicus a law review Saturday mornings from 9 to 11 across the network Jim Santel is here.
We're talking about the judge Hannah Duggan arrest from last week We're gonna get back to that but breaking news just as we come back on the air from CBS news Trump's national security advisor Mike walls
and his deputy are out at the White House.
Last month, Walls came under scrutiny after putting together that signal chat.
Oopsy included a reporter from the Atlantic who then shared the details of the sharing war plans over an unsecured app, which
has messages that disappear, so they no longer become, they fall under the FOIA rules.
But yeah, this is the first fallout.
And I'd seen a lot of people finger Mike Walz, who was going to be the sacrificial lamb,
because
somebody's got to go for this.
So this at least is the beginning.
And then they could be Pete Hexeth.
for now.
Not for now.
We'll see what happens.
But that's breaking just as we came on the air.
Jim, I want to go back to Judge Hannah Dugan and her arrest last week.
And I think it's really important that we understand how unusual it was for her to be cuffed and arrested and have that all go down because that's not normal.
And they could have, the Biden administration justice department could have done this to Donald Trump, right?
They could have cuffed him.
They could have cuffed him and done a perp walk and they didn't do that because he didn't fall under the, you know, the whole flight risk and all danger to the public and all that stuff, which in my estimation, neither does Judge Dugan.
She didn't
seem to be a
flight risk.
She wasn't a danger to the community.
This was a performative arrest.
Absolutely.
And although he didn't use the word perp with respect to her, I'm also very troubled.
Language means something, right?
Yes.
I'm also very troubled by the fact that my director of the FBI referred to the underlying case.
Again, it's involving Eduardo Flores Rios.
We know about that.
Referred to him as the perp.
And again, obviously it's short for perpetrator.
That's the kind of, I would say, guttural language that I would not expect from law enforcement.
Let's use their name.
Let's identify them as a defendant, those kinds of things.
It reflects once again the point that you made so well, Jane, which is this is for image.
This is for performance.
And this is to tell the world, not just Wisconsin, not just the United States, but the world, look what we can do if you cross us.
And if you take a stand, if you do something, may or may not be criminal in nature.
Again, we'll reserve that for another day.
But if you do that, we will put you in chains and we'll bring you to a federal courthouse and ask you to respond to a magistrate judge who's going to read the charges that we have brought against you.
We talk a lot about deterrence.
You and I and Greg and Kelvin, there is good deterrence and there is bad deterrence, right?
There is good deterrence to stop a particular person from acting.
And then there's the general community deterrence.
You want people to know that if you rob a bank, yes, you will get in trouble, right?
That's a good thing, right?
Here, what you're doing is you're deterring people from speaking.
And again, it's not so much a First Amendment case.
You're deterring people from doing the things that they would otherwise do in support of civil rights and human rights.
Even a judge, even a judge, especially in her courtroom, has that capacity.
What here you are doing is you're sending the message to a larger community.
Don't have to be a circuit court judge.
Maybe you are just among the, again, as you said, the normal people who are out there doing your jobs, doing your work, have your family, your business, making your way in life.
And if you cross us, this might happen to you.
And that's what that picture is all about.
Absolutely.
And at least in Judge Dugan's instance, she's got some resources.
She has assembled a legal team now, but for the average person,
You know, not all of this stuff is being done pro bono.
And we've talked about this before as far as the intimidation factor.
It's not necessarily that you do something the administration doesn't like and they're going to immediately jail you, but they can ruin your life by taking you to court and bleeding you dry financially.
As we've often said on this wonderful program, the investigation and here the charging is the punishment.
And even if it turns out that the grand jury here, others other cases involving people who used to be a part of the Trump administration is identified to already in that category referred for investigation, even if it doesn't result in a criminal prosecution going to trial, the reality is that responding to subpoenas, requests for information, interviews, the financial materials, all kinds of things, that costs money.
And it costs lawyer resources.
And that's why so proud of a portion of my profession.
I'd like to think including me as well that's come forward and said, you know what, we will do that representation pro bono to ensure that those people inappropriately targeted are not are not the victims of complete economic devastation.
Well, and now but we now we have a whole bunch of law firms who have already capitulated to the Trump administration.
And
what the heck are they going to do when the Trump administration comes to them and says we want you to go after this guy and do it for free.
And you're
doing it for a
bono.
And that's the problem in dealing with Donald Trump, of course.
The changing contract, if you will, to put it a whole lot more charitably than it should be, right?
We'll put this arrangement together.
We will stay away from you for now, for now.
But if you run afoul of what we want you to do, then we're coming back and we'll do more of that.
It is, again, deterrence of a very bad nature.
It is intimidation, which is a better way to think about it.
And this, regrettably, again, I ask the question.
I think the Attorney General should be asked, and the Director of the FBI, where did this come from?
What's the motivation for doing this?
Madam Attorney General.
Join Jim Santel Saturdays from 9 to 11 across the network for Amicus Law Review.
Thank you so very much, Jim.
Really appreciate your time.
By the way, Judge, I still volunteer to be on that grand jury.
I'm available.
I'll
be myself available.
News is coming up next.
Stay close.
You're listening to Matt Nair on air on the Civic Media Radio Network.
you
Good morning and welcome, welcome to Matt and Air on Air.
Jane Matt and Air, Greg Buck, Calvin Butenoff coming to you live from our studio here at Radio Park in Racine.
You can always join us, call or text the number is the same, 855-752-4842 or leave a comment if you're watching on the live stream on Facebook, YouTube.
and what used to be Twitter.
We got baseball action coming up at 1235, our broadcast start.
The Brewers at the Sox today, you can listen to the game.
You do have to listen to Terrestrial Radio.
So if you are in the area of WRCE and Richland Center, WISS and Oshkosh, WRJN here in Racine and Kenosha, WCQM in Park Falls and WBZH,
in Hayward, our newest Milwaukee Brewers affiliate there in Hayward.
You can catch the game today.
1235 start the crew.
at the White Sox.
Coming up this hour, Brittany Merleau will be with us in just a little bit.
Civic media meteorologist, give us a heads up for how long this rain is going to last and when it's finally going to get nice.
JR Radcliffe, Milwaukee Journal Sentinel Sports Guru coming up at 10.35.
And then we're going to wrap up the show as we always do with this shouldn't be a thing.
Today it's the King Kong versus Ding Dong edition.
I have a feeling we could spend a whole lot more time on this one.
Calvin found this one again too.
Calvin's on a roll.
But we're going to contain it to that break.
So that's coming up.
Just
still it down to its best elements.
Its best elements, yes.
Coming up at the very end of the show.
Wanted to start off again with some breaking news that happened about 10 minutes ago.
Reports this morning that National Security Advisor Mike Walls
is about to be fired along with his deputy and others on the national security team.
The reporter says, quote, there is unhappiness throughout the national security establishment, as well as the White House, the State Department, Treasury and more.
Allegedly, this has nothing to do with Signalgate.
Signalgate, where our Secretary of Defense, Pete Hegseth, was sharing war plans.
on the Signal app, and they blame Mike Walls because he included this reporter from the Atlantic into this chat who then reported on the details of this chat he was included in.
But no, that's not what they're, they're not gonna blame him for that.
They're saying that the National Security Council is not being run efficiently in an organized way, which is kind of a double positive.
Did the NSA just get doged?
Mike Walsh is out.
It remains to be seen how long Pete Hagseth is going to last.
Oh, that's going to be a hard one.
Because Donald Trump just went on television.
I think it was that same ABC interview where he would not shut up about the picture of the non-existent tattoos.
where he said, I have complete confidence in Pete Hagg-Seth and how dare you ask me.
And he is wonderful and I picked him and you shut up.
Until the week when he says he used to get me coffee, I have no idea who he was.
So we'll see how long Pete Hagg-Seth is going to last.
But Mike Walls, at least according to reporting breaking this morning, is now out.
For totally unknown reasons, he would use the guest hand towels and we told him not
to.
But he hated that.
And then the fish and the microwave was bad too.
So I did want to spend just a little time on this because we know there's no there's no double dealing or inner dealing or anything like that when you're a friend of the Trump administration.
This is the headline government relaxes rules on self-driving crashes.
What does that mean, Jane?
The federal government last week relaxed rules requiring car companies to report accidents.
involving their automation systems.
This is part of a package meant to help American companies develop this technology faster.
Quotes, the administration understands we're in a race with China to out innovate and the stakes couldn't be higher, says Sean Duffy.
As part of the Department of Transportation's innovation agenda, our new framework will slash red tape and move us closer to a single national standard to spur
innovation.
This move largely seen as a big kiss and a gift to Tesla.
Tesla is behind the bulk of crashes involving automation systems that have been reported to the government.
Shouldn't we be reporting crashes?
Yes.
When things are under development, it seems to me like that would be an important piece of whether or not we want to use this technology.
I have two major thoughts on this.
One, we shouldn't be surprised by this.
Not at all.
This is how the Trump administration works.
If we leave out details, we don't have to tell everyone how bad it is.
Let's look back at Trump version one.
Let's not test so we don't know how many cases of coronavirus are out there.
Then the numbers are better and we're fine.
Also,
Don't inject yourself with bleach.
Then we look at their their move with the economy Well, if we just take out GDP growth the economy looks fine.
Just don't count that number and now this one and my other point is remember Jane one of the chief chief massive Complaints about the core about the COVID vaccination was it's too fast.
It's too fast.
It's not safe for people
Don't you want to have a nice, long experimentation on car safety so it is safe for the people instead of rushing the results, rushing the testing and getting rid of certain results that you don't like?
Jane, it's almost like I'm in upside down world right now.
Yeah, that doesn't seem like it's very wide.
No.
And it doesn't seem like it's very consumer friendly.
No, not at, but.
It doesn't matter because the consumer ultimately doesn't matter like car crash it it happens Jane
it does
you you take a chance walking out of your house, right?
But this is no surprise that they want to fudge the results once again, because they just want to look great.
Just by omitting the information.
You're right.
You make a really good point about that.
Yeah, it's part and parcel of what they like to do.
It's their MO.
Make America great again by all means necessary, and especially if it hurts you physically or your pocketbook.
It doesn't matter to them.
They don't care about us, period.
855-752-4842.
I don't know when we're testing new technology.
Should we be including the bad results?
855-752-4842.
I know it's just crazy.
I'm not a scientist, Jane.
No, I know.
I don't, I didn't play one on TV.
But to me, it seems like you would want crash test results to be, I don't know, as honest and accurate as humanly possible.
Seems important.
Cause I don't know, to me, if you also
Omit that information that would lead to I don't know say your your consumers suing you for some sort of fraud or Some sort of nefarious problem.
You just you know, you lied you're lying you are liars if
you're just joining us the federal government late last week relaxed rules requiring car companies to report accidents involving their automation systems their self-driving systems and You know on the plus side
Tesla stock went up.
How much?
Tesla stock surged 10% after the news that they were not going to require this accident reporting because Tesla stock has not been doing so well.
No, at the beginning of the year, it was a little under 500 a share.
And at the worst, just after Wisconsin election, when Elon was humiliated, it was at like 225, I think.
He's and we haven't I mean it's been almost a month.
It's been a month today is a month since the election Have you heard from him at
all in any major now?
He's he's really kind of absented himself from from a lot of the media.
Oh, he's still there.
Yeah, he's still there He's been all the White House meetings.
He apparently wore two hats yesterday I'm not sure what that's totally stable.
I'm not cool enough.
I'm not cool enough.
I don't get it What do we think about
Not having to report crashes 8 5 5 7 5 2 4 8 4 2 you would think that would that would skew a study somewhat if you're not including all of the data
Well, absolutely, but I just I just think of any other car company Would Ford Chevy Toyota any of those groups would any of them say yeah, just
It also once again goes back to the milieu, if you will, of the Trump administration, which is no long-term planning, no long-term thought into this, just right now, what we can get to do
right now,
so we can tell you and get it out on the road.
I'm telling you right now, I don't care if you tell me there's the safest cars in the world, I'm never going to get a self-driving car, unless there's no other option one day.
That is a scary piece of technology.
I agree with you.
Also, nice little gift to Elon.
Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick announced a new rule that any car that's made up of 85% or more parts built in the US will be excluded from the auto tariffs.
And guess what?
This appears to be directly aimed at helping Tesla.
Total domestic content of Tesla's top-selling vehicles ranges from 85 to 875 percent, whereas vehicles by Ford and Honda are under that 85 percent threshold, suggesting the Trump administration is essentially trying to protect Elon Musk's Tesla.
Let's not also forget two years ago, Elon Musk
Tesla self-driving cars were the devil.
That's right.
Well, EVs were the devil.
EV was a terrible thing.
It's awful.
We're going to give cars back on the road.
They're going to take twice as much gas.
Where are the big three right now?
How are they not stomping in here with their money saying, like, we got to do something
about this?
Well, he was just in Michigan yesterday announcing that he's going to give them a car vote.
Oh, great.
Go, go, go.
Okay.
All right.
So, once again,
as we said- They
get their favorite.
Once we said, as we said earlier in the last hour, tariffs with tons of exceptions,
except
for the coffee shop, except for-
Except for small businesses.
Exactly.
Yes.
And this goes back to, I think we should, I would love to see every retailer in the U.S.
include a line of Trump tariffs
And what that cost is on every receipt every time we buy something, I think that would be really useful.
And it's not a lie.
No, it's not.
It's part of the payment.
And we get to see sales tax.
We get to see, you know, when you look at your receipt and what we're paying and where it's going.
And I think.
A Trump tariff line is perfectly
acceptable.
And when you get your Tesla receipt, it should say right there, tariff zero, and then explain why.
Because I successfully lobbied the U.S.
government using influence and money to get my way.
Ha, ha, ha, I'm a multi-multi-billionaire now.
All that in the receipt, please.
Jack from Mirameck on the text line, geez, what's next?
How about not reporting railroad crashes or airline crashes?
This is in perfect alignment with Project 2025, which demands all science and regulatory rules
have to agree with conservative principles.
So here's the result I want, scientists.
Make it happen.
Here's the result.
Now find some evidence that will back up what I want the result to be.
And this is going to come at the cost
of people's safety,
health, and possibly lives.
Unfortunately, yes.
Make America great again.
Good luck in those self-driving cars.
No, thank you.
Bicycle sounding good.
We're going to check out the weather and find out what's going on with Brittney Merleau.
We have weather and wine on the way, so stay with us.
You were listening to Matt Nair on air.
This is the Civic Media Radio Network.
I'm only happy when it rains I'm only happy when it's complicated
Good morning and welcome back to Matt Nair on air.
Jane Matt Nair, Greg Bach, resident young person Calvin on the board coming to you from our studio at Radio Park in Racine.
You can always join us, call or text.
at 855-752-4842.
Leave a comment if you're watching on the live stream on Facebook, YouTube, and what used to be Twitter after the 1030 News Journal Sentinel Sports Guru JR Radcliffe will be here.
We're going to talk about the box.
Do we have to?
Yes, we have to talk about the books.
And other things as well.
So join us for that.
And then we're going to wrap up the show as we always do with this.
Shouldn't be a thing.
Today it's the King Kong versus Ding Dong edition.
Stay tuned for that.
Right now, she joins us every Thursday at this time for a little weather and wine.
Civic media meteorologist, Brittany Merleau.
Good morning, friend.
What is the weather in Warsaw
today?
Good morning.
It's damp and dreary.
Just like the rest of the state, basically.
That's
a really big storm system that's over Wisconsin.
Yeah, it really is.
The low pressure itself right now is sitting over Jamesville right now.
It's kind of interesting.
You can just see the wind spinning all around it.
But I mean, it is spreading heavy rain throughout the state all the way north into the Fox Valley.
I mean, I'm in Wausau getting rained on for hours now.
It's not as heavy though as you guys got.
I mean,
I was looking at totals, three quarters of an inch to an inch already, and we're not
done.
That's a lot of rain in a short period of time.
So we're not out of this yet.
Is this going to last a couple of more days?
So what's happening is we have this one low pressure down south that's quickly moving through the state, and then we've got another one that it's dragging behind it tonight.
So that's going to be moving into the northwest part of the state, bringing in a little bit of more rainfall pretty much overnight, but still adding to those totals, rising those rivers, continuing to soak the ground, and of course it's going to linger.
It's taking it sweet time tomorrow now.
At first the rain was only going to stay till the morning, but now
It slowly wants to move through Wisconsin.
So that means in the morning rain showers up north and then by the afternoon and p.m.
tomorrow, those will be lingering down south.
Then we finally get the high pressure system, a big huge one blocking all of the systems for the weekend for early next week.
And it tries to for the entire week, but I'm not so sure about later on.
There might be another system that nudges in, but it's going to warm us up.
It's going to give us a ton of sunshine.
We're looking at 70s, like.
Actual spring semi-summer temperatures.
Is that are we
okay?
Is this mid 70s or up here up low 70s or upper 70s?
Well, it depends where you are in the state, but yes south mid 70s.
It's too warm Wow, okay.
Wow.
It's me.
It's
now, you know, everybody always complains.
It's me.
We should be like 65 68
You know, and then you get into June
and then
you start getting into lower seventies and then maybe by July and a July.
It's 82.
This is just my wish.
Also, if you ever need to watch the live stream, please watch when Jane does her weather dance.
So many reasons to watch the live stream.
You may not be aware,
but even this past Monday in Kenosha, it was 80 degrees when I went to bed.
Yeah,
it was so warm.
And it was like, the thing of like, you realize, oh, the heat's on because it's still April.
And then you got to open the doors and it's still warm.
You're like, not going to turn the air in April?
Well, and
now that we have a meteorologist here, what are your thermostat rules, Brittany Merleau?
When do you turn it on and when do you turn it off?
No pressure right now.
Tell us,
Brittany.
Oh, that's tough.
I try to hang out as long as I possibly can because I want to be the strongest and toughest.
Of course.
Right.
So, you know.
I'm not going to turn the AC on until it's hitting that humidity into like the mid 60s to low 70s.
It's really sticky ghost.
And then of course, temperature has got to be probably into the 80s for me to turn the AC on.
Wow.
I need two things to work.
Wow, she's tough.
I'm such a wimp.
I'm also a big boy, so I'm like always warm.
So when do you turn on your ear?
You usually turn on around me because honestly, our house.
For one thing, it's a two story house and the second floor just does not get
as cool,
which sucks cause
we pay for it.
But also it just doesn't have the best circulation either through the house, the way it's deadline.
So yeah, we turn, we turn the air on early.
All that to say, we just turn the air on early.
That's okay.
Well, and now actually now it's getting so warm in the state that, you know, you used to be able to wait until June, until you had to turn the air on and that's not so much the case anymore.
So it sounds like the weekend at least is going to be pretty good and into next week, Brittany.
If people want to get outside and start working in the garden and stuff.
Oh yeah, absolutely.
I would be careful though.
Friday night, we are looking at some cold temperatures dropping through the state.
So a freeze up north, likely patchy frost down south.
This is again tomorrow night.
And then, of course, we'll start to warm things up a little bit.
Also, those allergies,
whoa.
I feel really... I don't really notice.
Yeah, I feel really badly for folks who suffer from allergies.
I'm struggling.
My pets are struggling.
It's not just us.
You know, we're all going through it.
The tree pollen is just outrageous.
I mean, it is very high throughout this entire week.
Now, the rain right now is actually calming it down a little bit.
If you get a steady rain, that actually helps.
It knocks the pollen to the ground and keeps it out of the air.
But if you get downpours like we had on Monday, all of that heavy, heavy rain, it is breaking up the pollen, spreading it more and making it worse.
Not to mention, I mean, the seasons are about three weeks longer because it's kind of the same thing you're saying.
It's warmer, longer.
We're having, you know, freeze frost free longer seasons, longer growing seasons.
So here we are struggling even more.
And expanding the the allergy season is essentially what it's doing.
I'll just, uh, proclaim what I think is the one of the greatest inventions ever is the neti pot.
If you are some version of that, if you are having allergies or, you know, sinus congestion and pressure from those allergies, get yourself a neti pot.
It does wonders.
It's weird as heck.
Just don't, yeah, do it in private.
Do it in private in your bathroom.
Don't tell people about it.
I do it three times a day now.
I've heard good things about it.
It looks weird.
Oh yeah.
Absolutely.
Be alone.
I think that's a good ending.
Brittany Merlot is Civic Media's meteorologist.
She joins us every Thursday at this time for a little weather and wine.
Thank you so much, Brittany.
Appreciate it.
Take care.
We have news coming up next, and then we're going to talk all things sports with the Milwaukee Journal's J.R.
Radcliffe.
Stay with us.
You're listening to Matt Nair on air on the vast statewide, countrywide.
You can take us global if you got the app, baby.
Civic Media, Radio Network.
Good morning and welcome back to Matt and Air on Air.
Jane Matt and Air, Greg Bach, Sweet Calbee on the board coming to you from our studio.
At Radio Park in Racine, join us.
Caller text, the number is the same, 855-752-4842.
Leave a comment if you're watching on the live stream, on Facebook, YouTube, and what used to be Twitter coming up in about 15 minutes.
We'll wrap up the show as we always do.
With this, shouldn't be a thing.
Today, the King Kong versus Ding Dong Edition.
Stay tuned for that.
It's a good one.
Right now, he joins us every other Thursday to talk all things sports.
Journal Sentinel Sports Guru.
JR Radcliffe is here.
JR, we're just going to get this sad, painful stuff out of the way at the very top.
And I loved your notes that you sent us this morning saying, the bucks are bad, bad, bad, bad, bad.
Pretty, pretty much they're just bad.
They are bad.
That was a really bad year.
It was a bad
yeah It was a really bad year some of it for reasons that were out of their control obviously After the last last two seasons getting eliminated in the first round of the playoffs all the emphasis is just get to the playoffs healthy because if you do and you have everybody healthy You're you know, you you're gonna have a better outcome than you have had these past couple seasons when they were not Unequivocally not healthy so they get there
Damian Lillard overcomes a blood clot in his leg to play.
It's like this crazy miracle track that he was on to to be healed in time.
And then he tears his Achilles not a lazy out now for the rest of this playoff series, which is now terminated, but he is he's out probably for the vast majority of next season and maybe even the entirety of next season.
It could not have gone worse.
It
was such a disaster after a regular season of kind of working through it a little bit.
It wasn't.
Pleasure to watch it wasn't it was it was fine.
They won a bunch of games will probably take for granted in the years ahead how many games they won and how operative it is to have a team that wins 40 some games a year that's it could be so much worse, but It was not a fun season.
It was not a fun finish.
It is The Pacers were the better team.
I mean given the players that the pucks were able to put out there Yanis played unbelievably well just ridiculous basketball from
You know just truly one of the greatest things ever happened in Milwaukee He was at his best and they still couldn't do it and that's a that's a it speaks to the rest of the roster Which wasn't good enough but also the fact that the number two guy the guy that you know You are still building around him as well with Giannis Giannis and little together what you're building around and then when that Center, you know center load bearing wall is gone It's just it's just not gonna work out and I think they did everything they could and they just they just didn't have it
Well, I feel so badly for Dame Lillard.
I mean, this because he's what in his mid thirties late thirties.
Yeah, it'll be he'll be what 36 by the time he comes back.
I
mean, this is this has got to be frightening for him as far as what the rest of his career is going to look like.
For sure.
And that's that's of course, one of the top, you know, is he going to play basketball again?
And he says he wants to.
And he's not the type of player to just lay down and let an injury dictate how things are going to end.
He has had.
You know injury history before and he's fought through it obviously the the blood clot being being the most recent example so um He's gonna play again, and I think he'll probably play for the bucks I can't really imagine a scenario where they can sort of like Move that contract somewhere else or you know like part ways with him quietly or something There's just no real way to do that.
So I think I think he'll make it back
You know, one of the data points is Kobe Bryant about the same age about a year younger had a torn Achilles as well and he tore it in April and he came back in December now Kobe Bryant is a You know much larger human being a tremendous, you know, like one of the greatest of all time I would not suspect that Damien Lillard who is just going to be back by December of next year I suspect it's at least you can look at that example and say well, maybe February March or more importantly, maybe by the time the playoffs start
But then it's a question of, okay, sure, he's available, but well, then
you got to get back into the team.
Yeah.
Right.
Right.
Now the team has moved on and presumably rebuilt it because there will be a lot of rebuilding without him.
Do they rebuild as a team that is assuming there will be no Damien Lillard or do they build a, you know, leaving kind of that spot open for when the playoffs roll around and maybe he's the missing ingredient.
Those are probably two different courses of action.
So can they just re add Damien Lillard in the playoffs?
Or the more likely scenario they just don't even have him for the playoffs and they just have to soldier through next season.
And then of course the big question that everyone is asking is does Yanis at Dettacupo want to go through even a short rebuild?
He's across the other side of 30 now.
Does he want to do that?
Or does it make sense for the Bucks to try and find a trade partner and plan for the inevitable valley that they're going to go through?
And that's the thing everybody wants to know.
That's the thing everybody's
asking.
You and Calvin to have that discussion as far as Yana staying here in a moment.
I have a big question though.
Doc Rivers, what?
Doc.
The doc because he is charming in his post.
I was, we were saying this earlier.
His post game interviews are charming, but they're charming when they, they, they're winning.
So if they lose, they lose, but his.
Post game interviews when they lose almost come off as apathetic and there I never felt any sort of like energy from him and he's also got a terrible postseason record and With the exception that one-ring victory he's got which is great, but it just feels like Doc Rivers was a bad choice for this team.
I I don't know if I think he's a bad choice.
I There are certainly flaws, you know, and I think even aside from the news conferences you could just point to
It seemed like their lineup wasn't working that there were potentially there was potentially a better lineup.
And then he went to that finally in game five, those guys played an unbelievable amount of 40 minute, you know, five guys playing 40 plus minutes.
You didn't see a lot of Brook Lopez.
You didn't see a lot of Kyle Kuzma.
And that it worked.
They were they were up eight with 40 seconds to go in overtime.
The fact that they lost that game is a tragedy, but also may be indicative of the fact that they all were very tired by the end having played as much as they had.
Maybe he should have identified that sooner for sure.
I don't know if he's the right fit.
I am hesitant to say there is definitely a better fit out there because Mike Budenholzer was fired and there was not a better fit out there, at least not the choice that they made, which was Adrian Griffin.
And that was dysfunctional and 30 and 13 might have been the record, but nobody was happy with that.
And they immediately had to move on and not panic hire, but I don't know, kind of a panic hire.
Who's available at that point in the middle of the season, who's capable of leading a team at this caliber.
Doc Rivers was probably one of the only guys around.
Could they do better?
Yeah, probably, probably.
But like, after they botched Putin-Holzer, I'm not wholly confident that they would identify that person and move forward in a way that is gonna dramatically change the outcome here.
Like, Yanis, if you want him back, and I'm sure they do, they want him back.
Probably wants a little bit of familiarity here.
Or, you know, you get rid of the coach.
That's one more data point, one more reason for him to maybe move into it in a new direction if he wants.
I don't know.
And I have no idea, of course, what's in Yanis's head other than what he said, which is he loves it here.
He wants to stay.
Yeah.
So I don't know.
Yeah, I don't know.
I'm conflicted.
I want Yanis to succeed and have a great career, even if it means leaving Milwaukee, but at the same time, I won't be able to not hold that against
him a little bit if he does.
That's totally fair.
I think as far as him moving on, I don't know where would even really make sense.
Me and Greg talked about it off the air.
In reality, Indiana, a team like Indiana is a team that makes sense, but
There's no way Yanis is gonna go to Indiana.
He has some bad blood there
Sure, and let's say I mean first of all what you kind of hit on like whatever Yanis wants to do He's gonna you know that should be the course of action if he wants to stay they should do everything They can to keep him and build around him if he wants to go they should honor that it's been 13 incredible years He's done everything he possibly can't so I But I think he wants to stay at least everything we know about him indicates he wants to stay so
Do the Bucks then still pursue a trade believing that there's a better future for the Bucks if they move on now?
Let's say that Pacers, I think are a really good example.
Let's say they make a trade with the Pacers.
They would get some draft picks.
They would get Pascal C. Occam, let's say their best player and Benedict Mather and Ben Shepard.
Like let's just throw, that's an actual trade scenario that won website throughout the ringer that when we're looking at trade scenarios.
Okay.
They get those guys back.
Not bad.
Those draft picks, not worth anything because.
The Pacers have Yanis they're not going to be picking in the top half of the NBA draft so that whatever draft picks they get there could be for future years or whatever Presumably Indiana is going to be really good and therefore their draft picks will be very bad
8% less than 8% of guys drafted outside of the top 15 picks will become an all-star someday It's it's you're just not getting top-level franchise changing talent with draft picks from teams that aren't truly terrible So that's not gonna really matter a whole lot.
The players you get good players fine I mean, I think those are really nice players that team isn't better than the current bucks team The current bucks team with the honest is still going to be at worst the same as the next bucks team with Pascal Siak and those other couple guys and maybe a couple
You know, couple other guys that you signed, it's going to be at best a lateral move.
And then it's just depreciates from there because those guys get older.
They're just not as skilled as Giannis.
Giannis is the best path forward.
I'm not saying the path forward is a good one with him because I don't think this team is going to be competing.
This team is not going to compete for a championship next year, but they won't either way.
So do you want to have a team that is at least competent is going to make the playoffs has Giannis and is a fun product?
I mean, do you want that?
Or do you want to?
Try to move on this team doesn't have a lot of their own draft picks They've made a million trades over the years to satisfy to satisfy honest to build a winner to win a championship They're still gonna be paying for the drew holiday trade all those years ago.
They are not in position to improve this roster They're not gonna have young players.
We're not gonna have high draft picks.
They're just stuck So I personally would rather be stuck with the honest because at least there is a chance that that team is competitive Maybe they catch lightning in a bottle end up with a top four seed
I don't see it.
It's possible.
It is impossible if you trade him.
Now you're dedicating yourself to many years in the valley before you can come back out.
And I'm talking like six, seven years.
You just, guys like him, obviously they just don't come along.
You cannot replace that.
If you're just joining us, JR Radcliffe is our guest sports reporter for the Milwaukee Journal, Sentinel.
And we're talking about, it was not a good season for the bucks.
It was kind of painful.
And we were talking off the air too about.
It was only four years ago that they won, right?
The championship.
Is it unusual, JR, for a team to fall four years later compared to where they were at the pinnacle or is this an oddity?
I would say
the Bucks are the oddity in a different way that they have sustained this success.
There are not many teams over the past seven years that have had that level of success.
Boston has.
But you've seen like teams like the Clippers that have kind of risen up the Dallas Mavericks are a good example.
They've risen up and then they've kind of fallen back.
The Lakers have had some ebbs and flows.
The Raptors won the title before, you know, before the Bucks got really good and they are bottomed out there.
They are not a playoff team this year.
So like there are.
It is very difficult, especially outside of like a small handful of franchises, to sustain what the Bucks have sustained.
It is not unusual for them to go from championship to a team that gets eliminated in the first round.
I mean, that is not uncommon.
We've had Golden State, they've been pretty close to a dynasty that we've seen in recent years, but
It's this is this is pretty impressive what they've done and a lot of that is the fact that they have one of the three best players three Generously saying three like it could be easily two or one one of the one of the best players in the sport So that obviously helps them continue to stay really relevant and really really good
They've had some bad luck in these first round exits.
It's been really tough.
You know, it is not a common to see teams shed coaches who win championships.
That has been a recurring theme.
A lot of the coaches that have won championships in recent years have been let go within two to four years of winning one.
So that's not unusual.
They will, but like we aren't prepared for the level it will dip to, if Yanis is gone, it's, you know, and.
I don't know if there's like a if there is a way out there might be John horse might have a rabbit that he can pull out of his hat to you know, keep you honest and and get through this and be a championship caliber team Next year the year after that.
I don't think it exists, but it doesn't it doesn't work without you.
Honest, otherwise you're going you're going into a deep dark abyss if you honest is gone
Well, I thank you for that because honestly, that's what I've been thinking about ever since the playoffs started was the fact that like oh god, they suck but
the way you're describing it.
No, they don't.
They just got to get better.
So follow J.R.
Radcliffe and his reporting in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel.
He joins us every other Thursday to talk all things sports.
Really appreciate your time, J.R.
Thank you so much.
See you guys soon.
See you soon.
Coming up next, this shouldn't be a thing.
King Kong versus Ding Dong Edition.
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Coming up on the show tomorrow, Dan Schaeffer will be here from the Reconpopulation Area, also Civic Media's political editor.
Also one of the biggest Bucks fans.
We all know would
take it in morning.
Oh, yeah.
He's been wearing black.
Yeah.
He's been wearing a lot of black.
By the way, if you are a recombobulation area subscriber, yes, they're having a subscriber.
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Dan Schaefer, the Reconpopulation Area, third space brewing from five to seven p.m.
Also tomorrow, the Fat Bird vote starts.
You think I'm gonna let this go?
You are crazy.
No, I get your text messages.
I know you're not going
to
let it go.
Fat Bird votes tomorrow in Wisconsin.
We will have more details for you and we'll include the link.
So we can do the
matchups.
The feather to feathers.
And we're plumage to plumage.
Oh, plumage to plumage, face
off.
And we are working on, or we
have Emma Schatz coming back.
Emma Schatz is going to be back on May 12th.
Oh boy.
After the results, they're going to announce the results May 12th, I believe about 9.15.
And we're going to have her at 10.20.
It's like hot off the
presses basically breaking
news.
I know we're WBA.
Are you listening?
There you go there for next year So join us tomorrow as a fat bird week voting gets underway.
It's getting late 1150 1055 Calvin time for this shouldn't be a
thing
Calvin found this one and we're not gonna have nearly enough time We may have to bring this back tomorrow.
This is from USA today Amorous and seen us
Who wins in a fight between 100 men and a gorilla?
Expert ways in on viral debate YouTube personality mr. Beast Oh God this idiot and lifestyle influencer James Charles are among the many voicing their opinions on apparently what is a big debate Calvin you are more hip up on this than than we were so it's just a hypothetical about Ken 100 men
beat a gorilla right
yeah it stems from this viral tweet that was like some guy saying that if he had a hundred people that were really dedicated he thinks they could take on a gorilla and people started making fun of him for how ridiculous it was yeah but then it started
people genuinely started asking the question and it kind of became a meme.
And the thing too is that when Calvin first brought this up, we kind of were all in agreement that this is one of the stupidest premises ever.
And we thought we had moved on.
No.
Here we
are.
Yeah.
Here we are because there are all kinds of hypotheticals.
Yeah.
Cause we were like, and that's when it devolved this hypothetical spurs, all kinds of other hypothetical situations.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I have a, I mean, first of all,
Expert come on.
Let's let we use that word generously but No, no, they don't
100 men cannot be the gorilla.
No
logistically.
No, see and I disagree with you just numerically 100 men Yes, could be a gorilla.
How though is it 100 punches in a row?
Well, and again, this is where Calvin because these are the things that that are being discussed now Yeah, the finer points of this fight
The hypothetical, first posted on what used to be Twitter, has turned into a full-blown discussion including memes across several social media platforms.
Some have taken enough time to carefully consider the question and give a thoughtful response.
Others are having more fun reacting to the random trains of thought.
President and Chief Science Officer of the Dion Fosse Gorilla Fund, the woman knows gorillas, she knows from gorillas, said the numbers game really works in favor of the people.
I just, I think that if you're just a hundred people in there.
40 of them are gonna run away, scared.
And I told you this before, and I'll say, and this might sound very extreme, but I think that gorilla uses one human to start beating up other humans.
But again, I just think you're outnumbered by so much.
But there's so many people
piling at
you, people can't get to that.
But if it was 10 guys, the gorilla would probably win.
You're talking about a hundred people.
Yeah, I know, but... And one...
Poor, lowly gorilla.
Yeah,
that's the other thing too, is I really don't like this.
I don't really like this scenario, putting that thought into my head either.
I think in terms of being able to prolong a battle that would eventually wear a gorilla out, and our ability to cooperate and coordinate, I think those elements kind of work against the gorilla.
According to Tara Stowinsky, who is with the Dion Fosse Gorilla Fund.
What does she know?
Expert Schmechner.
I just think humans would fail at this task.
And the gorilla would find a way.
I want to believe
what what amazes me is just how much time and effort is being devoted to something entirely hypothetical.
Calvin,
we're already three and a half minutes
into that.
So any final thoughts?
Calvin bucks and six.
Yeah, no, I mean, it's definitely an interesting question.
And it's always weird what catches fire on the Internet.
King Kong versus Ding Dongs.
That wraps up today's episode of.
This shouldn't be a thing.
Thank you Greg and Calvin and all of our engineers without you.
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