Transcript
Trying to get a connection- lead free water. (Hour 1)
The Earl Ingram Show · Wed Mar 26, 2025
Good
morning and welcome
the Yerling Room show.
As always you can join us at 855-752-4842.
You know I need to let that play a little bit longer.
mother, mother, mothers.
There's far too many of you crying because what we're about to talk about is going to encompass all of that.
Good morning.
Welcome back to The Early Income Show.
As always, you can join us at 855-752-4842.
You can text us at that same number.
Good morning to you, Cardi.
How you doing?
Man, I'm pretty good, Earl, man.
It's a Wednesday, I think, right?
Yeah, it is that.
And, uh, but it's good to have you back.
Appreciate that, man.
I was a little under the weather yesterday, but I feel a little bit better today.
All right.
You're with the living.
Uh, but when you're 31 years old, we should expect you to be with the living.
Uh, 31 years old, Robert.
baby.
Baby in the woods.
Well, maybe Paul remembers being 31.
Yeah, I was like two days ago for a while ago.
Yeah.
All right.
Anyway, get the let out coalition is back.
We're joined by again, Robert Miranda from Black Paul Swartz co-founder of a campaign for lead free water.
And we're joined by Dr. Christian Payne, lead safe schools MKE.
Good morning to all of you.
Welcome back.
Good morning.
You know, guys, the information that can't be hidden anymore about what is really a tragedy of epic proportion in Milwaukee public schools is is heartbreaking, man, because for a lot of reasons, you know, if this thing is, you know, unraveling at the rate of sun raveling,
And they're gonna find out, again, just how many schools, since Milwaukee Public Schools has 156 schools, just if you just on a small scale, let's say 15%, 20% of them, look at the shared numbers of children that have been exposed.
And Robert, for decades, for decades to lead.
And, you know, and we're just talking about 15%.
We know the numbers are a lot higher than that.
And worse yet, it almost appears as though they don't know what they're doing and fixing it.
Robert, I'll let you take it from there.
I'm glad you started this way.
The reason I am perplexed by all of this is, you know,
Since 1978, we've known that lead-based paint has been a hazard in these buildings, and something needs to be done to remove this hazard from these buildings.
In 1986, the United States banned the use of lead service lines, those lines that connect from the water mains to the inside of the buildings.
a little over five decades we have been dealing with this issue not only in our homes but in our schools and you would have thought that when this all got banned and everything was being exposed about the dangers that led possess
public and what is going on with the health of our children and how it impacts their education and how it impacts the streets of our community that institutions like MPS would be smart enough to every year set aside funding dedicated dedicated to at least moving to remove all sources of lead in each of their building.
If we would have done that when all of this started
when they banned everything back in the 70s and 80s.
Today, we'd probably beat about 75 to 85 percent of all schools and MPS having their lead removed, all sources of lead removed because they renovated all these buildings.
But the politics and the economics played into it and today we're having to deal with this situation and
every 10, five years, a crisis comes up.
We had a crisis come up with the water at NPS 10 years ago.
Now we're having a crisis come up again.
We can't continue to leave our children exposed and not only our children, but staff, workers over at NPS exposed to this dangerous toxin that science has shown has
No discrimination can affect anybody and destroy minds of children.
There's got to be a way to begin the process of dealing with this and not just putting a band-aid over it like they've been doing for the last 50 years.
So let me ask you, Robert, before we move on to the other guests.
the buildings belong to the taxpayers in the city of Milwaukee.
What role does the city of Milwaukee play in this?
To just say that Milwaukee public schools alone is culpable, wouldn't be accurate, would it?
Well, the city of Milwaukee should be playing the role like property owners play when they're told their homes are toxic because of lead paint.
They have to do something about it.
Well, hello, city of Milwaukee.
Wake up.
You can't just be enforcing the laws on property owners.
You've got to do the work that needs to be done on your property too.
And that means the Milwaukee Health Department needs to get in there and full force and start addressing this matter rather than continuously passing it on to, well, MPS has got to do something.
No, you're the property owner.
You need to do something about it more than just telling us, we got another building infested.
We need something from the city as well to support the removal of this and put some funding into this and deal with the politics if they got to deal with it.
But the bottom line is the city of Milwaukee has the responsibility to remove this toxin from all of the buildings that it owns in NPS.
So, so Robert, are you saying Camelot be damned?
But you know, fortunately, fortunately, the city of Milwaukee has a group that has come out of this.
The Dr. Kristen Payne's group, Let's Save Schools.
It's no joke, man.
No, it's not.
They are serious about this matter.
They see it.
They have leadership in this group that understands the dynamics that are involved here, understands the threat that it represents to future generations of our city.
pain here today.
I'd like for her to go ahead and get us started on, you know, what's been going on, give us an update where things are and and let's see what we could do to continue the momentum on this effort.
Dr. Payne.
Yeah, so.
The most recent update is that on March 19th, the Wisconsin Department of Health Services issued a non-compliance order to MPS and specifically named Sean Kane, who is the Senior Director of MPS's Department of Facilities and Maintenance Services.
And in this order of non-compliance, they documented seven types of violations.
Most of the violations had multiple occurrences.
And this involved all of the lead remediation that had been occurring at the school.
So there were multiple statutes and safety regulations that have been violated.
And in that order, then they require certain fixes.
So they have to now alert.
the health department and the Department of Health Services a couple of days before they even go in to do any lead remediation.
But one of the things that was noted is that they have failed to notify any parents or guardians at these schools of the remediation that was to take place.
And that's required by state law.
You know, Paul, it
It certainly seems to me that they're setting this up where we get this one guy this one guy who's in charge of of Doing this and he's not doing a good job.
So we can point the finger at him make him the boogeyman and We'll get rid of him and and maybe things will quiet down but Paul in Washington DC when you guys have had to deal with things
What role did the city play in all of the actions that you guys took over the years?
Yeah, so the the city played a corrosive role by recruiting parents to flush the schools the night before in the morning of when there was doing when testing was happening.
Parents and the community folks had to intervene to blow the whistle on that.
And this really just sort of points to the importance of let's say schools in Milwaukee and get the let out and fresh water for life action coalition.
And for communities around the country, it's really important to put pressure on the elected officials because really we're in the phase now.
the circle of all the different institutions and individuals who are responsible and need to be responsive to the community are just pointing fingers at each other.
And this is what happens so that accountability is evaded and all of the different institutions don't have to step up and coordinate and listen to the parents and the community about what the problem is that we can see with our own eyes.
I just want to say that as we
move from the winter darkness into the spring light.
This is the hopeful thing that folks have stepped up and are calling out the behavior that's going on that needs to be modified to protect people.
We didn't get into this mess in a minute and we're not going to get out of it in a minute as well.
This is as Kristen and I have talked about a marathon and so it's going to take
a real time like Robert Miranda, my colleague has put in overtime to get this correct.
You know, guys, it just as Christian and Paul have kind of mentioned, Robert, when we talk about the city, you got to talk about the mayor, you got to talk about the coming council.
You got to talk about all of these players because the coming council doesn't get a pass because when we say the city, we're talking about
City officials right eight five five seven five two forty eight forty two It's it's get the lead out Wednesday eight five five seven five two forty eight forty two dr. Christian paying Paul Swartz and Robert Miranda and you on the Earl Ingram
show
Sometimes I feel a little mad But don't you know that no one alive can always be an angel And when things go wrong I'll see you
To the Earl England show as always you can join us at eight five five seven five two forty eight forty two eight five five seven five two forty eight forty two Texas at that same number I'm joined by to get the let out coalition Robert Miranda of Flack Paul Swartz of co-founder of campaign for lead free water and Dr. Christian pain for lead safe schools MKE you know guys
There's a new superintendent.
And, and so people are saying, I'm having conversations that I'm having with people are saying, well, you've got to give her a chance.
And, and, and I'm not saying she, she is clearly not a person who was around when these things happened.
But guess what?
She's a superintendent now.
And you can't say.
okay, she didn't have anything to do with it because the issue is there.
And so you don't get a pass.
This is a critical, critical issue.
And anybody who doesn't think that this is the number one issue that our city, the county, and the state should be concerned about, man.
50,000 or more students in Milwaukee public schools, 50,000.
And not to mention all of the kids who've been exposed decades before.
There should be a caucus of city, county and state.
And they need to be talking about this right now.
And so.
You know, Christian, you guys having meetings I mentioned to you before, you should inform me and let me know, because I'm going to be there, and I'm sure something civic media would be concerned about, and let's utilize this vehicle to help bring the necessary pressure, because there should be pressure.
We're talking about children's lives and their futures and their families.
How can there be anything more important than that, Robert?
There's absolutely no reason why the system, the city hall, MPS should be more concerned about anything else than the welfare and the health of the children that they're responsible for when they go to school.
They're just completely unfathomable in my mind that these people knowing
that this toxin lurks in the shadows of their buildings and that the children that go to these buildings are exposed to this toxin every day when they attend that school and stay in that school for hours and hours at a time with so many other children and staff and workers and not realize that the environment there
not only with their presence elevates the exposure of this toxin to the children and to their health.
It just I'm comfortable to me that there is no one at MPS that could come up with a comprehensive plan to address this in a way that
doesn't apply a band-aid approach to everything, but says we're going to just do the surgery that is needed to remove this from harming the children once and for all.
And like I said, it's been going on for 50 years.
Absolutely, Dr. Payne.
Go ahead.
Yeah, I just wanted to jump in and say a little bit more about the communication.
It has been awful.
I have gotten very little communication from contacting common council folks, the MPS board, the mayor.
It really doesn't matter who I've contacted.
There's been very little communication.
I had asked for my child to be able to do virtual learning while the remediation was
happening in their school.
And I was told that wasn't available to me.
So for two months, my child was going into this environment while remediation was taking place.
The kids were telling us remediation was taking place while they were present.
And now the state report comes out and says that the remediation practices were unsafe.
This is outrageous.
It is absolutely outrageous.
You know, Dr. Payne.
You should make sure that you and I stay in contact.
Because as certainly an outlet like Civic Media that has some cachet with all the radio stations that we have, if they ask the question, the district's got to respond.
Dr. Christian Payne herself may not be able to make it happen, but an outlet like ours
which is really concerned about what is right, what is happening in communities, can maybe get that message across in a different manner.
But for people to cower and hide, Robert and I already know that's how it works.
That's why it's called politics, because the people don't respond, you know, as long as the cameras aren't there.
right?
You can go to them and you can be a hundred percent right, but they're not going to say anything because they're protecting their hides.
We're talking about the children for heaven's sakes.
What are we talking about, man?
We're not talking about your your well, my career as an as an all the person of my career as the mayor of my career on the school.
What the hell with that?
Again, we're talking about what's the most important thing, and that's the safety of the children and the future of our city, and our country, and the state, and the country.
That's who these people are.
They're children today.
They're adults tomorrow.
If you don't have enough sense to understand the importance of that, maybe we need to make sure that you understand that.
Guys, hang on.
8-5-5-7-5-2-48-42.
Get the lead out and you on The Earl Ingram Show.
All right, welcome back to the Earl Ingram Show.
As always, you can join us at 855-752-4842.
855-752-4842.
You can text us at that same number.
Get the Let Out Coalition is in the house.
And again, we're joined by Dr. Christian Payne.
She is with Let That Man.
say man.
It's it's the cataracts, right?
I mean getting getting old is no joke man.
You know, I mean I just seemed like yesterday I could see I could actually see the stars in the sky But right now it's a struggle until I get these cataracts taken care, but anyway Paul Swartz coalition forget campaign for lead free water Robert Miranda for
flat and get the and they all get the lead out and that's the reason we're here.
You know, Paul, I was talking, we're talking Dr. Payne and Robert and the fact that elected officials in the role, they play in these things.
You know, we can't just talk about the school district.
They have culpability, no question, but they can't fix this alone.
It's bigger than them.
So how do we bring the necessary pressure?
And they need to feel it.
They need to feel that parents are not going to take it and that parents are upset that their children are exposed to lead and they don't want to hear any excuses from elected officials.
This is just my reality, Robert.
You're an elected official.
You you you decided you wanted to to to support you're a What do you call a man a public official is somebody who has dedicated their lives to doing work for the people and the community You know your your title be damn man do the work to make sure that that citizens in this city
And their families aren't impacted.
It's almost equivalent man to a nuclear bomb being dropped.
And the fallout and nobody cleans that up.
Right?
We expect government.
Who else can fix it but government?
Paul, you say what?
step up and put their heads into it and their arms around it.
It really comes down to whether they're good servant leaders and whether they listen to people in the community and then do the work by having hearings, by doing oversight, by making sure that there is accountability with those
bureaucrats in the Department of Health, in the public schools, and elsewhere, and that it's coordinated, that they pull for the resources from the state, that they look at their flexibility with funding at the local level, and that they prioritize this to meet the moment.
I think what's really, really important is that elected officials take the lead
from the affected communities and especially in this case, the parents of the school population and make sure that there is transparency of all of the information and that there is accountability that goes on, not only for the bureaucrats, but also for themselves to move forward systematically solutions to this problem.
I think what we're now in is a PR.
circle the wagon's response.
And that's understandable for institutions that are trying to protect their regimes and their jobs and the other stuff, but it's not sufficient.
It's going to require some radical surgery, as Robert said, to get this problem to the point where people have confidence that over time it's really going to be addressed.
And immediately, as Dr. Payne said, they need to respond to the threat that's going on in the classrooms now.
And I would say also not explored in the homes from things like the water exposures that are there as well.
And to take into account the science and the best practices that we know from around Wisconsin and around the country.
This isn't the first time we've been in this rodeo.
And none of this is really a surprise on one level for those of us who've been out there in the world.
But that doesn't make it any less urgent to take this on with elevating the level of priority.
You know, Robert, years ago, we saw the city circle the wagons and it wasn't acceptable.
Then it's not acceptable now.
Right.
How can it?
There's a different group in the office.
But.
They're still circling the wagons, right?
And nothing got accomplished the first time around.
Some things did, but not to the magnitude necessary, man.
The outrage that people should be feeling and mobilizing people to listen, there's no different than what we're dealing with on a national scale.
People are outraged about what's happening nationally.
But but locally, we've got a better opportunity to get something done about this.
We, uh, years ago, the, the wagons were circled, but, uh, you know, they didn't deal with Native Americans like us when we came at the circle.
And, uh, when we came in there, we came in their meetings, we disrupted their meetings.
We, we did what we had to do to get their attention.
And we saw bureaucrat after bureaucrat fall and they knew we were serious.
The problem is is that after all of that, all the promises were made to do something.
And what happened was a new crop of people came in and no one from that new crop of people took up the mantle to make sure that all the promises that were made to do something were never followed through.
Some things were, but not everything.
In this situation, you have let's say schools now who is out there fighting this fight at MPS and they have made themselves heard and known and they are people who are on the radar and they're going to eventually feel this group's presence.
This time around, I think that we learned our lesson from the first time is that there has to be follow through to make sure that they're doing what they said they're going to be doing.
And in MPS, it is proven and it is evident that what they promised 10 years ago in regards to fixing up the water situation or the lead poisoning situation at the schools.
wasn't followed through accurately because the turnover of board members and the turnover of administration allowed for these people to just toss all that to the side.
But Dr. Paine has been leading this effort.
I'd like for her to give us a little bit more about the nuances of what the organizing has been like and give us a little idea of what to expect in the coming weeks or months here.
So Dr. Payne, before you respond, I want to tell you that, you know, my plate is full, but I'm committed to joining lead safe schools.
And so as you guys organize and you're in meetings, I'll be there.
And then, you know, we there's not what's more important than our children, man.
You know, I get that, you know, as a as a father, as a parent, I get that nothing's more valuable than your children and the wealthiest nation on earth.
If they're not aware of that, we have to make sure that they understand.
that if you're an elected official and you don't understand that the children's safety is more important than Robert the next tower that they're building downtown, you
know,
skyscraper, then you shouldn't be in office.
It's that simple.
Go ahead, Dr. Payne.
Dr. Payne.
Yeah, thank you, Earl.
I really appreciate that.
We do need...
am i still here
yes
go ahead
you're fine
am i still here
yes
okay i really appreciate the support thank you so much um yeah so organize what we've been doing is trying to get out the information to parents at
in our community because the information hasn't been coming out easily or readily from any of these institutions.
So we've put together community assemblies to gather the community, offer them the information that we have, make them aware of the resources, including lead testing clinics.
and other groups that might be of resource to them.
We've also been putting together some pressure campaigns on the Common Council as well as the MPS school board who by the way has not made any public statements at all about this crisis.
We definitely are organizing to put together additional pressure on the new superintendent who has
stated publicly she is looking for quote easy wins and quote with listening sessions and we want to make it clear that we will not be fooled by simple listening sessions that we actually do need to see material change and for this issue to be addressed head on and actually fixed.
And so we've got kind of multiple avenues going here if folks are interested in organizing with us we're of course looking for additional help.
Well clearly one of the things is bringing you into the studio with someone else And maybe parents and then allowing you to have that conversation over these airways I'll extend that invitation to you immediately and however long it takes To make sure that we get that word out.
I pledge That because you know as again as somebody who's engaged and has dedicated my life over the last
30 or 40 years working with children, I don't know anything more precious than them.
Right?
I will never accept that there's anything more precious than our children, Robert.
Come on, man.
And you have to stand up for them.
You have to not only stand up for them today, but we're standing up for future generations of children.
And like I said,
We've been dealing with this now for over 50 years since these toxins have been banned from youths in buildings and homes.
And 50 years of addressing this.
And in those 50 years, we've seen the decline of our community.
We've seen the decline of educational achievement.
We've seen the rise of criminal activity.
We've seen health issues increasing and affecting the community.
It's 50 years that
These folks have been turning a blind eye to this, and the time has come for this to stop.
It can't continue.
And so with the organizing of the parents at NPS and the parents getting more in tune with the politics of what's going on and understanding the dynamics of the, not only of the politics, but the economics, I think we will be able to see a real good momentum coming out of all this and more groups joining in and building that momentum so that when the time comes, the system will realize that the community
is well informed, the community is well in tune, understands what's going on, and the time has come to make real changes.
All right, we're joined by Paul Schwartz, co-founder campaign for Lead Free Water, Dr. Christian Payne, Lead Safe Schools, MKE, Robert Miranda, Get the Lead Out, and you on the Earl Ingram Show.
To their oligrim shows always you can join us at eight five five seven five two forty eight forty two eight five five seven five two forty eight forty two I'm joined by get the lead our core listen Robert Miranda a flat Dr. Christian pain lead safe schools MKE Paul Swartz co-founder campaign for lead free water, you know This just irks me to no end man, you know when you've been around as long as we have Robert
You don't have a lot of patience for cowards and and that's what it is man.
It's cowardly You know, I watch I watch the all the people on television and they speak up about tires, right?
You know, hey listen man.
I don't want to see ties in my community Well, let's garbage on the street.
Hey, I don't want to see garbage in the street But I have yet to hear them say
Come on, man.
Come on, man.
Just totally unacceptable, man.
And you got to light a fire.
Hey, Robert, you and I know how to light a fire, right?
a
fire.
Hey, it's not about being popular.
That's
was happening in a suburb, they would not
Oh, there's no way they would tolerate it.
No way.
So why don't you be tolerated here?
Go ahead, Rob.
Because they think they can get over on people.
They think they can just take people's attention and put it over there to, hey, we got to pick up garbage.
Come on down.
This ring time is here.
Let's fly, la, la, la.
We did talk a little bit about funding, but there are some monies that I think Dr. Payne can give us a little bit of the information regarding Governor Evers' $300 million lead plan.
Can you give us some information on that, Dr. Payne?
Yeah, Governor Evers has proposed 300 million in the state budget for lead removal in schools across the state.
That's not near enough.
And we can do something about this, right?
We can call his office, we can call our state reps demanding that part of the budget be passed or increased.
Our group also has
more local actions as well.
So again, the MPS School Board, we've got information on our website about that, contacting them to get a special session on lead, the common counsel we have an action on our website as well.
Later today, we'll put the state reps as well as a script for contacting them about the budget.
So we've got actions already up on our website and people can get involved today right now, asking for demanding
change that we need to
see.
Hey, Robert, make sure that Dr. Payne gets my information.
Paul, you say what to all this?
just, you know, I don't know how you can look at children, right?
And, and not understand the value of what you're looking at, right?
Well, you know, it's just some child who, you know, lives in the inner city of US, just some child who goes to MPS.
You know, there are people who look at it from that perspective.
But man, there's another group of people like the ones that are gathered here and others in your group, Dr. Payne, who see it for what it is and what it and what, you know, and what's important.
And so those people gather together.
And like I said,
You know, I want to make sure that I'm in the group.
I can make some noise.
Man, I can make some noise.
I love making some noise.
If it's the truth, why would we not?
You know, I'm standing for the truth.
I'm going to die on the truth.
OK, if what you guys are saying is not the truth, I don't want any parts of it.
But if it's the truth, man, why wouldn't you stand up and holler, you know, from the highest?
Hey, Robert, the highest guy scraper
that we
have.
Yes.
Yes.
Totally agree.
I think people need to realize their own power.
I think we're so accustomed to thinking other people are going to deal with it for us or handle it for us.
And right now, our institutions have lost all credibility here.
And we need to be the ones demanding.
You know, it can't be my children are grown.
That can't be the answer.
Well, it's not
my children.
That's correct.
If it affects one, it affects all.
Thank you guys as always.
I'll see you in a week.
Dr. Pan, I hope to talk to you soon as soon as later on the day.
But thank you guys.
Up next, Dr. Robert Craig, Executive Director of Citizen Action, and you see you guys later.