Black History with Professor Bob Harvey- “The true story untold!” (Hour 2)

And there's no heaven Sees if you try No hell below us Above us only sky

as always you can join us at 855-752-4842 855-752-4842 and boy if you don't know it you're in for a treat on the line my good friend and professor of let me let me let me do this professor Harvey because I'll always forget that you are without question a top tier

historian and and you and so he African history, American history.

What are some of the other disciplines?

Professor Harvey that you are trained in?

Well, basically it's American history and African American history.

Those are the two major areas of historiography that I've been trained in and I've talked for years.

So.

Those are the two major areas.

I've spent a lot of time studying military history, especially focusing on World War II, from World War II up to the present, and political history.

I've spent a lot of time studying and teaching constitutional history, so those are the areas.

The different universities you've taught in.

Well, I started off teaching at North Carolina Central University of Historical Black College in Durham.

That's where that's my alma mater.

Well, I got both my bachelor's and master's degree in American historiography from North Carolina Central.

And I taught there for seven, for eight years, actually seven years.

And then I left there and got invited to go up to UW La Crosse and teach in the Minority Studies Institute.

for two years.

And then I left there and engaged in the graduate post-graduate program at the University of Wisconsin at Madison.

And I spent it there for two years focusing on American history.

And then I got moved to Milwaukee, Wisconsin, where I joined the Army of Reserves.

And I was there for 12 years.

But I also taught at UW-Milwaukee Department of Apropology as a part of time for four years.

And then I got accepted to teach at Milwaukee Area Technical College in the history department.

And I taught there for nine years full time.

And that's where I retired in 2013.

So professor Harvey needless to say you know your way around the history book Let me because it's black history month in this country and I have over the decade over the years had you Talked to the audiences that I've been fortunate to have been in front of over these airwaves, you know, I just You know kind of have professor Harvey professor Harvey want to

kind of focus today on the truth of blacks arriving in this nation.

And so America's history of slavery began long before Jamestown.

The arrival of the first captives to the Jamestown colony in 1619 is often seen as the beginning of slavery in America.

But enslaved Africans arrived in North America as early as the 1500s professor Harvey.

How can people get it so wrong?

Well, it's not so much so wrong as it is the sense of history that's been created around Anglican history that is English history And you know the perception that we have in this country not that it's a fact but the perception that we have in this country

is that it all started with, you know, the English colonies.

But you got to realize that in what is present day the United States of America, we're talking there about geographic United States of America, the first European country to settle in North America, what is present in the United States was not England, it was Spain.

And we must also realize that when you read the historical works of someone like Laurent Bennett, who wrote before the Mayflower, what he was saying in the title of his book is that long before the Mayflower, long before 1619 to 1620, 1622, long before that, in the latter part of the 16th century, or the middle part of the 16th century,

Europeans brought slaves over under control of the Spanish.

You see, the Spanish were the first ones to settle in North America.

The English and the French and the Dutch and other European ethnic groups and nationality, they come later.

But it's the Portuguese and the latter part of the 15th century, which are the 1400s.

and Spanish.

They are the ones who bring slaves over first.

And with the help of the conquistadors, and with the help of the Catholic Church, in the late 15th century, which are the 1400s, and in the middle part of the 16th century, which are the 1500s, they started establishing colonies over here, and it's the Spanish.

that settled in North America first in the southern part exploring as far west as what is present day Arizona.

So, but see because our history is largely Anglican orientated, we leave that part out.

And we are missing a major part of history when we do that.

because the whole issue of claiming your European heritage, if you have African blood in you, and it states pretty much all the laws that are accepted even today, is that if you have any African blood in you at all, and it can be traced, you can't claim your European heritage.

That did not come from the English, or the Irish, or the Scots.

or the Germans or the French that or the Dutch that came from the Spanish culture That's where you get the word mulatto And all these other concepts of toro and all these other color stratifications That started with the Spanish and with the Portuguese and remember something and this is something that a lot of people forget

Even George Bush had to be reminded of when he was president and Condoleezza, right?

Fortunately was in the room and had to correct it that the largest concentration of black folk in the Western Hemisphere the largest concentration is in Brazil not in the United States The United States has about 40 million that includes Africans people from directed from the continent

and the African Americans, the people who were descendants of slaves over the last three to 400 years.

But the largest population of black folks are in Brazil of Afrocentric origin.

So that is a part of history that oftentimes overlooked and lost.

And unless you actually take African American history, you miss that point.

And that's one of the reasons why my years of teaching African-American history, the wide-eyed enthusiasm of students of all colors and all races is excited 10-4 when they learn that fact.

So Professor Harvey, why is that that relevant?

It's relevant because it says that in building the North,

the northern and the southern parts of the Western Hemisphere, which is North America and South America.

African people played a significant role in helping to colonize and develop these regions.

Long before we came over as an indigenous service, remember,

some of the first Afrocentric people to arrive in the English colonies, they were listed as indenture servants.

It's only after 1660 that we begin to see the separation of white indenture servants, you know, along with, you know, black indenture servants, you see that separation.

and black start becoming slaves for life.

So Professor Harvey, what's the difference between an indentured servant and a slave?

A indentured servant for those who had contracts, you know, to serve for a period of up to seven years, sometimes it was a little longer, but the average time period was seven years.

And then after that seven years,

this

would work, you know, as property, but then they would get their freedom.

And what you started seeing in the colonies was that they created a problem because sometimes when you had a rebellion, you had both blacks and whites that did the service of bailing together.

But by 1660, it was discovered that it would be better to just go with the Africans to make them slaves for life, Durante Vita, slaves for life for the duration.

And one of the reasons why.

is because the African indentured servant did not have a nation to protect

them.

So, Professor Harvey, I got to get you to hang on, man, you know, the depth of your knowledge and the way you explained it is so easy for us to understand, because I got a million, I phone lines open at 855-752-4842.

Look, on the line, just one of the, you know,

top historians that I've ever met in my lifetime.

My good friend, Professor Bob Harvey, and you, 8-5-5-7-5-2-48-42, we're going to drill down deeper on The Earl England Show.

All right, welcome back to The Earl Ingram Show.

As always, you can join us at 855-752-4842.

855-752-4842, Texas.

At that same number, my guest is the brilliant Professor Bob Harvey all the way from Sunday, Charlotte, North Carolina.

You know, Professor Harvey, I remember distinctly hearing Dr. King.

talking about the fact that we were here long before Europeans set foot on this land.

We were here.

But I was never able to make the connection how and why and how we got here.

But clearly I

remember one thing now.

The important thing to remember is that the Portuguese and the Spanish.

are European.

You know, and that's the thing that people have to realize, you know, that they were the European countries, the fact that we're the oldest Catholic nations.

Remember that between the period of the 1100s up through about 1300s, Spain and Portugal

were formed as nations, nation states.

And the main institution that helped them become nations were the Catholic Church.

Remember the Catholic Church was born out of the death and destruction of the Roman Empire.

So the Catholic Church helped to set the table.

for the institution of slavery and it was not just you know African slaves Europe like I said Europeans were slaves, too But certainly by the by the third by the 14th century 15th century to be honest with you And for which is a 1400 Spain and Portugal in the up well in the Iberian Peninsula.

That's where they're located

They had established a nation-state and they began to explore.

And they explored.

Like America of Espusy, Christopher Columbus, and so many others along with conquistadors, began to explore the new world.

And they came into contact with North and South America.

And that's why today of the 13 countries that are in South America, 12 of them are Spanish and the other is Portuguese.

The largest country in South America is Brazil.

Brazil is a Portuguese colony.

That's why you have the largest concentration of African people.

So were they enslaved in Brazil?

Some of them were, but you got to remember there's a very fascinating history and I always taught it in my African American and my American history classes.

You know, especially the period prior to the 20th century.

The amazing thing about the Spanish and the Portuguese.

was that they both, you know, had slavery, but they also had Black populations that were conquistadors, they were Catholics, and some of them were freemen.

Remember that the Spanish and the Portuguese, when they got over here, the Native Americans were already here on those islands, out in the Atlantic, and in the Caribbean area.

And they, the Native American populations were also, you know, on the main continent.

The Aztecs and the Mayans, remember they battled, especially the Aztecs, battled the Spanish, under Cortez and others, you know, for nearly 50 to 60 years before they were finally wiped out.

But a lot of those peoples,

that lived in those islands in the Caribbean.

They died off.

And once they died off, the Spanish brought in African slaves to work on those sugar plantations, the coffee plantations, or whatever.

And the native population pretty much died out because they were trapped in those islands.

The European explorers.

starting with the Spanish and the Portuguese, decimated those populations of original people, indigenous people in South America, and had ran some of the similar problems in North America.

But one of the amazing things that I learned about the African presence in the southern part of the United States, which is now the modern day state of Florida,

was when I studied Herbert Aftek as American Negro slavery votes Back in the 1960s as a junior at North Carolina Central and studying history and reading that book and to my amazement in 1526 and what is now the northern part of Florida, but it also the southern part of

of Georgia and South Carolina, there were blacks in those regions that got within Indian populations and rebelled against the Spanish.

So blacks as slaves or as indentured servants or just as free men and as explorers, all of them, those people are part of American history.

And I'm talking, when I say American history,

Remember one thing, and I always talk this from this perspective.

Everyone who lives in the Western Hemisphere is an American.

It's only the arrogance of the people in the United States that we call ourselves the Americans.

Now we are Americans.

If you live in Argentina, Paraguay, Peru.

It was called the Americas, the Americas.

Yes, we are Americans, all of us are.

But like I said our arrogance would you be sure me an arrogant person?

I'll show you an ignorant one every time Show me an arrogant person and I'll show you an ignorant one every

time professor I hate to have to take a you know a hiatus with you because there's so much to learn 8 5 5 7 5 2 48 42 the one and only professor Bob Harvey is great style aways once again

You can join us 855-752-4842.

If you have any questions or comments, now's the time on The Arling Room Show.

to the Earl Ingram Show.

As always, you can join us at 855-752-4842.

855-752-4842.

The one and only Professor Bob Harvey all the way from sunny South Carolina.

Charlotte, North Carolina is on the line.

And you know, Professor Harvey, I would have loved to have been in your class.

I think one of the things that people need to understand is you taught a lot of white students as well.

Is it safe to say that?

Oh, yeah, all types of students.

I mean, in the cross, it was amazing because I left North Carolina Central in 1978.

And I was invited to come up to the visiting lecturer UW.

The cross is teaching the Minority Studies Institute.

And in Carolina Central, I went from teaching 99% black students in my classrooms to teaching, if you want to lacrosse, and teaching 99% white students.

And in both cases, the classrooms were packed.

You know, because the thing is, history has to be taught in such a way that it's relevant to the past, but it also has to be relevant to the present.

History has to have to live in the minds of the students.

And they have to see themselves in the history book.

It's not just enough to talk about the history events and individuals in the past.

Because once you look at a book, it's already the past.

That's why it's a

book.

Right.

So I always taught my students that history has to come alive.

They have to be a part of it.

They have to see themselves on that slave ship.

They have to see themselves as colonists that came here for the first time.

And they have to also learn that the original, many of the original ancestors that came from Europe to the New World were fleeing and running away from something.

Many of the religious folk had to flee their country.

because especially if they were Protestant, because a lot of it, except for England, a lot of Western Europe was under the domination of the Catholic Church.

And if you were not a Catholic, then you were listed as a heretic.

So many of those individuals that were influenced by people like John Calvin and Martin Luther and others had to flee to come to the New World to have religious freedom.

religious freedom is one of the first items built into the first amendment to the Constitution, freedom of religion.

It came from that concept that these people were listed as heretics and everything else and had to flee Europe to come into for a new world.

And they got here and they found a Native American population where they couldn't bother them too much.

But they also realized that if they brought slaves, then they could have them to work for nothing or to work for at least for their freedom.

And that's what indenture server two came in.

A lot of the Europeans came over as indenture server.

So Professor Hart,

we've got a text message and then we're going to go through the phone lines.

Catholic Church, this is Courtney Martin.

Catholic Church has a long history of opposing slavery, with condemnations dating back centuries before the modern abolition movement.

Anti-Catholic bigots have tried this canard for centuries.

But the Catholic Church, both the Portuguese and the Spanish were dominated by the Catholic Church.

like down to the six and others who pretty much went ahead and sanctioned the institution of slavery.

Those remember, many of those, those Spanish explorership that came over to settle in the new world came with an army.

Those were the conquistadors and they came with post, with religious individuals whose main job it was to convert

The so-called heathers they figured that these people were heathers.

They were not Christians.

They had to be converted.

That's why you find all those those churches being built on in these missions and They got over here and realized that not only were the people dying off the cost of forced labor But they were down up because they were exposed to European diseases They just wiped them out remember in this in the 14th and

13th, 14th, and 15th centuries, Europe, from the Mediterranean region all the way up to the lands of Denmark, Belgium, and also the Dutch.

They were heavily impacted.

They caused England as well as an island.

They were heavily inundated with plague.

The Black Plague wiped out almost a third of the European population during that time in the 13th, 14th, and 15th centuries.

So those people had adjusted to it biologically.

By the time they got to the new world, they were bringing a lot of diseases with them, also measles and other diseases.

So Professor Harvey,

I'm sorry, go ahead.

They largely decimated.

the Native American populations.

Think about it biologically.

These people were surrounded by two major oceans, the Atlantic and the Pacific.

There were people who lived in these regions and they didn't have a lot of the diseases that they had in Europe and for that matter in Africa because the Africans also brought some diseases over here.

So

Professor Avi, we got a lot of phone calls, people who want to have a conversation with you.

Can we take a few calls?

Yes, go ahead.

All

right, let's go to Vincent.

Good morning to you, Vincent.

How you doing, sir?

Doing well, doing well.

Hey, man, it's good to hear your voice, man.

Been a while, been a

while.

Yeah, you got to stop changing your phone number, man.

No, man.

Hey, man, we've been here a while.

You've heard the great Professor Harvey in the past.

Yes, I have.

Yes, I have for years.

And he is a treasure, a treasure to our community.

The fact is, I was going to say that even after Black History Month, he needs to be a staple.

Yeah, I will bring him back.

I will definitely bring Professor Harvey back.

No question.

Go ahead.

Because the fact is, with this new administration, African-American history is under assault.

The fact is when you talk about the Google talking about they're not going to celebrate African American history and other platforms like that.

The fact is that companies are slowly, slowly but surely getting rid of the programs and programs that really helped African Americans in this country and the history being torn apart as far as black folks in this country.

He's a treasure at this point.

Yeah, he is.

So my point is to Professor Harvey, how important is it for us to fight back not only for Black History Month, but throughout the year to try to keep this history going, because the fact is, it's definitely under assault.

That's my question.

Hey, Vincent, thank you very much for the comment, and call a little more.

You got to listen to more, but thank you.

Professor Harvey?

Professor Harvey?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Keep in mind one thing.

And I, and I, you know, the burn and I, we've been monitoring, you know, a lot of these situations that have come out now, she stayed for active involvement and I do these days.

But remember one thing, you know, African American history is not going anywhere.

They can do all of the destruction of work programs and, and the D I programs, all they want.

It is not going into what a history is there.

And not only that, but there are many students, the most exciting students that I talk with white students.

They were learning this history for the first time.

So the only thing necessary for you to try out is for good men to do nothing.

And there are enough decent people out there.

who are going to want to know the true history.

I don't know the programs like the special program right now that's dealing with the 1619 project.

I think it's a laudable project.

But when you go back inside digging in the history, you find out that long before the Mayflower, Laurent Bennett got it right, long before the Mayflower, blacks were already here.

And if you study that carefully,

It's going to take you back even further, because then you started getting into Egyptology.

I saw an interesting program the other night on television, and they were talking about the early man.

And this one scholar, one white scholar from South Africa was saying that the original Egyptians were descendants of the Nubian people that were in the southern and northern part of the Sudan.

and living in parts that some of them were living in the southern parts of Egypt.

The ones you see on television right now talking about the pyramids, they're not the original Egyptians, the ones who built the pyramids.

And he said, one of the giveaway was studying the mummy and finding the high concentration in content of Melanie.

Melanin, the more melanin you have in your body, the darker your skin color is.

So he said that that in itself was a giveaway and even that form of history has been robbed because Egypt, and all my users studying history, Egypt is the only civilization that you know of consistently where their history has been robbed and they try to take Egypt out of Africa.

Because they don't want you to know that the most storied civilization in world history is in African civilization.

It's Egypt.

And some scholars, some black scholars have said that Egypt is the daughter of Ethiopia.

And if you talk to a lot of Ethiopians and friends that I've had that are Ethiopians, they will tell you the magnificent history that influence that Ethiopia had

So

Professor

Harvey,

I'm going to take Vincent up on what he said and certainly bring you back many more times as we used to.

Let's go to Tom from LA.

Hey, Tom, go ahead.

Good morning.

I agree with Vincent.

The words that come to my mind are American treasure.

And that's what Dr. Harvey is.

Professor Harvey is every time he's on your show.

What I'd like to do also is recommend the civic media to actually have it where Professor Harvey teaches a class on civic media on the weekend or something about this stuff.

That's not a bad idea, Tom.

We can talk to Professor Harvey.

Professor Harvey, as you stated and as Vincent stated, is a treasure.

and Professor Harvey's recall in history, is he doesn't even have to give it a thought.

It's in his spirit, it's in the essence of who he is.

And he is exactly, it's a great idea Tom, we'll certainly explore it.

Guys hang on the phone lines, Professor Harvey, man, you know.

You know, I deserve a beating for it being so long before I got you back on 855-752-4842.

The one and only Professor Bob Harvey has graced the airlines with us once again on the Earl Ingram

show.

No, no, baby, same livin' No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

Welcome back to what I can't believe is the last few minutes of the Erling room show as always you can join us at 855-752-4842 855-752-4842.

I just want to say to you In the listening audience That that professor Harvey is not just This eloquent and thorough on black history American history military history

all of it.

His recall is unmatched.

And so, yeah, I think it's a great idea that we do what we can to get his voice throughout civic media.

We'll have a conversation.

Hey, Brendon, what's going on?

You have a question to come in for Professor Harvey.

No,

I just wanted to say what a fresh breeze it is to hear a man speak so eloquently and so knowledgeably about the history of our country, be it black, white or otherwise.

And that was it.

I learned a lot.

And it's good to turn on the program and learn and be able to open your ears and listen and hear

the truth.

Hey, hey Brendan, thank you very much for the call.

You know professor Harvey You have you and I have done this for many many years and I Always when you're on I'm amazed at the depth of your knowledge and your recall You know you challenge You know and and you and you challenge those other historians professor Harvey

Who sometimes maybe they just omit things intentionally or is it that they don't know?

Well, I think it's you know history is a broad field and covers many many different facets and You show me two historians in the same room.

They both go look at it from a different perspective There's just so many different ways to see it.

You know, I always taught, you know history that was inclusive and that's sort of amazing when you look at that DEI

crap that they put out there to divide folks.

The history has to be inclusive.

And you have to let people understand what's going on.

Because I guarantee you, if you take a person that was a Trumpster from Arkansas, and you get one from New York, they seem going to see some things differently.

Because if that many of those others are still fighting the Civil War.

And as far as Africa is concerned, the Yankees be damned forever.

So if you were from the north, you were damned Yankee.

And they're going to see history a certain way.

I mean, I'm a southerner too.

But I see history differently than maybe a white person would, because I saw the Civil War as a chance to enslave African-Americans, whereas he saw it as a way to preserve his culture.

And what we're finding out is that there are ways that people can preserve their culture, but that culture can only be preserved when it's based on honesty and accuracy of what the facts are and to deal with it from there.

And if you don't, then you're going to be missing an important part of history.

You can't be afraid to learn new things and to learn it from people that are different.

So all of these.

anti-woke and anti, you know, the DEI movements that were put out there to plant the seed to get a couple of million people to vote for Donald Trump, they're going to fail because the world knows now.

And thank God for all those black and white scholars, you know, electrocology, Woodson's in the John Hope Franklin's, but also to C. Van Woodward and Woodward's and others.

white historians who taught us another way of looking at American history and to see at Herbert Assecker as well taught us how to see American history through a different lens so that they could just make us a better people.

You know history is the excellent teaching tool if we allow it to be taught to be inclusive.

You can't exclude people or demean people and try to add them to history.

Because remember that when we start talking about slavery, the perception that we have in the United States is that if you're going to have a final blame game, we blame the English.

But in fact, it was not the English that started it.

This was something that was started by the Spanish and the French.

I mean, the Spanish and the Portuguese.

And the church had a major role to play in it.

Yes, the Catholic Church, once it woke up to it.

By the end of the 60th to 17th century, the Spanish were pretty much moved out of the game.

Then they stepped in and stopped it.

Remember Queen Elizabeth, when she was Queen of England in the latter part of the 16th century, Queen Elizabeth, at first, was opposed to it.

But once her sea dogs got out there with Walter Rolland and the rest of them, and started raiding at Francis Drake, and they started raiding those Spanish ships.

They can come back to the New World, to

an old

world, laid with gold, partly from the slaves, from slavery and from the slave trade.

They changed

it.

Hey, Professor Harvey, you know, we gotta leave it there, but I gotta, I gotta read this message to you.

I've always loved him on your show for the past 10 years, but I have to tell you today just made me realize that he needs to have his own show and teach us all history.

Unbelievable, Professor Harvey.

You don't, you know, you don't have to hang up your history books.

Maybe we can open up a window for you through the airwaves to continue to teach.

You know, it's what you are born to do.

And we're gonna look into all those things.

Professor Harvey, thank you very much.

I will talk to you later on today.

All right, thank you.

Thank everybody who made the show go.

Uh, man, we couldn't do it without you guys.

Uh, thank you.

Cardi up next.

Uh, Greg Bach and Jane Madden there, Madden there on air.

See you guys on tomorrow.