A film premiere and the race for DPW Party Chair (Hour 1)

Greetings and welcome to the Civic Media Radio Hours here at the four o'clock time slot here in the afternoon.

I'm your host this afternoon here.

My name is Dan Schaefer.

Thank you all so much for joining us.

If you're unfamiliar with me or my work, I am the political editor here at Civic Media.

I am also the founder of the Reconbobulation Area.

Yes.

Not the official Recombobulation Area at the airport, but I've named my news and politics newsletter after the famous pro-security location at the airport because we have such a discombobulating politics here in the state of Wisconsin.

We all need a place to piece everything back together, a place to Recombobulate.

So that's what we're going to be doing with you here on the Civic Media.

Radio hours, and we're just gonna get right to it here because we have some guests joining us in studio first I want to introduce my co-host for the afternoon miss Angela Lang the executive director of black leaders organizing for communities Thank you.

Thank you so much for being here Angela.

Of course always a

good

time hanging out with you

Always a good time.

And today we also, uh, before we get to our guests here, I want to let you know that we have a new weekday lineup coming up for the Wisconsin news talk radio stations network, including a fresh three hour morning show mornings with Pat Crite low and the Maggie Dawn show is moving.

to the evening drive time slot.

Yes, that's this very time slot right here from four to six PM.

So when you tune in on Wednesday, you will be hearing Maggie Dawn.

and the Maggie Dawn show in this time slot.

But first we have some special guests with us in studio today.

The Milwaukee Film Festival begins on April 24th and runs to May 8th.

Civic Media is an official media partner of the event and the Recon Bibulation Area is a community partner.

on two documentaries, separated and death and taxes.

But today we are here to talk about another documentary, one that is a bit closer to home.

The film is called Cycle.

It is more than five years in the making.

And it is making its world premiere at the Milwaukee Film Festival on Sunday, May 4th with additional screenings.

On the 6th and 7th, the documentary tells the urgent and symbolic story of Tyrese West, an 18-year-old black teenager from Racine, Wisconsin, whose life was cut short by a police officer in 2019.

The co-directors of the film

are here with us in studio at Radio Park in Racine today.

So welcome to Racine Natives, Laura Diane Kezman and William Howell.

Thank you so much for being here.

Thank you for having

us.

First, I got a chance to watch some of the film.

I didn't get a chance to watch all of it just yet, but it is remarkably powerful.

And there is just so much to talk about with this film.

So first, maybe we could start by just giving our listeners a little bit of a backstory here.

How did you start working on this film?

When did you start working on this film?

And how did it all come together?

What's the story of how this got made?

Well, when...

Well, it was the 2019 June 15th and 2019 when Tyrese West lost his life.

The shocking thing for me is when I seen his picture come down my timeline, he looked exactly like his father.

Me and

his father were best friends when we were in middle school.

And so for me, it just kind of like really struck a chord in my heart.

And growing up with Monique West as well.

Like, you know, in Racing Week, like I said, this small town, we have, like, just a real tight-knit community.

So I really felt the responsibility to speak, to use my voice, you know, that I had.

And for me, I was just starting to film things.

Like, I mean, I wasn't a filmmaker, but I just picked up a camera and I started to film, like, just whatever was happening.

And so for me, it was just kind of a natural process to film it.

But, um...

As it started to kind of erupt on my timeline, I didn't know what to do.

So I just started to like reach out to certain people and I prayed a lot that I would just kind of like meet somebody who could teach me about film or documentary work.

And I was working with Jesse Booker at the time.

We had a website called rapscene.com for all the rappers and racing.

And out the blue, he reaches out to me and he's like, dude, you need to call this.

called my friend.

She has another friend that works at the radio station.

She's a filmmaker.

And I'm just like, what's the odds of this?

Right?

So I reached out to her friend, Amanda.

And then Amanda told me like, yeah, my friend, she's a real dope filmmaker.

She's in radio.

Like maybe that could even help a lot right now.

And so she sent me a link.

She said, watch her documentary.

And I watched the documentary.

It's called Invisible Lines.

And when I tell you I was blown away.

And, you know, it's just one of those moments where you feel God speaking to you, like he's just leading you all the way there.

And so it was just natural for me to reach out to her and just see if I could get her to get on board.

That's remarkable.

That's a great story.

And now here you are with just, you know, what, less than two weeks away from the premiere.

You know, walk me through the journey that brought you to the point where you've

You know made this film and now you're ready to show it to the world

Well, I think the journey is a little bit hard to synopsize because it's been such a Story journey getting it to this point But you know the starting point was really will and I meeting for that first time at a coffee shop in 2019 in the fall shortly after District Attorney Patricia Hansen decided to not file charges against the officer And so this this happened

Just a couple months after that where Will and I had a three-hour conversation and we emerged as co-directors on this project and You know keep in mind this was the end of 2019.

This was before COVID.

You know this before times.

Yeah, the before the before time, you know before You know the world was a captive audience to witnessing You know the uprising of the summer of 2020 unfold in the way that it did, you know, and that was a huge

a huge thing that shaped the direction of the narrative, but we couldn't have anticipated the direction that it would go ultimately in what would bring us here today.

Yeah, I had a chance to watch the film this afternoon and everyone that's listening needs to see it and then like bring a friend and also see it and I think this is a story that's important And it's also heartbreaking like it was one of those those movies you sit down and it's over and the credits are rolling and you're kind of just sitting there and You know you're processing and I'm a crier so I was just like crying and I think what was very

unique about this that I think is different from other stories that are similar is the backdrop of Juneteenth and understanding and there was even talks and mentions of kind of the evolution of law enforcement from slave patrols and to know that this happened on Juneteenth and the film being called Cycle, right?

So I wanted to just like make space to kind of talk about how that extra element

And how that tied into history kind of adds to that like psychological pain that I think folks were talking about in the film as well.

For me, I think it's even a tad bit deeper because Juneteenth Day becomes so synonymous with everything we are when you live in racing.

It's like it was the first day that was just like that you didn't anticipate like the 4th of July or Christmas or something like that.

And it was just like it was just sprung on you and you didn't expect it.

And it was just like it left memories in your mind that you made sure that it's the reason why we go to Juneteenth Day every

year.

That's like that first time just like blows you away.

And so, yeah, for us to experience something so tragic on a day that's so special, that did leave like this stain on us, it makes the movie, it makes it just that much more powerful.

It made the moment that much more

powerful

and that's why it spoke to me so deeply as well.

And I think that it is a deep connection for a more universal message with people in other cities worldwide because the day is so significant for us.

We're here in studio talking with the filmmakers behind the documentary cycle which has its world premiere at the Milwaukee Film Festival coming up on Sunday May 4th now, you know, you mentioned kind of in the the synopsis of this film that you know the police shooting of Tyrese

West made news here in southeastern Wisconsin, but did not really become a viral story nationally the way so many of these other cases did around that time.

So given the fact that the national spotlight wasn't necessarily on this case, as you investigated it for the documentary, what were some of the more surprising elements that you encountered

here?

You know, we went into this film knowing that, yes, this is about the story of Tyrese West, but in so many ways, it's so much more than that.

And I think really a huge takeaway for us was uncovering that Tyrese really represents all of the names that we don't know, all of the names that don't become hashtags and don't go viral because of the exception of having...

witnesses or video or audio evidence.

None of that existed with Tyrese.

And as we investigated his case specifically, what we end up unraveling is how the larger systemic issue is constructed and intertwined and how accountability really is not even baked into the system in the first place.

And so Tyrese's story really helps us unravel that and get a very

clear understanding of you know what the likelihood is from the outset like from the second that something like this happens and how the scene is processed and and who is leading the investigation and what communication channels travel from the crime scene to the media and the general public what that pipeline is um that is something that I think is critical to understand how we how we

got here in the first place.

And Andrea, you mentioned going back decades and centuries of understanding how far back the cycle goes.

That's very much part of the intention is to help people draw the historical parallels between one isolated incident in Racine that is an example of how easy it is for these cases to be very quietly swept under the rug when

the authorities have full narrative control, and then the legacy of what has been happening for centuries.

It's a powerful story, and I encourage people to go check it out at the Milwaukee Film Festival.

The film is Cycle.

We're here with the filmmakers behind that documentary here.

We're gonna be going to break just for a minute, but we will be back with more discussion about this film after that break.

So join the conversation with us, follow us on Twitter, find us on YouTube, all the socials, do all the things, and we'll continue this conversation, and we will be right back.

Stick with us.

the Civic Media Radio Hours.

My name is Dan Schaefer.

I'm your guest host this afternoon.

Thank you so much for joining us.

We are joined in studio by the filmmakers behind the documentary Cycle, which premieres on Sunday, May 4th at the Milwaukee Film Festival.

We're here with Racine Natives, Laura Diane Kezman and William Howell, the co-directors of this film.

So first, just give us...

listeners a quick, you know, kind of zoom out synopsis of what this case exactly was before we, you know, talk further a little bit about the film here.

Well, the case of Tyrese West was you have this 18 year old kid who was shot and killed basically for not having a light on his bike.

And what it was like 96 days after 96 days of unrest in the city.

And ultimately, they chose not to charge the officer.

And that's why we're here today.

You know, we were just talking during the break about how I just only saw this film just a few hours ago.

And so I'm still processing.

And I feel very lucky to be able to process with the co-directors of the film.

And so I'm from Milwaukee, right?

So I'm driving here.

And, you know, there's a...

part in the film where I believe it was Corey Prince had mentioned how he, and there's this picture with him and the governor, and how he does tremendous amazing work, but at the end of the day, as a black person, your heart still sinks when you see a cop car.

And even myself driving here, I saw Caledonia police just sitting there, and I had that same feeling.

It's just almost like an instinctual thing that I think a lot of black folks have, just this inherent trauma.

And I do a lot of stuff all the time, right?

And I empathize with Corey of saying, you can do tremendous work.

You can do...

you can use your voice in your platform in a really responsible way, but also at the same time, that will not protect you.

That will not shield you at the end of the day.

And, you know, thinking about, you know, just the title, like, cycle, right?

And I know this is going to be a very big question, but in your opinion, as we kind of talked before the break about how history, there's kind of this through line of, you know, slave patrols, the evolution to sheriffs and police, how do we break the cycle?

For me, I'm just trying to create understanding.

I think understanding is the key because if we understand each other more, then we're less likely to react certain ways in certain situations.

My grandfather raised me in a house with white women and all kind of different colored people because he wanted me to have different perspectives on life and in a comfort in knowing how different you are and that it's okay to be different.

and it's okay to accept people and they differences.

And for me, I think a lot of times, whether it's Tyrese West or Eric Geese, you know, sometimes we're just not familiar enough with each other or with those communities or how each other, you know, culturally, how we might react in certain situations.

And so I think that this film starts to open doors and conversations for all of those things because

At the end of the day, I think understanding is definitely what we need.

I didn't understand.

I was just angry at the beginning.

And that's why I didn't want to be the one to make the film.

And I really wanted to start somebody out because it would have been an angry film.

I was angry.

And so at this point, we have a true piece of work that truly breaks down the entire cycle instead of just being caught in...

a small town, small moment of just pure anger and rage.

And we have something that is truly remarkable.

Yeah, because you talked about in the documentary, you were doing videos like every day on your own social media accounts to talk about what was happening.

Right.

But to have this, you know, almost six years later now, right, to really zoom out, does it give you a different understanding?

Does it give you a different perspective?

I mean, definitely.

Definitely.

And I mean, even in the film, you'll see that you'll get a chance to hear my voice in 2019 and then you'll hear me in 2025 and you'll be able to see the difference for yourself.

I think until you experience something like this, like you just never know what what God is preparing you for or to bring you through.

And so this this moment, it kind of just capitalizes on all those things, you know.

And yeah, it's just it's an unbelievable moment.

I could have never

Imagine being here right now, you know, all those years ago.

What's the one thing you want folks to take away from the film?

Well, I guess going off of that is, you know, the understanding that we're trying to elicit and pose the cycle being broken as almost like a personal choice that you have to make in your own mind.

And that was not obvious when we started this, going back to the journey and going back to the emotion that really drove the beginning of this and everything that we learned along the way.

I think things did not go as expected.

It's like, did we want hard-lined accountability in the form of there being some type of...

at the very least get the sky fired, right?

But when you realize that, and Will says it really poignantly at the very end of the film, but essentially you take what they give you and anything beyond that, you have to reconcile within your own heart and your own self of how to move forward.

And I think for me, my goal was to really help elicit a genuine understanding between

you know, among all sides, in order to, you know, again, like break the cycle in our own minds first.

Yeah, I think, you know, the under the goal of it being understanding

is

something it's more than a personnel change, or even a policy change or something like that.

It's a mindset change.

It's a cultural change when you

when you have that goal of understanding.

So I think, you know, as I've been watching the film as Angela talked about watching the film, there's so much to it.

And I really

think

it's a really, really terrific piece of work.

And I really encourage people to go check it out at the film festival and to, you know, seek out that understanding that is the goal of this film and not necessarily to, you know, get riled up and get polarized and post the hashtags, but look for understanding.

And I appreciate.

that as a core element of what you're doing here with this documentary.

Well, thank

you so

much for being here.

Again, the film is called Cycle.

It premieres at the Milwaukee Film Festival on Sunday, May 4th.

Lauren, William, thank you so much for being here.

Thank you for having us.

All right, we will be right back.

And after the break, we will be joined by Joseph Hecke, who is running for chair of the Democratic Party of Wisconsin.

Stick with us here on Civic Media.

Welcome back to the Civic Media Radio Hours.

I'm your guest host this afternoon.

My name is Dan Schaefer.

I am joined by my co-host today, Angela Lang, the executive director of Black Leaders Organizing for Communities.

And because I'm guest hosting today, you're just going to get a lot of 90s alternative rock.

I'm here for it.

I love it.

I love it.

That's what we're here for.

That's my jam.

I am at my core of just like an alt rock doofus, you know?

So that's why I'm...

It's a good era of music.

That's B-Row.

It really

is.

It really is.

Still my favorite...

band of all time, Nirvana, playing us in from the break

here.

But, you know, enough goofing around here.

We got to get to our guest here for the next portion of the show.

We have Joseph Pecky, who has been on the news a little bit lately because he's running for chair of the Democratic Party of Wisconsin.

Mr. Zepecky, thank you so much for joining us here on Civic Media.

Mr. is a pecky so formal.

I didn't think my dad was on the show today.

And hey, I'm happy to just talk about like yellow jackets, needle drops for the whole half hour.

The 90s music is OK over here too.

Another thing we agree on another

thing we agree

on.

So you are so you're running for chair of the Democratic Party of Wisconsin.

You announced this last week.

What is the response been like to your launch for this campaign?

It's been fantastic.

You know, I didn't want to charge right into this.

This is not about me.

This is about where we go as a party.

And so after Ben Wickler made the announcement that he was going to step down after six very successful years and a lot of lot of races won, I spent the week talking to folks from across the state, from every part of our coalition, black, white, rural, urban, gay, straight, you know, old.

Young like across the board.

It's really important to me that we keep everybody together at this incredible moment and the response was overwhelming and it was frankly a little bit more than I anticipated voices calling for change

for improving the way we do things like our organizing model, like support, county parties, and neighborhood teams.

And so with that and my background in communications, and I think everyone's agreement that the Democratic Party needs to find a way to communicate our values and our message better.

I've got a lot of thoughts about that.

We can get into some of it.

And so, you know, with a lot of encouragement and with a big team of 20,

endorsers on day one rolled out and it's been building ever since.

We just released seven more new folks from Rock County and Milwaukee and elsewhere just last night.

So it's been going great so far and there's a lot of work to do and I want to continue to hear from people across our coalition from all corners of the Democratic Party to teach me what I don't know and make me smarter.

That's how we got to do this.

Yeah, I I want to start by like full disclosure.

I did endorse Joseph Peckie.

You were on

that list

of 20 people

endorsing Joseph Peckie.

I want to make that note on day one But that doesn't mean I'm not gonna ask him the tough questions like I've worked with the Peckie And I think that's how we've maintained such a good relationship through that But I think a question a lot of folks are asking right now is like how are we going to promote bolder leadership?

like elected officials to like meet the moment, but then I think there's also been sometimes, and we've talked about this Dan, that Dems seem to sometimes negotiate against themselves, right?

How can we kind of enter this new phase of leadership and supporting elected officials to meet the moment with bolder actions?

This is not a time to be timid.

And I've heard it said in the last couple of days that if we're all just a little bit brave, nobody needs to be the hero.

There's nobody coming to save us, right?

This is not about one person.

It has to be about all of us.

If you are not satisfied with the leadership you are getting from your elected representatives, if you are not satisfied with your elected representatives, supporting a particular person for continued leadership roles in our party when they're 140 years old, say so.

That's okay.

We can figure this out on our team, how we most effectively stand up as this Trump administration takes a blow torch to the Constitution, to fundamental American values in a way that is scaring people, in a way that is like genuinely frightening.

When you can take a student who is here on a legal visa in the dead of night, sneak up on her and snatch her,

And that is as un-American as it gets.

When you can rendition Albrego Garcia, a union apprentice to a gulag in El Salvador without due process, we have lost our way.

And no one of us can do all of the things.

But we have to start by using our voices.

One of the ways I think we do that is as a party, we empower more messengers.

It doesn't have to be elected people who speak for us.

We all across this pro-democracy movement have a voice and we have more tools at our disposal than ever before to use it.

What I want to see the Democratic Party do is support folks.

If they say, hey, I got something to say, we're going to teach and support you in saying it.

We're going to build new ways to get to people because we are where the change is going to come from.

And it starts by standing up and demanding it.

We're seeing that at hands-off protests.

We're hearing it in roundtable discussions about what happens when Medicaid gets cut by $800 billion.

It takes all of us.

Angela knows this about me.

I'm a coach.

And to me, it's like, this is a team.

This is a team game.

And it takes all of us.

We got a spot for everybody on our team.

Well, I coached first grade girls basketball this year.

So we're both

coaches.

I love it.

Yeah.

Coach Dan.

That's right.

So one of the things that you put out in some of your in a press release when you were, you know, talking about running for DNC or wisdoms chair was about

what you characterize as fundamentally reshaping how we communicate our values.

One of the things you've really talked a lot about is that communication aspect, is that media aspect of it?

And why do you think that is such a priority for you?

Why has that been such a big part of what you've had to say in the early goings of this?

I guess campaign, do you characterize it as?

Yeah.

Yes.

Well, listen, like, let's acknowledge April 1 was a great day and we had a big win and it's a lot better to win.

But let's also not forget that we lost to Donald Trump, the worst person in America and two of the last three presidential elections.

And we're losing it because we are either completely abandoning the information space and how we communicate with critical parts of our coalition.

Or when we are engaging,

They don't believe us.

And why should they when we don't say it with our chest?

There is nothing about being a Democrat that we need to be embarrassed about in this top down approach of like, these are the three talking points and we're only going to talk about the economy or we're only going to talk about housing.

We're not going to talk about immigration.

We're not going to talk about due process.

We're not going to talk about how we stand up for our trans brothers and sisters and the entire LGBTQ community.

It's not okay.

My approach to messaging is we all are at our most effective when we are speaking authentically.

That is much more credible.

And so, listen, I may talk about an issue different than Angela does and the people we talk to might have different things that they care about the most.

If we get lost in the sauce of trying to be like, while Jay-Z, you're going to be in front of a young Latino audience, so you got to say these things,

And then I try to match what I bring to what I'm supposed to say, they're not going to believe me.

If I tell my story about why I think the Democratic Party is the only party for this moment, then they will believe me.

And I think what we need to start by recognizing is the anger and frustration that people feel is valid.

Think about how angry you must be to be like, I don't care if Donald Trump's a felon.

I don't care if he's got 13 billionaires in his cabinet.

He still is at least something different.

And what we need to, I think do is talk about how rigged and fixed the system is.

Like the promise of the American dream is gone.

It's gone.

Like when the three of us were all about the same age, like when we came out of high school, we could have confidence that whether we went to a two or four year school,

into a trade or into the military.

By the time we were 40, we could probably own a home.

We could probably have the start of a nest egg for retirement.

The 20-year-old in our house, the 20-year-olds that I recently coached, they look at that idea and they look at me like I'm crazy because we have let big corporations nickel and dime us to death.

Oh, you want to work?

Cool.

You only get 29 hours a week.

Well, why 29?

I want to work full time.

Well, if you work 30 hours a week, then we got to give you health care.

Of course people are upset.

They should be upset.

And when we get perceived as defenders of a status quo that is fundamentally not working, whether you are black or white or Asian or, you know, live in a rural community or the city center, of course people should be upset and we act like we don't even notice.

Well, that's one of the things that has been frustrating to me about the Democratic Party is this, they've been kind of.

cornered into this position where they've been defending a status quo that

has

no longer been working for people because Donald Trump has painted himself as this like outside or chain change it.

change agent in 2016 and 2024.

He couldn't really do that in 2020 because he was, you know, having to run on his record and he didn't win.

And so, you know, I do think that is a really important point that you raised there.

We are talking here on civic media with Joseph Heckey.

He is running to be the next chair of the Democratic Party of Wisconsin.

And, you know, there was another thing that I saw, you know, in

On Meet the Press yesterday, there was this moment with Senator Van Hollen, responding to some criticism from Governor Gavin Newsom about, and he talked about, the quote that he said was, I think Americans are tired of elected officials or politicians who are all finger to the wind.

Anybody who can't stand up for the Constitution and the rights and due process don't deserve to lead.

Do you agree with him there?

With Gavin, with Van Hollen.

With Van Hollen, yeah.

I missed that.

Yes, this is not about

what's popular and going to win an election next November.

This is about standing up for working people.

I don't know if Albrego Garcia, if he had voted, who he voted for.

I don't care.

He has rights under the constitution and they were violated.

Like full stop.

And for everybody, like for Donald Trump and his administration to accuse Senator Van Hollen of grandstanding,

talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

Like, what are we talking about?

And as I was having this conversation with some of the other night, I said, well, you know, now that Van Hollen's gone, maybe we don't need to send another delegation.

I'm not so sure about that.

I think if we let this story die down, that Albrego Garcia might die.

And we will never get him home.

And to be clear, if the laws and authorities of this country

say that Albrego Garcia should come back and stand trial?

Fine.

Bring the evidence to the courtroom.

But in this country, we have never been a place where you are guilty and renditionable until proven innocent.

And that is how the Trump administration is acting.

And if they can do it to him, they can do it to any of us.

And

Yes, we can be afraid of that, but we also have agency in standing up and speaking out against it and holding elected officials' feet to the fire to put an end to it, period.

Yes.

And I think that there are times that some, you know, going back to what you said about now is not the time to be timid, right?

I think we all agree that there is like grave injustices that are happening, but the disalignment, I guess, is how we get there.

And I think there's some folks that are like, we just need to take a more moderate stance.

We need to negotiate behind the scenes, right?

And there's, I think like a huge kind of split in the Democratic Party, whether it's through Palestine or you're too left or whatever you, and it's, I've seen.

some folks, even an elected official posted on Facebook today, basically trying to shut down some lefties for how they showed up in November.

And I don't think that's particularly helpful.

I think people can have their analysis.

But how do you unite the party while also getting folks to be more bold at the same time?

Listen, this is the hardest part about being a big tent.

Because we need to have room in our coalition for people who start a conversation about what's happening in the Middle East by declaring it a genocide.

And we need to have room for people who started by saying Israel has the right to defend itself.

Our coalition can and ought to encompass all of that because the democratic way is, I believe, the responsible way.

as opposed to what this administration is doing.

So my approach is you bring the biggest table possible, you bring all the chairs you can to it, and we hash this stuff out as a family, and it's okay to have hard conversations.

It's okay to disagree.

My 95% of the time friend and supporter isn't my 100% of the time enemy and opponent because they disagree with me on 5% of stuff.

And so this is messy.

Democracy is messy.

And that's okay, but we have to recognize that everyone is acting in good faith here and trying to do the right thing.

That's the way forward.

Joseph Peckie is our guest here on the Civic Media Radio Hours, and we will be back with one more segment with Mr. Zepeckie.

After the break, stick with us.

Welcome back to the Civic Media Radio Hours.

My name is Dan Schaefer.

I'm your guest host this afternoon.

Just a reminder once again that we will have a little bit of a lineup change coming here on the Civic Media Airwaves later this week in this

four to six p.m.

time slot will be the Maggie Dawn Show.

Yes, it's moving back later in the afternoon so you can listen to the Maggie Dawn Show on your drive time.

And so many more changes.

Go check those out.

I've got a story about it at the Reconbibulation Area even because we're pretty excited about it as well.

And we are talking here with our guest for this portion of the program.

It is Joseph Pecky.

He is running to be the next chair of the Democratic Party of Wisconsin.

Joe, thank you again for joining us here.

Thanks, Ben.

Glad to do it.

So in the next hour of the show, and our guest to begin the five o'clock hour, we're going to be bringing on my friend Kevin Laid, who is an immigration attorney.

We'll be getting into that issue a little bit more.

Obviously, it has been a top-of-mind issue in recent weeks with the case of Kilmar, Arbrego, Garcia.

But I think more broadly, this is a criticism that I have had of the Democratic Party for several months now, going back to the campaign last year, has been that the party's inability to articulate what it stands for.

when it comes to immigration.

I think there are, you know, so much of the conversation just happens in the shadow of what Donald Trump says, of what the Republican Party says on this issue.

And I think it makes it so that it's always a reaction and never really saying what the party stands for.

So in your mind, what do you think the Democrat Democratic Party should stand for when it comes to immigration?

We need to be a country that welcomes people from other parts of the world.

We have been the shining light on a hill.

We ought to remain that.

We're the best and brightest and the smartest and people who yearn for freedom can come to our country and become a part of the American fabric.

Legally in due process and due order.

And if anyone doesn't think that we can't do that while securing our border and ensuring we know who is here.

and stopping the flow of drugs like fentanyl from coming into our country and hurting our communities, then you don't believe in America.

I choose to believe in America.

We can do big things.

We have done big things before.

What has been missing is the political will.

Since Ronald Reagan in the 80s, there has not been a modernization and upgrade to our immigration system.

I mean, we were all 80s babies.

The reason we like 90s music is because we didn't know any of the artists in the 80s, right?

And so president after president, political parties, both of them share the blame for not getting this solved.

It gets this dirty word, comprehensive immigration reform.

Of course, it should be comprehensive.

We live in a complicated world.

but at a time when American birth rates are declining.

There are two paths here.

There is the path that the Trump administration is pursuing, which is to make more white babies and to figure out ways through public policy to promote more women to bear children and to grow our population that way.

I believe the Democratic Party way

is to support families so they can make their own decisions about starting a family or expanding a family and being welcoming to people from across the world.

That is how we became truly great and the greatest country in the world and we need to get back to that because this demonization that every problem is the fault of the family down the street who doesn't look like everybody else

it's nonsense and like we've been through it before it's how people used to talk about the irish and the polish so like none of this is new really

We just got to get serious about solving the problem.

And if this Trump approach is anything, it is an invitation to get serious about comprehensive across the board updates and modernization of our immigration

system.

But don't you think Republicans would just come back to that and say, hey, you're for open borders.

You want more people to come here.

We don't.

Or whatever their line on the border security and all that might be.

If we let Republicans, what they're going to say about us, define what we do and what we believe in, shame on us.

When US Senator Ron Johnson today is out here spouting 9-11 conspiracy theories and wants to reopen hearings to get to the bottom of what happened on 9-11,

we

can't live our lives worrying about what they will say.

We have to say in more places, in more spaces, with more messengers from across our movement, what we are for.

It is easy to be against what this administration is doing.

We also need to be for something.

And an immigration system that works is an awfully easy thing to be for, particularly because it strengthens and grows our economy in a way that tariffs and market uncertainty

do not.

And so like that's the choice we got to lay out to people.

Immigration is about our values.

But it is also about how we grow an economy that actually works for people.

So do you think it needs do you think the Democratic Party needs to adopt a more pro immigration platform?

Yes.

Yes.

What's the alternative?

Well, I think the alternative is what we've been seeing for many years where

it's

kind of this kind of squishy middle ground where it's just, you know, you have Democratic politicians doing ads at the border or whatever it might be.

I don't know if we've really had a politician to say come out and say like we want, you know, I don't think the Obama administration really prioritized this.

I think a lot of people have problems with what the Biden administration did on immigration.

You know, I think this is one of the big challenges.

Donald Trump said that immigration was his number one issue in the campaign, not the economy, immigration.

So I think it is really a big deal for the Democratic Party to figure out what it stands for and to be able to articulate it.

We're going to beat them on immigration.

We're going to beat them on the economy.

We're going to beat them on health care.

And we're going to say it with our chest.

That is the way.

And if you are ready to revitalize the way the Democratic Party communicates with communities across our coalition, please visit jozapeki.com.

Consider joining our team as we try to build a stronger Democratic Party that is capable of meeting this moment.

And then you get to be on the same team as Angela.

Angela, we love you.

Thank you for your support, friend.

And keep the hard questions coming.

That was part of the deal.

I know she's going to come at me when I'm when I'm wrong.

Yeah, we all are.

We all are.

Well, Mr. Zappecki, thank you once again for joining us here on the Civic Media Radio Hours.

We'll be right back.

And after the break, we'll join be joined.

Welcome back to the Civic Media Radio Hours.

I'm your guest host this afternoon.

My name is Dan Schaefer.

Thank you so much for joining us today.

Just another reminder that we have a lineup change coming here on the Civic Media Airwave.

So in this 4 to 6 p.m.

time slot coming up later this week, beginning on Wednesday, you will be hearing the Maggie Dawn Show from 4 to 6 p.m.

on the Civic Media Network.

Be sure to tune in when that happens for those changes.

We've got an expanded morning show.

We've got a couple other new time slots for your shows.

And we've got a story about that at the Reconbobulation area and on Civic Media.

So do check that out for those upcoming changes.

And also this evening, the Milwaukee Brewers will take on the San Francisco Giants.

The broadcast begins at 8.10 p.m.

You can listen here on various Civic Media stations, including WRCE in Richmond.

W.I.S.S.

in Oshkosh, W.R.J.N.

in Racine and Kenosha, and our newest Brewers affiliate, W.B.Z.H.

in Hayward, Wisconsin.

The Brewers are taking on the San Francisco Giants, a matchup with our old friend, William Domus, who used to play for the Brewers, now plays for the Giants.

They kick off a series in San Francisco.

Again, the broadcast begins at 8.10 p.m.

So tune in on the civic media radio network for that.

And once again, my name is Dan Schaefer.

I'm your guest host this afternoon.

I'm joined in studio by Angela Lang, executive director of Black Leaders Organizing for Communities.

She is our co-host this afternoon.

Angela, how are we doing so far?

We're through one hour

of the show already.

We're cruising.

It's flying by.

It's been really good.

It's been good.

We're listening to

some 90s alternative

rock.

It's been great.

I know.

I'm jamming all the time.

Yeah.

It's been

great.

So joining us, our next guest joining us today is Kevin Laid.

He is a partner at Laid and Para Law Firm.

And he is here to talk about immigration in some of the big cases that we've been seeing in the nation, including the case of Kilmar-Obrego Garcia.

That case has captured the nation's attention as a flash point in Donald Trump's push for mass deportation and whether the immigration is following the law

law and the Constitution in these cases.

So here to talk with us again is Kevin Laid, managing partner at the Laid and Parallel Offering.

Kevin, thank you so much for joining us this afternoon.

Thank you for having me on, Dan.

Angela, very nice to see you again.

Yeah, you too.

So, Kevin joined us a couple months ago on the Reconpopulation Area podcast to talk about some of the things that were happening in the early days of the Trump administration.

We're starting to see kind of where the rubber meets the road and some of these impacts here.

And this case with Kilmar Abrigo Garcia has really stood out.

So, why does this case stand out from so many of the others happening right now?

Why is this case particularly...

significant.

Yeah, so thank you very much for having me on.

I really appreciate it.

I think that what is happening right now with this individual in particular, but writ large with a lot of folks in your community is something pretty unprecedented in my lifetime.

And I think that this case is an excellent example of the priorities of the administration and their intentions in terms of how they're going to proceed with these types of plans.

So I'd like to start.

just really briefly with a little bit of historical context, because as you know, as kind of like a technical professional in this field, when I see stuff in the media and these different reports and stuff like that, right?

I think a lot of the sentiment is correct, but a lot of the specifics are very complicated and sometimes can be kind of lost on a general audience.

So

this is why we need to recompobulate on some of these

things.

Precisely.

So I would say that you really have to start in World War II, honestly for this.

When you're talking about what is asylum and what is the asylum system in the United States.

So prior to World War II, the United States did not have any policy for how it would address people who are displaced by things like war and violence and persecution who flee to our country.

And obviously there was massive shock, millions of people displaced, millions of people killed during World War II because of a lack of those types of protections.

So the idea is that the United States signed on to the United Nations agreement on refugees in 1951 in order to make sure that this type of stuff wasn't going to happen again.

And what that requires is that our law provides an opportunity, excuse me, for people who are fleeing from persecution to make a claim here in the United States to be able to assert why they deserve protection and should be allowed to stay here.

And that essentially foundational document is the reason why we have all of these types of laws that exist in the United States to this day.

Asylum is something that is very popular.

One, because it's one of the only things that anyone can apply for.

You don't have to have family members here, right?

You don't have to have work opportunities or things like that.

Simply based on who you are, you have the right to file for this.

And so there's a lot of claim that there's a lot of fraud and a lot of abuse in this.

People are trying to string their cases along and do different things like that.

But that is not the case for Mr. Abrego Garcia.

He was detained in the United States when he was here without papers in 2019.

He was put into an immigration process where he was denied bond and he was held in an immigration detention center until he completed an asylum process.

At the conclusion of that asylum process, a judge found him ineligible for asylum.

I don't know why, but I think it's because he'd been here for a long time and typically have to file for asylum quickly after you arrive.

But what they did find is that he's eligible for something called withholding of removal.

Withholding of removal is an asylum-like claim that is actually more difficult to win.

To win asylum, you have to show something like a 10 or 20 percent chance you'll be harmed when you go back.

To win withholding of removal, you have to show a 51 plus percent likelihood.

So the United States government, what it did is essentially it gave them a deportation order, but they said that we cannot deport you to El Salvador because it would be too dangerous for you.

Because we think more likely than not something terrible will happen to you if you get sent back.

This is a law that is based in the United Nations and based in the Immigration and Nationality Act, which was signed passed by Congress and signed by the president.

What Donald Trump chose to do when it detained mr. Abrigo Garcia and removed him from the country within a matter of days Was to completely ignore that order like it never happened and simply to deport him from the United States completely illegally without justification Since that time you know things like this happen right and in terms of law enforcement where the wrong person gets you know Detained or their heirs but the issue is like what is the remedy that we have you know as a system of laws in this country and what the Trump administration has essentially said is

Nothing.

They've admitted it was a mistake.

They've admitted that he was sent to a country that we explicitly buy our laws so that he cannot be removed to, and they refuse to do anything to bring him back to the United States.

That included refusing to turn around an airplane that he was on when it was in the air, when he was being sent to El Salvador.

It includes refusing to provide updates to judicial orders about his whereabouts, about his health, and also to return him to the United States.

The Supreme Court has sort of weighed in a couple of times on this case already and they'll be coming back in again.

And they've essentially said, you know, in some half measures and using some vague language, they've said that the United States government does have a clear responsibility to facilitate his return to the country.

And the Trump

administration, what they've chosen to do, Dan, is they've chosen to simply completely ignore these orders and instead go to the court of public opinion to try to paint this person as a terrorist or a criminal.

The evidence in my eyes is not there for that.

like based on what I've read and based on what I've seen.

But I think the point that's getting lost is it doesn't matter because a judge already had the opportunity to review his case and already made the finding that he cannot be deported regardless of whether he has a domestic violence injunction that was filed against him.

That's not the point of this case.

The point of this case is that our government has decided that if he goes back he can be killed.

And the fact that our government is refusing to do this and instead is trying to go outside the law

is frankly terrifying to me as an immigration legal professional, because if this can happen to him, it can happen to anyone, which is being removed from the country without having the opportunity to have a judge decide if that is legally correct.

And that is where we are

today.

And that's why people are talking about this in terms of a constitutional crisis, right?

Because what's happening here is that, like you said, through these laws that were established post World War II, that he was a judge ruled on his case,

saying one certain thing and the Trump administration is completely ignoring it.

And so I think, like you said, it really does open up this Pandora's box of just like, what else could they possibly do from here?

It's terrifying.

I mean, that was what I was going to say.

I know there's a lot of like fear and I don't want us to like sow chaos, but I think that there is a strong sense of like urgency.

And a lot of folks are like, okay, we see students being picked up.

We see, you know, legal citizens or even just like the increase in racial profiling and

Again, I don't want to cause a mass panic, but there is some urgency, so I'm wondering how you balance what is very real, a potential slippery slope in the dangerous precedent that this is setting now, but also understanding that we're not there yet too.

Yeah, well, so the thing about this case is this Angela the executive branch has such broad authority in immigration They can do so many things and when the Trump administration was coming into office, you know We're all sitting around and our immigration lawyer groups talking about what types of terrible stuff they're gonna do They can do things like restrict the number of visas that they issue every year They can make the criteria and these vetting process is much more strict and arbitrary

Frankly, they can reduce the number of refugee admissions.

They can change the laws related to asylum process, all within the legal framework that exists.

And that's much of the stuff that they did in 2016, right?

In the previous administration, yeah.

Correct.

That is not what's happening right now.

I mean, there are things like that going on where they're starting to roll out different types of more policy-based approaches.

But what we're seeing right now is, frankly, like it's a chaos element.

It's an enforcement that is uneven.

It's enforcement that is illegal in some cases, that is clearly profiling individuals for their political opinions and perhaps their country of origin and religious backgrounds.

And we're seeing a government like the, you know, that is basically just turning loose and saying, you know, who's going to stop us, right?

It's like Andrew Jackson said when, you know, famously Donald Trump's kind of inspiration as president said the Supreme Court can make any rulings they want.

They can feel free to enforce them afterwards, right?

And once you have that type of a mentality,

then I think there's really fundamental problems that can grow out of this in a democracy.

And I think, of course, immigrants are the group that they want to go to the court of public opinion because a lot of people talk about how much they don't like quote unquote illegal immigrants.

And so this is simply a test case, I think.

This is a stocking course for what can come next.

And I mean, I try not to be an alarmist, Angela, but I really think that we might not be there yet, but let's see how this one goes.

Because after this, if this is allowed to stand,

it is going to be a different country afterwards.

I feel like in so many ways the Trump administration is stress testing the system to see what it's going to allow.

And this seems like an especially important test case for whether our guardrails will hold, whether the rule of law means something, whether where we are in terms of the Constitution and whether that matters, what separation of powers, all these fundamental American bedrock.

Bedrock things it's so important and and I think we're gonna get into a little bit more of it after the break here But I think you know one of the things that I wanted to ask was just what type of impact does this have?

On the people who are who are working with you to try and navigate

the

system legally.

I guess we'll have a chance Sorry my our producer is letting me know that we just have one minute before the break here.

So we'll get into that After the break, we're talking with Kevin laid who is the managing partner at the Layden par law firm We've been talking here about the case of Kilmar our Brego Garcia and why this case does

separate itself from the others.

Why this is so significant.

And we'll get into more of that.

After the break here, you are listening to the Civic Media Radio Hours.

I'm Dan Schaefer.

Angela Lange is here with me.

Kevin Laid is our guest.

And we will be back in just a few minutes after the break.

Stick with us.

you

Welcome back to the Civic Media Radio Hours.

I'm your host this afternoon.

My name is Dan Schaefer.

Thank you so much for joining us today.

My co-host in studio at Radio Park in Racine is Angela Lang.

And our guest for this segment of the show is Kevin Lay, the managing partner at the Layden Para Law Firm and Immigration Attorney.

We've been talking a little bit about the case of Kilmar Abrego Garcia.

and why this case is particularly significant.

And I wanted to talk to you about this, given all of the headlines about this case, given all the attention that it's getting, when things like this happen, what type of impact does it have on the people who you're working with to try to navigate the system legally, to try to become legal citizens of the United States of America?

Yeah, so I think a lot of that is sort of still playing out at this point because stuff is really going in real time.

And I think that

Sometimes some of the higher level stuff takes a little while to kind of trickle down into people's consciousness.

I don't know if that's the case this time because I think this has gotten some real kind of purchase, you know, both within the community and also sort of like nationally and within the media.

I mean, you have senators flying down there and stuff about this.

And so, I mean, the biggest thing is I think there's a chilling effect, right?

Because I think that a lot of, I mean, everybody that I work with has a path to having legal status in the United States.

There's a set of laws that they can follow in a playbook that they can go through that's going to cost a lot of money and take a lot of time and maybe has some inherent risks to it.

But on the other side, they'll have lawful status in the United States.

And so that's the goal that anybody has.

It really is to be able to live your life as fully as you can here.

But I think what the Trump administration is doing, and I think perhaps intentionally, is to really introduce a lot of uncertainty into a cost-benefit analysis that people have to make.

because if it's going to cost twice as much and you're half as likely as before to be able to get to your goal and that perhaps there's the risk that this sort of boogeyman can just make you disappear off the street at some point, you're going to be a lot less interested in calling attention to yourself and going through background checks and being fingerprinted and going through a process because there's not a lot of trust in the institution that it's going to deliver the result that it says that it's going to deliver.

And I think that's maybe a microcosm of a lot of different areas in American life right now.

So I've certainly had a conversation with a guy a couple of days ago.

He had a 20-some-year-old criminal issue.

And I said, under Biden, you'd have no issue going for your citizenship.

I recommended him to wait for four years.

And so what does that do, right?

When it's just one person who's doing something like that, when you have millions of people.

who are putting things off, staying in the shadows, be more likely to be victims of workplace exploitation, separated from their families, not able to get as good a job to take care of their kids.

And so I think the cost of something like this is only gonna reveal itself over time.

I'm curious, and I think I asked a similar question last time we spoke a few months ago, but things have shifted drastically.

I'm curious of how folks can feel that they can support the immigrant community, right?

Because I think that there's a lot of despair.

I think people feel helpless, especially if you are in or outside of the community.

in talking to some of my friends, there are some real frustrations around the lack of movements and stances and support from elected officials or other leaders.

Like how can people be supportive in this time?

Yeah, that's a great question.

So I think from the top down...

I think there's a lot of discouragement in the types of circles that would be supportive of immigrant rights.

If you look at what happened, the Trump administration is all the way dug in.

They got this guy transferred out of a maximum security hellhole into a better facility through political pressure.

So even in these time frames, political pressure can still be exerted.

And whatever constituents can do to exert political pressure on their politicians to stand up for their constituents, I think is going to be huge.

I think beyond that, it's really challenging.

I mean I think that you know there's not at least in Wisconsin for example like an immigrant defense justice fund to contribute to at least not yet which exists in some other places where it can be like money used to pay lawyers for urgent cases that come up.

So I think that's part of it.

I mean I think a big part of it is just like

advocating for this in the spaces that we're able to be, that this is important within our communities so that our elected officials who really are the people who can kind of make the differences on this type of stuff can be able to make a difference.

The other thing is there's a lot of misinformation and stuff out there, right?

And there's a lot of rumors and a lot of people with green cards that are traveling at all right now, even though they haven't had issues and things like that.

And I think a lot of the chaos is really to try to restrict people's movement and actions.

So I think as much as possible, and I guess you guys particularly as media,

I think that's an important responsibility, right?

To report on this stuff and report on this stuff accurately so that people can make the most informed decisions in this timeframe.

Well, that's why we want to have an immigration attorney here on the airwaves

and the civic

media radio hours.

That's why we're having this conversation.

So I think, you know, just given that this case is a certain flash point, you know, is there a way in which the case of Kilmarra, Braco Garcia represents not just one especially troubling instance, but

maybe the tip of the iceberg of greater problems under the surface.

Yeah, definitely.

So I'll give you a little bit kind of a different context really fast.

There's something called a national registration, which was created by laudering World War II to like intern Japanese people and stuff like that, which has then been dormant essentially for a long time, which the Trump administration has recently revived and basically told all undocumented people that they need to register for this list.

Otherwise, they're criminals now.

being undocumented is not a crime until they make it a crime.

And so that kind of happened overnight with very little fanfare, meaning that people can be picked up and arrested and detained and put into criminal proceedings for being here without papers.

So you're starting to see how they're starting to like push on both ends, right?

it's like people who they can already have in the system, they're picking them up and then these other people, they're trying to put them on paper, right?

And so then, you know, they can start to really try to build this pipeline at the same time, they're getting more money for enforcement, for apprehensions, expanding detention centers, you know, ICE Milwaukee wants to move to a bigger facility to increase their enforcement capacity.

So you're starting to see like there is the dots are starting to connect, you know what I mean?

And so there's a system that's being built.

And I think that if it is able to be completed again,

broken record, we're going to be living in a different country at that point because your neighbors are going to look different than they would before, right?

The kids who go to your kids' schools are going to look different than they would before.

The people working on the farms, it's going to be different than it was before.

So I think that's the future, guys.

I think that's where we're heading.

It's not great.

It's not great.

But I think,

like you said, it's important for us to continue to have these conversations.

It's important for us to dispel misinformation when and where we can.

And I think it's important to highlight cases like this.

that do become these flashpoints so that we'll, you know, I don't know without the public pressure if we have a senator flying down to El Salvador.

Next time I'm on, you guys can ask me about the Venezuelan hairdresser who was sent to this horrific prison.

I'll report from a Milwaukee police officer who doesn't have the credibility to be able to testify in state court anymore.

So lots to discuss.

Lots to discuss.

Thank you so much for joining

us for this

conversation.

Our guest has been Kevin Lay, the managing partner at the Layton Parra Law Firm.

You're listening to the Civic Media Radio Hours.

Stick with us.

We will be right back.

Welcome back to the Civic Media Radio Hours.

I'm your host this afternoon.

My name is Dan Schaefer, joined in studio by my co-host, Angela Lang.

Just a reminder to all of our listeners, we have some schedule changes coming up.

So here in this four to six PM hour, later this week, you will be hearing the Maggie Dawn Show, which moves from its current time slot at two to four PM to the drive time spot at four to six PM.

So be sure to tune in for that.

I know Maggie has some terrific things planned.

for that as well.

Also wanted to let all of you know, for those who might not be familiar with the Reconbobulation area, you can subscribe and support our work.

We have a special subscriber appreciation happy hour coming up very soon on May 1st.

For those of you who are paid subscribers to the Reconbobulation area, you get your first round on us at

third space brewing, but even if you're not a subscriber, even if you're not a paid subscriber, we're all about building community at the recombobulation area.

So come hang out.

have a pint or two and enjoy some community with us at the Reconpopulation Area.

Joining us for our, we have a lot of guests today.

A lot of guests to talk to.

And our next guest is a, is now a regular contributor at the Reconpopulation Area.

Her name is Emily Sefos.

She is the chair of the Democratic party of Ottegami County in Northeastern Wisconsin.

She was a 2024 state assembly candidate and a former statewide organizer for Indivisible.

Emily, thank you.

so much for joining us today.

Thanks for having me.

I'm excited to be here with you.

So you wrote a column last week at the Reconpopulation Area about public education funding.

Tell us what you had to say.

I

did.

It was kind of...

Like laying bare, I think is what I attempted to do the quiet war that I believe is happening when it comes to the funding and support for our public schools across the state.

It's no secret that we have a funding problem when we see almost 100 school districts go to a referendum each and every time we have an election.

And it's really.

For me, it's a lot about educating the public because there's a lot of things people don't know.

And I think the Republican lawmakers in Madison specifically are taking advantage of the lack of information that we have as the electorate.

So I'm just really trying everywhere I can to lay out why there's a problem and that this problem doesn't need to exist.

And it's messing with our kids' futures.

So walk us through it.

The column again is called Defund Discredit Dismantled, the GOP's quiet war on Wisconsin's public schools.

Yeah, so really it was just kind of calling to attention the fact that we have been defunding when we talk about the school and the rate that we fund them at it hasn't kept up with inflation and the cost of goods and services rising for the last 16 years and it continues to lag behind and we're in the middle of a budget cycle right now So it's really paramount that we sound the alarm about this because if things don't change and we keep kicking that hand on the road We are going to see kids in rural spaces and in urban spaces that don't have like

property tax draw frankly and don't have the wealthier communities to fund them really up a crack and like lagging further and further behind and I really just want to make sure that the electorate knows that this is a concerted effort.

We cannot operate like our schools fund our schools.

districts and our public school system, like a free market kind of thing.

It doesn't work.

It hasn't worked.

These are things that we need for societal good and to take care of our communities.

And we cannot just defund them and get rid of them and push everyone to private schools.

It doesn't work.

And it won't work.

And if we don't sound the alarm on that, that's what we're going to get to.

And so we've got to push back now.

Yeah, you're right.

It's we are right in the middle of the budget discussions I think because of the spring election The Republican controlled state legislature kind of pushed everything back to after the election hoping that their candidate might win Maybe they would you know, re-rig the maps for them Whatever it might be, but now that we're past the election We're starting to get into that budget cycle and I think a week from today

I want to say is the first meeting of the joint finance committee first official meeting.

I think they've had a couple of listening sessions around the state.

And I think, you know, there was obviously the news last week with Governor Evers veto, you know, with his very creative use of the veto to extend some public education funding.

But I guess first, what was your reaction to that news to that last week?

And what do you hope?

you know, this is the message that people can convey at those joint finance committee meetings.

I mean, I'm really glad that Governor Evers is utilizing that powerful veto pen.

And I'm thankful, I guess, in this case that it exists because it needs to.

But again, we're not like, I'm just tired of seeing like all of this be treating like the symptoms that bubble up and we're not dealing with the root of the problem.

And the root of the problem is that the funding formula is not adequate and we need to stop.

pretending that it is, and we need to stop maligning our public schools.

It's ridiculous, and we need to come out very strongly to say this isn't right.

So yes, celebrate that victory, but also there's a huge issue that we need to address here.

Yeah, I would say in addition to the funding formula, we've

not we here but you know Wisconsin and Republicans specifically have like vilified public schools and specifically teachers and you know you think about as you mentioned kind of like how school funding has been you know not kept up with inflation for the last 16 years or I think about the first time I saw

public schools and teachers be vilified was under the Walker administration, right?

And that coincides with it.

And I feel like this has been a long journey of chipping away at public schools and we can unpack who goes to public schools and whatnot and all of that.

But you mentioned earlier about like Republicans kind of taking advantage and I think

using this message of vilifying public schools and I think about Milwaukee public schools and the challenges that they're going through.

Can you say more about how like Republicans are kind of exploiting some of the frustrations in public schools and tying it to vilifying teachers as well?

Yeah, and I think I heard that like to you know your point I heard that on a lot of doors last year when I campaigned and it was it's it's this manufactured outrage and we are you know all that misinformation Disinformation that exists it really has taken root and they're taking advantage of it right so they're that culturally and on a national level We're seeing all of these things being said whether it was

litter box, you know, and it comes from nothing, right?

It's litter boxes in your school.

And that's what I hear.

And then they're like, well, we don't like our public schools because of that.

And I'm like, well, this doesn't make any sense.

But they take advantage of that.

So I think like politics follows culture.

And they have been able to manufacture this crisis and this outrage that is really doing harm to the teachers and to the people that are really working their tails off to support these kids.

And it's, it's

chipped away at the trust that we have in those public institutions so you hear a lot of people that are like I don't you know I don't like and whether it's that or book bans or whatever um but it's really about like educating

the electorate on why we need public schools, why they have to exist in our society to take care of each other.

Yeah,

one of the things that I continue to see in polling on public schools, because the Marquette University Law School poll, the headline is always like, who's winning this particular race or what somebody's approval rating, but they do a lot of really interesting issue polling too.

And when it comes to public schools, I think there's this kind of like broader malaise that people can have that appears in these opinion polls.

But if you ask people about their specific public school, about like, you know, one question is like, how do you feel about public schools broadly?

And be like, eh, you know, they're fine.

And if you ask people, what do you think about your public school?

Then the conversation really changes.

Then you have a lot of support for your individual public school.

And that to me, you know, says that this is where people are.

And I think you also look at what you said with the referendums that have happened across the state too.

There have been nearly 350 referendums in the last two years for schools.

Most of them have passed.

I think that suggests to me that there is a problem that people in their local communities can recognize that there are funding needs.

But at the same time, we have Robin Voss and the state Republicans sitting on a more than $4 billion surplus.

100%.

Yeah, and I think that's such a good point is that we see most of those operational budget like referendums pass.

Like there is that support and so like the problem is that you have those lawmakers that are taking advantage of that manufactured outrage and then they are legislating against our public schools, but it isn't in alignment with what the public actually feels about.

what's right outside their door and who's serving their community.

And that's a huge problem.

And I've been to listening sessions with our local lawmakers up here.

And I'm just so incredibly frustrated with the lack of transparency and the lack of knowledge that they have about how these things function, about who goes to private schools versus public schools and what the legalities are there or how our schools are funded.

so apparent to me that they take advantage of that manufactured crisis to get into office and then even though they know that districts in their or school districts within their districts are going to refer to them and need that funding and the people want it, they still are underfunding them and no one's connecting those dots.

And you shared some of your own personal examples in the column that you wrote in this too.

Can you share some of that with our listeners today?

Yeah, so I have been transparent like on every door I have two kids that go to a private school system that my Husband graduated from he's from the Appleton area as well And we really appreciate it my youngest son has a complex needs and he cannot go to a private school and he's one of those kids that

they don't have the resources and so they can say no.

So he goes to an incredible public school and they wrap him up in all the all the care that he needs.

So he sees five professionals every day.

I was just there explaining how to feed like we have g-tube feedings that we have to have at school and that's part of his journey and they do that for him and it's incredible but when we're defunding those public schools when we're pushing kids to you know when we're

touting vouchers as being the solution to this problem.

That doesn't work.

And it doesn't work for kids like my youngest who cannot attend there and they legally don't have to have the supports in place.

And it doesn't work for people, for example, that like don't have the transportation to a school across town and cannot operate.

Like the logistics of the voucher thing working doesn't hold up if you really look down at what, you know, the different communities that they're saying would be served by this.

So

it's such an important point.

And I think there was some conservative pushback on that point in particular that really struck me as like completely misguided and out of touch because like.

I think all of us as parents who are involved in our kids' schools and all that, we all know people who have had this situation, or maybe they wanted to go to, like your family situation, there's a family history at a school, or you might apply for a charter school, or whatever it might be, we all have those examples

of people

who aren't necessarily, who might be denied to the school, but the public schools are there.

Yeah, and I think it's important to note that you can be private, you know, like it's not as black or white as anyone would make it believe or, you know, but like we can really, we can advocate and I think it's our responsibility, especially like as private school parents to be like, hey, this, yeah, this works for my family.

But if we want to make tuition cheaper from this private school, then that that can be the private school's job.

And if you really want to accept every kid.

then that can be your job to hire the professionals that you need.

But the accountability isn't there, the funding isn't there.

And so until that exists, no public funds for our private schools.

That doesn't make any sense.

At the end of it all, it's just public funds need to go to our public schools full stop.

Our guest is Emily Saffos.

She is the chair of the Democratic Party of Adagame County in Northeastern Wisconsin.

And her latest piece at the Recombobulation area is defund discredit dismantle the GOP's quiet war on Wisconsin's public schools.

So looking forward then here to this budget cycle, you know, what are you hoping to see?

What's the best case scenario?

I think like for me lowest hanging fruit is fixing the special education reimbursement rate.

It's only 30%.

Like, I mean, let's get that up to at least 60, which is still pretty bad, but we're making progress.

But also just the general funding and the way that that works out because there's different buckets that you get state money put into and the way that they're constantly drawing from their general funds to cover special education or to cover all of these other aspects that they need to cover to take care of these kids.

So just a funding increase.

That's reflective of the moment that we're in.

Fun schools.

Exactly.

It really should just be so simple, and I'm thinking about this whole conversation, and I'm like, how do you say no to this?

How do you say no to students and kids that need additional needs?

Once I learned that folks could turn away students with additional needs or that need specific care, I'm like, why is there not more of an uproar about this?

discussion I guess not here today but like in general it ends up putting school districts and kids against each other right and it's just like why can't we just have a fully funded public school system if that is not where people want to send their kids fine but it shouldn't be at the expense of public school systems and it's just I know it's just very frustrating and I don't understand how Republicans continue to justify.

We know what they're doing, right?

You say it's a quiet war.

I don't think it's so quiet these days, but just how they keep justifying it is just beyond me.

That's not a question, but you know.

It's a lot.

But I also think, and I'll just say one more thing here, and I think this kind of came up in the race for state superintendent last month, was that I don't think people who are public school advocates should advocate for the status quo.

You have to advocate for a different path forward for carving out a more progressive path on this.

And I think that is, you know, certainly part of what you were talking about in this piece at the Reconpopulation Area.

So thank you again for joining us here, Emily.

Thanks, Emily.

Go check out the piece.

Thank you.

We've got one more segment here on the Civic Media Radio Hour.

Stick with

us.

Welcome back to Civic Media Radio Hours.

I'm Dan Schaefer.

I'm here with Angela Lange.

We're listening to some Nirvana.

We're rocking out

here.

I'm going to definitely listen to it on the way home.

Jacob on the board has been bringing us all of my favorite 90s alternative rock tunes.

When I'm guest hosting, you're going to get some 90s alt rock.

It's just

going to happen.

It's inevitable.

But we've had a little bit of a heavy show.

We did.

We

did.

A good show.

A good show.

Lots of important topics.

The world's a heavy place right now.

But I want to lighten things up a little bit for this final segment.

And when I was here earlier, I brought some Girl Scout cookies

down

to our producer here, Luke Mathers, who bought some from my daughter's Girl Scout cookie store that we had.

And I told him as I was handing them off, I was just like, great job picking the two worst flavors

for the Girl Scout cookies.

So I wanted to know, Angela, what is your favorite?

favorite brand of Girl Scout cookie.

In my opinion, as a former Girl Scout myself for like three years, there is only one right answer, thin mints.

And then you put them in the freezer and that's the only way to eat them.

I was concerned about this.

What I have to know.

We agree on so many things.

We are, we're

in major

disagreement.

I am not a mint chocolate person.

I know it's weird.

I love it

tastes like chocolate mouthwash.

I love, I

don't understand it.

My favorite is mocha

coffee.

My favorite is peanut butter patties.

Okay.

I'm not a fan of peanut butter.

Peanut

butter is right there.

You, you're not a fan of peanut butter at

all.

Peanut butter and chocolate is like my favorite for any kind.

I'm stealing all the Reese's out of my daughter's

Easter

basket.

That's

how our deputy director is.

We make sure we give her Reese's all the time.

Shout out to Keisha, but I.

My mom had a peanut allergy.

And so we never had peanut butter or peanuts in the house.

And so I always just tell people I never developed the taste.

I will get down on a peanut butter and jelly sandwich.

Yes, I will get down.

If I want some chocolate and only a re-seed cup is available, I will eat it.

I don't hate it.

I just don't reach for peanut butter as my go-to.

But you go for mint.

I know.

I know.

I really don't understand

it.

I like mint chocolate chip ice cream.

A good coffee in the winter time is a mint mocha.

the mint mocha

or like a peppermint Christmas thing.

Yeah, I'm a huge peppermint mocha.

I don't know.

It's something about the chocolate and mint together.

The mint and the chocolate.

It just doesn't do it for me.

It just tastes like I'm having mixing toothpaste and a Hershey

bar together.

It's like the cilantro debate.

It is.

It's like either you love it or you think it tastes like soap.

Yeah.

And I love cilantro.

I don't know if that.

I love cilantro

too.