And welcome back it is the WXCO morning report part of mornings with Pat Kratlow here on 98.9 WXCO I am Chad Holmes along with Ian Welsh Ian.
Good morning.
Good morning Chad
2025 almost at the rearview mirror and uh 2026 is coming up and somebody we've had a chance to talk to a number of times during the 2025 calendar year from the uh wassa sustainability energy and the environment committee carol lukens and carol good to see you again
thank you good to be here
it is right now in the midst of winter for yesterday morning very warm then things got colder with some snow and we've had some early snow this year in fact and that means a lot of people are getting out there using their salt
to allow people not to slip as much.
But if you're used to much salt, that can be a problem.
That's what we're going to talk about today.
The salt ways to be smart about it, correct?
Yes, exactly.
And it really is something that is I was talking to you before we went on the air that in terms of layers, there's a lot of different layers are involved.
I don't think people really think about how
many different areas that salt can cause some issues with the environment.
It can cause issues also in terms of roads and bridges.
It really does cut across a lot of strata, doesn't
it?
It does.
Definitely does.
Where we start with this?
Because you decided that this is important.
I do agree.
This is a very important topic to talk about.
Where should we start with?
You know, we use it for safety reasons.
So
Maybe the effects of
basically outside businesses.
Are you talking about, you know,
yeah, in
terms of, you know, cause like right here, I mean, we come here downtown wassa.
We got all these businesses here downtown and a lot of folks will use the salt because people are walking around and they don't want to slip and fall down it.
And there feels like there's some sort of a responsibility for us business owners to be able to make sure the folks are safe as they come in.
But sometimes people use it too much.
Correct.
Yeah.
There's, there's so many issues with this.
And I think that.
For safety, we all use it, right?
We've been told, sure, we salt our sidewalks, so make sure someone doesn't slip and fall.
And for businesses, parking lots and their sidewalks, it is really important.
However, it is having some negative effects.
And the thing that's interesting as well is a lot of these businesses have these big pales of
salt.
I mean, it's almost as
like, how much can we use?
Right.
I mean, it's get out there, the more, it's like the more
that we use the more safe it's gonna be people won't slip but it's not necessary the case number one it takes a very small amount of salt to really do affect
What's below the surface?
It does.
I was surprised at that because really until I started to research this, I had no idea myself.
I used to use way too much myself.
How much
of a small sample does have a real effect?
So a 12 ounce.
cup will treat a 20 foot driveway or 10 sidewalk squares.
So I've done that myself.
I've taken a 12 ounce cup and gone out and spread that over 10 sidewalk squares.
And yeah, it's surprising.
And you know, people also, I think the tendency is to
just kind of throw these handfuls out so you'll have these little piles of a lot of concentrated salt in one area and that's not really spreading it over and that really is the key to spread it out and you don't need nearly as much as we think we
do.
I saw a note in some of the notes that you sent to me saying that one teaspoon of salt, a very small amount of salt can make five gallons of water toxic to freshwater ecosystems.
Yes.
How does that happen?
The problem is that the chlorides, they don't break down.
And so that builds up in the water.
And it's called salinization or salinization syndrome.
And that's what's happening to a lot of our lakes, a lot of our.
water, it becomes instead like ocean water.
And then that's dangerous.
That's damaging to the vegetation, to the fish, to wildlife.
It damages the soil.
High chloride levels can kill plants, kill vegetation, damage the soil.
The salt also can make other pollutants more mobile.
and that spread.
So it's just, it has this effect like throwing a little pebble into the water, right?
And it has this ripple.
These ripples that we see, well, that's what the salt does because of the chlorides in it.
If people say, Hey, I hear what you're saying, but we still need to have waste and work with these sidewalks and the roads and try not to make things dangerous out there.
What is the suggestion that you have in this case?
To really
get out right after a snow.
If we can shovel immediately or as soon after snow as we can, that keeps the sidewalks clear.
The more that we remove the less salt that you need, but also we can put some salt out before, like say if we know it's going to be a freezing rain, you can apply some and we don't need a lot.
Again, I would really encourage people to fill.
that 12 ounce cup and use it that way because then we're much more aware of what we're using.
Also a brine, you can make your own brine and that's what the city is doing now.
They've been using brine and pre-wetting the roads because that really reduces the amount that they need.
You know,
when you talk about the amount that should be used, I think you can almost translate it to when people use salt to eat.
Yeah.
put way too much salt on our food.
And it's like this idea that the more you have, the better tasting it's gonna be.
And
I think it's the
same thing here.
It's like the more salt it's gonna make it safer and all the ice is gonna go away.
That's not the case at all.
That's
what I do
because otherwise I know that I'll probably use too much.
And it's not just the environment as far as the wildlife or fish and plants, but it's also our infrastructure.
And that costs money.
Lots of money.
Yes, exactly.
And then it also inconveniences people too when the infrastructure has to be repaired.
So we really have many, many reasons to really be careful about our use of salt.
And it
doesn't fade away.
That's the thing as well.
As you say, they never break down.
So every bit that you use is there forever, isn't it?
It is and there is the city tends to take the extra snow that they clear and they put it on the property where the farmer's market is in the summer.
And I've had a number of people contact me residents with concerns that the city is piling that snow there and it has salt in it and that's right by the water.
Those are valid concerns.
More with Carol Lukens coming up at 722 here on 98.9 WX.
It is the WXCO morning report, part of mornings with Pat Crite Low on 98.9 WXCO.
I am Chad Holmes and we are continuing our conversation with older person Carol Lukens, also a member of the WASA Sustainability Energy and Environment Committee, talking about snow and ice and salt.
The cost involved with salt on the roads, on the sidewalks, and in the community is a very big number.
Yeah, nationwide $5 billion yearly damage to our infrastructure roads, bridges.
And the thing is, it makes
so much sense.
When you think about what the salt does,
and you think
about the materials that these roads and these bridges are made of, of course, it's going to disintegrate.
I mean, it's sort of a common sense kind of thought that if you use more of that salt, it's just going to grind into that,
and
it's going to weaken the materials, and you'll be forced to, we in Wisconsin, of course, see it all the time with the way the roads that disintegrate so very quickly, and that leads to repairs and costs, and not just the cost of the roads and the bridges, the cost of vehicles.
because
you hit potholes and you hit these areas of the roads that cause damage to the car.
So again, the cost just keeps on multiplying in different ways.
Exactly.
Yes.
It just affects so many things and really ultimately our pocketbooks.
And the one other thing that residents can do that I didn't mention before is sand as well.
So apply the salt very sparingly, but also using sand and the city does put out.
barrels of sand.
So residents are able to do that.
They can help themselves to that and that gives traction.
That's one thing that I've been doing more at home to is trying to use more of that.
And also something that's just worrisome because so many folks deal with community wells and the water,
the drinking
water.
When you just think about it, it just makes so much sense that if you use all this salt and again, the runoff, wherever it goes, it's going to affect that as well.
And it's a rather significant percentage, isn't
it?
It is.
39%
of Wisconsin community wells have exceeded recommended sodium levels for people on low salt diets.
I mean, that's, I mean, that's an incredibly high number when you think of two out of five, basically.
And again, you start thinking about cost factors.
You start thinking about healthcare costs, because
all of a
sudden, you're getting more people that are sick because of this that occurs again.
There's so many layers to it,
isn't
it?
I mean, you start off by thinking, well, we just don't want to slip and fall down in front of a business.
And then
it
goes from A to B to C to D.
Yes, yes, it does.
It's throwing that pebble in the water and those ripple effects.
So if there are enough people that have health conditions,
that they need to be careful of the salt that they consume.
If it's in our drinking water, yeah, it's just kind of permeates everything.
And frankly, when you think about here in this community, we've kind of learned in different ways how difficult and how costly it can be to clean up water.
Yes.
I mean, so again,
every time that you try to maybe be ahead of the curve on it, something like this occurs, then you'll be back into another situation where all of a sudden you're going to be forced to spend a lot.
money and trying to clean up a water supply.
It's not easy when it comes to salt, is it?
No, it's not.
And 50, if we, we think about it, 50 Wisconsin rivers and streams and one lake are already impaired.
And, you know, we're also known for, you know, our water, right?
With, with tourism and things like that.
So it, it's
We really do need to be aware of it and, you know, becoming aware is the first step.
But yeah, I mean, it's it's permanent.
So the best thing that we can do is prevent it.
And you talked about the fact that the city is taking steps.
And that's a good thing, isn't it?
I mean, in terms of the
city doing some some different ways of trying to reduce the salt use.
And you said it by.
different ways.
Are you
seeing that being embraced at the city level at the level that you like it to be?
Yeah, I think I've been very very pleased.
I actually took a tour.
of the streets department a few years ago when I first became Alder and they have these huge, huge containers of the brine but they're very aware because of course, you know, whatever they can also do to conserve it helps down the road with the work then that they have to do with repairing the infrastructure and, you know, with costs of everything having risen, you know, they also
You know don't have as many employees, you know, I mean it's just they so they I've been really really pleased at how much
the city has really embraced this, the employees there.
That's fantastic.
As we put in our show notes, so you'll be able to hear the podcast of our discussion.
We'll also have some resources.
You got some interesting links that people
can find a little
bit more on how to take up.
And again, they don't have to be, really, I think small steps do add up.
They really do.
They really do.
And I think that...
I've been really pleased to see quite a few people just even as I walk my own neighborhood.
you know, not using as much.
And that's really wonderful.
Make those real wheelbarrows full of salt.
Right.
Exactly.
It's so
easy to do too much in that case.
You just, you know, the more it's going to make it, no, no, no, it's, you don't have to do that.
There are different ways to make sure that you can walk safely after a little bit of a mixture of the snow or the freezing rain or whatever it may be.
Anything we're forgetting before we wrap
up.
I would, I would just say that
the Wisconsin SaltWise program, and that is one of the links that you'll have, but that is a really good resource for this.
And so that's something that people can look up and...
We can learn how to make our own brine, too, through the Conservation Foundation, which is another link that you'll have.
But I found that to be quite interesting.
Yeah, so check it out.
Again, once the program ends this morning, we will put up our podcast and then have show notes discussing our discussion here today.
And you can find out more.
And again, just take those steps because, again, it takes everybody in order to try and help the environment and also, again, help our budgets.
I mean, again, we talk about the different layers.
There are different layers.
If you're not spending all that money on road construction and bridge construction, there are different ways you can use that to help people's lives as well.
Exactly.
We can do it.
We can.
And as we
start this winter, and hopefully it's not going to be a winter that lasts forever, but we're going to have to
deal with
it for a few more months.
Think about this as we continue.
Carol,
again,
it's always good to see you, and we'll catch you again real soon.
Thank you, likewise.
Thanks so much.
Absolutely.
Carol Lukens joined us here this morning.
We're going to take a quick break and then come back with more as we continue on this Friday morning.
It is the WXCO morning report on 98.9.
you
And good morning, once again, everyone, and welcome back.
It is the WXCO morning report, part of mornings with Pat Crite Low here on 98.9 WXCO, online at wxco.fm mobile devices and Alexa by searching WXCO and on the Civic Media app.
Currently eight degrees is the temperature here in downtown Wausau at our studios at the corner of Washington Street and North Third Street in downtown Wausau.
The time is 753 Friday morning, the 19th day of December of 2025.
Ian Walsh across the way and across the table.
Paul Miklick talking about some Wisconsin sports heading into the weekend.
Good morning.
Good morning, Chad.
Ian, good morning.
A little cold out there this morning.
A little
nippy.
It is.
A little nippy.
Yeah.
Very good.
Well, big weekend.
Always a big weekend.
Big, big, big.
Oh, yeah.
Let's talk, I mean, a week ago, everything was looking rosy for the Packers and then.
You know, they were up almost by double digits.
It looked like they were on their way to another win, and then all of a sudden the injuries started popping up, and now they're back in the same situation they were two weeks ago going into the bear game, but not quite as healthy.
Yeah, I mean, they're going in, we talked about last week, the fact was that they had to win one of those two games.
Denver, and that's counting that you're going to win the two games that you
You have on, you know, the Baltimore and at Minnesota, which is, and both of those are not Gimmies either.
So you're, this is why during the regular season, when you lose against Cleveland, when you lose against Carolina at home, those games are going to, you have to make hay when the sun's up because you don't know when this is going to happen.
And.
the worst injuries anybody will tell you the worst injuries are injuries that happen inside the game because it's hard to you have a game plan and you cannot adjust it's just a fact and and so when they started losing i mean i'm talking they're losing five six guys that's a lot of guys and to say like the next man up thing that's fine and dandy but that's not reality inside the game and when they when he threw that pick when they went for the home run they were trying to put the game away
And when they went through it, the whole thing changed.
And quite frankly, our season probably changed at that point in time.
Yeah, I mean, boy, I mean, offensively, it looked like they were unstoppable.
And then all of a sudden they were unstoppable.
I mean, you call plays, you know offense.
Was it just the injuries or was there something else there?
I thought, I don't know.
It didn't feel quite right to me again for the layman looking for the outside.
I thought they kind of Didn't continue exactly the way that they got to the to the lead where they scored the first four times.
They had the football
and This is gonna sound crazy coming from each ad.
Everyone's got a pretty good defense They're they're they're paid money to play good defense and
They, you take Watson out and you slide everybody down a slot to a different position, number two to a number one and number two to a number, or three to two, so forth.
and your right tackle is out, and I thought he, the sub did okay.
But the reality of it is, Tom is one of the best in the business.
All right, so at that point in time, the Packers were playing without one of the best tight ends in the league.
They were playing without one of the best right tackles in the league.
They were playing without their top receiver.
So is their offense not going to probably be as sharp as it was?
And you got your running back that's banged up.
And everybody's banged up.
I understand that but it's inside the game and I just think that it just kind of Denver started doing some stuff We went for the long shot didn't hit it kind of got a discobibulated and those things happen It's just a shame because you felt like if they would have put together a drive there and even scored a field goal
to get up to 12 that they were going to be in good shape and, you know, take four or five minutes off that clock and things would have been a little different.
What about tomorrow night?
Chicago played very well after the loss to Green Bay.
They shut down Cleveland.
They did what they were supposed to do against Cleveland at home.
Obviously for them, this is a huge opportunity.
They have not been in this position for quite a long time.
They know the Packers and don't have Michael Parsons this time around who was such a big factor just two weeks ago as you look at this matchup It just feels like the whole vibe of this game has changed very quickly
Yeah, I mean right now the Packers got to worry about one game at a time What they got to do is get healthy and try to still make the playoffs
and that's it I mean
What are they a game and a half ahead of Detroit that doesn't seem like a big margin right now even with three games to go They lose this one and they got a win to the last two.
They're very fortunate Detroit lost to the Rams last week.
Yes, that's that's that's
I think it the perspective changes from winning the counter the division to Let's make sure we get in the playoffs and then you never know what happens and you can get hot and the quarterback gets hot because it's a quarterback play could carry a Tomorrow is going to be difficult.
I don't know
how in the world, you tell me how
the Packers are favored.
And Chicago, you're exactly right.
And Chicago in the second half a couple of weeks ago, they moved the ball.
That was with Parsons.
Right.
They moved the ball consistently in that half.
Yes.
I mean, so, so Green Bay number one, even with Parsons would have been there.
I think they would have had to look, Hey, what was going on here?
And, and, and see what the Bears were doing.
And now it's without Parsons.
You have to figure a way to try to slow down that offense that is capable of throwing the ball very well, capable of running the ball very well.
It really, it looks like an offense that is really starting to hit its right.
And Williams is going to be probably out, I would assume.
And he was
playing as one of the highest safety spots in the conference, mirroring the NFL.
So it's not just the front side of that defense.
It's the back side.
And the back side was kind of iffy as it was.
I did think McKinney, he came out and I thought he played his best game.
He obviously missed those couple of interceptions he should have, but I thought he played, which was a good sign.
Well, that's something as well.
They cannot afford to let any opportunities for those.
Momentum plays to go by you can't you guys steal possessions?
Yes You have to make sure that you maximize every opportunity in a game like that or otherwise they're not gonna win the football game Correct, and I think it'll be I think it'll be very tough anyways, but you know, that's why they play the game coaching
coaching.
Let's see what we've done.
This is this is it.
You've been watching this guy.
So let's see what they do.
Let's see what they do.
We'll come back with more with Paul Mickley at 822 coming up next.
It's an information update.
And then another segment of the final day with with the pack right low here on WXCO.
And welcome back.
It is the WXCO morning report part of mornings with Pat Crichtlow here on 98.9 WXCO.
We will have the number for the day quiz coming up with Ian Welsh because he's 0 for 3 this week and we missed one day.
So I don't know.
Maybe we should do two quickies at the very end to give him a chance to get to five.
But Paul Mickley across the way.
It's not good basketball for us fans who
Especially those of us who like the teams from Milwaukee The Bucks and Marquette's because the last two nights they both were playing at Pfizer forum and both times very quiet crowd were leaving the the exits and Let's start.
Let's actually talk with the college.
Think about this.
We could have three teams lose at Pfizer forum.
I mean the Badgers play there at night And that's a that's a realistic possibility.
It is a realistic possibility That's not a good thing that you're talking about college basketball for the state of Wisconsin
What about college schools?
What about the Badgers?
Badgers and Marquette, I think Marquette's put a fork in them because they're just not that good.
How about the Badgers?
Do you think that they have a shot?
I mean, because they've been hot and cold.
When they've lost, they've been pretty ugly.
And then they've won a few games.
They look pretty good.
I mean, we talked about them last week because they got, that was the worst loss.
Yeah, they haven't played in a while.
They haven't played since the last time we talked and worst loss.
Great Guards history 30 points against Nebraska and so that's there's a problem.
There is definitely the sway of things of Seeing what they're going to do tonight.
It's gonna be a big game.
They have to get this one and put that into their You know resume so down the road that they have a good non-conference win because otherwise
Who's they be Providence, right?
Yeah, that that would be Because the Marquette game that they won is not going to look very good.
Unfortunately on the resume So they got a they got to build that up I know it's a long ways away But the reality of it is the games that happen now do affect them, you know in March
absolutely.
Oh, I mean they all they all truly all do count Bucks last night fell to Toronto.
Yannis talked before the game
Didn't really say a lot, in my opinion.
He's trying to claim that he doesn't really know what his agent is talking about with the Bucks.
I mean, come on.
I mean, come
on.
You don't believe him?
I'm sure he has no idea.
No idea.
None, zero.
His agent is just freelancing it here.
Wherever his agent wants him to go, that's where he's going to be.
He has no problem, whatever's happening.
But it looks like he'll be out, I think, until after the start of the new year.
Bucks fall, now there are about 11 and 17.
Yish
17 16 17 17 17 because they
were 11 and 16 going into last
I was trying to forget that Brooklyn game from Sunday because that was ugly.
That was ugly go bad basketball team and they lose by 45 points
To a team that's trying to lose.
That's what's one of the bucks that yeah
Kuzma.
Yes, he did and he's right.
I mean there that's that's a fact that they're I don't want to say they're trying to lose but He said that word but they're they're definitely
Like not put together to beat somebody by 45.
Oh Is there hope for the Bucks?
I mean when Yanis comes back, do you think that there's a chance that do they have I know that you know, I think I mean Porter's a good player and you said it to me earlier that if well Yanis will make him even better, but he's done a good job when he's been out there Is there is there a way if again?
It's one of those situations where you have to hope all these guys almost play out there
Peak peak and even then it's not gonna be easy.
They're KP J and I've said this from the second that he got on there He he is there probably second best playmaker behind Yanis and when I say playmaker he can create his own shot shots for others
the thing about the box massively need that That's one of the problems that they have.
I mean, I think the average NBA team has
more explosive and better playmakers in more positions than the Bucks.
The Bucks are just limited in certain positions.
At the end of the day, they got a lot of role-players.
Yeah, yeah.
Green's a role-player.
Trent's a role-player.
Prince, when he was, I mean, I don't think that was a, Portis is a role-player.
And Portis might be their third best player when he's on.
Yeah, and the thing is, he's very
up and down.
He plays better at home.
He feeds off that crowd, and that's a fact.
I mean, he just, he feeds off them.
If you look at his big games, he has huge games at home.
But you need the guy to be... Well, you need to do on the road, too.
I understand that.
But I'm just saying that he plays better at home.
So when at home, you got to, he's your third best player.
And on the road, he's not, unfortunately.
And that's not going to cut it when you're trying to win games.
They are in a tenth seed, right?
Yeah, I know it's actually be hard to get out of the 10 seat I think because the people behind them are all in tank mode basically
well that If anything if anything what they got as a Bucks fan with Yanis coming back If they're trade them you're gonna get something or you just want them back so you could do something with them because right now you're just sitting here in limbo and they're kind of non-existent right now what they can think is it's Christmas number one and number two
Like that 45 point loss happened when the Packard's Abaco was going on.
So, you know, there's a lot of stuff that's taken that light on it.
Real fast, let's do it Ian.
Let's do two quickies here to give you a chance to wrap up the week with at least one right and maybe even a passing grade.
How many minutes of fame, we are said to have these many minutes of fame once in our lifetime.
Andy Warhol quote.
Is the correct answer 10?
15 or 20 15 I know this one 15 so you got
that one, right?
Okay, and also Henry the eighth had multiple wives how many Henry the eighth how many wives did Henry the eighth have six wives eight wives or ten wives I Know this one also because there's actually a musical
base on this.
I
know that
OK,
how many?
The answer
is six.
It is six.
So you get two right today, so you get two out of five for the week.
You pulled one out of the fire.
Like I said, the pressure really does help.
There you go.
We need to take him on the road.
That's a great day.
He can go on the road.
He can go on the road home anywhere.
There you go.
He can take
that.
He was good on Sally's show last week, too.
Oh, well.
Oh, yeah, I was.
I was.
Ian, congratulations.
Thank you, Chad.
Have a good weekend.
You too.
Have a good weekend.
We'll
be back.
You too.
Monday.
And we'll talk to you then.
Stick around.
More of Pat Crite low coming up next here on 98.9 WXCO.
