Election Shockwaves and Grassroots Grit

Welcome back to What's Going On with Earl Ingram.

It is always a privilege and an honor to have my very special guest and good friend and longtime contributor to What's Going On with Earl Ingram, the one and only Dr. Robert Craig, Executive Director of Citizen Action.

Good morning to you, my friend.

How you doing?

I'm tired, but...

I'm still here after a long election night.

This is the morning after the primary.

For those

of you listening

later.

You know, one thing for certain, you in the business line of business you are in, you are used to these long late nights during elections.

Yeah, but being like I was at the Hong victory party or watch party in Madison and it was not a victory, but

That was a huge mob scene.

That was unusual when you have that grassroots campaign.

That was quite a press.

That was not the usual state event in a hotel ballroom.

So let's get right at it.

This election or this, you know, primary was witnessed and watched very closely all over the nation.

And every news outlet, national news outlet was on top of this election.

What are your thoughts?

Well, Wisconsin's used to that because in our crazy 18th century electoral college system, we're one of the seven states that determines who's president, right?

So we're used to

Heavy scrutiny, in fact, maybe we've gotten used to it so much that we expect it.

Not all states get this much attention.

But yeah, we got into the narrative this time about strong progressives and democratic socialists challenging more establishment Democrats and defeating a wide range of incumbents in York and Colorado.

and winning an open seat Senate primary in Michigan last week, for example.

And there was also a congressional race in Michigan where the same thing happened last week.

And so with Francesca Hong's surprising and meteoric rise, because believe you me, I can't think of anyone who predicted

when she entered the race as just as a sitting state representative with probably less name recognition than anyone in the race other than perhaps Joel Brennan and Missy Hughes, but the others former Lieutenant Governor and U.S.

Senate Democratic nominee Mandela Barnes, a sitting Lieutenant Governor, Milwaukee County executive, which is, you know, the largest county in the in the state, David Crawley.

And as Sin State said her, that her district is nested within Keldoroy's, but she showed how grassroots organizing can only rock you to the top.

But it's the point where the polling was showing what obviously wasn't there or wasn't real, a 20 plus point lead.

But it's still a remarkable achievement because she did not run the judicial campaign.

She did not go and raise a ton of money.

and spend mostly, most of your time dialing for dollars and doing setup events and then putting it all on TV.

She did a very different model and she, and quite, and so we have to say that she almost won, is miraculous.

Would you have said that a Democrat socialist would be the front runner going in in a Democrat primary in Wisconsin and that it's an upset that she didn't win?

I mean, that is still remarkable.

We shouldn't let David Crawley's rather surprising upset get in the way of how surprising the whole Francesca Haugh experience is and how it fits in to what Democratic voters are saying they want all over the country.

You know, Dr. Craig, even with this outcome, the fact that there is this panic in this nation about

Socialists Democratic socialists and people seem to be panic-stricken By that and when you talk about socialists and socialism and in the definition of it and what it means I don't think people really understand the definition of Socialism and what it means to the average everyday person who's left behind in this nation, right?

Socialism basically means we're not going to allow you to just take control over the average person and the average person has an opportunity to be included in what's happening in the society.

What's wrong with that, Dr. Craig?

I don't see where that's... I think they've defined what that is and terrified many American average everyday people who don't know that it's sometimes in our interest.

as average everyday people that there's somebody who's looking out for us.

Well, it's very contested ground and rarely in politics in any country does what actual political philosophy as studied by academics

and

people who write deeply on this is versus what it has represented politically, right?

And I think it cuts both ways for a lot of people and it trends younger.

But a lot of people who are not, you know, in their 20s, democratic socialism came to mean in this election for those who were not deep philosophical democratic socialists, simply that you were for upending the current system, that you would fight harder and that you would make sure we got things done.

And I think there was a range of how deep that democratic socialism was, understanding its principles.

But you're absolutely right.

In principle, democratic socialism is social security, Medicare.

which Ronald Reagan warned would lead to Tolotarianism.

If we had Medicare, it was the first step on the slippery slope towards Tolotarianism.

Universal free public education, first K-8, then K-12, which our country invented in the 19th century.

That is socialistic, okay?

And really, all we're talking about here because everyone, even Republicans, think there's a role for government, right?

You don't just have

a complete private industry free for all, right?

That there are certain things that the government has to do.

And on the Democratic side, it's simply a range, right?

It is how the balance between private industry and what the government needs to provide, where that balance is.

So it's a difference between Obamacare

which is regulated private insurance that you have a right to sign up to and get subsidies for versus Medicare for All, where the coverage is just public coverage, right?

That's the range.

But no one's saying, just leave it to industry and everything will be fine, even Republicans.

So it certainly seems clear, Earl, when we've had a massive redistribution of wealth the last 50 years.

And we have a situation where

three quarters of the American public is worried about affording the basics.

And third of Wisconsinites and over 60% of African Americans in Wisconsin do not make enough money to afford the basics.

Let's call it survival wage, right?

Because we have monopoly pricing, because we've

Over the last 50 years, stopped doing antitrust and allowed these massive monopolies to develop that then set the price.

And we've allowed them to suppress wages.

And we've allowed them to rig the tax code so that the wealthy people are getting most of the academic gain already, get even more.

We don't redistribute back to the tax code through a progressive income tax.

And so we've reached a breaking point where people are demanding

that we need to afford the basics.

And you hear commentators last night on CNN, MSNOW, right, or even the New York Times talking about the importance of affordability message.

Actually, affordability message without affordability action people can tangibly feel is going to further delegitimize and undermine democracy.

And that's why anyone who wins under these conditions, and it's David Crawley, who will be the standard bearer

He needs to think long and hard that he needs more than good messaging.

He needs good policy to do that.

He has to take control away from these monopolies that are controlling the price of health care, the price of energy, the price of food, you name it.

And also he needs to raise the minimum wage to $20, which to his credit he does support, but he has to fight for that and get it through, right?

And so otherwise we get the same cycle and some people turn towards false.

um uh false prophets that is maga folks who blame someone else who blame marginal people who say it's immigrants fault who say it's apparently trans teenagers fault you know that all of this is happening or you know or black and brown folks in the big cities like Milwaukee and Milwaukee is now going to be so we're good this is very interesting because the whole

Troubles of Milwaukee County government and it's under funding are now going to be put on David Crawley's doorstep by Republican dark money.

You won't watch and they will racialize

it.

You know, you know, Dr Craig, all I can continue to go back to is the media in the face of all of this.

And so instead of addressing the real issues that.

everyday people are dealing with.

They started asking questions about, well, did you say that Thanksgiving should be done away with?

So why is these scare tactics?

Well, she's going to do away with Thanksgiving.

Well, she can't do away with Thanksgiving.

And I'm watching even national news talking about Thanksgiving.

Well, did you say that Thanksgiving should be done away with?

in the face of all the things that people are dealing with in this nation, the fact that the media wants to focus on things that I think are irrelevant.

So if she did say, and really to be quite frank with you, some of the things she said about Thanksgiving, and we're just true, but to make that the number one issue in a race,

when people are struggling the way they are in this society, Dr. Craig, I shake my head sometimes when I'm hearing even on national news outlets, the foolishness that they're, and the things that they're talking about that don't matter a hill of beans to people who are struggling every day to survive.

Look, even the additional media in this attention age, social media age,

it wants clickbait.

So they don't do the hard work of the serious digging in stories.

And so you're right, it distorts things.

I had to tell you, in the social media age, and we're well into it now, a lot of people have said a lot of stuff on social media.

It's a place where people vent, right?

And something bad happens and they make statements, right?

Off the cuff.

They're not thinking about poll testing it, not thinking,

Francesca Hong wrote many of these things when she was running a restaurant, right?

Had a food service worker.

And as many people do, we're saying they're all disqualified now because they said stuff that could be made fodder of.

Can we seriously talk about what she is running on and what her actual record was in the state assembly, right?

Because she has a very serious record of significant bills that she authored or co-authored.

We worked on a number of them with her at Citizen Action at Wisconsin, the organization I lead.

And the media doesn't do that and they, and they overdo polling too because polling is easy, right?

And they, polling is getting harder and harder.

It's very clear.

We had a 12 point error rate in Michigan.

It was even greater here in Wisconsin because we had a poll that came out Thursday.

So, and here's the problem with polling.

They have to predict

what they think a repetitive sample is of the actual electorate that we voting.

And if they're off on that or they can't get responses from a whole sample, then they create distorted numbers.

And but this is what the media covers.

Here's the problem we have right now.

People did know because of the campaign she ran that Francesca Hong is the only caddy that wants to pause the data centers and they're wildly unpopular.

And it's an issue beyond the data centers.

It is the data centers are an issue because

of people's fears about AI being dangerous, taking away people's jobs, concerns that this massive energy use will raise the energy prices, it will.

That it will mass increase pollution, it will.

That it will, if we do it the way we energies and big tech wants to do it, blow a hole in the climate crisis, where it looks like we're on track for the warmest year in recorded record in 2026.

wildfires and getting worse, all of that.

And so there's a real revulsion.

And then there's just the specter of big tech coming in to your community, negotiating a deal and putting this giant thing there without your approval, right?

So it's come to reflect the corruption of our system and the lack of democracy.

And so that's partly what got Francesca Hong to the top, but I'm telling you, because of media coverage and because of where this election goes,

Precious few voters, even though know what David Crawley's major policy positions are.

I mean, there was some talking points.

He's for good things, right?

He's for Apple Pie and baseball and Chevrolet.

You know what I mean?

The issue equivalent

of

that.

But that was not really discussed.

The policy nuances between them were not really discussed, right?

And what this became is, it became a referendum on electability.

Partly because we think $3 million in dark money was spent.

And Earl, that is probably money from big tech and fossil fuel utilities.

We may never be able to prove that, right?

They expect something in return.

They didn't want a Francesca Hong holding up the data centers.

And then she isn't saying they have to be banned permanently, but her standards were serious and real.

And I don't think they want to meet them, Earl.

They want to do this on the cheap, right?

As much as possible and put the cost on to us.

That's what they do.

And so, we're in a situation now, and here's why I get to an electability role that's very important.

Everyone in the pro-democracy coalition, the only major party that's pro-democracy now is the Democrats, right?

So it's a broader big tent is...

understandably concerned about what happens if MAGA candidates win.

What does Tom Tiffany do?

Not only has he run this thing to the ground, he probably tries to throw the 2020 election to whoever the Republican successor to Trump is.

JD Vance is the frontrunner right now, right?

And so that's serious, but it's possible to spook people into these ideas about what is or is not electable.

We will see.

in November, and it's very important that David Crawley win, but we don't know how electable David Crawley really was.

We just know enough people were made to fear Francesca Hong as unelectable, and it was partly the ads, partly all of the media coverage of Thanksgiving and other social media posts, and lack of seriousness.

Journalists get extra first-man protections, because they're supposed to be a bulwark of democracy, certainly big corporate journalism.

It's questionable how well they do that let alone right wing journalism right which is which is in the tank.

But so fear one in some way is but barely this was basically a tie race and I think what's really important we can I do think if you fear something bad.

too much, you miss the broader perspective that democracy needs to deliver for people, and that's why we're in this situation.

And you won't beat them permanently unless you deal with that.

But here's what you have to say.

You can't just say, and this is the way Tony Evers governs.

Tony Evers believed in, I win, therefore, I make the decisions, and I don't have to consider my whole electorate.

This is a 50-50 Democratic electorate, where it was basically a tie.

And so I think it's very important that David Crawley try to run a kind of campaign and adopt policy positions that will excite the base that was behind Francesca Hong and excite that volunteer base.

And if he just runs in the other half lane, which isn't all moderate, a lot of it is just, I fear her electability so David seems safer, right?

They didn't actually embrace more moderation.

that's a misnomer, then it's a mistake.

So he needs to move to try to, to try to, and quite frankly, the issues that excite France-Base Earl, they're issues that the other side wants too.

Everyone wants healthcare to be affordable and accessible for everyone, and they're major things the state can do.

And actually,

in our questionnaire and our endorsement process for citizen action, our interviews with David Crawley, his participation in our forum, governor's forum, he embraced the whole healthcare platform we've been fighting for, Earl.

So now he needs to campaign on it and then he needs to deliver on it, right?

So there are opportunities here.

So Dr. Craig, nobody can argue that prior to the county executive coming back in this race,

He was polling at 7%.

So now you got all of these people who inside of a three week period of time decided that he's the right guy for this position.

And I would ask the question, and listen, I've always been a supporter, excuse me, of the county executive.

He will tell you this, from the time he first ran for office, I would have him on

on my shows and I, and I constantly said that he was my favorite elected official.

He will tell you that.

So I'm not a guy who was here now trying to bash him.

That's not the case.

And he's, and he's a good friend of mine, but, but we have to understand that he was pulling 7% something happened.

Somebody decided a group of people decided.

Now had they done that in the beginning, Dr. Craig, and supported them from the start of this, I wouldn't be saying what I'm saying now.

But something happened, an organized group of people came together and made this happen, right?

Now they want something, right?

They didn't do this at just...

because he's a good guy, which he is, but they expect to get something in return.

That's the way this game works.

Is it safe to say that?

It's very safe to say that.

So there's $3 million in dark money, and I think it's probably big tech and fossil fuel utilities, and maybe others as well, and maybe healthcare interests, right?

They want something.

A lot of the people that push this, certain political consultants,

who make money in this business, they have a stake in big money politics as usual, because all this money pouring in, they get it cut when they do the ads, when they do the digital, and they do the mail, and they do everything else that they do, right?

And so Francesca Hong was an exceptional threat to their business model.

She was doing it without employing all those folks, right?

Doing it with volunteers and young, excited people.

That is a threat.

Here's the problem, right?

This isn't like Pizza Gate because you heard Governor Evers especially trying to say, oh, there's no establishment.

Hey, I'm a small town.

I'm not I'm not the established with like no one comes from a small town to become a part of the establishment.

There's not one establishment, but it's not Pizza Gate.

This was all in the journal Sentinel for anyone who cared to read it.

You had the

Highly placed democratic strategists saying they're trying to talk David Crawley into getting into the race and David and Governor Evers into endorsing him and then it all happens, right?

And then everything starts flowing and the money starts flowing everything else.

So here's the problem that Impression of corruption, right?

That is what's undermining democracy

and leading to an opportunity for MAGA because people are so disenchanted.

So that is a liability going in.

So David Crawley needs to show he's beholden to no one, in my opinion.

It needs to show that in the positions he takes and the way he campaigns.

He can't just say, oh, there's no establishment, nothing to see here.

He can't keep saying, I'm not part of an establishment because I'm a black man.

I mean, we have gotten to a point.

We still have terrible.

racially equality in this country.

We've gotten to a point where black people are, there are black people who are part of the establishment.

Sorry, Don and Brazil is part of the establishment, right?

And, and Clarence Thomas is part of the Republican establishment.

So let's get over that.

That's not credible.

You need to show by your positions and your independence and your fire and your willingness to confront and disagree with those interests that it isn't true.

There have been plenty of candidates

great reform candidates over American history who were seen as corrupt going in for various reasons, maybe fair, maybe not, or improve themselves otherwise.

And I think you're

right.

David could do that, but he needs to choose to do it.

He has the talent, and I think he has the

insight.

So let me ask you, Dr. Gray, is it feasible to believe

that he can separate himself from those things going into the election because he's going to need even more money because Tom Tiffany is five million eight million whatever it is he'll have whatever amount of money it is he's going to need and David Crowley is going to need even more money from To in order to win this this gubernatorial race from the same people that we're talking about can is it

Is it plausible to believe that he can separate himself from that?

As we move towards the election

I think he must And I think now that he's the nominee and there's an existential threat to democracy of having Tom Tiffany in the governor's office in the battleground state Not to mention the damage she will do here

to our

public school system the health care and everything else right that that

the Democratic major donors in establishment have to back him and they better back him.

But he's going to get attacked in hot to big tech in the data centers by Tom Tiffany, which is ridiculous.

We know

Tom Tiffany is nothing.

But people voted for Trump.

They need to take on the big interest.

and drain the swamp.

I love the drain the swamp because we need wetlands.

We're not supposed to be draining them anymore, but no one displayed that.

And so I think he absolutely must.

And I think he needs to demonstrate to the other half of the Democratic electorate.

He needs to inspire some of those Francesca Hong volunteers.

He certainly needs to revote and not become disenchanted and not think the establishment took it away from us.

We worked our tail off Francesca Hong, my God.

I mean, she needs a two year vacation.

She worked so hard, but all those volunteers worked incredibly hard.

They're demoralized.

I think the thing is, I think David Crawley, this is a matter of the reason Fran was in a position to win is because she read the electorate better than everyone else, right?

She saw what people are demanding, more fight and they're demanding.

We actually get things done, not make excuses, right?

And so,

David is a very talented retail politician.

I think David is about I can't name anyone better That is to say when he's talking to people he's meeting them in public.

He

is

really good

Very charming guy.

Very charming guy.

He's a good public speaker and a very bright man very capable I think he needs to read the moment and to read the moment needs to read the electorate

And he needs to be, he needs to be himself, but he needs to adopt a lot of what Francesca Hong did, take steps in that direction in order to unify and energize the party, because boy, the MAGA people are going to energize their people and the peasants with pitchforks are coming out for Tom Piffing.

So last thing, Dr. Craig, do you think that because of what's at stake in this election, that happens, that they have to

Marshall, the forces, which is what has to happen.

Do you think that there's a chance that this won't happen?

I know I don't.

I think the forces and the money will be mobilized.

What I don't know is we'll we'll have to Democrat based the media moralized because they think there was that corruption took place in the establishment of those wins and he isn't going to do anything.

He has to prove that isn't true.

I think he has the talent to do it.

He has to see what the situation calls for.

I do think you don't have to be a democratic socialist to be serious about being a fighter and serious about making democracy work and serious about not letting the corporate monopolies dominate the capital as they have for years.

You can't make healthcare affordable.

You won't take them on.

You can't make energy affordable if you won't take them on.

And David needs to see that.

So the politics he came up

in many ways is different than the politics now.

And the measure of a candidate, a politician, a leader in many ways is, are they able to meet the moment by seeing what it is?

He has the talent.

The question is, will he have the insight and vision?

That I can't say, only he knows that for sure.

So that's a question about, in his heart, will he do this?

Or will he run a playbook?

Like Governor Evers playbook is completely outdated.

It's like running the single T offense and football, which is an old offense from the 1940s and 50s.

If you're not

Dr. Craig, I wish I had more time, but we'll reconnect.

Got a lot more to talk about.

It's great to see you again.

Always great to have conversation and dialogue with you.

Always a pleasure to talk to you, Earl.

Thanks for everything you do and for your voice.

Alright, thank you.

The one and only Dr. Robert Crick.

That's a wrap for what's going on with Earl Ingram.

See you next time.