Autocrats Always Signal Their Intentions (Hour 1)

From the Civic Media World Headquarters in Madison, Wisconsin, it's the Todd Alba Show.

And now, pursuing truth wherever it may lead, here's your host, Todd Alba.

I'm Cross Wisconsin on the Civic Media Radio Network.

and streaming worldwide on the Civic Media app.

Good afternoon, everybody.

Ta-da!

Along with Mr. Aaron Zomer is our producer and engineer.

It is six minutes past the hour of two o'clock on this Wednesday, October 22nd, 2025.

It's a great day to be a Wisconsinite, and it is... Pump Day!

That's right.

Welcome, everybody, made up midway through the week.

Glad to have you along with the World Headquarters.

Intersection of State and Fairchild, a beautiful downtown Madison...

Nice day of fall day, very fallish day, breezy, as my grandparents used to say raw, raw out there, blustery winds and chilly, but it's fall, it's fall.

So we're all good, Zommer's, how you doing today?

Doing all right, you know, we got the fall allergies and full swing.

So that's not super fun.

Lots of sneezing.

You could have salivary stones.

God, I hope not.

I don't wish it upon anybody.

No, it's a beautiful, beautiful, beautiful day.

Before I forget, shout out to our good friend.

My, I say my longest, the only person who's known me longer than my mother is Rob Wheat because our mothers were in the maternity ward together.

And I was born on October 21st.

He was born on October 22nd.

So I'm the old man of the pair.

So I have a birthday to Rob Wheat today.

He and Scandin Jeff Daniels, and I went to see that new film

No Packers, No Life at the Marcus Theater here in Madison.

The second time I got to see it, great film.

Encourage people to get out and see it if it's a find where it's playing on marcustheaters.com, at least another week.

So go out and see it in theaters.

No Packers, No Life before it disappears.

It is Wednesday and as per usual, we check in.

What was blustery upon the Lake Wissota?

We'll find out.

The host of mornings of Pat Critello every morning from six until nine across this fine network, Mr. Pat Critello joins us from the banks, the shores of Lake Wissota.

How are you?

Happy birthday to you.

Am I on time?

Am I

late?

Oh, you're fine.

Thank you.

I

appreciate that.

You're in voice.

I am not.

I welcome you.

I welcome you to the Septigenarian Club here.

Trig V and I. Welcome you in.

Thank you.

You've always been the youngest of us all and yet mentally far and away the oldest.

That's great.

Due to your wisdom.

Of course.

Of course.

Happy birthday.

Thank you.

Yeah.

It's it's odd to be on the the downside of 50 now at 56 rather than the upside of 50.

But hey,

better than the alternative.

56.

You punk.

All right.

I'm

good Todd.

How are you?

I'm OK birthday.

Thank you.

I appreciate it.

My he

does not sound.

You sound a little tired.

Are you all are you OK?

No, I'm fine.

I'm just I've got a little bit of a cold or allergies thing going

on last week.

It was his back this week.

It's cold.

People think I'm older than him.

Excuse me.

I

mean, no.

Exactly right.

Old man.

They're waiting for you.

I know.

Well, I'm glad I'm glad you're here.

My voice is still these goofy.

Salivary or what?

What is it?

Salivary.

Salivary.

Salivary.

Salivary gland stones.

Salivary gland stones.

It's a real thing.

So I've got kidney stones.

I've got salivary stones.

I don't have any gold stones.

But anyway, the line from Gypsy.

You got everybody must get stone.

Can you play a little Bob Dylan in honor of that?

Sure, we can.

Stones everywhere.

There we go.

There.

There you

go

No

much

donage Did you guys see that once ago now, but the Bob Dylan movie when it came out yes

How was it good?

Yeah, I enjoyed it.

And I don't know a ton about Bob Dylan, but I know it was a nice little film showed us what a quirky guy he is from from the very beginning.

I don't know if I'm going to see the Springsteen one.

That's what I was

going to ask, because I was in the theater last night, you know, Packers No Life and the big trailer.

And I really want to see it.

You know things are always kind of hit and miss like there were remember the one about Freddie Mercury Yeah came out and then like a couple of months after that the one about Elton John Yeah, which was a little bit more of a hit and miss and so I'm gonna wait till I hear more about the Springsteen one first.

Are you a

Springsteen fan trick

me?

No But I I do want to go see that movie.

I I respect Bruce Springsteen I think

It just was never really my cup of tea mostly because it was my my high school hockey coach Scott Dickmeyer's cup of tea He was from South St.

Paul and he used to blast

Cadillac ranch and born to run and all kinds of Bruce Springsteen every morning at 5 30 And as you guys know, I don't talk before 10 o'clock and listening to Bruce Springsteen so loud to get us to Yell for the puck was more than I could take

this guy barely talked by 3 p.m.

It's

true

All right, well guys, a couple of topics here to cover today.

In a moment, I want to get to something that Pat most, he is actually a legit journalist.

I kind of dabbled around the edges, but I want to talk about the student newspapers at Indiana and also in Pulaski, Wisconsin.

But before we do that, I want to get both of your thoughts.

And Pat, let's start with you as a former Democratic state senator in the state of Wisconsin.

Interested in your take, and just the quick synopsis.

for those that might not have been with us last or yesterday, I should say.

We had a reporter on Danielle DeClos from the Capitol Times who had a story that ran in the Cap Times on Friday and a focus on the Wisconsin Department of Public Instruction and in particular, Superintendent Jill Underly over 200 cases of teachers, sexual assault, grooming cases, not all quote unquote teachers, some were aides and support staff.

And the thrust of the story is that

that it was, in the Cap Times opinion, difficult to get some of these records.

And secondarily, the disorganization, my word, within DPI of keeping track of this, and that some people were allowed, even before they were criminally charged or the allegations were proven, to stop the investigation, they were allowed, and apparently it's under state law you can, turn in your teacher license,

to stop the investigation, but then in the records at DPI, it does not say why you turned into your license.

And there's concern that should those individuals be known why they turned it in to prevent them from working with children in the future.

And that Dr. Jill Underly refused to sit or take up the invitations from the Capitol Times to sit for this interview.

And then Friday after it was published, Underly, we read some of this yesterday, her response,

was to basically take a page from Trump and attack the reporter and attack the Capitol Times and say they got it wrong.

And she still won't accept invitation to talk to the reporter.

I know we've asked her not in this specific case, but she used to come on our program.

She no longer does.

Back in April, she refused to debate her opponents in the campaign where she got reelected to the state superintendent appointee or the position.

And now coming up tomorrow, there is an assembly hearing.

They're asking under, they don't have subpoena power like Congress, but they're asking her to testify.

And what I'm hearing is that she is leaning towards not appearing.

That's a long setup, but panel, shut up, now let you talk.

From a democratic perspective,

There is the whole story and the tragedy of the allegations here.

Some have already been proven.

But to me, it's about the lack of transparency with this DPI superintendent and DPI in general from simply telling us what's up and defending it.

Yeah, and I can really only comment on that part of it.

I will admit not being fully informed on the substance of the initial report and the allegations.

And so any comments I made would be more about basically finding out more about this.

What do top officials at DPI know, and when did they know it?

And when this topic came up briefly yesterday, and I heard that Jill Underly

declined interview interview opportunities.

I thought that that was a potential mistake that it might have been a matter of wishing the story away.

And, you know, not talking to a reporter who's got some serious questions about an investigation they're doing is rarely is that the best advice.

And the one thing that makes it worse

If you don't talk to a reporter who's genuinely trying to get to the bottom of the story, the one thing that's worse is having to go sit through a kangaroo court of a committee hearing once the politicians jump into this.

I would love to tell you that every legislator on this committee would have only the best interests of the children at heart and to further a quality education.

I can't tell you that.

I can't tell you that half of that room won't have the long knives out.

And, you know, do a whole bunch of filibustering that if you're Jill Underly, you know, if you don't have to sit there, why would you sit there?

So it's always easier to talk to the reporter first, even if the answer is, I don't know, I'll look into it and I'll get back to you.

I agree with what you said about

some of the folks in this committee are just gonna use it for political opportunities.

I said this on this show as well, that now, in my opinion, by not coming forward at being transparent, you're giving Robin Voss the Republicans a greater stage on which to manufacture things and vilify public education as if that needed to be done anymore.

And what disturbs me the most is just this lack of transparency on her part and the lack of coming forward.

Right and and look in 2010 when I was running for reelection to the legislature and lost one of the things that you know was this was remember just prior to act 10 there were all kinds of criticisms about teachers unions and protecting their own and everything and I recall speaking to an educator group and We could see where the tea leaves were in terms of the election that year and I said something rather direct around the lines of you guys have to be the ones most willing to

to expose and kick out the bad apples.

Because if you just circle the wagons every time, you know, that you're not doing anybody any favors.

And I say that because my advice now to Dr. Underly and others would be to the extent that you know about the bad actors, the things that are, you know, that you can prove everything, you had better find a way to make sure people know that they are not going to be put in a position around children any further.

If you look like you're circling the wagons, all I can say is haven't help you.

Yeah, and I just

don't, well, Trigby, I know you're not intimately informed about this story, but just as someone who worked in political communications from a communication standpoint, it just, to me, it doesn't make sense why your boss wouldn't want to, or why a boss, an elected official wouldn't want to be in front on this and trying to drive the narrative.

Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, at the end of the day, not answering makes it look like you have something to hide.

So even if the answer is, I don't know, I'm not sure.

The reality is, I agree with Pat's point 100%.

If the teacher's union is rallying the wagons, circling the wagons, and you have her basically saying, I'm not going to talk to a reporter, and a friendly reporter at that.

from a friendly news source probably, it ends up looking like there's more there there, whether there is there there or not.

And whether she thinks it's a foolish argument or, you know, like, like.

ridiculous is neither here nor there.

She's losing in the court of public opinion.

Yeah, their office claimers spokesperson said they had $600,000 to address this and it got turned down by JFC and the budget committee.

My analogy was, well, hey, so did the Knowles Nelson stewardship fund and they immediately went to the public and said, we need a standalone bill on this.

Why wasn't underlying DPI out in front saying, okay, we didn't get the money and joint finance, but this is what's going on.

That part, I don't understand.

We'll come back, talk more about this, and local news with Pat Critello and Trig Vilsen on Civic Media's ready number.

You ever go

camping in the north woods?

Any woods, as a matter of fact, in Wisconsin on a crisp fall day, you have a campfire, there's kind of that smoke rising through and the...

The smell of dried leaves and a fresh cup of coffee and the sun's coming up and you think, see, this is what Wisconsin's about.

You get that.

And then you

wake up and you realize it's it's overcast.

It's dreary.

It's windy.

There's a wind chill out here.

Why did I let the kids talk me into camping in this tent?

Why didn't I waterproof the tent?

Yeah, there's there's the fantasy and then there's the things that happen.

I was

setting it up to say.

That's what it's like listening to Pat Critell every morning from six until nine.

It makes you feel like it's overcast and rainy and you wonder why did I even do this to begin

with?

Not at

all.

Not at all.

Not at all.

Make sure we have time for this, Patrick.

What do you have coming up on the show this week?

You like to plug, make sure people listen between six and nine.

Oh, my goodness.

That assumes an ability to have a memory longer than a goldfish.

at this point.

We will have our usual gang that includes Chad Holmes from our station in Wausau.

Sean O'Malley will be talking a bit about crypto, the state of Wisconsin's investment board.

betting big on crypto, making a killing and then getting out.

You know, high risk, high reward, I guess.

And of course, Joe's Becky will be along and he was quoted in that, shall we say, interesting New York Times article yesterday all about all the people who don't want Mandela Barnes to run for governor and anybody who heard our show this morning and the clip was already on TikTok and everywhere else.

Earl Ingram heard me talking about that.

And let's just say he

went off on the New York Times reporter who was supposed to call him but didn't for that story.

So for that, go back and listen to us as a podcast on Spotify, but we'll have Joe Specky on tomorrow.

There you go.

That's a tease.

That's a plug.

That's the whole deal.

All

right,

catch.

That's me.

Catch Patty morning for my

text

until I see him.

Perfect.

I

want to talk

about something that we're, we're, I think we're all three of us are, by the way, packed quite a lot.

Trig V. Olson joined us here via StreamYard today.

The news, newspapers, the importance of local news.

First quickly to a national or a regional story, then here in Wisconsin, a story about Indiana University orders the school paper to cease print edition and fires the.

of the student media.

Indiana University orders students on newspaper, the Indiana Daily Student to cease printing a news edition, a new edition, and fire the director of student media who also serves as the paper's advisor.

University's directive to halt print editions came just hours after the director was terminated in a letter.

Pat, I think this is just another example of Trumpism leaking into suppression of free speech.

I guess, although I feel like I need to know a little bit more about it and what is it that is leading to these accusations of potential censorship.

But if it is anything like that, it would be extremely troubling in Indiana being a red state as it is.

It wouldn't be as surprising.

It would be much more surprising to come out of Wisconsin, Minnesota, something like that.

But again, it is in keeping with the times.

There are simply not that many people out there anymore who want

to defend a free press.

This comes from The Guardian, by

the way.

Thank you.

I should have said that up front, TheGuardian.com.

It says the recent weeks there have been disagreements between the university leadership and the paper's board and the advisor over what content could appear in the print paper according to the Indianapolis Star.

Trigby, someone who's fought against authoritarianism in Eastern Europe, I don't know.

I just think I'm one of these people that thinks a free press is probably good for democracy.

Yeah, I think free press is good for democracy kind of like Pat.

I don't really know the details of it I'm actually skimming a story on it right now It also looks like they had some financial challenges, but it does look like the guy was let go for not

censoring articles that the administration didn't like.

You know, I think that is a problem of the world that we're living in, right?

Everybody wants to own their own trues.

And they get, when you have political extremism, I say this often, right?

Like there's four steps, psychological distress.

acceptance of simplistic answers over confidence and then ultimately intolerance.

And what we're seeing all across the country in various ways is intolerance.

And that intolerance knows no color, although it certainly, as Trumpism has definitely thrown gasoline on the fire.

And then you see it at places like universities.

Just that's the way these things work.

Everything becomes, you gotta be on red team or blue team.

The

rest of us are stuck in the

middle.

IU alum and graduate, your buddy, Mark Cuban, came out calling out his alma mater for doing this.

Maybe you can get Mark to throw some money towards the paper like he did for a signetty for the $90 million contract for a football.

You

know, you know, you know, well, this is the thing.

If signetty were to come out and say, no more money for football over this.

Oh, yeah.

Right.

I'm pretty sure.

I'm pretty sure the advisor would be back tomorrow.

Yeah.

And that that that that is the unfortunate reality too that we're in is the you have a very small subset of people who give large monies to the universities who have an extraordinary amount of sway over those universities.

Now, that being said, if you want to impact them, those are the people that you got to get to make the case.

Yeah.

Pat, we'll get more into this on the other side, but there's a great story at Wisconsin Watch on this student newspaper.

The Pulaski News is called in.

in the high school where students have been filling this local void for news for a long time.

I think that's pretty cool.

It is cool.

Keep in mind that again, you're always going to have students who aspire to be storytellers, to be reporters.

They're young.

They don't know that the business model for news gathering is completely and hopelessly broken at the moment because there's always going to be the need for that investigation.

So like in the case of the Indiana paper, they, as I'm seeing now, they cut it down to like seven additions.

They were just supposed to be about special events about homecoming and special student guides.

They wanted fluff.

No.

We need information more than ever, especially from young aspiring journalists with good faculty leadership.

Absolutely.

One of those young inspired journalists who is now a full bird journalist.

Been for many years.

Pat Critell, you can hear journalism.

You can hear his entertainment is this day in music history as long as people don't.

What do they do as offers?

They they they they they act one of the songs.

It's terrible.

It's a whole thing.

You

can hear it every morning from six until nine.

A morning to Pat Critell.

Thank you, Patrick.

Have a great day.

Thank you guys.

Tricky on the other side.

Stay with us.

Like any girl dad in America, making birthdays better, Katy Perry there.

Trigvielson happens to be a girl dad.

Joins us from the nation's capital, Washington, D.C.

Every Wednesday.

Former Republican like myself, now a senior advisor at the Lincoln Project, Trigvielson.

You went to Katy Perry, right?

I did.

And you know what happens when you go to like a Katy Perry concert?

What?

post a picture of your daughters for them to find years later on Facebook.

You learn things like the fact that Katy Perry is apparently dating Justin Trudeau.

Yes, that's true.

It's really more information than I wanted to know and why it's on my Facebook feed.

I'm not quite sure.

And then there

is a post and I mean Justin Trudeau is a pretty smart.

or is a pretty smart politician, there's a paparazzi picture of him on top of a, or on the main deck of a boat, a yacht, something shirtless, but with jeans on, and then Katy Perry is like in a bathing suit, and people say, oh, you know, look at that.

That had to be set up, right?

I mean, you don't.

Do that if

you

don't know

I think they had to know the popper exactly.

We're probably there exactly.

I mean, it's it's foolish It's like there was this post Excuse me a paparazzi picture of Travis Kelsey and Taylor Swift on a beach and people were ragging on how they looked

right It's

like they don't look like they're very fit I thought really

I know you you you've been to both Katy Perry and the Taylor Swift concert with your daughters You can't I mean you were there.

I've seen like Garth Bruce concerts Jenny Kenny Chesney concerts these people who are actually entertainers and performers that go on for for two and in Taylor Swift case almost three hours You don't do that unless you're in great shape Right.

I

mean.

Oh, yeah a hundred percent.

Yeah, I mean

Katy Perry's show was weird, I thought but whatever not my cup of tea Taylor Swift Taylor Swift is a is a showgirl pun intended like that was a it was it was it was pretty good.

It was you know when she's an entertainer out Yeah, when we walked out Kaya said to me, that's the greatest concert you've ever seen right dad And I'm thinking it's not gums and roses and motley crew in 89 but

I might have been I might have been using some medicinal improvements

By way, David new Berlin listening to it Yes, I turned 56 yesterday.

He says I'm 55 when you were 19 in 1989 I was 18 anybody that was anybody was rocking a mullet in 1989 well Dave that just goes to prove yeah, I was nobody

I had feathered

hair back in the 80s.

Yeah, the mullets for I had a mullet.

Did you really?

Everybody had a mullet.

All right, awesome.

All right, let's work in the front party in the back.

There's a party going on out in Washington DC at least for somebody.

The Trumpster, Donald Trump, taking time to tear down the East Wing of the White House, which I find particularly disturbing and tricky.

You've worked for a high level people out in DC.

You've spent a lot of time out there.

You live out there.

Am I right or wrong?

that regardless of past presidents who may have done remodels or whatever additions, doesn't that have to go through like a congressional or or historic building committee?

I mean, you know, you don't have Truman just saying, oh, here, let's do this.

Yeah.

Actually, ironically, I think Harry Truman did actually revamp the White House.

I know I knew he did.

That's why I

said that.

But I don't

think he just woke

up one day and said, let's do this.

Well, yeah, you would think that there would be more of a process than there seems to have been with this.

That being said, I don't know the answer.

I can think of certain governors of the state of Wisconsin who they themselves or their wives unilaterally decided to start changing around the governor's mansion.

So I don't know.

That's a little bit of a gray area.

I do think like the Rose Garden stuff.

That was sad.

I understand it's sad because it.

It wasn't acknowledging the history of the Rose Garden.

That said, I also kind of get the thinking behind it.

I mean.

How so?

You know, I just think there should be more of a process.

The Rose Garden.

Yeah.

I mean, having been in the Rose Garden, I mean, the Rose Garden was really cool because it's the Rose Garden, but the Rose Garden also was very Franklin Roosevelt.

when you were actually in terms of practicality for today.

So.

But do you think it should be like

Mar-a-Lago's front porch?

He literally put umbrellas there the

same

as

Mar-a-Lago.

No, I get that.

That's why I think.

You know, there's a right way to do it and a wrong way to do it.

We talked about the remodeling of the state capital because I was in the state capital and I remember thinking all the controversy around that, right?

Well, and yet when you go to the Wisconsin state capital today, it's amazing, but it wasn't like Tommy was unilaterally making the decisions about how that was going to work, right?

Like they have a whole bunch of people to restore it.

And that I think we're saying the same thing.

I think by the way,

uh, uh, Casper watch on YouTube says the rose garden that doesn't have roses anymore.

Right.

Yeah.

That that is true.

I could have seen that's kind.

That that is right to the point.

Casper says it looks like an apple beats now.

Right.

He's a

hundred percent right.

There's

a right way and a wrong way to do these there's a right way and a wrong way to do these things I don't think this was the right way to do it and I will tell you ironically the people defending it

to a degree if it had been Joe Biden ripping up the Rose Garden.

Or Barack Obama.

Making it look like making it look like the Delaware Shore or or or

what's the thing.

The

peer the peer the peer in Chicago people would have gone bananas.

The same people who are defending it now.

And that's the bigger point.

That's why there's a right way and a wrong way to do it.

And my boss my former boss sat on you know a thing a committee of Wisconsin called SCURB the state residence and executive board.

Or the state capital executive residence board that has to go any remodelate the governor's residence has to go through this board and when Scott Walker came in Tonette wanted to change the kitchen and some other things and She came up and the first thing that's Tonette Walker did honest to God.

I was there in the meeting She tore out the handicap ramp at the front entry of the executive residence because she thought it looked ugly Screw the people in wheelchairs.

I'm taking out the ramp

So

there's that I mean that gets back that gets back to the right way in the wrong way I mean The reality is there is a middle ground that can work Right for everybody on these things and you know in theory it's Donald Trump is a guest in that house But he sure seems to be going about reconstructing it as though he thinks of himself as

A long-term occupant.

All right.

There's a well that to hold that brings up our next

topic here

permanent occupant Much more serious things.

I mean not that this isn't serious with tearing down a wing of the of the White House and and building an extravagant gaudy ballroom But I think there is something more newsy here and that was at the Oval Office yesterday in the White House Trump during a presser was it came up that I'm not sure exactly what question it was from the report

who brought this up, but it gave Trump an opportunity as he does to go off on a tangent and kind of unprovoked.

He goes on the fact that his Justice Department now is thinking about paying him, Trump, a settlement for what he claims are damages during the investigation of January 6th.

Here's Trump yesterday.

Yes, sir.

Very good.

Just follow up on her question to you, because the New York Times is reporting that your legal team is seeking $230 million from your own Justice Department now in response to the investigations into you.

Could be.

Is that something you want your legal team to do?

I don't

know what the number is.

I don't even talk to them about it.

All I know is that they would owe me a lot of money, but I'm not looking for money.

I'd give it to charity or something.

I would give it to charity, any money.

But look, what they did, they rigged the election.

And as you know, we had, in one case, 60 minutes, had to pay us a lot of money.

George Slavidopoulos had to pay us a lot of money, and they already paid.

You know, they paid me a lot of money because what they did was wrong.

And, you know, when somebody does what's wrong.

Now, with the country, it's interesting because I'm the one that makes a decision, right?

And, you know, that decision would have to go close my desk.

And it's awfully strange to make a decision where I'm paying myself.

In other words, did you ever have one of those cases where you have to decide how much you're paying yourself in damages?

But I was damaged very greatly.

And any money that I would get, I would give to charity.

Donald Trump yesterday in the White House, saying that he has to make the decision whether to pay himself $260 million of damages in his mind.

For being invested well,

wait,

it's not it's not damages.

That's why he's claiming your

money.

Yes, but I'm just saying what he's claiming

But there's a lot to frame it as what it is.

It would be taxpayer money correct now I would say this to any listeners that say yep, he was damaged His legal fees.

He should get damages for what's been done to him

My question is, if Jim Comey, if that case is thrown out, or John Brennan, or any of these other people have their cases dismissed, whatever, should they be compensated for damages?

Would you agree that they should be with taxpayer money?

Because you can't.

Logically say that Donald Trump should be compensated if you do not believe that any of those people should also be compensated if that happens Well,

I agree that you say

and what would their answer be Todd?

That's it.

Absolutely not Yeah, they would be well, what about what about what about what about?

Yeah The other part is just disturbing.

I'm no lawyer, but I think any basic person could say the President of the United States

It's not supposed to be making decisions for the Justice Department and the president says does not quote-unquote sign off on on perceived or real damages to individuals that the government pays out.

That comes from other people.

And the fact that he's he's saying that he makes this decision is just another indicator to me, Trigvie, although you've actually worked against authoritarians that this guy views everything as his.

Yeah.

Uh-huh.

the US government he believes is his yes uh it's not only republicans

uh thinking this is uh uh not a problem it happens to be a democrat as well this is uh US senator john fetterman democrat of pennsylvania on cnn asked about this yesterday

and you even represent eagles fans i take it as well one final question uh senator fetterman um the president yesterday seemed to acknowledge that he's trying

to get a $230 million payout from the government in response to a couple of the investigations into him.

That would be taxpayer money.

How do you feel about the president pushing for that?

I hope that's not true for that kinds of money that that small ball and I think we have much bigger problems and worrying about those things.

I hope it's I hope it's not true.

And of course, you know the two.

$230 million should go to paying people's health insurance or other things.

That's not a priority.

I would ever support, uh, for those kinds of payments.

So

gentlemen, uh, talking to me, calling it a small ball, I just, what happened to this guy?

He, I think he just gave a bad answer.

The, I mean, not a bad answer.

He, he says he doesn't think that Trump should be getting the money.

Yeah, but you referred to it shows.

It shows somebody out of touch that he suggests two hundred fifty million dollars is small ball, which might get to a part of the problem with people, you know, some of the perspectives of people like John Fetterman.

Yeah.

Come on back.

Talk more.

Donald Trump is trying to perpetrate the big lie.

We'll play it for you in the other side of the all ball show on the Civic Media Radio Network.

Jammin' with you on a Wednesday, October 22nd, 2025.

Go to your political jams.

All kinds of great information.

Subscribe to Trig V. Olsen's sub-stack.

All kinds of great information there.

Trig V. Olsen joins us from his home in suburban Washington, D.C.

Senior Advisor at the Lincoln Project.

You can find him at Trig V. Olsen.

That's T-R-Y-G-V-E-O-L-S-O-N.

Dot substack.com Trig v. Olson dot substack.com always worth a read always worth a follow Trig v talking about Trump talking to the press yesterday the Oval Office one of the things he casually drops out.

He's back to I think I said perpetrating I Got my peas mixed up.

He's perpetuating the big lie that the 2020 election was somehow rigged

somehow stolen from him that Joe Biden actually didn't win, which we know categorically is untrue.

It has been proven that the 2020 election was one of the safest, fairest elections in the history of our country, as was the 2024 election.

And yet, here is Donald Trump yesterday in the White House.

Well, really, I think it's got to be...

It's got to be handled in a proper way.

If it's not handled in a proper way, it could happen.

We don't want it to happen again.

We can never let what happened in the 2020 election happen again.

We just can't let that happen.

And so the way we go, I know Kay, she's working on it.

Everybody's working on it.

And certainly Tulsi is working on it.

We can't let that happen again to our country.

Look at what's happened where you have millions of people being allowed to come into our country, all because of a crooked election.

where they come from prisons, they come from jails, they come from mental institutions and insane asylum, they're drug dealers, the people that they've allowed to come into our country, we cleaned

them.

Donald Trump yesterday, the White House, again, false information that somehow the 2020 election was rigged, trig me.

I think for me, the more disturbing part is saying that he's looking ahead to 2028.

You have concerns about

this?

I mean, I think you have to you have to you have to take these guys at their word I mean if I learned one thing from working around the world with those autocrats against autocrats They all are kind of the same guy and and they almost always say what they intend to do and it may seem ridiculous in the moment but eventually it becomes their truth and

Does anyone have any reason to doubt that Donald Trump probably wants to run again?

I don't.

Do you?

He has hats in the Oval Office to say Trump 2028.

Exactly.

And you know, so there's always this tendency to describe that.

I need to explain it away.

Well, he was just trolling the Democrats, blah, blah, blah.

But in truth, does anyone think that?

knowing what we know after 10 years of Donald Trump that he wouldn't want to stay in, whether he wins an election or not.

I

mean, he's already demonstrated that, which is the reason why when you had people before the election who were dismissing it, particularly some who know him personally, Scott Walker would be an example of this.

Who say oh people don't want to hear about January 6th anymore.

They're tired of that They want to know about the economy.

Well the question back to Scott now would be they don't want to hear about Ice on the streets.

They well, they they care about that, but let's talk about the economy How is the economy

not

good pretty good if you got Diane Hendricks money and you run some youth group

That's good.

No, I mean, we talked about this yesterday.

Beef farmers are up in a lot of Republicans because Trump said over the weekend that he wants to bring an Argentinian beef to flood the U.S.

market to drive down beef prices.

I don't think that's that does not sit well with beef farmers in Eau Claire County.

Well, how is it working out for soybean farmers, the tariffs in Iowa?

Yeah, not well.

Or the soybean farmers in Wisconsin.

You know, but but.

People need to take a deep breath, too.

You look at the latest polling that has been coming out, and the reality is, I get there's this desire, well, it doesn't matter what's going to happen a year from now, the country's going to be destroyed by then, blah, blah, blah.

That is true.

But what people have to keep reminding themselves is, you're talking about a guy who's had 37% approval right now.

That's he's underwater in all of the all those swing states.

He's underwater in some red states The bottom line it is Americans are rejecting this they really really are I mean They are and there's several people showed up

outside and we

had

reports from people in our own staff Jane McNair was at the no Kings rally in Milwaukee last weekend She said she ran into people that said I'm a Republican but I'm tired of this

Yeah, and the way you break these things is it's the vertical underneath no longer supporting and and whether the election itself is free or fair the reality is The elections will be an opportunity to so overwhelmingly swamp them That it is impossible for them to cheat their way out of it,

right?

And that's the key people have to show up as much an election day and as united an election day as they are at no Kings rallies

Right and they have to be they have to be understanding that this

battle that we're in is going to be won or lost by not being afraid and and by understanding that it isn't about what you think but the people that are succumbing to to to Trumpism that you need to inform yourself and get the tools to be able to have conversations with friends and family not avoid those conversations but actually have those conversations around the dinner table in ways that

aren't going to change their mind immediately but are helping them find within themselves why what they're advocating for isn't in their best interest.

You have to help them find the cognitive dissidents.

not push them towards being intolerant towards you.

And there are far too many who think it's about what I think or feel and the others are ill-informed.

That is not a winning strategy.

You don't want to hear that.

What you need to do is you need to lead them to understanding.

Agreed.

Are you sticking with us a little bit next hour?

You gotta run.

Unfortunately,

I now have a four o'clock call about some of the tools I'm working on.

All right.

Enjoy.

I'm supposed to hit up against the deadline.

We'll take some

calls.

But we'll

talk about that when it comes out, dude.

Sounds good.

Take your calls to the other side, stick with us.

Thank you for now, Trinity Olson.

We'll see you next week.

Back after this for hour two.

From the Civic Media World Headquarters in Madison, Wisconsin, it's the Todd Alba Show.

And now, pursuing truth wherever it may lead, here's your host, Todd Alba.

Across Wisconsin on the Civic Media Radio Network.

and streaming worldwide on the Civic Media app.

Good afternoon, everybody, title of all along Mr. Aaron Zummer's on the board.

It is six minutes past the hour of three o'clock.

Welcome into hour number two of the big program here at the World Headquarters of Civic Media, Downtown Madison, intersection of State and Fairchild, Overcast Day.

Glad to have you along here on this Wednesday, October 22nd, 2025.

It is a great day to be a Wisconsinite, and it is.

Pump day.

That's right.

Camel made it to the middle of another day.

And by the way, again, happy birthday to Rob Wheat, our football coach.

A violinist used to call him Wheaty.

Oh, geez.

Where's Wheaty?

Happy birthday, Wheaty.

It sounds funny when somebody else says it to me.

I'm sure

it does.

Yeah, so Rob, one day older than I am, or younger, I should say, one day younger.

I'm the old man.

But yeah, so Happy Earth Day.

Rob Hopeall is well down there in beautiful Monroe, Wisconsin in Green County.

All right, it's seven minutes past the hour.

It's been a lot of fun.

A brand new segment here.

We started to hear this last week or so.

Time once again for today's Wisconsin Fun

Fact.

That's right.

That's Wisconsin's official ballot.

Land of Wisconsin, land of my dreams.

Sherry Saracen, author and singer there on that beautiful.

Time now for Wisconsin's fun fact.

On October 22nd, 1863, Stephen Bolton Babcock was born.

Babcock.

developed a test to determine the butterfat content of milk and worked at the University of Wisconsin for 43 years.

Babcock Hall now bears his name and produces some of the finest ice cream anywhere in the world.

But if they could get on the get on top of it, figuring out ice cream, ice cream headache, i.e.

brain freeze.

Now that'd be great.

That's how we play Wisconsin Fun Facts.

I really should read those before we go on the air.

That would probably be a good move.

We had meetings today.

And I attended the meetings, which is my first mistake.

But I love it.

There are simply Wisconsin Fun Facts.

So anyway See I

wanted to say that is indeed a fun fact and I realized I said that yesterday and the day before so instead I just said nothing

Let's say let's hear something from our great delisting audience your last hour.

We're joined by Pat Crichtlow host of mornings

with Pat Crite Low on civic media from six until nine, and Trigby Olson, senior advisor at the Lincoln Project, and we got into this, we played this cut from President Trump from the Oval Office, where he's saying that we, quote, we can't let it happen again, unquote, referring to the elections of 2020 in which we know that he illegally, and by all means of review,

lost the 2020 election to Joe Biden, he continues to perpetuate the big lie that somehow he won, which we know that is categorically false.

And so yesterday, the Oval Office, he's carrying on and hinting that we cannot let that happen again in 2028 and saying that he has his people like Cash Patel and Tulsi Gabbard quote unquote on this, which as we heard Trig V. Olsen say is someone who

fought against authoritarianism in Eastern Europe, it's a very dangerous thing to be signaling this, and it's something we have to be on top of, and it's why it's so important that if you are against Trumpism, you have to show up at elections and do so, so overwhelmingly that it makes it just literally impossible to rig, like he tried to do in Georgia in 2020, calling up the Secretary of State and saying, find me X number of votes, which thankfully,

the guy down in Georgia did not do, even though he was Republican.

But now we've seen in this Trump 2.0 in the second term, even stronger armed tactics to get his way.

Take a couple of comments on this before we move on.

855-752-4842, 855-752-4842.

Jack in Merrimack, listening on WMDX.

Jack, thanks for holding.

We'll see you.

Well, thanks for taking my call.

A couple of things.

say about that.

Thing one, if I heard that quote correctly, it was, we can't let 2020 happen again in 2028 or ever again.

And that's in pretty good alignment with his old ex-buddies, Steve Bannon, who proposed that

We are going to have, from this point on, a 50-year life.

I mean, excuse me, maga rule.

You better watch it.

We're going to have to watch our elections.

I mean, already he's trying to cheat by doing something that I've never heard of being

done

before outside of a court order, which is telling people to redistrict their state so that he can get more.

more of his politicians and lackeys in the office.

The second thing I want to say about this is so he keeps coming up with and so do all of these these mega acolytes.

They keep coming up with these repeated lie after lie after lie and so much of it like the election lie is stuff that is either you can check on it

and and

it's obviously false if you even

to do it just a little checking.

Or in some cases, the lie is just almost meaningless.

It's a spurious lie.

And there's a reason why they keep doing it.

And the historian who studied the Nazis extensively, Hannah Arendt, put it quite succinctly.

And I don't have

the exact quote in front of me, but it's something like the purpose of the lie.

of the continuous lying is not so people believe the lies, but so nobody believes anything anymore

and

that people who then don't know what to believe don't know the difference between right and wrong and they are the ideal subject, not the committed fascist or communist, but it's the people that don't know what to believe anymore that are the ideal people to be influenced by

Yeah,

Jack, I appreciate you bringing that up.

That last point there, I think is, in my opinion, is the most pertinent and most dangerous, right?

Because we have gotten into the point now in our day-to-day lives, where sometimes, right now...

It's difficult to find out what the truth is or not.

What videos we're seeing are real or AI.

Where is the truth?

And to the point where people just say, I don't want to pay, I can't pay attention anymore because I don't know what's right, what's wrong.

That's a great point, Jack.

Appreciate it.

855-752-4842.

Charles down in Milwaukee listening on WAUK.

Milwaukee, walkie-walkie shot.

Charles, thanks for listening.

We'll see

you.

Hey, good afternoon, guys.

My frustration with it all is, when will any reporter get a backbone and call him out for the just blatant lie about the election being stolen?

They know the election wasn't stolen.

There was, I think, 62 court cases.

And I think the only one that they won was one that allowed the

the watchers to move a couple inches closer to the counter.

I mean, and this whole thing about 2028, he knows he can't really run.

I'm not, I don't put anything past him and his party anymore because they are all sick of fans and they're willing to go along with whatever he said.

But my thing is, when will a reporter

get some integrity and say, you know what, if I lose my job, at least I'll know I stood for something.

I think I agree with you and thank you for that point.

By the way, Charles, I've been walking into the UK and this is why I keep trying to bring forward and share with you all these stories in the media.

You know, my friends will tell me, you're so susceptible, Todd, to marketing, and you're somebody who is in the business.

I say, yes, you're absolutely right, because I consume a lot of media.

And yes, so I follow a place like Variety and Wired and all these kind of broadcast and media publications.

And the reason why I bring you these stories like Barry Weiss of the Free Press being paid $150 million for her.

very right-leaning online publication, which was seven times the value according to the experts and now is being bought by Paramount, which runs and owns CBS News.

And now she's the editor chief of CBS News.

The reason I tell you those stories is just because it's Todd's little niche thing that I'm intrigued with, which it is.

I'll admit that.

But as to Charles's point, the last.

Reporter and there I've gotten there probably others after a 2020 but the last reporter that I remember or anchor that really did what Charles just said was when Scott Pele was the anchor at CBS news and And he would point out during the 2020 election.

He would say, you know Donald Trump our president Trump has said said this and That is inaccurate

Here's the action.

He would he would present these stories in like real time.

Maybe I'm sorry.

Maybe it was the 2016 election pardon me Where he would be but in real time on this CBS evening news they play a clip from Trump and Pelly Scott Pelly is the anchor of CBS evening news would say that is inaccurate and Then read the facts But now because of corporations being afraid of losing their licenses

You see fewer and fewer mainstream reporters or media to Charles's point There were really good reporters in that room Caitlyn Collins from CNN was there and O'Keeffe from CBS Who all in their stand-ups in front of the White House have pointed out the facts But they're unwilling to say that to his face in the Oval Office because they're afraid fearful or their companies are

Maybe it'll keep and Caitlin Collins have been told directly do not ask these things because Trump will pull our credentials and we won't have access and if we don't have access We'll have fewer ratings and fewer ratings means fewer advertising dollars and then we're all out of business That's why journalism matters.

That's why I'm so blessed and honored to work for a place like civic media Who truly is independent and doesn't put those kind of constraints?

Honest great calls.

Uh, let's open up the thing real quick.

Time once again for what's worse.

Let's go Time once again for what's worse nothing in way no prize money involved is your chance to have your voice heard on all 10 news talks for stations on the civic media radio Network timely timely indeed as Mike Lucas says Lots of wedding my sister and brother-in-law celebrated their anniversary.

They got married in October last week

Today's category, what's worse?

Wedding showers or baby showers?

Wedding showers or baby showers?

855-752-4842 855-752

4842 or text us on the Civic Media app.

Download it for free today.

It takes less than a minute.

It is free.

For CBS's Gail King Calls a Deal, the Civic Media app.

What's worse, wedding showers or baby showers.

We'll discuss it on the other side on the Civic Media.

Ready to know.

Welcome back to the title of our show on the Civic Media Brady Network, Maestro Aaron Zombers.

Directing the orchestra?

What's the actual name of this?

It's not, here comes the bride.

No, that one is from Wagner.

This is Wedding March Opus number 61 from a Midsummer Night's Dream written by Mendelssohn.

Very, I should have known

that from my music history classes at E.W.

Richland with Professor Jim Agard.

Fantastic professor, conductor, person, director.

I didn't always, I was too poor to pay attention sometimes in my music history literature class at E.W.

Richland.

Well, you also don't remember every single piece of music.

But he would hear Jim Ager went a long way to help me and appreciate and and understand classical music as did my high school band director Lauren Jensen.

So little Mendelssohn, little Mendelssohn.

Very good.

All right.

Today's category.

Speaking of music that you hear at weddings, what's worse, wedding showers or baby showers, wedding showers.

or baby showers, 855-752-4842, 855-752-4842.

You can also text us on the Civic Media app, download it at your Apple or Android device today for free, and it takes less than a minute, so download it.

What's worse, wedding showers or baby showers, zammers, we're talking about, Craig Vue and I of a certain age, what we were growing up was not common.

For men to go to either one of these things I think with your generation as much more so

more so but still not super common Really the only ones that I have been to were for my older sister wedding or baby.

Yes

No, okay, very good.

All right, very good.

Wedding

showers.

Not at the same

time, mind you.

They were separate events.

I wasn't going to

ask, but I

went to vote.

Okay, I wondered if I wasn't going to ask.

Wedding showers or baby showers, 855-752-4842.

Brett in Brown Deer, listening on WAUK in the walkie-walkie shop, this is great.

He says, what do baby showers and wedding showers and Trump rallies have in common?

You'll never see me at any of them.

That's pretty good.

Chris listening in beautiful Janesville, VNW MDX.

Chris says, I don't agree with this statement.

Well, maybe maybe it is more common than either of us think for men to go to the baby showers and wedding showers.

I just.

I don't know.

A lot of my friends haven't.

A lot of my relatives haven't.

Jill, listening in Madison here on WMDX, says wedding showers are worse.

Gift buying for baby showers is much easier.

All right.

That's a good point.

I also, I, my friends, Joe and Rachel are expecting their first child and I got out in Colorado, so I wasn't able to make it.

But, and they're pretty, I mean, they're pretty chill people.

They're very chill people.

But well, they do live in Colorado.

Exactly.

But I think I don't know why, but I feel like gifts are getting harder to buy unless they're on a registry.

Yeah.

Because people are

very particular now.

Yes, they really are.

I mean, some people are very, and look, I mean, that's fine.

But it's like, well, you know, I want my baby and I'm not saying my friends are like this, but I'm just saying in general, some people are like, well, I don't want anything that's.

that's purchased or that this manufactured in country X, or I don't want anything that's made out of this material, or I, you know, it has to be natural dyes.

You know, you don't know what people, you know, I used to just be, you know, go to cross-cups department store and pick something out of granimals and you're good, but not anymore, you understand?

Yeah, it can be pretty complicated, which luckily for me, I was in high school at the time, so I didn't have to buy anything for my sister.

Yeah.

Well, there you go.

Uh, I'm trying to think of, I've been to, I've been to a wedding shower.

I don't think I've been to a wedding shower.

Uh, have I actually been to a baby shower?

I don't know.

Not that I know of, but I don't know.

I think that's why I'm bigger registries.

Just look at the registry of pick something and boom, there you go.

You're done.

Cause you know, they're going to use it then.

Yeah.

Otherwise I'm probably just going to give money.

I feel like those are the two best options, unless you really know the person well.

Like if it's someone who you see multiple times a week, you can probably figure out something,

but.

Wedding showers or baby showers, what's worse, 855-752-4842, 855-752-4842.

Barb, listening in Waukesha on WUK.

We were just there last week, Barb.

Love Waukesha.

Says, I didn't like going to my own showers.

They are both equally obnoxious.

I believe it.

Now there's an honest answer.

Well done, Barb.

I think there are people out there.

It's like, I really don't want to do this and the friends, no, no, you got to do it.

It's also, I just find it to be kind of a weird tradition because you're showering them with gifts.

So, okay, let's say you have a couple who just got together or who's about to get married and they plan on having kids right away.

You get him a gift at the wedding shower.

You get him a gift at the wedding.

You get him a gift at the baby shower.

If they buy a house, you get him a housewarming gift.

It's like, all right, just take half my paycheck.

Let's see, PJ, watching on YouTube, says, which are worse, wedding or baby showers, says both, because I have done neither one and never planned two.

Well, that brings up a good point.

Like, I have never been married.

I don't, I ever will be.

So I feel like, you know, what do you do?

You just say, OK, I'm going to pick a date and I'm going to celebrate my singlehood.

Bring me a gift.

That is

frowned upon.

Well, but I think that's a good point.

Seeing people think I'm weird if I did this.

But yet I'm expected to give multiple gifts to people that get married.

Yeah, I think.

I think you just have to base it on how.

How well you know the person and everything like are they gonna be upset if you don't get them something are they gonna be upset if you just get them something small but useful like I think that's

it, you know, I Yeah, I've gone I've I've been there's been a couple of years my life where I've had like I don't like three or four people that I knew got married and stuff and you're right that it gets pricey, right so

I don't know.

Um, Joe, watching on YouTube says, uh, what's worse?

Visiting Nashville, it seems to be the entire bachelorette shindig thing has gotten a little out of hand.

So I'll say wedding showers are worse.

Oh, he's down in Nashville.

All right.

We'll enjoy your trip down there, Joe.

Safe travels.

Uh, Terry.

Oh, Terry Barr says the games, uh, at either one.

All right, come on back.

We'll have more after this on the Civic Media Brain Network.

Stay tuned for Pam Yonkey, the Farmer Club.

Welcome back to the Tahleball show on the Civic Media Arena.

We're glad to have you along on a Wednesday, October 22nd.

Weedy's birthday, 2025.

35 minutes now past the hour of three o'clock.

Zommer's on the board.

Aaron Zommer's, that is.

Wrap it up.

I want to, because this came in just under the wire, and I want to get this in today's what's worse category, what's worse, wedding showers.

Or baby showers as hours.

I forgot to I guess officially ask you what's worse.

I think I'm gonna say baby showers just because Like you said with all the new Organic stuff, it's harder to know harder to come up with something you can give them That's not just buying off a registry.

Yeah, I I guess I'd agree.

Yeah, baby showers are probably worse our own Terry Terry Barr Watching on YouTube

See these games and she was saying the games either one are terrible She says games like how fast can you diaper a doll or pin the bow tie on the groom?

See I've never had to do anything like that

See pin the bow tie on the groom Just ends up being all right.

You have one person who's not going to aim for the neck.

They're going to aim much lower And probably nail it and everybody else with their blindfolds is going to miss

Now, that's a game I might participate in.

Perhaps.

I think you probably

succeed.

Practice makes

perfect.

Probably.

But here's the winner for the day, in my opinion, on the text line.

What's worse, wedding showers or baby showers.

And I said earlier that, you know, look, for those of us who never got married, probably won't.

I should have like a single shower or something like that.

I don't know.

Brett Brown Deer, listening on the UK, Brett says, quote, Todd, you don't get a gift for not getting married because you already won by staying single.

Now, I don't know about that.

I don't.

Sometimes it's not, you know, you get a little lonely or whatever.

But there is something to be said, I guess, for your freedom as well.

There is.

And I mean, talking money-wise, if you're talking about a baby shower, having kids, very expensive.

Very expensive.

Very expensive.

Yeah, I don't like.

On the other hand, when I get old, there's going to be nobody around to take care of me.

That's why I'm trying to stay healthy, understand?

That's why I got to get rid of the salviary salvatary.

What is it?

Salivary gland that's it salivary

gland stone.

I Can't I can't be walking around with a stone in my neck for the next 20 years.

That's not gonna help All right, that was that was a great.

That was a great segment I like that a lot.

We'll play more tomorrow on on what's worse Okay, I want to get into this a little bit Which we haven't went and by one Friday we're gonna talk more about it

We're gonna have Brady Ewing, our friend Brady Ewing, who is a former Badger, two-time Big Ten champion of Wisconsin Badger football.

And then he also played three years in the NFL.

We've had Joe Thomas on this show.

He was kind enough to invite us out to his farm, Six Springs Farm.

By the way, he's a beef guy.

And we went into yesterday about all the stuff Donald Trump wants to pay Argentinian beef farmers, bail them out.

help them and screw over the Wisconsin beef farmers.

But that's, as they say, that's another bottle of wine or plate of beef.

But what we've had Brady, we have Joe Thomas on and looking at what's happening at Wisconsin football right now, it ain't good.

By any stretch of the imagination, Brady will be here on Friday at 3.30.

We'll get his take on it, at least his personal take, his thoughts on

Not a great season so far for Wisconsin football.

They have they have only won two games and they were the two non-conference games against Miami of Ohio and Middle Tennessee State They lost against Alabama.

They lost at home against Maryland.

They lost at Michigan They lost at home against Iowa 37 to nothing and now this past week.

They lost to number one Ohio State at home

34 to nothing.

They go to Oregon, Oregon.

I get the talent in the state mixed up.

They go to Oregon, out in Washington state this year, or this week.

That is Oregon.

Oregon, sorry.

The town

here is Oregon.

I'm reading three things at once, I'm sorry.

Yes, they go to Oregon this week and play the ducks, the dirty ducks.

which I'm not a fan of these people anyway, the ducks, because they've stolen games from us, but I'm not going to get into that.

So they play Oregon, 6 p.m.

local time here in Wisconsin.

Oregon is ranked number six in the country.

They've got new tie-dye flashy uniforms.

They always got flashy uniforms because their big benefactor is Phil Knight of Nike.

So they get whatever they want from Nike.

Most likely it'll be six straight games.

For Luke fickle the Badgers losses, then they come home to play Washington The other UW Which I had had that at the beginning of the season I thought that would be a win.

I no longer think so.

Yeah, I'm not so optimistic then they go to number two Indiana That ain't gonna be pretty for the Badgers and then they come home and play the traveling Burt's Brett Bielema and Illinois this ranked 23

That's going to be a struggle.

And then they finish up the season at Minnesota, the battle for the acts against the flexors, PJ Fleck.

PJ Fleck, for whatever reason, knows how to get his team psyched up for that game.

If it was at Wisconsin, maybe.

I think Wisconsin struggles to have another win all season long.

So you finish with two wins for the year.

After finishing with four or four or five last year They missed the bowl game last year And there's the fans are calling the donors are calling for Luke fickle the coach of the Badgers to be fired Let me make it clear.

I I feel really badly for the players Because I don't think there's anybody on the Wisconsin Badger football team from the players the student athletes who are not trying

What's confusing to me is This abysmal slip into media or it's the mediocrity By a team that bury of my program that Barry Elvarez built up Was maintained to a large degree by Brett Bielema before he left to Arkansas Had a couple of years at Gary Anderson, which was kind of a weird Period, but at least hey, they had a winning record went to bowl games.

Then he had Paul Christ come in

ended up going to the Rose Bowl in 2019, or after the 2019 season into 2020, got fired by new athletic director, Chris McIntosh, and then brought in Luke Fickle from Cincinnati after bypassing longtime defensive assistant in Wisconsin alum, NFL alum, veteran Jimmy Leonard.

What I think is surprising about this period in Badger football surprising disconcerting Is you have a lot of former players now coming out and speaking?

openly about this Want to play this cut?

This is from Brad Nortman former University, Wisconsin punter who now has a program on ESPN, Wisconsin This is alum Badger alum Brad Nortman

on the status of Wisconsin football.

Everything I'm hearing from inside the building is that he has zero, not only has he hasn't done it, there's no engagement with the alumni, the former players, or Wisconsin High School coaches, there's no interest in doing it.