Something Bad Is Happening In Oz (Hour 1)

From the Civic Media World Headquarters in Madison, Wisconsin, it's the Todd Alba Show.

And now, pursuing truth wherever it may lead, here's your host, Todd Alba.

Across Wisconsin on the Civic Media Radio Network.

and streaming worldwide on the Civic Media app.

Good afternoon, everybody.

Todd Alba along with Mr. Aaron Zommers on the board.

It's six minutes past the hour of two o'clock on Wednesday, September 17th, 2025.

It's a great day to be a Wisconsinite, and it is hot day.

Very good.

Welcome, everybody.

Glad to have you along on Hump Day, Aaron Zamers, right off the bat here, Zamers.

For those watching on Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Twix, what have you, we stream the show.

You get to see us for better or worse.

And they have changed the format now.

And now Zommer's going to do this in real time, what has popped up on my screen here.

It says Insta360 link firmware update.

Do I hit remind me later or download?

Except I'm afraid if I touch something, it's all going to go to

hell.

Don't touch anything.

Don't.

Don't touch anything.

Look at

that.

Zommer's in the studio

now.

Yes,

I have a young

person.

The pilot's been incapacitated.

the copilot is taking over

now.

Just like airplane.

That is the voice, the mellow tones, the baritones coming across Lake Wissoda on a beautiful fall day.

He is the host of Mournings of Pac-Krytlo.

Mr. Pac-Krytlo, how are you?

Oh, it is me, isn't it?

Yes.

Hello.

It's it's nice to be here.

This is great to have you here and joining us as he does every Wednesday of former Republican like myself from the Tony suburbs of our nation's capital.

But originally a River Falls boy, the senior advisors, the Lincoln Project, Trig Vilsen, Trig Vihar.

I'm good.

You know, I'm a little leery because.

Pat has been on Facebook fire with some of his he has going after Derek Van Nod one It doesn't

take much that's for sure

Takes a lot to intimidate me, but I'm a little I'm a little nervous here Todd.

You don't want to be a Patrick's best Pat come at me.

I

don't think you're in danger of Doing the things Derek Van Orton has been doing for the past week

Before we get into that, I am wearing a lovely gift from my sister.

We went out last year to see the Broadway show Kimberley Kimbo.

And one of the themes of the show is life is short.

Enjoy the ride, the roller coaster.

So here you go.

There's the...

That's what you see, but it says life is short.

Enjoy the ride.

It's a

good, it's a good motto to seize the day.

We had Kira Saban, our positivity life psychologist on yesterday, talking about the fact that, look, even though bad things are happening every day, there are also great things happening every day.

And I think it's important just to remember some of the good things.

I'm going to start us off this week.

I want both of you to answer the question.

Pat Kratlow, what's good?

You could you could have just as easily asked if I would sprout another head out of the side of my neck here.

I was so unprepared for that one.

Tell you something good over the past.

Tell you what's good is having producers who are quick on the button and can bring up Rufus and Chaka Khan on a moment's notice.

There.

All

right, fantastic.

That's something.

Trig

V.

The other good

thing.

I'm sorry, Trig V.

If there's something that's good, it's that we...

collectively, civic media, we have become a destination for people who are seeking public office.

We had not one but two candidates early this morning, making their announcements, one of them for the very first time on our show.

And I feel like we're doing a good thing for the listeners all around Wisconsin is bringing them points of view they may not otherwise get.

State Rep.

Francesca Hong, Longster, the Democratic Gubernatorial bid this morning.

I'm Pat Schill.

We'll get back to that in a minute.

Trig V. Olsen, tell us something good.

The Micah Parsons Project.

It's pretty

good.

It's a good thing.

Dear Hunting Season is not that far off.

Bow Hunting.

High School football is going on.

All great things I'm just gonna be the fall weather.

I mean things are this is really my favorite time of year from now until About the end of November.

I love this time of year in Wisconsin.

So I am very happy to have the fall season upon us

By the way, Trigby, let's start with the gubernatorial race here and we'll get to Pat in a second.

But Trigby, I have received a text from a listener that says, when is Trigby going to start walking back to Wisconsin?

There are doors to be knocked for Kelther Royce.

Did she officially

announce?

Yeah, she came on our

show.

Well, I didn't

he's busy.

I've been in a little bit of DC.

I know you have yeah, but no, you

got I'm physically located someplace, but I'm Yeah, I've been I've been ensconced in the Matrix

Well,

I said though off the first show I'm gonna come on and talk about what I'm doing is gonna be this one

So

and I I know a little bit of what it is and it's legit and you're not going to miss it when it happens.

All right, Pat, let's go to the governor's race on your show this morning.

Exclusively a great get Francesca Hans state on state representative here in Madison represents most of the Isthmus of the east northeast side of Madison announced her gubernatorial race this morning on your show.

She calls herself a wild card.

Yeah, because you know underdog is She's I guess Jesse Oh point must have asked her that from the journal Sentinel and she said wild card is better than underdog and Look what we've got in this race right now is in Francesca Hong is we've got shall we say candor?

You know somebody who's who's going to call it as she sees it It has been during her relatively short time in the state assembly But she has made herself very well known because she does not play the you know go along to get along

kind of thing.

If she thinks that something's wrong, she's gonna say it's wrong.

If she thinks something is baloney, she's gonna call it a word other than baloney.

And what she said on the show today was, you know, this is a time for

bold ideas.

And look, all all all the candidates who are in right now, the top four Democratic candidates are solid progressives and Democrats.

But you know, in terms of the tone that they're going to take and the strategy that they're going to take to try to win over votes, they will not be cookie cutter going

forward.

As a former Democratic state legislator, Pat, give me your view on this.

My opinion as a former Republican is

Politically speaking probably makes it the toughest on Sarah Rodriguez with this announcement because in Milwaukee the two biggest Democratic counties biggest boat getters are Dane where Madison is at and Milwaukee County and state are

County executive David Crowley Milwaukee has announced the mayor there Kevlar Johnson has endorsed him that kind of solidifies Milwaukee County in a certain way in my opinion now in Dane now you have it split between State Senator Keller Royce state representatives state representative Francesca Hong it was seen that Lieutenant Governor Sarah Rodriguez now her big place to get votes is gonna be all the out-state Democrats which is which is harder harder and more expensive to get

I know, but allow me to put my fingers together like a super villain and say, just as I planned it, because the only way to win now, if you're splitting the Dane County vote, and if you're splitting the Milwaukee area vote is get in the car and come talk to the rest of us up here.

And that's exactly what these candidates have been doing.

And what they have to do now, they can no longer put something in their back pocket.

You know, David Crawley can't put Milwaukee in his back pocket with Sarah Rodriguez there.

Kelder Rice can't

Madison in her back pocket with Fran there.

And so they've got to get out and about like crazy for the next 11 months.

I thoroughly believe that they will.

They're going to run into crowds, some of whom are, you know, as dyed in the wool Democrats as you would find in Dane or Milwaukee County.

And it's going to be tempting to think, okay, well, a far left message is what's going to help me win the primary.

And then they're going to go talk someplace else.

Then they're going to be reminded that there's a whole lot of other Wisconsin that

does not want things to go too far to the left or too far to the right.

And so some of these candidates are going to specialize in taking a more moderate path, seeing that as the ultimate, you know, key to success.

Others are going to say, Nope, you got to go big and bold.

And I am here for all of it.

I think it's going to be a great primary.

And Trig, we also like to speak for yourself, but you sit on this program before the, you know, the two Democrats, you said that you'd be going when we willing to go knock on doors for where Lieutenant Governor Sarah Rodriguez and State Senator Kelder Royce.

because they've done exactly what Pat has said, which has gotten to places outside of Madison, Milwaukee.

Yeah, 100%.

I'll have to be walking.

I'm knocking on a lot of doors.

I'd

prefer to do that up somewhere in St.

Craig County, though.

I bet they'd let you do that.

I'd be of more use.

Actually, in the Democratic primary, though, in St.

Craig County, I might not be of any use.

But

maybe

I need to do it somewhere where I'm not known.

But politically, Trevi, although former Republican, you know this state well politically.

And what's your opinion on the early, early, or we're over a while, I guess, under a year from the primary next fall.

But what do you think of the makeup so far on the Democratic side?

I

mean, here's a, yeah.

As I said to somebody who asked me one time about Democratic primaries, I don't know a lot about winning Democratic primaries.

If you're a Republican primary, I could probably tell you a thing or two, but not a Democrat one.

But what I would say is they have a bunch of diverse voices that are gonna be, and they're getting more candidates all the time.

That actually is not a bad thing.

Yes, it's less consolidation and whatever.

But Democrats need to have a lot of voices traveling around the state, showing who they are, showing that they're not just a bunch of, they're not the stereotype that Republicans and MAGA try and make them into, that they're not out crossing the state saying, we need trans athletes playing at every level or whatever.

I mean a million different things like that that they're going to be talking about issues like the University of Wisconsin system the Wisconsin idea how that's the heart and soul of communities like the you know the the Fox River Valley with Green Bay or my hometown of River Falls or Pat in the Chippewa Valley or the Coulee region right like they need people talking about high school

about public school funding.

They need people talking about environmentalism and protecting our environment so that we have places to go deer hunting.

And they're gonna have people that are doing that.

And hopefully they can stay away from the attacks on each other and really not get dragged into, and this is funny, because I'm a consultant and I have a plane to catch when you have a problem, Pat, or Todd.

But the truth is, hopefully instead of...

attacking each other, they can stay really, really focused on talking about the issues that matter and let the cards fall where they may in terms of who is the ultimate nominee.

And just

to clean up your comments, I know what you meant, Trigby, but just in case people are listening, you're not saying the other trans-athlete issue.

You're not saying that's what the Democratic platform is.

You're saying that's what Republicans in MAGA are going to try to brand them as correct.

Well, I mean, those

ads are all right.

They're running them again.

They're running them.

Abigail Spanberger.

I mean, I do have some insights into what their playbook is going to be for her.

for governor's raises, because I'm sitting here watching one in Virginia.

You know, they got Winston Earl Sears, who she could give Tom Tiffany or Derek Van Orton a run for their money.

You know, Abby Spanberger literally was a decorated CIA agent.

And I didn't know, I don't know her, but I know of her from people that I know that were in that line of work.

She had a sterling reputation and literally all they've got

is saying that she's going to be letting trans athletes be playing in Virginia sports cross country.

I

mean across state.

The

most valuable

words.

The most valuable words any Democratic candidate can have for the next, you know, year plus is there you go again.

And then steer say, you know, we're not here to talk about here to talk about the fact that, you know, health insurance costs are being jacked up, grocery prices haven't come down, and so forth and so on.

You stick to that and don't get knocked off your game by that same divisive ridiculousness, then they're going to be okay.

We're talking with Pat Critello of Mornings of Pat Critello every morning from six until nine across the network.

And Trig V. Olson, Senior Advisor at the Lincoln Project.

When we come back, Matt is on the line.

He has a question, says he gets hot burning for Trig V. Olson.

We'll listen to that.

Uh-oh.

And also, could a lot of today's issues be summed up in a musical?

We'll have the answer to that as well.

The other side, don't go anywhere.

It's Pat, Trig V. and Todd with the Civic Media.

Ready to

work?

dreadful things.

I've heard of an ox, a professor from Quox, no longer permitted to teach, who has lost all powers of speech.

And an owl in munchkin lock, a figure with a thriving flock forbidden to preach.

Now he only can stretch.

Only rumors, but still enough to give pause to anyone with pause.

Something bad is happening in Oz.

Something bad happening in us.

Under the surface.

From behind the scenes.

Something bad.

Wicked.

Something bad is happening in us.

Sorry.

Maybe you didn't, not from this show, it's the original, how the origin story of Wizard of Oz and Wicked Witch of West and Glenda the Good Witch.

In this, before she becomes the Wicked Witch, Elphabaug meeting with this professor who happens to be a goat, I think.

And in this show, it's normal that

Animals can speak.

And they say, wait, something terrible is happening.

So these are the lyrics quickly.

The things you hear these days, dreadful things.

I've heard of an ox, a professor from Quax, who is no longer permitted to teach, who has lost all powers of speech.

An owl and munchkin rock a vicar with a thriving flock, forbidden to preach.

Now he can only screech his only rumors, but enough to give pause with anybody with pause.

Pat Kratlow, a little goofy I know, but unfortunately has a lot of pertinence in today with what is going to fall out.

I don't want to get too far down into the Charlie Kirk story.

But now we have people that has come to Wisconsin through all matters of vocations who are being suspended and fired from their jobs because they dare speak out.

And let me start off by saying I completely renounce all forms of violence, full stop.

I renounce all forms of political violence, full stop.

But many of these things people are putting on their social media are direct quotes from Charlie Kirk that are the truth and has nothing to do with an opinion on whether he should have died or not, and

they're being fired pat.

We're at the point where we frankly don't even have to give those disclaimers anymore, because as heinous as the Charlie,

God, it's been a long week, hasn't it?

As heinous as that assassination has been.

We are rapidly rising in the terms of seriousness given the way and forgive the, I don't know other way to use this, that people like Derek Van Orden are starting to use the First Amendment like toilet paper.

It is shocking.

It is it is alarming to see somebody start with a few angry social media posts.

But the anger has not subsided.

The taste for blood and vengeance has not subsided.

The obscenities and the emotional lack of maturity turn on and on celebrating that people are being

fired, they're being singled out, they're being threatened, they're being defunded within his own congressional district.

The things that the congressman from the third district is doing right now have crossed the line, they are anti-American.

And now Charlie Kirk has is now

rapidly becoming a separate entity to this.

I am sorry for his loss.

I am sorry that he feels that this is the path he has to go down, but he has chosen a wrong path.

Somewhere past 500 tweets, and he's closing in on a thousand.

He has turned his social media feed into something out of Big Brother, one of the telescreens that is monitoring people.

And if you dare stray from what the party wants, you will be disappeared.

That's the kind of thing he wants.

He doesn't want to be a congressman anymore.

He wants to be chief of police, chief of the thought police for the third district.

And it is past time that other Republicans told him, you're starting to make all of us look bad, pal.

Trivio

Olsen, you've talked about something called cognitive dissidence.

I know that's a big term for a lot of people, including me.

I just say it's about looking yourself in the mirror.

But to Pat's point, one of the things that Derek Van Orden did congressman this week was call on

the complete defunding of federal dollars to go to the second largest municipality in his congressional district, the city of Eau Claire, because two council members put something on their socials that were, by the way, simply quotes of what Charlie Kirk had said with no commentary and politically, Trigvie, don't you think most people in Eau Claire, Eau Claire County, if you said, look, even if you disagree with someone, why cut off all the funding to the entire city?

Because you've got a bone to pick with two people.

It doesn't make political sense, Trigvie.

No, it does make political sense and I don't know.

He's a little unhinged You know, I think there is some irony in the fact that you have people who wrap themselves in their service Who are currently and I'm not just citing any one individual but who wrap themselves in their service to the country which is an incredibly noble thing who are now

advocating for things that are directly antithetical to what has made America great and what has made America exceptional and the values that they stood and fought for.

And quite frankly that our grandparents stood or our great grandparents stood and fought for in places like Iwo Jima in Pointe du Hoc and the beaches of Normandy and in Baton, it's, I don't know what to say.

They would all be ashamed of what is happening.

They would be

incredibly ashamed.

I just get very concerned when I hear that people are being fired and laid off from their private sector jobs for something they put on social media alone, let alone the fact that it wasn't calling for harm to anybody.

It wasn't celebrating anybody's death.

It was just putting the truth out there.

And I just think Pat, we're getting into a very dangerous place here.

We are to the point where I have to say, so what?

So what if somebody celebrates it?

The fact that the Attorney General of the United States says that if somebody celebrates somebody else's murder, as stupid and heinous as that is, that's not hate speech that is worthy of the United States government coming down on somebody, either through investigations or defunding.

It's ridiculous.

Again, it's un-American.

And these folks are not doing themselves any favors the longer this drags on.

I'll just leave it at that.

History is not going to look back

kindly

on that.

They are not

going to be seen as the greatest generation.

No, it's much more McCarthy.

Maybe seen as the generation that squandered the gifts that were bestowed to them by the greatest generation.

Yeah,

and they already are.

Tune in to Pat every morning.

He's not always this, you know, intended.

There's music today in history and other things as well.

I'm a nice guy, I promise.

I know.

I like

this, Pat.

Mornings are packed quite well.

Morning from six until nine.

The phone lines are lit up as Matt Flynn.

We see you on the lines.

Do not hang up.

We'll get to your phone calls after this with Trigby Olsen as the all-ball show across Wisconsin.

The Civic Media Ready Network.

Farm News is next.

That's not

gonna take it.

That's not gonna take it.

That's not gonna take it anymore.

Bestest DJ Hands in the West here.

I'm joined by the senior advisor to Lincoln Project, Mr. Trig V. Olson, who joins us from his home in rural Washington, DC.

I like that

one.

Yeah.

I'm going to be there for.

on Core Edition on Friday, live and in the studio, Todd.

I've

heard this.

So you're going to be here with your lovely and talented daughter.

You've been doing a number of tours around the country as your daughter gets ready to go to college, and you have saved your pitch, your official visit to University of Wisconsin, Madison as your last stop.

So we got to put on

the dog.

No, it was not the last

stop.

Really?

I thought it was.

You know what?

Once you've seen Wisconsin, you've seen them all.

I'm in a rare form today.

I'm in a rare form today.

My mic was hot when I was singing along about

Pat.

Pat was a little wound up and rightfully.

So I want to know if Jack is going to get Tommy out there.

So come to Wisconsin.

We got to have you Wisconsin.

Oh, I should.

I should call in a favor.

You should.

I should just get him to record a message.

All right.

I don't need Jack for that.

By the way, Jack, how's your fantasy football team doing this year?

The walk walkers are foreign.

Oh, baby.

That's the name of my team.

The walk

walkers.

That's great.

By the way, I'd have to change it to the cancel culture.

Trigvie, phone lines are lit up for you.

855-752-4842.

855-752-4842.

Before the break, talk with Pat Critello and Trigvie about not specifically about the whole Charlie Kirk assassination, which is terrible and denounce it, but more so the fallout in Wisconsin.

We've seen private and semi-private and public places putting people on leave and firing them for simply putting out factual or truthful information

on their private social media.

And are we getting in a dangerous spot here where First Amendment rights are being trampled on and it's getting to the point where it's all about fear and you gotta watch what you say or you can be plucked off the streets or at least lose your job.

855-752-4842, 855-752-4842.

Matt in Middleton's been waiting a long time.

We appreciate you holding, Matt.

Thanks for calling and listening.

Matt, what's up?

Hey guys, thanks again for what you do My thought I had a family story here personal story that I think is relevant to how we got here as a people going through all this chaos and My brother had a German shepherd that was old its vision was getting bad and it bit me in my arm a really bad bite 16 stitches and There were young kids on the lawn

and my brother called me that evening.

Rather shook in voice, he was upset.

And what he said sticks with me now and forever and is relevant, I think.

He said that the dog biting me in that way, the savage nature of that, seeing the blood, shook him out of his comfort.

It brought him to the real savage nature of reality, of the real world.

And I think to...

Trump at his rally last year when he was running, where he read the poem of the rabbit and the viper, the snake.

And I met CJ from Stoughton at the last social, civic media social thing at Doundrens.

Perfectly nice guy.

I gave him a hug.

We talked.

We can agree on things.

I'd buy him a beer anytime.

Good guy, right?

But he fails to see Trump for the viper he really is.

There's so many people throughout my life that I talk to.

I've been like, you know, the Paul Revere over the last 10 years, trying to tell people the reality of what's happening and how bad it can be.

And as Americans, so many people like my brother were, we're in this comfort zone.

It can't happen to us.

It can't happen to here, blah, blah, blah.

But then when that viper shows its fangs and it bites you like it's doing now,

People like CJ will still not admit the real situation, what's really happening.

The viper for being the viper.

What do you say to that?

What can we do to wake people up to what's really going on?

I appreciate the listenership, Matt, and I appreciate the call.

Trigmeagullet, you respond to that.

And I get it.

There are other voices on this network or whatever that try to pit personalities against personalities.

I don't do that here.

So appreciate all the calls, want you to listen, want you to call in.

But if we could please not call out specific people by name, I just don't want to make this personal to any personal listener on here.

But try to address Matt's overall concern.

I mean, you know, it's something that I've been talking about for a long time.

And that is you have to get people to find the cognitive dissonance.

the incongruence between how they live their lives and what they're advocating for politically.

And this is the thing that people sort of are missing with the state that we're in.

And politics is normal in what I call the game we know.

You know, it's about advocating your position and, Todd, you advocate yours.

we try and come to ultimately some kind of compromise, right?

And in that process, that win-win process, you might stake out a hard line and I might stake out a hard line, but we're really doing that knowing that we're working towards a compromise.

In the game that we're in, it's zero sum.

It's not about the compromise.

And for the people that you're interacting with, they're not necessarily...

Zero some they they assume they're still playing the game that they know the win-win and you have to lead them to understand that and You do it by asking questions that are probing you do it by showing genuine interest in fact Can I give a plug to somebody who listens?

Yeah, please you'll know up so I had the pleasure earlier this week of meeting Adolf Gundersen

Adolf Gunderson wrote a book this book was written back in I don't know but by now 10 12 years ago.

It's called let's talk politics He's the he's the nephew of Adolf Gunderson senior from the Gundersons in La Crosse

which it was awesome talking to him because Adolf Gundersen, who was the chair of the Board of Regents, Dr. Gundersen, they're both Dr. Gundersen, but he used to, when he was chair of the Board of Regents and I was down in Madison, he used to take me out for dinner when he was down there and just talk, he's a huge mentor to me, just a great guy, ran for Congress.

Anyway, the point is made in that book, you know, Adolf...

The nephew is one of the leading experts on that, and he makes the point in the book that it starts with listening to what the other person is saying and trying to understand them.

It's not about just advocating to them.

You're not going to convince somebody by just saying, you know, this, this, and this.

You've got to make it personal to them.

You've got to make them understand that, you know,

I think about a friend back home who's one of the people who, you know, always is going to church and giving money for the immigrants that come and live in River Falls, right?

And yet they're advocating for things that are politically diametrically opposed to that.

The name of the book Trigby Olson is referring to is let's talk politics restoring civility through exploratory discussion by Adolf Gundersen.

I appreciate you bringing that up, Trigby.

Trigby Olson, Lincoln Project joins us.

He would be a really good person, quite honestly, Todd.

I just thank you for the questions you're getting, and actually...

He knew of me because I'm on the Todd Albusher.

How about that?

We always appreciate that.

He didn't know me because he had no idea the connections that were coming.

I used to stay at his uncle's house right across the street and guess what his kid?

He is a kid named.

Trigby.

Yes.

Wow.

That's awesome.

Really?

That's

fantastic.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It made my day.

I'm sure it did.

Somebody said you should talk to this guy and we ended up hooking up.

It was awesome.

That's super cool.

It's being really helpful.

It's something I'm working on.

Is our guest 855-752-4842-855-752-4842.

Let's go to Rick in Waukesha, listening to WAUK.

Rick, thanks for holding us.

Hey, I got something I want to tell you because I heard you mention it, the greatest generation.

I just watched a program on the veterans that are still alive.

a new release thing with 90 year old guys and 101 year old guy and the guy that took out seven pill boxes got a medal and they asked him what do you think of this you're the greatest generation and he said you know what the media made that term and books he said but really I believe we're just a different generation

Wow Wow, yep, that's how he stated it, but that's great

Rick But isn't I'd put that out really appreciate it But oftentimes Trigby and Rick I don't know your experience but often the people that saw and did the worst and the most in in combat say the least

Yeah, and downplay you know he didn't talk until he was 97 years old Wow

a true American hero

Thanks, Rick, for

sharing that.

I'm glad you brought that up.

I'm going to look that up, Rick, for sure.

The bottom line is they did not view themselves as heroes.

I've talked about it before.

When I was growing up as a kid in River Falls, a guy named Pahachek was our mailman who substituted mailman when the regular mailman wasn't able to do it.

And I was doing some research before I wrote my sub-stack for Memorial Day.

People who had served from Murrah Falls.

I was actually looking up another guy that I knew who um had been in baton And uh, I came across pahachik.

It turns out pahachik was one of the boys of pontew hawk Never knew it never would have known that came home farmed and delivered the mail as a reserve mailman

Incredible

huge american hero

true hero

saved.

Yeah But i'll tell you i mean that's the thing Todd And I I think about this from my own experience

Talk about it a lot when I was maybe 28 29 30 I went to Serbia and I it scarred me because I saw People who had lived in peace and harmony next to each other for years.

They'd gone to each other's weddings They were neighbors start killing each other because sort of a slobid on Melosevic was stoking ethnic hatreds from years before

Yeah, yeah,

oh yeah, it can happen.

It can it can totally happen

855-752-4842.

Let's go quickly to Eau Claire, WCFW, the TAP at Eau Claire.

Jean, about a minute and a half, you can get in, please go ahead.

Jean, are you there?

Jean in Eau Claire, 855-752.

We'll put her on hold.

Go to Mark quickly and prayer to sack.

Mark, thanks for holding.

Are you there?

What's to you?

Yeah, I'm here.

You can remember that Derek Van Orden, the reminder there, should benefit Donald was a hero right up to the time he betrayed the country.

that he was a decorated hero until he betrayed the country.

So Derek Van Orden, you know, he doesn't seem to understand that concept that a guy can be a hero one day and betray us all the next day.

And let's remember 1984, the end of 1984, I read this back over 50 years ago.

It still sticks to me, you know, that he loved big brother.

I mean, this is what they expect us to do.

They want to break our spirit and make us love Donald Trump and love the fascism that Donald Trump is bringing to us.

And we cannot let them defeat us.

Yeah.

Appreciate the call mark.

Thank you so very much.

855-752-4842.

855-752-4842.

Trigby, about a minute here left.

And so I'm going to kind of put this out there, give you the couple minutes to think on it, want to come back and pick up.

Because to your point, and I know you kind of, you're humble about this, but it's important.

You've seen some really bad things in Eastern Europe.

You're banned by Putin himself from going into Russia and I am more than one

person wouldn't want to go there anyway

time More than one person came asked me this week and said I want to know from trig v About some of the things that are happening this country some we've already talked about in terms of suppression of speech But also now they released these texts of the alleged shooter in the Charlie Kirk assassination and I don't want to go too far down the hole, but

A lot of things don't add up, and people are losing faith in institutions.

And what does that mean for America moving forward?

Can I ask that to trigger me after this?

Don't go anywhere.

It's the Todd Alvarez Show on the Civic Media Ready Network.

wherever it may lead and having fun doing it.

Welcome back to the title of all show on the Civic Media Ready Network.

Now, eight minutes before the hour of four o'clock at the top of the hour, ABC or CPS News, depending on which of our great stations you're listening to.

Followed by Czech and weather.

Mike Clemens, great sports report.

Brewer's got another win last night.

Magic number down to seven now for the NL Central.

Cubs also won yesterday.

Last check.

The Cubs were tied in their game today.

Brewers back underway tonight.

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Also a good time to remind you that Civic Media has launched a brand new daily email.

newsletter on Substack and will connect you to all of the terrific content we produce every day across the network.

It's called Civic Media Today and it's free to subscribe.

So check it out at Substack now.

Apparently lots of raggling over Universal NBC over the use of the word today.

But apparently we paid them off or something.

So it is called Civic Media Today.

And the cool thing is if you open it the next day,

It's called Civic Media yesterday.

So that's a nice feature.

You can find it.

If you

somehow get an early edition, it could be Civic Media tomorrow.

Tomorrow, exactly.

But it's a deal, Todd.

It's free.

It's free.

It's at Civic Media.

In a world where

there's no such thing as a free lunch.

It's a free lunch.

And check out Treg Vilsen at his sub-stack as well for all of his great writing.

I

know, I haven't been writing as much recently.

Look, I want to get to this, not a lot of time left, but I don't want to go too far down the rabbit hole.

I'll be careful about this, Trig V. But I've heard it from a lot of other people that I respect.

And I know you haven't, in fairness, you've been tied up with a project.

And actually, I'm glad to hear you haven't been in the minutiae of the Charlie Kirk assassination.

But in the charging documents yesterday,

The authorities, the local authorities of Utah and the FBI released what they alleged to be texts after the assassination between the accused shooter and his romantic partner.

And they use phrase, and this is a 22 year old kid using phrases like, quote, I'm still okay, my love.

And the whole thing just doesn't do a lot of people.

It's like, and in Zomber said he's 26.

And after the show, he's like, I read it and that doesn't seem like anything a 22 year old.

The vernacular isn't right.

And so people are saying the FB, the same FBI that told us they met privately with Jolaine Maxwell and she said she cleared Donald Trump of all the Epstein stuff and then got a deal for a cushy prison is the same FBI who's telling us this is what happened in the Charlie Kirk assassination.

And a lot of people are saying, how can I.

now trust my institutions.

And Trigley, as you've traveled the world, I think that's a dangerous spot to be in now.

And I'm not defending those institutions, by the way.

I'm just saying we've reached this point that I think is very detrimental and dangerous to American democracy.

Incredibly dangerous.

I mean, trust and faith in institutions is massive.

I mean...

You know, there's Richard Nixon got a lot of things wrong.

He did get right.

Americans have to know if their president is a crook.

So, yeah, I mean, the erosion of trust in institutions, the idea that, you know, basically the U.S.

Congress, state legislators, slatures across the country have just become two partisan camps.

Um And you know it kind of becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy Todd in a way because the people that want to go and try and do things rather than be someone They they don't want to be in the process anymore because there's no opportunity to do things across party lines and work with the other side and so what you end up with and I

I have to give him credit.

Tommy Thompson used to always say, two kinds of politicians, those who want to be and those who want to do and you want the kinds who want to do, whether you agree with them or not, we're getting less and less of them.

I

mean, I don't, you know, to take this full circle.

I don't know what Derek Van Odd won.

I don't know what he exactly wants to do.

It's clear he likes to be, but

I'm wondering what it is that he wants to do and who is he reaching out to work across the aisle to do things with.

I think in Wisconsin and all across the country, really, that's going to be a central point of conversation between now and the next elections.

And we're seeing it all over.

I mean, the redistricting mid-cycle to improve your party's chances.

The U.S.

Congress is supposed to be about all of us, whether you voted for the person or not.

The person who's representing people in Congress isn't representing a political party.

They're supposed to be representing or even the country as a whole.

They're supposed to be representing the people of the congressional district or the legislative district that they were sent to represent.

And if we can't figure that out and we don't seem to be able to, then

We're a lost cause and and quite frankly To take it full circle.

I don't think people realize how dangerous it is You know, my wife is back over in Lithuania because her mother isn't doing well There's Russian drones flying into NATO airspace all the time now.

Yeah work We it isn't people who think that that they're scared to see what it's like to have America without democracy They're asking the wrong question

What they should really be afraid of is seeing what a world looks like when America's light of freedom and democracy has been extinguished.

What that looks like, because the past before World War Two was one filled with not a lot of prosperity, far less prosperity, and a lot of dead people.

Always

a pleasure to trick Vy Olsen to have you on.

That wasn't really very pleasant.

It was because you gave great insight.

What are you doing at 235 on Friday?

235 on Friday.

Billy Mack is gonna be on president and founder of the Jamesville Jets because they're opening their brain.

They're kicking it off.

I know what I'm doing now.

I'm coming on with you Billy.

We are talking hockey baby.

You can hear him on Friday and next Wednesday as well.

Send me a text, remind me.

Thank you.

Appreciate it

Triggy.

See you on Friday.

From the Civic Media World Headquarters in Madison, Wisconsin, it's the Todd Alba Show.

And now, pursuing truth wherever it may lead, here's your host, Todd Alba.

Good afternoon, everybody.

Ta-da!

Along with Mr. Aaron Zummer's on the board.

It is six minutes past the hour of three o'clock on this Wednesday, September 17th, 2025.

It is a great day to be an American and also in Wisconsinite.

And it is... It's one of those days.

I'm not quite right.

I'm not quite right a little off today.

Here at the World Headquarters of Civic Media Downtown, Madison.

Blue skies, a little overcast, Britney Merleau, our meteorologist, saying a little bit more of that smoke coming in.

I'm laughing because stream artists set things up differently and everything looks different on the stream today.

But look at that for those watching on the stream, Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Twix, Twix, Twitter, X.

beautiful sky in downtown Madison on State Street at the Overture Center across the street there, the intersection of Fairchild and State Street.

Beautiful, look at that.

This is a great day to go for a fall-autumn walk, get out there and enjoy the sights and sounds.

Absolutely fantastic, Mr. Zombers.

How are you?

Doing well.

It's good to have Pat and Trickby on.

As Trigby said, Pat's not going to take it anymore.

He was a little salty.

Well,

and well, he should be, right?

Lots, lots going on in the country and always glad to have Pat's taken.

And Trigby is as well on your phone calls.

Appreciate all the phone calls, calling and listing in.

It's so busy the first hour that we really didn't get to one of the things I really wanted to talk about, which is fine.

All the things we talked about were important, but.

Through all the other things out there in national politics right now what is going under the radar a little bit is the fact that by the way There's still actually government business Happening out in Washington DC or

like that

or lack thereof or lack thereof and it has to do with the fact There is a deadline fast approaching at the end of this month or the government will shut down federal government gonna shut down

And we haven't talked a lot, if any, about this because of breaking news of the day.

Here is a quiz question for you, Zombers.

And our writer, pro bono I might add, a researcher, TJ, has sent me this and I went out of my way to make sure that I did not see the answer and I printed it off so I could give my honest opinion.

And I've left the printed copy on my desk and so I'm like, I'll pull it up on the email and now I've seen the answer.

So I can't participate.

But I'll ask you, Congress has until September 30th to pass all 12 of its annual spending bills.

When was the last time lawmakers met the deadline without resorting to temporary spending measures?

Was it A, 2020, B, 2016, C, 2003,

or D, 1996.

Again, I'll read it one more time.

Congress has until September 30th to pass all 12 of its annual spending bills.

When was the last time lawmakers met the deadline without resorting to temporary spending measures?

2020, 2016, 2003, or 1996?

I hope I'm wrong, but I'm gonna guess 96.

All right.

Would have it without looking without if I hadn't seen the answer which unfortunately I did I would have guessed 20-03 The correct answer 1996 well done mr. Zomers

I just, I mean, at first, I didn't know it was going to be multiple choice.

I was going to pick a year in the 80s or 90s.

And then you said one that was in the 90s and I'm like, all right, we'll go with that.

Well done, Zomers.

Yes, 1996, Congress has not met its deadline for passing a regular appropriations bills to fund the government's operations since it approved spending for the 1997 fiscal year, which was October 1996.

and through September 1997.

So in September 1996, since then lawmakers have insisted passing temporary measures called continuing resolutions, which fund the government on an interim basis until the regular spending bills have been completed.

If Congress fails to pass either of the required spending bills or continuing resolutions, the government could shut down.

To date, none, zero,

Zilch of the 12 bills have been passed and Congress has virtually no chance of completing the funding process before the deadline.

To put that into context, our friend, my former boss, United States Congressman Scott Kluge, the last time that Congress passed a budget was when Kluge voted on it in 1996.

We got to get him back there.

Right?

Clug for Congress dust off the green and white.

It's just

You know back when politicians could make compromises right as you've said before with a lot of the people you've worked for and other people you've known in Congress or the Senate at state and national levels They would argue on the floor and then afterwards say you son of a gun.

You really got me good now Let's actually figure this thing out.

Yeah, and I think that's why

And, and by the way, the lost in the middle podcast with our friend Scott Kluge is still available instead of the media and wherever you get your podcast lost in the middle with Scott Kluge.

This is part of his frustration of the current iteration of government, the current iteration of Congress on both sides, by the way, because he comes at it from a viewpoint when, by the way, he was in the minority party.

for part of his term in Congress and in the majority party for part of his Congress.

And Bill Clinton was president and he was Republican.

And still back in 1990, think of that.

You had Newt Gingrich's speaker.

You had Bill Clinton as president, but yet they were able to pass a budget.

And that was the last time it happened in America.

So think of that.

all through George W's term as president, all through Barack Obama's term as president, the first Trump presidency, the Biden presidency, and now in the second Trump presidency, all of those people, and obviously passing a budget starts in Congress, so you can't lay all the blame on the executive on the president.

But think of the different speakers, people that have been speaker.

John Boehner.

In fact, I should correct myself.

Bader might have been speaker win in 96 with that budget pass.

Newt might have been out as speaker by then.

But then he had Nancy Pelosi.

He had Paul Ryan.

He had Nancy Pelosi again.

Now you got Mike McCarthy or Mike McCarthy.

Kevin McCarthy.

Now wait a minute, I think I'm onto something here.

I think Congress could operate better with Mike McCarthy as speaker than it did with Kevin McCarthy as speaker.

I mean, as a football coach, they actually have to respect the clock.

Mike McCarthy won a Super Bowl.

How about that?

No, he did, didn't he?

Yeah, no, he did.

No, no, no, Holmgren won this one.

Holmgren and... No, McCarthy did, didn't he?

with Aaron Rodgers.

McCarthy was a coach when, or Trigby should be here, when Aaron Rodgers won the Super Bowl.

In 2011, McCarthy led the team to a

win.

See?

My brain is quite as bad as I think it is sometimes.

But yeah, you got a Super Bowl winning coach, he could at least wrangle together Congress.

There, I've hit on it, ladies and gentlemen, inadvertently.

Yeah,

you've got somebody who actually loses their job when they don't meet deadlines.

One of our friends listening in just texted me and she said, yes, he won a Super Bowl.

She has she has season tickets so she should know But yes, yeah, so I think that I think Mike McCarthy a speaker would be better than a Kevin MacArthur My point is that that you can't blame this this government shutdown on one party or the other or one president from a party or another Because none of them have been able to get their act together since 1996

So that's a little I and I think we need to spend more time on this moving forward because this is going to impact potentially every Wisconsinite and my thoughts always go into our military first and foremost Because a lot of them aren't going to get paid or a partial pay or delayed.

You've got government employees in this federal workers in this state It's gonna be harder to get passports approved and visas approved And I don't you know, he always gets to the brink and then somehow they figure it out

Don't know.

I don't know where this is going, but I think it needs to be talked about more and more people being made aware of it Alright 16 coming up on 16 past the hour of 3 o'clock time once again for what's worse.

Let's go

Time once again for what's worse.

Nothing to give away, no prize, money involved, but it is your chance to have your voice heard on all 10 civic media news, sports, talk stations across the great state of Wisconsin.

As Mike Clemens, Mike Clemens, Mike Lucas says, I can't get anybody's name right.

I can't get anybody's name right today.

I'm going to the game tonight, by the way.

I'm Mika Padres, Curtin Floresy, and my buddy Rob.

We're going down to Milwaukee to try to cheer them on.

Yes, the Brewer's game, even though we were just talking about Packers.

Yes, that is correct.

I

think I'm thinking about the game instead of the show.

Get your head in the game, Todd.

All right, as Mike Lucas says, timely, timely indeed, because, you know, you're going to be going out to games, football games, as Trigby Olson said, high school games, and maybe you get a bad concession burger.

or a bad broad or something like that.

Or maybe you got a little kid and they poo poo their diaper.

What's worse, bad smell or bad taste?

Bad, the category today, bad smell or bad taste?

855-752-4842, 855-752-4842.

What's worse, a bad smell or a bad taste?

Give us a ring.

eight, five, five, seven, five, two, four, eight, four, two, or you can text us on the Civic Media app.

Go to your favorite Apple or Android device, the app store in the search bar, type in civic CIVC media, takes only a minute.

It's free to download it.

The Civic Media app.

It's what CBS's Gale King calls a deal.

The Civic Media app.

Get it today.

You're going to want it, by the way, speaking of the brewers, our final free ticket Friday ticket at Stravaganza contest.

The lawyers hate it when I say that it's just called free ticket Friday.

You text in we give you a word you text it in it starts with quite low then with Jane McNair by the way I I have closed a deal with Jane McNair today She is going to start appearing on the program on Mondays now.

We're gonna call it something along Matt near Mondays and Our first I think I can say this now our first one a week from this coming Monday last Monday September is going to be live from Jane's English Garden

So I'm looking

fancy.

I'm looking forward to that nervous anticipation So you could be on Friday quite low Jane and Greg then you listen to Tom Hartman He'll sell you some crypto and give you a word and then we come on and then you got a Maggie Dawn and the dishwasher word to I

think

this time.

Yes

I don't know.

We're about to brief on this tomorrow.

The contest has been happening all summer long.

We've gotten to the final week and I don't know whether Schwabba gives you it for the free ticket Friday or not.

But it'll be great.

So download the Seven Media app and have your chance to win a free ticket to the four free tickets to the club level.

Brewer seats.

The red hot magic number is seven for the crew.

down in the walkie.

855-752-4842.

What's worse, bad smell or bad taste?

PJ, watching on the stream on YouTube says, well, if it smells bad, it probably tastes bad also.

Yeah,

smell is a big part of taste.

All

right, come back.

We'll take more of your calls, texts as well.

What's worse, bad smell or bad taste?

You'll see the title ball show across Wisconsin on the Civic Media Radio Network.

You are but don't

MediaRated Network and the title will show it is now 22 past the hour of three o'clock on Wednesday, September 17th, 2025.

Bad taste, bad smell.

That's the question.

Maybe a different kind of bad taste.

What's worse, the category today, bad smell or bad taste.

Give us your opinion.

Give us a call.

855-752-4842.

855-752-4842.

Or you can text us on the aforementioned Civic Media app.

Cindy.

Listening in Warsaw on WXCO on the app says I think bad smell is worse Bad taste you can usually get out of your mouth But a bad smell can be in your clothes and your hair and stay in your nose for a very long time Back when I was in high school

My sister made a pasta with vodka sauce and for some reason the vodka sauce bothered me so much It was it may be absolutely nauseated.

I haven't been able to smell it or eat it ever since Wow must have been pretty bad, but isn't that try me?

I think that smell is our is our sense that can just Hit us the most right it I

don't remember exactly

I don't remember the exact, you know, information, but I do know that it is very strongly tied to memory as well.

Like you can smell cookies and be like, wow, I feel like I'm three years old in my grandma's kitchen.

Right,

right.

It's triggering for both good and bad memories, right?

Yeah, I absolutely believe that.

Len in Madison, listening to the MDX says, I'd say bad smell is worse due to source and remedy, maybe.

may not be as easy to remedy as bad taste.

All right, very good.

Appreciate that, Lynn.

Matt in Middleton saying bad smell is worse, because if it's bad enough, you can also taste it.

That is true.

Eric, newer listener in Madison and MDX.

Thank you, Eric, for tuning in saying bad taste for sure is worse.

All right, very good.

What's worse bad smell or bad taste 8 5 5 7 5 2 4 8 4 2 8 5 5 7 5 2 4 8 4 2 Brett in beautiful brown deer listing in a w8 UK Says bad smell is worse because it's something if something tastes bad I can't stop tasting it

or I can't stop.

Oh,

I'm

sorry again, but let a skunk spray and it'll make you puke

Ever had a pet that got sprayed by a skunk?

Thankfully, no.

That sounds awful.

One of my grandparents on the farm, one of the dogs got sprayed once.

It was not good at all.

What's worse, bad smell or bad taste?

8-5-5-7-5-2-4-8-4-2.

8-5-5-7-5-2-4-8-4-2.

Zombers,

bad smell or bad taste, what's worse?

It's a bit of a tough one because my sense of smell

is not good.

Really?

Yeah, it's really not great.

I won't be laughing because we worked together for three years almost, and still I've learned new things about

you.

That's true.

I guess what I mean by that is I can smell things, but I get stuffed up easily from allergies, and then I don't smell things.

So for me, I guess I do agree with the logic of people saying a bad smell is worse.

It's just, for me, it's more often that I can't ignore it.

It's all right.

I don't know.

Let's go to the fold lines quickly.

855-752-4842.

855-752-4842.

Let's head out to the old hometown, Richland Center, the driftless area listening on W-R-C-E, Whistler.

In Richland Center, Whistler, bad smell or bad taste, what's worse?

This is worse, you know?

the bad smells like the road between golf and R.C.

with the farm spread and stuff.

You know, I can get through that.

You know, bad taste.

It's like, I don't know.

I'm not really sure how to get rid of it other than a glass of milk.

That's a good point.

Good point.

I see Whistler and I are from the same, I know exactly the exact spot he's talking about.

You

get there on

the wrong day and people are spreading manure.

It's tough for about five miles.

But I appreciate it, Widdler.

They 557-524842 Ollie up in the beautiful North Woods of Wisconsin.

Ollie, bad smell or bad taste, what's worse?

Well, I guess I'm gonna say it can be different for different things.

Bad smell is definitely worse when it comes to Limburger cheese because you can't get past the smell that even tastes that.

And a trick for all those people who can't get rid of the smell in their nose

Um, if you take a piece of cloth or clothing and just breathe through it a bit, that will take that scent out of your nose.

Oh, well, there you go.

News you can use.

And it does

work.

All right.

Well, I appreciate that.

Ollie, thank you very much.

See, just a good old homegrown tail right there.

I appreciate it.

Ollie up in the Northwoods.

I'm going to say for reasons that others have given, overall bad smell is worse because I do think, like, if I have a bad taste in my mouth, you know,

Whatever I can water milk whatever

it is.

It'll it passes more quickly in my opinion then a bad smell is just like, you know Especially you got some of their refrigerator that went bad and you can't find it.

Oh

That sucks.

It's just like where it what it what is this all right?

Let's go quickly to Mike out in beautiful spring green along the Wisconsin River listening to W RCE and RC Mike bad smell or bad taste.

What's

worse?

call until that lady mentioned Limburger.

And the thing is, if you can get it past your nose, it tastes wonderful.

And once it's in your mouth, you don't smell it anymore.

That's a good point.

I've had Limburger down at Baumgartner's in Monroe.

You're right.

Once you taste it, yeah, but you got to get past the smell.

Thank you, Michael.

I never had

it.

I never smelled it either.

Yeah, it ain't pretty to smell, but the taste is like, okay.

All right.

Farm News is next with Pam Yonkey.

That's, by the way, how we play what's worse.

We'll have another edition tomorrow.

Gonna come back, gotta hear from Christian Yelich about his home run last night and the Brewer's Chances of wrapping up the NL Central.

And also some good news for you.

Olympic speed skater Jordan Stoltz is back on the ice after a serious bike crash in June.

Great story from the Journal Sentinel.

Gonna share that with you on the other side.

You're listening to Cross Wisconsin to the title.

on the Civic Media, ready to work.

It is now 35 minutes past the hour of three o'clock of this Wednesday, September 17th, 2025 at the world headquarters of Civic Media in beautiful downtown Madison on the intersection of State Street and Fairchild.

I guess I'm distracted because we have this beautiful window that we look out on every day during the show, and it's such a beautiful day.

It is very nice outside.

I'm looking forward to get out there.

That's why I wore this shirt today from Kimberly Kimbo, the musical, says life is short, enjoy the ride.

It's a great reminder to each of us that none of us know how long we get here.

Right?

And we should seize the day every day.

Enjoy the ride.

And the cool thing is it doesn't have to be expensive stuff.

Just get out and enjoy the weather.

All right?

All kinds of people laying in hospitals and other places who would give anything to be able to go out and enjoy a day like today.

So go out there and enjoy it for them.

That's that's my opinion.

Just I'm looking at myself by the way, right?

I Have to be more grateful for the small things in life.

It'll make us all feel better just like Kira told us yesterday All right, I get to the story on the Olympic speed skater, but here's the deal.

I'm gonna open this up for I probably shouldn't but I'm gonna open this up for conversation because Zombers has found his story on e-bombs world

We've been discussing it on the secret show as we call it the during the stream you see you can tune in on Facebook YouTube Twitter and We keep the mics open most of the time when the cameras on and you get to see what we're really like When we're not quote-unquote on the air I'll save you the trouble not dramatically different by the way Pretty much the same and so tomorrow tomorrow in the radio world it starts the book

The book is starting tomorrow.

In TV, they call it the sweeps.

In other words, it's when the ratings start.

And some people get an actual book.

Do you have to keep a diary?

Other people, there's like electronic device.

And then all the stations and programs are rated.

And this is what drives advertising in radio today.

So tomorrow, the book starts.

And so, you know, they want us to get interesting people and draw you in.

So our ratings are big.

And so I'm thinking Zommerers came up on this over the break.

Zommerers, be careful.

But in general form, just tell us what you've got here.

And the question is, should we have this?

person on the show.

All right.

So

I

love

every part about this, by the way.

So eBombs World, we have Peter Rapine, their managing editor

on very

often.

Website full of just ridiculous stories, crazy things, all

true.

Real

headlines from real actual humans.

Yes.

And recently, they have expanded their content, their programming to include a spicy side of the website, which contains content.

generally not suitable for broadcasts or children or work, you know, those kind of things.

Not

safe

for work.

And so eBombs World posted today from their extra spicy newsletter that went out yesterday.

2025 is officially the year of the hot wife and famed MILF and award-winning adult performer Serenity Cox COX is ready for it.

She's an adult performer.

Essentially, one of the companies that she works for has launched a new brand specifically dedicated to ethical non-monogamy.

Ethical non-monogamy.

And she had an interview with E-bombs World.

And yeah, where they go about... Was she clothed during the interview?

I don't know.

I'm just reading it.

I don't think it's a video.

I think it was just...

written.

Don't open it up on company time.

Now, I mean, I I'm thinking that would draw for better or worse.

I think people would want to watch that.

It would be interesting

discussion during the book.

What I think, though, is if we're going to have this discussion with Serenity Cox, we need to also invite Joe Gao.

Maybe not at the same time.

We're not trying

to make for those that aren't familiar We've talked about this on the show before former University of Wisconsin lacrosse Chancellor professor Joe gow he and his wife have a cooking show with adult content included

yes, and he is a has been an advocate that it is free speech right and

He had some adult performers or at least I don't know exactly he had an adult performer come and give a talk about that business at the University and he got fired for it right and Because you know people are like oh you're using it to promote your other business or oh this is in a free speech.

This is your I don't know.

It's it's an interesting subject.

I'm

sure he has

a lot to say about it.

I'm like

If it's get ready, you never know what's gonna happen on the show is starting tomorrow for the next few weeks.

It's the book is the sweeps So you'll let us know if you think should we have spent what's her name Spencer Cox?

Serenity serenity.

I think Spencer Cox is the governor at Utah

Hey, you are correct.

Would that be great if we had Spencer Cox and Serenity Cox on the same show?

Now that would be an interesting conversation, especially if you don't tell them that the other one's coming.