United Wisconsin: What Is Fusion Voting? (Hour 1)

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Here's your host, Todd Albaugh.

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Good afternoon, everybody.

I'm Todd Albaugh, along with Mr. Aaron Zommers, our producer and engineer.

It is six past the hour of 12 noon on this Wednesday, April 16th, 2025.

It is a great day to be Wisconsinite, and it

is

pump day.

There you go.

We made it to another half of week, Mr. Somers on a sunny sky in the world headquarters downtown Madison, Wisconsin.

It's going to be a beautiful day.

Probably one of the best days of the week rain coming in tomorrow.

Maybe some snowflakes here and there and Friday as well.

Some severe weather, but then Easter weekend Saturday looks like the better one.

Sunday, maybe a few raindrops, but the big bun.

as we used to call it our host, the bunny.

He'll he'll make it.

He'll get the eggs where they where they need to be.

So hopefully you have a very safe and blessed Easter holiday with you and yours to those who celebrate, of course, to our Jewish listeners as well.

Pass over this past weekend beginning.

So a reflective time of year, Mr. Zombers, but spring is in the air.

Spring certainly is in the air.

Yeah, absolutely.

It certainly is.

Big show today.

Big show last to get to in hour number two at one thirty Tara Ariano is back been a while

since we've heard it has been I don't know like nine months long time she had no one

had

a baby

but yes it's

been about maybe I should have picked

a different

number but no Tara's back an expert in television a national figure in in and of herself with people in her organization talking about the highs and lows so far in 2025 of television

Maybe we'll talk about white lotus just got done with their run a lot of network TV shows ending the Their run as well for the years.

I'll talk to Tara about what's happening in television in hour number two as well another what's worse addition a Hard Rock Edition, which I will tell you I was not a hard rock guy kid growing up I just I don't know I guess I was more of a country guy and pop and that sort of thing but talking about the who and Led Zeppelin

So of course people are gonna get a little salty about this, but we'll we'll talk about that our number two as well and then Also, we're in a little bit later here.

I'm very very excited about this I even made news on Pat Crite Lowe's show this morning He had never heard a fusion voting and this is great because Pat hadn't no he hadn't that surprises me because he knows everything right No, he would he and so he might be listening who knows but anyway a fusion voting and this is great because

With all the turmoil happening in politics in the state and the country, how often people call or text it and say, Todd, what can we do about this?

Well, here we got a couple of guys in the studio today that are going to tell us there is something we can do.

It's called fusion voting.

Very, very, very interesting.

Not like ranked choice exactly.

but I think it has a way to possibly empower people that might not be part of the big two, so to speak, Republican and Democrats.

We have former Democratic Dane County Sheriff Dave Mahoney and former Republican state Senate Majority Leader Dale Schultz in the studio.

But first, the lost had been found.

He is somewhere in America in a secure undisclosed location, a Wisconsin boy like myself, a former Republican like myself, and now one of the senior advisors at the Lincoln Project,

Trigvie Olson somewhere in America joins us by phone.

Trigvie, how the heck are you?

I'm good.

I'm at the bookstore at the University of Tennessee today, Tom.

The University of the Vowels?

The Vowels?

The Vowels.

We're getting some swag.

Woolen just did a visit, and so we've got to get a little bit of swag.

Well, this just shows you want a great dad.

I'm not joking around.

As Joe Biden says, I'm not joking around.

Trigvie is a great dad.

because here you are taking your daughters, you're doing a little university tour.

Now I said to you this morning, this could all be done very quickly if she would just commit to Wisconsin.

Well, you know what?

Wisconsin is definitely on the list, Todd, but we

had

to, we had to do a little road trip.

You know, you've got to kind of find out what your options are before you can, um, before you can know for sure.

So we, uh, we're doing a bunch of schools in the Atlantic and today, uh,

You did a really nice tour at the University of Chesapeake.

It's a nice school.

You know what?

It kind of reminds me a lot of Madison, actually.

I've heard a little bit.

I've never been to the campus proper by Ben through town.

And I've heard it's a great collegial field.

I mean, they're huge in sports, like Wisconsin is, football especially.

Their basketball team has gotten better.

The women's program, of course, under Pat Summit.

won how many national championships.

So yeah, and Tennessee is a chill place.

Not too hot, not too cold,

right?

You know, they are too.

They're a big, big, we, we just don't, we found this out while we were here.

You know, one of the cool things about going to all these campuses is you learn quite a bit about the different schools and whatever.

They're a huge baseball power.

Oh, that's right.

I've seen it.

One of the best, in fact, they have, they have two of the top four potential draft ticks and the major league baseball draft we learned.

Here and there's they're quite good at that.

So that's incredible.

Uh, of course, Wisconsin's been a while since, uh, we've had baseball here.

I think they have baseball.

No, it's, it's, it's touchy here.

It's touchy because they got rid of it partly because of title nine.

And so people would still like baseball here in, uh, in Madison.

Uh, uh, Trigme, let's talk a little political baseball.

Lots going on.

Uh, lots of things.

I like your take on here before the bottom of the hour.

I know you've been following a lot of the news here and we touched on this quite a bit yesterday on the show.

And this is this deportation of one of these individuals by Donald Trump sent to the prisons in El Salvador.

And this, a bar go Garcia is his name.

And here's a guy who the Trump administration, of course, the president of El Salvador was in the Oval Office yesterday.

Very disturbing.

We talked about it a lot yesterday, but I want to get to trivia is this new news being reported today by the New Republic and it turns out because one of Trump's and Marco Rubio's arguments here is a Pam Bondi is that This guy was part of MS-13 and Yet in court they have not proven or shown anything to the judge to to uphold that and now the New Republic are reporting today

that the arrested officer in the original arrest of this guy who made the assertion he was part of MS-13, it turns out this guy was relieved of duty himself because he was paying for sex to a prostitute and ended up talking about police cases to this woman.

Not exactly a credible witness as it turns out.

And I think it just goes again that as this case goes forward,

To me and I want your take on this is someone who's actually fought autocrats for those that don't know tricky is this is real banned from Russia by Putin himself because of his work against autocracies in Eastern Europe This seems to be the Trump administration and Donald Trump himself denying the truth here and not providing the courts with evidence and we are in a constitutional crisis in my opinion and damn near close to

calling it on democracy because if we don't uphold the law, if we don't have an executive branch who respects the courts, then do we really have a constitutional republic

treaty?

Well, it's a serious deal.

And you know, here's the thing, the guy was in the United States legally.

He's entitled to due process.

Okay?

Like the president of the United States, and this is why this matters for all of us,

doesn't just get to decide, or the Justice Department, or law enforcement, who they're going to deport and send to a prison, particularly when you have people who have the legal rights.

We're either a nation of laws and process, which isn't always going to be pretty, and quite frankly, there are probably people.

who deserve, you know, you would say, well, they don't deserve, you know, they deserve what they get.

But the reality is we're either a nation of rules and laws or we're not.

And if they can do this to somebody who's here legally, it's a slippery slope, being able to just pick up anyone and deport them.

So, you know, and send them off to a blue box,

really.

So it's a huge deal.

We don't,

Again, if you're a Republican and you're listening to this show, if Barack Obama or Joe Biden did this, how would you be reacting?

If they had loaded up Sean Hannity or Jesse Waters.

I saw this

on social media.

What if Biden had taken the January 6th defendants and just put them on

a

plane to El Salvador?

Correct.

And if one of them particularly any of them, okay, they did it maybe with you as citizens.

All right They're saying well, he's not doing it with you as citizens yet, but I guarantee you some of those people who are green-charted holders or non-us citizens, right?

naturalized you as citizens That should not be happening.

Well, and Trump was

And then defying the court is just outrageous.

Right.

Trump was

caught on a

live... And that's what I would say.

Ask yourself this.

If you're an average citizen, should you have the... Well, what would happen if you defied a court order?

Right.

Why should the president and the executive branch be above the law?

Well, and we played the cut yesterday.

Trump was caught on a live, like talking to President Bukele of El Salvador, saying, quote unquote, home groans are next.

That he is...

Not ruling out, sending full-bird American citizens to El Salvador without due process.

And, you know, this farce of, well, we can't get him back.

Really?

I mean, Trump's paying Bukele $6 million.

He wrote the art of the deal for God's sake.

That's what he says.

I mean, you're sitting next to him and you say, Bukele, I'm not giving the $6 million unless we get this guy back.

He'd be back like that.

So you're right.

It goes to due process.

It goes to respect to the

law.

Yeah, exactly.

But

it really gets back to rule of law.

at the end of the day.

And it's just slippery slope.

And honestly, I mean, I've just been reading a series of books on Germany and sort of the whole period between the rise of the end of the, end of the Weirmar Republic and all the way through the end of World War II.

And it's just slippery slope.

It's just slippery slope.

Because right now it's people who are, who are

are here on green cards.

Next, it will be LBGT community.

After

that, it will be passers-by at the Lincoln Church who say things they don't like.

And eventually, it's a slippery slope.

We're a

minute a minute left here trick before we got to go to back to go to break We'll come back.

I want your opinion on a couple of things.

We come back one your your colleague at Lincoln Project Stewart Stevens also a former Republican I was talking to Rick Wilson on one of the Lincoln project project podcast this week and and making this point that look what Trump is doing here what his ICE administration is doing picking people up without due process It's essentially kidnapping and that is illegal in

Pretty much every state, as far as last time I checked, why aren't state attorney generals filing kidnapping charges against ICE and some of the Trump administration?

And also, Bill Maher takes dinner with Trump at the White House.

Let's trick me think about that.

And the Packers, are they going to draft a wide receiver?

All of that in seven minutes.

Don't go anywhere.

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Welcome back to the title ball show in the civic video right into work 21 now past the hour 12 new and the incomparable Dolly Parton Little Dolly from Trigby.

Are you are you gonna go to Dollywood while you're down in Tennessee?

Join us via phone Trigby Olsen senior

advisor Lincoln

project Are you going

You're not planning on stopping at Dollywood

I've heard it's great.

I never been there by her.

It's really cool

Yeah, we talked about it a little bit.

But to be honest, we're kind of running out of time.

We had to go to New Orleans.

I mean, this is just people fighting in the state.

We had to go to New Orleans for a family friend event over the weekend.

Birthday party.

And so then we just decided that we roadstrip back.

We wanted to go to Dolly World.

The problem would be college visits.

They they take a lot of time.

Well, this is the difference between trade unionized.

What?

I don't know how it was that you do or you do.

I only know you do you.

But you go to the residence halls now.

They do the laundry for

students.

Good Lord.

Really?

Really?

We didn't have

that.

Yeah.

No.

We didn't have that either and I tell you some of these things that they give for them is the reason why The right has so much success demagoguing universities.

Well, there you go.

I'll put a little breaking news here.

This is courtesy of channel 3000 CBS affiliate here in Madison headline number of your UW Madison International students alumni whose visas were terminated rises to 26

says more than two dozen UW Madison students and recent alumni have seen their visas terminated through the Student Exchange Visitor Information System as of this afternoon.

According to University spokesman, the terminations include 15 current students and 12 recent alumni who have held immigration documents through a period of employment authorization.

And it continues on from there.

So now the number stands at 26.

Trayvita, get back to what we were talking about before the break.

We're no longer talking about quote-unquote illegal or the better phrases undocumented people.

These are people who have done it quote-unquote the right way, have waited in line, who have gotten permission, who have been here and now because of whatever.

And we're not just talking speech anymore.

I've seen, you know, the various sources.

Now I've seen these documents that ICE is using to identify someone as a threat.

It includes, are you

Speaking of college kids.

Are you roommates with someone?

Who has a Chicago Bulls Jersey and a tattoo Bing Bing gone?

I'm not this is real.

This is real.

So

this is what we're talking about now Here's here's here's the thing You know what this is gonna is it's gonna again like the tariffs like doge

It's just going to have such a negative impact on the US economy.

It's going to cost people in places like Wisconsin Jobs.

Do you know who are foreign students who came here?

Sergey Brin, founder of Google.

Elon Musk was here on a student visa.

He actually overstayed his.

About, I think it's like 50% of the Silicon Valley entrepreneurs are people who came here on student visas.

They're kicking all these people out.

They're going to want to come here.

They're going to go to Europe.

They're going to go to China.

They're going to go to other places.

A quick

question

about our

friend in those places.

Friend, ongoing contributor Jeff Perry has a question on Facebook.

Jeff says, question, what is the next step that can be taken to hold Trump accountable to following court orders?

Does it have to be an act of Congress?

Are U.S.

Marshals able to act independently?

Is there any precedent to having a president refuse the honor of a Supreme Court ruling?

No, there's no precedent for that.

I think what's got to happen here is, I mean, Congress should be asserting itself.

It's not, okay?

And it's not because you have people like, you know,

I do the Brian Styles and the Scott Fitzgeralds.

I doubt that the Tom Tiffany's do but the but the those guys know this is wrong, right?

They need to be hearing they need and and quite frankly if they don't go on they need to be held accountable That's simple.

They have to be held accountable and quite frankly it takes the process.

Here's the here's the other question is if he isn't going to honor Supreme Court decisions when he appointed

You know, how many members of the Supreme Court do you appoint?

The next question is, is he gonna honor elections?

So Jeff, what we have to do is we have to be speaking out to defend the guardrails.

And second, we have to not be taking debate and we have to be talking about the real world consequences of these kinds of things in terms of economics.

That 10% of the jobs in Wisconsin are under threat from Donald Trump.

insanity around tariffs.

Right.

Ten percent.

And 70 percent of those people voted for Donald Trump who had those jobs.

Yeah, I get it.

And that's why we're here to talk about this and tell people the truth.

Trigme, we'll save those questions on

on the State Attorney General's being filing kidnapping charges and Bill Marshall next week, because I want to give you a minute here to talk about.

I've got your colleagues here from United Wisconsin, former Democratic Dane County Sheriff Dave Mahoney and former Republican State Senator Majority Leader Dale Schultz in the studio with me.

I know you've been involved in United Wisconsin.

You've got about a minute, my friend.

Talk to us a little bit about your thoughts on United Wisconsin.

I think, you know, I am really proud of Dale and Dave, and I would say I'm more adjacent than they are colleagues of mine, and I've been friendly to them.

I'm really proud of all these people coming together because as I've said on the show, and it's something Dave and Dale, you know, I'm sure you'll talk to them about, like they've taken.

In Wisconsin, there's certain things like higher education, like conservation, like rule of law.

These aren't red or blue things.

These are green and gold things.

And the fact that you've got Dave and Dale who come from very different places politically, very different parts of the state, standing up and saying, you know what, we've got to get back to that.

And oh, by the way, one way that we can

do that is

through fusion voting.

Like, I'm just proud of it.

I'm proud of it.

They are meeting in the grandest tradition of Wisconsin in the way that the Gaylord Nelson and the Tommy Constance and...

And Warren Knowles and people like that, the giants that made Wisconsin such an amazing place.

And you

understand that even more if you've had the opportunity to go and live in other places.

What has made Wisconsin special, they're standing up and saying, this is wrong, we're going to defend it.

And I'm just proud of them.

Appreciate it.

By the way, we're gonna have Tia Nelson on the show next Tuesday.

I would add Governor Nelson State Park for Earth Day.

So I'm looking forward to that.

That's gonna be a lot of fun.

Trammy Safe Travels.

You know, the other thing,

Todd,

I'm getting a lot of pressure.

We gotta get a

tour set up.

You're the one traveling across America.

My big trip is down to Stoughton for a bakery item.

All right, Trammy Safe Travels, come on back.

More after this on the Todd Hallball Show on the Civic Media Ready Network.

It's day you've got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything.

You've got to

be your own man, not a puppet on a string.

Welcome back to the title show of the Civic video ready to work.

Glad to have you along.

34 minutes past the hour of 1 o'clock, 12 o'clock on this Wednesday, hump day, April 16th, 2025.

Zombers have all thrown off with the new time changes.

By the way, for those that haven't heard.

Starting a week from today, a week from today will now be at two o'clock until four in the afternoon.

So we're still in this time slot through Earth Day.

And then on Wednesday, you can find us two until four across the Civic Media Ready Network.

Thank you very much, Trigby Olson for calling in on the road.

And you can find our next two guests on their new project called United Wisconsin.

And you can find out

all sorts of great information about fusion voting and what united wisconsin is at united wisconsin all spelled out the full word united wisconsin dot org united wisconsin dot org please to welcome in here to the studio is the world headquarters in downtown madison former democratic dame county sheriff dave mahoney and former republican state senate majority leader dale schultz are here as our guests in the studio gentlemen thanks for being here

Thanks for the invitation,

Todd.

As always, delighted to be here.

And a full disclosure, wherever he's on the show, Dale was one of my former bosses, but it's always great to have you guys here, two people that I've looked up to a lot.

Of course, myself, a former Republican, Dale still calls himself just out of a mule spite, a Republican, I think, because you tell people you just want to stick around because you don't want to give up the true Republicanism.

Is that right?

Well, that's true.

And I still consider myself a Republican.

I just don't vote a straight ticket.

Right.

That's fair enough.

And Sheriff Mahoney, you're a Democrat still, but you're someone who is independent minded.

I am.

I like to say I'm a common sense Democrat.

And, you know, having run for office four terms, longest serving sheriff in Dane County, I represented every citizen of this county without regard to their

Political affiliation, you know the big two Republican Democrat, but then also the independence the greens the Didn't have a party at all.

Yeah, I represented the needs of everybody and that's what's missing today

I've heard Dale say the same thing when he was state senator that once the election is over, I'm here to represent everyone.

Guys, it's a statewide show.

I'm sure there are some people that haven't heard of either one of you for those folks that might be listening or watching via StreamYard, YouTube and Twitter.

Sheriff Mahoney, start with you a little bit about where you grew up and just the 30,000 foot view of your career and how you got involved with the United Wisconsin.

Well, I grew up in Madison.

went to high school at Madison Memorial High School and grew up in a family that believed in giving back to the community that we enjoy a great life here in Wisconsin with green and gold, but that you have a responsibility to give back.

And I did some volunteer work with the Middleton Emergency Medical Service and through my affiliation there and with the chief of police in the city of Middleton.

I decided to go into law enforcement.

I served about nine months with the village of Cross Plains Police Department, and then I was recruited to join the sheriff's office, where I spent 41 years.

Wow.

And during that 41 years, the last 15 as the elected Dane County Sheriff.

And I took that role very seriously because, you know, although we have a reputation of being leaning

to the left in in Dane County.

We also have a strong independent and Republican representation within Dane County, and the issues are the same.

You know, Dale and I have far more in common than we have different differentiating us from a political perspective.

We might disagree on how we get there, but you know what?

We're willing to talk about it and.

Dale might bring me his direction and I might bring him a little bit my direction.

But at the end of the day, we're serving the people, which is what the responsibility is of our elected people, our elected citizens.

So I served the last 15 years of my career as Dane County Sheriff.

During that time I also served at the president as president of the National Sheriff's Association representing 3,080 sheriffs across the United States and this is an issue that I Know is as recently as this past February was top of good discussion among the national sheriffs and I'm staying involved in Issues of concern right now.

I'm working for a consulting firm out of Chicago that

deals in behavioral health, in jails and prisons, because it's a increasing number of people who are incarcerated with mental illness.

Senator Schultz, give us a quick overview of you.

You've been on the Schultz course, we appreciate you, but a little bit where you grew up, not actually too far from where Dave grew up and how you got involved.

I grew up on the south side of Madison.

I went to high school initially, right across the street at Madison Central, till it closed, went to Madison West.

graduated from the University of Wisconsin, Madison, and then promptly went off to start farming on the family farm in Saw County.

Didn't take me too long to figure out I was going to need a job to support my bad habit of farming.

And my wife and I eventually moved into Richland Center, where she completed 36 years in education, last 16 as superintendent of schools in our community.

and we have two daughters who went through the Richland Center School District and both doing very well and they're both graduates of the University of Wisconsin-Madison.

Still farm, still involved in some real estate activities and like the hunt and fish and like Dave I want to be involved in helping to solve problems and that's how I see this whole project.

With fusion voting it's it's a problem-solver.

I don't know If it's the same here in Madison, but in Richmond Center when I have coffee with the guys and gals downtown They all tell me that they're tired of watching the reality show which is our national government and they want some sort of a solution and I tell them well I've got a deal for you Fusion voting is what it's about

before going any further a quick shout out because I know her well not a long time your lovely wife Rachel

who now has started her own after after standing by you for all those years in the state assembly and Senate.

Now, she has been elected herself to the local city council

landslide Rachel.

She was unopposed in her first effort.

How about that?

She never on it.

Well, I guess maybe one of your assembly raises your own.

She

she got out of seat at the city council and I got the vacuum a little more often

about time.

about time

well said

absolutely uh guys let's go to the story uh for those that want to uh read the whole story it's really well done uh go to the wisconsin state journal and it's a story by michael schmidt in this weekend's i was a sunday state journal headline could this same candidate run under separate parties wisconsin group wants to try it i'm going to read this paragraph just to kind of set the table and then have you guys get into it says quote fusion voting allows the same candidate

to be nominated by more than one political party.

Voters would still vote only once in each race, but they can choose their preferred candidate without supporting a party they may disagree with.

In practice, that means some candidates would appear more than once on a ballot, for example, Jane Doe Republican could appear on the same ballot as Jane Doe Green Party.

all votes for an individual candidate, whether nominated by a major political party or a minor party, would then fuse together to create a final vote tally.

So that's the premise of this thing, guys.

Is that when you're out in the street, is that more or less how you're explaining it to people?

Exactly.

As I explained it, it's a means to address the hyper politicization.

of the two major parties.

We can't even have a civil conversation in our nation today.

And if we talk about Wisconsin, which are full of green and gold fans and folks that want to solve problems and believe in the same strong issues of democracy and strong schools and public safety and honoring

public servants It's important that we do that and right now the tempo and that the temperature is so high that we can't even have a civil conversation so fusion voting allows Not only the identification of the two major parties Republican and Democrat and to set their own agendas but allows a candidate who may be more moderate to

to appeal to the vast majority, the silent majority of our voters.

I know that, you know, I don't want to get too far down this road, Dale, because that's not what we're here for.

But you and the late great Senator Tim Cullen did a lot of work for years on our redistricting.

And finally now, thanks to Governor Evers and a fairer, I'll call it, Supreme Court, we now have redistricting legislatively

I've asked another former boss of mine, former Republican Congressman Scott Clug, who represented the second district, including Dane County of Madison, if he thought that he could get elected in the current maps as a Republican, he said, no, absolutely not.

Sheriff Mahoney, I'll ask you, could you have got, could you think you could get elected today as a Democrat in Dane

County?

Well, not with the margins that I enjoyed when I was running.

Dale, I know the maps changed now, but think about the Senate district that you represented, those lines, do you think that you with your positions voting against Act 10 could have got elected in that district today?

Well, I agree with Dave, I think not with the margins that I did before.

You got to remember, I was the guy who was used to getting 75% of the votes.

So you'd have to have a lot of fallout to lose, but without a doubt, it would be a lot closer.

And who knows

but but today's point and I think this is so important to our listeners of viewers What I think this idea of fusion voting does is give people who aren't either at the extreme left or right More of a chance to get elected and what I hear when we take the show on the road across Wisconsin Is that what if that's what voters want down?

Well, I go places to as like I said before people say I don't vote anymore just encourage the

But

I can't say it.

You can say it,

bastard.

I can't.

All right.

I'm trying to keep you in good stead with the FEC.

And, you know, people say, you know, look, my vote doesn't count anymore.

You know, I tried voting for third parties, but they never win.

So what's the point?

And I guess what I try to tell them is if you're tired of that extreme partisanship that Dave was talking about and you want to have some agency

in our elections, then fusion voting gives you that opportunity.

And we should also mention that the candidates have to accept votes to say they'll accept votes.

But why wouldn't they?

And in Wisconsin, where elections are so close, a few votes could make a difference.

And and if you won with the help of fused votes, I think it's pretty natural you're going to go back and talk to those people and more importantly, listen to them.

And it

re-empowers those in the middle, those who are moderate in their politics, to feel that their voice is being heard and that they're being represented.

at all levels.

And I thought this was

like, well, this has just been cooked up or whatever, but no, as it turns out in this article, the state journal says fusion voting was commonplace across the country.

In the 19th century, it was used as an avenue for anti-slavery parties to force the issue of abolition in the 1840s and 1850s.

Later populace, working man, suffragette and temperance parties used the tool to advance their policies and priorities.

So this isn't anything new.

It's just that we got away from

it.

We did as all across the country, but there are still

I believe at least three states that have fusion voting in the presidential election, Oregon, California, and Vermont.

And I believe that we have a constitutional right to exercise fusion voting here in Wisconsin.

Well, a couple of minutes here before the first break, we'll come back then and talk a little bit more.

But is there anything that needs to be said?

Do you think to like lay this out so people understand what it is before we go on to how do people get involved?

Well, I just want to make a historical note here that it is important and it's part of Wisconsin's history.

That little schoolhouse in Ripon, Wisconsin where the Republican Party was

born, uh, was the result of free soilers, Democrats, wigs and a bunch of other little parties coming together, uh, to have a meeting because they wanted to change their government.

And, uh, they all walked out Republicans and they nominated Abraham Lincoln, uh, for the presidency and were successful.

Just imagine how those people who had been shut out, uh, weren't able to, uh, get their voices heard felt when all of a sudden, uh,

they hit the jackpot by working together.

That's the key, working together and compromising with each other to achieve policy goals.

We're talking with the former state Senate Majority Leader Dale Shilson, former Dane County Sheriff Dave Mahoney here on the show talking about fusion voting.

You can find out more at unitedwisconsin.org.

Come on back.

We'll finish up the discussion and have a little fun as well.

It's the title of all show on the Civic Media Party Network.

You're listening to Civic Media.

Find the latest news, information, and archives of all your favorite shows on the Civic Media website, civicmedia.us.

having fun doing it.

Welcome back to the title of all show on the Civic Media already network.

It is nine before the hour of one o'clock and hour number two going to have a what's worse for you a rock edition.

The Who or Led Zeppelin will ask you that question and Tara Ariano is back always glad to have her talking about TV shows of 2025 the highs and the lows but right now it is all wonderful to have our two guests here in studio always appreciate that the world headquarters in downtown Madison former Democratic Dane County Sheriff Dave Mahoney and former Republican State Senate Majority Leader Dale Schultz talking about fusion voting they are the co-chairs of United Wisconsin

dot org or the organization is united wisconsin you can find out more about this project more about fusion voting and it's a great headline transcending the politics of division i love that

United Wisconsin spelled out unitedwisconsin.org.

Guys, lots of great conversation.

We really appreciate this.

Read a couple of these here off the air or on the air, brother, from WMDX here in Madison.

The history shows us fusion voting can be used.

for ill purposes to witness Milwaukee when they used it against socialist candidates.

Well, I would think that everything can be used for ill purpose if that's the case.

Peggy in Brooklyn, Wisconsin, listening on WMDX, says fusion voting.

Yes, yes, yes.

Steve up on Green Bay at WGBW.

I like the idea of fusion voting on paper, but what prevents a party that is

predicated on hateful and harmful policies from nominating a candidate?

Well, as I said earlier, the candidate has to accept the votes.

If they say, no, I don't wish to be allowed to nominate me, they have that right.

And, but I think in most cases, if they saw it as a positive addition, they would say, yeah, I want those votes.

And then they would be tangentially aligning themselves with this.

minor party to gather a majority of votes.

Steve in Milwaukee listening on WAUK says, how is this different fusion voting from ranked choice voting?

Well, I'll take it quickly that the super 30,000 foot level is with ranked choice voting, everybody kind of runs under, I don't want to call it one ballot, but it's just an open voting.

And then depending upon whether it's a primary or a general, you take the top two or four or whatever it is,

of all the votes cast and then they move on.

Whereas in fusion voting, you still only have the same number of elections, but a candidate can be listed on the same ballot under multiple parties, as we said before.

And I think what's appealing about fusion voting to me, to both your points, Dave and Dale, is in today's hyperpartisan atmosphere, you might have someone that says,

Well, you know, I'm a Democrat and I could just never bring myself to vote for somebody on the Republican ticket.

But you know, Schultz, I mean, you know, he voted against Walker on Act 10.

And if he wasn't running as Republican, I might vote for him again.

So theoretically, you could run on a different ticket and both votes for Republican and.

the third party or the fusion party would count.

Same thing for Mahoney.

Geez, I'm a lifelong Republican.

I can't vote for a Democrat.

But if you ran under this as sheriff, I might vote for him.

So it makes candidates who are more in the middle and centrist, I have a better chance to win.

Do I have that right, guys?

You know, if I look back at my races, you know, I was averaging 68% to 78% in every one of my elections.

that percentages don't exist in just the Democratic Party in Dane County.

It was because I was seen as credible and in tune with the concerns of people representing themselves as independent or Republican.

The issues that I dealt with have no political significance.

When

you call 911, we don't ask you what party you're born.

And it was the same when my predecessor, who was a Republican.

You know, there's far more that Dale and I, and quite honestly, the representatives who are sitting in the Capitol today, having common.

What's differing right now is the hyper politics preventing us from sitting down and addressing the core needs of the citizens who put us in office.

Dale, a couple of minutes left.

You're about two and a half minutes left.

You guys will be traveling on the road.

Talk about that a little bit, how people can get involved.

Well, we are.

As you mentioned, Tim Collin and I teamed up on gerrymandering and had a great time meeting fellow Wisconsinites from one corner of the state to the other through the auspices, a lot of good government groups.

I think Dave and I would enjoy getting out and having a chance to pitch this idea in a lot of different places.

And to turn people on to this is a solution because you know what?

Government shouldn't.

just be a reality show that appeals to the worst in people.

It shouldn't be the Jerry Springer show.

It ought to be befitting of the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence, which undergird our political democracy.

And I think that's important to the vast majority of citizens in this state.

Dave, what I'm not asked you yet that people need to know.

Well, I think you've asked the important questions and I just want to follow up on Dale, you know,

I agree, hitting the road and talking about these issues that I really think hit home to hometown Wisconsin and getting away from the red and the blue and talking about green and gold, because that's really what defines us as Wisconsin.

And

what is what great segue because if you go to unitedwisconsin.org, what are the colors?

Greeting gold.

How about that?

It's funny how that works.

United Wisconsin spelled out unitedwisconsin.org.

And that's how to get a hold of us.

That's the best way to get a hold of you guys and people to get involved because I guess about a minute left here.

Is it going to take some sort of legal action to get this done you think in Wisconsin or is it still too early to predict?

I think it's a little early, but I think we're thinking about that and preparing accordingly.

All right.

Very good.

Some more to come.

You

know, we're involved because we want to make this happen.

And we want to return Wisconsin to the greatness that it has always been.

Well, I remember when you were Sheriff Mahoney as a former Republican at the time.

And internally, people would say, we ain't running anybody against Mahoney because he's going to kick our butt.

And because you were representing everybody.

And Dale, you know how I feel about you as the same way and the reason you racked up all those numbers.

So two great guys, different political parties, fighting for Wisconsin.

Dave Mahoney, Dale Schultz, we appreciate you.

Back after this on Civic Media.

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