Jim Santelle on Voting Rights and Gerrymandering (Hour 1)

From Washington to Hollywood and right back to Wisconsin.

It's Night Light with Pete Schwabba and Greg Bach.

Connecting the dots on the stories shaping our world with smart takes, sharp humor and plenty of personality.

You know, I really expected more professional behavior from you.

It's news and culture without the noise.

Yeah, come on!

Here's Pete Schwabba and Greg Bach.

Dude!

Welcome to nightlight ladies and gentlemen happy post-long weekend weekend We are starting our Monday as a Tuesday and it is great It's much fun is the long weekend was this is pretty cool too because it's a short week So happy Tuesday everybody wherever you're joining us from around the state of Wisconsin or parts beyond it is great to have you here at nightlight with Pete Schwabba and Greg Bach We are coming to you live on the Civic Media Network on this

Tuesday, where we have so much to talk about, Greg, I can't even believe it.

Greg Bach, ladies and gentlemen.

Hi, everybody.

It's me, Greg Bach, coming to you from Radio Park in Racine.

I was half expecting you

not to be here tonight, Greg, because

you're starting the gig.

How do you

half expect something?

So well, on Friday, you said, so long, suckers.

I'm off to the big time.

But apparently that didn't happen.

That rarely happened.

That never happens, actually.

Well, how did the gig go?

It only happens when you have like, you know, three million followers on social media, put up videos all this time, go do shows all the time.

And I don't do any of those things.

So yeah, no, I'm here.

Hello.

It was a good show.

It was good weekend.

It was fun.

It was, you know, it was, uh, Chastity Washington is the absolute best.

She's

the

funniest comedians.

She's the funniest comedian in Milwaukee.

She's one of the funniest in the Midwest.

And, uh, this is just a note for Chicago.

She doesn't belong to you.

You guys always claim you're like Chicago zone.

No, she's from Milwaukee.

She's from Wisconsin.

She's ours.

Just knock it off.

But, um, it was a really fun time.

It was my first time actually being at the tap, the laughing tap since they reopened the doors.

And

so that was very interesting.

But, uh, yeah, I, uh, on Friday, we got done with the show.

And before like, even like the, everything was shut down.

I was out the door in my car.

I was driving up to Milwaukee and I got there at 7 34.

And I walked in and it was everyone was like, Hello, you know, I told him I was going to be there very much at show time.

And it was just.

You know, I don't know if you've ever done this, Pete, where you get to a show and you're out of sorts and you're like, I gotta say, I gotta do jokes now.

And you realize that, oh, I gotta like remember my jokes.

And then there was a couple that I kind of slipped up on, but it was fun.

We had a good time.

And, you know, it was great seeing a bunch of wonderful comedians and just great to do a show.

I mean, it was really, really good time.

I enjoyed it a lot.

It seems like you're kind of a radio big shot.

You could walk in and go, I'm a few minutes late, but I've got another gig.

Yeah.

Do you know, uh, do you know who I am?

I don't know who's anybody nowadays.

We don't know.

We don't know.

We

don't know.

And you used to be a big shot with that particular club.

So I would think they would, I'm sure they were cool about it.

Oh yeah.

I mean, they were a little surprised that I was, I think they were expecting me to get there between seven 20 and seven 30.

But when I show up at like seven 34, they're like, okay, you're here.

Let's go.

And then like, can we get, can you, we want to start in two minutes.

I'm like,

Perfect.

Let's do it.

Let's just

do

this right now.

So it was a fun time.

And I suggest people go out and check out shows there laughing tap.com for more information.

And when there are more comedy shows, I know I'm doing a couple of shows next month, which is interesting.

It's like I'm doing stand up.

It's like I'm doing stand up again, Pete.

Dude, I went through a phase where I kind of, you know, I did it so long ago for a living.

It was fun.

I toured all over and it was great.

But then I didn't want to watch it for a long time.

I've kind

of

gotten a revert like some of the

So the comedians that pop up on reels like on Instagram are

really

funny.

And I really like watching stand-up comedy again.

So I might just surprise him being in the audience one night.

So glad it went well.

Oh, baby.

How was your

weekend?

It was nice.

I had, you know, we just kind of hung around.

It was really fun.

We

watched a movie called Jack Ryan Ghost Wars with Jim Kovinsky, Krasinski, John Krasinski

from the

office.

I got my Krasinski's mixed up.

And then

Jim Caviesel,

the guy who played you.

It's not the guy from Red Moon or whatever that was, thin red line.

No, but it was fun.

The movie was not great.

These

movies are kind of going downhill.

It was, one of those movies was like wall to wall music.

It's like,

please stop, let this

thing breathe.

I know you're trying to make it more exciting, but if it's not there, it's not there.

Just take a break.

Plus, when you're dealing with stories, I have to do with spies and espionage.

There are moments when silence is important.

OK, right.

Yeah, absolutely.

Very interesting to me.

Yeah,

but we did the usual cookout.

We launched our summer barbecue.

We did the brats and the burgers.

I had like three brats.

Now I don't need to see a brat again for another year.

But it was fun.

And we played this neighborhood golf game we play called soccer golf with soccer balls.

We had a couple of tournaments.

And here's what I've learned about where I live.

I live in a small Chautauqua, old Chautauqua community.

It's like

50

houses on the outskirts of Christmas City, if you will.

And when you walk, there are, you know, there's a fair share of old people, but we walk laps very leisurely around this thing in our neighborhood and people go, whoa, you are really going to town.

Like I'm an athlete or something.

Like this is a leisurely stroll.

Yeah, but Pete, you're a young in there.

I mean, you are a guy who's like, oh my gosh, you got your original knees.

My goodness.

What a break.

What a break.

What's

that whipper snapper think he's

doing?

What's he

trying to prove?

Slow down.

You're going four miles an hour, boy.

Come on.

I know.

And it's hard to, to get exercise anyway, because you see people, especially when the weather gets nice.

You stop at every other house and it's like a five, 10 minute conversation, but it was really nice.

Nice weekend.

But also good to be back in here.

Dom, what are you looking at?

How was your weekend, buddy?

It was really good.

And the reason why it was so good was I also watched the movie in theaters, The Obsession.

The Obsession was such a good movie.

It was great.

I'm

envious.

That is supposed to be outstanding.

I cannot wait to see that

movie.

It was the best horror movie I've ever watched in theaters, ever, to date.

So good.

So good.

Cool.

That

was serious.

Greg doesn't like to hear that.

I mean, I'm not going to say I'm a scaredy cat.

He's already scaredy.

I'm a scaredy cat.

No, thank you.

No, thank

you.

Oh, that's awesome.

And did

you go down to Chicago for your long weekend where Chastity Washington is not a resident,

by the way?

I did.

Yes, I did.

Just just saw the family for a couple of days, but then I had to go back.

like the morning of Sunday.

So I didn't even really go on Memorial Day.

But yeah, it was a nice show weekend and saw some family.

It was really nice weekend.

Fantastic.

We have a great show tonight, guys.

Our pal Jim Santel will be here.

He

is a

former prosecutor.

He was a former U.S.

attorney for the Eastern District of Wisconsin.

and he hosts Amicus Law Review.

Am I getting there right, Greg?

I'm

going.

Amicus

Law Review every Saturday from 9 a.m.

to 11 a.m.

here on Civic Media.

Civic Media.

And Jim is knowledgeable and he is a good guy and I cannot wait to talk to him at 535.

We've got a few questions for Jim as we do and you've known Jim longer than I have, Greg.

I would say you guys are pals, even.

We're pals.

We're buddies.

We've hung out.

We've hung out socially, which is very fun because someday I'll tell you the story of Jim Santel and pretzel bites is one of the most heartwarming beautiful stories of a man who is so accomplished discovering a snack

for the first time.

And, uh, yeah.

So no, it's great.

Jim is great.

Cause he, you know, it's, he can talk about the law.

He can talk about art.

He can talk about drama.

He is just a good human being.

And I'm always very happy to have him around to break down these huge stories coming out of the world of law.

And there's always stories coming out of the world of law, whether we're talking about just basic decisions from judges to all the way to the Supreme court.

He's here for us and we appreciate it.

And don't you love like what you told me before the show, Jim does a lot of pro bono work, mostly pro bono work.

That says a lot about someone's character, I think, cause he could still be cashing in and charging people, whatever.

But I think that's amazing.

I've got a lot of lawyers in my family that have done that kind of thing.

And I,

I'm

in awe of people like that.

It's just, it's a great trait and Jim has

it.

Yeah, absolutely.

He's just a good human being period.

That's all there is to it.

No getting around that point.

Yeah, I don't like him personally, but I do agree with you.

He's a good person.

We also have, ladies and gentlemen, coming up in hour number two, actor based in Door County.

You don't hear that a lot.

Door County based

actor Kurt Krause will be here.

He is working on a movie, getting a movie going.

He's in a play coming up.

It sounds like a hilarious play.

So we'll talk to Kurt about all things that he's got going on.

He's been on the show several times before.

And gentlemen,

I am very excited to announce this week's, it's my choice this

week

for the Nightlight Movie Club, which takes place every Thursday night here at Nightlight in the second hour at 6.20.

We break a movie down, we talk about it, we celebrate it.

This week's movie, compliments of Pete Schwabba.

Oh god, we got a timpani guys.

The Outsiders.

Boom.

How is that?

Wow.

Matt Damon, C.

Thomas Howell.

Not Matt

Damon.

I'm sorry, Matt Dillon.

Matt Damon would have

to be in utero

You're correct Matt Dylan Rob Thomas.

No, no, no Rob Lowe Pat Swayze is in this movie great

actor

Patty Swayze Patty Swayze.

We've got Tom Cruise in

a

lesser role, but great Emilio Estevez Ralph Machio Diane Lane who steals the scenes she's in is great too

This week's movie of our Nightlight Movie Club is The Outsiders, that classic.

Everybody, we were talking about this before the show, had to read it in eighth grade, and then the teacher would oftentimes show the movie, so you've probably already seen it, folks, and if you haven't, check it out, or give it a rewatch, which is what I'll be doing before Thursday night, and join us for an hour, number two, where we break down The Outsiders and discuss it at Nightlight Movie Club.

That'll be fun.

Absolutely.

It's gonna be a really, really good time.

Yeah.

All

right.

I think without further ado on this Tuesday evening, we

should

get to the question of the night.

Let's talk about the question.

Okay, question.

Question.

Question.

Pregunta.

Question.

Question.

Okay, I have a question.

Questions.

This question.

Domanda.

Question.

Question.

All right.

Memorial Day weekend is in the rear view, folks.

Summer is here.

And our question of the night is, what is the best vacation spot in Wisconsin?

We are vacation central here in America, or at least in the Midwest.

Everybody comes to Wisconsin with good reason.

We have a beautiful state.

It's amazing in the summer.

What is your best vacation spot in Wisconsin?

If it's winter, if it's your favorite winter spot, that's okay too, but let us know.

855-752-4842-8557.

You could also Texas on the Civic Media app.

Very easy to use.

You probably already have it.

If not, download it because you're gonna need it because we have a great contest coming up again.

One of our text-to-win contests is right around the corner.

So get the Civic Media app, or you can send us a message over the stream if you're watching on YouTube, Facebook, and or Twitter, X, whatever the heck it's called.

Why do they call it?

It's called X. Send me an X, will ya?

X me, Greg.

No, no, I will not do any of those things.

I won't do that.

Tweeting worked.

Send

me a tweet.

Tweeting was great.

Now they're like, oh, it's a post.

I'm like, that doesn't sound funny anymore.

And it's still Twitter to me.

I mean to and tweeting apparently it's just not manly enough.

So they had X

So

I'm excellent.

I'm gonna just X a lot today.

I'll be

xing most of the day

Today's legs day next day be part

of the show folks to let us know what your favorite or best vacation spot is in Wisconsin We will share ours in the second hour as well as I mentioned Jim Santel coming up after the news at 535 Greg I'm just gonna give you a minute here to go crazy for your Brewers, bud We had Mike Clemens wanted to come on and talk about this heroic historic day.

What happened out there?

I mean, well, we had, we had a decent showing against the Dodgers.

We beat, you know, to me, we beat one, we did one game.

We got one game.

That was good.

And then they kicked the stuffing out of us the next game.

And then the second, the third game was, man, the viewers are still sitting right there on top.

Number one, two and a half games ahead of St.

Louis, who we're playing right now, or not right now, but this evening, but.

the brewers, I mean, from what they're just setting records and busting down walls and doing it big style.

That's, it's, it's also very weird as a brewers fan.

I'm sure you can identify with this as a Cubs fan and Dom as a White Sox fan when your team is doing really well.

You're like, Oh man, they're doing great.

When does it all fall apart?

Yeah.

And it's early, but yeah, I mean, if they're capable of doing it now, and what did Mizorowski do?

What was his big?

Oh, he, he said, I see that's, that's why we need.

That's why we need a good old fashioned.

Tons of strikeouts.

Tons of strikes.

Yeah.

There we go.

Here.

It sets record for 100 mile per hour plus pitches.

There we go.

For the most in a single game, 57 pitches of at least 100 miles per hour during the five to one victory against the Cardinals last night.

We are coming right back to tell you what's going on in the world, folks.

We might even ask you to sign an NDA.

So

don't go

anywhere.

You don't

want to miss that.

It's Nightlight with Pete

and

Greg on the Civic Media Network.

Welcome

back.

This is Nightlight with Pete Schwabba and Greg Bach.

I am coming to you live from northeast Wisconsin where it is about to storm, guys.

You might hear some thunder.

coming to you live from Marinette, Wisconsin, just down the coast coming to you live is Greg Bach from Radio Park in Racine.

And the kid, Dom Lee, is holding down the fort in Madison at Civic Media headquarters.

We are, for those of you listening on the stream, the Yatterhey Triangle, and we are arranged as such on the stream if you're watching the show on YouTube, Facebook, or the app, or Civic Media.

We're not on NBC, are we right now?

An NBC?

No, unless the contract was very different when I saw it.

No, we are not an

NBC.

We could do like a Colbert public access show.

Oh yeah, only in Monroe.

That was really cool.

Jack White, that

would be pretty cool.

Our question

tonight is what is your favorite Wisconsin vacation spot or which spot do you think is the best?

We are the state of summer.

It's amazing to be in Wisconsin in the summer, so let us know what your favorite spot is to vacation in and Be part of the show will read your text most likely in hour two Greg we've got some things happening in the world and it

seems

like every time I turn around There is a certain president that is insulating himself from prosecution bad words, whatever it is

Oh, yeah.

I mean, whether, whether or not like, you know, he, he going to walk out of the office with a blanket, a pardon for he and his family and anybody who came into the White House during his time in office.

To now what we're seeing here, according to Yahoo News, they're reporting, this is from the Washington Post, actually, Trump administration proposed NDA for all federal workers because they believe that there are leaks coming out of the federal government that are leading to stories in the paper.

And so they want to, they are entertaining the idea of making them, making all federal employees sign NDAs, which to me just says,

You're just doing stuff wrong.

You don't want anyone to talk about.

And this story does a really good job of breaking down the fact that these NDAs would really stand in the way of First Amendment rights.

They would stand in the way of whistleblowing.

They would stand in the way from anybody actually, you know, reporting any wrongdoing, which

That's not how it's supposed to work the government There's something going on

It was hard enough signing an NDA to do this show with you guys, but I've

honored

itself and I have not ratted Nobody's you know you guys your secrets are safe with me, but I think yeah It's kind of like don't investigate me the IRS can't come after me and now you can't talk

So, what is the purpose so much for open government?

And I'm not saying everybody, you know, if there are state secrets or there's an attack, whatever.

Okay, but we've always operated, we've always figured that out before.

Are these really necessary?

Well, no, I mean, I personally believe like if you work if you work for the government in a very sensitive section, whether you're talking about the Pentagon, you're talking about the White House.

Yes, there are certain things that you cannot talk about for fear of being arrested for treason or for, you know, that that's understandable.

But like in this article, they use the example of, you know, they were unauthorized disclosures regarding the what are these the kidnapping of former president of Venezuela, Nicholas Maduro, and that these stories made their way into the New York Times.

But the executive editor himself said, we didn't have that information.

We didn't delay the story.

We didn't do anything.

Don't use us as an example to push your NDA narrative because all you're trying to do is keep people from telling on you because you continue to be the most corrupt presidency in the history of America.

Yeah, they just want to do whatever they want

and they don't want any

repercussions.

I mean, it's not

like they listen to the

courts anyways when something happens.

That was a weird thing too.

They said agencies can decide whether to adopt the NDA according to the draft.

So it's what optional?

I don't it's like such a mixed message.

It's like the

Iran war.

I can't figure out what's going on from

a day-to-day basis, you know, my goodness gracious.

Yeah.

Yeah,

exactly.

So

here's a story that I love this.

And

again,

it's it's like Pope Leo kind of being a thorn in the in well, not the president necessarily because Trump hasn't come out and

But in billionaire sides, I'll say, because in Politico, Pope Leo said that artificial intelligence could exacerbate inequality deep in social fragmentation and weaken moral responsibility unless it is constrained.

He's not alone there.

I do like that he's speaking out on this because although, as Trump mentioned, he's weak on crime, whatever that

meant a couple of weeks ago.

He's being strong on AI.

And listen.

We were joking around the other day in our house with the kids My son was asking crazy questions to AI and this girl's voice and AI was coming It was really creepy and he was saying weird things and she was going okay.

Yes He hears what I think is you it is so creepy and I thought AI was gonna kill us all that night Like that's how creepy it already is so there have to be regulations not

just cuz

I'm freaked out but in general I mean we don't want a terminator situation here.

I bring everything back to movies

Um, but I know former president Barack Obama is working on figuring out regulations for AI too, because he sees the importance in it.

I don't feel like billionaires should have free reign with this and do whatever they want because frankly, we're in a lot of trouble.

I think if that's the case.

I just think it makes sense that in the day and age of this kind of technological advances and I'm not against a I, you know, I'm not like saying, yeah, it's the worst thing here.

I'm just saying that it just makes sense.

That's something that's very powerful.

That's you being used in this story makes very clear.

It's being used in all facets of life, whether we're talking about entertainment, we're talking about government or military.

There need to be some safeguards.

There need to be some guardrails, but this administration and this current version of America, not a really big fan of guardrails, at least the people in power, they think guardrails are, you know, like anti America.

America and freedom and makes us weaker and less men, but whatever.

But yeah, I mean, again, for me, it's a, it's a, it's a weird situation because, you know, there's a lot of, there's a lot of conversations we could have about the Catholic church.

And I know that they're worth having, not at this moment, because we have a show to do, but I do like to see this Pope and the Pope and his predecessor Pope Francis really taking up these topics and really speaking out, even though, you know, Pope Leo is soft on crime, so soft on crime.

I don't know what he you know he hasn't done one thing about gang violence

So yeah, it's interesting, but he sent out a letter.

I like he's a voice and he's an influence.

So I say go for it.

We do need this.

We need some regulations before it's too late because frankly politicians, if things go too far, you can't reel it back.

And

that's what

I think Pope Leo was saying.

So all right, we are going to break for the news, ladies and gentlemen, our question of the night.

What is the best vacation spot in Wisconsin?

Summer is here.

Let's celebrate it and let's celebrate our state with this fun question.

Be part of the show when we come back.

Uh, Jim Santel is here, folks.

You've heard him here on Civic Media.

Amicus, a law review.

That's Jim, and he's here next.

It's Pete and Greg, and

Nightlight.

Welcome back to Nightlight with Pete Schwabba and Greg Bach.

Here on the Civic Media Network, I always love some wings bringing us on in.

If you want to be part of the conversation, 855-752-484-2855-755.

Civic, leave a comment on that live stream.

We're currently streaming on Facebook, YouTube and the platform.

We still call Twitter.

The question of the night is summer is here.

So what is the best vacation spot in Wisconsin?

Let us know here on the text line.

Give us a call.

the live stream or via the Civic Media app.

It's very easy to download.

You can call, you can text, you can listen live.

It's a great way to stay in touch at all points.

Do not forget, in the second hour, we'll be talking to Kurt Krauss, who is a Dork County native film producer, actor, talking about all the things he's into right now, including a movie he's making, as well as a play.

But that's coming up in the second hour.

But right now, let us welcome to the stage

Our first guest of the evening, he is the host of Amicus Law Review, which is on every Saturday from 9 a.m.

to 11 a.m.

here on the Civic Media Network.

He's also a former U.S.

attorney.

He is Jim Santel, and we are so excited to have him on the show this evening.

Good afternoon slash evening.

Jim, how are you today?

Equally excited to be with you gentlemen.

And once again, lots and lots of things to talk about, including some surprises out there, right?

Rule of law stuff and legislative action.

But delighted to be with you.

Isn't it

weird when the rule of law seems to work with the way it's supposed

to?

Yes.

Let's kick things off, though, with a decision coming from the Supreme Court regarding the death penalty.

Absolutely.

So this is a fellow named Joseph Clifton Smith.

He's an Alabama man.

He was sentenced to execution to death by Alabama after murdering a man, heinous, heinous event, horrific, horrific event that prompts all this.

He is sentenced to the death penalty.

And as your listeners certainly know, Supreme Court said a long, long time ago that under the Eighth Amendment, which prohibits cruel and unusual punishment, it is not, it is not necessary.

necessarily a violation of the Constitution to impose a death penalty.

Some states say yes, some states say no.

Alabama is one of those that's gone ahead and say yes.

We're going to make that available, if you will, to judges and to juries.

But you have to do it according to rules, as the Supreme Court said.

Another case called Atkins v. Virginia says you can't administer the death penalty if, in fact, the person, the defendant, the convict, does not have the mental capacity,

ability to appreciate what's going on, to basically understand the events and circumstances surrounding this, probably the nature of his or her conduct, and also the the penalty and the nature of that.

And so the question's always been okay, under what circumstances can you execute someone of limited intellectual capabilities?

In this particular case, once again, you Mr. Smith.

Falls kind of in that category.

Alabama says you've got an IQ of 70 or more.

You are intellectually capable of understanding this.

If you're somewhere around that or less than that, you are not.

Here, Mr. Smith scores 72 to 78 over a period of years.

And the question is, with a margin of error, is that in the category where the Supreme Court would say, yes, indeed, he suffers from sufficient intellectual incapacities such that

the death penalty on him would be unconstitutional.

And lower courts, the Alabama court has said, nope, we're going to go ahead.

He's just above our line, which is 70.

A lower federal court came in and said, no, given the lack of clarity on this, that you're in this ballpark once again, and some other testing that also indicated that he does not have the intellectual capacity to appreciate what's going on.

Lower federal court says, no, we're suspending this.

Alabama takes it up to the Supreme Court.

Supreme Court says we can't decide and they do something.

Here's your Latin.

Here is your lost stuff for the day.

They basically say that the review.

action was improvidently granted, which means we made a mistake.

We looked at the file here and there's not sufficient detail in it.

We don't have enough details and facts to render a decision and to give clear direction, not just to Alabama, but to other states on this intellectual capacity issue.

And for that reason, we're not deciding.

We're dismissing the case here, goes back down to the lower courts, presumably for some resentencing.

And in the meantime, there is plainly Mr. Smith.

gets a reprieve just because, again, the lower federal court said no death penalty imposed here.

But again, it underscores not only the process before our Supreme Court, but also that death penalty issues continue to loom large before the highest court.

And Eighth Amendment is still an active part of what we think about in

America.

That's a lot.

Every time I thought I got to follow up with Jim about this, you answered it.

So thank you for that.

And very well done.

Jim, it just came out today that I'm going to jump out here for a second from the death penalty and just Trump has proposed NDAs for all federal workers.

Is this legal?

Constitutional American it actually seems like it's so controversial like Greg and I were talking before it might actually encourage whistleblowing because you're clamping down so hard.

What what do you make of this?

Who knows what the unintended consequence may be?

Again, I think about two categories.

I was in both of them.

As a civil servant, again, I do not give up my First Amendment rights to speak out, to whistleblow.

And if someone had come to me during the 30 years that I was assistant U.S.

attorney, some other spots, and said here, as a condition of your civil service employment, not connected to politics, not connected to things that you may or may not say, I would refuse to sign that.

And I think the courts would support me on that.

That's civil servants.

political appointees.

I was a U.S.

attorney.

Marshals are that, plainly many others in the federal government.

There, in fact, as a presidential appointee, President wants to pick up the phone and fire me based upon something that I have said.

That is his or one day her prerogative.

But we're talking really about all those civil servants out there.

And so to answer your question, Pete, I would certainly anticipate that a federal judge looking at this saying, no, no, that is not a proper condition for a civil

They do retain First Amendment rights.

They do retain whistleblower rights.

They're federal statutes that give them that authority, even that obligation to come forward.

If in fact they see fraud and waste and abuse, it happens all the time.

It is not consistent with our understanding of how government works.

And again, I would look forward to someone challenging this if he's serious about going ahead with this.

If someone doesn't get to him and say, Mr. President, another bad, bad idea.

But if he does go ahead with it, anticipate this being in the courts for at least some period of time before a judge says, no, I'm enjoying, I'm stopping that too.

And I just wanted to make a point really quick, too, is I don't know how you would enforce an NDA on 2.7 million federal employees, which is where we're at right now.

We probably had more pre-Doge, but I just think it just seems like an absolutely

ridiculous thing to say, well, we'll have them all signed NDAs.

Well, okay, we'll see you in court.

See you in court.

Exactly.

And the real, the point of, of, again, your good observation, Greg, is just this.

It's impractical to do that.

I think a lot of people would once again resign.

You've got supervisors who would not do this.

But more than anything else, it's to do what?

It's to send the message.

This is not a practical thing.

It's just to send the message that if you are in a federal employee, I'm watching you.

I'm looking at you.

And I may, at some point, attempt to go after you for the things you say.

It's that deterrence, which the presidency should not at all be about.

It should be about, again, transparency and telling members

federal workforce that I expect you, I expect you to come forward when in fact there are problems in our administration, fraud, waste, abuse, all those kinds of things have got to be a part of the job.

To report on it, that is.

Absolutely.

If you are just joining us right now, we are talking to former U. S attorney and current host of amicus a law review Jim Santel.

He is our guest this evening.

We're talking about all the biggest stories coming out of the world of law and we have a couple of minutes left in this segment, but let's get to what you listed as two big victories coming out of the courts victories for Democrats.

That is, do you want to talk more about that?

Absolutely.

So this is in the wake of that Calais case that sent all of us a flutter around the country, especially a whole swath of states in the South now redistricting after San Milito and a majority of the Supreme Court said, you don't have to be concerned about about anything, basically, as long as you do it for political purposes.

If you have a consequential impact upon race, we don't care anymore.

So it sets off all of these things in Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi, South Carolina, Alabama, Virginia, obviously the Democrats also there, but too big.

things happen today.

One is, as Alabama and the governor there, Kay Ivy, begins to put together a plan to get rid of the singular majority, black and majority Democratic district.

Lo and behold, federal judges come in, three of them, and they rejected this new voting plan.

And they say, we cannot see our way clear to requiring Alabamians to cast their votes in the 2026 elections under a district plan tainted by intentional

race-based discrimination.

And so again, certainly it's going to be appealed to the appeals court, but a big news coming out of the federal court in Alabama saying, nope, you can't go ahead with what the legislature, but the governor wanted to do there.

That is huge.

That is certainly a setback for what everybody thought would be just the natural rolling forward here.

And South Carolina, you got a legislative problem there, South Carolina.

also wants to get rid of the singular majority black district there and there you've got the legislature that comes forward and says we don't have enough time and failing to pass a motion here's the nitty-gritty of it to stop debate and signals that the early voting that's already underway there was no longer enough to provide support for the Republicans and therefore punting votes down the road after the June 9th primary once again there

South Carolina this plan for a new midterm map not only suspended for a while but certainly defying the president in terms of what he wants.

So a judicial decision, a legislative decision, two different states as we were talking just before we began today.

We all predict that we're going to be going down this road and having all this wild redistricting.

And lo and behold, things happen, right?

The world turns on its axis.

And what you anticipated here, once again, from some judges and from some legislators, defying the president in South Carolina and saying, we can't go ahead.

We are simply out of time.

And he will not be happy about that.

Or of course, about Alabama.

We'll see what happens next in other states as well.

Roll tide.

That's what I say.

That's impressive.

Jim, how many states have been pushed back in three states now so far?

How many states do you know, or maybe you don't, would it take to push back where this won't affect midterms,

if that

makes any sense?

Right.

Just to know the calculation, I do not keep a running tab on this although I think people do.

You've got to factor in not only what happened in Virginia, which is those four democratic seats were overturned by the Virginia Supreme Court there.

So that's in the opposite direction.

Then you've got these attempts.

Again, Tennessee has already put in place its new map.

You've got Texas, you've got Louisiana, these things going on in South Carolina and Alabama today.

At the other stream, there's California, right?

This is Governor Newsom creating new districts there.

And I think, frankly, to answer your very good question, we'll see what tomorrow brings, because I think the calculus is changing every day.

You can't wait until November, but it is five months away.

You got to do this pretty quickly.

And if you haven't done it already, you are pretty much running out of time, as South Carolina did.

You can't change the rules.

You can't change the lines, frankly, much beyond maybe, maybe the 4th of July.

got to know where they're living, where they're going to be running, and if you wait much beyond that, then you get in trouble with what's so-called the Purcell principle that says you can't change the rules of voting so close to an election that people won't know what's going on.

And so this is going to change every day, but at some point soon, you got to have it locked in for the legitimacy of the November election, whatever that may be.

We're going to keep the conversation going with Jim Santel.

He is the host of Amicus, a law review which you can catch every Saturday from 9 a.m.

to 11 a.m.

here on Civic Media.

You can also go to civicmedia.us slash shows and download past episodes.

It's a great program.

Check it out.

Great information coming from Jim, but we'll be talking more with Jim about all the big news coming out of the world of law, including something having to go on with Wisconsin and our voter rolls.

So don't go anywhere.

Stay tuned.

Stay close.

You are listening and we're watching Nightlight with Pete Schwabba and Greg Bach here on this.

Civic Media

Network.

I've got some new

tunes.

Welcome back to Nightlight with Pete Schwabba and Greg Bach here at what seems to be Disco 54 in the later years.

We are coming to you live on Civic Media.

I am Greg Bach.

You're a host.

You're co-host in Racine at Radio Park and all the way up in Marionette, AKA Christmas City, USA,

is Mr.

Pete.

Sorry, Marinette.

Okay, Marinette.

Thank you.

Appreciate it.

We get that a lot.

Were you guys?

Alright, well- Serious disrespect.

Just totally just killed my vibe there,

alright.

Listen, racey boy.

Well, you know what

he's- you know what- Hey, up north is Pete, and then over there, that way over there, western, bound, whatever, who cares, dumbly.

But we are not.

We're we're here tonight with you on nightlight.

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Our question of the evening is summer is here.

What is your vacation spot of choice in Wisconsin?

Let us know.

And right now we're continuing our conversation with host of amicus a law review every single Saturday, 9 a.m.

to 11 a.m.

here on

big media.

Mr. Jim Santel.

He's also a former U. S attorney served under five.

Count him five presidents so he knows his stuff.

And we've been talking about the biggest stories coming out of the world of law.

And one of the bigger stories coming out is coming right from here in Wisconsin regarding the voter rolls as the FBI continues to make their claim that the 2020 election was anything but safe.

talk about efforts that should be put to bed.

Again, this notion that we're still fighting this fight and so what happens is...

under the former Attorney General, her name, you may recall, she was Pamela Bondi, but certainly continued under this Attorney General.

The request goes out to about 30 different states around the country asking for your voter rolls, your voter information, your records, and that includes, again, we don't keep track, of course, of how you vote, but we keep track of if you vote and how frequently you vote, those kinds of things, what your addresses are to ensure registration is proper, all those kinds of things.

And the states to a person, attorneys general in the states have been pushing back saying no.

That's not information that you're entitled to federal government.

And oh, by the way, the request is based upon your assumption that there is voter fraud in our states.

No, that's not true either.

So they go and they challenge this again around the country and not only in the western district of Wisconsin, which is where you are right now and many of your listeners are as well.

This is in Madison.

You've got a federal district court judge.

His name is James Peterson and he takes this up and

And he has an evidentiary hearing on all this.

And he says, just like all sorts of other judges around the country, including one in Maine on the same day last week, basically looks at this and says, government, once again, you've done this wrong.

You're asking for information that is not subject to disclosure under something called the Civil Rights Act of 1960.

He also takes up all these other allegations sort of implicitly and says, I'm not ruling on any of those.

I'm not getting to those.

but Department of Justice, your request for information under this statute, I'm going to deny it because these are not documents that the statute that you've invoked that you yourself have presented this court requires or mandates disclosure under.

So you got it just plain wrong and he dismisses the case.

Once again, the incompetence of the Department of Justice.

As I say, he joins many other federal judges around the country.

I think it's unanimous now.

It's many of them out there telling this Attorney General and

and telling the Department of Justice, no, no, no, no.

And of course, you talk again about government spending time spinning its wheels on things that mean nothing anymore.

This is another one of those, and it is one of those situations where the real reason for this is because we still just can't get rid of that notion that somehow the 2020 election was stolen, as you were just saying, that Joe Biden did not win, that Wisconsin, among other states, is responsible for that.

If only we can get all those voter rolls, we'll be able to prove it here six, seven years later.

It's absurd.

And the judge appropriately found a legal and proper way linguistically to get rid of this.

And it's gone.

Now it's going to be appealed probably the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals.

Difficult to imagine the appeals court they made in Chicago, that they're going to overturn this.

Who knows if the government would appeal this end of the Supreme Court.

But likewise, unlikely that this will ever see the light of day.

beyond district and appeals courts, saying to the government once again, keep your hands off these records.

They're not yours.

And oh, by the way, if you decide to go down this road again, at least get your legal theory correct.

Judge Peterson says you're kind of incompetent and you didn't do this right the first time around.

Oh, what are the odds?

We just have about a minute left.

I'll just ask you, what is your favorite vacation spot in Wisconsin?

I know you're a Milwaukee guy, but you probably seek some R and R occasionally.

I do and I get out all the time out to the West and, you know, going again twice this coming summer.

I'm a big fan of Salk County and Spring Green, where American Players Theater is.

You can go kayaking on the Wisconsin River, do all kinds of wonderful things.

And Spring Green is a huge place for my family and me.

We're going up there again a few weeks or so to see some plays at the American Players Theater, which, by the way, is going to be recognized in the Tonys this coming month or so as the regional theater in America.

Oh, what do you say?

Yeah, our own American Players Theater.

Say that one more time.

Where

is

this place again?

So

people

can know.

It's about 40 miles west of Madison.

It's a beautiful area just where the glacier dumped all that those those small mountains out there.

It is a venue out there in the the woods.

You climb up a small hill to get there and you will watch theater in the round in the woods.

And again, this year they've been spectacular written up in the New York Times always look for them to be featured.

in the Tony Awards from Rockefeller, I'm sorry, from Radio City Music Hall, and they're recognized as the regional theater of the year in the nation in a couple weeks here.

Big deal for

Wisconsin.

Great place, yeah,

for sure.

Love it very much.

Thank you so much, Jim, for being here.

We really appreciate your time and your expertise as always.

Thank you so much for being our guest this evening.

Delighted be with you as always, gentlemen, honored.

you

can catch it every single Saturday from 9 AM to 11 AM.

Catch back issues and back issues magazine talk right there.

Go to civic media dot US slash shows for old episodes.

You can download and listen to those as well, but it is a fantastic program.

You should check it out and we always appreciate Jim being here and sharing his expertise and travel tips as well.

When we come back after the news, we're going to be talking about the question of the night.

What is your favorite Wisconsin's vacation spot?

So let us know.

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A great conversation with Kirk Krause.

He is a Door County native.

He's a film producer, an actor.

He'll be talking about movies, play all sorts of great stuff that's coming up in just a little bit.

And then, of course, we close everything out with the nightcap where we take to the live stream and to the text line.

Hear your thoughts on tonight's question as well as talk about what we have learned on tonight's program.

So don't go anywhere.

We're having some great fun here and coming to you live.

from Radio Park in Racine.

I am Greg Bach, all the way up the coast, Northeast Wisconsin style Marinette, Wisconsin, AKA Christmas City, USA.

Mr. Peach.

And then in Madison at HQ, Mr. Dom Lee, the three of us, like a three fifths Voltron are the Yatter Hay Triangle.

Yes.

Wow.

You don't know what Voltron is, Pete.

What is that again?

Voltron was a Japanese anime cartoon from the 80s where five robot lions come together to make one big super robot that fought the tyranny of universal crime and people like that.

It was pretty cool.

I watched it a lot as a kid.

Yeah,

they

redid it.

They redid it a few years ago.

But yeah, five five pilots in five robot lions and those robot lions come to form one super crime fighting guy named Voltron or lady or person.

I don't know.

Sure.

Robot.

But yeah, all we need is to love it.

Well, we have talker.

We've talked.

So we have four lions.

We just need one more.

maybe you can be that fifth

could be you.

You could be that lucky line.

Mm hmm.

Mm hmm.

All right.

If you missed anything from the first hour, feel free to go back to civic media dot us slash shows.

Find nightlight download episodes.

Listen to them at your leisure as a podcast.

Get caught up.

There's lots of great stuff happening there as well as other programs, including amicus, a law review who was who is hosted, which is hosted by.

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And then great ways you can get in touch with us.

Let's see here.

There's the Civic Media app where you can call in text.

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And participate in text doing contests, which a new one is coming up very soon.

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Drop us an email.

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So those are great ways to stay in touch with us.

But without further ado, let's restate the question of the night and get to your thoughts on it.

Please play the music.

Let's talk about the question.

Okay, question.

Question.

Question.

Pregunta.

Question.

Question.

Okay, I have a question.

Questions.

This question.

Domanda.

Question.

Question.

Questions.

you.

The question is, you know, summer is pretty much coming here.

Like we got just a few more weeks for it's officially summer.

But what is the best vacation spot in Wisconsin?

8557 5248 4285 575 civic again, leave a comment on the live stream.

We are currently streaming on Facebook, YouTube and the platform.

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We'd love to hear from you.

Can also drop your thoughts on our Facebook page on well, Facebook.

We have a nightlight page.

that was really bad setup there.

But yeah, you can always leave your comments there and Pete will read them out.

But really quick, here's a question I have before we ask the question Pete of your, you know, your favorite spot.

What is it like living in a touristy area?

You know, you live in that area where like, I mean, like your population probably skyrockets over the summer.

What's it like living there?

And do you feel the need to like, you know, like, all right, we just got to get out of town right now.

We don't, I wouldn't say Marinette is a vacation destination necessarily, which is interesting because we are directly across the bay from Fish Creek of Green Bay.

So it's the same body of water, but this, I wouldn't say we get a ton of vacations in Marinette.

Where I live in my community, we do have some seasonal homes.

The population in our little neighborhood here tends to go up quite a bit in the summer.

but I wouldn't say the whole area.

Now, Crivitz is a big vacation area, and there are people with cottages in the county and stuff like that, but it's not like Eagle River or Anakwa or one of those areas.

But I remember going to those areas.

One of my answers was gonna be Three Lakes, because that's where my grandma had a cottage, and that was where I spent a lot of my childhood.

Very special place to me.

As an adult, I would say we like to go to Door County.

It's close.

It's a couple of hours away.

If we go around through Green Bay, we don't have a boat where it only takes like 20 minutes to get there.

But yeah, it's got great culture and restaurants.

And, you know, I love Door County.

That's great.

That's a very popular answer.

My sister and my brother-in-law have been going to Door County.

I think now, my goodness gracious, they've been married for over

you know, over 25 years now, they go there once a year at least.

And they usually,

of course,

summer.

Sometimes they even do a winter trip too, just to take in, you know, because that's, I mean, Door Count is getting popular in the winter as well.

But, Dom, what about you?

Do you have memories?

Did your family come to Wisconsin for the summer for like trips and whatnot?

Not a whole lot.

Only when I first moved here for school, University of Wisconsin, Oshkosh, there was a few years where I did go camping in the summertime.

And I, like Pete said, I went to Krivitz, right?

I think that's how the town

of

Krivitz.

And yeah, there was a great...

Yeah, it was great.

Great camping, everything like that.

I'd say that is my favorite.

I do like the Dells as well, but I've gone there quite a few times now to where it's not as good as Krivitz, but I definitely would say.

Definitely a bigger...

Yeah, it's more touristy, I would

say.

The Wisconsin Dells, not as good as Krivitz, but we got water parks.

I have never been, the only thing I know about Krivitz is that there is a Piggly Wiggly there, at least there was.

When I used to work for a refrigerated warehouse, we used to house the like Piggly Wiggly foods that would be distributed to various stores all over the state and store 182 Krivitz.

I remember that.

It's a weird, there are a couple, it has a couple claims to fame.

Most recently, I would say about eight years ago, the Broadway star Julius La Rosa passed away.

in privates and I read that

or I heard that on the

radio.

I'm like, wait a minute, what?

And apparently he had some connection and went there.

and lived out his days in Cribbets.

And then Brett Michaels from Poison, his mom lives there.

And he was in Cribbets a couple summers ago and he claimed he was going to come back and do a big summer concert.

Never happened.

Come on, Brett.

Put your money where your mouth is.

But yeah, his mom and stepdad live in Cribbets, so.

Look what that

cat dragged in, Mr. Brett Michaels.

Well done.

That's why you go there.

Nice.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

But yeah, it's a beautiful area.

Absolutely.

Well, I can only say from what I've heard about it.

I should check it out one of these days.

But we got ourselves some text message thoughts here.

Dom, let's kick it off with you.

What are the people saying regarding tonight's question?

What is your favorite vacation spot in Wisconsin?