Transcript
Chris Knopf on Boundary Waters & Proposed Mining (Hour 1)
Nite Lite with Pete Schwaba and Greg Bach · Thu Apr 30, 2026
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From Washington to Hollywood and right back to Wisconsin.
It's Night Light with Pete Schwabba and Greg Bach.
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You know, I really expected more professional behavior from you.
It's news and culture without the noise.
Yeah, come on!
Here's Pete Schwabba and Greg Bach.
Dude!
Welcome to Night Light, ladies and gentlemen.
I hope I didn't come in too early there, Dom.
I came in before the point.
Is it okay?
It was perfect.
It was okay.
Beautiful.
I am Pete Schwabba, joined as always by Mr. Greg Bach, who comes to us live from Radio Park, just down the coast here in Wisconsin.
I, of course, am in Marinette, Wisconsin, Christmas City, USA.
And our pal, Dom Lee, is running the board and producing the show from Civic Media headquarters in Madison.
Gentlemen, how are you?
We're just trying to help Tom.
We're here to give you some guidance and you know advice as needed I don't like to be in your face about it, but I appreciate you reaching out and being open to change
Look, I am I am all for people making important changes in their lives and I do not want to be the person who like yucks You're young, but I do think it's funny that you think Caesar salad is a step up in healthy eating It makes me wonder what you're eating on a regular basis where you're like, you know, I'd rather have that salad that is a sloped and cream sauce with a touch of anchovy flavoring
Dude, you have to?
get my cholesterol down
He doesn't have to worry about his cholesterol at this age.
I would imagine, but you got to admit, Greg, a Caesar salad, you know, and I, when I do it, sometimes I just crave it like with pizza or pasta.
And I like, I just don't put much dressing on.
They are, they're delicious at times.
A Caesar salad?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, but in Caesar salad, you can't have without dressing.
Like you can't
Like, yeah.
Cause part of the design of Caesar salad is, is the dressing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
My
does not eat salad dressing.
When she gets a salad at a restaurant, no dressing.
And at this point, people are more used to it.
But back in the day, when we first got together, the wait staff would be like, excuse me.
Like nose dressing?
Like, are you okay?
Blink twice if you're okay.
Is it his fault?
Did he tell you to do this?
Some kind of weird Stockholm
thing.
Yeah,
exactly, exactly, exactly.
But I'm glad you don't have a stomachache.
Seriously, that's important.
And if you did, I would hope you go to the doctor, but I'm glad you're making somewhat better choices.
Good strides.
I tried to inflict some medical advice on you yesterday, Dom, and I'm sorry about that.
I know I was probably out of line.
No, you were not.
You were
I mean, it's not like you came in with like a stethoscope and said, all right, kid, open up and say, ah, just try to relax.
I said basically because I had a colonoscopy a couple of weeks ago.
I'm trying to, I'm like, got a Joe DiMaggio hitting streak here with mentioning colonoscopy subsequent shows.
We need a bingo card for this show.
And on there can be colonoscopy.
There's got to be big arch, Jimmy John's pizza farm.
And then, you know, maybe your free space.
Like we could just a whole card to put that on the website and people can play nightlight bingo.
And if you get all of them, maybe we'll, you know, you'll get a prize and that prize being a wonderful sense of accomplishment.
Right.?
We'll put all our dog jokes up there, like the ones that we deserve to be chastised for.?
Right.
Sorry, I just saw a text message.
I need to wake you Greg.?
No, I just saw a text message come in from John and Madison,
our?
resident.
I think he likes to, he likes to disagree with us regularly.
I feel like John Murray does.
Oh John Murray,
yeah.
Yeah, he says, come on man, Caesar salad has very little dressing.
You shake it up, you shake it in a bag, so stupidly healthy, my God.
Sure, sure.
Boy, he's got an edge to him today, doesn't he?
Between Jules's texts yesterday and this one, man, I'm just feeling like, I'm feeling like gold.
I take that thought John Murray to a doctor near you.
And I want to, it can't be Trump's doctor who looks like a dude who's like literally like the hang 10 like emoji comes to life.
So, but yeah, I, uh, no, trust me, I enjoy a Caesar salad and I enjoy pizza and I enjoy all those.
It's just, I have to be very, very, um, cognizant of what I mean at what time and especially how much that's the problem.
I know they're not good for you.
I'm just saying I enjoy a Caesar salad with the right food.
That's all I'm saying.
Hey, we got a great show tonight, folks, despite what you've just heard.
All right.
I was mailing that in.
I'm sorry.
I got us down that Caesar salad track and got John riled up and made Greg defend himself.
I didn't mean to do that, but we do have a great show tonight.
We have an outstanding guest, Greg.
Did you know that?
Yes.
I didn't know, but I know who the guest is and Dom knows who the guest is, but why don't you tell the people who the guest is?
Chris Dopp will be here.
He is the executive director of Friends of the Boundary Waters Wilderness.
It's going to be a great talk because we have this beautiful area of the country just north, well just west of me and a little bit north.
It's weird.
I'm so far north and you can still go like three hours north in Wisconsin if you go west.
It's insanity, but there are beautiful parts of the state over there as well as Minnesota and the UP.
And Chris is going to join us to talk about the boundary waters and mining and all kinds of stuff.
That'll be an interesting conversation.
And then in hour two, ladies and gentlemen, you've waited for it.
It's here.
We're excited.
We're loaded up here with movie knowledge.
Goodfellas tonight is what we're talking about in hour number two.
It's our nightlight movie club.
And tonight's film is Goodfellas.
So we hope you'll join the conversation via text, phone, whatever.
Give us your opinions, your favorite lines or scenes or actors.
It's all on the table.
It's going to be fun.
Give us your favorite line.
Remember, we are FCC compliant.
Yes.
And that movie
is not
correct.
Oh, my God, too.
Can you imagine Goodfellas rated PG?
Oh, good.
Honestly, that would not even be a good movie.
How am I fricking funny to you?
Huh?
Huh?
Well,
am I
a freaking clown?
I'm saying this because there are people out there.
They don't need to swear swearing.
Yes, they do.
If it's that kind of movie, if it's grounded in reality based on the topic, you absolutely have to swear.
And it's a better movie because of that.
I will defend swears any day of the week.
I don't get down on the whole thing.
Well, people don't need it.
I mean, no, no one needs to swear.
That's true.
Like there's nobody's life is at stake.
There's nobody, you better swear or we're going to throw you over a bridge.
No, but sometimes you do.
Sometimes you don't.
And then, you know, it's like, it doesn't make you less.
Like there's always those reports you see come around like people who swear are smarter or have more intelligence.
But it's like, eh, people who swear are people who swear and people who don't, they just don't.
That's fine.
I just think it's fun.
It's fun
to
swear.
It's bleep and fun.
Don, do you swear on it?
Like, like when you're away from us,
You know when you're around the family or your girlfriend or making tacos for your roommate Do you swear?
Are you kind of a potty mouth?
I'm a
That just slipped out did everyone did everyone hear that he like said like I'm gonna get beaten for it
Crazy Dom.
I hope you
don't look at us blink twice if you're okay
good.
Now he's just blinking uncontrollably.
I don't know what's happening.
That's his 911
call.
Yeah.
It's
Morris code.
It's Morris code for swears, I can't say on the air.
Oh, man.
Well, we hope everybody joins in the conversation.
It's going to be a good one.
And we do have a, should we get to the question?
What do you think?
Let's do that.
Let's, why not?
And it's related.
Oh, I guess Dom thought I was done.
Oh, yeah.
If you were in the mob, folks, what would your gangster nickname be?
Tonight's movie for Movie Club is Goodfellas, and we saw a bunch of great nicknames for gangsters in that classic scene where they enter the restaurant.
So let us know what your gangster nickname would be.
Be part of the fun.
There's a theme tonight, folks, and it's gangsters in the mob thanks to Movie Club and Goodfellas.
eight five five seven five two four eight four two eight five five seven five civic you can also text us on the app or if you're watching the radio on youtube facebook or uh x twitter go ahead and drop us a stream comment and let us know what your gangster nickname would be
all right
i've thought about this long and hard because i thought about joining the mob once
well you could join the mob but you can't join the mafio so i can't be a made guy right no you cannot
You know, I don't think I'd be good at we'll talk more about that in the in the second hour because I was you know, yeah And I won't and I won't
lie
my answer didn't come from deep creativity I used the generator website because I was like, I can't
really.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Wow.
Sounds like you quirked your bed there, buddy.
Wow.
Tom, are you 100% Italian?
He has, like, James John, famous sandwich maker.
See, you guys are coming up with Jimmy John's more than me
you know?
And this is...
mean, I just will never forget where you're like, I learned most of my Italian heritage from Jimmy John's.
I
appreciate your
honesty,
Dom.
I have no words.
I have no words.
You better not because you swear a lot apparently.
Yeah,
Mr. Potty Mouse producer All right, so we've got some news we got to get to some current events happening in the world You can't stop it folks.
We might as well discuss it.
Dom.
What do you say?
So it looks like after 75 days
of a partial shutdown that no one was really talking about that much.
The Republicans held a voice vote to reopen that part of the government and funding DHS.
And what's very interesting about this is that they did it without funding, with more funding to ICE.
ICE is still funded, but it wasn't with an increase to funding for ICE.
And this is a very interesting article that we went from CNN, excuse me, that we'll put in the show notes that
Honestly, this article is very interesting because it just reads as a textbook squabbling within the, within the Republican party.
You've got centrist.
You got a hard right.
You got a hardliner, mega, all squabbling, fighting each other, saying, you guys, like some people saying, we got to get this done.
We need to re, we need to get these people paid.
Cause here's the thing is TSA agents around the country, not all of them, but a lot of them are not being paid right now and they are still working.
So part, and that was having to do with this.
mini partial shutdown that was going on.
But as of today, they did a voice vote.
They did one through the Senate earlier in the week or last week.
And this week, they did one with the house and they will be funding DHS without funding.
We'll give you more funding to ICE, which again, this article, it's kind of hilarious to watch because this
What used to be, to me, a party that was always together is so fractured, but still seemed to all be sucking up to Donald Trump in the mega movement.
It's interesting
what you just said there, because the Republicans are typically rank and file, man.
They line up, they are on point as a party, and that's part of the frustrating thing about being a Democrat.
If you're a Democrat, there's a lot of different people in that tent.
And it's not as easy to do that.
So it is surprising that they were fractured on this a little bit.
But I guess DHS secretary Mark Wayne Mullen threatened to get certain Republicans in a headlock.
Maybe that's how they get it.
It is weird because I haven't seen and this is nice, Greg.
We haven't really seen much of ice in the news.
They got all this bad press deservedly so.
But I haven't seen guys in jeans and high tops with high powered weapons since my last militia
meeting.
That's the
reason why you haven't seen that is because what this is actually, that's very targeted.
That's Mark Wayne Mullen.
You brought him up.
He wants to, he doesn't want to do what they were doing in Minneapolis anymore.
I mean, it doesn't mean they won't, but what they're doing
is
they're really sneaking their way into law enforcement.
And in states like Texas and Florida, the sheriff's departments across the state must work with DH or work with, sorry, with ice.
And now what they're doing is ISIS empowering and deputizing officers to do their work that we saw them doing in the streets.
And then basically acting as like, all right, you arrest them, we'll come pick them up.
They haven't gone away.
They've just gotten quieter.
And they're now letting the local cops do the work for them.
And they're doing it in ways that will threaten funding, but also incentivize them as well.
So they haven't gone away.
They're just, they're working smarter, Pete.
Quote smarter.
All right, that's Greg Bach, ladies and gentlemen.
Great stuff there.
We are coming back with two more big stories.
This is Nightlight with Pete
Schwabbe and Greg
Bach.
You're listening to Civic Media.
Stay up to date on the latest news and information for your local community and Wisconsin by signing up for our free email newsletter.
Visit civicmedia.us slash email to get started.
Welcome back to Nightlight.
Hope you are having a fantastic
Thursday night, everybody.
And it is great to have you with us here.
I am Pete Schwabba sitting just up the coast from Greg Bach, and we are in the middle of our news stories.
Hey, Greg, I just want to say before we go any further, we got a great text last night from
a
long time listener tonight, Light.
And I know she listened to you when you were with Jane, too.
Sherry from Horicon reached
out?
after
the show.
Unfortunately, we didn't see her text, but she said,
Harry Met Sally is the movie that makes her think of New York City.
It was great to hear from you, Sherry.
And?
we did miss you and your name has come up periodically.
And we've
thought, we said to ourselves, where is Sherry?
So we're very happy.
I was very, very excited to see that.
And also thank you for listening to the repeat that was came in during the replay.
So that's always nice to hear as well.
Well, that was during the replay.
Oh, wow.
Look at that.
That's our data.
We have all these data points.
We do research here.
I'm just knee-deep in research here.
My gosh, friends.
As soon as we're off the air, the lab coats come on and the Petri dishes are front and center.
Oh, yeah.
And the Bunsen burners are just burning their Bunsons and it's just, oh my gosh.
All right.
So we were in the middle of, hey, we're going to have a great talk in a few minutes, folks.
After the news at the bottom of the hour, Chris Knopf.
Chris Knopf?
How are we saying that?
Mark Knopfler?
I think it's Knopf.
But
we'll
find out.
But he is a great guest.
And we're very excited to talk to him about the boundary waters up in northern Wisconsin and Minnesota and conservation and all kinds of great stuff that is coming up in just a few minutes.
And it's nightlight movie club tonight.
And our number two tonight's movie is good fellas.
Please be part of the conversation.
But right now, I think we need to get back to our current event stories down.
All right.
Greg, I don't know how you feel about the president's name, signature picture, whatever being on money.
Most people don't like that, according to ABC News.
And they also oppose the Trump ballroom that he spoke incessantly about.
Well, since it's inception or the concept, I should say, after the supposed assassination attempt the other night, a lot of right-wing talking point people came out and said, this is why we need the ballroom to which
at which point other people, including yourself, pushed back and said, well, where's he going to go watch UFC events?
Where's he going to go?
You
said, where's he going to go golf?
And that's a great point.
Like he can't do everything in the ballroom.
It's kind of ridiculous, but most Americans, two to one opposed the ballroom and even more opposed seeing his name on money.
Yeah.
It's, yes.
It was, let's see here.
The, the ballroom was opposed two to one.
The money was opposed, I think by a larger majority
and three,
three to one.
And the Trump.
Oh, no, the, no, the, oh, I'm sorry.
The Trump arch was a two to one and the signature on money was five to one in dissent, not in favor.
Like this is the only people who are for this are the bootlickers, the sick of fans, the pundits, Trump himself.
They want this.
The people who, there are people probably who voted for him who was saying like, yeah, we don't need this.
Why are we doing this?
So,
And also, so this ABC news article that we were reading for this story, what's funny is that it shows right here that that ballroom cannot function as a full auditorium for certain, like the White House Correspondents' Dinner holds 2,400 people in that hotel ballroom.
This ballroom, Trump's ballroom, where the East Room used to be, would only hold 1,000 people.
Plus, this was a non-presidential White House event.
Anything that's well, not anything, but a lot of things that was offsite.
Those are different places.
So you can't like, if they have the White House correspondence, like that, that would mean that the country would be paying for that.
That's the thing I don't understand.
There's, there's no details here.
There's no nothing here.
It's just, we need the ballroom.
See what happened.
Like there were no metal detectors and they tried to blame the security.
It's like the secret service sets that up.
I know that for a fact, because I used to work in local government.
And when the President, President Obama, came to Racine, the amount of security that the Secret Service had to do weeks beforehand was extensive, exhaustive, and completely serious.
Like, I'm not saying I cracked jokes with the Secret Service, but they showed very quickly that they're not here to like even like...
do that.
They're here for one job and that's to keep the president safe.
And to me, you cannot blame the hotel for not having security.
You blame secret service and the government because they're the ones who impose that.
So to me, that is absolutely ridiculous.
This is just a ridiculous idea.
And I, I can't believe more people aren't against this.
Well, I think a lot of people are against it.
It seems like it.
And there's all kinds of stories coming out.
So I mean, you said before the show, no metal detectors.
at the Correspondence Center, like what is going on?
I think as more stuff comes to light with that, we're going to see it.
But the money thing would be kind of just a middle finger to people who don't like him.
Kids have to go to,
kids have to want to melt Tetris go to school.
Right.
Exactly.
All right.
I think we're ready for our next, a big story.
I saw this, I don't know where I see this.
I think it was ABC News also.
A guy named Andy Donaldson is trying to break the Guinness Book of World Records after swimming with 5,500 crocodiles.
That's a little deceptive.
He wasn't like in a pool, but he was swimming a river.
He was in a kid's pool.
It was very weird.
He was swimming in the Ord River, which is in Australia.
And he did have a boat next to him.
I mean, I'm not trying to denigrate what this guy did, but you know.
He had a boat next to him.
They could have pulled him in quickly.
I'm sure a crocodile could have cut him in half just as fast.
But this is what I thought was funny, Greg.
Like I would root for this guy.
Anyone who wants to do a personal best at anything, swimming, running, whatever, go for it.
I think he swam 34 miles.
Someone in the crowd or the gallery put a fake crocodile head in the water just to freak him out.
Like,
why?
Come on.
When it comes to Guinness World Records, I'm like, are we still doing this?
Are we like, we're a society that still does this?
Cause it's not even like, to me, it's always the most ridiculous thing.
Like I walked 38 miles with 14 teacups on my head.
I'm a world record holder.
Cool.
I ate 17 big arches within the span of two
weeks.
Yeah,
I hear you.
Tell me more about your internet girlfriend.
I've got 84 internet girlfriends.
That's a record.
We are coming back folks with Chris Knopp.
He will be here to discuss the boundary waters canoe areas and why we need to protect them.
This is Night Light with Pete Schwabba and Greg Bach on the Civic Media Network.
Welcome back.
You've got the Civic Media Network folks.
I am Pete Schwabba.
He is Greg Bach and we are Night Light along with
Dom Lee who is working the board and producing the show from Civic Media headquarters in Madison is great to have you with us tonight.
It is tonight is nightlight movie club folks.
It's Thursday night.
That means an hour number two.
We will be discussing tonight's film good fellas and we hope you will join us and be part of the conversation.
You can share your favorite characters, phrases, scenes, actors, whatever be part of the conversation.
That is an hour number two.
Pardon me.
Our question of the night is in
the spirit of good fellows.
If you were in the mob, what would your gangster nickname be?
Let us know at 855-752-4842-8557.
You can also text us on the app or the stream.
Right now, it is my pleasure to welcome our first guest of the night.
He's the executive director of Friends of the Boundary Waters Wilderness.
Chris Knopp joins us tonight on Nightlight.
Welcome, Chris.
How are you?
I am doing well.
Thank you so much, Pete.
Great to be here.
Thanks, Greg.
Thanks.
Great to have you.
Let's just start out, tell us what you do, what Friends of the Boundary Waters Wilderness does.
Give us some background on the organization and maybe how you ended up there.
Sure, sure.
We're a nonprofit organization that is dedicated to protecting the Boundary Waters Canoe area, Wilderness area in northeast Minnesota.
And for folks that haven't been up there, this is a million acres of wilderness of over a thousand lakes.
And for fun, you carry the canoe on your shoulders from lake to lake on portage trails.
It is so beautiful, so relaxing.
It's an amazing place.
And what we do as a nonprofit, we're actually celebrating our 50th anniversary.
We were founded on May 7, 1976 at a diner called Toby's Diner in Hinkley, Minnesota off of Interstate 35.
And we're actually bringing some of our founders back next week on May 7th to to have a breakfast.
So it's in Hinkley, Minnesota on May 7th at 1030.
It's a free breakfast open to anyone.
You can get whatever carbs or sugar or fat, you know, there's cinnamon buns to do that.
But you had me
free.
Yes, not calorie free, not heart attack free, but it'll be free, free to free to attend.
And it was
So we were founded by ordinary people that just loved going to the boundary waters, paddling these beautiful lakes where you can literally drink out of the lakes.
You can still drink out of the lakes without having to treat it right in the middle lake.
go and drink it, catch a walleye and smallmouth bass and have it for a lunch or dinner.
It is that kind of a place where you connect with yourself, connect with your friends, connect with your family by doing.
by doing these outdoor experiences.
So you camp overnight and you go from campsite to campsite.
So there are, again, 1,000 lakes up there to explore.
It is just an amazing place.
And so we were founded in 1976 to put into place protections that kept at a wilderness area.
So you wouldn't have logging in the wilderness that you wouldn't have.
on some lakes you have motors but on most lakes you don't have motors so it's kind of a motorless area where you go from canoe canoe by canoe and not not so much motor boats and uh and ever since then we have met every challenge to the wilderness uh in this in in the ensuing 50 years and and right now we've been uh leading the fight to protect this beautiful wilderness area from the threat of copper nickel sulfide mine.
So there's a proposed mine at the very edge of this wilderness area that would put sulfuric acid into the water and all these lakes are interconnected.
And so the sulfuric acid would go in among all the lakes there and really destroy the wilderness area as we know it.
You know, when we talk about whether it's Minnesota or Canada, Michigan, Wisconsin, one thing that we're all known for is not only our great beautiful lands, but the huge dedication to conservation, you know, Wisconsin, the home of Earth Day and all that wonderful.
This is something that I can imagine, Chris, that you're hearing from people that is not popular and that does not mean folks voted for one specific person.
People who hunt and fish and vote one way are the same people as people who hunt and fish and vote another way.
I'm sure you're hearing from folks that this is not popular and people are nervous about the possibility of mining these beautiful areas, correct?
Absolutely.
We have heard in the last...
the last three weeks you're literally from hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people probably millions at this point around the country saying that hey we love the boundary waters and we want to protect it you know this is not about wearing a you know a blue uniform or a red uniform this is about
core kind of Midwestern values of hunting, fishing, and connecting with family and friends around a campfire after a long day of paddling.
And so what's proposed is that it's a Chilean mining company called Antifagasta that wants to dig this mine right at the edge.
And so what happened, it was just signed earlier this week.
by the president, it would open up these 225,000 acres of public lands, our lands, adjacent to the boundary waters to this type of mining.
And so this is on federal land, public lands, and they still have to go through permitting, but right now it allows for this to possibly happen.
And so we've been fighting this for literally two decades, and the battle will continue, but that's the threat that's out there.
Chris, can you explain why the type of mining they're doing or they want to do is so dangerous and so much worse than iron ore mining?
Can the dangers of copper and nickel to the waters?
Sure.
You know, when you do the traditional iron mining, Minnesota has an honored tradition of iron mining, and you can swim in an old iron pit.
Now what's different with copper nickel sulfide mining is that the rock is bound up with sulfide and the amount of actual copper and nickel in the rock, it's not like 50% of the rock, it's not like 25% of the rock.
It's not 10% of the rock.
It's not even 1% of the rock.
It's like less than 0.5%.
So you get 99.5% waste and you crush it for less than this 1%, half of 1%.
And when you crush that rock, that sulfide mixes with water and creates sulfuric acid.
You don't get that with tachyneid mine.
And so that's how it's different.
So okay, what happens when you get that sulfuric acid in the water?
It takes up mercury that's in the soil and otherwise inert and puts it in the water.
It's called methylmercury.
And already 10% of the people live in Northeastern Minnesota have elevated levels of mercury.
So this makes that situation work.
Mercury is a neurotoxin.
It's
really dangerous, especially for small children as their brain develops.
And it bio accumulates the plants and then it gets into the fish.
And so it gets concentrated as it goes up the food chain there.
And the other thing it would do, among the many other things, it would kill the wild rice.
So the wild rice is very, very sensitive to the levels of sulfate.
And it's central to the culture of the Anishinaabe tribes of northeastern Minnesota, northwestern Wisconsin.
And so this would kill the wild rice in the waters there.
So those are kind of like
too big problems that are different than tech and I mining.
So this is not your, your, your, your father's or grandfather's or great grandfather's tech and I'm mighty.
This is something new and different.
And it's, it's being promoted by these foreign mining companies.
Well, the big one is from Chile, as I mentioned, another from another from Switzerland and another from, from Spain.
So is this, you know, we're seeing a lot of
conversation, controversy, outrage over data centers in Wisconsin and around the country.
And this is something I'm sure your group has been working on for a long time.
I mean, people have been trying to push back regulations on environmental protections for decades since they were put into place because business wants to business.
What are you hearing from like as local leaders?
We talk about the people that you heard from.
But what are you hearing from local leaders, as far as elected officials, whether it's common counsel, county supervisors, or higher up about what's happening right here?
Do you hear people saying, well, let's see what happens?
Or do you see folks who are in places of authority pushing back saying we cannot do this?
Sure.
two big things, you know, in general, that leaders are outraged about it.
And it is because that we have a strong tradition of heritage of clean water in the state.
people clean water really resonates, you know, on on the can of hams beer, it says the land of sky blue water.
And so you know, when you when you when that's when you put that on your beer can, you know, that's part of your your heritage.
But but it really is, you know, we have, you know, 11,842 lakes in Minnesota.
That's the answer to the trivia question, guys.
Yeah.
What?
How many how many lakes are in in Minnesota?
And, you know, we have the greatest the Great Lakes that we share with Wisconsin.
and Lake Superior and where the headwaters of the Mississippi River.
So water is central to Minnesota's identity.
And so elected leaders when this passed the U.S.
Senate two weeks ago, not quite two weeks ago, some were literally in tears at the Minnesota State Capitol.
And so the other part of this is that, okay, we're not gonna be able to protect this at the federal level right now.
Changes have to be made there.
that we at the state level, we in Minnesota, no one has to end up from Minnesota and against a federal government that's...
reckless.
And so what we need to do is pass state laws and act right now.
And so this is the big thing for us right now is to say we have agency over a future in Minnesota.
But here's kind of the interesting dynamic on this, that we have not had an actual hearing on the threat from toxic copper nickel sulfide mining at the Minnesota legislature since 2009.
It's unbelievable.
17 years.
I mean, J.J.
McCarthy, the quarterback was in second grade at the time.
It's unreal.
It's unreal.
And so we need real boundary waters champions to stand up now for this.
We're trying to push for that.
Our guest is executive director of Friends of the Boundary Waters Wilderness.
Chris Knopp has joined us over the stream and just made a reference to J.J.
McCarthy.
I have to be honest, Chris.
I was not expecting to hear his name during this interview.
That goes on the bingo card.
He has a free space one right there.
Boom.
There we go.
Oh my goodness.
Chris, I'm on the other side of Wisconsin.
I live in a little town on the waters of Green Bay.
We have a PFAS issue here.
And part of the problem, it seems like nobody wants that.
But the damage was done before people found out.
And it seems like you guys are out in front of this.
But is there
a?
coalition between Upper Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota?
Because I feel like if people can stop this, most of the people who are informed know about it.
That's not the problem.
It's the people that might get ticked off 10 years from now.
How do you alert everybody that this is clean water?
And once it's gone, it's gone.
you
Pete, you hit on something that's super important, that what we're doing at Friends of the Boundary Waters is creating a clean water movement.
And so we are reaching out to businesses, to other organizations, to faith institutions, and individuals, and creating a movement.
So this is, we have actually our Friends of the Boundary Waters clean water movement, clean water coalition that meets monthly.
We have the via Zoom meetings.
And then we have a citizen action network that makes phone calls.
So we had someone, someone who's working on this issue in the porkies in Michigan speak earlier this month on this.
We were meeting with, we talked with people in Wisconsin as well.
So this is a kind of a Northland challenge with that Michigan, Wisconsin and Minnesota all faced.
And so this is, we're creating a movement and we do that.
We're doing that here at Friends of the Boundary Waters.
Let's pick up there.
We're going to do a very short break, and then we'll be back and have a few more minutes with our guest, Chris Knopp, from the Boundary Waters Wilderness.
We are Nightlight, and I am Pete Schwab.
He is Greg Bach.
We are coming right back.
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Welcome back.
This is Nightlight with Pete Schwabba and Greg Bach.
It is great to have you with us on this Thursday night as we discuss all the fun things in life.
We are doing Movie Club in hour number two and tonight's film is Good Fellows.
Be part of the conversation.
Our question of the night is if you were in the mob, what would your gangster nickname be?
I've tried to join the mob several times.
They won't have me, but let us know what your nickname would be.
Our guest at the moment is Mr. Chris Knopp.
He is the executive director of Friends of the Boundary Waters Wilderness.
He joins us over the stream from Minnesota.
Chris, before the break, you were talking about this coalition of people between the UP and Wisconsin and Minnesota.
All the clean water affects us all.
Dirty water affects us all.
Polluted water, I should say.
Where can people find out more information?
And where can they go just to gather more information?
Sure.
Thanks, Pete.
People can reach out to us here at our website for Friends of the Boundary Waters.
It's www.friends-bwca.org.
Or you could give me a call if you want.
I take phone calls all the time.
My number is 651-999-9565.
So 651-999-9565.
text me, call me, and I can get you the information that you need.
Wow, that's very generous.
Thank you.
We have some, we actually have some comments and some text messages on the line here.
Let's see.
They didn't identify themselves.
We looked through it.
It says, while we're on the conversation, any plans to discuss potential changes to the file?
changes following the 2023 second versus EPA decision where the EPA narrowed the definition.
This is a very long question.
I don't know if you have the answer to it, but requiring wetlands to have a continuous surface connection to the traditional navigable waters, significantly limiting federal authority.
That's a mouthful.
I'm glad I got that out in one.
I don't know if you have any thoughts on that one, but I just liked some individuals who are, who are getting in touch with us, letting us know their concerns with this matter as well.
Are there any, do you have anything to say on that?
Sure.
So what that's referring to is a Supreme Court case that narrowed the definition of what can be protected under the Federal Clean Water Act as a wetland.
So it really narrowed it down where basically you had to be in waters that could be navigated by a boat.
And we know that in any of the lakes in Wisconsin or Michigan or Minnesota where those wetlands that are kind of off
that absorb all those big rainstorms that we've had here where flooding happens.
They're super important.
And so what needs to be done is the Federal Clean Water Act needs to be rewritten to make it clear that those wetlands that absorb all that water and big rainstorms is protected under the Clean Water Act so that they don't get filled in and we don't have those big runoffs that create the huge flooding that you've had all across
Wisconsin.
Yes, absolutely.
We have another text here from Mark from Prairie to SAC.
It says, it's not just the BWCA that is at risk.
It's also Voyagers National Park to the west of the BWCA.
And if I'm saying this right, Cutico Provincial Park to the north in Ontario, they are all connected.
Are you part of other networks, Chris, across the country?
Sure.
So what that question gets at is that this is an ecosystem that is very expansive.
It goes into the Aquatico Provincial Park in Canada, as well as the Boundary Waters Canary Wilderness, and then it extends west.
So the pollution from this would flow north.
right along the Canadian border and then through Voyager's National Park into Canada.
So this is a really an international scandal here that we would allow this type of pollution to impact this interconnected waterway.
And so we're in touch with the allies throughout the region.
Interestingly, in Canada, Canada has a very big extractive industry.
culture.
And so Canadian officials can be a little mixed on this and not always be protective of their water resources.
But yes, so this is a binational Canada US problem.
And yes, it extends throughout this interconnected waterways throughout the region there.
We only have a couple minutes left and this is an election year here in Wisconsin and you talked about officials in Minnesota doing the work needed to protect the waters.
That's something we've gone back and forth in Wisconsin.
When folks are talking to the people who are knocking on the doors looking to
take those jobs in Madison to represent the people.
If this is something that concerned them, how do they frame their questions to say like, are you going to protect our waters or not?
I mean, that's the simple way of putting it.
But what do you say to folks who like, you know, how do I ask the question for those who are running for office?
So I know I'm voting for the person who represents my values.
Sure.
We ask people, what are your core values?
What do you value?
What experiences are deepest to you?
Is it teaching your grandson to swim or teaching a family member to fish?
What are those core experiences that mean something to you?
And I must tell you, we actually have a situation here that's kind of interesting that you might not think of.
would be a case in Minnesota, but actually our Minnesota governor can cancel one of the state mineral leases of this Chilean mining company.
It would kill this mining project at the edge of the boundary waters, but it would be the first step.
on the road.
So what we need to do is we need to stop these different mineral releases at the federal and state level.
But at the state level, we're trying to get our governor here in Minnesota to cancel, take the first step on this long road to protecting the boundary waters by canceling the
twin metals, one of the twin metal statement releases that's owned by this big Chilean company called the Anifagasta.
So, so we're trying to get our supporters to respectfully ask the governor, you know, stand up for, for Minnesota.
You've done a great job of doing that.
You can stand up for the boundary waters against the federal government now.
That's great.
Chris, we appreciate your time tonight.
Real quick, we got about 30 seconds left.
What would your gangster nickname be?
It sounds like you kind of are a gangster
for what you're doing, but what
would we call you?
Uh, the paddler for a canoe pad.
Love it.
Uh, Chris,
the paddler or say it again.
Oh, nicely done.
Greg Bach.
All right.
Thanks so much, Chris.
Continue success and good luck with your efforts.
And thank you for spending some time with us tonight.
Great.
Thank you, Pete.
Thank you, Greg.
You got it.
All right.
We're coming right back for act two and good fellas or nightlight movie club.
I'm Peach Wabah.
He's Greg Bach.
This is night.
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