Anisha Steephen on Tax Season, IRS Delays & Who It Impacts Most (Hour 1)

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From Washington to Hollywood and right back to Wisconsin.

It's Night Light with Pete Schwabba and Greg Bach.

Connecting the dots on the stories shaping our world with smart takes, sharp humor, and plenty of personality.

You know, I really expected more professional behavior from you.

It's news and culture without the noise.

Yeah, come on!

Here's Pete Schwabba and Greg Bach.

Dude!

Alright.

Hey, welcome everybody.

I am Pete Schwabba along with Greg Bach.

And Mr. Dom Lee, working the board in Madison.

Greg, of course, is in Racine Radio Park.

I will never get that wrong.

I am in Christmas City, USA here in Marinette, Wisconsin on this gorgeous Wednesday night here on the Civic Media Network.

It is great to have you.

We hope to ease your transition from the day, the work day, the drive home, whatever, to a pleasant, blissful evening.

I think we can do that,

Greg.

I can do that because the Brewers beat Tampa Bay this afternoon.

Eight to two, eight to two.

So they're three and

one.

No, they're five and one.

They're five and

one.

Five and

one.

They're five and one friends.

You know, five and one.

It's funny.

I, when I was younger, I used to follow every single game in the baseball season.

I can't even get excited about it now until like mid July.

Oh, that's a long season, dude.

I have, I went, I went from, okay, so I don't think I've ever told you guys this story, but I, my baseball journey is interesting because 10 years ago, yeah, 10 years ago, if you would have said to me.

Was that a sarcastic transition music?

Okay, well then I won't tell my story story is dead the story is dead and thus and thus a wonderful story about becoming a bit better human.

Oh

Come on done That was uncalled.

I'm sorry Greg.

Please lay it on us.

I Like baseball and a story.

All right, there we go

We really didn't have the kind of bite I was expecting.

Well, it was gonna bite.

It was gonna have a good turn.

It was gonna have a good, the second act was amazing.

But

then all of

a sudden Dom comes in with his sarcastic harps.

It just felt like

a highfalutin transition music.

I just, I don't know what to say.

Here's what we'll do.

This is what I do at home.

Cause I have sarcastic kids and we're all kind of like, try to be funny and sometimes somebody's feelings get hurt and we wait a minute and then we want to tell the story.

Cause I would like to hear the story.

My feelings aren't hurt.

I have no feelings.

No, I do.

I totally have feelings.

There's a lot.

There's a lot.

No, just 10 years ago, if you would have asked me if I wanted to go to a baseball game, I would have said, do you even know me?

And I would have laughed in your face.

Really?

Yeah, I didn't like baseball for reasons.

I can get into that to another time.

We don't have the time to get into that story.

But yeah, I just didn't really enjoy baseball.

It's a whole thing.

But point is, 10 years later, I am now the guy who the moment the World Series is over, I'm like, count down to pitchers and catchers reporting like

I am.

Wow.

I am like, for me, it's, I mean, and, and Dom, you'll know this as a white socks fan.

And Pete, you will know this as a Cubs fan.

You live with a certain amount of excitement during the season, but you're always in some level of anxiety because it's, you know, we don't follow.

I don't follow the Dodgers or the Yankees and I'm not used to tons of rings and championship trophies.

So for me, it's always like right now we're five and one, but there's that part of that brewers fan mentality that says, when is it all going to end?

So.

Well, in the off season brings hope.

I get that.

Look, I'm a Bears fan.

We've been struggling for years.

And I might the most exciting time of the year for me, sadly, was the combine free agency and the trap because it brought hope.

And I totally get that, but not that the Brewers are there.

They're a great team.

But yeah, it's, no, I totally get that.

That's awesome.

Hey, we've got a cool thing we have to talk about here before we get to our news stories.

And that is the first ever- We got so

much going on.

So

much happening.

That's true.

So let's do this, then we'll talk about our guests.

Our first ever Nightlight Movie Club, ladies and gentlemen.

We're very excited about this.

It is happening tomorrow in the six o'clock hour.

Yes.

Yes, and we will be talking our movie this week, and we're telling you this ahead of time, hoping that you all will take part in this and be part of the conversation.

Tomorrow you can call in, pardon me, or text in the movie this week.

Our first ever nightclub movie night, movie club night is, speaking of baseball, The Sandlot.

And that's a great one.

The Sandlot, yeah.

It's a great

movie.

So we're all gonna watch it, Dom.

Greg, myself, I've seen it 20 times.

I'm gonna, I'm halfway through a rewatch though, and we encourage everybody listening.

Watch the Sandlot, share your thoughts tomorrow.

We'll explain more about it tomorrow, but that's this week's movie, and we're gonna do this moving forward.

It'll be fun.

Yep.

It will also include a popcorn pick.

There will be a popcorn

pick

in there.

It's Thursday is going to kind of be like movie night in that second hour.

That's what we're going to try to do with movie club.

And so we'll have more information as we go.

This is going to tomorrow is like a, a tester, but we want you in on the ground level with us.

So

if you

can the Sandlot, if you have it on the DVD or the VHS, or maybe even on a beta cassette, I don't know.

Who knows.

On

a 2B

or find it on the Disney PLUS.

It's there to watch as well.

So watch it.

And then tomorrow join us as Pete says, join us and let us know your thoughts.

I'm very much looking forward to this.

I love that movie so

much.

Me too.

I can't wait.

It's a great first movie for us to kick things off with.

But we have a great show tonight, Greg.

We've got Anisha Steven.

We'll be here at 535.

And Anisha is a nationally recognized expert.

in domestic tax policy and economic policy and mission-driven investing.

And here's how desperately I want to talk to her.

I don't even know what mission-driven investing, mission-driven investing is.

So I'm very excited to talk to Anisha.

Tax season is right around the corner.

So she is the perfect, well, it is tax season.

She's the perfect guest to have on just as our taxes are doing a couple of weeks.

Their their title is former senior policy advisor at the Treasury and fellow at the Roosevelt Institute.

It's like, okay, well, I'll just sit here and you talk to me Exactly

that they have a very impressive resume.

So they will join us over the stream Taxes at 535 and then in the second hour one of our nightlight besties Sherry Stoko will be here.

She is a nutritionist and a dietitian

and the founder of Wayless MD and Wellness outside Milwaukee.

We're gonna talk a little bit, Greg, about GLPs.

They're all the rage now for weight loss and diabetes.

Sherry's got all the answers.

They were all the rage for diabetes.

Then they became a weight loss thing.

People are like, Hey, I need my diabetes medication, please.

Wait, wait some.

Yeah.

I'm very much looking forward to this conversation.

Cause if you know me, you know that weight loss, weight struggle, weight loss journeys, things of that nature or something.

I'm very much invested in.

I've done a lot of work and research in this for myself.

I had a podcast for a while that dealt with this stuff.

And so, oh yeah.

I really could, again, another topic I could talk about for hours.

And I can't wait to listen to Sherry explain, especially when it comes to things like these GLPs.

And also just keeping a nutritious diet, because I think that's very, very hard in today's day and age, both with every kind of ingredient our food is stuffed with, but also the fact that food is just more expensive.

And so people

see it as,

well, I can't eat healthy because that's expensive.

Well, you're eating, you're expensive.

We'll talk about more later.

Again, I could literally spend the entire show talking about this topic, so Sherry's

gonna be a

great discussion.

She's great, very informative, lots of fun.

And, you know, having said all that, why don't we get to our nightlight question of the night, Tom?

Let's talk about the question.

Okay, question.

Question.

Question.

Pregunta.

Question.

Question.

Okay, I have a question.

Questions.

This question.

Domanda.

Question.

Question.

Questions.

What athlete has the coolest name?

What athlete has the coolest name?

And boy, how do you have people giving us some interesting ones so far?

Yeah, not necessarily the most phallic name.

I think there was a misconception when the question went out on social media earlier, but those are fun too.

We'll read those.

But, you know, there's a lot of cool names.

And I'm gonna give people an example now just so they know my favorite.

And I have a favorite.

I always thought it was a cool name.

There was a safety who played for the Patriots, and his name was Lawyer Malloy.

It just rolls off the tongue.

Lawyer Malloy.

I love that name.

Lawyer Malloy.

Boy, your parents named you for something, and you did not deliver.

He did not deliver, but

I think he did OK.

15 years in the NFL.

He's probably got a few headaches these days, but probably did very well.

So anyway.

Join the fun 855-752-4842-855-755 Civic.

Let us know what your favorite pro athlete or just athlete name is.

And if you want to go dirty within reason, we can read that.

But if you want to be serious, there are some great names out there.

And sometimes you have a name, Greg, I think you just, you have to go into pro sports.

Absolutely.

And we'll know if you guys are referencing that key and peel sketch.

So we'll know exactly if that's the case.

Exactly.

Yeah.

So like the Carpetron Duke Marriott.

I love that name so much.

It's one of the funniest ones ever.

So, but we'll talk more about that in the second hour.

Let us know your thoughts.

And don't forget, you can also download the Civic Media app.

You can text call.

You can leave a voice message.

And you don't even have to like us to leave a voice message.

I know that I have messages that say, say, Greg, I don't like you.

So, um, yeah, try to use a fake voice.

I'm sorry.

I just, it was one of those days.

I knew it was you immediately.

I

could hear, I could hear like, welcome to Christmasville in the background.

So I was like, oh, it's Pete.

So yeah, do that.

Get the civic media app.

You can listen to the shows live, whether it's talk or music, you can do that all with the civic media.

Get your news.

It's great.

Download it today.

Plus when we have text to win contest, like we just did last week, you can be a part of that.

So be part of the club.

Be cool.

Get the civic media app.

Be part of the show absolutely.

So I think without further ado.

We've got we've got a lot of fun stuff to talk about here.

Yeah, so I think we should get to our our three big things down what the first big story

So

The Supreme Court is hearing oral arguments on whether or not birthright citizenship should be a thing.

This is following President Trump's executive order to limit birthright citizenship in the future, which stipulates that babies born in the United States to undocumented immigrants and some temporary foreign residents will no longer be granted citizenship automatically.

Isn't that convenient, Pete?

I'm pretty sure his son Baron would qualify as a birthright citizen.

So would Marco Rubio.

His parents were not were not citizens when he was born.

This would affect, but the thing is that's the thing is it says it says future.

That limits birthright citizenship in the future stipulates that babies born in the United States the undocumented immigrants and some temporary they'll have a ton of Workarounds and and you know like

oh

don't worry about you.

You're fine You know last time I checked hold on let me see here that that stipulation is he's going to the legal pad part of the Constitution so and

here's

the weird

Here's the interesting thing, too, is that the president was there for oral arguments, which is something you don't generally see.

Was that the first time ever I thought I read that?

Well, I think it was the first time he ever went.

I don't know about

other

presidents, but it's the first time he ever went.

And he was met with a lot of booze because he is not liked, especially on things like this.

There was a whole host of people outside protesting this hearing.

And this is, I mean, honestly, that is...

This is one of, this season, and it's weird, do you say that, but it's the season for the Supreme Court is full of a lot of important decisions.

And this is one of them.

This is about reworking the constitution just so they can have their way with immigrants and voting.

And it's all, it's all part of there.

It's all part of project 2025, which we talked about for

a long time.

Great point.

And according to CNN anyway, it is the, this is the first time a sitting president,

uh, set in on org arguments at the Supreme court.

So there you go.

Do you

think, do you think all of a sudden they were like, and, and here in tonight's today's courtroom and you just heard someone wake up Don, he's asleep again.

It'll be interesting.

I guess I'll have a decision by like end of June.

I think they were saying so, uh, that will be interesting to watch.

It did say here on ABC news, it said a majority of justices

that's hard to say, a majority of justices appeared skeptical of his administration's bid to end birthright citizenship during arguments in the landmark case on today.

So, you know, they can kind of call where it's gonna go based on their questions, but we'll see what happens in June.

At the very least, there's some pushback now from certain justices, Roberts and Barrett and Gourish.

So, yeah, we'll see what happens.

But we've got more stories to get to, folks, our question of the night.

What is the best athlete name?

We are coming right back.

This is the Civic Media Network.

I'm Pete Schwab.

He's Greg Bach, and this is

Nightlight.

Well done, Dumley.

That's wonderful.

Little Sinatra as we send yet another spacecraft to the moon.

Of course, so

they say.

This isn't their first rodeo.

Everything should go fine.

We hope it does.

We'll keep you posted.

This is Nightlight with Pete Schwabba and Greg Bach.

I am Pete Chihuahua sitting downstate for me is Greg Bach.

And we have great show tonight, folks.

Our question of the night is, what is your favorite athlete name?

Could be a pro athlete, college, whatever, could be from Key and Peele like Greg picked.

But share with us a really cool athlete name and we will read it on the radio.

That is always fun.

Right now, we have to get back to our three big stories.

Yes.

The second big story.

This one is.

Pretty amazing.

Go ahead, Craig.

No, go

for it.

You brought this up to me.

Go ahead.

This is

amazing.

I love it.

I don't love it because it usually involves murder and it's very grim.

But a cold case story always fascinates me.

And Kenosha police, according to the Milwaukee Journal, sent him made an arrest in an unsolved murder case from 1977.

68-year-old James Fowler was arrested in Tennessee for

The murder, alleged murder of Ralph Giannoli.

They do have DNA, so I guess it's alleged still.

There's not, well, that's pretty conclusive, but we'll see what happens.

But 1977, he's 68 now, Greg.

That means he was roughly 18 at the time of the murder.

And at the time of the murder, Giannoli, I believe, was like 48.

So I still don't know what the connection between the two people is, but he was strangled and beaten horrible

in Kenosha.

In Kenosha, I mean, I don't, I mean, I can only imagine what kind of, like it's one thing that like it probably brings relief to the family, but it also opens up an old wound for the family.

So hopefully there's some sort of justice.

I mean, again, this man's been arrested.

He has, you know, he's not saying he's guilty.

You know, this is all alleged.

This is all, you know, whatever legal stuff keeps me from getting sued.

But I'm sure we'll find out more.

This is, I mean, I,

This is where my brain goes.

I'm sure there will be a podcast devoted to this story Someone will put it out there

or a

cold case of you know, love we love ourselves some murder But yeah, it's it will be interesting to see where this goes But as we all know the statutes of limitation did not apply to murder and this gentleman What was his name again?

James Fowler?

I mean

I

always wonder I mean this is a this is kind of a dark Inquiry, but when you if you commit such a horrendous act

Back in 77, that was the year I was born.

So that was nearly 49 years ago.

Oh, wow.

Is there any point in your life where you let go and you're like, I'm just living my life?

Or do you always have like a portion of your insights?

It's like, I might get caught today.

I might get caught today.

It might be the day.

You can't live perfectly joyous because that always hangs over your head.

I don't know.

It's a very, well, again, we'll see what happens in the next few months with regard to this case.

I was thinking the same thing.

Like he's 68, it's been,

50 almost 50 years.

Yeah, he's got it at some point.

He had to think I'm in the clear.

Yeah,

you

know Apparently they found a DNA from evidence collected from genome these fingernails

many

years ago So and there could be more of the story.

I mean an 18 year old and a guy in his late 40s.

That's just He just your mind starts to go crazy.

I don't know.

Yeah interesting

It'll be interesting to see the circumstances.

Maybe he says why he did it.

I don't know.

Yeah, exactly.

We'll we'll definitely be finding out more as the months go on.

But that's, you know, right here in our backyard in my backyard, like literally where I live.

So interest very, very interesting story coming out of Kenosha.

Really quick update, eight and a half minutes before Artemis 2 launches its mission to go to the moon.

So we'll, you know, hopefully have more information for you was on hold for a little bit.

But let's get to our third story.

The third

big story.

So this is two stories jammed into one because it's about ridiculous hypocrisy.

And yesterday we discussed the point that a helicopter just flew over kid Rocks house because that's what happens now.

And they were and from what we were told in the story, the the pilots or the the people who are piloting the helicopter itself were suspended, were, you know, gotten trouble.

got to talk into.

And

Pete Hegstedt, don't worry, old P.D.

has got you covered, stepped in and said, don't worry, exonerate, don't worry about it, have a good time.

Because he probably thought that they flew over the real White House, but he doesn't realize that Kid Rock's house looks like the White House, but it also has an East Wing, so I'm not positive.

It's all wonderful stories coming out of Michigan.

And the second story is, Christie Gnomes' husband has got a hobby.

Oh boy.

And if

you

haven't seen already, there were pictures released of Kristi Noem's husband.

His name is Brian Noem.

And he was his pictures of him, you know, allegedly cross-dressing.

And he came out today to make a statement.

And his statement was, I will at some point today is not the day I appreciate your heart.

He said in a brief message to the New York Times.

So he has not said anything.

Kristi Noem has not said anything.

We don't know what's going on.

All we have are the pictures and the blaring hypocrisy.

So eat that up for dinner, folks.

Love it.

It's family

values.

Here's the thing.

I don't like labels.

I don't like the term cross-dressing.

He was dressing.

He happened to be dressing over a couple huge balloons he put under his shirt and warping panties.

But that, you know, whatever.

The guy's got his quirks.

We've all been to fetish websites, right, Tom?

So I

think... Tom put the brakes on that one.

April Fool's.

It's in again.

I don't care what the guy does.

I really don't but it's like you said Greg.

It's the hypocrisy It's the oh the left doesn't have family values and all that nonsense.

They've been spewing for years.

So the drag

Queens Pete the drag

right Exactly.

So and then with Hegseth too.

It's just it's like showing no respect for your

uh the army really because they're the ones let them police themselves these guys went off book or went off course and and did something they shouldn't have okay let them get their repercussions and move on but to make a big scene about how you're stepping in because it's kid rock and that's another

A bit of hypocrisy too, Greg.

They hate celebrities, a lot of them in the White House, but

that's their celebrity, so it's okay.

Exactly, exactly.

It's hard to run a business when the guy who's like the major guy in charge says, don't worry, I've got you covered.

And then there are no rules because they can simply go, I'll just go talk to Uncle Pete.

He'll make it all better because you're just a general.

It doesn't matter from you.

So, I mean- Absolutely.

It's, it's another, it's another story for the pile for all that hypocrisy, but we'll talk more about that in the future.

Pete, what do we have coming up in a

moment?

Welcome back to Nightlight with Pete Schwabba and Greg Bach here on the Civic Media Network.

If you want to be part of the conversation, 855-752-484-2855-75CIVIC.

Leave a comment on the live stream.

We are currently streaming on Facebook, YouTube, and the platform.

We still call Twitter.

Coming up in the second hour, we'll be talking with Sherry Stoka.

She's returning friend of the show.

She's owner and founder of WeightlessMD to talk about GLPs, GLP's ones and twos, as well as just keeping nutritious diet, keeping healthy, especially as the springtime.

approaches, but we talk about that.

And then wrapping everything up with the nightcap.

Plus, if you want to tell us about your, who is the athlete you think has the coolest name, you can text that in via the Civic Media app or just by your phone.

Love to hear from you on that.

We'll talk more about that in the second hour as well.

But let us bring on our first guest.

They are a former senior policy advisor at the treasury and a fellow at the Roosevelt Institute.

Please welcome to the show, Anisha Stephen here to the program.

Good evening, Anisha.

How are you tonight?

Good.

Thank you so much for having me.

Excellent.

Thank you so much for being here.

And we are officially, I mean, this is the time where people are starting to panic.

It is April 1.

They have a few more days left before the tax deadline.

And I'm just going to be super blunt because I want your expertise opinion with all of the stressors that come with this time of year for regular folks trying to file taxes and do all the work.

How has it been made harder by this current administration as far as just like, you know, people

trying to file their taxes and trying to do it correctly so they make sure they don't get in trouble, get the best return as possible.

I mean, it was never easy to begin with, but it feels like it's even harder now.

It's definitely a lot harder this year.

As you said, we are sort of towards the end of filing season.

It started earlier this year.

We are expecting that 164 million Americans will file this year.

But there was a inspector general report that

that came out right before the filing season started that showed just how painfully unprepared the IRS is for everything that's going to be happening over certainly the next few weeks, but also probably for the rest of the year.

Really quick peek if I can follow up.

You know, it's one thing, you know, when I think of being unprepared, I can think of myself being unprepared, waiting till the last minute, getting my paperwork all that stuff.

When you say the IRS is unprepared, what do you mean by that?

Because to me, that makes me even more nervous for my filings not getting received or whatnot.

But how are they not prepared?

So since a year ago, the IRS has downed 30% of its staff.

Those staff are responsible for customer service for filing or receiving and processing returns.

Sort of.

providing advice and guidance to the public without 30% of their staff.

The IRS is severely under resourced.

Specifically in the tax return processing unit, they have only fulfilled 2% of their hiring.

So they're down 98% of the people that they usually bring on for tax return processing.

And they've also just

because of the lack of staff capacity, they don't have folks on the phone to be able to answer the questions of the American people.

The IRS is an agency whose real purpose is to serve the American public, right?

This is the time, tax season, almost every American interacts with the IRS and not being able to fulfill on the promise and sort of the mission of that agency is really, really tough for so many people.

Taxes are really important, not just for the sort of health of our economy and our fiscal apparatus.

But I always say that people in this country often live paycheck to paycheck, but they also actually live refund to refund.

Many people are expecting sort of this one time infusion from the IRS to pay.

outstanding credit card bills or, you know, pay upcoming rent or mortgages.

So having delays or not being able to get someone on the phone, it's going to be pretty hard for a lot of people.

That's really interesting, Anisha.

So given that the IRS might be dysfunctional at the moment, would you advise, you know, a lot of people have money taken out of their paychecks.

Some people set money aside quarterly.

What is the best way to pay?

I mean, it seems like it would be better to put money away quarterly and pay when you're ready to pay as opposed to waiting for that refund if you need it.

Am I wrong about that?

Well, there are all specific to each person's specific circumstances.

I can't give tax advice.

But what I can say is specifically for this filing season, if you have the ability to electronically file, you should.

The IRS has a significant paper backlog right now.

So if you're going to be filing through paper, expect your

return to be delayed and also your refund likely to be delayed.

One of the big things that the IRS did this year and didn't really tell anybody about was that they are no longer issuing paper checks.

So if you are an older person, if you are someone who, one of the millions of Americans who don't have a bank account,

if you

live in a rural community, there are many, many, many Americans who don't have direct deposit information that they can put onto their returns.

and with all of the challenges going on at the IRS.

you really should try to use a tax preparer of some kind who can give you advice around your individual circumstances.

The one thing I would flag about that is the tax prep industry is notoriously scammy.

So if you are going to pay someone to help you file your taxes or answer tax questions for you, please make sure they're a reputable person and that you are getting sort of a good deal for what you are receiving.

I hear a lot about people getting

social media ads for like, if you're a single parent and you need the biggest refund, someone be able to give that to you.

That is usually a scam.

Make sure that you are working with a reputable provider.

And I, you know, a really quick story from a couple of years ago, we went to a provider for ours and she was recommended and she was, she was nice.

And we're used to filing in two separate states because my wife works in Chicago.

And when I said, Oh, you didn't file in Illinois, she just goes, you don't need to do that and winked at me.

And I said,

This isn't good.

So like, it's not even like online scams.

You got to really do your research and we had to go back and amend some things.

It was really odd.

But for folks out there who don't have direct deposit, might not have a bank account or don't have the deep knowledge of how to do those types of things, what are they going to do?

I mean, will that money just sit there waiting for them?

Or are they, are they gonna, what is their pathway to like, all right, you got to open up a bank account now.

I mean, how did they approach

this?

There was a recent congressional hearing where we sort of heard about this for the first time that close to a million Americans have already filed their taxes and not included their bank account information because either they didn't know that they needed to or they don't have a bank account.

The response from the IRS has been to send a letter to those households to say that you can create an online account and include your information that way to update the IRS.

Again, this is going to present a lot of challenges to many of those communities that

don't have consistent internet access, folks who were not able to do online banking to begin with.

I think there will be an option to get a paper check once you go through a number of hoops with the IRS, but it is not easy.

And again, it's sort of an attack on the most under-resourced in our communities to be able to get these refunds without the paper check.

Anisha, in a recent interview, you said that the IRS is sharing our information with ICE.

What's the plan there?

Are they going after undocumented people that way or do they want everybody's information?

You also said recently that you made a mention of like that undocumented immigrants pay over three billion in taxes and they're not documented and they don't get some of the public services.

Why is the IRS sharing our information with ICE?

So thankfully the IRS has been told to hold off on sharing more information with ICE according to a recent lawsuit.

But starting last year there was sort of an unprecedented agreement between Homeland Security and the IRS for information about undocumented people.

I think that the really big sort of

challenging part of this is not just that they are sharing information that, you know, is private and there are strict privacy laws.

It's that we are compelled to pay our taxes, certainly by law, but we have a lot of faith in the IRS that this is a government agency that is apolitical, right?

Like it is a compulsory act that we all go through.

If you think about the IRS, that database of information is the most powerful database in the entire country.

It has all of your

Income information it has your partner's income information who your kids are who pays you how you get paid?

Everything about you is sort of documented at the IRS and for it to be used for something That's not about the pure purposes of tax administration is definitely illegal, but also just reduces the faith in government to deliver What a government is supposed to do to serve the people?

undocumented immigrants do pay a significant amount in

federal, state, and local taxes, I think at the federal level, the most recent number was about $66 billion.

And you're right, they don't get very much in return for paying that.

And again, it goes back to the sort of social contract that we have between people in the government.

We're told and we tell undocumented folks to pay their taxes because it will help them be part of our communities, be part of our society, potential pathways to citizenship.

And then to weaponize that against them, you know, it's pretty devastating for many people.

And there is a...

a recent report from a more conservative think tank that actually said the payments of undocumented immigrants have kept the American economy going for decades, right?

They're a big contributor to not just our overall economy but our fiscal health and our tax contributions.

It's almost like Anisha and I'm not an expert.

They're doing it the right way.

I don't know.

That's just me.

That's what they were always told to do.

But Anisha Stevens is our guest right now.

They are a former senior policy advisor at the U.S.

Treasury as well as a fellow right now at the Roosevelt Institute, talking about tax, tax season and the changes, especially at the IRS.

I mean, a year and a half ago, the IRS was going after major, major cases where people were

either underpaying or not paying their taxes taken in, you know, over a hundred million.

I mean, I don't know the exact number, but like they were on the case to get this money from folks who had been stashing money, not paying, and they had gotten so much money.

And then as soon as this administration came in, that seemed to just stop almost immediately.

Yes.

I mean, I think that's right.

You know, I obviously worked in the previous federal administration, Biden Harris administration, and we spent a lot of time and effort to make sure that the wealthiest and those who are sort of evading their taxes are paying their fair share.

Again, this is our, like our societal contract, people and their government.

Everybody should contribute to the fiscal health of our country.

And

it's unfair that there are many people who choose not to.

And so there was hundreds of billions of dollars that was dedicated to the IRS that was reduced over time, but really to increase capacity to go after enforcement of tax evaders.

And it was quite successful last year.

And the previous years were probably the most successful tax filing seasons that have happened in recent memory, according to the tax.

taxpayer advocate and in one year the Trump administration has taken

all of

that apart.

I think specifically those folks in the offices that have been reduced are those who sort of go after wealthy folks or folks who are not paying their fair share of taxes.

And then there were a lot of this sort of enforcement agents that were also sent to the border to help with Department of Homeland Security.

I just looked it up just to make sure, and according to the US Treasury website itself, it said $1.3 billion in unpaid taxes were collected as of September of 2024.

And they tried to spin the narrative of like, they're going after the truck drivers and the barbers and the waitresses, waiters and waiters, waitresses, when really they were going after, as you said, the folks who are the richest of the rich because they owe their fair share.

So they were doing a good job, but that has all since ended.

We're going to keep the conversation going at the other side of the break with Anisha Stephen here.

They are a former

your policy advisor and at the US Treasury and a fellow at the Roosevelt Institute.

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That's that's the word.

Words are tough.

We are speaking with Anisha Stephen, who is a former senior policy advisor at the US Treasury and a fellow at the Roosevelt Institute.

We are talking about taxes, tax season, the IRS and everything they're in.

And something that, you know, is I think that I want to bring up really quick.

You spoke about earlier was the fact that with these new rules that don't allow for people to get paper checks at least right away, that these new

burdens will fall disproportionately on as with unbanked households essentially that affects a lot of black and brown folks it just has its effects on a lot of people who just I don't want to say targeted but it just seems like this is what always seems to happen when they take away Simplicities and and conveniences it always affects certain groups of individuals in this country And that's what it seems to be doing with with folks who are disproportionately affected by these changes.

Is that is that true?

Am I wrong to assume that?

Yeah, I think that's right.

Again, the millions of Americans that are unbanked are predominantly low income folks and often black and brown folks too, but also rural communities that just don't have a lot of banking infrastructure, formerly incarcerated folks, people who are

experiencing domestic violence, there are often reasons why people sort of need to stay outside of the banking system for various reasons.

But, you know, I worked in the federal government.

There are many ways you can handle a change like this responsibly, and

this

administration just didn't do it, right?

The IRS serves the entire American people.

And in order to do that, you have to take into account that there are some people who, you know, for decades have been getting paper checks and now aren't going to be able to.

There are many options that they could have pursued to make sure that people get the money that they're owed.

But I think probably because of the lack of capacity at the IRS and probably some other political reasons, they decided that they didn't want to actually be responsible.

Anisha.

I might be in the minority here, but I always felt like there were years I had to pay more taxes than others.

I almost kind of felt patriotic.

I loved knowing that it was going to firefighters and librarians and teachers.

Maybe I'm in the minority there.

I don't know how we reframe this to say, and nobody wants to pay more than they should, but they should at least pay their fair share.

Having said that, we got a texture on the text line, Mark from Prairie to Sack, who says, oh, I'm sorry, I lost the text there.

It was actually Andrew from Maine.

He says, speaking of reputable tax assistance, is there a specific certification us normals should look for?

You know, there are so many types of different tax preparation providers, whether you use one of big online services or just a regular accountant.

I think it's better rather than take my advice on specific licenses or whatever to get.

to really like sort of look in your community and see who has done well for other folks too.

Again, you want to make sure that someone is understanding your specific situation.

Tax is very complicated and you want someone to understand the ins and outs of what you're going through and able to answer all of your questions and also be able to talk to the IRS on your behalf if needed.

One of the things that happened over the past year that I think a lot of people are not sort of focused on is

the Republican Congress passed the one big beautiful bill.

So we're also in a new complicated tax law season.

So people for the first time are looking at taxes on overtime, which actually ended up being much more complicated than was promised during the drafting of the bill and so on.

So again, there are...

All Americans should be able to take advantage of all the benefits that the tax system provides to them, but it's very complicated to do alone.

It feels like to me it's going to be a lot like 2017, 2018 where it's like...

It felt like, oh, I'm getting a little bit more.

And then all of a sudden, I'm paying a lot more.

I mean, I have been paying to the federal government for I don't even know how many more years now.

And it just feels like it all came because of from the first term.

And now this seems like it's going to be even worse.

And they're not prepared, as you said, to deal with the bill they passed and the IRS isn't

equipped to handle maybe this year.

Do you, I mean, this is just your personal opinion.

I'm not asking for like any sort of official statement, but do you think because with all this, we might see a say, they might say something effective.

You have until the end of April because it might just be so overwhelming for the IRS itself.

They might even just extend it for Americans because they just, they themselves need the time.

I don't know if they would extend it for Americans.

I just think the processing time and refund times will be longer.

And, you know, it's not easy to deal with the IRS in like a good year, right?

Paying taxes is challenging.

There's always a delay for many Americans.

But I think this year will be, again, unprecedented.

And, you know, I think the bigger question is sort of how long this goes on for.

So this is one.

one tax season where we're seeing all these hiccups and bumps in the road.

It's very hard to recruit people to the IRS now after all of the attacks on federal workers that went on over the last year.

I think it's going to be, again, this is just the first year of this tax season being bumpy, and we're likely going to experience it in the future as well.

I don't know if we can squeeze in a very fast call here for Anisha, but Mark from Prairie to Sack is on the line.

Can we take that quickly, Dom?

Very

quickly.

He's got like, you guys say what you need to say,

Mark, in like 20 seconds.

You got 20 seconds, then we need a quick answer from Anisha.

Go ahead, Mark.

It really pays to have extra employees working for any Department of Revenue I know in the state of Wisconsin.

It brings in a lot of dollars having those extra employees working actually policing those returns that they need to police.

And it would have been easier just to write for the tax code just to boost up the exemption up to like like the patriotic millionaires doing up to 45 $50,000 and leave it there that income is exempt and Then everybody get the same tax cut and the rich had to pay their rather than all these complicated rules on overtime and tips

Okay, thank you so much for I

It was a statement.

It was a thought.

That's all you wanted to share.

There you go.

Thank you so

much, Mark,

for calling.

We appreciate you.

And Anisha, Stephen, thank you so much for being here this evening.

Anisha is

a former, of course, of course, please come back.

Make this all make sense to us.

They are a former senior policy advisor at the US Treasury and a fellow at the Roosevelt Institute.

Thank you so much again for being our guest.

Have a wonderful, wonderful night.

Thanks, Anisha.

When we come back, we'll be talking about the question of the night here on Nightlight with Pete Schwabba and Greg Bach on the Civic Media Network.

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