Rebecca Petrowsky on Death Cafes & Deathwalker Doula Services (Hour 1)

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From Washington to Hollywood and right back to Wisconsin.

It's Night Light with Pete Schwabba and Greg Bach.

Connecting the dots on the stories shaping our world with smart takes, sharp humor, and plenty of personality.

You know, I really expected more professional behavior from you.

It's news and culture without the noise.

Yeah, I'm on.

Here's Pete Schwabba.

Dude.

And Greg Bach.

Dude.

Welcome to Night Light, ladies and gentlemen.

Happy Monday, everybody.

Oh man, do we have a show tonight?

Greg, we have a show tonight, don't we?

We

definitely, on the scale of do we have a show and don't we have a show, definitely have a show.

So.

51-49 right here.

I would know 100% have a show.

No.

We already do.

It's

already started.

There's no turning back at this point.

Oh my gosh.

Oh my gosh, we totally have a show right now.

We

got a show.

Welcome to Nightlight folks.

Dom Lee, Dom Lee as he is affectionately called is working the board in Madison producing the show and tearing it up.

So we got a great show.

This is going to be a lot of fun.

It's, it's here.

Once again, guys, I just want to point out that you are both sitting in like, what, 70 degree temperature?

Oh,

not no, no, no, that's not, no, no, no, 67.

Like mid 40s here in the

city, USA.

It's just not fair.

Chicago was like 75 I think Madison was like 73 Dom

It is it's about like things 72 73 around there.

So it's

I'm not blaming you I don't

have to live not

mad not mad exactly We we do have a great show tonight though, Greg.

Yes, we're here's here's what I love about how we've put this show together in the first hour

We have Rebecca Petrowski who will be here.

She is the founder of Death Walker Dula's LLC.

She's a great guest.

We spoke with her a little earlier.

She's gonna be here.

It's gonna be some death talk, you know, and how people in her company assist people into the afterlife.

It's, it was, it should be a really good conversation.

And then we pick it up with a little kind of some lighthearted Wisconsin talk.

And hour number two with Paul Vandenplatz from Wonderfully Wisconsin, a regular here on Nightlight.

Should be fun.

It's gonna be an all-around great show.

I can already feel it.

I can already yes, I love because I believe in us

Well, yeah, I do too.

I just don't you think Greg was teaming with enthusiasm there.

I believe in you guys for the most part.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah

Wait a minute.

I'm sorry, but like I'm like feeling good and positive right now for the show and for us in general And what do you like you're coming at me with this this like I don't know man sounds pretty sarcastic to me.

Well, listen, you're a terrible Dennis Miller impression Sounds pretty sarcastic

Okay, babe What they happen to Dennis he was great who cares

No, I know me what happened like but I mean in terms of comedy He got very political because when he started out he was just a sarcastic

funny

good joke, right?

Yeah, yeah, and then it became like

and he did money night football remember that he just

And there was a time in the 90s where they thought he was a leading man.

He was in the net and Bordello like he was a starred in these movies and

Wow,

and then now he's just who he is and it's just it's sort of it's it's borderline unbearable listening to him speak because you're like I don't even I don't even think you know what you're talking about, bro Seriously, just tamp it down.

You're fine.

You're fine and you kind of have to

look for him if you do want to hear him speak I don't ever see him around anymore

I

just, I'm sure he's

still out there.

He tours.

I had a friend of mine who opened for him once and he said that Dennis Miller pulled up to the venue in a car like 10 minutes before he went on stage, did his set and left.

Oh man.

That sounds

like, that's on point

for him.

It is.

That's what I've heard too.

I mean, I totally, yeah.

I don't understand that, but okay, whatever.

I mean, at least get to know, like, hey, you're opening for me, good to meet you.

My name is Dennis.

Here are some things you can say, blah, blah, blah, but no, it's just like, I have no time for anyone.

I'm gonna do my set and say a bunch of long, multi-syllabic words that people are gonna be like, I have to look that one up later.

Like he did, yeah.

Exactly, so.

But yeah, you know, Mr. Miller, you've gotten more play on the media right now than you have in a long time.

You're welcome.

We won't charge you.

There

you go.

We're done with it.

I had a great weekend, guys.

My son came home, surprised

me.

Why?

Why?

Why did he come home?

Why did he come home, Pete?

Why did he come home, Pete?

It was my

birthday.

Oh, it was totally your birthday.

And I can say

that now, a retroactive because, you know, it's OK.

It was fun, though.

It was a very low-key birthday.

Not a huge thing.

But we had a great time hanging out.

I know, Greg, you watched some baseball, I assume.

Mm-hmm.

Yes,

I did.

Oh, it was fantastic.

Now I'm letting you go after Dom.

3 and 3 and 3 and 0, my friends.

We are 3 and 0, the Brewers are.

And we are undefeated amongst some of the greatest teams ever, including

teams I don't care about.

But the point is the Brewers are three and oh, and Dom, you guys almost pulled out a victory yesterday.

You, you get, you came squeakingly close.

Key

word,

right?

Key word almost.

Mr. Yelich comes to the, I mean, they have turned, they have turned that home run, that three run home run in the eighth inning, bottom of the eighth, two on Yelich at home, crack of the bat.

right center field.

They've turned

it into like movie cinema quality film now.

Like there, it is borderline hilarious.

You're like, okay, wow, you guys, you really busted out the big budget for this, for these videos here.

But yeah, it was very interesting.

I was, you know, I said it on Thursday when opening day was 14 to two victory.

Anytime the brewers win that big, my heart's like, all right, what's the punishment?

It's a Faustian deal at best when it comes to the Brewers.

So when we win that hard and that big and it's like, yeah.

You're like, okay, what are we gonna, like, are we gonna lose to a little league team tomorrow now?

Is that what's gonna happen?

So I'm really happy.

I'm just torn.

I'm happy for you, Greg.

I'm kind of bummed because you're three and oh domzo and three.

But before we get to the question tonight, Don, I know you had a big weekend, too, and it came to you in the way of a hamburger, your second

set installment.

We keep talking about this on air, but it's, yes, the big arch burger.

I had a second big arch burger.

And let me just say, let me just say.

The second big arch.

But let me just say, it was the second time I had it.

I had it at a different McDonald's.

I didn't have it in Madison.

I had it in West Bend.

And the second big arch burger that I've had lived up to the hype a second time.

It was

what time did you have it?

I had I had it

midday so around like one o'clock.

I'd say

okay.

Yeah, yeah, and they

weren't out of it

time to recover.

Yeah, right.

Yeah, I didn't I didn't stay up late with a stomach issue.

Everything was good.

I didn't even have any stomach problem this time.

I would say the sequel for the big arch was better than the first time.

It's the Paddington two of burgers.

Oh my goodness.

I was not expecting that were you Greg?

I thought you were gonna come on here tonight and say okay I jumped the shark with my first big arch burger this one was not but you're saying just the opposite.

Okay.

Yep.

So we just need one more big arch.

Yep.

I need a third I need a first science but to make this scientific We need one more big arch.

All right in the yonder hey triangle So I think you should come up to Marinette Christmas City get yourself a big arch burger then we can have a true

Breakdown, okay, perfect.

Wait like a breakdown isn't like examining or you just are crying because you've eaten three big arches His body starts breaking down here's the thing is here's the other thing too is like that this shant be that no no no Pete That's not the thing is is that if he comes up to Christmasville, America He you have to eat as many big arches.

He's already had you have to catch up.

That's how it works You can't just have a big arch if he's on his third you must have two

And get ready for his thirds.

That's just

one sitting too.

Yep.

That's science.

Listen, that's not the trip.

You make the trip up here, we'll talk, Dom.

Okay,

we'll work out the particular deal.

But Greg, just in volunteer, I can't say no to Greg.

Hey, we got some news stories to get to, but first let's do our question of the night, ladies and gentlemen.

Let's talk about the question.

Okay, question.

Question.

Question.

Question.

Question.

Okay, I have a question.

Questions.

This question.

Question.

Question.

Questions.

Alex, let's continue with foods that make you sick.

Our question of the night is, what is the most scarfable cereal?

What

can

you just mouth?

Like, you can't eat one bowl.

And one of you guys mentioned this in the last week, and that's where this question came from.

What is your most scarfable cereal?

Let us know at 855-752-4842, 855-75 Civic.

You can also text us on the app.

Or if you're watching the show on the stream on Facebook, YouTube, or ex Twitter, drop us a stream comment and let us know what cereal you love to scarf.

That's a good one.

I can't wait to talk about that.

Honestly, I already wish it was our number two.

Soon, friend.

We'll get there.

Before we get to that, though, it's time to get to our big stories.

It is the first big story.

So in celebration of Pete Schwab's birthday, 8 million people turned out for the No Kings rally this past weekend.

In 50 states, 3,300 events took place.

Let me repeat that.

3,300 events took place across 50 states last Saturday to protest in the No Kings march on 100 of them.

right here in Wisconsin with, and I feel like they gave you a present they need to tell you, Pete.

Bruce Springsteen performed the streets of Minneapolis at the big event on Saturday in Minneapolis for a crowd of at least 100,000.

That quote, federal troops brought death and terror to the streets of Minneapolis.

They picked the wrong city, Governor Tim Walz and Senator Bernie Sanders, and wow.

Bernie Sanders, Jane Fonda, Joan Baez, Tim Wall is all there.

I mean, it sounds like I never, I don't want to make it sound like it was a party, but it's always when, you know, we had some in Kenosha, they're there for a solemn reason.

They're there to march against what's happening in Washington.

And I love what they're doing there.

And so far, you know, from the, from the general estimates of three rallies, it's about 20 million people that have protested over three rallies.

And

But on top of that though, I love the fun you see, the costumes, the signs, the attitude, the joy, all of those things coming together to let, you know, it's like, it's like this, this.

Anger and rage they feel this frustration, but also with the biggest souls and hearts you can imagine coming together Marching together and that's what I saw when I was you know, I saw the rallies in Kenosha.

I saw some in Racine I don't know if you guys saw any in your areas, but like a hundred plus events here in Wisconsin on top of the 3300 that were happening across the country that to me is mind-blowing 3300 is

mind-blowing a hundred in Wisconsin is mind-blowing.

I mean

There was one here in Christmas City, I did not attend, but we had people lined up on the bridge from Marinette to Menominee and people honking.

I would say, based on what I've heard, Greg, is that the support has picked up.

There's more honking and more than one.

I saw one great sign.

If you agree with us, flip us the bird or

something.

If you voted for a pedophile, flip us off.

I'm like, oh boy.

Oh boy.

Trying to squash that.

I think there's a fantastic picture from New York City where it's just like Times Square is just packed to the rafters.

But there is a picture that someone took in Los Angeles of a cop with a woman dressed as Lady Liberty handcuffed walking her down the street and everyone's like, this is the most American picture there is.

Period there was one outburst apparently a counter protester was arrested in Dallas for wait for it Punching a 71 year old in the face Wow Yeah A counter protester was arrested for punching a 71 year old man during Saturday's no Kings rally demonstration in Dallas according to an arrest affidavit

obtained by the WFAA, which is where I got the story from.

His name is Chad Rogers.

He's a 57 year old and he's been charged with assault against the elderly or disabled individual, a class A misdemeanor.

He was allegedly with a group of counter protesters pushing people apart, participating in the no Kings rally.

And according to the arrest affidavit, the 71 year old told the police he saw Mr Rogers.

Okay.

Rogers, pushing people in a proportion saying, little man, what the bleep are you doing?

So yeah, I mean, honestly, the only thing I've ever heard with these protests are counter protesters acting up.

And by the way, President Trump said nothing about this protest at all.

And one of his spokesperson said it was Trump derangement therapy sessions.

Well, okay, if you say so.

That's

kind of their go to, but he also was armed, as I understand it.

And what do you know, no one shot him.

So there you go.

All right.

We are coming back, folks.

We've got a couple more big news stories to get to, and then we are going to be talking death doulas after the news.

It's fascinating.

You're not going to want

to miss this.

This is Nightlight with Pete Schwabba and Greg Bach on the Civic Media Network.

Well, that's very sweet.

I'm gonna get a lump in my throat now and I don't need to have that, but thank you very much.

Go see a doctor.

Yeah, well, in my, yeah, that would, all right.

Welcome back to Nightlight, folks.

I'm Pete Chihuahua, sitting downstate for me is Greg Bach, birthday wischer of all, and he's joined by, you know, the other part of our triangle here, our Yatterhey Triangle.

Mr. Dom Lee, who has had way too many big arch burgers.

I will not let that.

That's what you're going to know.

We

have our question of the night, folks, is what is the most scarfable cereal?

I since I was like eight, I've always had trouble eating one bowl of cereal.

And even if I have a bowl now, I'm having multiple bowls, unless it's like mueslicks or something like that.

But

what is your

favorite?

What is your favorite?

Scarfable cereal, that is tonight's question.

Be part of the show and we will read your text on the radio.

How fun will that be?

Greg Bach, Peachwaba.

Greg, our second, oh Dom, I should defer to you here.

What is our second story?

What do we do now?

The second big story.

All right, I got a little confused there because it was my birthday the other day.

Guy had the birthday, turns 25 and all of a sudden he just can't think straight.

I'm being very needy here.

President Trump's approval rating, according to the University of Massachusetts Amherst poll, is now at 33%.

That is the lowest it's ever been for the president, or Donald Trump, I think, even before he was president, if that was a thing.

Looked at all different kinds of barometers here the economy the tariffs the war It's not looking good in terms of approval rate people are against the war.

It's unpopular.

They were against the tariffs But there are still people Greg I see this on social media all the time.

They you know, there's there's DTS is what their comeback is Trump's Arrangement Syndrome DTS Trump.

What is it?

TDS and you know, I want to say

You know, you don't have to agree with him on everything.

I remember when Bill Clinton was president and the Monica Lewinsky I soured on him and then he did other things and I'm like, okay, I'm done, you know, but like This is different.

This is like we are with him no matter what and those are the 33% So there you

go.

I you know, I just I Look at it from the point of view is there's gonna always be people who are gonna be on board regardless They're gonna be like, yep, he's the best ever and personally I've

you know, when they're like, it's Trump derangement syndrome.

I feel like that's not what you should be saying about the people who don't like him.

It sounds like what you'd be saying about the 33% who do it like him.

I don't understand where you're coming from.

There's no real, there's no real science behind if you ask me, but like, if there's 33%, that's not surprising that one, it's so low and that two, there's still 33% who still like him, but

We are in an election year, hopefully.

And this is the time we need to keep, you know, we got an election coming up in a week, a week from tomorrow.

We have a spring election here in Wisconsin.

Then we got our fall election.

So it's, this is the time to really, and eight million people marching through the streets of America, I think is a telling, very telling statement on what we're talking about right now with regard to these polling numbers.

And it's kind of like, what's the

tipping point?

I thought it would be, for some people, maybe terrorists, then I thought, well, Epstein, here we go.

Still defending him.

Now

there's a war.

We're going to send true, like,

what does he have to do?

You know what?

I saw a video yesterday.

that had a guy wearing a mega hat.

And at first you thought, okay, what's going on here?

And at the end of it, he takes the mega hat off and burns it.

And he's saying that he, you know, he was a ride or die.

He voted for him a bunch of times, all that stuff.

And he said, I didn't want to have to admit that I was wrong.

And that right there for me was the sentence.

It's because people are so desperately afraid of saying I was wrong.

That's a hard thing for people, especially I think Americans to say, I was wrong.

And you see this day by day, more and more people who are being affected by the terrorist, by the war, by the oil prices, by everything, who are finally just saying, my family and my life is more important than adoration for this thing.

And when I say thing, I don't mean him as a person thing.

I mean like the branding of Trump.

Right.

And so when someone says, I didn't think I'd have to admit I was wrong, I think that to me speaks volumes to this entire movement.

I think you're absolutely right.

To me, the war was a game changer.

I mean, I feel like that, well Epstein was too, but until

they come

out and say, you know, I know there's all these redactions, but like the war is something he campaigned on and all that kind of stuff that he wouldn't start a new war.

So yeah, it's puzzling.

We'll see if it can go any lower.

I don't know, but he's got 24% on inflation, 71% against.

and jobs 37%, 55%.

I mean, it's all right there.

So yeah, it'll be interesting.

Our Dom, if you please, the third big story.

Oh man, you thought the state of the world was important.

The NCAA Tournament Final Four has been set, ladies and gentlemen.

Oh, thank God.

Thanks, excited.

The women are still in the elite eight, but the men's Final Four has been

You know, the game will be, or the tournament continues next weekend in Indianapolis.

You've got Michigan, the number one overall seed, UConn, oh, Arizona, Arizona is the other number one seed.

UConn, a two seed, and the Illini of Illinois, a three seed.

Here's what bothers me about this, you guys.

And I like Illinois, grew up kind of cheering for them.

But I made the move to Badger Fan in the early 90s when my brother went to school in Madison, and I started doing stand-up in Madison.

It became one of my favorite cities anywhere.

And I became a huge Badger fan.

The Badgers beat the Illini and they beat Michigan and they lost to Murray Hill State, Christmas City, USA, whatever it is.

I mean, it's very, it's very troubling, but the final four is set.

It should be good.

Is where the, I saw that the Wisconsin women's loss today, was that in the tournament?

I'm so sorry.

I do not know anything when it comes to basketball in college.

I do not know.

I'm not in any pools or brackets when it comes to the women.

I barely, I had to get my guys bracket in last minute.

So I don't know.

I don't even really know as much about the men's.

I watched about four or five games over the last two weeks and they were very exciting.

UConn won last night on a last second buzzer beater when they had been down all game against Duke.

I'm thrilled to see Duke out of this thing.

So that's a good thing.

It doesn't look like they were given in it.

So nevermind.

Okay.

Forget it.

That's just trying to learn stuff here, folks, about college basketball.

What do we got coming up next, Pete?

You're an optimist.

They didn't lose.

I like that.

We've got Rebecca Petrovsky coming up next.

She's going to talk to us about the work she does helping people pass into the afterlife.

You don't want to miss this, folks.

Yes.

This is Paul Vanaplaz from Wonderfully Wisconsin here.

And hour number two, our question of the night is, what is the most scarfable cereal?

This is Peach Waba and Greg Bach on Nightlight.

I'm the city media network.

Welcome back.

This is Nightlight with Pete Chihuahua and Greg Bach coming to you via the Civic Media Network.

Great to have you with us on this Monday night, folks.

Hope you're having a great day and wherever you're joining us from, it is a pleasure to all be together here on this Monday talking about current events and entertainment and turning our attention, Mr. Greg Bach.

Our next guest fascinates me.

What she does fascinates me.

She is a trained end of life doula and founder of Death Walker doula services LLC.

She joins us now over the stream Rebecca Petrowski.

Hi Rebecca.

Hi there.

How are you?

Well, I'm doing well.

It's great to meet you and I'm absolutely fascinated by what you do.

Why don't you tell us

I mean, other than what I've read, I wasn't even familiar with this as a vocation or profession or anything.

So tell people about your company and what it is exactly that you do as people near the end of their lives.

Sure.

So as a deaf doula, doulas provide non-medical support.

So specifically, we provide non-medical support near the end of life.

We help people with planning for the end of their lives, people who are listening through the end of their life, and even I even help people

after they've lost a loved one.

I have mourning and grief loss support.

Every duel is a little different in what they do, but I offer a pretty wide range of services in order to help support people.

So I always say, people always ask me, when should I call you?

And I say, literally anytime.

There's no wrong time to call me.

So just to follow up with that briefly.

What is the work like?

You say you do that and I get that, but what does that mean?

Sitting with them, checking in every day, spending the night.

What typically does your job entail on a day-to-day basis if you're helping someone pass?

Sure, so it does depend on the type of support the client wants and how much support they want.

I can come in every day for several hours every day if that's what they want.

Some of them only want me to stop and support like once a week.

Now, if you're talking about sitting with them, you might be talking about like vigil support as they're actively dying, and I do offer that as well.

And that would be sitting with them so the family can rest so that the person isn't sitting alone while they pass.

But I also offer things like Swedish cleaning, which is helping families clean out their belongings before their loved one passes, but it helps lessen some of that burden on the family afterwards.

And a big part of what I do right now is community education because that a lot of people Are willing to even talk about that or willing to you know Work on their death.

I see it's a real struggle for a lot of people And so because people don't know I am I am in the community a lot right now

What brought you to this path to this line of work because I've always heard the term doula in his in with regard to

Childbirth, I've never heard of it in this form, but what brought you to this?

I don't even want to call it an occupation.

This feels more like it's like a calling because to do such solemn work, you really have to be willing to have those hard conversations and be in tough spots with people you might not know so well.

So what brought you to this place?

You know, I saw a big gap, especially for people within the queer or the non-religious community.

you know, most religions have quite a bit of support for big life transitions, you know, a birth, marriage, and for death, you know, you can easily call a priest for your last rights, right?

But for people who don't have that or who aren't a major of that, they can really struggle through the end of their life because they just simply don't have the support they're looking for.

But I'm trying to fill some of that need.

Rebecca, it says on your website that a death doula's work complements that of the medical.

or medical people or doctors, nurses, hospice workers, whatever, at the end of someone's life.

Where does their job stop and yours begin?

And is it like a collaborative effort willingly or do you kind of just work around each other?

So it does depend a bit on the hospice.

Some know what we do and are happy to have us there.

Some may not quite know what we do.

But typically the way that that works is with hospice, you have people who come in for shorter periods of time, you know, once a day.

It's not like a few times a week, right?

Whereas I can be there for several hours if the person wants me there, if my client wants me there for several hours and I can come every day if they would like.

I can also help my client advocate.

you know, if there's something that they're unhappy with or something that they're concerned about but don't know how to talk to the hospice nurse or their CNAs or any of the aides, I can help them talk to their doctor if they're like, hey, you know, I'm not sure about this medication or, you know, I've been in a lot of pain and this just isn't doing it for me.

I can help them make sure that they're advocating for themselves effectively.

And all of this is part of a bigger movement to

normalize the discussion of death and preparation for death.

Well, it's really about, you know, when someone is getting ready to die and then the process and then also the grieving afterwards, it's something that we, I don't know about other countries, but America, we just don't do really well.

And I feel like that what you're doing here is part of a major movement to really familiarize and normalize the idea of death.

And more importantly, having those important conversations, I imagine that's

a very big part of your occupation with these patients and families.

Yes, absolutely.

Greg, um, you know, death literacy is a struggle.

And the, the movement that you're talking about is typically called the death positivity movement.

And that started around 10, maybe 15 years ago or so, where people really started looking at, you know, how are we talking about death and why aren't we?

And how are we talking to each other about the end of life choices and after?

Are we leaving choices that are going to be very hard for the people that we're leaving behind?

And what choices can we make and what things can we talk about to make that easier pre-death?

Our guest is Rebecca Petrowski.

She is the founder of Death Walker Dula Services, LLC, and a trained end of life Dula.

Rebecca, you say you specialize in supporting those who are queer, agnostic, atheist, or pagan.

Is there a lot of work that goes into how you approach each patient, research, anything like that when it comes to working with them and their beliefs?

Right.

So I usually follow my clients' lead with that because they know their beliefs far better than I ever will, right?

So if they have specific rituals that they want to be doing or specific

things that they want to make sure that they're achieving, I'm going to make sure that that's happening to the best of my abilities anyways.

But I'm also very aware of especially like within like the trans community that they're often either dead named or not respected by family who doesn't believe in their life choices, right?

And so

I'm there to

help make sure that they're getting the kinds of care that they are wanting, you know, and the kind of support that they should be getting just like everybody

else.

Well said.

Do you find that religious people reach out to you too as well?

Because as someone who was raised religious went through a major death in my family while religion was there for the funeral and was there for certain things that it didn't.

It didn't bring a great deal of understanding and comfort.

Do you find that folks who maybe come from a religious background want someone who can come in and have the frank conversations and really kind of open up the points of discussion on this?

Or is your client tell, I don't want to say a specific lane, but do you see all sorts of folks reaching out to you?

Absolutely.

I would say like the one thing that I've really been seeing is people are just

starving for these conversations.

They so badly want to have these conversations.

They just don't know how.

And so having somebody who is, you know, a neutral third party who can be like, Hey, let's talk about this.

Here's where we can start.

And here are some important points we should make sure we're covering that really takes a big load and pressure off the person to initiate that conversation.

And so yeah, I see people of all backgrounds religious.

Great.

I would imagine at times that you can't help but to develop a connection with a patient or someone who's about to die.

How do you take your mind off your work and how do you, do you ever stay in touch with family or develop friendships?

Yeah, so I mean, the work I do is deeply personal and there are some clients who definitely become friends and the loss of them can be very hard.

Um, because this is, you know, the nature of my work.

Um, but I do make sure I keep in touch with the families after, you know, as long as they're comfortable with that, make sure I'm checking in on how they're doing and let them know that I'm always here as a resource.

You know, just because you're a loved one has died doesn't mean our relationship has to stop either.

Um, as for like how I handle it, I have, you know, lots of animals at home.

I have a very loving husband, um, who is.

really my rock and he is a really great support.

With your work, is this something you see all across the country?

Do you have a network of doulas that you talk to and you've trained for it?

But as we said before, the idea is something new, I feel like, at least to me.

Is there a growing network of these individuals doing the work you do across the country?

Yeah, so I mean, death doulows as a current profession have only been around for 20-ish years or so.

But yeah, there is definitely a big growth in them.

You see a lot of them, especially on the like the east and west coast, California, New York.

Here, there's not quite as many.

Usually the Midwest is a little bit behind everywhere else to catch up to the,

you

know, the

the newfangled ideas, right?

But I do actually have a few death doulas in the area that I chat with regularly and we share resources and we make sure that we're supporting each other.

That's great.

Yeah.

How much training did you have to go through to do this?

To where A, you felt confident doing it and B, those who trained you feel like, is it different for everyone?

How much actual training do you need and how long does it take?

Sure.

So there's no national regulation.

You know, like if you go to be a midwife, there's a national certification board, right, who is making sure that you know XYZ and that everybody knows XYZ as a baseline, right?

Whereas with death doulas and birth doulas, that is not the case.

There's no governing body.

So I've taken a couple of different online courses.

One took me about six weeks.

The other one took me only a couple because I was able to just

work on it for about eight hours a day, you know?

I was able to bust it because I had the time.

I'm constantly reading, I'm constantly attending webinars and seminars, and I'm constantly learning because continuous education is a huge part of what I do.

I want to make sure I'm learning everything that I can, you know?

And so I've not required to be certified.

I'm not required to have any sort of training.

Nobody is.

But I did that so that clients could feel more comfortable with me and more comfortable with my abilities.

We have to take a little break in a moment, but I want to ask a question really quick for when we come back, you can give your answer.

You mentioned, you just mentioned that this is a, this is a occupation that you've seen in, in, you know,

West Coast and East Coast and Midwest can be a little bit behind the time, but I think also a thing in the Midwest is maybe this Having these conversations opening up, you know Once something I want you to think about one before we go to break is just having those I would say pure those Midwestern tinge conversations where you're trying to open people up to understand that this is a good discussion to have

how you approach that without of course giving away information you don't, but like just how you approach maybe a Midwestern conversation about death while doing your work.

And we'll come to that, we'll come back to that when we come back from break.

We are talking to Rebecca Petrowski who is the, she is the owner of Death Walker doula services is here on the show tonight as our guest here on nightlight with.

Pete, Chwaba, and Greg Bach.

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Welcome back to Nightlight with Pete Schwabba and Greg Bach here on the Civic Media Network.

Thank you so much for being here tonight.

We are talking to Rebecca Petrowski of Deathwalker Dula Services and the work she does helping folks, family and those who are on their way towards their next journey.

Deal with all of the steps indeed and we've been talking to Rebecca about

her work, what goes into her job.

And before we went to the break, I asked about the conversations in the Midwest about death and how they might be a little bit more difficult than say on the East Coast, West Coast, that's an assumption.

I apologize to those who might, you know, think that it's, it's, it's not easy, but I feel like in the Midwest, we are folks who tend to keep our thoughts to ourself and our feelings to ourselves.

Rebecca, is that something you feel like you have to crack through is that Midwestern shell of like, I keep it to myself.

Don't, I don't want to bother anyone with my thoughts and feelings on this.

Honestly, I think it really depends on the age and the generation of the person.

I've typically noticed that the older the generation, the less keen they are to talk about these kinds of things and about their emotions.

The younger the generation, the more apt they are to talk.

Typically, I have a large variety of people who come to things like my death cafes.

And I've had people as young as eight there, and I've had people as old as

I think 80.

I don't typically ask because you never ask a woman her age, right?

And people who usually come to those are pretty willing to talk.

But in general, I have noticed older people, you know, 65 and above are typically pretty reluctant to chat about it.

So it's really just about trying to make them as comfortable as possible and get a baseline of what have you already talked about or are we starting at zero?

Gotcha.

Rebecca, you have this

these events coming up, feel free, please, to tell us.

I know you have one in Sheboygan coming up in Green Bay.

I'm curious to know how those go.

You kind of just gave us a little sample, but also, you're so compassionate and gentle, it seems, in your approach to helping people pass.

But the term death doula, and you say we have these death meetings at cafes, do people ever, do you think they're scared away by the harshness of death?

It almost seems to sort of,

be in conflict with what you actually do, if that makes sense.

Sure.

So I chose Death Dula and Death Walker because I wanted it to be very clear what I'm doing.

You know, I'm not shying away from it because it's what I do.

And, you know, because we were talking about, you know, the lack of death literacy, especially in this country, people are so reticent to talk about death.

But I'm like, we need to put it front and center because if we don't, nobody's going to talk about it.

Um, and, and honestly, it does catch people's attention at least, you know?

I get a lot of weird looks and a lot of, what is that?

Um, but it catches people's attention.

That's for sure.

And people, like I said earlier, are so hungry for these conversations.

They're so starved for them, but nobody wants to talk about it.

Nobody wants to start the conversation.

That's where the real struggle is getting it started.

So what takes place at a death cafe?

Like Padas, is it just a group of people coming in ready to do it or do you have folks who are timid and saying, but you know, what goes on at a death cafe?

Sure.

So a death cafe is an open group that is participant led.

So that means I don't show up with an agenda.

I don't show up with questions and I don't show up with a how this is supposed to go.

I let people know like what a death cafe is and they never forced anybody to

to engage, but usually people who are there want to, right?

I have had it where people are very quiet the whole time and are just watching and listening, but I've also had it where people are very animated and want to talk.

And honestly, no two are alike.

They're always different.

So I never really even know what to expect.

I've had some really amazing conversations at these deaf cafes.

We have about a minute or a minute and a half left, Rebecca.

If you don't mind, can you tell us, I'm sure this is not a new thing, but it was kind of new to me when I was looking at your website, the living funeral.

I love that

idea.

And also you touched earlier on Swedish cleaning.

Can you elaborate on both of those, please?

Sure.

So Swedish death cleaning really became popular with, my name is Margarita Magnus and she wrote the Gentle Art of Swedish Death Cleaning.

It's a teeny tiny little book.

I highly recommend you read it.

And it goes, it's kind of like, you know, Marie Kondo and her does this spark joy.

It's kind of like that.

But with the end of life and mind, you know, if you are aging and you're looking at downsizing or you're looking at reducing the amount of things that you have that your loved ones will have to go through, you're looking at like

Do I still really need this?

Do I need a lawnmower?

I may be three in my out pushing that lawnmower.

No, but

my new neighbors who are newlyweds might need that lawnmower.

So I'm going to sell it to them or give it to them, whatever that may be.

So it's basically just reducing the burden on yourself as you age and reducing the burden on your loved ones for after you pass.

You're basically Marie Kondoing your entire life, right?

That's something I think about all the time.

So maybe you should start looking at that.

Yeah,

absolutely.

I don't want to think about it.

But

this way too, you get to decide what everything goes.

You know, do you have, you guys seem like you're into movies and music from what I can see in the background?

You know, do you have things like records that are really, really important to you that you want to make sure they go to a good home where they're going to be appreciated?

Or do you not care if your, you know, grandchild chucks it in the dumpster?

You know, that's up to you, right?

But you're the only one who gets to determine where that goes.

I know we're getting a little short on time, so I'll do the living funeral real quick if I may.

So that is just a chance for you to have that living funeral and to get to say goodbye to everybody that you love and get to leave nothing unsaid.

You know how funerals are always like, oh, I wish I had said this or I wish I had said that.

This is that time.

It's dedicated for that.

I love the idea.

Rebecca, thank you so much for your time today.

Continued success.

It's very admirable what you do, and I'm sure it's difficult, but we really appreciate you in helping us have that discussion here in the Midwest because it probably needs to be had by a lot of people.

So thank you for your time and continued success.

Absolutely, and thank you for having me.

You're very welcome.

That is Rebecca Petrowski.

She is a trained end of life doula and the founder of Death Walker doula services.

They have events coming up around the state.

If you want to check out her websites, one in Sheboygan and one in Green Bay.

We are coming right back after the news to read your texts.

This is Pete Schwabba and Greg Bach and Nightlight on the Civic Media Network.

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