Shows›Nite Lite with Pete Schwaba and Greg Bach›Robert J on Music, Community & MAMA Cares (Hour 1)›Transcript

Transcript

Robert J on Music, Community & MAMA Cares (Hour 1)

Nite Lite with Pete Schwaba and Greg Bach · Mon Mar 23, 2026

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From Washington to Hollywood and right back to Wisconsin.

It's Night Light with Pete Schwabba and Greg Bach.

Connecting the dots on the stories shaping our world with smart takes, sharp humor, and plenty of personality.

You know, I really expected more professional behavior from you.

It's news and culture without the noise.

Yeah, I'm on!

Here's Pete Schwabba.

Dude.

And Greg Bach.

Dude!

Hey, hey, welcome to Night Light, ladies and gentlemen.

It is f-

Finally, Monday, we get to be back in the air talking about things that are important to you, important to all of us and some fun stuff too, like movies and all kinds of fun stuff, a really cool film festival event happening this weekend, a great benefit.

I am Pete Schwabba, by the way, I should probably clarify that.

And sitting across the state from me on this fine Monday is Mr. Greg Bach.

Hey, buddy.

Hello, I'm back in Wisconsin and I know everyone missed me.

We did, um, was... How was everything?

Like, did you get off the plane and kiss the ground immediately, or was it smooth traveling?

How did that go?

I mean, honestly, it was when it came to my experience at the airport, and everything was great.

Like, there was, you know, I walked in, I didn't have any bags to check.

For those who don't know, I went to Arizona this past weekend to visit my mom and her, her, um, man friend, guy friend, companion partner, how, uh, the, but they both there in Arizona for, uh, for four months out of the year.

So we were having a good time there and, uh, went to visit them, which was really a lot of fun.

It was very, very hot.

Very, very hot.

It was like 105.

That was like the highest temperature at some points, but it was very, very warm.

We did have a blast.

We went to go see some spring training.

We've got to see the Brewers take on and beat the Texas Rangers on Thursday night, which was a lot of fun.

Then went to the musical instrument museum, which was really, really cool.

And just when I kind of saw the area, Arizona, absolutely gorgeous, made me want a golf, which was very weird, but.

Uh,

the

airport experience was simple.

It was, you know, no check baggage.

So I walked in, went upstairs to, we were at midway and went through a TSA pre-check.

There was no line whatsoever.

Like, well, there was like two people in front of me, but nothing was like, I wasn't sitting there looking at my watch going, Oh, I got places to go.

Uh, it was

I was pretty lucky and coming back pretty much the same thing.

A little bit of weather on the way back, but nothing too crazy.

Glad to be home.

And I just want to thank my mom and my mom and Dennis for housing me, homing me and showing me all the great stuff that Arizona has to offer at this time of this very, I guess very hot time of the year now for them.

So, but it was a good time.

I would definitely go back there and visit.

I don't know if I could ever live in Arizona.

That just, I don't know.

That's just,

But visiting is very beautiful, very, very beautiful.

Am I overreacting?

Like I haven't

flown in a

while.

Oh my

God, you're over.

Oh my God, calm

down.

The question alone was that was

an overreaction of some

sort.

There's a question of the night.

Am I overreacting?

I'm not one of those people that like, you know, was ever, I don't like, I don't love flying, but I did my fair share of it.

Yeah.

Do you get nervous?

Like I remember a year ago when all those crashes were happening.

I was really, I was actually scared to fly, but now we've got, you know, you said you had a smooth experience, but something happened in New York a couple of days ago or yesterday that we'll talk about.

Do you get nervous like that, Greg?

I do.

have a like different sets of nerve for what you can, I don't know how to say experience it, but like,

I get anxious about getting into the airport, getting past security.

Not getting past security like I'm going to get caught, but just lines.

The lines to get in, that's one of the reasons why I have TSA pre-check.

That provides me a level of anxiety.

That's fine.

It's manageable.

I always get through it.

It's whatever.

As far as flying itself,

Yeah.

I would say that my, my fear has been raised in the past year, both by the amount of, of crashes that there have been, as well as I would just say, you know, from our, from our country's response to our leaders responses to all these crashes.

We'll talk more about them a little bit as far as what happened in New York, but yeah, it's weird.

Like the takeoffs make me nervous.

But

once

we're in the air, I kind of feel fine, even though, you know, you're 35,000 feet in the air.

And if anything happens, you're like, well, that was fun.

Goodbye.

I'm the exact same way.

And that's when most accidents happen, takeoff and landing.

So I'm fine.

Once we're up there, I'm like, all right, well, God's hands now, but.

He is Greg Bach, ladies and gentlemen.

I'm Pete Schwab.

It's great to have Greg back in Wisconsin.

I feel your presence, Greg.

It's good to have you back.

We have a great show tonight.

Yes, we do.

Coming up in just a few minutes, Robert Jay, an excellent Madison musician, is going to tell us all about a really cool event this weekend for charity.

And then in hour number two, Milwaukee native son, Steve Burroughs will join us.

I believe Steve is in the state.

He might still be in LA, I'm not sure, but he'll be here.

He's a lot of fun.

He is screening his film Bleed Out, HBO's Bleed Out, a great documentary that Steve made about his mom's illness and her experience as a patient.

It's just an absolutely riveting documentary.

Steve is also great at comedy.

He's one of those people.

I'm not even sure I should like because he's so talented, but he will be here in hour number two.

And we've got a great question.

What else?

Craig, what am I missing?

I think

you've got and we got the nightcap to close it all out our wonderful segment So it's a it's a it's as always a packed show for everyone, but we got well We have we have three things we need to get to get to one of those three things has three things in it But that just becomes a math problem, and I'm not going to address right now But I think we should get to the question of the night.

I think you're right

Let's talk about the question.

Okay, question.

Question.

Okay, I have a question.

Questions.

This question.

Question.

Questions.

All right, well, the NCAA tournament, we just finished opening weekend.

There were some great upsets.

As usual, it provided drama and stories, but it got us thinking, what is your favorite or most exciting sporting event here in America?

You've got all kinds of stuff.

You've got the Kentucky Derby, Game 7s, baseball, hockey, football, the Super Bowl, the NCAA Tournament, the tennis grand slam, all kinds of stuff.

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Let us know what your favorite sporting event is.

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Very well said.

Good luck, everyone.

The text line is already lighting up, as you can imagine.

Lots of chances to win.

Very great stuff.

We love our text to win contest here at Civic Media.

But we've got some news to discuss too, Greg.

What do you say?

You know, you went on this nice break.

You watched some baseball.

You hung out with your mom and the hot sun.

I think we got to jump back into some news, buddy.

That's fine.

I'm here for the news.

You take me to the news, my friend.

Tom,

bring us home, baby.

Story.

Well, this is kind of a segue, I guess.

took a little break there in between, but Greg just flew and I asked him, you know, we've heard about ice coming into the airport and all the kinds of stuff.

You said you had a great experience at the airport, but the people in New York, this is a terrible thing.

We haven't heard

about this in a while.

This is our first airline disaster of 2026, an Air Canada Express flight.

I think it was coming from Montreal, carrying over 70 passengers, crashed into a port authority fire truck on the runway.

at LaGuardia and only the pilots were killed, Greg.

Yes, we found that out.

I heard about that.

I heard about the death of the pilots today and what's not weird or when you asked me if I'm, you know, if I fear flying or afraid of flying, it's things like this as I'm afraid of.

You know, it's honestly, I don't think about the plane just like falling out of the sky.

I think about these types of things happening.

And, you know, that's what led me to my comment earlier, which is, you know,

we're seeing these things, it feels like far more frequently than we did.

And it feels like the response from our government, specifically former Wisconsin congressman, Sean Duffy, who's now the secretary of transportation always seems to have nothing to say when he says something.

Because this is a big problem.

I mean, it's, it's been, I mean, and to be fair, to be fair to Mr. Duffy, to be fair to Donald Trump, this has been a problem with regard to our air traffic controllers for decades.

This is a problem that should have been fixed a long time ago.

It hasn't, but every time this happens now, I just feel like this guy gets up here in a blue zippy and says like, well, we'll doing what we can.

By the way, Joe Biden was terrible.

I don't feel confidence in their ability to fix this problem.

Yeah, and it's interesting what you said.

I'm with you.

Once I'm up in the air, I feel like, okay, this is out of my hands right now.

Turbulence freaks the living daylights out of me.

I can't even imagine what was going through these passengers.

Did they know?

I'm sure they were told to buckle up at the very least or whatever.

They knew something was up.

But as to your point about air traffic controllers for decades,

It's declined by 6% the number of them in the last 10 years.

I feel like when people fly, put them at ease.

Don't lay off air traffic controllers or if you gotta cut a budget, buy less brooms.

Don't let the air traffic controllers go.

It's crazy.

So frankly, and I hate to say this, but they're lucky that only two people died and they were the pilots and it's terrible, but this could have been a lot worse.

Yeah, and well we've seen other accidents We've seen other crashes that have taken far more many lives and they're still like there's still nothing being like there are still no big plans.

There's he's not standing in front of Anybody on a big board saying here is our plan here is you know by 2030 we want to have these goals we've identified these needs we want to we want to

treat them as goals to reach.

And here is what we are going to do.

We want to hire more air traffic controllers.

We want to make things safer.

It's always we have to wait for another crash and for them to say darn near nothing.

And then here we are again.

yeah, I don't this is not doing any in so far.

And this happened last year, too.

Nobody felt good about flying after

that.

The

response was terrible.

And there were small planes, big planes, whatever.

I just

I'm not a fan to begin with, this doesn't, and I do have to fly somewhere probably in the next couple of months.

I want high speed rail.

That's what I want,

Greg.

Dom,

do you fly?

I have.

I went to Disney one time and I was scared.

I don't like actually going in lines as well.

It just kind of freaks me out.

I prefer to go on a long road trip.

See,

I wish I had more patience for a road trip, too.

And you're safer in a plane, supposedly, but you don't feel safer.

That's the weird thing.

That's like the same people who say like Arizona, it's a dry heat.

It's still dangerous.

It's still hot.

Stop trying to make me feel less bad.

You're not doing it.

All right.

I'm

getting

discharged.

All right, we're coming right back.

The key word, folks, for our break into spring multi-state text to win this hour is REST, R-E-S-T.

Text that in on the text line.

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app, only on the app.

Sorry about that.

We are coming right back to talk about two more big stories.

That is next on Nightlight with Pete Schwabba and Greg Bach on the Civic Media Network.

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Welcome back.

Okay.

Welcome back.

This is Night Light with Pete Schwabba and Greg Bach.

Dom Lee, working the board, producing the show tonight.

It's great to have you with us on this Monday.

Hope you had a great weekend watching some basketball, chilling out, taking a walk.

It was nice a couple of days.

Maybe you were in Arizona with Greg

Bach

and you were watching some spring training.

We don't know, but did we lose Cindy, Dom?

We did.

But call back.

If you want, Cindy, if you want to call back, please do so.

We'd love to hear from you.

But yeah, unfortunately, so much news, so much going on.

Just got to prioritize and do things.

But yeah, please call back Cindy if you can.

Absolutely.

I think we're ready for our next big story, Dom.

The second big story.

So remember how last year,

Charlie Kirk was tragically murdered, like, and most normal human beings in the world were like, that shouldn't have happened.

He didn't deserve that.

That's bad.

Violence is bad.

Political violence is bad.

And then folks who wanted to talk about him in an honest, upfront way were threatened, and some were fired from their job for doing so, because they said, how dare you disrespect someone who was just killed and all that stuff, and, you know, okay.

Well...

That leads me to this story, which is Robert Mueller died this past week.

And if you don't remember the Bob Mueller, he was the one who produced the Mueller report.

He was also in charge of, I believe, the FBI back in the 2000s, early 2000s.

He passed away at the age of 81.

And Donald Trump decided to commemorate him and honor him by saying, quote, good, I'm glad he's

dead.

That's what he said.

And he also said he can no longer hurt innocent people.

Thereby, I would assume

referring to himself as someone who is innocent.

Yes, absolutely.

Absolutely.

He made it about him and it's just, you know, what's really disappointing, Greg, is we're at a point, we know we're very polarized in America right now.

It's so weird when we read the news or watch TV, we're very polarized.

When

I see

neighbors, I talk to them, it's fine.

I know

they

don't, I know they're not on the left or they know I'm not on the right or whatever.

And it's fine, but with this kind of rhetoric, how are we supposed to get past that?

When a guy who served his country, politically, militarily, whatever, dies and you say, I'm glad he's dead.

From our leader who people look up to and now you go to social media, some of his followers can't even disassociate the comment.

They're saying, well, he has a point.

Like they're agreeing with him.

Not like, well, that's done.

I mean, I don't understand how we're supposed to get back to, maybe we never will.

never will get back to where we were when we have leaders that say stuff like this.

Well, I think we need to go honestly in a whole new direction.

If you ask me, I think the only way we get away from this is by getting those people out of office.

And I also think that this also brings up a point I've brought up before, which is when we're talking about this, we also talked about the fact that this is an election year.

And folks, people who are running for office need to be held accountable.

You need to talk to them and ask them how they feel about things like this.

If those people represent your values, you vote for them.

If they don't, then vote them out.

And we need to get past it by getting these people out of office.

And the folks who called for the firing of folks for speaking their minds, yeah, they sit here and go, well, it's the president.

It doesn't matter.

What he's saying, no, you're a hypocrite.

And therefore, for me personally, I can't speak for Dom or for Pete.

But I then do not have to respect your opinion.

Because if it's not based in truth, if it's all hypocritical, then I don't have a reason to listen to you or respect your opinion because it's the most powerful man in the world.

He said that.

And then there are folks who say, but so what?

Why is he wrong?

Okay, cool.

Then I don't want to listen to you anymore.

I'm done with you.

Moving on.

Yeah, and that was the toughest thing yesterday is not responding on social media when I saw stuff.

I'm like, yeah, I'm like, no, you can't what am I gonna say to this?

They're mine.

I'm just okay.

There are people out there that agree with him and that there is no the class is out the window and I feel like that should be the bare minimum Never comment or say somebody dying was good and yeah, we're so far from being there.

It's very disappointing

But then what's great for you though Pete is that you don't have like as long as those people if you know them and they're not like, you know

comment bots, whatnot.

I believe that most of the comments that come through nowadays are coming through bots.

But if they're people you know, then you get to unburden yourself by saying, I don't need to talk to them anymore if I don't have to.

Because you will get nothing from that conversation or that relationship.

You don't have to bother yourself with it.

You unburden yourself with their being.

Yeah, you're right.

And that's, it's not really my, I went through my Facebook list a couple of years ago and just really shed a lot of bad energy.

But it's it's it gets so mad.

It's like when you see people commenting on your friends,

you know, that's that's where I have to.

Yeah, absolutely.

I agree.

All right.

I think we can we can squeeze in one more story.

Yeah, we got

this.

Yeah.

The third

big story.

Well, the secret lives of Mormon wife star Taylor Frankie Paul.

Those are three first names, I understand.

This is weird, Greg, because this is a video that existed that people knew about it.

She lost her mind

and

threw some chairs.

She was under the influence at her boyfriend.

One

of the chairs hit her daughter in the head.

All right, so that's the first part of this.

And the second part is she was supposed to be the bachelorette.

I'm sorry,

on this coming

season, the video went...

Viral thanks to TMZ and is

out there.

So there's a difference between people knowing about it and actually seeing it and how unhinged she was They cancel the whole season.

That's

crazy.

I don't even know how there that is a massive loss of money Like how are they going to recoup?

I mean that those shows I mean bachelorette is a huge show but reality shows on those networks are Cheap and they make so much money.

I don't even know what they're going to do to recoup that

loss because it's going to be a great deal.

Like what are they going to put in its place?

Like I just very interested to see what's happened.

But also I'm glad that a network actually said like, you know what?

No, we're done.

We're done with her.

We're done.

We're trying something else because Pete, you've seen it.

We've all seen it where something happens.

Someone acts so terribly.

And then a network or a studio is like, well, just, you know, see what happens.

See what happens.

I don't know.

And then we lose, we lose our interest and we move on to something else.

But Hey, good on ABC for doing this.

But that's crazy pants.

We're coming right back.

This is Nightlight with Peach Baba and Greg Bach.

Robert J joins us after the news.

Don't go anywhere, folks.

It's Nightlight on the Civic Media

Network.

nightlight with Pete Schwabba and Greg Bach here on the Civic Media Network.

You are listening to us on your radio or on the Civic Media app.

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We still call Twitter.

still lots of wonderful programming still ahead in the second hour.

We'll be talking to comedian, writer, director and documentarian Steve Burroughs from right.

He's from right here in Wisconsin about his documentary bleed out, which is available on HBO.

And we will, of course, be wrapping things up with nightlight.

Do not forget, folks, that this hour our text to win our break in the spring text to win multi state contest.

Our keyword is rest.

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Let us move ourselves into our guest portion of the show with our first guest.

He is, I want to get this correct.

I see it.

He is an award-winning singer-songwriter, recording artist who has been a mainstay in Wisconsin in their music scene for decades.

Please welcome the show.

Pete and I welcome Robert J. Good evening, Robert.

How are you today?

am fine.

Thank you.

How are you all?

I'm doing

well.

We're

great.

It's great

to have

you here, Robert.

really appreciate you being here today.

Now, looking at your website, Robert, like the

host of things that you do.

I mean, it's, it's, it's a very long list.

I mean, besides, you know, you, you, you are a solo artist.

You are in two bands, the moon gypsies, the rowdy prairie dogs.

You do shows on your own.

You've also worked with groups like the beach boys, Taj Mahal, the sub dudes, the nitty gritty dirt band, which is amazing.

But I mean, you are a busy man in the music scene, but you're here to talk about an event that's going on that you wanted to get out there and let people know about.

Why don't you start, start with that, Robert.

Sure.

We're having our 11th annual fundraiser for Mama Cares.

Mama Cares is a program which helps Madison musicians or Madison area musicians in times of medical emergency or family crisis.

And what we do is we raise money and we give it all out to help our fellow musicians.

So we've got this going on on Sunday.

the 29th this is coming Sunday at the high noon saloon from three to eight and we've got three bands we've got raffles and auction items and all kinds of goodness going on

yeah so for if people want to attend this are there still tickets uh robert and

How much of the event is music compared to some of these other cool things you mentioned, like the raffle and the silent auction?

What will their experience be like in terms of music to events and where can they get tickets?

Sure.

Well, there are no tickets.

It's a donation at the door.

We're asking for a $10 donation.

Once you get in, there's going to be tables of silent auction items with some great things, which I can get into in a minute.

There's three bands.

Each band is doing an hour and 15.

And this year's theme is called We've Got You Covered.

So we've got three really hot cover bands from the area.

That's a power takeoff.

The Foo Fight or the Foo Foo dolls And and the hounds and they all are great bands and doing different genres of music and very talented and so those are the three bands in between each set we're doing raffles and And everything and of course some of the items that were given away or not giving away silent auctioning

We've got some great stuff.

We've got Sine Vinyl from Garbage, Sine Vinyl by Butts Vig of the Nevermind album.

We've got tour jackets from Melissa Ethridge.

We've got guitars.

And this is the cool one.

Right behind you, you can see this.

It's an actual gold record of The Beatles' number one album.

to us to use for our silent auction.

So there's that, then there's show tickets, there is, you know, restaurant baskets and all kinds of good stuff that people have donated and businesses have donated to help us with our cause to help our fellow musicians.

How long have you been doing this event?

This is our 11th

year.

11th, that's right, that's

right.

Yeah, it

all started

11 years ago my son had emergency brain surgery and It was tough.

It was a real tough one.

Yeah, but my friends Rick Toit who was the founder of the mamas and my bandmate friend Chris Wagner from the moon gypsies threw a benefit for our family to help us through the times and because of that my wife and I at the time felt like we should

pass it forward.

So I got the concept for Mama Cares.

And I got it, you know, while, while JC, my son was in the hospital, they have a program called Badgers Give Back.

And I'm not sure it's called that, but they send their teams into UW Children's Hospital and other hospitals to lift the spirits of kids who are going through some heavy shit, heavy stuff, excuse me.

And

As a result, I thought, what a great idea.

Now, what can we do to, you know, pay it forward?

And so that's when I came up with the idea for Mama Cares.

Is it hard?

I mean, I would imagine this, this is an event, it seems kind of similar to Joey's song, which they do in January, that I know Butch Vig is also a part of that as well.

Can you talk a little bit about Robert?

You kind of just did, but if you could elaborate on the community of Madison artists, I mean, the whole community cares and has these great fundraisers.

I know they did something for Rocker here at Civic Media.

It seems like an incredible community.

This is a neat town, man.

And that's why I moved here and stayed here.

It's the perfect size, in my opinion, of a city I want to live in.

And in a town this size, I would say there are more talented bands and musicians than I put it up against anywhere in the world, Austin, wherever.

And there's different factions and different styles of music and stuff, but we can all come together and be supportive.

That's what we're trying to do here, you know, because it's not easy being a musician.

Believe me, I know this is my 53rd year of playing ours.

Nice.

Run some things.

Um, but yeah, you know, um, we want to help each other when we can, you know, and why not?

I mean, that's perfectly said.

Why not?

I mean, that's, we see that all the time we see.

whether it's musicians or artists or, you know, firefighters, teachers, when someone's in trouble, we band together and we come together and we help them out, because that's what we do.

We are talking to Robert Jay, who is an award-winning singer, songwriter, recording artist, who is, according to his website, and I've seen from what he does, he is a mainstay in the music, the Wisconsin, as well as Madison Music Scene, talking about the Mama Cares van taken, going on this Sunday, you said?

Yes,

it is this Sunday

the 29th from three in the afternoon until eight at night and It's gonna be a ball It's our 11th year over the time over this time.

We've given out and raised over a hundred and ten thousand dollars Wow so far, you know like it'd be more but it's what it is and we just keep plowing ahead and trying to Raise what we can and give out as needed.

Yeah

really quick, sorry, I don't want to interrupt Pete because I know he's got another question.

If people can't make it to the event, can they go somewhere?

Is there a GoFundMe or on your website where they can donate like people listening right now, they can't make it to the event, but we can put that website in the show notes and they can go and they can maybe drop, you know, a few bucks if they have it.

Thank you.

And that's a great observation.

And yes, if you can't make it to the event, we are accepting donations at any time at

TheMamas.org slash Mama Cares.

Or if you want to just give to the mamas, the mamas, you know, they've raised, you know, lots of money, over a quarter million dollars to give out to, to put instruments in the hands of kids, to give lessons, to give instruments, the equipment to give, you know, all kinds of things.

So,

It's TheMamas.org slash MamaCares.

Perfect.

Thank you.

Let's talk about another really cool thing you had happen recently.

For your career, a Lifetime Achievement Award, speaking of the mamas, February 15th.

What was that like, Robert?

I mean, you're in the city you love being recognized like that.

That must have been spectacular.

I tell you man, it was a love fest.

As a musician, as an artist, you want to communicate, you want to reach out, you want to connect with people.

And to have this come back to me, I felt like the connection was made.

And it was pretty cool.

My good friend told me this.

He goes,

Well, you know how you win a lifetime legacy award, Robert?

He goes, you outlive all your critics.

I don't think you're that old.

Kind of put me back into

perspective.

Well, I mean, I mean, you know, you win a lifetime achievement award.

That means, and you just said it when you said 53 years in your in the music world and playing out and doing live shows.

We have a few more minutes before we have to take a break real quick.

And we can come back and talk more about it.

But your history, is it rooted in Madison?

Is it rooted in Wisconsin?

Where did that spark begin for you?

Oh, man, it started when I was a kid.

My uncle had a guitar.

My grandpa gave me my first Mickey Mouse crank guitar when I was like two years old.

And

I've

had a guitar ever since.

But you know, my dad worked for the Canadian National Railroad.

We traveled all over the north as he went up the ladder.

And you know, between sports and music, that kind of music kind of took hold.

I graduated from college in Detroit at Wayne State University and jumped in a band band pretty much the next day and moved to Colorado.

And

I'm still jumping in band bands, you know.

It's like, you know, my retirement fund is playing until the day I die.

That's

what's

going

on here.

That's

awesome.

Do you have any dates coming up other than the fundraiser on Sunday that you could tell us about if people want to see where you're playing?

Oh, yeah.

You know, I got a few.

I'm, you know, I play at restaurants.

I'm playing at Buck and Honeys and Sun Prairie.

I'm playing at Ruth's Chris Steakhouse.

Then I'm doing a little gig with my bandmate Chris Wagner, a multi-instrumentalist at Chief's Tavern in Madison.

And then later in the year, the moon gypsies are going to pick up and do like a good handful of gigs throughout the summer.

I can't be bought, but I can be rented.

Well, we'll talk more about your fee on the other side of the break.

We're talking to singer-songwriter, Lifetime Achievement Award winner Robert Jay here on Nightlight with Pete Schwabba and Greg Bach.

When we come back, we'll talk more about a song that you discussed before we went on the air that you wrote many years ago, but it's still prevalent and relevant today.

But more with Robert Jay on the other side of the break.

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