Transcript
Mob Queens and Awkward Gazes (Hour 2)
Nite Lite with Pete Schwaba and Greg Bach · Thu Sep 4, 2025
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Welcome back.
Tonight, light folks, we are kicking off hour number two, also known as act number two, Conrad Krieger work in the board.
Our current guest, Rob Thomas is on the line.
We'll be back with Rob in just a moment.
If you've missed our question of the night, this is a perfect chance, folks, to get involved in the show.
We have a great question tonight and we need to play catch up on some texts.
We will do that in just a moment.
But what is the most awkward time to make eye contact with someone?
That is tonight's question.
Let us know what you think at 855-752-4842, 855-75 Civic.
I said when you're making out with someone, there was always that awkward moment where you're like, you know, like maybe you're a teenager or younger and you're like, is she looking at me?
Maybe I should open my eyes and then you make eye contact and the moment is ruined So Conrad says at the gym Well locker room locker room, okay That's that's a weird one.
It's that guy culture.
You don't want anyone to mistake You could just be looking at a guy Because you think he's handsome right and they make it weird Maybe you're just lusting after this guy and you're just sneaking a peek and then he makes it weird.
Yeah, yeah, totally so
So, let us know what you think and you can drop us a stream comment or a comment on the app.
We had a nice talk about a movie called Threesome that we talked about early in the show and with Rob Thomas.
I just looked at Rob's sub-stack during the news at like 6.30 and I'm like, oh, I can't believe I thought we had already talked about that movie, but he just reviewed it.
So, go to Rob's sub-stack and review and read about Threesome.
You'll really enjoy it, folks.
All kinds of fun stuff.
Bob Dennis will be here at 720 in just a few minutes.
We're going to talk about female mafia members.
He is our local mob expert and a great podcaster and a really fun guest to have on here at Nightlight, especially when he comes in the studio.
So we just took a picture too of Jocelyn from Rise and Grind.
She was our Nightlight window love person.
Always nice to get some window love from a neighbor.
They have great stuff.
They're coffee.
is outstanding and honestly I am, I think you and I together are putting her kids through college with all the gelato.
We've had a bunch of gelato from there.
You wouldn't have to go to the gym as much if you didn't need so much gelato, me
either.
All
right, so a fun night here, a great Thursday night here in downtown Green Bay as we broadcast statewide.
Let's get back to our guest who is waiting patiently over the stream, Mr. Rob Thomas.
Rob is a Madison-based film critic and he is also the CityCast Madison newsletter editor.
Rob, we were talking about the movie office killer, Carol Kane, Molly Ringwald, Eric Bogosian.
Why is it, do you think that it seems like...
Some actors do their best work after they're on the downside of their career, or when their star has maybe not fallen, but they're not as big of a name.
Do they just pick better projects or they kind of can't
fussy?
What's the deal?
Yeah.
Probably when they're younger, they have like a team, a manager, an agent say, oh, you gotta do this one.
Oh, you gotta do that one.
That's the one.
And maybe they don't quite make it, maybe they make it for a little while, then they, you know, because they fall off.
And then it's like, okay, I'm going to start taking roles that interest me.
And I've never done this before.
And that's a lot of times we can, you can find the most interesting performances.
Like I was just thinking about.
Jeff Bridges like in the 80s was like he had a lot of very conventional leading man roles and
you know
Yeah,
They're willing to do those scripts because there are a lot of great scripts out there, but some of the studio, it wouldn't be their cup of tea.
So they can pick better material, I think.
And yeah, that's a great answer.
So Rob, the summer box office is pretty much passed now with Labor Day.
In the rear view, what did you think overall of the offerings from Hollywood and what can we look forward to?
Like there's stuff I liked.
I think probably F1 was probably the best time I had in the theater.
It was the one movie I saw twice.
I thought Thunderbolts was good.
I thought Superman was good.
But in general, there was nothing that really popped the way Top Gun Maverick or Barbie or something like that where it's like, oh, that's going to be...
a top 10, one of my top 10 this year and is the movie everybody's talking about.
I don't know how you felt.
I mean, there's some disappointments like Jurassic Park was just okay.
I thought the Mission Impossible movie was kind of a disappointment considering how much I loved those movies, but it was just very long.
But even like, yeah, by August, I was kind of, I took a little bit of a break from seeing movies.
because it was like, yeah, I mean, these are good, but nothing really sticking.
And the big ones by that time mostly have all come out.
I would pretty much agree with you, although I did think it'll be interesting because I think Sinners probably was my favorite film of the summer.
Yes.
But it will be interesting to see how that, you know, ages, like will it be a classic or was it just kind of one of those movies for that time?
I don't know.
That'll be fascinating.
That's great.
And I liked 28 years later a lot as well.
All right.
So what did you think of Naked Gun?
You saw the remake with Liam Neeson and Pamela Anderson.
What were your thoughts on that film?
I mean, I love, I still remember seeing the original in theaters when I was in college in 1988 and have an awesome time with my friends.
And I had a good time.
Like my brother and my dad were visiting town over Labor Day weekend.
You know, the problem was we saw it after been out for several weeks.
So the theater was nearly empty.
So you didn't get that experience that we talked about where the theater's packed and everybody's laughing.
But it was still a good time.
You know, those kind of movies.
you know, five jokes will go by and one or two will hit, but that's a pretty good, that's not a bad backwards for a comedy like that.
It's still
it's still that airplane comedy where, and I know this cause I read this recently that airplane was rated the most jokes in any movie.
I think it averaged like three per minute and naked gun is along those same, I mean, it's a toss up to me.
between airplane and the original naked gun.
I thought they were both outstanding,
did you like this one as
I mean, not as much, but I think, but I did think Liam Neeson was, you know,
having a great time playing it very straight.
Yeah.
I thought Pamela Anderson was a really good choice.
Um, and they were, they were good jokes.
Just, you know, every minute or two, there was one that would make me chuckle or, or, or just come in nowhere and make me laugh really hard.
And it's, it's a short, it was a short movie.
It was like 80 minutes, so it didn't overstay.
It's welcome.
Rob,
credits,
was like an hour and 10 minutes.
It was barely a feature film.
Right.
Um, which I, I think I liked.
I mean, yeah, I'll move you like, yeah.
So, uh, yeah, I was, it was like a three star for me and, and maybe.
those older movies you mentioned, like I've seen them several times.
And now I think every joke on those movies is hysterical, but maybe I wouldn't have thought that back in
the day.
Yeah.
I have one more thing I wanna ask you about, and it was, or it's more of a thank you.
You reviewed this movie, 40 Acres, and my wife and I watched that.
We just streamed it one night at home.
What a good film.
great review.
And I totally did the film justice.
I really liked it.
Have you been watching South Park?
earning
They are crushing.
I highly recommend the new season.
Rob, as always, pal, thank you so much.
Great work.
Keep it up.
And let's talk about old Madison restaurants next time.
I'm sorry we didn't get to that next time.
Thanks, Pete.
You got it.
All right.
Rob Thomas, folks, check out his work at CityCast Madison or at his sub-stack at NotThatRobThomas.
and read his reviews.
So Bob Dennis is coming up in just a few minutes, folks.
He'll be here in the studio at 7.20.
And right now we got to catch up on some Texcon.
Yes, yes we do.
I don't think I've read one text yet from the text line, have I?
No, you've been locking.
Dropping
the ball.
Terry from the 7.15.
And these are responses to our question of the night, which is, when is the most awkward time to make eye contact with someone?
I say when you're making out, Conrad said in the men's locker room,
And I think, I was curious too, as if it was the same for women in women's locker rooms, or do they just understand they're normal people and not dudes?
So it's no big deal.
I don't know.
Terry from Wausau in the 715 says, when standing at the urinal, yes, we've...
I have a feeling we're going to get a few of those.
Thank you, Terry.
Monica from Mount Horrib says, when one of you is naked, I was in the locker room sitting down on a bench, putting my shoes on.
And some woman I don't know said something to me.
So I turned my head to look at her.
And just as I did, she dropped trowel and undergarment.
So I was eye level with her nether region.
And it was very uncomfortable.
Monica, very well written.
I felt like I was in the medieval times there for a while, the way she used to.
25 cent words.
Awesome stuff.
Thank you, Monica.
Where are we here?
John Murray from Madison, our pal John in the 608 says, when your eye contact with a man next to the female form who may be his wife or girlfriend or sister whom you have been open mouthed ogling.
Johnson Ogler Conrad.
He says it's awkward when he happens to immediately after you look away from the nice lady.
Well said, John.
Monica says, just as weird for women.
Okay, I'm glad we know that.
Kind of an equal rights thing here tonight, because we're about to talk about mob bosses that were female with Bob.
And Monica says, it is just as weird for women when you're in the locker room and make eye contact.
Okay.
Aaron Zommers, our pal from Madison.
He is the producer of the Todd Alba show and does a great job there.
Check out Todd's show here on Civic Media.
Aaron says, you know, I think eye contact in the locker room is fine as long as you don't look at the packages.
Like Conrad.
He's coming after me tonight.
He's coming.
But you know, according to Seinfeld, maybe you're not there yet.
But Kramer says, did you guys sneak a peek?
It was Jerry and George and Kramer on the locker room.
And Jerry said, no, there's certain information I need to know.
And what about you?
George and George kind of like blushes and looks away.
And he goes, what about you?
And Kramer says, of course I snuck a peek.
It's normal to sneak a peek.
John Murray also says, when you make immediate eye contact while peeking through the curtain of an adult video room at the video store, never looked back and deterred me.
and deterred me from ever going in there.
That would be awkward.
That's like in the changing room.
We had a taste like that before.
Tyler from Wisconsin Rapid says, when you're peeing on a side note, you better drink all the water you can handle now before all family owned data farms suck the wells dry.
Yeah, that is a concern.
Well, I mean, you can just go to the ocean and drink out of that, right?
Yeah, sure.
We
got the Great Lakes.
We might be sitting pretty in two hours.
We'll see what happens.
Robert from La Crosse in the 801 says, when a professor asks a question desperately, wants...
Oh yeah, like when you're sitting, you know, as a student, and you want, he's like, all right, what's the answer to this?
And
you're like... He looks right at you.
And you're like, not me.
Sorry, drop
me.
No, I do not.
I'd love to help you out, Prof, but I dropped my pencil on purpose.
John again in the 608 says, when your girlfriend's mom bursts into the bedroom and catches you doing terrible things to her lovely young daughter.
John has run wild with this one.
He says that glare turned me to stone, made a screen face, but got stuck for a bit.
You know way too much about John.
Aaron Zombers again from Madison.
Read the bathroom.
Just knock first.
Oh, he has got Conrad's number.
Yes, he does.
I see a leg rustle.
You guys need to settle this on the mat.
That's what I'm saying.
What about a toe
wrestle?
Is that a thing?
I don't know.
I think it should be.
Bridget from the 818 says, after leaving a bathroom and your coworker is ready to go next.
Oh, that's a great one, Bridget from the 818.
That's perfect.
All right, we're coming right back for some mob talk with Bob Dennis.
It's Pete Schwabba and Nightlight on the Civic Media Radio
Network.
You're listening to Civic Media.
Stay up to date on the latest news and information for your local community and Wisconsin by signing up for our free email newsletter.
Visit civicmedia.us slash email to get
started.
I'm Pete Schwabba, and we have another stream comment from Eliza, who says in Australia, we have chocolate tops, vanilla ice cream cones dipped in chocolate.
Am I reading that right?
Never had one last pass to trailers.
Get your eating done so you can focus on the movie.
That's what I say.
Thank you, Eliza.
That's great.
We're almost caught up on texts.
You still have time to get in on the fun, folks, if you want to let us know.
When is the most awkward time to make eye contact with someone?
And who better to answer that question?
I don't mean that in a weird way.
Then my next guest who joins me now in the studio, mob expert and podcaster and all around good guy, Bob Dennis.
Hey, buddy.
Hey, how you doing?
Doing very well.
Good to have you back on the show.
We've been trying to get you back in here, but you're a busy guy.
Well, this is either my sixth or seventh time.
Is
that
right?
Yeah, we're doing pretty good.
Were you on Nightlight with the previous host?
Was there a previous host?
There has only ever been you in my life.
The other thing I wanted to say just real quick is I tried not to make eye contact with Conrad.
Has he put his clothes back on yet?
I'm just saying.
You know, a
nice
guy, nothing against him.
I mean, I understand.
Conrad is a great foil, because we have, and he's a good sport because we've had... Yes, but that foil is on his head, and it's... And nothing, nothing else.
But our pal Bill Leff, who was the first guest ever on this show, did this whole thing about how Conrad said he's going to kill him, our first guest, over the phone.
And Conrad played along.
I don't know, do you even know what to make of that?
Right out of the gate, our first guest.
He
started running wild with a bit.
Yeah, it was funny when I called him up and he's like, hey, Conrad, how's it going?
I'm like, I'm doing great.
Yeah, we're about to do the show and everything.
He's like, oh, great.
And then just went into that.
Pete, I don't want to tell you this on the air, but your producer Conrad just said off the air, he's going to kill me.
So you haven't had that experience.
That's good.
No, but it's a nice young.
And Conrad has that look about him.
He is intimidating.
He is someone that, you know, if you
know what to mess
with.
He's
been pumping iron.
Have you noticed that?
He was
doing something.
I
mean, better put his clothes back on.
Yeah.
All right.
Well, let's nudity aside.
Let's jump in here, Bob, because I think this is exciting.
We talked a lot about the mob on the show.
You certainly know your stuff.
And that's why I love talking to you.
I love to talk to people who know more than me.
It's fun to get an education.
You suggested this topic, women in the mafia, because that's something you don't often think about.
You think about Lucky Luciano or Tony Ricardo, but there are a ton of women that had prominent roles.
Yes.
And I don't know who, if we should start with women, or here's what we do.
You said they ran numbers or the policy.
What is policy for people who might not know?
It's part of the gambling program there.
You run a book you run the numbers I mean, you know what the numbers are you pull the little tabs and in essence a lot of the things that are all legal today in states
Yeah,
things of the mafia and the mob were doing years ago ahead of their time.
Yeah, and they there was also something called the the book and It would take it was a book published with words and each word had a
number associated with it.
And when you went to choose your numbers for a day, you'd open that book and you would, they sometimes called it grandmother's book, you would pick this word and that would be your numbers, because that was your lucky word for the day.
So then you would gamble on those numbers.
And I don't know how successful that was.
Oftentimes back in the day, the amount that people were spending, because it was a lot, the biggest time was during the prohibition and during the depression.
And people were spending maybe a nickel or a dime on on these things, but it provided jobs for people.
I mean, here's the thing is that so much of what was illegal was the economy of people who did not have alternate sources of income.
Right.
So there was, you know, even today with with and I'm not condoning it, but drug running or theft or, you know, any number of things gambling.
There's a need.
Yeah, I
mean, it
was there and it was like, yeah, okay, we'll do that.
So
kind of wild.
But policy, as I understood, a policy was popular in the black communities, right?
And I think that's how I know there was a gangster on the south side of Chicago who got taken over by Sam Giancana and he ran policy.
And then it became the Chicago outfits deal.
But talk about like, when you say they played these numbers, you remember the scene in the sting where Robert Redford gets paid?
they do this great high it's beginning of the movie they rip off the courier and he shows up in a suit at the casino and he brings his best girl out and one guy running the wheel nods at the other guy and they just make it go to black or red or with the opposite of what he bet on and he's out I don't know two grand or whatever yeah was that I mean how how likely were you to get swindled if you just went into
gamble
If you were just an average schmo off the street and nobody knew who you were and you went in The odds are always in favor of the house sure
face it I mean regardless
of who the house is whether you're in Las Vegas or if you're in Atlantic City or wherever you're at It's always gonna favor the house, but if there was there were people who came in yes the games were fixed Very easily and they were able to do that whether it was a card game or a dice game where it was roulette or
Any number of other games that they played that was just you know one of us.
Hey, we know him scrum, you know
And you're right.
That's what the mob was doing before it became like the lotteries only been legal what 40 years what yeah and insurance That's what they were doing.
It's a it's a racket and they were they would make people pay in case something happened And sometimes they were the thing they were the reason things happen But it's really not that much different than what we have today is it?
It's not terribly and legal today back in the day Dutch Schultz wanted to take over the numbers racket from and I'll mention this later on the woman who ran the numbers in Harlem and He tried to put the push on her and he St.
Clair was her name
Stephanie St.
Clair.
Yeah, and she Was not afraid of anybody and she would you don't mess with her and she fought back and she went out and smashed businesses of people who dealt with Dutch Schultz
Let's
let's pick up there.
Let's let's lead off with Stephanie St.
Clair when we come back a Harlem gangster-esque if you will gangster-esque if you will Oh, I like that godmother.
Yeah, we'll do that We're talking women in the mob after the news with our pal Bob Dennis We're coming right back on nightlight with peach wabba on the civic media radio network
In addition to the water, that's probably why I'm having my issues, but we just got more more window-love Conrad.
People stopping by to have their pictures taken.
We're building up a catalog.
Yeah.
In case I asked someone to take their picture and they say, you know what, Schwabba?
Take a hike.
You know, I got someone in the Rolodex.
I can go to the bullpen.
I need to take a picture of you outside.
Well, we'll do that.
And I'll be like,
is that when you said you were going to change the locks?
Yeah, I know.
So
I
was supposed to mention that.
Come on, Bob.
Bob, your window, can I say something?
Yeah, absolutely.
Years
ago
back, especially when you're somebody
else.
Hi, hon.
What's happening?
It's back in the 1950s and early 60s.
Yeah.
Television stations used to have what they called the weather windows.
And the
weather windows, the weather guy would go out and he would do his weather forecast, you know, behind a huge window like this.
And people would come by during the day and
they'd wave and
they'd, you know, watch and
Uh, it was very popular, uh, in big cities.
I mean, in Milwaukee, Chicago, Minneapolis, it was, it was just incredible.
I mean, it was a very popular thing.
And then, um, I'm sure I know what happened.
Why they had to stop doing it.
No, they kept doing it for years and years and years.
I mean, that, that people were actually very respectful.
I mean, you know, it wasn't, uh, it was something because they knew the camera was going to pan back to them.
Yeah.
Uh, so that they could be seen.
And then after the weather guy was done, they would remove the screen from behind him and you could look into the newsroom.
Oh, okay.
Doesn't the Today Show still do that?
Probably.
Or maybe they resurrected it or something.
I haven't watched the Today Show.
I haven't watched it either.
My guest is Bob Dennis, folks.
That is Bob's voice.
He is here with me in the studio.
He is a mob expert.
And I just got distracted because I saw the police.
The police man walked by.
He can't break the law.
He wasn't waving the law.
No, he was not.
He had that cop thing where he had his hands tucked into the vest.
Yeah.
I think they all watch Chicago Petey, and they try to emulate.
I don't know.
But Bob Dennis is here, folks.
Bob is a mafia aficionado.
He's never been in the mob, at least not to the best of my knowledge.
And we are talking about women in the mob, something that does not get discussed very often.
So we said we were going to start with Stephanie St.
Clair.
She ran numbers in Harlem.
Tell us about Stephanie St.
Clair.
And the numbers and policy are the same thing.
I
didn't answer you that earlier.
It's the same.
You did say that, I think.
So she was actually known as the queen of the illegal numbers rackets in Harlem and was really one of the wealthiest women.
She's African-American.
Not an African-American, but she was African.
She was from Martinique.
So
that is an African.
That's what
Caribbean.
Martinique American.
Yeah.
I don't
know.
I'm not good with these things.
You know, I barely get out of my neighborhood.
So anyways.
So anyway, she immigrated to New York in the 1920s and started up her own policy racket.
She competed with a lot of the big boys, but because it was the...
African-American market in Harlem, they kind of just said, that's your own deal.
Go ahead and do it.
And then they would come in and when they put the muscle on her would try to skim some of the money from her.
And she was very tough.
And she was like, no, you're not going to do that.
And she had her people who had come back and fight back.
Dutch Schultz tried to come in and put the muscle on her.
And he said, yeah, you paid me 500 bucks per worker.
And she was like, yeah, I don't think so.
And she was not afraid to use her gun.
She killed three of her husbands.
It's like,
okay, yeah.
Looking
for a number.
Was Dutch Schultz a Chicago guy?
No,
he was a
New York guy.
Okay.
Yeah.
What was his name?
Flemingham.
Flemingham.
Okay.
But, you know, it doesn't sound very scary.
Right.
No.
Schultz doesn't sound that scary, but Dutch.
Yeah.
I wouldn't mess with the guy.
Well, it
worked for the president, though.
I mean, you know.
True.
So anyways, let's see.
So we talked about it.
They had the three digits for the...
the policy numbers, those numbers could come from anywhere.
It could be, you know, what the Dow Jones was up or down that day or what horse race won or they would pick their numbers from almost anywhere.
And of course they could always control it.
And there was one time, and this I have to think back on because I remember reading it, that for some reason, I know what it was, people in New York had gone to this Chinese restaurant.
and they were buying their food and they were getting fortune cookies.
And of course, you know, on the fortune cookies, there's always numbers on the back.
And people were playing the numbers.
And they were winning hundreds of thousands of dollars in New York.
And it was like, uh-oh, what's going on here?
So the police came in, you know, and they were like doing the investigation saying, what's going on here?
How was this going on?
And the guy was like, I just buy the cookies.
That's all I do.
I don't even make them.
I just buy them and people play the numbers.
Pretty big kawanky thing.
Yeah.
So wow.
Tell us, Bob, about Virginia Hill.
This
is interesting because I think some people like I was fascinated by how
these women got into these positions.
Like, did they set out to be in the mob?
Were they dating a mobster?
And then they just kind of fell into this business.
Virginia Hill, I read, was trying to get into the porn business.
She went from Georgia to, I think, Chicago and ended up being this mob queen.
She tried to get in with Al Capone.
Al Capone, 1932, 1933.
was put behind bars for tax evasion.
So she actually, I've got his name here somewhere.
She got in thick with a gentleman named Einstein, I think was a Jewish mafia guy.
And
from
Chicago.
Yeah.
Oh, Epstein.
Yeah.
Epstein, right.
Yeah.
And
No relation.
No,
well, I'm not going there.
Staying out of it could be.
You never know.
You never know.
So anyways, she got in with him and throughout her life continued a relationship with him off and on.
And he introduced her to all the people that she eventually would hang with, including Lucky Luciano, Meyer Lansky, Frank Costello, Tony Ricardo.
Jake Guzik, there's other names here, Joe Adonis, and of course the Bugsy Siegel,
with whom
she had the longest relationship.
And he was madly in love with her, and of course they were gonna go out, they were gonna build the Flamingo out in Las Vegas, but the two of them were scammin' money
from the mob.
That was
his girlfriend, he was scammin' money, like in the movie with
Warren
B, okay.
Yeah, she was his girlfriend.
And because she had been, quote unquote, friends with all these other mafia people, they told her, you know what, this might be a good time for you to go to France and get some wine for
the
Flamingo Club.
And there he was sitting in the rental unit that he had along the home she rented with him.
Right.
And they came by and shot him through the window and got
him right through the back of his head.
Right.
Back of his head and out his eyes.
She was played by Annette Benning in the movie.
It was just Bugsy, I think was the name of the movie.
And it
was what's his name?
Warren
Beatty.
Yeah, Warren Beatty.
And that's, if you're looking for a movie, folks, a good mob movie, at least one that's educational, I didn't realize how Vegas was, I only knew Chicago's involvement, what I had read, they became the force in Vegas, but initially it was Bugsy Siegel was his vision to make this desert.
gambling crossroads.
I mean, talk about looking at sand for miles and miles ago.
I can build something.
And that's crazy.
Well, there was a small
town there at the
time.
Okay.
But it was nothing.
I mean, it's a gas station, a couple, maybe a casino.
But the reason that he built it there was because there was a railroad going through there.
And the guys coming back from World War Two had to stop and sometimes transfer trains there.
But
it was
just, you know, there was nothing there.
So there was, it was never built up.
And that's where he had the vision because it cost him next to nothing to buy sand, you know?
That's
brilliant.
Bob Dennis is my guest folks.
He is here in the studio with me.
He's a local fella.
You live in the Allaway area, right?
Did we cover that last time?
Trendy old Allaway.
Local guy.
And he is a mob expert and drops by from time to time to talk.
Mob and gangsters, always fun.
So, all right, so we.
Who else to?
Oh, this one,
I gotta tell you a little more about Virginia
Hill.
Oh, yeah, yeah, please.
She was well known as being a money launderer for the mob.
She was a cash courier.
She was a heroin, Mexican heroin trafficker.
She was an informant on the mob at one point in time when they thought that they were closing in on her.
She lived for the style.
She got jewelry and furs and she would seal deals with rich people in Mexico when they were vacationing and then blackmail them.
And speaking of Epstein, that's ahead of her time, right there.
And so anyways, eventually she got in the same thing for taxes that she didn't pay.
She married an Austrian skier and continued with Epstein, taking funds from America and putting it into Swiss bank accounts for him.
And then also transferring money into her own pocket at the same time.
And the federal government just kept after her and she was eventually in debt at that time would have been in the late fifties Somewhere around two hundred and twenty one thousand dollars which today and be like you know millions yeah, and She sold everything she had only made forty one thousand dollars tried to pay it back And they're like yeah, that's not enough and ended up just dying it you know Oh, they didn't kill her no she was actually in Austria and she took an overdose and sat outside in the snow
Really?
Yeah
She's a great one.
Here's, I thought this, I don't know, it's between the Chinese human smuggler, Sister Ping China or Rosetta Cutolo from Italy.
I don't know if I'm saying that right.
She was apparently brilliant with numbers and tried to blow up a police station and then went in Italy and then went on the lamb.
She has an interesting story.
Well, they all do.
I mean, they're
all just, they're not afraid, you know?
They're not afraid
to go out.
Why is that?
Is that because they come from nothing?
They had hard lives before that?
And let me ask you this, Bob.
And I'm not expecting you to know this exactly, but when you're in the mob, like you just said she ran numbers and then she did South America stuff and all that, how do they not just get killed?
Doesn't it eventually catch up with them?
And if you're a soldier in the mob,
What are your chances of longevity or just living do most of them get whacked to do?
eventually over time not the capos or whatever, but Do you have any idea what the death rate is for these guys?
I have an
approximate idea, but let me just tell you very few of them have 401ks.
Okay Fair
enough the average lifespan for the guys who were out there who were higher profile.
Yeah five years would be a long time No kidding.
Yeah, it was one of those things that
which is why it was unusual for people like John Gotti and Al Capone to be out in public and to be seen so much because normally they try to stay under the radar so
people wouldn't
see him or try to off him or something.
And so that's crazy.
I'm
sorry.
So you're talking about Mariella Cardi?
Yeah, but you tell us.
No, I was talking about Rosetta Cattolo or Sister Ping China, the case of the snakehead queen.
That was interesting.
But you tell us, you're the one with the information.
You know, I don't mind you're leading the way through here because we
You know, oftentimes we don't get everything discussed here.
I got to turn my page back.
Um, let's see.
Um, well, Marilla Cardi, she was from Naples.
And yes, most of them started out poor.
And it was not unusual for them to be married at a very young age, like about 11.
Oh my God.
And more often than not, the ones who are involved not only in drugs and prostitution and whatnot, but human trafficking.
Okay.
A higher percentage of the women who were involved in trafficking than were the men, believe it or not.
No kidding.
And just anything to get rich, right?
Or not be poor again, I guess.
Yeah,
to not be living on the streets and having some guy, you know, some guy beacher or something.
We have to talk about Griselda Blanco.
Yeah.
She's the, she's the immortalized and thanks to Netflix,
right?
She is possibly the most successful godmother ever.
Okay.
Fill us in.
All
right.
Oh, I thought you were gonna take her.
I wasn't sure.
I thought you were taking a break.
No, no, we've got about a minute and then we'll come back and we'll, we'll.
So anyways,
for one thing, they have a series with Sophia Vagara, who
is
starring in that in Netflix.
She actually did the executive producer of it.
And
Her end for me was as a just a cold-hearted murderer and a shrewd Miami narcotics hustler and they gave her the name of the cocaine godmother and They all made a movie out of it with Catherine Zeta-Jones And then like I said later on they have now the series that's on the TV.
She was known for being bloodthirsty and just fearless she had four children and As I mentioned off-air there was one time where she reportedly
tortured a guy and told him that she was going to decapitate him.
And he begged her and said, no, just shoot me in the head.
I think
if someone calls himself the cocaine queen, maybe that's someone you just kind of have a fling with.
You don't marry that.
We'll talk more.
Bob Dennis is here.
We're going to wrap things up when we come back with a little more mob talk.
It's Pete Schwabba and Nightlight on the Civic Media Radio Network.
You're listening to Civic Media.
Find the latest news, information, and archives of all your favorite shows on the Civic Media website, civicmedia.us.
All right, so I don't like to miss texts.
Last night on social media, our question was if no one had ever seen, if you knew someone who had never seen a movie, what movie would you show them?
And George Temmers on social media said, Ishtar.
And you remember Ishtar?
I
actually thought a lot of that was really funny.
Yes.
And I know it's not a great movie and it just got panned, but it didn't make money either.
No, but it wasn't as bad as people, I don't know, it's like.
Waterworld you know people just get glum onto something that they want to
hate because of a buzz maybe well And the thing is oftentimes movies that are not good in the theater perform incredibly well on streaming correct
Our pal Eric Rathsack from ask your mother says Jaws we gotta have Eric back soon Conrad and then Tracy Thorpe Well, obviously the godfather of Green Bay.
Yes, Tracy obviously Tracy was in the godfather of Green Bay and it was a blast to work with her Going to our text line steady Eddie
Chimes in on tonight's question, which is, when is the most awkward time to make eye contact with someone?
Steady Eddie says, Pete, you may find eye contact awkward with other patrons when you and your wife get busted, handcuffed, and frog walked out of the Marinette Theater into a waiting squad car for sneaking blue moon non-alcoholic beer into the movies.
I don't think it seemed like that.
Wow, much of it.
serious of a crime.
But he says, Pete, you know you're on the radio, right?
People at the movie theater can hear everything you say.
I recommend you and your wife wear a disguise next time you go to the movies.
Trust me, these teenage kids that work there could not care less.
Everett from Sun Prairie, he's in the, well his phone is in the 262.
He says, through the crack between the door and the partition in a public toilet, some of them are irresponsibly wide by design.
Everett thinks the toilet engineers are trying to encourage peeping toms.
And then finally, Barb from Walk-A-Shaw says at the gym when using the inner and outer thigh strengthening machine, I imagine myself winking and licking my lips at a guy just to see his reaction.
Oh, that's very contrary.
You should do that next time you go to the gym.
you don't do that machine.
I mean,
I
literally just did that machine today, but I didn't do that.
Aaron Somers has cooled his criticism of Conrad, so there will be no leg wrestling tonight.
Tomorrow night on the show, folks, filmmaker Daniel Wheeler will be here, and it is a bar band Friday night with Terry Bar.
We have a few more minutes with our pal Bob Dennis.
Do you know how many of the people you have on who all
know each other?
Yeah, quite a few.
Everybody.
It becomes like a network.
It's just everybody knows
everybody.
Oh, before I forget.
I was part of the Appleton podcast co-op, but now they've changed their name to the 920 creative co-op and there are people Dan is in there and Actually
thought Dan was a Milwaukee guy.
He's in some funny new movie that
yeah But there are people throughout the area that are all involved in it
guys are all y'all know each other.
Yeah, it's
it's like Marinette where everybody's related I'm not going
there.
I'm just gonna let that go
just don't date anybody there.
It's lovely people but
You got to be careful.
You don't want to.
All right.
So we have about a couple of minutes with our pal, Bob Dennis.
Bob, tell us about Sister Ping, China, a female mobster from New York.
She's got a cool story.
Yeah, she is.
Cheng Zhao Ping was her name.
She was known as Sister Ping.
She had earned her name as the Snakehead, which is the Chinese nickname for someone who is a human smuggler.
Sister.
That's a great
nickname.
Huh?
That's a great nickname.
Yeah, she is.
She was the leader of the underground group of the crime group that organized from China, the country of China, to New York's Chinatown.
She trafficked about 3,000 people, immigrants from China to the U.S., charging on average an amount somewhere around $40,000 ahead, amassed a fortune of somewhere around $40 million between 1980 and 1990.
Now, she didn't do just Chinese.
She would do other ethnics.
However, they paid more than the Chinese.
Really so if somebody if their situation was dangerous and they were Chinese it might be 40,000 Okay, where the normal price would have been about 18 But if you were a from a different country She would usually do 40 or 50,000 or more and then she would loan you the money and when you got to the country You would have to go to work for somebody that she said you had to work for and basically enslave them at these different companies and The money would be given to her
so how do they
That has to be the way most people did.
Who's getting 40 grand that wants to leave their country?
I assume they're not rich, you know, or part of some kind of aristocracy.
These are people that these are immigrants that want to get the hell out of there.
Because it's so bad.
Yeah.
So there are they getting 40 grand, especially back then.
Well, all right.
So some of them are going to be doing illegal things, of course.
Yeah.
I mean, that's that's a whole different, you know, different day.
But all right.
they're going to do whatever they can to get the money to get over here and send a lot of them that's taken out the loans with the Sister Ping.
And she basically ran people from China, from Hong Kong to Guatemala, and then from Guatemala to New York.
That was her route.
She actually had one, it was called the Golden, something golden ship that she had people on who were stranded in the harbor in New York.
couldn't get out, and it was literally, because they couldn't come into New York itself, but they would be out by the sandbar.
And something happened, and they ended up having people who actually died trying to jump off the ship, and they were so desperate.
That is unbelievable.
And I mean, just to think, how long would that take?
You go to South America from China, then to America, how long of a journey is that for your 40 grand?
Well, that's gotta be,
I mean, it's not, well, it's
not like
being on a Disney line.
It
takes a long time.
You know, I'm thinking it's probably gotta be at least three to six months, depending on conditions.
Without shuffleboard.
Yeah, it's
hard.
I mean, you
know, it's one of those things.
So anyways, she was quite the con.
She was the person who just built a whole industry out there.
And there are people out there who would say, because she treated people from her hometown and then her home area of China very well.
she would accommodate them and make sure that they were taken care of.
But if they weren't, she'd just ground them into the ground and put them in big transport carts like you have on the back of a truck and ship them from China to America.
I mean, it was just horrible.
Other than Blanco, we've got about 30 seconds left.
Is there any one of these women that there's a movie about that we could check out?
Gosh, I didn't do that off the top of my head.
There are a couple of books that are out.
One that's in paperback is called The Godmothers.
And that talks about a lot of these different, not all of them.
I mean, I barely scratched the surface
of some of this,
but...
I'll have to start reading again.
Bob, it's been a pleasure making eye contact with you here in the studio.
Thank you very much for coming in, as always, my
friend.
As Conrad put his clothes
back on.
He's back.
He's dressed.
We're all set.
Okay.
Thank you to Bob Dennis.
Thank you to Rob Thomas for making the popcorn pick of the week.
It was... What was it again?
It was Jaws.
It was Jaws, of course.
How could I forget that?
We're coming back tomorrow night, folks, to do it all over again.
Thanks for being part of the show.
Thanks for your calls and texts.
This has been Nightlight with Pete Schwabba.
On behalf of the lovable producer, Conrad, I'm Pete Schwabba saying good night,
Wisconsin.
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