Transcript
Wisconsin’s Film Future and Park Passion (Hour 2)
Nite Lite with Pete Schwaba and Greg Bach · Tue May 6, 2025
You're listening to Civic Media.
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And now, a guy whose house has an actual wiggle room, Pete Schwabba.
Welcome back to Nightlight, ladies and gentlemen.
We are about to start Act 2 after a lovely intermission.
Thanks for sticking with us.
Our question of the night is, what is your favorite cool summer drink?
It is National Beverage Day.
And finally, the weather appears to be heading in the right direction.
And I think you're right, Conrad.
We need to get Brittany Merlot on the show.
She is a big time award winner.
She swept the WBAs.
And that is exciting.
And Brittany works really hard at meteorology.
And she's like a doctor
So enjoy the nice weather and tell us what your favorite cool summer drink is, folks.
Alcoholic, non-alcoholic.
Whatever your beverage is of choice, let us know.
Cliff Wall will be here in a little while.
We're gonna talk about Wisconsin State Parks.
He is on the board of the Friends of the Wisconsin State Parks.
So we'll talk to Cliff about all the fun things you can do this summer, trails, parks.
It's gonna be a lot of fun.
Cliff's been on the show before and he is a swell guy.
That's coming up in a little bit.
Right now, we just learned, I just learned actually a day or two ago that an incentives bill will be...
They're having a hearing tomorrow, I think, on the state senate.
We'll get all the details from our next guest, but it's Assembly Bill 231, a film incentive bill, and they're going to give it some attention tomorrow, so we'll see what happens.
And here to help us kind of decipher this and figure out where things are at is a gentleman named Ko O'Neill.
He has spent the last 20 years teaching art and design and video production and screenwriting at UW-Stout, and...
Not only that, he used to work for Lucasfilm Limited.
That's kind of cool.
We'll talk to him a little bit about that as well.
And it is my pleasure right now to welcome Co.
Tonightlite.
Hey, buddy.
Hello, how are you?
I'm doing very well.
How are you doing tonight?
I'm doing pretty well.
Thanks
for the nice intro.
Did I get it right?
Did I miss something?
No, you did.
No, you got it right.
OK.
I've been teaching for the last 20 years or so.
Not always, it's a doubt.
I just started this out in 2020 before that I was Portland State University in Portland, Oregon.
OK.
And yeah, before that, I was in the movie business.
Very nice.
Well, we'll get to all of that, I hope.
But right now, this is a big deal tomorrow.
What do you expect to happen?
So it's Assembly Bill 231, the film incentive bill.
What are you hoping happens tomorrow?
And what will we know?
First of all, tell us a little bit about Co, if you would, what if the bill does pass?
What does that mean?
So what it means is that the tax incentives could draw film production, television production, actually any kind of media production, including advertising to the state of Wisconsin.
And, you know, a lot of other states have it.
I think we're one of only.
Three or four states that doesn't have a state film board one only on the only 13 states that doesn't have any kind of incentives And so what will happen is it draws?
It allows any production company that is going to spend a certain amount of money on a production to do it here They spend the money here and then they get the rebate based on the money that they've spent
So for example, if you came here to shoot a TV series and you spent $20 million on that TV series, you could get up to 30% back on that because all of your payroll, all of your rentals, all that stuff that you would normally be paying taxes on goes right to the state of Wisconsin.
And then the state of Wisconsin refund 30% of that.
Six million
bucks.
Yeah, and that's significant and that makes a big difference.
I mean, when you're choosing where to shoot your film, I shot a film in Wisconsin 20 years ago and there were no incentives.
And then
I think
they were here briefly and then they didn't last long and now there's a new attempt.
What is the difference, Ko, between getting an incentive and it also says a 30% tax credit?
I know that's what you're referring to, but is there a difference?
I mean, would filmmakers rather have the cash back,
right?
Well, that's right.
And that's what the incentive is, is that you do get a tax rebate.
And so it's not a grant.
And I think that's one of the points of confusion is that a lot of people think, oh, the state's just handing out money to people from out of state making shows here.
And that's not the case.
The case is you only get the money back once you've spent a certain amount of your budget here in the state over the course of a year, for example.
So some great examples are New Mexico, where they shot Better Call Saul and Breaking Bad, like those shows.
Weren't written to take place in Albuquerque.
They took place in Albuquerque because of Mexico at a 45% tax incentive at the time and Georgia is similar with the things like The Walking Dead or any of the Marvel movies, you know that were shot all in the Atlanta area It's because of the incentive and and you know, Georgia has been doing that for years, which is why they draw so much production.
I know that You know, Minnesota has you can take advantage of two incentives if you shoot in northern Minnesota in the iron range How
Let's say Wisconsin passes this and you get a 30% rebate.
Will that, do they still have to maybe push for even more to be competitive with some of these other
states?
Not really because Wisconsin does offer a lot of regional advantages.
I mean, even look at topography.
So the way we have hills and valleys and streams and lakes and all that kind of stuff that you see in other states just not to the.
the look that we have here.
So think about a place like Door County, like you're not going to find a region like that in Minnesota.
It's nice as Minnesota is.
And I think one of the reasons Minnesota does have it regional is because Minneapolis is such a center of advertising activity that could eat up a ton of incentive.
And so then, you know, if feature films or even car ads want to go to the Duluth area, they have to have a separate incentive.
Otherwise, Minneapolis would just absorb it and it would be gone for the whole state.
Whereas Wisconsin, I think is much more balanced and you won't see people just gravitating to Madison.
They'll be going to places like, you know, Superior, like I said, Door County or even Green Bay because of just how different all of those regions look.
Yeah, absolutely.
So.
What is your gut telling?
What do you think will happen tomorrow?
And what's the best case scenario for a group like Action Wisconsin to come out of the hearing tomorrow?
Well, unfortunately, it's not like a pageant, you know, they don't just hold up the numbers and say, good job, you win, you know, you have to actually kind of, you know, it would be nice if we could just get 10s and move on.
But it's a long process.
But the good news is that it is a very bipartisan.
Bill and it was actually drafted by Republicans and obviously a lot of the arts kind of go to the liberal side.
So both sides are really vying for it because of the economic factors, you know, and advantages it has towards the state and other states.
I was on the state film board in Oregon for many years back in the early 2000s.
And that was a very balanced thing.
And the original concern was that all the work is going to go right to the cities, but it turned out not to be the case.
Like people were actually looking for
kind of rural communities or smaller communities that have a charm to them, you just can't fake.
And so in terms of what's happening tomorrow, you're probably aware that we've already done some testimony where we went to some of the events like in Hayward or West Alice or.
Wasau and spoke there and said here's our case.
We had like three minutes, right?
So
tomorrow will be a dedicated hearing just to this bill and there is no time limit.
So it's not really a Cory Booker style filibuster, but it is the sort of thing where you can take 10 minutes and really make your case a bunch of people can speak.
So they'll just listen to us for a couple hours.
It'll be the whole, you know, committee will be there.
And so it's really important to kind of be down there and be able to
answer questions.
And I think that's probably the biggest difference.
But yeah, then they'll have to go and vote on it before the full legislature won't be.
They, you know, the committee makes recommendations to the full government.
They don't just decide right there and sign it off.
So when will that happen?
Like, let's say tomorrow goes well, when would the vote take place?
I wish I knew more about Wisconsin politics.
But, you know, at the state level anyway, I don't know if they have
like votes you know quarterly or daily or you know how they how it goes and also some stuff can get tabled right they might say oh we'll push this to the next session or whatever so my hope is that it would happen in the next month or so because then you could still get your state film board set up and that takes them organizing
because there are two components to this bill.
It's not only the incentive, but also having, you know, eventually establishing a state film board, which can be just one or two people.
It doesn't have to be, you know, a dozen folks, but the idea is you're starting to get local liaisons.
You know, Minnesota has those where in smaller communities like Brainerd or even Rozo, they have a liaison call to get location pictures or to walk people around if they're interested in certain areas.
So getting that set up will take some time, but it'd be great if we could
be rolling by the end of the year.
But honestly, I don't know.
That's my speculation.
That's the voice of Co O'Neill.
He is a professor at UW-Stout and has worked in the movie business for much of his adult life.
He is taking a few minutes with us tonight to talk about this Bill 231 that will be up or is getting a hearing tomorrow in Madison.
Will you be there, Co?
I will not.
I'm actually just finishing up my semester here at Stout.
The Action of Wisconsin is sending down, I think, at least 12 people to be there to answer questions and give different perspectives from all over the state.
So it's not just Milwaukee.
It's also places like Race Lake and Superior and Hayward and people coming from all over to go testify.
It's just great advertising for the state.
And I really hope you guys are successful.
What do you think the public stands on this bill?
Because you mentioned there's bipartisan support.
And I remember meeting with someone in Madison about 10 years ago when I first moved back here that he wanted to, and he was dating a Republican representative.
And they were very passionate about getting the bill passed.
So that should tell you, with the bipartisan support, is it easier to get the public support?
Where do you think the public stands on this right now?
You know, it's a good question because in other states that I've operated in, in the film business, you sometimes have some kind of maybe sort of big city feelings where you think that all the monies in the big cities and all these big cities are making decisions for smaller communities.
And, but also on the other side, you have a lot of people becoming more aware of kind of sort of
More rural based productions like you think about the walking dead I use that example a lot because of how long that show has run and how many people have seen it so something familiar But that didn't take place in Atlanta, you know, the most lot of it was shot out in the in the sticks, frankly Yeah, and so But I think the challenge of the public is saying well wait now.
We're spending ten million dollars a year on on movie production It's like no, it's it's that's a cap on the credit so
It is going to be an important message to put out that people don't get money by shooting here.
They only get the money based, you know, percentage of what they've spent is an incentive to shoot here.
I think to like, like at least my personal opinion is I think you have to build a culture in this day to and start.
young with kids theater and the arts and music and dance and acting and all that kind of stuff.
Because I've seen it happen in some states where, oh, we need money for interest infrastructure.
Oh, kill the instant spill.
That's not how it works.
This should be part of our culture in the fabric.
But I think the goal, if it does pass, will be keeping the public interested in it, right?
And keeping
it going year after year.
That's right.
And also explaining that it's not like a portion of the budget of the state budget that's sitting there waiting to be spent.
It only goes out when money has come in.
So, you know, it's what we like to say kind of revenue neutral, you know, where you're not spending money just to spend money, you're actually waiting till you get a revenue in from these productions.
And then you return a certain amount of it because all of the money that they've spent has gone into these communities.
And I think a lot of people don't think about
what goes into making a movie, which you know, having made one and having worked on them.
It's not just about let's rent a camera and go trample all the cornfields with our trucks.
It's
more
about.
you know, even one of the representatives I was talking to, um, had made a movie in the Chippewa Falls area and had said, we rented portable air conditioners because the location that we were in was so hot and we had rent everyone in the whole area.
And this is, you know, somewhere north of Chippewa Falls.
And so
it's, you
think about that or you think about, you know, even like cherry picker lifts where we hang lights from, like they rent that locally.
They don't drive them in from Chicago or Los Angeles or places like that.
That stuff is right in the town.
You're shooting it.
Right.
Um,
And their
incentive to do that is because that's how they can claim the incentives, too.
If they spend
money out of
state, it doesn't help
them.
I was going to say, I mean, it's that quick, too.
It's a huge infusion just in terms of personnel, too.
So all those people have to stay in hotels.
They'll eat at restaurants.
They'll get a catering.
And I think it was Rob Lowe, the actor, just recently said he was on a TV series where it was cheaper to fly 200 people to Ireland.
and make a movie than it was to shoot it in LA.
All right.
Hey, hold on one second.
OK, Cole, we're going to do a really fast break and then let's pick up there.
We're going to get cut off here.
Cole O'Neill is here.
We're coming right back.
It's Nightlight with Peach Waba.
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started.
Tuesday night here in the state of Wisconsin.
This is Nightlight with Peach Waba.
Our question of the night is what is your favorite cool summer drink?
It's National Beverage Day and it looks like summer is well...
about to be here.
So Cliff Wall is coming up in a few minutes to talk about the Wisconsin State Parks, something we have here that is an absolute treasure and we'll talk about some of the things we can do this summer and what he does there for Friends of the Park.
Right now we have a few more minutes with our current guest, co-oneal, who is a professor at UW-Stout and has worked in the movie business.
He is involved with Action Wisconsin and trying to get film incentives passed here in Wisconsin.
Assembly Bill 231, we'll get a hearing tomorrow.
in front of, is it the Ways and Means Committee, Ko?
That's correct.
Okay.
So before we move on, I want to ask you about what you did at Lucasfilm, because I find that fascinating too.
But how can people, if they support this cause, what can they do?
Well, what they can do is let their representatives know that this is something they're interested in.
And then once the, you know, if the bill is passed and once things take shape, just to
let people know that you're there and that the community is accepting and then supporting the film board and by sending in something as simple as photos of interesting things in your area because it's expensive and time consuming for an actual location scout to go out to every single town in the state.
Great point.
All right, so I would love to hear what you did.
I know you worked for George Lucas, I believe.
Our friend Nathan Deming told me that you worked for Lucasfilm.
What did you do there?
That's right.
I was at, uh, I started at Skywalker sound, which back in the day, this is pre Marvel before Disney bought the whole empire as it were.
Um, and, uh, um, so I was hired as part of a big hire for episode one, you know, at the time there had not been a Star Wars movie in something like 30 years, 20 years.
And so.
Episode one was being released in May of 1999, and I started there.
And my original job was as a digital audio technician, which basically meant I restarted computers that crashed and helped support when sound editors or sound designers and mixers were finishing a movie, just making sure everything works smoothly.
And then I transitioned into assistant sound editing, which involves cutting sounds.
And so I was on
you know technically when you're there and you're you know working on all these movies you could say I worked on over 50 films because over 50 films went through there in the time that I was there jeez that's amazing but it's not like I'm you know it was on editing on every single movie
Just admit it, you're the next Luke Skywalker.
It's fine.
It was pretty funny.
My first day at work, some guy showed up the security kiosk dressed as Boba Fett and said he was scripting with George Deread.
So there was a lot of zaniness that happened there in those days.
Was that up
in Central
California
or was that in LA?
No, that was San Rafael, California.
So it's a little town called Necasio.
and George has a bunch of property out there and that's where Scott Worker Ranch is.
He's done well for himself.
Yeah, not bad.
Having done sound editing, it's funny.
I just watched the conversation about a week and a half ago, which I hadn't seen in
years.
Opala movie.
It's hugely underrated.
It's genius.
It's great.
And I never real, I mean, to me anyway, at least what comes to mind is that's the first film I think I saw where sound was so important or maybe blow out with Travolta back in the day.
But I love the way they use sound and you realize how important it is to that plot, but also just to movies in general.
Yeah, that's right.
I mean, it was a sound had kind of been around, but it hadn't really come through as a narrative.
Sort of element, you know, and ironically one of the first movies to really use sound as an element was the Citizen Kane could because Of how they just used things like reverb and giant spaces and that kind of thing and that didn't really happen before that But there was a long time where you know We had so many musicals in the studio pictures in the 50s and that was just about everybody lip-syncing pre-recorded stuff and dancing to it and so when the French films came through in the 70s late 60s and then Coppola in the early 70s
pretty amazing stuff.
That's great stuff.
Hey, before we let you go, and I really truly thank you for your time tonight.
This has been fun getting to know you.
I hope we can get you back sometime.
But do you have a cool summer drink that you are in favor of or a big fan of?
Man, I'm a sucker for the Arnold Palmer.
You know, just lemonade and iced tea.
It's like, can't go wrong.
Arnold Palmer's running away with it tonight.
That's fantastic.
Ko, great meeting you.
Thank you so much for your time, and good luck tomorrow, and good luck with your efforts.
I hope you guys are successful.
Let me know if I can help in any way.
Yeah, thanks for your support.
You got it.
All right.
That's Co O'Neill.
He is a professor at UW.
Stop trying hard to get Assembly Bill 231 pushed through so we can have film incentives here in Wisconsin, which I think to me is a no brainer.
I mean, especially when you have bipartisan support and a lot of really dedicated and passionate people working to get this done.
It could be a great thing for our state.
So like he said, if you're in favor of that, you think it could be good for the state as well.
Please contact your representatives and let them know.
Our question of the night, as I mentioned, is what is your favorite cool summer drink?
Summer appears to be here.
It is National Beverage Day.
Yes, we have a National Beverage Day.
And steady Eddie says, checks in from the 608 and he says, Pete, my favorite in the backyard summertime drink is one cold bottle of spotted cow.
But if Cardinal Pizzabala is selected as the next Pope, I will drink two.
Slow down, steady Eddie.
It's not even officially summer yet.
But have another spot at CowBuddy, you've earned it.
Just from your texts alone and what you bring to Nightlight.
I hope you have two beers, because I think you've earned it.
Bridget from the 818 says, fresh, squeezed, icy cold lemonade.
Love it as a kid and love it as an adult.
That is a great choice.
Thank you, Bridget.
And second vote for lemonade tonight too.
It's like the All-American drink, right?
Lemonade?
Yeah.
That's
Yeah.
That is a really good drink.
We can seriously do like just a what's your favorite lemonade because there's so many great lemonades.
Country time used to make one, but fresh squeezed is great.
Yeah, AJ in the 608 says, good day, Pete and Conrad.
If I have to say, my favorite summer drink is iced tea.
I love to add lime and lemon.
Interesting.
Lemon and lime, I like it, AJ.
And if you're feeling loosey-goosey, a bit of booze.
Lucy Goosey's a good thing.
Thank you, AJ.
Keep those texts coming.
When we come back, we're going to have some State Park talk with our pal Cliff Wall.
He is a board member of Friends of the State Parks.
Stick around for this and find out what parks you should visit this summer because we have beautiful ones here in Wisconsin.
This is Peach Waba.
This is Nightlight.
This is the Civic Media Radio Network.
Let's floss gingerly.
Let's floss gingerly, baby.
What phrase would get an NFL team more fired up than that?
And Tom Brady yelling, LFG.
Let's floss gingerly.
I love it.
Perfect thing for combat sports.
Hey, if you're listening, folks, and you like the show, don't be afraid to give us a like or a follow on Facebook or YouTube, or we're also on Conrad.
We're on X. Twix, yeah.
Twix.
We're on Twix.
Friendster, maybe?
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Anybody still on Friendster?
Myspace?
I don't know.
We love to get likes and follows.
And we love when you text us, so you can still get in under the wire.
What is your favorite cool summer drink?
Right now, I'm very excited to welcome my next guest.
I met this gentleman about a month ago when he was here.
And we were talking about an entirely different topic.
We'll touch on that too, but he is a member of the Friends of the Park Board.
Friends of the Park in the state of Wisconsin.
Friends of Wisconsin State Parks.
I'm glad you clarified that, Cliff, but don't get mouthy.
Cliff Wall is here.
Welcome back, buddy.
Hey, I'm glad to be here and trade some barbs and, you know, take a few pokes at... You used to sell cars, and I've only known you.
This is the second time I've been around you.
And you seem like just like...
the nicest guy, did you sell a ton of cars?
How rich are you?
How much do you make a year, Cliff?
That's really why I wanted you.
I'm out of social security now.
I'm out of fixed income.
Can we leave it at that?
Yeah,
sure.
I'm not asking for a loan.
I'm just like, you're a nice guy.
You must have done very well.
So it's great to have you back here, buddy.
And when you were here, you were here with Sam Venese.
And you guys were trying to get Jack into the NFL Hall of Fame, a campaign to get him in.
He hired.
was part of the hiring team that brought Vince Lombardi here.
Pretty good resume.
And you were going to set up a booth at the draft or a station or something.
How did that go?
Well, here's what we did.
I think we, uh, we got petitions and we put them around, around the city.
Okay.
Can I, can I name names?
Yeah.
Okay.
So we have, we had some at Margaritas.
We had some, of course, at the Redwood Inn.
Um, my buddy Mike Bloomer at St.
Michael's.
Um,
Let's see a Bravo restaurant You mean fliers like just to know what we actually put Yes placards with
people coming inside Union Hotel, of course because that's kind of famous in Packer history.
Okay bosses news Depot another icon.
Yeah, let's see then the blue collar along Broadway Crop seas and
Lenny's pub.
Nice.
And there's some more around that I don't remember.
And then we did set up or Sam did set up a tent on the corner of Oneida.
Oh, I'm
sorry.
Lombardi and Ridge Road.
And he actually had Jack's daughter, Valerie there.
And she got a ton of signatures.
I mean, just a ton.
So
we've got
we've got public support.
Now we have to get the sports writers.
involved and I did talk to Pete Doherty and he said, well, find out who's on the committee for the seniors, the, you know, there's three groups, I guess seniors, owners and contributors.
Okay.
And he'd be a he'd be a contributor, obviously.
Yeah.
So, so we're, we've got to do that and get get a little, oh, I would say just a maybe an eight by 10 sheet of high points of why this why
Jack should be in the media.
I should be voted
to
the NFL Hall of Fame, the Pro Football Hall of Fame.
He's already in the Packer Hall of Fame.
Yeah,
which
is
pretty cool on its own.
But I
mean,
that would be something
if you guys could help get him in.
And if I remember correctly, you're mostly talking about the Bears because you're from Chicago.
And so is Sam.
So I was trying to interject.
Hey, let's talk about... I know.
You kept
trying
to reel us back.
And all I
wanted to do is ask him questions about what it's like growing up with two brothers, one who became a rock star executive here in Green Bay and another one who was executive for the Bears that helped build the 85
Bears.
Right.
That's
incredible.
Right.
And he was a veterinarian.
He wanted nothing to do with that.
Right.
Yeah,
that's, that's correct.
The interesting guy to listen to and to talk to I really enjoy hearing
his story.
He was
fun to have on.
I hope you guys are successful.
But you do a lot of work with Friends of the Park in Green Bay, but you're part of Friends of the Wisconsin
State Parks.
Okay.
Okay, fwsp.org I got to put the Yeah, fwsp.org that's friends of Wisconsin State Parks.
Okay, org and that's our, our website.
And you know,
Obviously, we have just like you.
We have a Facebook page.
So like us.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
So tell us what what your group does.
What are you guys?
What are your passions?
What are you trying to do on behalf of the state parks?
Well, here's kind of officially.
Okay.
We are the umbrella group for friends groups of individual state parks.
So our real mission is preserve
promote, protect and enhance state parks and trails.
We should include trails on there.
Absolutely.
And we've kind of gone down to two things, which is advocate and educate.
Now, just so I don't get in trouble, we do not lobby.
We're not a lobbyist organization.
We are a 501C3.
So basically, it's promote parks and just what it says.
In 2024, there were 20 million visits at the state parks.
Wow.
And that's just parks.
And then there's also trails.
You know, we have a trail right out the door here, basically the Fox River trail.
And that actually starts on Port Lear Street and head south from Port Lear Street and Green Bay, just so there's no confusion on that.
So how many of those 20 million people
Our from Wisconsin, like I'm sure we get a lot of visitors from probably from Illinois, Iowa, maybe Minnesota, but how many of those do people in the state utilize the parks like you hope they would?
Yeah, yes, they
do.
Now, I should know that you got me.
You shot, you shot, you shot me and I don't know.
I wasn't trying for that cliff.
That's all right.
Next
time a pie graph, would it kill you to bring in a nice pie
graph?
And we can.
Yeah, it's always pie graphs always great on the radio.
Exactly.
I thought he's doing well.
I wore my hair to chill.
volunteer.
I like that.
Yeah, I like that.
Volunteer in the back.
I got it.
Yeah.
And of course, that's, that's what we, we try to do.
Friends of Wisconsin State Parks, we have 10 person board right now.
And hint hint hint, we could use some more members.
Conrad.
Yep.
We could use, we could use another board member or two.
Maybe go a little younger.
Get the kid.
All right.
Krieger on
there.
Absolutely.
I mean, that's here's the here's what I see is kind of an issue.
is if Pete, if you look at me, the board looks a lot like me or a female version of me.
So you're the young guy in the board.
They call you kid.
Yeah, kind of.
I'm
actually older than you, Cliff.
So I don't know if I'm the answer either, but I don't think you are.
Well, this is great.
So when did this start?
Like, you know, everybody has like a side hustle, a pet project, a hobby.
What is this for you?
Is this a hobby?
And how did you get into this?
Like, when did you realize you wanted to do something?
You're just passionate about parks your whole life?
Or did it
develop at some point?
I can, I can start way back.
My uncle and my father, my uncle bought some property at Whitefish Dunes, which is now a state park.
But it was between Whitefish Dunes, or the beach and Cave Point.
He had property there in 1940s.
Where is that?
Where's what?
Whitefish Dunes.
Whitefish Dunes is north of Sturgeon Bay on the lakeside.
Of
Jacksonport and Sturgeon Bay.
So
say about 10 miles out of, okay, 10 miles out of Sturgeon Bay on the Lake Michigan side.
Gotcha.
So they built a place there.
So I was going to that area before I was born.
kind of my you know when you talk about prenatal you're going back wow yeah so I um it is now part uh actually it's part of part of whitefish dunes state park in fact you can still see the foundation the concrete foundation there's still some remnants there and if you're walking from the dunes park towards cave point the kind of along the uh the waterfront
You'll see two huge hemlock trees.
That's what I remember as a kid.
And they are still there.
Oh, wow.
Down.
You know, a key point.
If you haven't been there, it's it's pretty
spectacular.
We go to Door County a lot, too.
But I haven't.
We mostly are on the bay
side.
But you're kind of you sound like Pottawatomie Peninsula.
You know,
mostly
Sister Bay Harbor.
But we've been to
Jackson Port and we've gone to eat in Bailey's Harbor.
But
Yeah, the old Dorr County is just beautiful to begin with.
But what are some of your favorite state parks?
Like, where would you tell someone to go?
Oh,
boy.
Let's see.
Pick three, you know, three.
Okay, you know, I, I, we were just at my wife and I were just at Pottawatomie because they opened up the tower about a week and a half ago.
Is that the one in Fish Creek?
Nope.
That's that's peninsula.
Oh, it's one
in Sturgeon Bay is Pottawatomie.
Okay, gotcha.
We walked up the tower 100 steps up the tower.
Nice.
And beautiful view of of Sawyer Harbor and the islands out there and the Bay coming into Sturgeon Bay.
Yeah, beautiful up on that thing.
And of course, I do like Rock Island way up because that's rugged camping.
That's true camping.
Is that still in the county?
That's that's on the Chippodore County just off of it's just past Washington Island on that little chain that kind of heads across.
Wow.
And that that's
That's that's that's a park worth going to because that was started by a Chicago you're gonna love this it was started by a guy in Chicago who invented the big transformers and he He has a he was Norwegian so he has a replica of a Norwegian long house there and it's a boat house really interesting and he he was Trying to grow a root of baggies and different things and kind of make it.
I don't say communal but kind of a communal
Yeah, area.
And of course, then employees from the company could go up, you know, they take a boat from Chicago and go up there.
It's worth it's worth visiting.
And of course, there's a lighthouse.
You can actually be a docent at the lighthouse for a week.
And you
really
have to be at the lighthouse for like from 10 to three or something to show people the lighthouse and take them up and see a replica of the Fresno lens and be a cool side gig.
Yeah, absolutely.
To get there, though, you have to go from the Washington Island.
ferry across and then go across Washing Island to catch the car for you, the Rock Island ferry.
that the water is low, you can probably almost walk across.
No way.
Really?
You might have to jump or swim for about 10 feet or so, but I could handle that.
I'm an athlete.
Cliff Wall is here, folks.
He used to sell cars in abundance, and now he's working on behalf of the Wisconsin State Parks.
He's been on the show before, and we're talking state parks, so... I didn't answer the question.
You asked
me a
question.
Well, you told me to.
I wasn't going to let you off the hook, though.
You got to give me one Nondore County park now.
Okay, let's do
that.
I have never been to Lapham Creek, and we had a meeting there, and that's just past Waukesha, and that's a really nice park.
They have a...
It's worth seeing people donated a couple donated land and their and their house.
So the house is like I'd call it kind of kind of Frank Lloyd right ish.
Oh, nice.
A lot of glass overlooking the Lapham Peak area.
And that's, you know, the Ice Age trail goes there.
Oh, yeah, that's the old that sounds awesome.
That that's cool.
Another one.
Another one is Willow.
Willow River Park, that's over by Hudson.
Okay.
No, the other thing, now I've not been there, but the oldest park in Wisconsin is Interstate Park in St.
Cory Falls.
And that's way west, right?
Way west.
Yep.
And then across that, there's the Minnesota Interstate Park.
So that's how they.
Okay.
One side of the course, the west side of the river is Minnesota, Minnesota and East side is Wisconsin.
And that's that's the oldest
park.
Is the Chequamagun forest part of the Wisconsin State Parks, or is that a different?
That's technically a national
national forest.
Okay.
Cliff Wall is here.
We're going to do a very short break, and we will come back, and I don't know.
I'll try to keep you on your toes, Cliff.
I'll ask you something cool.
We're coming right back.
This is Night Light with Pete Chihuahua on the Civic Media Radio
Network.
You're listening to Civic Media.
Find the latest news, information, and archives of all your favorite shows on the Civic Media website,
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Tuesday night show here with our guest, current guest Cliff Wall.
Tomorrow night, folks, we have all kinds of fun planned.
Oh, the lights just went out again, Conrad.
What is the deal?
doing
there?
Not making any movement over there.
Is that what we got?
Well, we're waving our arms around.
What are we supposed to do?
Do a tap dance or something?
Tomorrow night on the show, folks, it's everyone's a critic show.
Piat Levy is here from the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel.
He writes about music.
And then our pal Rob Thomas joins us to talk movies and TV at 720.
So tune in for that.
We have a few minutes more here with Cliff Wall, who is a board member of Friends of the Wisconsin State Parks.
And we've got about five minutes left, Cliff.
What do you want to hit on?
Like, how can people get involved?
OK,
let's talk about why I really am here.
I thought I knew, but if you're pulling a
fast one here, by
all means.
So we're really, we talked about, we're advocate and educate, but we're tasked this year, because it's 125 years of Wisconsin
State
Parks.
And look at this, I brought Peter present.
It was either a, the famous Swedish.
dish towel or a kayak and I couldn't get the kayak in the door so I brought him the dish towel.
Thanks for nothing.
Yeah.
This is great.
It's kind of cool.
You know, you can probably sell that in eBay if you've done probably 50 cents you might get and I'll donate it to the parks.
It's
everybody wins.
So we are trying to raise $125,000 that as as an organization friends of Wisconsin State Parks and it's a little harder than you think because donors also life to give to the parks in their area.
Right.
But I look at it this way.
Let's say there's 20 million visits to state parks and trails every year, which is incredible.
Yeah.
If each one of those visits, people that visited gave a dollar, yeah, we'd raise $20 million.
And do you have that?
Do you have like a little bucket or something where you kind of encouraged?
We're trying to we're trying to get there.
And of course, so 125,000, I can kind of break it down.
Yeah.
So because because I'm on that committee of trying to raise money.
Yeah.
So
I say, well, we can get 10 corporate donors at $12,500 each.
Okay.
We can get $1,125 donors, or we can get a small, small portion of the state of Wisconsin, 125,000 people each donate a dollar.
Yeah.
And we're there.
And we're there.
You know, I like to break the numbers down to smaller, chewable amounts.
Yeah.
And it
doesn't seem so overwhelming, right?
Now, then people say, so what do you do with that money?
Well,
as a group, we take any money received and we give out matching grants to the friends group around the state.
And we, you know, we, we start off, let's start with, we have matching grants.
So sometimes it's something as simple as a picnic table, a firing, um, signage for the parks.
Okay.
Um, then it, you know, goes up the ladder.
We've, we try to, we'd like to have a naturalist in the state parks during the summer to have a naturalist program.
So we'd pay, we'd, you know,
Contribute half of that to the for the parks and then he up to it like a track wheelchair for Disabled people disabilities access to parks.
Do they not have that now
or is that well?
We've got a few we like to we'd like to get more around the bigger parks Or a kayak kayak launch.
Yeah, some of
those kind of things So, you know, it goes up it goes up the chain that we try to we try to help friends groups and there's 67
Well, let's let's start.
There's 50 state parks.
Okay, there's 44 state trails.
And there's 67 friends groups.
Now I'm going to ask you a question about this about state.
There's a 44 state trails.
There is they're all on land except for one.
They're all on land
except for
one, which would mean it would have to be
Sky or water is
water water water.
Okay.
The kayak.
Well, there's a there's actually a trail along Lake Michigan kind of from Sheboygan North.
Oh, wow.
Nice.
Yeah.
So that's the only one that's not on land.
How
do you do is it kayak or is it like, well, you can
you can swim.
You can walk.
Oh, thanks.
That's why I didn't bring you just lost me.
That's why I didn't bring the kayak.
And then of course, the Ice Age trails big too.
Yeah, that's
That's 1200 miles.
That sounds so cool.
I love that.
Well, all right, so let's before we run out of time, I want to talk about your you have a couple big events coming up, but people can find out more information about what you're talking at the website, which is and donate to
and donate and donate and
feel free to donate.
I'm going to give Cliff
He's going to donate back this.
Whatever
I sell that for on eBay, I'm going to give you the money.
It's fwsp.org.
There's donate buttons all over that website.
You
can't get on the website.
And like
you said, even a buck, if everybody, you know,
that's kind of
cool.
Talk about these, you have this September 20th.
Tell us what's happening in September.
So September 20th at Interstate Park, which is in St.
Croix Falls.
The reason is that was the first state park in Wisconsin in 1900.
Cross River is the Minnesota Interstate Park.
So September 20th is going to be the celebration of 125 years of state parks.
That's really cool.
So and then you have another big event coming up that you said you didn't have all the details on but people can find
their lap and peak is opening up a new new Visitor Center, okay, and that's coming up in May go to the website to find that and then one last thing Pete.
Yeah So how can your listeners help donate?
We talked about that.
Yeah, join a friends group and volunteer the other thing is if I found out trying to raise money that some of these businesses
You have to have a sponsor that works for the business to get your foot in the door.
So if you're in a business where they have a giving program for recreation and we need a sponsor, get ahold of us on the website.
Get ahold of us on the website.
I think Conrad LLC is all we need.
We can donate through that.
Cliff, this is fun.
Thank you, buddy.
Ginger beer by the keep up the oh, yeah, I didn't ask you your favorite cool summer drink ginger beer is perfect cuz let's floss gingerly one more text in the 414 Tom checks in says lemon with a shot of tequila lime is over overrated or underrated overrated He's chiming in with the drinks.
He doesn't like okay.
Thanks Tom I would like to thank my guest mr. Cliff wall who came into the studio tonight.
That's always fun Great to see you buddy.
Good to see you Ben
Giles co O'Neill
And thank you for all your texts and calls, ladies and gentlemen.
We'll be back to do this all again tomorrow night on behalf of the lovable producer Conrad.
I'm Pete Schwabba saying good night, Wisconsin.
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