The Real Fraudsters (Hour 2)

Good morning and welcome.

Welcome to Mattnair on Air.

Jane Mattnair and Greg Bach coming to you live from Civic Media's World headquarters.

here in downtown Madison, Wisconsin, right on State Street.

Gavin Butenoff also holding things down at Radio Park in Racine.

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We had hoped to be joined by Jim Santel.

After the 930 News, he is actually a working lawyer.

Yes, he has a job.

He has lawyer things.

He needs to be lawyer-ly.

He's being lawyer-ly today.

So Jim's not going to be able to join us.

He had a conflict with a court case, not a problem.

He will be back with us next week at the same time.

And we're still going to talk about

the ongoing mess about Elaine Maxwell.

We actually had to look

up how to pronounce her name.

There are like 15 different ways to pronounce her name.

I pronounce it

as.

Convect, but that's me.

That's one way to collar.

Yeah, but we are to talk about that coming up after the 9 30 news in hour number two I think this is kind of important In hour number two right after the 10 o'clock news.

We want to talk a little bit about Medicaid fraud

Mmm, you know all of those people all over the country who are stealing so much

money sucking off the government.

Yep, totally.

Yeah

We found some Medicaid fraud.

Not necessarily where you would

think.

Yeah.

Well, I mean, it's exactly where I thought it would be, but it's not where, let's say, proponents of cutting Medicaid would say it is.

Yeah.

So we'll kick that around after 10 o'clock.

Mike Clemens, a civic media incredible sports reporter and our colleague and friend I've known Michael for decades.

He's going to join us after 10 30 for a little sports update.

He's at the Brewers training camp this week.

Packers training camp.

He's at Packers training

camp, but we'll be talking about the Brewers.

The Packers getting ready for the new season.

Oh my gosh, it's like next month, I think.

Isn't that

crazy?

Pre-season starts, but the Brewers are still red hot.

They did have a loss this week.

The 11 game streak was broken, but they came back in great fashion last

night to

beat, to trounce the Seattle Mariners and

show them who's boss.

He'll be Michael will be here after the 1030 news and we'll wrap it up as we always do with this shouldn't be a thing today.

It is the underwear edition So if you can stick around for that that's coming up at the very end of the show around 1051 ish or so want to start off with this though we have been talking about this in bits and pieces, but I Think this is really important.

Mm-hmm

This is from the Wisconsin Examiner.

Page Gross has the byline.

Trump's AI action plan removes red tape for AI developers and data centers and then will punish states that act alone.

AI is here.

Yes.

It's not going anywhere.

I understand that.

Yeah.

But not having any regulations and just letting it be the wild, wild West with this.

Is can I find that very concerning?

No, absolutely.

I think that this is the the pushing back on any regulations whatsoever says really it makes me feel very very uncomfortable and the fact vulnerable and also the fact that this this is a matter again of

States' rights is really good for them for some things, but when it comes to other things, well, nope, states can't do it alone.

This is a federal thing.

No, it's if Wisconsin wants to regulate it, and Illinois doesn't, then they should be able to.

But honestly, the federal government should be regulating AI, or at the very least, looking at AI as still a very young technology.

With all kinds of problems.

And talking to, what are they called?

Experts about the future to say, all right, here's where we start.

Here's where it can go.

What can we do to make sure that people are safe, both their data and just their livelihood?

Because, I mean, Rachel Maddow had to do an entire segment on her show to talk about these AI pictures of her saving people in a flood in Texas.

Like there were people who had, yeah, they were like, like, she saved her baby.

She was like, I don't have a baby.

I don't live in Texas.

I don't have a home in Texas.

I love

Texas.

But I'm not there.

Those pictures aren't real.

So I mean, just at this point in what I feel like it's still the infancy, if it can do that much and leave people to believe such a thing, then we need to be careful and look at where AI is going and how we can set up certain protections.

And this thing of, well, the states can't do it alone.

Well,

Cool, another constitutional amendment.

Just scratch it off.

There

you go.

Don't need that one anymore.

We're just

gonna have the second amendment, and then the third amendment will just be a repeat of the second amendment.

That's all we need.

We just need a second amendment.

The Trump administration says that to accelerate AI in the U.S., it needs to remove red tape around onerous AI regulations.

The plan recommends that the Office of Science and Technology Policy inquire with businesses and the public

federal regulations hindering AI innovation also suggesting the federal government and funding to states who continue with burdensome AI regulations and again going back to states all states rights it's all about states rights not this time though because we want this the feds want this

also I think it's almost laughable that this country still has an office of science and technology policy

They don't like either of those things.

That's very

true.

That's very

true.

What was I, in an unrelated, it speaks to the same idea that a few years ago, the NCAA set up NIL deals for students.

Finally, they can make money off of it.

And now he wants to throw regulation at that as well.

So like to me, this notion of, I've always thought Republicans hate regulation whatsoever.

Yes.

So now this thing of like, well, we need to regulate the non-regulation.

So if you want to, if you're a state Wisconsin, you can't touch AI.

And that was supposed to be in the big bill for billionaires, that AI, that amendment about AI that no state could, no regulation period happened for a decade.

And then what happens in a decade's time?

Someone comes forward and says, well, now we can do it.

We can do that.

AI is too important.

And we'll by that time be part of so many systems.

How are you going to extricate yourself from that?

Well, what they're going to do is they're going to say...

the narrative will always be, well, just let the companies regulate themselves.

They know, Jane, they're the experts.

They're the ones in charge of AI.

I don't know.

I just work for the Office of Science and Technology Policy.

What do I know about AI?

Let these multi-billion dollar behemoth companies with stockholders and who have wormed their way into our contract system as far as the government, they're going to take care of themselves.

I trust them.

They do what's best.

They do what's best for you and for me.

Oh, by the way, my identity was just stolen.

Sorry, you know, it's just, that's, and people buy that.

People will be like, yeah, I trust them.

Why?

The

plan also says that free speech should be prioritized in AI, saying models must be trained so that, quote, truth rather than social engineering agendas, unquote, are the focus.

The plan recommends that there be some revisions to completely cut out references to misinformation, DEI, and climate change.

So these are all things that make Republicans uncomfortable.

So instead of dealing, we're just going to disappear those things.

And that's going to take care of the problem.

I was going to say something to the effect as a joke.

They're going to try to eliminate the word woke.

But no, they did it.

They took the idea and ran with it.

And it's not a joke.

They want to get rid of DEI in AI, which I don't even honestly, that sentence makes

the makes the the squishiness between my my ears hurt really bad because I don't understand what that even means.

Well again they want to rewrite history.

Yes.

They're gonna remove all references of climate change.

That's in project 2025.

A very prominent part of project 2025 is killing off NOAA privatizing weather

and getting rid of any mention of climate change.

Because again, if we just ignore it, then it will go away.

Well, and that's just the tip of the iceberg.

I mean, Elon Musk said he wants to rewrite knowledge, and that's just his way of saying rewrite history.

I mean, Grock is the perfect example.

Thank you.

Grock is the perfect example of what happens when you take the guardrails off of something like AI.

It turned into an ultra right wing.

I think I'm pretty sure.

He's a Nazi.

Yeah, it was saying.

horrible things as AI trying to speak the truth.

I mean, at first it was just contradicting Elon Musk's statements.

And then he was like, well, I got to fix this.

I got

to make this right.

And he made it right.

Ultra right wing.

And that's where Grock is now.

He's just that dude at a party you don't want to talk to.

Because he's like, what you don't understand, man, is that they're everywhere, man.

Chemtrails, man.

Grock is now the guy at the end of the bar.

Yeah, no one wants to know.

Don't look to rock slowly away.

Yeah, just get your drinks and go back to your table.

Don't talk to Glock.

Well, and if you think AI is not a problem, this is from NBC News, helped by AI man built bombs.

He planned to detonate in Manhattan in Manhattan.

Michael Gann built seven homemade bombs with the aid of artificial intelligence, a process he called easier than buying gunpowder.

Yep.

I mean,

we are just making it very, I mean this people can 3D print guns.

I mean the ghost guns there.

There needs to be there needs to be there.

Hey, you know what?

There's nothing in the Constitution that says we can't regulate AI So I don't understand why there is this this fear of doing it.

We can regulate AI We can absolutely do this.

We course we

can we

need to do this our people

are going to be in danger.

Well, and as you mentioned to the AI video fakes Yes, in some instances not all but in some instances are so good mm-hmm

that that's really going to be problematic.

Yes, down the road.

Well, just think about political races and how you can insert your opponent into horrific situations and people and they can run it and people will buy it.

Yes.

Yes, absolutely.

And it's also become a tool of defense as far as I will use the president as an example.

I was watching a clip and a gentleman was asking a

mega supporter about their thoughts on the Epstein thing, which we will talk about more in a little bit.

Yeah, next hour, or yeah, after the 9.30 news.

And he showed this mega supporter a clip of the president at the time speaking.

There's like 10 years ago, maybe even before he was president.

being contradictory to everything that was happening.

It was right there on the video, showed it to him, and the guy just looked at me and goes, that's AI.

And he walked away.

That was it.

That is going to be the grand defense when you try to show anybody anything they don't like about what they believe

in.

And I'm only using that example is because what I saw, I am darn sure this can be used by any kind of person.

If you say, well, I have a video here of the president saying X, Y, and Z. It's right there.

He said it.

Look at that.

That's AI.

That's fake.

You're

lying.

Misinformation.

Misinformation.

Yeah.

So this is a problem.

And it's a problem we know.

When the internet was young, we were like, the internet's going to be fun.

And then all of a sudden, after 9-11, it got out of control.

But we know what the dangers can be.

And we are purposely doing nothing about it.

Tony on the live stream says Elon being able to adjust what croc says is very alarming the change to all the models to be complementary to the users and Trying to confirm their biases is a big issue.

It was so bad.

You're right, Tony It was so bad Elon apologized on behalf of croc after we was spewing all this anti-semitism.

It was unbelievable.

It was unbelievable.

Yeah When we return

AI, we're going to continue this conversation, and confirming wrong biases and the danger that that brings.

There's a particular case with one man, very interesting, stay close.

You are listening to Bant near on air.

This is the Civic Media Radio Network.

Good morning.

Welcome.

Welcome to Matt Nair on air.

Jane Matt Nair and Greg Bach.

Comedy live from Civic Media's World headquarters here in downtown Madison on State Street.

We got sweet Calbee back at.

Home studio at Radio Park in Racine.

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Well, and the other thing, great, great thing about the app is, you know, we have a whole bunch of news talk stations across the state.

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And I want to shout out to Mr. Dom Lee in Madison, who is working with Calvin and Racine to control the boards and use their knowledge to make us be heard.

So thank you, Dom.

Yes, thank you, Dom.

Appreciate that.

We were talking about AI and the Trump administration wants to get rid of pretty much all regulations when it comes to AI.

What could possibly go wrong?

I found this story and this is one that's been burbling around in the background that I've been meaning to hit on for a while.

But he made he had delusions.

This man was suffering from delusions.

And so he wanted to chat GPT.

And it made it worse and pushed him into a manic episode.

Because from the examples that I have seen,

ChatGPT will reinforce everything you say, essentially, right?

It's not saying, no, you're wrong about that.

You're not seeing little green men.

There could be little green men.

Maybe you are seeing them.

So he actually got pushed into a manic episode because of his interaction with ChatGPT, which is AI, and he has admitted that this is what pushed him over the cliff.

I guess I go back to the notion of like, why is the regulation on this soap?

I mean, I guess if I'm, if I'm chat GPT or any, I don't look, I don't use AI.

I really don't.

I would say it's, it's a part of our lives and Google.

The only time I really ever use it is when you, when you Google a question, it'll come up with an AI answer immediately, but then I almost always check the sources because I want to make sure that's correct.

I should say I always check this I don't almost always but like I check the sources like I like you do on Wikipedia you check the references right right but I feel like it's in these companies best interests to want to regulate or want to put on safeguards because does it make their product any less valuable

If they do that if if they if chat gpt I'm just gonna use them as the example because they're right there if they say We are going to do safety enhancements and we're going to put up safeguards that will allow us to monitor certain things and you know They can access the stuff all the time and they can build these systems and processes Will that send their stock price plummeting if they do that and if so

Why?

I'm actually asking this as a question because I don't know enough about these companies to know it, but it seems like it does more good and adds more value to you as a corporation to say we have this technology and we're going to make sure it's safe versus just

Good

luck.

Yeah, I agree.

Yeah, good luck.

Navigate it and don't don't believe everything you see.

Yeah, exactly.

It's not all true.

You're right.

It would be a great PR move.

Yes.

For an AI company to say, yes, we we want to continue to develop.

We want to continue to, you know, use these systems.

But we are going to be conscientious about making sure that you are getting accurate information.

I think that would be I think that would be great.

for companies, I don't know why they wouldn't do that.

Tony clarifies on the live stream too, we were talking about this gentleman who is having delusions and got on chat GPT to the point where it pushed him into a manic episode.

Tony says at first chat GPT will tell you that whatever it is is not likely, but if you push it, it will cave in and say, yep, you must be right.

What's wrong with guardrails, Mike?

Be careful when you deal with AI.

Just saying.

Are guardrails woke?

There's the question.

When we return, Mike Johnson shut down the house to avoid Jeffrey Epstein, who is still dead.

All the details coming up.

You're listening to Mant and Air on Air.

This is the Civic Media Radio Network.

Good morning.

Welcome.

Welcome to Matt Nair on air.

Jane Matt Nair and Greg Bach coming to you live from Civic Media's world headquarters here on State Street in downtown Madison.

We have our resident young person Calvin back at Radio Park in Racine handling the board and also Dom is here in Madison.

So doing double board duty today.

Yeah,

we got lots of help.

Thank you everybody for giving us a hand as we are on the road.

We had a little meeting yesterday.

Yeah.

Got to see people.

Got to see people.

We don't normally get to see live.

Yeah, exactly.

As Maggie Dawn put it, 3D people in 3D.

So like

I didn't even require glasses.

That's a very old reference.

But you know, hey, you know.

And tomorrow, what happened during yesterday's meeting, actually after the meeting, I should say, is going to be the audio sorbet for tomorrow.

OK.

I couldn't find my car in the parking lot.

I walked around for 40 minutes yesterday after a meeting.

I could not find my car.

Make

him, make him.

You'll find out more.

More.

We'll have more details.

More details on that.

But I posits that I am not the only person who has not been able to find.

Don't look at me like that.

Who hasn't been able to find their car in a parking lot.

So we'll talk about it tomorrow on audio sorbet.

But if you would like to.

reassure me that I'm not insane.

I'd appreciate it if you join us tomorrow at 10 30.

You know

what I'll do is I'll start I'll start getting on AI right now and chat GPT and just saying is Jane crazy for not being and by the time tomorrow comes that the AI will be like

Not only is she not crazy, but many people,

many, many

people have not been able to find their

car in garages.

See, and in that case, I completely agree with AI.

That is my AI voice.

Like it.

I like it.

That's all coming up tomorrow, but Jim Santel, our...

We are he makes us lawyer adjacent.

Yes, Jim Santel is a former US attorney and is still an acting attorney and Normally he joins us at this spot, but he had a case come up this morning So he wasn't able to make it but we were gonna kick this around with him and we would like to hear from you too as always at 855-752-4842 the Epstein saga continues and Speaker of the House Mike Johnson

in order to avoid bringing any votes up that would require the release of the Epstein files.

Rather than do that, Mike Johnson shut down the house.

So they're all going heading home to their home districts now.

Dismissed class early.

Don't worry about a quiz today, folks.

Just go home and have a great weekend.

This is I. Why do I get upset about this?

when it seems to be something they get to do whenever they want.

They get to change the goal

lines.

Change the rules.

Change the rules.

End Congress early to get out of being held responsible.

Being held accountable.

Actually, not even held responsible, Jane.

I'm sorry.

I mean held responsible just making a decision saying yes or no we saw we've been seeing this for the past few months regarding the budget they get they get these they get these department heads in front of them and Congress asks them specific questions do you believe in X and they say I'll have to check on that

I'll get back to

you

I'm

not sure or they give some bloviating answer that doesn't mean anything just to show they didn't do their homework and this is a just another example

People people on the right want this.

Oh, yes.

What that file?

Release release to the people who deserve it, who have been promised it for years.

And what does Mike Johnson do?

So let me just go home.

Just go home.

Do we have a clip from the speaker of those?

We have a clip from CBS Sunday morning where Mike Johnson is being asked about the Epstein file.

And I don't know.

It's one of the weirdest.

It's not that's that's hyperbole.

But the way he

Speaks about the Epstein file and then just sort of says what Calvin can you play that clip?

Point when the Trump Justice Department said there were more than 1,000 victims for people who knew this case very very well did a lot of investigative work on it that number surprised them high High number.

Yeah,

meaning that to their minds investigative reporters and others there have to be accomplices Uncharged accomplices and that aspect of justice is still missing.

Yes, and it's a great

concerned to us.

We want full transparency.

We want everybody who is involved in any way with the Epstein evils, let's call it what it was, to be brought to justice as quickly as possible.

We want the full weight of the law on their heads.

But when the Justice Department said in that same two-page memo, there's no reason to pursue further prosecutions, many said, how can those two things be properly aligned?

These are good questions.

I don't know.

I've never seen the Epstein evidence.

It wasn't in my brain.

But I have the same concern and question that a lot of people do.

And look, I think the president... This is not a hoax, in other words.

Oh, it's not a hoax.

Of course not.

Oh!

Oh, it's not.

Jane, Jane, the Epstein evils... God, I really hate it when they do stuff like that.

The Epstein files aren't of my... I don't know anything about it, Jane.

It's not my lane.

You know what I'm gonna do?

I'm gonna kick out of work early.

I'm gonna head back to my home state, and I'm really gonna think about it.

Well, every time they say this...

I haven't seen the tweet.

I haven't seen the comments.

I didn't see that article.

It's like members of Congress must be the worst informed people on the planet.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

The vast majority of the public knows about it.

And Mike Johnson's like, oh, I don't know.

La, la, la.

Really?

Yeah.

It's not mine.

You are the third most powerful person in the United States government.

You have your own secret service detail.

You are

privy to files that almost nobody can see and a non military status.

You're telling me that you just know

Nothing about you're telling me that all your time when you had access to these things You didn't say to someone what no actually he didn't because he thinks this is plausible Denial ability, but really it just makes him look inept

and stupid Well, it doesn't this isn't a good look and as you said it's not just Democrats who would like to see this released It is many many maga who as you pointed out They were promised this mm-hmm

that Trump administration going in promised that they were going to expose all the people because again, the assumption being that there's only Democrats on the list, that seems not to be the case.

Well, and this is where it gets,

it's going to get real dicey over the next few days.

And really, like the next today is going to be very deciding because the DOJ is meeting with

with her

Maxwell and what's been so when

Pam Bondi who by the I'll say it again.

I don't like her.

I don't like her style.

I don't like her lies.

But I do have a sliver of empathy for when she was handed the piece of paper that just said, make this go away.

I don't want that.

I wouldn't want a job.

But when she made that announcement that said there's nothing to see here.

Good.

Good.

No files.

There's no

files.

There was never files.

I don't even know who Jeffrey Epstein was.

When she did that.

It was pretty overwhelming that people were upset and they were saying, we want this.

But what has happened over the past, what, week?

Week and a half, two weeks since this happened?

The narrative has been changed by politicians, by influencers, by many people who had the ear of the president's audience for a while saying, you know what, I'm over Epstein.

We need to move on.

It's not important.

That is growing and growing.

And kind of like what we were talking about with AI, they're going to rewrite the history where Epstein was actually not as important as we thought.

He's not that big of a deal.

The Democrats made too big a deal of this.

And people who say they were mega, who aren't mega, we're making too big a deal about this.

No, this is, and to the gentleman, I don't know his name, who in the CBS morning interview.

talking about something we don't really discuss in this matter is the justice.

These survivors who have been trafficked and they deserve justice.

Their families deserve

justice.

And that's what the ultra-right has been talking about for years now.

But here we are, once again, being able to rewrite the narrative however they see fit.

Congress, we don't need to do this, go

home.

House Speaker Mike Johnson said Tuesday he's sending his House members back to their districts until September to avoid political games related to this bipartisan effort to get the government to release the files on Epstein Epstein of course a Florida sex offender trafficker who died by suicide in 2019 while he was awaiting trial on federal sex trafficking charges and you mentioned Greg that

the Delfart of Justice is meeting with Ghislaine Maxwell this morning.

That's what I've seen online so far this morning.

And Tim Burchette, who is a Republican from Tennessee, essentially said, if she gives us the things that we like, we'll cut a deal with her.

Yes,

yes.

And that is, that's the thing that really makes me sick to my stomach because it was never about

It was never about justice.

It was never about trying to find the culprit or trying to get to the bottom of the of the crime.

What information is what I'm going to ask a question.

What information is she going to give?

I know the answer to that one.

It was her and Jeffrey Epstein.

They were the ones in charge of this.

This was not a criminal conspiracy going beyond that, I believe.

Oh, there were a whole bunch of people that helped this happen.

It helped it happen.

But they're the top of the

list.

Yes.

So she can't give any other names because the other guy is dead.

And after that, it's only about people who participated most likely.

They just want her to say,

Donald Trump was never anywhere near it.

Exactly.

He was never on the island.

He was never on the plane.

He never went to a party.

Even though there are

pictures saying otherwise.

Repeat numerous pictures.

They just want him to, they want her in a room on on record to say Donald Trump had nothing to do with this.

And then you get to walk out saying, we told you so.

And that is where the current narrative that's being pushed by various people within MAGA who don't want this list out are going to be like.

told you.

See, she said it.

Yeah,

she told us.

Elaine said Trump was never involved.

It's all good.

Nothing to see here.

Let's go on with our days.

855-752-4842.

If you would like to join our conversation, you can call and or text Casper here in Madison listening on WAU case as MAGA is not going to let this go.

For heaven's sakes, they're still talking about Hillary's

emails.

That's true.

Really quick, I just want to mention something I said that I couldn't remember his name, so I wanted to look at that because I always want to give credit to the journalists who are doing the reporting.

Major Garrett was the one

who was

in that interview with House Speaker Mike Johnson, asking very simple questions about what are we going to do about this, the justice for those who have been involved, and why?

Why do you not know anything about this?

Well, I don't know anything about this file.

Well, you just said in the previous sentence, we need to do something about this.

But now you know nothing about it.

What's going on?

It's called runaway.

Yeah, it's called it's called runaway.

Literally, they're running away from the Capitol.

So they don't have to deal with this.

I mean, this is this is childish.

Well, actually, I take that

back.

It's politics.

Children are more responsible than this.

Well, and what's interesting now, there is a bipartisan effort.

Republican Thomas Massey of Kentucky has joined California Democrat Representative Ro Khanna spearheading an effort to force a vote.

on releasing what are commonly referred to as the Epstein files.

This move, called a discharge petition, could be ready for the floor in September if Massey and Kana can get enough signatures from a majority of members.

And as Casper said too, this isn't going away.

And I think them trying to divert and send everybody home

hoping this will die, that's just feeding the flames.

And that's this, that's not, it's not a good look.

It's not.

And but that is where it, that is where it is up to us in the media, up to the people who want answers on both sides of the aisle to never let up, never let the narrative be so rewritten that you believe them because this is what we've wanted.

This is what we are owed and it can't go away.

It can't.

And I don't care who is on that list.

Period.

Thank you for saying that.

Yes.

If you're on that list,

Justice should be coming.

We're gonna continue this, stay close, 855-752-4842.

You are listening to Matin' Air on Air on the vast statewide, countrywide, pick us up around the world on the app, the Civic Media Radio Network.

Good, good morning.

Welcome.

Welcome to Mattenair on Air.

Jane Mattenair, Greg Bach, coming to you live from Civic Media's...

world headquarters here on State Street in downtown Madison.

We have the Board Lord Calvin back at Radio Park in Racine and Domus here as well in Madison helping us pull this off today.

You can always join us, call or text at 855-752-4842 or leave a comment if you're watching on the live stream on Facebook, YouTube and what used to be Twitter next hour at this time right about an hour from now.

about the show as we always do with this shouldn't be a thing.

Today it's the underwear edition.

If you ever have a thing you think should not be, send it into Greg and me at janesaysatcivicmedia.us, J-A-N-E-S-A-Y-S, janesaysatcivicmedia.us.

That's coming up again about an hour from now, 10.52-ish or so.

We were talking about

Jelaine Maxwell, the Epstein files, all of that going on.

She is meeting with a Department of Justice attorney this morning.

I don't know who else is going to be there to witness this.

I mean, I imagine it's either just going to be the two of them or it's going to be a group of individuals who know.

I know I sound very conspiracy theory right now, but at this point I am being led to a place where I will accept... I will accept nothing as the truth unless she says, yeah, he was on the plane, he was at the parties, and let me tell you, there are way more.

Strap in and hit record, but...

That's not what's going to happen.

Well,

no, it's not what's going to happen.

And Lori from Hayward texted in and she's got a really good point.

Jane, why they may get Ms.

Maxwell to testify, they can't be guaranteed she's going to tell the truth.

She told lies during her trial.

She was reprimanded for that.

So basically like Trump, you can't believe a word she says.

You're not wrong.

Either she's going to.

I think they're going to come in and say, sign this, say, you never saw Trump, Trump

never

met Epstein, even though there's tons of pictures of them and videotapes and all those things.

Uh, yeah, just, just do that.

And then you're good to go and we'll cut, you know, we'll cut 15 years off your sentence.

Which then leads me to the question of if they ever try to release the Epstein files, they're going to have to go in and change them.

they're gonna have to alter them, which is, I believe a crime, but there is no version of this I will believe unless she comes out and says, yeah, I'm gonna tell you all the names and it includes your boss.

That's not what's going to happen.

I don't think she's gonna settle for time off either.

I think she's gonna be like, I walk out of here today.

You give me the stuff I came in here with and I'm going home today and I will tell you exactly what you want because it's exactly what you need and you tell the people whatever they need to hear.

I don't care.

I still have property in South Florida, most likely, and I'll live my life and you make it go away.

This isn't my problem.

It will be interesting.

I mean, Representative Tim Bershet, again, a Republican from Tennessee, is suggesting that Republicans would push for a lighter sentence for Maxwell if they agree.

with her upcoming testimony.

Oh, okay.

Of course.

So that's not just saying, tell us what we want and then we'll get you out.

Yeah.

Essentially.

Yes, exactly.

And what I have read just in the last couple of days for the survivors of Epstein, they want Maxwell to stay where she is.

They see her as just as culpable in this as Jeffrey Epstein was.

Yeah, yes, she is she was the procurer and there is something especially egregious about a woman who will do that to other women Tragically, I think women aren't surprised when men exploit them.

I think sometimes it's a surprise when you find out that other women will exploit you too

and the thing is is it unless she's gonna give up names on the list

There's no one else to give up as far as the organization is like they are the two high they were the two highest people there That was it like it was those two and then everybody fell under them and did their thing and whatever it's I'm gonna go back to what I said before is that we need to stay as a people as the media as the the electorate Right and left if you are on the if you are a mega Republican who voted for Donald Trump because you wanted the Epstein files to be released

Don't give up that fight.

There are people who you vehemently disagree with who have your back on this.

They want justice too.

They want to know the names and I will say it forever.

If there is someone on that file that I enjoy, that I buy their records or I watch their movies and they're on that list, let justice find them.

I don't, I will never excuse any of them.

All of them are culpable if they're on that list.

And this is a moment where we can be united

to find justice for all of these survivors.

And there are lots of them.

There are many, many survivors.

And probably thousands more that we'll never know

about.

Women who

are just never gonna come forward.

Bruce from Green Bay, listening on WGBW, texting in, Maxwell is the perpetrator that we need to testify to Congress on Epstein's crimes and have the victims testify.

Not a partisan negotiated pardon that is favorable to Epstein.

Absolutely.

This needs to

be

honest.

And I think there are some survivors who would be more than willing to do that.

Not all of them wanna come and relive this horrific experience.

But I think there are enough of them who would do that instead of some closed door meeting between the Department of Justice and Maxwell.

What nothing, what could possibly go wrong?

I think she should pull.

Honestly, I know that that would never go over.

This would never happen.

But do what Hunter Biden did.

He said, I'll meet with you.

We're going to public.

Yes.

You're not closing the doors.

We're going to talk to the people of America.

Yes.

If she wants to get in front and testify in front of Congress, I'm all for it.

Oh, yeah.

Absolutely.

But that will.

Never happen.

News is coming up next and then we hear so much about Medicaid fraud.

You know what?

We found some.

You did?

Yes.

We did it everybody knows

works.

It's not necessarily where you would expect.

All the details are coming up.

Stay close.

You are listening to Matt Nair on air.

This is the Civic Media Radio Network.

I'm going.

Good morning.

Welcome.

Welcome to that near on air.

Jane that near Greg Bach coming to you live from the civic media world headquarters here overlooking State Street in downtown Madison.

We got Calvin Butenoff back in Racine at Radio Park Manning the board.

Dom is also here in Madison making sure we don't break anything.

They're the they're either the board

lords or the board Lord

knows the board

Lord's

the board Lord's

darn it.

Yeah.

Dom, you're now a board lord, too.

Yes, you can always join us at 855-752-4842 or leave a comment if you're watching in the live stream on Facebook, YouTube, and what used to be Twitter coming up in about 15 minutes.

The wakeboarding, wakeboat controversy continues in Wisconsin.

It is

a big thing.

I didn't know it was a thing, and then it became a thing, and now it's a bigger thing.

It is a bigger thing, so I would love to hear your opinion on this.

If you live on the lake, I know a lot of folks do.

Would you say that this thing is causing waves?

I would.

Thank you.

But make him

happy.

Do you have a rim shot or something?

I made Dom put his hand on his face.

Make Greg feel good?

Nope.

Let me.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Appreciate that.

I'm here all week.

I'm just actually here today.

Don't miss it.

Wakeboarding, wake boating rather.

We'll kick that around in about 15 minutes.

I would love to hear your opinion on this.

A lot of people hate him.

A lot of people do not like the wake boats.

So we'll, we'll kick that around after 1030.

We're going to talk to sports with probably one of the hardest working sports reporters in the country, Mike Clemens,

who's on, he lives on the road.

He's on the road all the time.

I was going to say, I don't think I've ever called him when he is, and he says the following, following words.

Hey, Greg, I'm at home.

Never.

He's never at home.

He's always in his car.

He's always in his car.

So we're going to be talking to Mike.

He's up at the Packers training camp, which is going on this week.

So Mike will be joining us after 10 30.

And then we'll wrap up the show as we always do with this shouldn't be a thing.

Today it is the underwear edition.

So stick around for that.

Did want to talk about Medicaid fraud.

It's a big concern.

All these people ripping off Medicaid

so that people who

deserve it can't get it.

Yeah, we found a.

a big fraud case.

What's their name?

I'll go to their house and knock on their door.

Miami Duo, sentenced in $20 million health care fraud scheme.

$6 million in assets have been seized.

A Miami couple sentenced in a sweeping health care fraud and money-longering case involving, and we've heard this before, fake medical claims, illegal kickbacks.

Some luxury buys, well, you know.

Everyone needs

a boat.

You want a boat?

Yeah, a boat of nice villa somewhere.

The U.S.

Department of Justice said federal agents have now recovered more than $6 million in forfeited assets from this couple, one sentenced to nine years in prison for conspiracy to commit healthcare fraud.

Her ex-husband...

Gee, they didn't make it through this.

Those crazy kids, what a shame.

They couldn't survive.

Her ex-husband got a three-year sentence for conspiracy to commit money laundering.

She was a registered nurse.

Yeah,

I mean, I have to imagine that to do, well, to perpetrate a fraud on this level.

You can't just wake up one day at me as Greg Bach, who has nothing to do with the medical industry.

You don't know that the system don't know the system don't know any people, nothing.

I is it impossible for me to do it?

No, but I would have to find people in the industry.

And yeah, if you are a nurse or a doctor, you already have an in you, you have the ability to access and understand because one of the biggest thing the biggest thing about Medicaid fraud is the coding.

Yes.

The medical coding that's involved in getting the payment for Medicaid is, you know how to do that.

That's half the battle in my opinion.

I would have to, I have to imagine, like I said, I don't know anything about medical coding.

I certainly don't know anything about Medicaid fraud.

I've never done it.

But we always hear this narrative, Jane, about

All these people Jane.

All these lazy people.

They just don't want to work great on their butts not working.

Yeah video games.

They watch six point one hours of television and

which in case you missed it last week, somebody picked that out of the sky.

Some Republican RFK

Junior

always Bob Junior.

Yeah, I mean, people who are not working on Medicaid are watching six point one hours of television where they got that number from.

I would love to know.

And

It always bears repeating.

That's not to say that individuals aren't finding ways to game the system.

Absolutely.

But when we look at massive amounts of fraud, when we look at massive amounts of money, this is not, you know, this is not me at home in my basement, clicking a button saying, there we go, I get more Medicaid.

For one thing, for one thing, that's people.

Okay.

This is where we need to talk about the narrative of Medicaid in the first place.

People do not get a Medicaid check.

Right.

You are not getting money from we're

not sending

checks to individuals.

That's not how Medicaid works.

So what they're saying is lazy people on Medicaid Well, oh my gosh, they're going to the doctor so much on the that's this is not like unemployment insurance where Yes, you could probably game the system on that and you're gonna get money directly deposited in your account But these are people who have medical coverage and The monies the physical money what we're talking about here

it's through the businesses they're the ones and they're the ones doing it at at tens of millions if not billions of

dollars big numbers uh this nurse was also the owner of pro med health care came up with a scheme that filed over 20 million dollars in fraudulent insurance claims

from 2019 to 2023, the clinic falsely billed for all kinds of things, braces, therapy sessions, mental health services, many of which were never provided.

Investigators, when they started looking into this, into the medical records, they were filled with typos, identical patient quotes,

copied across dozens of files to come up with these fictitious patients and these fictitious treatments.

You have to build a network.

It's not just pressing a button.

It sounds like it's a job.

Really, it does,

though.

And let's use the reference also of now Senator, former governor.

Florida Rick Scott who was the CEO of Columbia HCA and stepped down because he was involved in a multi billion with a B dollar Medicaid fraud where they had to pay the government back 1.7 billion dollars billion and they the activity included inflating diagnoses offering kickback to doctors who offered referrals and filing wait for it false

cost reports.

No, that's how you do it.

And again, when they want to paint, whenever those who want to cut Medicaid want to paint the picture, they always do it with the brush of lazy Americans, taking your money, taking away yours, you've earned this, they're takers, you're a maker.

When really it's the CEOs and these companies that are doing it, they are the giant perpetrators of it.

And and a lot of times they walk away.

Rick Scott walked away.

No, they, they, they, he, all, he had, they just sign a check and they had, and he had to step down.

Oh boy.

That's called

justice.

The, uh, head of the Florida Democratic Party says Rick Scott is saying Democrats are committing, committing Medicare robbery when in fact he is the ultimate Medicare thief.

He lost the right to accuse Democrats of raiding Medicare when he oversaw the largest Medicare fraud in the country's history.

That's not.

a lie.

No, it's not a lie.

That's not a lie.

That happened.

Yep, that happened.

And nobody went to jail.

They got to settle, write a check.

Everyone went home to their big houses.

Right.

By the way, those big houses partly paid for by you and me with our Medicaid money.

Yeah.

And, you know, it's, I believe, I mean, I would like to say we're talking about this because you, the listener, don't ever, don't ever give into

the narratives that they try to make where they try to pit you against Americans.

When we talk about able-bodied Americans, they love to say able-bodied people on Medicaid.

Well, if you do literally half a Google search, able-bodied people on Medicaid usually means these are people who have jobs.

I think about 67% of able-bodied

people on Medicaid under the age of 65 are working.

They have a part-time or full-time job.

And those jobs, guess what?

Don't offer quality healthcare or offer no healthcare.

In the case of another company, big company that gets lots of tax breaks, Rhymes with Schmallmart, they tell their employees, go on your state Medicaid program like BadgerCare.

So we don't have to pay for it.

Exactly.

So these are folks who are working.

And they don't want a quote handout.

We want them to have good health care.

We want their companies to say, we're going to spend a little extra money to take care of our people.

But that's not the case.

So instead, what those who want to cut Medicaid do, they say, well, it's lazy Americans who are ruining your life.

And we need to cut Medicaid.

I'm sorry.

We need to save Medicaid.

That's what it is.

We need to ensure Medicaid.

Right.

That's what it is.

It's all just about the wording.

It's all about making it sound nice and comfy for you.

And in fact, your Medicaid's getting cut, period.

But I think.

you

make a really good point about othering other Americans.

And this relates to the Epstein files as well.

I would imagine that most of us agree, no matter where you are in the political spectrum, that the rich and powerful should be held to the same standards as the rest of us.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yes.

Instead of getting their own entirely different justice system, which is kind of.

What it

feels like absolutely because because they have them that we live now live in a society where not only do companies have the monetary funds to

pay off a settlement.

They work it into the, into the agreement that they don't ever have to even take responsibility or admit any wrongdoing, which is amazing.

No wrong, no jail time, no, and this all, I mean, I'm, this goes far back before it, but really the thing for me that opened my eyes was the economic collapse of 2008 where only one person out of hundreds of bad actors with some low level, nobody essentially went to jail.

Yeah.

He didn't orchestrate this, but no one went to jail for it.

And not only that, the companies who orchestrated it, the companies who were a part of this, got money from us, got our money so they could buy a

12th boat.

Miami Herald reported at one time that Rick Scott had said he would have immediately stopped his company from committing Medicare fraud if only somebody told me something was wrong.

The Miami Herald says there were warnings in the company's annual public reports, which Scott had to sign off on as CEO.

Again, it's the whole, oh, I didn't see the tweet.

I didn't get the report.

I don't know what it said.

I'm so busy.

I don't know.

It's not my lane.

It's not my lane.

It's not

my lane that I should be overseeing to find out if my company is facilitating Medicare fraud.

Oh my God.

We just let it happen to Jane like as an American people We are so inundated with news and our own lives and I'm sorry I don't mean to say it like it's a blame thing I'm part of it But this thing of we're so outraged right now.

We're so upset about it But tomorrow we have to deal with something else so we can't even go back to it because and that's what they count on they count on our lives progressing forward So therefore we don't have to say hey what happened to that?

person who built Medicaid for tens of millions of dollars, why aren't they in jail?

Instead, they're like, I got to pick my kid up from soccer practice.

But that's why we that we have these conversations, because these have knock on effects on our badger care system on our on our government.

Yes.

Tony in the live stream says, hey, those wealthy people paid very handsomely to fund their own judicial system.

You are not wrong, Tony.

They got their own school system now.

They're getting their own judicial system.

Maybe we should just get them a private president about their own country.

When we return Mars, wake boats, controversy continues.

Stay close.

You are listening to Matt near on air coming to across the civic media radio network.

Good morning and welcome back to Matt Nair on air.

Jane Matt Nair, Greg Bott coming to you live from Civic Media's World Headquarters here on State Street in downtown Madison.

Calvin is back at Radio Park in Racine running the board and Dom is here as well in Madison, helping to make sure we don't break anything before Todd Alba gets back.

He's on the road.

Todd's in Green Bay today.

I love when Todd's on the road.

It's so much fun.

Also, Calvin.

We want to talk of Mike Clemens, by the way, is going to be joining us.

Civic Media's hardest working sports reporter on the planet, along with Chad Holmes,

who loves Jimmy Cosco and

Jimmy Cosco.

We have such hardworking people in our news department and our sports team.

But Mike Clemens is up in Green Bay as well for a Packers training camp.

He is going to join us after 1030 so we can talk a little sports.

And I'm sure the Brewers will come up as well.

10 to 2 victory last night against the Seattle Mainers.

Speaking of the

Brewers, tomorrow is free ticket Friday.

If

you would like to see arguably the hottest team in baseball right now,

you need to download

the Civic Media app.

So what's going to happen tomorrow, starting with Pat Crite low at six AM.

Pat will give you a keyword that you want to text in via the Civic Media app.

Greg and I will have a new word for you from nine to 11, then Tom Hartman, 11 to two.

Same with Todd from two to four and Maggie Dawn from four to six.

You want to text in that keyword.

the app and then you're going to be in the running for a four pack of tickets to see the Milwaukee Brewers in club level seats.

They're good tickets.

Those are comfy seats.

They're cushy seats.

There is carpeting in the hallways.