The Plane! The Plane! (Hour 2)

Good, good morning.

Welcome.

Welcome to Matt Nair on air.

Jane Matt Nair, Greg Bach and Calvin Butenoff coming to you live from our studio at Radio Park in Racine.

You can always join us, call or text no matter where you're listening.

The number is the same 855-752-4842.

Leave a comment if you're watching on the live stream on Facebook, YouTube, and what used to be Twitter.

It's Thursday, so we have a jam-packed show coming your way.

Our friend and colleague and host of Amicus, a law review across the network on Saturdays from 9 until 11.

Jim Santel will be here after the 9.30 news.

We will talk about the latest in the Judge Hannah Dugan case here in Milwaukee.

Also, the Supreme Court is going to be hearing arguments about birthright citizenship.

Yeah, we talked about that early in the morning and I had a question for Jeff Mandela of Law 4.

It was along the same lines.

We had the conversation with Judge Michelle

yesterday.

So that's coming up after 9 30 in hour number two.

We're going to talk a little bit about the plane, the plane, but then Brittney Merleau, a Civic Media's meteorologist, multi-award winner, joining us at 10.20 for a little weather and wine.

Journal Sentinel, sports guru JR Radcliffe, joining us to talk all things sports after 10.30.

And then we'll wrap up the show as we always do with this shouldn't be a thing.

Today it's the off the top of my head edition.

Stick around for that.

Lots of things coming up today.

We wanted to start off though.

I noticed this this morning as I was driving in, in the fog, which was really bad.

It

was, it was one of those fogs where, so there's a big giant lighted billboard, like a digital billboard out of my way in and it's big and it's bright.

And it was one of those things where I couldn't see it at all.

The lighted billboard itself,

until I was like 100 feet

away from it.

It was

so dense.

Yeah, it was really thick.

And we do have weather coming our way a little bit later on today.

Brittany Merlot will give us an update about that next hour, but they're talking about very high winds and the potential for some strong thunderstorms.

So just keep that in mind.

I don't know if you're like me, but I've been getting some stuff outside and decorations outside.

And I'll probably have to go home and take down all the things that I hung up yesterday.

It

happens every

year.

You're like, I planted

my

flowers and

they're freezing.

I know.

Yeah.

So, uh, but yes, we have a little weather coming our way, but gas prices are up over three bucks.

Yeah.

Last time I filled up, it was like two 79.

And this morning as I was coming in,

It was 309.

Yes.

That's the one I saw.

I wasn't expecting that.

I don't know why.

Um, I mean, that, honestly, that's, you know, once again, we're not going to blame the people in the, the big chair in the old, because as Mr. Global, Matt Randolph has said that that has very little to do with anything, but I would love to have him back on to ask him about fluctuations.

And I think he may have said that this is the time when.

gas is going to start to go up because it's spring time,

summertime.

It's heading into summer.

Yeah.

Love how they do that to us.

And, but also if we should be on the lookout for any deals happening now, that will affect us down the road.

Later.

Um, yeah.

So gas prices are up.

And now, according to CNN, Walmart is warning it is going to be raising prices because of the tariffs.

Walmart CEO, duck McMillan says, quote, we'll do our best to keep our prices as low as possible.

But given the magnitude of the tariffs, even at the reduced levels announced, we aren't able to absorb all the pressure given the reality of narrow retail margins.

Higher tariffs will result in higher prices.

Jane, didn't he say lower prices on day one?

Yeah.

Okay, cool.

Pretty much.

However, egg

prices are down.

Yeah.

Egg prices are finally down.

Egg prices fell 12.7% last month.

The biggest monthly drop since 1984.

I

mean, yeah.

I've been looking at egg prices, and that's wonderful.

And who do I at the White House give all the credit to?

Who in the big, is it the guy in the big chair?

Is it Bobby Kennedy, Jr.?

I don't know.

Why would

egg prices drop,

Jane?

The USDA says consumer prices finally fell as demand for eggs decreased.

Oh!

and avian flu cases have fallen.

So it doesn't sound like there's anything that the Trump administration did that actually affected the price of eggs.

So it wasn't in an executive

order?

No.

He didn't yell at the birds?

Just his magical presence did not help lower the cost of eggs, even though he said what, they were down 94%, which would make a dozen eggs like 35 cents.

Yeah.

They're still not 35 cents.

Isn't it

awesome how sometimes you can just

say words and they don't have to

mean anything.

Yeah.

Egg prices, though, still much higher now than they were before the latest for bird flu outbreak.

They cost 49.3 percent more last month than they did one year earlier.

And eggs are also still more expensive than when Trump took office.

Just wanted to throw that.

Just as as as my passive aggressive aunt would always say, just saying.

Well, it's a fact.

That's just what that is.

All right, we're going to move on to a hearing yesterday on Capitol Hill.

The head of the Health and Human Services, Robert Kennedy, Jr., was sort of answering questions, I guess.

Bob, Jr.

testifying before Congress for the first time as health secretary, and he said he does not think Americans should be, quote, taking medical advice from me.

The head of the health and human services says don't take advice from me.

I don't know what I'm talking about

Wait, no one should be taking advice from me either James.

Does that mean I can have the job?

You could be healthy.

Yes

Guys, it's

been fun.

This has been a great ride, but

I

got I got a job to get

I've got I've got more important things to do and back-to-back appearances before House and Senate committees yesterday Bob Kennedy, Jr a longtime critic of vaccination

Also made clear, he doesn't think the health secretary should be in the business of making vaccine recommendations.

He also ducked questions about whether if his children were young today, he would still inoculate them against measles, chickenpox or polio because we know that all his kids are vaccinated.

Yes, they are.

Yep.

Yep.

Yeah.

Do you believe we have a clip of Mark Pocan speaking to him about this matter specifically?

And as Matt Rothschild said this morning with the clip, he said, he's being Wisconsin nice.

Mark Pocan?

Oh, yeah.

Oh, good.

Calvin, do we have that clip?

Let's play that clip, please.

You had a child today.

Would you vaccinate that child for measles?

For measles.

probably for measles.

I, you know, what I would say is my opinions about vaccines are irrelevant.

I've directed J. Bottichara.

Sure.

No, like I said, I don't want to, so that everybody can make that decision.

But I, you know, I don't want to be seen like I'm being evasive.

Yeah.

But I don't think people should be taking advice, medical advice from

me.

Right, no,

I got that.

And I'm not asking you to give them advice,

but would you vaccinate your child for measles?

I think if I answer that question directly, that it will seem like I'm giving advice to other people, and I don't want to be doing that.

I want people to make that problem.

But that's kind of

your jurisdiction, because CDC does give advice,

right?

I'm not trying to

do it as a gotcha.

I was just

going

to...

Yeah, what I think what we're going to try to do is to lay out the pros and cons, the risks and benefits.

accurately as we understand them with replicable studies.

Can you talk about chickenpox?

Would you vaccinate your child against chickenpox?

Again, I don't want to give advice.

I can tell you in Europe they don't use the chickenpox vaccine specifically because the preclinical trial shows that when you inoculate the population for chickenpox, you get

Jingles in older people, which is

just one last one.

Just a yes or no, please be good polio

Polio Again, I don't want to be okay.

It's fair.

Okay.

Thanks.

Thanks for not doing it as a great You're not an expert and okay good

a couple of things one He doesn't want to say yes or no to a question about his hypothetical children because he doesn't want people to see him

as giving advice, even though for the past, I don't know how many decades he's been going anywhere that they will listen to him.

And he's been giving his advice, his very unjustified advice

on

various things.

Also, you are evading the questions because you're not answering these questions.

And third, and this was a one Google search victory for me.

And I'm going to read verbatim.

Yes, the chickenpox vaccine is given in Europe.

In many European countries, it is included in national childhood vaccination schedules.

Standalone varicella vaccines and combined MMRV vaccines, measles, mumps, rubella, and varicella are available in various countries.

So they just say they don't do it in Europe.

I mean, and I'm not qualified.

I mean, wow.

Yeah, it's kind of amazing.

Wow.

Mr. Kennedy insisted that he had managed the growing measles outbreak better than counterparts in other nations.

The measles outbreak, which started in West Texas, has killed two children and one adult unvaccinated.

And now more than 1,000 people in 30 states have the measles.

This was a this was a thing that was I don't want to say remedy.

That's not the word I'm looking for.

It was it was gone.

It was gone.

We had eradicated measles.

In 2000, we had eradicated measles.

And now it's back.

It's back.

And it's in states where I've seen Instagram videos of teachers, teachers, Jane, bragging that their kids aren't vaccinated.

One school in Texas.

It was a private school, and he was saying, we are the most unvaccinated school in Texas.

And they were celebrating this as a school, not as the teachers, not as one guy.

It was of the school.

They were proud of this fact.

And guess where the measles exploded in?

Texas.

Oh, yeah.

Mr. Kennedy has acknowledged vaccines are an effective way to prevent the spread of measles, but says people should be able to choose whether or not they get vaccinated.

Instead, Kennedy has promoted.

Alternative therapies, including cod liver oil, which contains vitamin A. That, in turn, is a remedy doctors said sick in some kids who took too much vitamin A. They were having liver problems.

Yeah, yeah.

Because everyone also, I mean, well, let me rephrase it.

I don't want to make a blanket statement like that.

I believe when people hear vitamin whatever, A, B, C, or D, you know, you think it's...

Oh, it's a vitamin.

It's good for me.

I'll take a little bit more.

But when you're taking so much of a vitamin that it's actually hurting you, and it's because people like him who is in a position of power, he's a Kennedy, he's the HHS secretary.

I'm sorry, but you don't get to stand in front of Mark Pokan and say, well, I don't want to give advice.

Don't take advice from me.

Sorry, that train left the station 25 years ago.

People have been taking your advice and using you as their poster boy for defending against vaccines.

Yes.

And you're right.

People should have the choice.

They do have the choice, but they still should do it because they're just the benefits are there.

Talk to older people who live through polio.

Talk to older people who had measles, which is more than just having spots all over your body.

Having measles can lead to very, very, very severe consequences.

Do you want your kids going through that?

I guess, I'm sorry, I'm afraid of that question.

Why would you want your kids to possibly go through that?

When we have a

safe and effective vaccine.

Is your point that great that you're going to sacrifice their safety?

I don't understand it, Jane.

Another thing I saw on social media not too long ago, you know, when they talk about the good old days back in the day, back in the day, we didn't have vaccines and it was just fine.

Walk through a cemetery.

Walk through a cemetery and look at the dates before 1960.

and look at the number of children who died in infancy.

Or before they reached their second birthday.

Just a thought.

You're looking for something to do this afternoon.

When we return, Tammy Baldwin.

Getting a little spicy.

That's on the way.

Stay close.

You're listening to Matt Nair on air.

This is the Civic Media Radio Network.

We'll be right back.

Good good morning.

Welcome.

Welcome to met and air on air Jane met and air Greg Bach and Dr. Slide on the board coming to you from our studio at radio park in Racine join us call her text at 855-752-4842 Leave a comment if you're watching on the live stream on Facebook YouTube and what used to be Twitter coming up after the 930 news Jim Santel

friend, colleague, lawyer, and host of Amicus Law Review on Saturdays across the network from 9 to 11.

He will be joining us.

We'll talk about the Judge Hannah Dugan case.

which there is action happening this morning.

Right now.

She just pled not guilty.

Yes, she entered that plea.

But we will be talking to Jim about that.

Also, Supreme Court is going to be hearing arguments about birthright citizenship.

That's happening right there.

He's listening to it right this moment.

Right this moment.

So we will talk about that with him as well.

Before we went to the break, we were talking about, don't take medical advice from me, Head of Health and Human Services, Bob Kennedy Jr.

yesterday.

the guy who said, make America healthy again.

Yeah.

But don't listen to me because I don't know what I'm talking about.

Uh, yeah.

And, uh, yeah, he just, uh, he's got thoughts, but not advice.

Yeah.

No, no, because he doesn't know.

I'm not going to tell you what to do.

Uh, Brian from Milwaukee has been waiting.

Good morning, Brian.

Did you want to say something about this?

Yeah.

I mean, the, what really shocks me is how the.

Mega Wright are behind all of Trump's appointees, including Kennedy, you know, Jr.

And for example, I think I stated this before, I have a friend who I've known most of my life since, you know, elementary school.

One of her sons is autistic and she's screaming for, you know, autistic research, yet she's a Mega Wright supporter who

also supports everything that they're doing, like polling, you know, and defunding autistic research.

And a lot of us called her out and said, honey, you can't have it both ways because, you know, either you're a mega Trump supporter or you're going to support your son.

Which one is it?

And, you know, what a lot of us have been saying is what is it going to take for the mega right to wake up?

You know, how bad does it have to get until they go, oh, my God.

You know, we need to stand up against this, you know, I mean, how much worse does this have to get?

Well, unfortunately, Brian, I think in some cases until it affects her personally and her child personally, she's not going to change when you asked her, you know, how do you feel?

How can you have this both ways?

What?

How does she respond to that?

There was no comment on Facebook from her about

it.

I got no, I got she had no response.

And thank you very much, Brian.

Thanks,

Brian.

And that's a lot.

I mean, we get

We get that, and I get that on social media and the text lines where you respond back with verified information and there's no, and that's the thing is we want the conversation.

Tell us why you support these things when they can have a detrimental effect.

And absolutely, Jane, that's exactly the words I was going to say.

It's not going to affect people's opinions until, and unfortunately it might have disastrous

consequences for them.

So.

We're seeing this with some Trump supporters.

who are married to immigrants.

Who are getting deported.

And

I can't remember the exact details, but a woman was held up, she was put away, put in jail for being illegally here because she had overstayed

her visa.

And after it was all said and done, she was released, they were reunited.

They both defended the policies.

So maybe Jane we're wrong it's not even that case because and I don't like saying this often But it really does beg the question of okay.

Is this actually cultish behavior?

Because when you cannot turn your back on dear leader even when it has affected you like that What will it take?

It's a very good question.

Tell me Baldwin going back to yesterday.

Yeah, just

briefly Tammy Baldwin was talking to again don't take my medical advice the health of human services Bob Kennedy, Jr About lead.

Yeah, and the lead problem in Milwaukee public schools.

We've shut down six schools 1800 kids Displaced because of lead problems in these schools.

Do we have time to play that clip Calvin?

We have two of them.

We have to let's play that first clip from Tammy Baldwin if we could please

Secretary Kennedy, I want to start with what I hope is an easy question for you.

Do you think lead poisoning in children is a significant concern?

Is lead poisoning

in children a significant concern?

It's a extremely significant

concern.

Thank you.

Then I would like to know why your department has effectively shut down the very program to address lead poisoning in children.

The city of Milwaukee requested assistance from the CDC to help the city respond to lead poisoning cases tied to public schools.

Six schools have been closed, displacing more than 1,800 school children.

A lot of kids.

The request for federal assistance was denied because of lack of staff.

The entire childhood lead poisoning branch has been fired.

In the words of a Milwaukee mom, it really sends a message of, you don't matter.

I don't know what you would say to parents who must now test their children for lead and deal with school closures.

But do you intend to eliminate this branch at CDC, yes or no?

No, we do not.

Okay.

Because you cannot tell us that you want to make America healthy again when you are willfully

destroying programs that keep children safe and healthy from lead poisoning.

Congress dedicated $51 million in funding for this particular program.

But when a community asks for help to prevent lifelong complications for children, and there is no one there to pick up the phone, and it's not because this program is ineffective, it's because you fired the entire team whose job it is to support communities like Milwaukee.

There was, in that video, there's a person wearing a Make America Healthy Again hat, and what we were just talking about, I want to know what that person's thinking as they're hearing this information.

If their belief is to make it all healthy, how does that affect their thinking on the topics then?

That's

what I want to know.

We have news coming up next, and then when we return, we're going to talk all things law with Jim Santel.

Stay with us.

You were listening to Matt Nair on air on the Civic Media Radio

Network.

Good morning.

Welcome back to Mattnare on Air.

Jane Mattnare, Greg Bach, Dr. Slide on the board coming to you from our studio at Radio Park in Racine where you can always join us, call or text.

The number is the same 855-752.

4-842.

Leave a comment if you're watching on the live stream on Facebook, YouTube and what used to be Twitter.

It's Thursday and you heard that little Dave Brubeck take five leading into us.

That means Jim Santel is here, our friend, colleague and host of Amicus Law Review Saturdays.

from 9 to 11 across the civic media radio network, also a former U.S.

attorney and an acting attorney, which is why we like to say

we are

attorney adjacent here at Matt Nair on air.

Lots of things to talk about, Jim.

I wanted to talk, first of all, about the case with Judge Hannah

Dugan here in Milwaukee.

Yes, absolutely.

So

there were some developments

even already this morning.

Absolutely.

So she appeared this morning in Federal District Court 517, East Wisconsin.

And that's the federal courthouse.

That's the Eastern District of Wisconsin.

And once again, a federal prosecution following the return by the grand jury

a day or so ago of an indictment against her.

Nothing surprising about that.

Constitution says if you're going to be charged federally, you got to be charged by an indictment.

That's what she is responding to.

For those who are into the nice procedural aspects of this, it means the government does not have to go forward with a probable cause hearing this morning.

This is again, just in the form of an arraignment and a plea.

She is pled not guilty to...

both counts, the judge setting up some scheduling on what goes forward here.

The case has been assigned to Judge Lynn Adelman, who is a federal district court judge, and now we're off.

And that includes the other significant thing that you're making reference to, Jane, is the filing very immediately after this grand jury indictment of a motion to dismiss.

Right.

Now, some tidbits I've been seeing on the web, Jim, have said that Judge Dugan and her legal team are taking

something right out of a Trump playbook.

Yes.

As far as using something that they used essentially for their own defense.

Absolutely.

Can you explain that?

It just drips from the four or five page motion.

It is readable, it's accessible.

And one of the two arguments that they're making, Jane, based upon this motion, which the judge will now need to address, the government can respond to this as well, is that she is immune from prosecution.

Shouldn't even begin this prosecution.

We're not even gonna talk about the substance.

what happened here with with the defendant in front of her she is immune from prosecution that of course is exactly what the president alleged when he was before the Supreme Court we got that

that opinion about what, 11 months ago, saying, yes, presidents enjoy immunity, can't be diverted by things like criminal prosecutions.

They're invoking, subtly and not so subtly, that same concept to say, she is a Wisconsin circuit court judge.

She is responsible for presiding over matters in her court.

She is immune, therefore, from these kinds of challenges.

That's one of two.

Because it's federal.

Exactly, right?

And that's actually much related to the second argument.

which is also federal government, stay out of this.

This is a state matter.

That's their second argument.

It's federalism.

This is a matter for the state courts to address, not you.

And again, they are compelling.

They are creative arguments.

Everybody's looking at this thinking, gee, we were anticipating pushback on the substance and things like whether the statute applies to this conduct.

That will probably come.

More motions can come down the road.

This attacks on both of those grounds.

issue, the federalism issue, right out of the gate, whether court should even begin to proceed over this.

Stop this now.

We don't have to get to substance.

Judge, shut this down.

That's why it's very aggressive.

It's very creative.

It's intellectually fascinating.

It'll be interesting to see what Judge Edelman does with this.

So there is a potential right now that this could all get dismissed.

It is entirely possible.

Again, you've got Judge Edelman, who has always been very creative and very open to these kinds of things.

He issued some opinions years ago that changed the way that we think about the sentencing guidelines in America across the board.

This is a judge who's not afraid to seize upon not novel theories, but theories that are prompting us to think about what we're doing.

and he is not afraid to issue those kinds of decisions.

And again, the process here is that the motion is now filed, the government has a chance to respond to all this, that will happen.

But don't be surprised if Judge Edelman then, at some point, not this week, not even next week, but maybe in a month or so, maybe a couple months from now, either has a hearing on this, kind of an oral argument on it, or he decides the case, the motion, even as it presently

stands, he could also lump this into other motions that the defense will also file about the statute, about the substance of this.

But this is a judge, again, drawn just randomly in the process who has been open to these kinds of things and would not be afraid to do this if he thinks that justice demands it.

I honestly, I kind of, this is from the,

I got the petty side of me.

I really love how they're using 10th Amendment, a tactic that the GOP is used for, or that side is used for hundreds of years now to say, get out of our way, get out of our lives.

We don't need you.

And now they're saying, yeah, you don't need, but also the question I have, Jim, and this is like, this goes back to really basic thing.

Like we're not, like we said, we're not lawyers, but the story we've read is that this seems

on its face from all the details that we've gotten from the stories we've read is nothing happened.

She led him out a door to a publicly accessible hallway.

He passed ICE agents, traveled down an elevator with an ICE agent, and then they arrested him outside.

She didn't partake.

a partake in any nefarious plan.

She didn't open up a door in her chambers.

That's a secret poll in there that leads him out the back alley and he can run away.

She just literally said, go out that way.

I mean, am I wrong in

saying that?

Right, and I think that's exactly what you're gonna hear in this case.

That certainly could be the trial presentation to a jury, right?

You make the argument, Greg.

You are an attorney here, right?

And you make that argument that there's nothing to see here, but it also goes, even before that, your very good points

to the issue of whether or not under the statutes, there are these two statutes obstructing and then impeding the proceedings generally here, do the facts of this case, which are still mostly set out in that complaint, do they support a legitimate prosecution under those statutes to your point?

Is there something really to see here?

Do these statutes really contemplate

criminalizing that conduct, which as you've argued here, nothing happened here.

That can also be a pretrial motion to say, let's take all the facts is true.

Let's maintain that the government's position on what happened here, plainly Hanna-Dougan and her attorneys do not maintain that.

Let's assume that the government is accurate and incomplete about all this.

Even so, to the way that you just described it, Greg, under the statute, does this state an offense?

And if not, that's also a basis upon which Judge Edelman could say, you know what?

Very interesting facts here.

They don't articulate an offense.

No conduct here that's punishable by prosecutable.

under the federal statute, I'm going to dismiss it.

That's another motion.

It's related to what we've got here, but it underscores the great many things that the defense attorneys can present long before this gets to trial, and that's a long ways away.

That is a long ways away.

If you're just joining us, Jim Santel is our guest, our friend and colleague, and the host of Amicus, a law review Saturdays across the network from nine until 11.

I have a question for you, Jim, just in general,

when it comes to court cases and things like this, why do things take so long?

Why

does it take so long?

Because you

said, even in this

instance,

Judge, it could be a month.

It

could

be two months.

We

saw this with the Donald Trump prosecutions, right, Jane, as well, that we indicted and the question was, well, gee, we'll go to trial those cases with the exception of New York never went to trial.

And even there, a couple of years later in the federal system, and this will prompt all of your listeners, once again, to roll their eyes, there's something called the Speedy Trial Act.

And it says within 70, 70 days of appearing, you've got to go to trial.

It's a due process thing, once again, your interests and the defense interests and an expedited procedure.

there are all kinds of exceptions to that.

Motions pending, that tolls the passage of that time.

The judge can complain and explain and declare that this is a complex matter, all kinds of things.

And so even within the statutory obligation to get it to trial, judges have great discretion to postpone it.

They do want to get it right.

They do want to make certain that the defense has a full opportunity to present its case.

The prosecution, the same thing.

All of that takes time.

Even so, I share very much your concern as a prosecutor for 30 years.

There were times when I was also...

not too concerned about in terms of fundamental constitutional interest, but just in the interest of getting this done, let the public know what the result is, that kind of interest, which should be at the top of the list.

I, too, shared that when we said another delay based upon witness unavailability, but some discovery that's not produced.

It all, in the end, is to the benefit of the entire system, because you're not moving too quickly through the entire

process.

Or something is going to get missed.

Exactly.

whole agenda concern.

One of the things that's discussed about this case because it was a major headline across the country is the chilling effect it would have for how judges could possibly be arrested and prosecuted.

I'm thinking about the other side of the idea though.

Let's say it goes all the way through.

It's dismissed.

There was no evidence.

There's nothing wrong.

And the judge is like, there's no reason to go forward and dismisses the case outright.

I don't want to say chilling effect, but what does that inspire for other people who want to try to do the same thing?

Cause we've talked about it's sending a message to judges.

Well, if Judge Edelman dismisses it outright on basis of no evidence, what does that say to those who are like, well, I guess we can't really go.

If we're going to go after judges, we have to do more than what we just did here.

It's not going to be a slam dunk because.

This case right here on its face just seems like it has nothing to offer but they want so bad to put a judge in jail

Messaging in all directions,

right?

Not just to the public not just to a defendant but also to the prosecution You have to believe that right now the Department of Justice including US Attorney's office right up the street here from where we are here in Racine is looking at this and thinking gosh If indeed this does get dismissed early on or even later on on any of these motions by judge

gentlemen, as an aside, highly likely under that circumstance that this Department of Justice would appeal that to the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals.

Because Jeopardy hasn't attached, you do get that right to pursue that.

And this this Department of Justice probably would do so.

But let's assume that even the 7th Circuit says yes, Judge Edelman is right in dismissing this case.

If he does that, it does send a message.

Do these things reverberate and main justice?

You bet they do.

I've been there physically and geographically.

I've been

in the U.S.

Attorney's Office, major decisions like this, there are meetings, there are memorandums written, what do we do about the future?

How do we prosecute these cases in the future?

Greg, as you just said, what are the facts that we need?

It's plainly gotta be something more than this.

More substantive.

It sends a strong message to the government prosecution and to the investigators as well.

You may see a lot of things unless you've got something more compelling, at least under these statutes, it is not enough.

If indeed, this is where that case goes.

It's a lot to absorb.

It's a lot, it's a lot.

I'm so glad

you're here

because when

we talk about motions and appeals and double appeals, I feel like we're playing poker and

it's like Annie up and

then now I call and now it's a double

call and now I'm gonna

Annie again.

And I'm like, you wanna watch some dog videos?

Here's this cute thing my cat did this morning,

right?

We're gonna continue our conversation with Jim Santel and we are also gonna talk about action that is arguments that are happening right now before the US Supreme Court regarding

birthright citizenship.

That is all on the way.

Stay with us.

You are listening to Matt Nair on air.

This is the Civic Media Radio Network.

We will be right

back.

you

Good, good morning and welcome back to Matt Nair on air.

Jane Matt Nair, Greg Box, Sweet Calbee on the board, coming to you from our studio at Radio Park in Racine.

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five chances to pick up a four pack of tickets to see our great Milwaukee Brewers.

He is our colleague here at Civic Media.

He hosts Amicus, a law review on Saturdays from 9 to 11.

Jim Santel is here.

And Jim, we have arguments going on before the Supreme Court right now regarding birthright citizenship, which is something

that has been part of our constitution since the late 1800s.

In the wake of the Civil War, we had as a nation to figure out what do we do with all the people who are slaves?

What is their status?

And to the credit of this nation at the time, the United States Congress and the requisite number of states said they should be citizens.

Now, we know the history that followed that was plainly very, very full of tumult, and we still continue to wrestle with the challenges for citizenship for everyone in this nation, but the reality

is that that's what prompted the 14th Amendment.

We think about the 14th Amendment, the context of the other major concepts there, equal protection, right, due process, all those things.

That's where we normally think about it.

President Trump issues this executive order, first day of office, and basically says, well, wait a minute, let's rethink whether or not birthright citizenship, that is, if you are a person and you were born here in the geography of the United States, some exceptions, but

Principally that that is it.

You are a citizen

regardless of the legal status of your parents

Exactly chain and that's what he says.

He says well wait a minute There's this other piece of of language inside the 14 men says talking about subject to the jurisdiction of the nation All right, so about the courts in of the country generally and what Donald Trump says but it's but wait a minute if you are a a son or daughter of a woman who is illegally here or

temporarily here, even if your status is legal,

but your temporary

here, then in fact, 14th Amendment doesn't apply, and even though you were born geographically here, you are not a citizen.

And that's what his executive order says.

There have been courts around the country that have taken up challenges in this.

Every single one of them has said, no, Mr. President, that's wrong.

That's not how this has gone forward.

For what it's worth, there's precedent.

Yes, again, 19th century, 1898, United States versus Wong Kim Ark.

The Supreme Court already said, yes, a man who's born in San Francisco to Chinese parents is a citizen.

This has been resolved, everybody, right?

Right?

But they want to carve out for this.

And we want to carve out now.

And so again, it's premised upon this notion.

Well, if your mother was not legally here or temporarily here, then you're not a citizen.

And the other thing that's going on right now based upon the early argument is they're addressing that, but they're also addressing this larger issue as large as that is about nationwide injunctions.

That is when one federal judge says, I'm finding that indeed this can or cannot happen.

And I'm making it applicable across the nation, right?

And again,

applies in both directions.

Here's the one that I think about.

You both remember, your listeners remember a fellow named a judge named Kaz Merrick, who basically shut down Mipha Pristone a number of years

ago, right?

Northern Texas, the major

one judge made it a national injunction, right?

And again, the issue is good for the goose, good for the gander, right?

They're wrestling right now with whether or not

individual federal district court judges, like Kazmerik, like ones in this case as well.

Other situations should have that power.

Should an appeals court, from which these decisions are taken, should they have the power?

Ultimately the notion is, of course, Supreme Court will resolve all this, but that issue of national impact of what a singular federal judge does is looming almost bigger, almost bigger right now than is the birthright citizen.

citizenship inside this argument as it takes place right now as we're on the air.

And I know this is a much bigger discussion we can have, but we spoke to Judge Paul Michelle yesterday in the first hour, and we talked about habeas corpus and the suspension, the suspension therein of that part of due process.

And the notion is if you, you can't suspend it for some, you suspend it for all.

If

they

get rid of birthright citizenship, they succeed.

This affects.

Everyone

one then we're gonna have to go retroactive

Absolutely, and this is the other argument to that again You've got a couple lawyers one of them is the sister general from one of the states one of those as a professor from Georgetown They will also argue I anticipate that you're opening up the proverbial Pandora's box can of worms Are you do you really want to go down this this path where now you're examining?

What your birth birth lineage is and where it was your mother?

Where is your father and going back and addressing not just those folks at

Donald Trump would like to throw out of this nation.

But frankly, Greg, to your point, everybody, right?

And can that be a potential impact of lessening the clear, the clear statement of what the 14th Amendment's all about?

Was Ivana Trump a citizen when she gave birth to her three children?

Not baron.

Oh, Ivana,

sorry.

I'm just curious.

Again, the fact that we're scratching our heads, Jamie.

Okay, let's think about all these circumstances where, again, this is the big one, right?

Your mother is legally here.

She's here in a student visa.

She's got some other employment situation.

Nobody's maintaining that she's illegally here.

And she gives birth in Wisconsin, in New Jersey, in Florida.

My guess is that there are an awful lot of people who are alive today, citizens in our good community who are in that status.

And now, and now they are no longer in that protected class.

Join Jim Santel, Saturdays from 9 to 11, Across the Network for Amicus, a law review.

Thank you so very much, Jim.

Always a pleasure, my friends.

News is coming up next.

Stay with us.

You were listening to Matt Nair on air.

This is the Civic Media Radio Network.

Good morning.

Welcome.

Welcome to that near on air, Jane that near Greg Bach, Kevin Newton off coming to you live from our studio here at radio park in Racine.

You can always join us.

Call or text.

The number is the same 855-752-4842.

Leave a comment if you're watching on the live stream on Facebook, YouTube and what used to be Twitter in about 15 minutes.

She joins us every Thursday, civic media's.

Meteorologist and multi-award winner, multi-award winner, Brittany Merleau will be joining us around 10-20 to talk about the weather.

We do have some severe weather coming into Wisconsin depending upon where you are.

It's going to matter as far as when this is going to start affecting you.

So Brittany Merleau will be here.

Coming up in just a little bit after the 1030 news, journal Sentinel Sports Guru JR Radcliffe to talk all things sports, and we will wrap up the show as we always do with this shouldn't be a thing.

Today, it's the off the top of my head edition.

If you ever have a thing you think should not be, send it into Greg and me at janesaysatcivicmedia.us, J-A-N-E-S-A-Y-S, Jane says,

at civicmedia.us.

Whenever we have Jim on, I feel like I need a good hour afterwards just to decompress, let all the information sink in.

Burble around in there.

Yeah, because this is like, we are lawyer adjacent.

It takes a little longer for the osmosis to kick in, but my goodness.

Yeah, he's fantastic.

Yes.

And check out his show on Saturdays from 9 to 11, really.

It's one of the reasons why having Jim here is because law is

complicated

yes it

is but

he makes it

so digestible yeah he really does great show amicus a law review saturdays from nine until 11 wanted to spend a little time talking about this galvin do we have that clip please that i asked you to find the plane the plane it's the plane oh my gosh it's here the plane it's landing uh yeah let's talk about the free plane shall we

I'm sorry, Jane, can I get in the crack of my knuckles here?

I need the aircoats to the heavy lifting on free.

Free plane, yes.

This might be one of my favorite questions stemming from this jet that the government of Qatar wants to give Donald Trump.

Right wing commentator, Ann Coulter jumped into this discussion.

Here's what Ann Coulter had to say about this jet from Qatar.

Quote, I can't wait for the press to find out about France's so-called gift of the Statue of Liberty, accepted in 1886 by then-president Grover Cleveland, unquote.

How

am I, okay, you know, okay, Jane, all right, all right, I'm just gonna put something out here really quick.

Why do I have to give them any sort of leeway, any respect and treat them as any sort of equal of any sort when they say things like that?

Why do I have to be like, hey Greg, be the bigger person?

When you say things like that, I don't have to respect you at all.

I think it's hilarious.

Ben Shapiro said it once.

He literally said these words.

Ann Coulter is comedy for the right.

He thinks she's hilarious.

So maybe

she's there, John Stewart.

Maybe that's what it is.

This wasn't a serious question.

I can't wait for the press to find out about France's so-called gift of the Statue of Liberty, accepted in 1886 by then-president Grover Cleveland.

If Grover Cleveland took the Statue of Liberty and put it in his backyard,

You might have an argument

if he said like like this statue belongs to me This is Grover Cleveland's statue of a giant lady.

Yes.

Yes.

That's not what happened No, no it was a gift to the country

Yeah, and there you can still see it and there is an argument to be made that the plane is a gift to the country I will go as far as that, but let's go back to that phrase Jane free plane

Not free.

No.

Not free.

As we discussed, it's a plane.

Do you know, does anyone hear?

I, I can't tell you all the details.

I watched one documentary once, saw an expert.

What it takes to retrofit a plane.

to be secure enough to meet the standards of the secret service to carry the president around the world.

They didn't throw in the plane and say, parts and services included.

It's gonna cost- Is there a warranty on this?

Yeah, exactly.

It's gonna cost upwards of a billion dollars to do this.

And you know who would be on the hook for that?

Ann Coulter, me, you.

Calvin everyone who voted or didn't vote for Donald Trump.

We're paying for that and it takes a long time

Yeah, they're actually saying now some reports are estimating that if Donald Trump would accept this plane First of all the planes 13 years old.

This is not a brand new plane.

I'm okay cool

This is

not a brand new plane.

I saw one report this morning that essentially said this isn't nice enough for the cutter

Royal family that's why they're gonna give it away because they have better

planes well The two Air Force one aircrafts.

I'm looking this right up there.

They're modified Boeing 747s.

They're around 35 years old So we do have older planes flying the president But like we said retrofitted secure up to speed going through all the processes this plane

Fine, but how long does that take?

Well, and

there is the potential that again, would this be accepted?

It could take three to four years before the plane is in the shape it needs to be in order to transport the president of the United States.

CNN this morning, making necessary changes to this plane is estimated to cost three times the value of the plane.

In other words, for this free plane,

American taxpayers could pay an additional $800 million.

$800 million.

Where

are you going to find that money?

Well, the taxpayers will suck it up.

I mean, that's going to eat into your tax break for the rich.

And then the other thing that keeps coming out about this, and we mentioned this yesterday, our attorney general, Pam Bondi,

who was the attorney general of Florida, who, by the way, dropped a case against Trump University, committing fraud for people who signed up.

She dropped that case after Donald Trump made a donation to her political campaign.

But aside from that, Bambondi was working as a lobbyist for the country of Qatar.

You know who else has ties to the country of Qatar?

Let me guess, people who work for Trump.

Trump's chief of staff, Susie Wiles,

and FBI Director Cash Patel both served on Cutter's payroll.

There has to be natural resources or something because Cutter, we weren't, the last time we talked as much about Cutter was when they were hosting the World Cup.

Before that, like, we weren't, like, they weren't in the news.

They weren't, they weren't a player.

You know what I mean?

Like, this isn't Russia or China.

Well, if you go back to the first

Trump administration, under the first Trump administration, Jared Kushner, Donald Trump's son-in-law,

needed money to bail out his big building in New York.

Oh, 666.

666.

Very

weird name.

He needed a loan to bail him out for that building.

They went to Cutter, Cutter refused, and then there was an embargo on Cutter.

That seems unbranded.

Doesn't that seem, they make you go, hmm, hmm, hmm.

And then somehow he got the money for that building.

It's interesting.

These things happen.

Interesting side story that I mentioned to you, Jane, another story regarding gifts.

Current Defense Secretary, Pete Hegseth, decided to gift the British Defense Minister, gave him a gift.

That's not unusual.

People give gifts all the time.

Right.

But you don't get to keep them.

But the Ministry of Defense held the...

the gift back, it was a statue of a cowboy and a framed photo.

He gave it to his colleague, his counterpart.

Thank you.

And they held it back because it violated the ethics of accepting gifts of a certain value.

Now, Jane, do you think that cowboy statue cost $800 million?

I'm assuming it was probably under $100.

No, well,

no, it was a little bit more expensive.

It was $187.

45 dollars, 187 pounds.

But that was enough for the British Ministry of Defense to say, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, cannot take this present.

It looks nice.

We appreciate it.

Love Cowboys, love America, but sorry, that violates the ethics.

But we are fine with taking a possibly billion dollar to the taxpayer plane.

It's a flying

palace.

Call it the right thing.

It doesn't have

a gold

toilet,

James.

I'm sure it does.

Oh

my gosh, this is... That's what makes it so attractive to at least one person.

What I find interesting, though, there are some Republicans who are actually coming out and saying, this is a bad idea.

Yeah.

This looks really bad.

And, and, and yeah, well, don't worry.

He'll, he'll look to Pam Bondi who said, this is fine.

There's nothing wrong with this.

Oh yeah.

I mean, to just dismiss it, like not even like think about like the implications.

It's just, it's the question we ask almost all the time, which is what is going to be the thing that pushes people over the edge?

Is it going to be your family being affected by vaccines?

Is it going to be, see, is it seeing the president take what is the biggest bribe?

possibly in this country.

I don't know if there's a bigger one.

And

it's

just out now

open.

Yeah.

And it's just out there.

It's like, it's like, it's just a little sunglasses fall down.

It says deal with it and just moving on.

So I just, I don't know.

It's, it's almost become a point where we're laughing at it to a point because it is kind of funny.

It's like, Oh, a free plane.

Yeah.

Cool.

Cool deal.

You know, this texture just came in.

You know your Trump derangement syndrome is out of control when your big story is the POTUS given a $400 million free aircraft.

You're right.

That's not a big story.

Happens

all the

time.

No,

that's not called international

bribery.

Happens all the time.

Nothing to see here.

Even other Republicans are stepping up and saying, this looks really bad.

Probably shouldn't

do this.

Didn't you tell me a story yesterday of...

the right losing their mind over a necklace that Hillary Clinton was given.

I believe you told me that she was given a necklace.

It cost almost $500.

They did not accept it.

And they lost their minds.

But I'm not allowed to question or at least be a little perturbed by the fact that an eight hundred books, no, it's a $400 million plane, but it will cost nearly a billion dollars.

So I guess texture, that's fine.

We'll just charge you a little bit extra on the taxes because you're fine with it.

You and we'll

We can't give you a free plane ride, but you can have your very own look when it comes to time.

We'll let you look at it.

Abs, you can look and you can wave at it too.

Wave at it!

Oh my

gosh!

Give it a small wave, everybody.

Again, just go with Ann Coulter.

I can't wait for the press to find out about France's so-called gift.

of the Statue of Liberty, accepted in 1886 by then-President Grover Cleveland.

Yeah, Grover took it with him when he left the White House.

It sounds back long.

He was also another one of those non-consecutive presidents, so that's all part of the plan.

Perfectly normal,

nothing to see.

When we return, we have weather coming our way.

Brittany Merleau, a civic media's meteorologist, is going to join us for a little weather and wine.

Stay close.

You are listening to Matt Nair on air.

This is the Civic Media Radio Network.

We'll be right

back.

She is mad, and she starts to cry.

She takes a swing, man.

She can't help.

She don't mean nothing.

Just don't know what else to do

Good morning and welcome back to Matt Nair on air.

Jane Matt Nair, Greg Bach, Galitini on the board coming to you live from her studio here at Radio Park in Racine.

You can always join us no matter where you're listening, say WISS in Oshkosh.

Hello WISS in Oshkosh.

WLAK in Amory.

Amory, Amory,

Amory.

WCQM in Park Falls, which is near Butternut.

Butternut.

I need to come up with an a neemery like butternut

announcement.

We'll work on that.

Butternut.

Kind of like

that.

That's

weird.

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Civic Media meteorologist here for a little weather and wine.

Good morning.

How are you?

Good morning.

I am pretty good, I guess, considering today's weather forecast.

I'm trying to hang in there, but we've got a lot going on.

Yeah, there's severe weather coming our way.

I'm assuming it's going to start out west first.

Yep, you're right.

It's going to start northwest, probably right around three o'clock.

It really wants to spark up in areas towards Minneapolis, Eau Claire.

And then it rapidly intensifies, swinging in towards Madison, the Dells, Stevens Point, Wausau, Hayward by five o'clock this evening.

Oh.

And then moving into the Fox Valley, Rhinelander, Ashland, even Milwaukee area by six o'clock tonight.

And then I think it could still be hanging around the Lakeshore, probably more north towards Door County and northeast Wisconsin, around seven.

And it's going to pack a punch, that's for sure.

Well, and what a lovely time to hit.

It's going to be hitting at least around Milwaukee, right around rush hour.

So keep that in mind.

Maybe you can slip out a little early today, just in case.

Are we are we expecting tornadoes?

There's always the potential I would assume for tornadoes.

Yeah, so actually we're at a pretty big risk for tornadoes and it kind of really goes from Eau Claire through the Wausau area down through like the Dells and it swings over to the Milwaukee area too.

So we're actually looking at what they've got it.

They've got this little area kind of in a hatched thing and that means a 10% chance of a strong tornado, EF2 or higher or stronger within 25 miles of you.

Oh, that's a pretty big chance.

That is a big chance.

Well, and

I think sometimes we associate severe weather only with tornadoes.

Severe thunderstorms can cause an immense amount of damage.

Oh, absolutely, especially when they line out like this one's going to do, where the biggest line kind of is, and kind of at the top of the line and the bottom of the line are the strongest wins and biggest tornado potential.

And we could see wins in this line 75, 80, 85

miles

per hour.

So it's, yeah, as that kind of grows and moves in towards the lakeshore, it could definitely do some widespread scatter damage.

from these just wins, not even a tornado warning, just wins.

And the hail too, the hail risk is pretty large.

I mean, we're talking about ping pong ball size hail, maybe to like the size of eggs or so, that can shatter windows.

So stay away from windows.

And if you're driving, try to get to a gas station, get one of those hangers

that are there,

try to protect yourself because if that windshield shatters in, it could hurt you.

Yeah, it's scary stuff.

In the wrong time, I hate that this is happening during the time we're trying to get home from school, work, things like that.

It's best to then keep your attention to your, keep some attention to your phone for weather updates or keep that radio on to make sure you're getting all those updates.

Rob from Tigerton actually said, people with cellcom phone service, the phones and SMS textings down, don't know when service is back up and running, especially with severe weather coming.

He has cellcom.

So if you have cellcom,

You might not be getting those notifications on your phone.