It’s Good To Have A Plan (Hour 1)

Welcome welcome to Matt and air on air Jane that near and Greg bot coming to you live from our studio here at Radio Park in Racine You can always join us call or text the number is the same 8 5 5 7 5 2 4 8 4 2 You can leave a comment if you're watching on the live stream on Facebook YouTube and what used to be Twitter Calvin has the day off today

not quite sure how that happened.

What?

I know.

We're going to stop that.

I don't like that at all.

That's got to come to the stop.

So Greg is handling things on the board.

Appreciate that.

We have a very, very busy show coming up for you today.

James Vanderloo, who we have spoken to before.

He's the head of the OEC Group in Milwaukee and does a lot of business with businesses overseas and businesses that

supply things overseas and receive imports.

So we're going to talk to James about what he has been hearing from his clients about this up and down on the tariffs.

Doesn't seem like we know what's happening from one day to the next.

So we will be talking to James Vanderloo after the 10 30 news next hour.

It is Friday.

That means Dan Schaffer from the recombobulation area is going to be here.

Lots of things going on in Wisconsin politics.

that you may not be aware of so we'll update you with that and we will wrap it up as we always do with this shouldn't be a thing today it is the fire is finally out edition that's coming up around 1151 so i hope you can join us for that we do have some changes coming your way next wednesday the lineup here on civic media is going to be changing we've talked to you a little bit about that in the past days but here is what's going to happen

Wednesday morning this coming Wednesday on April 23rd from 5 to 6 a.m.

You can catch the Midwest Farm report with Pam Yankee the Famulous Farm Babe 6 to 9 a.m.

Mornings with Pat Crite low powered by Up North News Greg and I and Calvin moving up one hour our show starting next Wednesday will be from 9 to 11 Tom Hartman program takes over from 11 to 2

Then our friend and colleague Todd Alba from 2-4, the wonderful Maggie Dawn from 4-6, and Nightlight with Peach Swabba stays in its regular slot from 6-8pm.

Earl Ingram, by the way, is continuing on with Civic Media.

He's going to be doing...

special reporting, special podcasts that you're going to hear all over the civic media radio network.

And also, if you are a fan of John and Gordy in Madison on WMDX and Maino and the mayor on WGBW in Green Bay, they will stay in their regular slots as will Stephanie Miller in Madison.

So.

Did I miss anything there, Greg?

Greg Bach?

No,

I think you're all good to

go.

Chad Holmes and everyone.

I mean, it's going to be a great, this is great stuff.

And we're very, very excited for what Earl is going to be bringing to the table, especially on Pat's show, because we'll have those statewide correspondents coming into his show.

And, you know, what we do, as we spoke to Don Rosen earlier, who's on WRJN, it's going to be the same great show, just one hour up and, you know, having a good time, talking about the news.

Audio sorbet.

There shouldn't

be a thing.

You

know,

having fun.

Yeah, we're just moving up one hour from nine from nine to nine from 10 a.m.

Again, that's going to be starting this coming Wednesday on April 23rd couple of things we wanted to start off with though this hour this broke yesterday just as we were ending the show the shooting yesterday at Florida State University this from CNN the Florida State University student a kill accused

of killing two people and injuring five others in Thursday shooting at the University in Florida is the son of a local sheriff's deputy, according to authorities.

This man, young man, also spent time training with law enforcement and was on the sheriff's advisory council in the years before this attack.

The 20 year old Phoenix Ickner, according to police, was carrying a handgun.

That used to be his mother's weapon.

A review of court records also show that Phoenix Eichner had a rough childhood.

He is a registered Republican, according to Florida voter registration records.

He was also quoted in an FSU school newspaper in January about anti-Trump protests.

Quote, these people are usually pretty entertaining, usually not for good reasons.

I think it's a little too late.

Trump is already going to be inaugurated.

So there's not really much you can do unless you outright revolt.

And I don't think anyone wants that.

Eichner was also asked to leave a political club reportedly because of his white supremacist views.

He is alive.

He is hospitalized.

He is being treated.

But again, two people killed yesterday.

and at least five others injured, including this suspect.

This will be an ongoing story, but we wanted to give you a little update about that because, again, as I said, this broke yesterday just as we were getting off the air.

Something else that I think is important to know, and this is from Wisconsin Public Radio, Joe Schultz.

With the byline, we've been talking a lot about Abrego Garcia, this man from El Salvador.

who was sent to this prison in El Salvador without due process.

We'll also have an update on that coming up in just a little bit.

But this happened right here in Wisconsin.

The federal government will find you.

Immigration officials wrongfully told a Fox Valley man to leave the country.

Nina resident Tom Franz got identical emails last week, which said they were from the Department of Homeland Security.

And originally, he just blew it off because he thought it was spam.

And then he took a closer look at this email, which said, again, this Nina resident, Tom Franz, who is a 68-year-old retired college administrator and teacher.

He was born in Western Pennsylvania.

The emails that he got last Friday said he was in the United States on humanitarian parole, and his parole was being

terminated.

Quote, if you do not depart the United States immediately, you will be subject to potential law enforcement actions that will result in your removal from the United States.

Do not attempt to remain in the US.

The federal government will find you.

Please depart the United States immediately, unquote.

Again, this from two emails that a Nina resident

Received last Friday, the man born in Pennsylvania.

He is a U.S.

resident.

He has never been on or applied for humanitarian parole, as mentioned in this email.

He's been living in the Fox Valley since he moved in 1981 for a job at the now University of Wisconsin Oshkosh.

Because of the threatening nature of this email, he said he decided to do some research about it.

He discovered that an immigration attorney in Massachusetts also got a similar letter, and he says he was worried about the possibility of immigration officials showing up at his house, arresting him and deporting him.

As a retiree, he said he was also worried about a reference in the letter to losing his benefits.

68 years old, he's receiving Social Security, he's on Medicare.

He says, I was not naive enough to believe that the government never makes a mistake, but my fear was that it could compound.

And if it's compounded, then what will be the consequences for me?

This just seems like a snowballing.

We've been talking about this for at least a week now where like this is, you know, it starts at one point and it's going to go to another point and where will it end?

Where will it end?

What's going to be the limit?

What will stop them?

This is a US resident.

Yeah.

Born in Pennsylvania.

Yep.

68 years old.

Two emails last Friday from the Department of Homeland Security, accusing him of being here under humanitarian auspices and then saying, yeah, we're removing that.

Now you have to get out of the country.

What a smooth well oiled machine is the Trump administration.

This is just absolutely ridiculous and like This goes to the fact that like it like with We've talked about too with mr. Garcia.

This is a mistake being made by them and They can't then said I mean like oh we apologize.

You are here Lee Here's like you must provide this information provide a birth certificate pass whatever it is.

They can't be like oh our bad

our mistake.

They don't even say, I'm sorry.

But instead they're like, no, you know what?

Never mind.

Wait for the bus.

They're going to come pick you up and you're gone.

Well, this is the Roy Cohen playbook.

Yes.

Oh,

absolutely.

Never admit you were wrong.

Never.

Double down and accuse the other side of exactly what you're doing.

Yep.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

And that is, and that is the only way you get is the only way you

make it in the Trump administration 2.0.

I mean, it's weird to say at least in the first administration, there were people there.

You're like, Oh, these individuals are level headed compared to now.

Well,

now he's surrounded by yes, man.

Yes, it's it's or else.

I mean, this is this is this is cult like behavior.

Dear leader cannot speak against him and an era paranoia and competition

for his love and affection.

So what did this Nina resident do?

Tom Franz said he spent a lot of the day just trying to decide what where to go with this.

Ultimately decided to reach out to Congress.

So Monday morning he left a voicemail with Senator Tammy Baldwin's office, got a phone call less than an hour later.

Her office then got in contact with the Department of Homeland Security, which said the email was incorrectly sent to Tom Franz.

The notice that Franz Gott went out to email addresses in the Customs and Border Patrol Home app.

The emails typically go to a person applying for parole or asylum, immigration lawyers, and financial supporters of applicants.

But Franz said he doesn't fall under any of those categories and doesn't understand why he got that email.

Yeah.

It's the thing of like, if I got it, I would probably be like,

Oh, this is ridiculous.

But as you're getting closer and closer, you're like, oh, what's going to happen

to me?

Exactly.

And is he going to end up on a plane to El Salvador?

Without being able to talk to a lawyer or anyone.

We're overdue process in this country, Jane.

That's a thing of the past.

Tammy Baldwin's office says the matter has been resolved after they were in contact with federal immigration officials.

And thank goodness that Baldwin's office responded.

Yeah, absolutely.

Because we imagine if you were in a state where you're elected officials just like, yeah, well.

throw hands in the air, nothing we can do about that, too bad, sorry.

I mean, the president gets to say there's nothing we can do, so why not?

If you would like to join the conversation, 855-752-4842, when we return, we will have an update on Abrego Garcia, the man

from El Salvador, who was here legally.

They accused him of being a gang member, sent him to El Salvador and incarcerated him.

Without any due process, we have an update on that, so stay with us.

You are listening to Matt Nair on air.

This is the Civic Media Radio Network.

We'll be right back.

Give me your tired and your poor your huddle masses yearning to breathe free

Good morning and welcome back to Matt Nair on air Jane Matt Nair and sweet Greg B

On the board, coming to you from our studio here at Radio Park in Racine, where you can always join us.

Call or text the number is the same, 855-752-4842.

Leave a comment if you're watching on the livestream.

On Facebook, YouTube, and what used to be Twitter, we were having some technical issues on some of the livestreams.

Greg Bach, but I believe that has been resolved.

Yes, I'm seeing thumbs up on the livestream from people, so yes, they can hear.

your wonderful voice.

I appreciate that.

Thank you, everyone, for joining us.

Calvin is off today.

Kevin got a day off, so Greg is running the board.

This is like our earliest iteration of matinee.

I

know, like the old days.

It's like, what am I

doing?

You

know what you're doing.

I know what I'm doing every day.

After the 1030 news, we're going to be joined by James Vanderloo.

We have spoken to him numerous times over the months he heads the OEC group in Milwaukee, and we're going to be talking about tariffs.

And what he is hearing from his clients, because again, it's been very up and down as far as how long they're instituting, what they are, who they affect.

All of that.

So James Vanderloo going to join us after 10 30.

Next hour, Dan Schaefer will be here from the recombobulation area.

Lots of things going on in Milwaukee politics.

Some yelling and apparently the Wisconsin elections commission.

And now they want to be able to remove people from Republican district chairs, right?

Code of conduct.

They're calling it.

Okay.

All right.

Can't wait to see what this looks

like.

We will kick that around next hour with Dan Schaefer.

But we did want to give you an update.

about Kilmar Ebrego Garcia, the Maryland resident who was sent to El Salvador and imprisoned since the Trump administration sent him there without due process.

Senator Chris Van Hollande of Maryland did meet with him yesterday.

Yes.

Yes.

The day before when the senator was there, he was refused.

He was

refused.

While Riley Moore, Riley Moore, who is a congressman,

Republican Congressman was not only allowed in there, he was allowed to take selfies and pictures.

Influencers were allowed in there, so I think the pressure...

Stop just for one moment.

Yes, of course.

Influencers were allowed inside this... Influencers.

Well, that's, I mean, this is right out of their playbook when they released the Epstein report like a month ago.

They handed it to influencers instead of the press.

So, yeah, of course, but there must have been mounting pressure.

I, like, I, that was one of the last things I saw before I went to bed last night were pictures of Senator Van Hollen speaking to Mr. Garcia.

And like, there was, for some reason, just like a release of pressure in my brain.

I was like, okay.

Well, we know he's alive.

The fears are for now quelled as far as his being alive or not.

Yes.

Because they're up to this point, there had been no proof of life.

Yeah.

Didn't know if the man was alive or dead.

On Thursday, the senator shared an image of himself seated with the man identified as a Brego Garcia.

Quote, I said my main goal of this trip was to meet with Kilmar.

Tonight, I had the chance.

Democrats have taken up this case since the Supreme Court ruled last week.

The administration must facilitate his return to the U.S.

because

court order forbade the administration to remove him to El Salvador.

Yes.

And the courts have decided this, the Supreme Court in a nine to zero decision have said this.

It's really starting, it's really making them look bad.

And as we mentioned before, the situation came to where President Trump

turned into the human drug emoji and go, I can't do anything.

And then the president of ourselves or some, I can't do anything.

And honestly, and I know there's probably a legal reason and I can ask, we can ask Jim Santel next week.

Congress, I'm sorry.

Senator Van Hollen is a senator.

That's a high ranking position that comes with certain clearances as well.

I just be like, like, you're coming with me right now.

I've got a plane and none of you are going to stop me.

I have a court order and try it.

U.S.

District Judge Paula Zinnis said Tuesday the administration appeared to have done nothing at all to return him, and then a panel of three appeals court judges excoriated the White House's handling of this yesterday.

It's my understanding that at least one of those judges are Reagan appointee.

So don't come back at us with, these are all liberal activist judges.

No, that's not the case.

It's called following the law.

Since Trump took over

and just in January, there have been examples of courts making decisions with judges from the past five presidents going back to Reagan, including Trump judges.

Exactly.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Trump, they're all, but no, Jane, they're all activist judges.

Now they're all rhinos and or Antifa or their corrupt FBI.

That's how they're doing it.

Elbraco Garcia.

was born in El Salvador fled to the U.S.

more than a decade ago because gang members were trying to extort his family and get him into the gang.

In 2019, an immigration judge ruled he could not be deported to El Salvador because of his fears that the gang would persecute him.

A White House spokesman on Thursday repeated false claims that he is a gang member.

Apparently because there was a photo of him wearing a Chicago Bulls hat.

Yeah, that's that sound like literally that sounds like your grandparents like, oh, they must be a gang member.

They're had us to the side a little bit.

Didn't you also see a report about the fact that he got some sort of under Trump he received?

He was getting background

checks for work.

Yes.

Yes, he was getting background checks for work.

under the Trump administration.

Exactly.

And cleared for work, too.

Yes.

Yes.

So once again, it's another example of

doing it the

right

way, folks.

It's just so reassuring to know that there's so much competence.

Oh, yeah.

In the White House, she says dripping with sarcasm.

Yeah.

White House Press Secretary Karen Levitt has accused the senator of prioritizing this case over fighting illegal immigration

Telling reporters the mission till Al Salvador is futile, if he ever ends up back in the U.S., he will immediately be deported again.

Nothing will change the fact that Abrego Garcia will never be a Maryland father, he is, and he will never live in the United States of America again.

Wow, that's just poisonous.

That's poisonous, disgusting.

Like, once again, as you said before, we cannot admit, we are, even though we admitted we were wrong, we admitted we screwed up.

Now they're saying he will now where does he go next if he's gonna have to live the rest of his life fearful of the government even though he's here With all the right paperwork, but no not in this administration.

It doesn't matter.

We screwed up doesn't matter

He still, he runs MS13, Jane.

Never admit you were wrong.

Nope.

Never, ever admit you were wrong.

We have news coming up next and then on the other side, we're going to talk to James Vanderloo.

He heads the OEC Group in Milwaukee talking tariffs that's all on the way.

Stay with us.

You're listening to Matt Nair on air on the Civic Media Radio Network.

Welcome, welcome to Matt Nair on air.

Jane Matt Nair, the Bakinator.

On the board, that's from Andrew from Maine Calvin.

Our regular producer is off today, so we got Greg Bak on the board coming to you live from our studio here at Radio Park in Racine.

You can always join us, call or text.

The number is the same, 855-752-4842.

You can leave a comment if you're watching on the live stream on Facebook, YouTube.

and what used to be Twitter after the 11 o'clock news.

It's Friday, so Dan Schaeffer will be here from the recombobulation area.

Lots of things going on in Wisconsin.

We're going to kick around right now, though.

We are delighted to have back.

He's the head of the OEC group in Milwaukee.

James Vanderloo is joining us.

Good morning, James.

How you doing?

Jane and Greg, it is great to be with you guys and it's been a bit of a roller coaster of the last nine days or so.

It seems like it's been about a year.

No kidding.

It's amazing

how time stretches sometimes when you would rather it didn't.

James, for people who don't know, because you have been our guest numerous times before, but if you can explain what it is that the OEC group does.

Sure, so we are a logistics provider and we what we do is we work with the company's big small large and anything transportation or customs related Obviously, it's a bit more topical now with tariffs, but really that entire process from Arranging pickups at the suppliers all around the world to arranging those final delivery miles We handle every fast of that.

So whether you're doing imports exports and sort of anything in between that we're really just

specializing in that transportation aspect for companies.

Well, and obviously, because you're talking about imports and exports and the logistics of transportation, your clients are very much affected by tariffs, correct?

Oh, yes.

Oh, yes.

Specifically out of China, we saw anywhere from 50% to 60% of order cancellations.

So that's people going in, pulling containers out of the ports that were already ready at the destined for the United States.

In many cases, being sent back to their factories.

To kind of you know, and then obviously the factories are now kind of glut with with with product and yeah And again, that's that's specialized to China around the world We saw sort of similar things and everyone's just kind of it's sort of a wait and see but it's also You know people are also deciding hey, maybe it's time to ship now Because it could get worse and that's kind of I've had a lot of conversations with people and it's they're very Very varied and very diverse in terms of what people are planning to do and what businesses are planning to do

Well,

it's the common theme is gone.

Sorry.

No, please.

No, I think the common theme is is the uncertainty of it.

And how is it?

How long is it going to last?

Well, and that's just the thing, James, is there needs to be planning and there needs to be long term looking ahead long term when you run a business.

And certainly when you are importing and exporting things, you you need some some some type of certainty.

And that is the main thing that that is lacking right now.

Yeah, definitely and you know, I've the last few days I've been traveling around Wisconsin, you know from Milwaukee to Glen, Florida was cross and just Green Bay Nina speaking with people and you know, everyone's got a little bit of a take on it I think and some ways some businesses aren't really panicking to some degree some were prepared probably more than others but again kind of what we talked about in previous weeks, you know the people who were probably really gonna suffer for this or the smaller businesses who are

more tied to China and haven't really been able to, for whatever reasons, been able to sort of branch out.

The farmers is another thing we're kind of worried about.

Obviously, their soybeans, sorghum, a lot of the stuff that's sent over to China is going to be impacted by this regardless of whether we subsidize them or not.

And then I think everyone is under a general agreement that the price of things is going to go up for the consumer in the near term.

Whether you are a business that was able to be a little more nimble and you're kind of prepared for this a lot of people are still like I said sort of waiting to see if this is gonna rectify itself and the in the next couple of weeks

and that's something I want to harken back to what you talked about the last time you were here you said that you know people You know people will look and go well.

What's the big deal?

Everything is fine.

This is fine.

Everything's fine right now right now in this moment.

Everything's fine and you said yes, maybe right in this moment, but we have to look three six

12 months down the road and look at how these things have an effect on the price on the businesses.

And one of the other reasons we love talking to you, James, is because, you know, you meet with business owners and individuals of all ilk of all voting groups of all, and we're all going to be hit the same in that sense.

It doesn't matter who you voted for.

And so we have you come on and talk about the down the middle eye line on this and what's

What's going to happen with these tariffs and how they're affecting the people you're talking about on a daily basis?

And definitely and I've got to say, you know, there are some people that you know, you know have surprising takes and I really have I've In the people that I've met with I've really pretty much heard every sort of perspective and sort of take on it And it's really it is sort of interesting You know, that's the that's the thing though when you have sort of a when you take a wide Breath across all the tariffs and just do a 10% across the board

It doesn't really deter people from doing business.

All that is is simply a cost increase, and that's going to go on.

I think, again, most people are aware that the costs are going to go up.

Most businesses are preparing for it, but this is generally causing a lot more.

There's a law of unintended consequences.

Just recently, there was some strikes going on in Pakistan.

These things can start residual issues that add onto the cost.

Now you've got the, you know, the potential additional tax for ships that are Chinese on coming to the United States, which is going to further add on to the tax or further add on to the prices.

So this stuff adds up.

Obviously, we're in an inflationary cycle.

Everyone's aware of that, regardless of your political stance.

And, you know, it doesn't seem like there's going to be any relief in sight in the short term.

Just to clarify, since we have you here, who is it James that pays tariffs?

Well, it's directly, it's the business that's importing, but then typically that is passed on to the end consumer.

And I think it will be more so this time than with COVID or any other time before then.

There's just the margins have reached a level where it doesn't seem sustainable if you just eat that entire charge.

I just want to say this real slowly.

China sends things to America.

The people who are importing the Chinese goods pay the tariffs, not China.

And then, unfortunately, a lot of those costs get passed on to American consumers,

right?

Correct.

And the thing where that argument comes from, where the China pays for it, is because a lot of times the factories will do.

is they will try to subsidize the price of their product, they'll lower the price of their product and make a deal with some of their importers.

But the problem is that that's been happening for the past five years.

The Chinese suppliers in a lot of ways are beginning squeezed on their end, so they don't really have much room to go down anymore.

And so, yeah, that's why I'm kind of saying the brunt of these additional tariffs will be borne by most likely the consumer.

vis-a-vis the employer.

If you're just joining us, James Vanderloo is our guest.

He's the head of the OEC Group in Milwaukee.

They handle logistics for companies that are importing and exporting and getting goods here and there and knows very much about tariffs and how this is affecting businesses.

To go back to the farmers a little bit, James, and we have had several on the show as well.

The Trump administration once again talking about cutting farmers checks because these tariffs are going to hurt them, particularly with soybeans and sorghum that you had mentioned.

When this happened last time, and again, the farmers got bailed out by the Trump administration, but they lost a big market share to other countries that has not come back to America, right?

Our soybean farmers lost a chunk of their market share to countries like Brazil.

Yes, and that's kind of what's what you're gonna see right now The world's a little different than in the past and I think a lot of these companies and a lot of these countries have a We are reexamining their supply chains before before kind of coven and before everything over the past five years You know supply chains.

We're just kind of operating behind the background It's getting a lot more attention people are looking at it and you know The US has has predominantly been you know, it's fed the world with a lot of various things like you mentioned soybeans is a great one

I think we used to sell China around, I think, 98% of their soybeans.

Now it's down to like 60%.

So you're right, it hasn't come back.

And obviously this will probably have a little bit of a detriment to that overall total too.

Because once you get these new supply lanes set up, once you get the alternative sources set up, why go back?

Unless there's a really great reason.

And then I think one of the things you have to look long term with our deals is, yeah, maybe in the short term, this might benefit us.

If we lose that leverage or if something happens beyond, you know, I just hope that the retaliation doesn't come back to retaliate against us is the only thing that I'd kind of be cautious of.

One of the things James, we've spoken to you about too is, you know, one of the, the main driver has seemed to be the push to bring manufacturing back to the United States, which I don't think there's a person in this country who wouldn't say, that's great.

Let's, let's bring back as much as possible.

Let's build, you know, family sustaining jobs, good pay.

benefits, retirement, the whole, the whole kitten caboodle, but they speak of it like it's going to be, all right, tariffs are on Tuesday, manufacturing starts next week.

Can you give from your opinion and your experience, I should say, how long it would take for just one factory to be built from the decision to be here in the United States?

Like if one of your companies who has a factory in Mexico says, you know, we're bringing everything here.

they would have to build from maybe scratch.

How long does that process actually take?

If I'm most optimistic, everything goes perfectly.

If you're able to have no problems with, uh, you know, getting land, building things, uh, getting capital costs, getting all your loans, everything like that.

I'd say a minimum two years.

I mean, that's, that's the very, very minimum assuming everything goes.

And by, by Donald Trump's own admission, I think he's, he's mentioned that you're probably looking at any more, more from like three to four years for most industries.

And then if you're looking at advanced industries like the semiconductors, you're looking at probably about 10 years.

And really, the problem is that we're doing this largely without sort of having the Chinese manufacturing blueprint.

So we don't really have a lot of the infrastructure in place.

And additionally, beyond just that industrial footprint that we'd have to establish, which is going to take, like I said, four years plus, what about the electrical grid and the energy infrastructure that has to go on to support all of that?

We don't really have anything close to that right now at the moment.

And as we've known, inflationary costs are causing capital expenses to go up.

So the people with the money are going to be a little bit less likely to spend it.

Again, this is probably going to be something that's highly subsidized in order to bridge that gap with the rising cost.

So I mean, I'd say, like I said, everything perfect two years, probably more like four years, probably more like five to six for most companies.

And then we have to figure out who's going to work there.

Because the unemployment rate, the unemployment rate is low.

So again, it's all you game playing couch sitting kids apparently that need to step up and enter the workforce.

At least that seems to be one explanation on how we're going to be running all these factories.

Cindy from Appleton is on the line.

Good morning, Cindy.

Thanks for joining us.

What did you want to say about this?

Well, I have a couple things.

First of all, we do have a lot of vacant buildings.

I know we have some here in Appleton that are large, old manufacturing companies.

Could be retrofitted, redone.

But the point is, these companies are not going to spend the money and bring back all the cheap, I mean, you know, give up the cheap labor for expensive labor.

They're just not going to do that.

All they care about is their bottom line.

And yesterday, Mark Polkhan was talking about the tariffs.

He would be all for tariffs.

on the cheap steel coming in from China.

So I guess I'm a little confused.

How does that work?

Because if it's coming in from China, are they paying the tariffs or are we paying the tariffs?

I guess I'm a little confused after listening to you talk about all that work.

Well, China doesn't pay the tariffs, Cindy.

The company that is importing the goods from China is the one that pays the tariffs and then

Unfortunately, they tend to bump up their costs, which get passed on to us, the consumers.

We're right up against the break.

We will come back with James Vanderloo, the head of the OEC Group in Milwaukee.

Stay with us.

You were listening to Matt Nair on air.

This is the Civic Media Radio Network.

We'll be right back.

Good morning.

Welcome.

Welcome back to Matt Nair on air.

Jane Matt Nair and Greg Bach coming to you live from our studio here at Radio Park in Racine.

You can always join us.

You can call, you can text, the number is the same.

It's 855-752-4842.

Leave a comment if you're watching on the live stream on Facebook, YouTube, and what used to be Twitter.

Coming up next hour, Dan Schaefer from the Recon Population Area and also Civic Media's political editor will be joining us in studio.

Lots of things to talk about happening in Wisconsin, including, ooh, there was some yelling, ooh, at the...

at the Wisconsin Elections Commission.

You know, it gets really heated

there.

I didn't know.

Things got that, got that tense.

But yes, we'll have an update on that.

So stay tuned for that.

And also, as we always do, we wrap up the show with this shouldn't be a thing.

Today it is the fire is finally out edition.

Hopefully this will be the last of the earth.

This is that has been a two-part series

so far.

We should really we should really submit this for WBA for continuing coverage.

Continuing coverage.

I like that idea maybe next year.

Yeah, but yes join us for tizbet as we call it this shouldn't be a thing coming up at 1151 right now We are joined by James Vanderloo who is the head of the OEC group in Milwaukee and we've been talking about tariffs and Trying to get manufacturing back into the United States and James you had mentioned that

Ideally, say all permitting goes great.

Everything is smooth as silk.

Even if that were the case, it's gonna take a year or two at least to get any new manufacturing up and running.

And then one of our listeners on the live stream, King Ratts says, even if factories come back, the products are gonna cost 150 to 200% more than they do now.

You think the factories are gonna raise wages?

by 200% that seems unlikely.

Yeah, certainly.

I know a lot of people are doing the math on like using the iPhone as example, you know, you're going up from a thousand to, you know, adding an extra $3,000, $4,000 on top of that cost.

And then again, you know, kind of what I was going back to saying, we're doing all of this by using all of the inputs that are now at a higher rate to, you know, even if you want a retrofit.

those vacant warehouses or whether you want to start from scratch, you're doing it at a higher price to begin with.

And my thought based on the society that we kind of live in is that I think if businesses are going to do that, they're going to want to have one large capital cost.

I would imagine that's probably going to be highly automated in a lot of ways.

And then you kind of really have to make that.

We make this assumption that there's going to be a one-to-one manufacturing thing.

We're going to have a bunch of people.

you know, working in the supply lines, but I would imagine a lot of these things with AI and everything like that are probably going to be highly automated and it's going to be more of supervisor type of things, but it really depends on the industry and it really depends on what's coming back.

But yeah, we have no one's really done that math to really see if it's going to work out.

Well, and one of the things too, I'm thinking about as well is, you know, these companies, if they're coming into cities or, I mean, taking, for example, like we're seeing in Kenosha, things like Microsoft, Foxconn,

Eli Lilly, if they're going to come and build, they're also going to be looking for, uh, you know, tax rebates and things like that, cutting deals.

And that cut that cost the state, the city, the county money, and that money comes out of our pocket.

So I imagine, like you said, like, if they're going to, if they're going to focus on manufacturing, they're going to want to try to find one big, one big egg to get, but also from our experience with Foxconn, we, we

put those shovels in the ground, we said, oh my gosh, all the jobs, all the money.

And now here we are.

And luckily, Microsoft is coming to take up some of the land.

But it's, I guess what I'm trying to say with what you were talking about, James, and what Jane is talking about as well, it is so much more nuanced than we can possibly imagine.

Cause like, I don't work in this industry and I know very little, but it seems like it's not just going to be flip a light switch on everybody, get to work.

And everything's fixed.

Yep, we're in a little bit of the Wild West in the sense that, yeah, obviously nothing like this has kind of happened before.

There wasn't really a plan in place kind of before setting up this to happen.

Yeah, I think in a lot of ways there's just so much uncertainty and that's when I know that again, businesses aren't a big fan of that.

And they're also not a big fan of like geopolitical strife and everything that's kind of goes along with the trade war.

Well, and now the latest thing that the Trump administration is floating is firing Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell because he won't lower interest rates.

And if that would happen, I can't imagine that's going to sit well with businesses either.

No, and it's kind of one of those really tough things is we've had such a low interest rates for a long time and you know again We're battling inflation and now there's more inflationary pressure and really the the main tools that the Federal Reserve have are to increase the interest rates

and

thereby trying to decrease the inflation That's kind of what the prescription typically is so if we if you kind of get into that moment where you've got you know Downer pressure on the rates and you got a lot of stuff then you get in a very stagnant economy and that's that's kind of in some ways even worse

than anything else.

Inflation was a complaint under the Biden administration.

Removing Jerome Powell or getting someone in there who is going to lower interest rates is only going to worsen the inflationary problem, correct?

Correct.

Your dollars become less valuable under that scenario.

Correct.

James Vanderloo, it's so enlightening when we talk to you.

Maybe down the road, we can have you back just to talk about other fun things.

Do you have a hobby, James?

We'd like to talk about your family and stuff.

We'll get around.

Hey, when I go home, it's sunshine and rainbows.

Everything else is for me.

James Vanderleuth,

the head of the

OEC group in Milwaukee.

Thank you so very much for your time, James, and we'll touch base again in the next couple of weeks.

Have a great weekend y'all.

Thank you so much.

You too.

News is coming up next when we return.

Dan Shaper will be here from the recombobulation area.

I hope you can stay with us.

You're listening to Matt Nair on air.

This is the Civic Media Radio Network.

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7524842.

Leave a comment if you're watching on the live stream on Facebook, YouTube and what used to be Twitter.

We got baseball action coming up later on today.

Our broadcast starting at 635 with the A's at the Brewers.

You can listen to the game, but you have to listen to the actual radio.

not on the stream.

You can catch the game tonight, starting at 6 35 on W R C E in Richland Center, W I S S and Oshkosh W R J N here in Racine and Kenosha W C Q M in Park Falls and our newest Milwaukee Brewers affiliate W B Z H.

in Hayward the A's at the crew today with a 635 start.

It's Friday.

That means it's time for some re-combobulation area.

The creator of said re-combobulation area and also Civic Media's political editor, Den Shaffer, in studio.

Nice to see you.

In studio, in race scene, on a Friday.

On a Friday.

Very excited to be re-combobulating with you, fine folks, on Matt and Air, on air.

Did you guys have hail in Milwaukee before you headed down?

There was a lot of rain.

I don't know if we got any hail.

I didn't see any.

If we got some, it melted right into the water.

We had some

pea-sized hail, I think, for just a little bits here in Racine.

But we do have more weather coming later on this afternoon, everybody.

So I would just advise you to keep up on that.

And they're talking about...

What, Brittney Merleau this morning, Greg, on Patch Show was talking about potentially 70 mile an hour wind gusts.

Oh my goodness.

And

the potential for tornadoes as well later on today.

So just a heads up, keep an eye out on the weather.

We want everybody to be safe.

That's right.

Be safe out there, folks.

Lots and lots of things to talk about with you today.

Let's start with the Wisconsin Supreme Court ruling that came.

Pretty much right before we jumped on the air.

Yeah, that's the big news this morning the Wisconsin Supreme Court Has ruled that governor evers 2023 partial vetoes extending per student funding increases for school districts for 402 years Did not violate the state constitution the four three liberal majority?

It was you know kind of a long ideological lines right this this opinion was released this morning And there you go

Big big big deal for many many school districts around the state of Wisconsin You know, I had a couple people reach out to me this week that's saying that we're really watching this I bet and That's this is a huge huge deal

Okay, I have to say even I thought that this was a little sneaky The way that the governor did this wasn't illegal These these partial vetoes have been there for a long time,

right?

But the Wisconsin governor is given pretty sweeping partial veto power over the budget And that's what this came from but that this took a lot of folks by surprise Yeah, and just to refresh people's memory basically what he did here was delete you kind of like strike out a couple numbers in you know the increases for the 2024-25 school year right well, it's strike it's struck through some of the

Digits and the dash to not be the 2024 25 school year, but to be the 24 25 school year.

So the year 2425 So it is weird.

It's very weird, but it as the court ruled today It's not illegal, but I don't think it is necessarily

the right way to go be going about doing things.

Like I think the justices in the oral arguments, and I haven't had a chance had had a chance to really dig through the majority opinion on this.

But I think there is kind of this broader acknowledgement that this is a weird way of going about doing things, but that Evers did not, you know, he followed the law with this partial video veto.

And I, and it is going to be interesting to see the reaction from, you know, some of the, the

conservatives and republicans in wisconsin particularly those in the legislature i'm talking about a certain assembly speaker who will use any little piece of you know the government apparatus to his advantage and just like they would absolutely be doing something like

this

if it was going towards their political goals that goals they would find any loophole in the system so you know i guess if evers is going to do this and it is allowed

in the state constitution is the Wisconsin Supreme Court just ruled it's good to be doing that to fund schools like to that end right if you're going to you know use an obscure method to you know to do something in the state budget do it to the the means to the end of

funding funding schools public schools yeah

it's it's not like this was a self-serving i'm going to vote myself a raise for the next four thousand years

exactly

now this this governor evers increased the revenue limit for school districts by three hundred and twenty five dollars per student

the governor turned this into 2023 to 24, 25, again by those creative edits

and

hyphen in there.

And I don't disagree with you that given the opportunity, the Republicans would absolutely do this.

Right.

Right.

And they know how to, you know, Robin Voss knows how to manipulate the levers of power in Wisconsin.

And for Evers to, you know, kind of pull

pull this one that I think took a lot of people by surprise when he, you know, cause like this, this is how the kind of the budget process has worked in Wisconsin.

While Evers has been governor, the Republicans will pass a budget and Evers will use his sweeping power.

So it's just like there's an expectation that some things are going to be partial vetoed

out of

any Republican past budget.

I think this one took a lot of them by surprise.

And that's why it became a case before the Wisconsin Supreme court, you know, Brian Haggadorn, the kind of

wing vote conservative, not the hard line right-winger of the court.

He delivered a pretty scathing... That many people were hoping for, by the way.

That many people were hoping for.

He delivered a pretty scathing dissent on this one.

He had a lot to say about this.

So, you know, like I said, this came down along ideological lines and this is, you know, why people voted for a 4-3 liberal majority in the state.

But again, I think it warrants...

revisiting this from a legislative standpoint, from an executive branch standpoint, there's even been talked about another one of these constitutional amendments that would go before the voters to address this type of thing.

This doesn't seem like the best way to go about doing things, but again, it doesn't seem like Evers.

violated the Constitution in doing so.

I mean, that's the thing I'm worried about is the consequences that will come from the Republican side.

And Weston Middleton said it, I think, very, very well.

Listen, WMDX says, don't hate the player, hate the game.

Republicans have been playing games like this with our state for decades.

And he's not wrong.

No, he's not.

And they get to get away with it because they walk away and say, do something.

And as you put it, Dan, if Tony Evers is going to play a game, at least he's funding education.

So there you go.

Right, it's not like he's bending the rules to give nearly $3 million to Michael Gabelman to try to review the 2020 election.

He's bending the rules, not even bending the rules.

A controversial use of the partial veto, yes, but a constitutional one as the court has ruled today.

Speaking of Michael Gabelman, Daniel Beiss has a great piece in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel about the rise and fall of Daniel Gabelman, which is worth just as a side note, if you're looking for some amusing reading.

There's

a good long read out there.

It's a good long read.

What do you think the next step is going to be, again, other than you think it's going to go to a constitutional amendment?

You know, there's been talk of that.

But I think for the immediate future, schools don't have to worry about their funding going down.

But I do think there will, I think there will be an impetus on

legislators on the governor on, you know, whoever is opposed to this to revisit what's happening here, because I don't think this is the ideal way to go about it.

Dan Schaefer is here from the re-combobulation area also civic media's political editor.

It's Fridays.

That's when we spend time doing some re-combobulating.

I did want to spend a discombobulating week.

We all need to

re-combobulate

a

long year of a week Really has the Wisconsin examiner Henry Redman with the byline elections Commission discussion of lost ballots ends in shouting match Sure did

Brian Spindel, Bob Spindel, Bob, Brian, you know.

We're reconpopulating.

We're reconpopulating.

Bob Spindel is still on the Wisconsin Elections Commission, even though he was one of the fake electors.

That whole thing, nothing happened to Wisconsin's fake electors.

There have been consequences for this, these same people in other states.

but not here.

But apparently they were having a meeting, the Wisconsin Elections Commission, having a meeting about the ballots in Madison that did not get counted in this latest election.

That

led to the Madison clerk resigning.

It's been a whole thing.

It's worth having a meeting about for the Wisconsin Elections

Commission.

It was 200 ballots, not enough to swing anything, but still it is a concern.

They were looking at it justifiably so.

But you have an agenda when you have these kinds of meetings.

And if you want to talk about a particular issue, it needs to be on the agenda.

That's not what happened with Bob Spindel.

Quote, I think it's fine we're doing this investigation of the city of Madison, the misplacement of some ballots and then not properly following through.

where they were found, but then he switched over to a more serious problem about Milwaukee.

They

just got a scapegoat Milwaukee.

Absolutely.

And the ballot dumps, which are not rogue ballots, just showing up out of nowhere.

It's because the Republican led legislature would not allow clerks to start counting on the day of the election.

Correct.

Mm-hmm.

They have to wait until eight o'clock.

Mm-hmm.

On the day of.

On the day of elections.

I think Wisconsin is, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania are the only two states in the country that have to wait until the day of to cut their absolute balance.

So when

you hear Republicans screeching about ballot dumps in Milwaukee, they had a way to rectify that.

They chose not to do that so they can continue to go back to this old trope about all these rogue ballots just showing up out of nowhere, even though that is not true.

Mm-hmm.

And I think it was it's interesting to think about like the the central count stuff for the spring election here, you know, they the Milwaukee was running low on ballots They didn't run out as as I think he was suggesting and some of the Spindel was suggesting some of those comments But like Ron Johnson was popping off on Twitter about this in Milwaukee and Republican State Representative Scott Krug who I interviewed last year He's from he's he was that he was the former chair of the Assembly's elections committee and he was

the Republican on that side actually trying to make the change to allow for the early count?

He was the Republican advancing the bill along with his Democratic counterpart, Lee Snodgrass.

They were the assembly representatives who passed this bill, essentially, and then it got stalled in the Senate.

But he came out and said, like, I was at Central Count.

There was nothing going on.

Exactly.

People who were

actually there, even Republicans.

You can't trust them.

We're going to continue our conversation with Dan Schaefer from the Recombobulation Area.

Stay with us.

You are listening to Matt Nair on air.

This is the Civic Media Radio Network.

Stay with us.

We'll be right back.

Good morning and welcome back.

To Matt Nair on air, Jane Matt Nair and Greg Bach coming to you live from our studio here at Radio Park.

In Racine, you can join us, call or text the number is the same.

855-752-4842.

Leave a comment if you're watching on the live stream on Facebook, YouTube and what used to be Twitter.

Dan Schaefer is here from the Reconpopulation Area and also Civic Media's political editor right before the break.

We were talking about this slightly yell-y.

meeting of the Wisconsin Election Commission Bob Spindel trying to spout off about again casting more aspersions on the elections in Milwaukee and trying to accuse Milwaukee officials of being fraudulent and doing things that are not legal That's not the case before Bob Spindel could finish what he was saying the head of the Wisconsin Election Commission and Jacobs banged the gavel

said she was ruling his comment out of order.

Spindel just got louder and louder and louder.

And so they were just talking over each other and yelling over each other until eventually Spindel must have gotten tired and said, I've said what I needed to say.

And that was it.

Great way to do business.

Isn't it though?

Well, I'm done.

I've said everything.

I'm out of here by everybody, you know, just that's what I imagine him doing.

Is there

there is no process to remove him?

Is there?

it would be up to the people who appointed him.

So because of the way these appointments work, he is the appointment of the Senate Republicans.

Devin Lemahue reappointed Bob Spindel to the Wisconsin elections commission after he served as one of those fake electors.

And there have been many calls over the years for Lemahue to remove him as a member of the Wisconsin elections commission.

And for four years now, he has not.

Any probably isn't going to any time soon.

No, no.

I wanted to move on to this as well.

It just seems like there's lots of tensions now within the Wisconsin Republican Party.

Those who are not quite mega enough versus those who are super mega.

This is from the whist politics.

State GOP now sets code of conduct creates process to remove party officials.

who violates standards.

What do you know about this, Dan Shafer?

It's an interesting story, isn't

it?

Yes.

Republican, they do seem to have, there does seem to be some sort of disconnect between leadership and the grassroots.

And

like what exactly they want to, you know, kind of prioritize within all of their, you know, kind of party apparatus and the leadership and all of that.

I know there was some like strange behavior happening last fall, particularly in Sheboygan County.

There was

like a party chair who was not supporting the assembly candidate there and wouldn't distribute their yards.

signs or back them or whatever.

And then, you know, Sheboygan having a fair district map for the first time in more than a decade, elected a Democrat to that seat.

So I think that might have something to do with what happened there, but it does seem like there's some issue between like the actual Wisconsin Republican, the Republican party of Wisconsin, with GOP, whatever, and certain county party chairs or whatever.

And they seem to have.

needed to pass certain bylaws to, I guess, quote, remove offenders.

Laying out a process to remove offenders.

I don't know exactly what that's going to mean.

That seems pretty broad.

Or what would actually find offensive within the Republican party

in this day and age.

That's a good question, too.

I have a feeling the things that normal everyday folks, especially here from Wisconsin, would find offensive, they wouldn't.

Things, you know, like...

criminal records and criminal activity and things of that nature.

They're like, that's fine.

Don't worry about that.

Wait a minute.

You said, what about who now?

Brian Hagedorn.

You're not Republican enough.

Get out of here.

You know what I mean?

But it does seem to me that we have some long, long standing Republicans who have been part of the Wisconsin Republican Party for a really long time.

And now we have again, more of the manga actors who are like, your time has come and gone.

You need to get out of here because you're not loyal enough.

The mag actors are probably right though.

Like within the context of this, like maybe the party brass isn't is reflective of the grassroots.

The rest grassroots in Wisconsin seems for the Republican party seems to be super duper Trumpy.

It does.

So I don't know.

Maybe, uh, maybe that's gonna, you know, will this lead to more conflict?

Within that, I think that's what I'm wondering.

If creating these types of things, are they creating a situation that they...

It's going to get really

ugly.

It's going to get out of

control,

yeah.

And get ugly.

Well, also, I think there'll be a hypocrisy and enforcement too.

One will do the other will and be like, oh, that guy is fine because of X, Y, and Z. The other guy, A, B, and C, get

him out of here.

He's got to go.

Exactly.

State GOP has for the first time set a code of conduct to allow the removal of local party officials

for actions like sexually, verbally, or physically harassing fellow Republicans.

Only fellow Republicans, though.

Yes, yes, yes.

What?

The new bylaws laying out the process supports the right of members to choose local leaders.

Those heading county and congressional district offices should be working in coordination to achieve the Republican Party of Wisconsin's goals and missions.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out, and I think you make a good point, Greg, as far as how evenly these punishments and removals will be handled.

That should be fascinating going forward.

Yeah, especially the whole verbal, sexual, or physical harassment.

I mean, isn't that like most of Trump's cabinets?

I mean, I know it's not Wisconsin, but like that idea that you would use that guideline in this era seems almost laughable because

What's going to happen?

How are you going to, how are you going to do this?

Yeah, it's just like, are they going to get a cabinet party, an official party endorsement?

If they do these things, it's, you know, it's going to be interesting to see how this plays out.

We have news coming up next.

And then when we return, we're going to slide into our segment that we'd like to call Audio Sorbet, where we lighten things up just a little bit for the last half an hour of the show.

We're going to talk about the bucks.

and the playoffs.

And also the NFL draft.

We talked about that yesterday.

That's coming up next week.

And it might not be the big financial boon that Green Bay was hoping for.

We'll talk about that next on the other side.

So stay close.

You are listening to Matt Nair on air on the Civic Media Radio Network.

Welcome to Cleveland.

Hope before we relax a weekend, once I get strapped in the tube tent, wheels up and we'll be rocking, getting out of frozen Wisconsin.

Good

morning.

Welcome back to Matt Nair on air.

Jane Matt Nair and Greg Bach coming to you live.

From our studio here at Radio Park in Racine, you can join us, you can call, you can text.

The number is the same, 855-752-4842.

Leave a comment if you're watching on the live stream, on Facebook, YouTube, and what used to be Twitter.

And thank you, Dan Schaefer, bringing all the Schaefer heads along with you on the live stream.

Schaefer heads?

Schaefer heads?

We call them recombobulators.

Oh, is that?

I'm sorry.

I apologize.

I always said recombobulance.

Oh, I like that too.

That's pretty good.

That's pretty good.

Shirts, he needs shirts for that.

Dan Schaefer is here from the Reconpopulation Area, also Civic Media's political editor.

And stay with us too.

We will wrap up the show as we always do.

With this shouldn't be a thing.

Today it's the fire is finally out edition, we hope.

And also a reminder, we have some

lineup changes coming next week.

Starting on Wednesday, things going to be a little bit different across the network.

Pam Yankee will be starting things off from five to six a.m.

with a Midwest Farm report.

She is the fabulous farm babe.

And then Pat Crite low mornings with Pat Crite low powered by Up North News from six to nine.

Greg and Calvin and I moving up an hour next Wednesday.

We will be on the air from nine to 11 11 to two.

Tom Hartman takes over.

until Todd Alba is back at two from two to four.

Maggie Dawn then from four to six.

Nightlight with Pete Schwabba staying in its regular slot six to eight PM.

Earl Ingram remaining with Civic Media.

He's going to be doing a lot of special podcasts and some deeper dives into things.

And Earl will be appearing all over the network with different hosts on different shows.

And also fans of John and Gordy in Madison on WMDX and Mano and the Mayor.

on WGBW in Green Bay, they will keep their shows as well.

So just to give you a little heads up, these changes starting on Wednesday, April 23rd.

Gonna lighten things up a little bit for our segment we call Audio Sorbet.

Can't talk about news all the time.

Gotta take a break.

Little cleansing breath, a little cleanse for your ears.

Exactly.

And we'll talk a little bit about sports.

You're a Big Bucks fan.

I am playoffs.

Here we go.

I know.

I don't you're not going to win.

Jane.

Hey, Jane, let him have this moment.

All right.

The playoffs.

I'm very

excited about the

playoffs.

It is before game one.

So

anything could happen.

Jane Mattenair.

Okay.

That's true.

You know, I'm coming in hopeful.

Uh, the, the bucks entering the post season as the five seed in the Eastern conference will face the Indiana Pacers, uh, four or five game series, the same team they faced in the playoffs last year.

The bucks were eliminated by the.

Pacers last year, Yanis was injured and everyone was injured and the Bucks still managed to pick up a couple of games, win a couple of

games.

Chris Middleton

played great in the playoffs last year.

He is no longer on the Milwaukee Bucks this year, unfortunately.

But you know what?

I don't like to make predictions about.

the playoffs because, as my wife will tell you, whenever somebody asks me what my prediction is for the Bucks or for whatever, she's like, don't talk.

You're a huge

jinx.

You're a huge jinx.

You're not allowed

to talk

about

anything.

So I'm not here to come and make any predictions.

My guiding principle with anything, anytime anybody asks me about what's happening with the Bucks, about what I think is going to happen, my thing is,

As long as we have Yanis, I like our chances.

But didn't Damian Lillard, like they're making a big deal.

Damian Lillard is cleared for playing.

They're saying it's miraculous.

It's next level.

He's back.

What do you think?

You know, use, use your Bucks fan weathered brain.

What do you think?

Well, I do think it is pretty significant that they are coming out and saying that he is cleared for basketball activities, right?

And

so he's not going to play game one, but he is cleared for basketball activities.

We could see him in games two, three, four, beyond whatever, you know, I think just.

you know, maybe he won't be playing 40 minutes or something like that.

It might be,

it might not

be matching Yannis' minute totals

for the

course of the game or whatever it might be.

But the fact that he's going to be in the mix, I mean, the Bucks are a very like kind of top heavy roster.

They have, they're paying, you know, a ton of money to, to Yannis, to Dame Lillard.

And then after that, there's kind of a big drop off to the rest of the roster.

And, you know, who, I think an interesting question about this series is like, who is the Bucks second best player?

If Damian Lillard is not playing, I don't really have a

great answer.

for that

one.

But I think the fact that he could get back into the mix is interesting.

I just hope this isn't another one of those things like last year with Yanis.

They're just where they were saying, Hey, if we make it to game seven, if we make it to game six, maybe he'll be back or whatever.

Just, just tell me what you're doing.

Like I know that there's like the gamesmanship of this and they don't want Indiana to know they want them to have to like over game plan.

If he's going to be there, if he's not going to be there

to change your plan.

Yeah.

And it's just like, all right, just enough of that.

Just tell me who's going to play.

Well, my biggest concern is we would hate to see Dan get re-injured.

Yeah.

You know, the injury because it's an ankle injury, right?

Well, he had the ankle, this one

had to do with blood clots.

So he was, he had it.

Yeah.

So

there, he's battled a bunch of injuries this year, but like this was the, I forget the, I'm not going to try on the medical diagnosis, the terminology here, but there was like a blood clot issue and he was on blood thinners for the past few weeks.

And so like he wasn't allowed to, you know, really ramp up conditioning

or

whatever like that.

But they said he's off the blood thinners that he's back and cleared to four basketball activities.

And so like,

You know, game one, he's not going to be there.

Okay.

Uh, that'll be in Indiana on, uh, Saturday afternoon, uh, excited for that one, getting together, watching the

game.

Yeah.

Damian Lillard was diagnosed with a deep vein thrombosis.

That's right.

That's what it was.