Rollin’ & Racin’ (Hour 2)

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Coming to Northeast Wisconsin live from the Civic Media Studios, this is Mino and the Mayor.

And here are your hosts, John Minow and Jim Schmidt.

Hey, thank you very much.

Welcome back.

My name here, hour number two, 97.9 FM, WGBW 98.3, 96.5 FM.

WISS, of course, the Civic Media app, mostly cloudy with showers and storms high in the upper 70s today.

We got a thing here from Todd.

Todd, can you read that one?

Well, that's a nice,

Todd.

This makes a lot of sense.

I bet Todd is speaking for a lot of people.

Todd from Depeer says, since this shipping thing is never going to happen, I'll throw my name in the hat.

How's that birdhouse from 20 years ago coming along, John?

Yep.

Also another one, Vinny says I'd pay to watch Mino Log Rule.

There you go.

Michael Freeman says, Lisa from Simple Life will help J.M., meaning Mino.

Also, can she sell her quiche at Johnny Juice?

There you go.

Yes, yes.

She does have good quiche.

And by the way, okay, my buddy, Knob.

Yeah.

He found when he's cleaning out like his dad's place, a shoe box from Air Jordans, like an original shoe box.

All right.

Read how much he got for that.

Wow,

$1,500

for a shoebox!

I got shoeboxes like you can't believe.

So does Jim, but they've got $1,500 in him.

Yeah.

From

back, from back when he was mayor.

We're talking, we're talking earlier, this log rolling thing.

I really wouldn't get you, but we're just talking about three

rivers, Rolio log rolling event coming up in Howard on July 12th.

We were just talking about side hustle money.

That's how we got into this eBay, all that kind of jobs are authors.

So he's going to sell his books.

And anyway, but this log rolling thing, it's, there's a little buzz out there for this.

You've been getting some.

exposure on it.

Yeah, we are very excited to be in Brown County for the first time and for our 17th annual Three Rivers Rolio.

I did not know you were talking about where people could go to train for this.

I didn't realize there were training centers in the Green Bay area.

Yeah, absolutely.

People can give it a shot at the YMCA's if you look it up or the Kroc Center.

That's amazing.

So what is like, I guess training is what sense of balance.

Don't get on the log.

There's gotta be other things you do before you get on the log.

Like, what is training?

Well, training for the amateurs, you sign up out of YMCA.

Amateur meaning child or adult.

Adults can absolutely learn.

Don't worry, I dragged my boyfriend now, husband, into trying this.

So any age can come out and try it.

It's getting on a log in a pool as the first type of training.

Now professionals are going to cross train, they're going to sprint, they're going to do strength training, they're going to do all your normal training than an athlete would.

But the number one thing that they want to do is make sure they're on a log.

I can stop doing that.

I'm guys getting ready for this

thing.

I didn't know there were professional log rollers.

No.

Is that like a professional circuit?

There is a professional circuit.

There's a governing body, and we are just coming off the U.S.

Loggerly Open in Gladstone, Michigan, headed here.

One more event on Sunday, and then the World Championships.

You're in a little Beatty Knock, were you up there?

No.

That's on the Lake Michigan up there?

No, we're

not.

We're in Gladstone.

They have a place for this.

Van Cleave Park.

Oh, sure.

And the harbor.

Oh, very cool.

When you train...

Do you train with someone right off the bat because I gotta believe it's different if you train by yourself and then get somebody else jumps on there

Yeah, it's very different.

So at the Y I mean most people are gonna get in class and they want to get on the log with someone But we'll spend in a 45 minute class will spend 35 minutes doing stuff by themselves and then because they will all we want to Challenge another person you want to be the last one standing really that's that's the goal of any of it We'll let them start rolling against

people very young.

Do they have real little cleats on the shoes?

So professionals do have spikes on their shoes.

Okay.

The amateurs and the why?

No, we don't put spikes in the pools.

Okay.

Is it, do they wear shoes or can you go barefoot?

So amateurs in pools go barefoot, and their logs are carpeted or synthetic, and so you'll go barefoot.

You're not on the log for a long time when you're starting to learn, and so they'll go barefoot.

As you progress and you're up there for a longer time, we'll add a ton of shoe, and then the pros go to the barewoods and wear spike shoes.

So they, I

mean, when the pros do the actual logs, I mean, it's like a log,

right?

Yep, they are actual logs.

Amateurs do too, but they're wrapped in carpet.

But this is like outdoor carpeting or something, or just carpet.

Okay, the question was, can they bump each other?

No, there is a center line.

Boy, that looks pretty

good.

They're pretty close, this one

picture.

This picture

you

showed

us is

like one arm,

but you don't just say that.

So there's incidental contact.

So if you're both flaring your arm and you hit each other, that's called incidental.

There's no intent behind it, and that's fine.

If you reach across and push your competitor, the other person automatically wins that fall.

You cannot intentionally push them off the log.

It's a sparring match.

You would

never argue incidental versus

intentional.

So, okay, you're facing opposite directions, right?

It depends.

Okay, yeah, explain that again.

Okay, so every roller, just like you have a right-handed person, right-footed person, left hand, every roller is going to pick a shoulder, right shoulder or left shoulder.

So if I'm a right shoulder, rolling another right shoulder roller, to watch each other's feet, we face opposite directions.

So one of us has to run backwards on this.

14 inch to 12 inch diameter log and the other person gets to go forward and then you're battling back and forth to take control of that log It's a little bit more strength match and you're gonna see That battle for control and then if I'm a right shoulder drooling a left shoulder droler Then it's a running match.

So you're gonna run more across the body of water because you're both gonna want to go forward There'll be some back in there.

So it just depends if Who you're matched up against in the bracket?

So if you're if a right is going against the left, so it's gonna be one

forward, one backwards.

How do you decide that?

Do you flip a coin?

Cause wouldn't you rather run forward?

No, it's a battle of your feet.

You got your, your feet, your spikes are on that log.

And so you're going to fight to be the one to run forward or backwards.

And sometimes you'll be the smaller roller and you just have to see the

people like, you know, talk about a dominant hand, obviously in dominant eye.

Do people have a dominant foot?

Do they have dominant feet?

Uh, they can.

Yeah.

I think I

do like a kicker.

I mean a field goal kicker is gonna have a dominant foot They're not gonna kick one field goal with their right and one with their left

good point good point good point I didn't think of that, but now let me ask you this in the professional Game yeah of this you said the world championship is in Hayward correct these We used to call lumberjack competitions.

They've become really popular.

Haven't they?

Yeah, they still are Wow

We're growing and

spreading.

I remember when White Rolled to Sports did a thing on him one time.

I was more than one time and I competed in the very final great outdoor games and then the Steel Timbers.

I'm White Rolled to Sports?

Yeah.

No kidding.

I was down to Florida, running the boom.

Oh my gosh, that's awesome.

How long were you on the log?

Like, is it seconds a minute?

So...

The rolling can be anywhere from a 20 second match to 20 minutes.

Is there

a time when it's like, come on, like a baseball game?

Or is there no scoring?

Yeah, there's scoring.

So it's bracket style tournament, double elimination.

And so a match is best of five.

So you have to beat the other competitor.

three times in order to win.

So if that happens, boom, boom, boom, match over in an early round, later rounds, when you're getting the semifinals and finals, and even the early rounds can run longer.

And there's also log sizes.

So the men will start on 15 inch in diameter.

And every time you hit a time limit, so men is one minute, three minute, five minute, they move down to one inch in diameter.

So now the log spins faster, so you get more action.

So there is also the- Oh, that's

cool.

What makes it spin faster?

Well, the diameter.

Oh, ice, okay, okay.

You drop the diameter and it'll spin faster.

Ah,

so, hmm, I just want to talk about the length of this.

You said that it can be for 20 minutes, but eventually they just call a truce and then...

No, they never call a truce.

They just wait for someone to get exhausted and fall in the water.

Really?

I bet it would get exhausting.

Oh, now you're kidding?

That's like jump

rope.

Yeah, that's gotta be... I mean, it's like a mini sprint on and off.

Right.

I mean, you have to have cardio.

How do you train for something like this if you're not in the water?

So, cross training, strength training in the gym, lifting.

Other people will train, cardio, bike, run, swim.

But again, time on log is very important.

Wow, this is cool.

And you got it coming up, the 17th annual Three Rivers Rolio, heading to an exciting new venture thrilled to be partnered with the Village of Howard.

for an action-packed weekend Friday, July 11th, amateur starting at four o'clock.

So can people just come there and say, hey, I want to give this a shot?

They cannot.

They have to be registered in advance.

OK.

And is there a do like to pre-register?

Is there more to it than that?

I mean, do you think I take a little bit of a physical or something?

No, they don't.

the amateurs, members of the United States Law

Girl... Turn your head and

cough!

We don't have to say that!

I mean, come on,

what if the guy can't even get on

a log,

you know?

Well, they have to be members of the United States Law Girl & Association, so... Oh, okay.

Oh, that's

pretty good.

Okay.

And I mean, you have to know where to register to.

Okay.

All right.

So,

we're dumb.

Yeah, we are.

She's like, I knew that a long piece.

We're well into

this.

Okay, so then professionals start at 10 o'clock on Saturday morning.

Yeah, absolutely.

And if coming down, there's food trucks, coffee vendors, so like feel free to grab a coffee.

And if you want to come for the lunch hour, there's beer and food on site.

And people can just sit in the luncheers and watch.

Yeah, free.

Yeah, free to the public.

That's awesome.

It's

gonna be fun.

Yeah, how did you get

into this?

How did you get started?

So I started the local YMCA

on Alaska

in yeah the unalaskan area the lacrosse Y And my brother saw it wanted to try and I was a 20 months younger So then after he started I wanted to do it at the age of six, but

at

age of really started

this Wow, so then you you were talking me for the show or before the segment you played other sports How did this help you in other sports?

Longer lane gives you a great sense of balance and really quick feet like so any sport that you need quickness.

I mean you're on a small diameter log keeping your balance So all cardiovascular strength quickness are all gained from longer lane.

You know, it's funny.

We we interviewed a kid that is top score in football 400 some yards of the last game five touchdowns and each day and we asked him what his biggest strength was and he said balance

Yeah.

He just, I don't know if he did log one.

I wish we would have them back on our show, but he just said, you know, I, I, I just have been gifted with it or not gifted.

He works really hard at it, but he goes, it's balance.

And yeah, that's, that's a, that's a key thing to have in any sport,

but it's an important skill,

especially this one.

Okay.

Tell me again, though, you, you said, and I didn't realize this because I'm a member of the crack center and the white don't, what

don't.

He has, I'm not going to take that away from him.

He's there.

But the question is, how many times have you gone?

Really, Todd?

Well, I

mean, Todd's on

my,

OK.

If I'd known there was a lot growing, I would have gotten

a lot more.

He would have gone twice.

Right.

Excuse them for they know not what they speak,

but they

teach this

He's gonna be going every day now.

I'm

sure perfect.

That's great.

It's easy as easy as falling off long and then going for a little

swim Okay,

I don't

I don't mean to

sound creepy.

Okay.

Let's the latter part.

You want to dress that at all?

I don't mean it's not creepy.

I do you want to see my calves?

No serious.

They're unbelievable.

Let's go back to the first part

You want to touch it?

Right on your calf.

Yeah.

Don't touch it.

Don't touch it.

Don't touch it.

Don't touch it.

Look, we got three pending lawsuits.

Just stay, stay away.

I think, I think because of my calves, I'd be really good at this.

How's your balance in your core?

Phenomenal.

Your core's phenomenal?

My what?

See, look at her.

Look at her.

Look at her.

Just like that lady that looked at you.

That's the core.

When you said I'm 210, I'm like, are you wheeling?

How deep is water?

Do you have to swim or is it like a...

three feet of water, what are you guys log rolling?

It all depends, because we're going to start.

I mean, it's never over your head, is it?

Absolutely.

It is.

Oh, I'm out.

I'm out.

You're not a swim.

Wow.

So is.

We need a minimum depth for safety so people can fall and splash in the water, but any depth is, I mean, deep is good.

You're not going to hit the bottom, land and twist an ankle.

Let me ask you, do you have to learn how to swim before you log roll?

I mean, you can wear a lifejack if you want.

My daughter does

I would wear a life jacket

You would Okay, well this is exciting.

This is great.

What age do you start at you?

What are your brackets?

Is it it's gotta be eight?

So

the professionals any age you can turn professional Declare and you can go professional.

We have people as young as 16 in the pros then the amateur side there are age divisions So there's seven and under and then

And that's co-ed and then 10 8 to 10 boys 8 to 10 girls 11 to 13 boys and girls and then

14 to 17 boys and girls and then there's an adult sport for anyone who wants to get involved as an adult

at the competition Is it just one going on at a time?

Or is there like a bunch from going on

or so the pros will start on two docks So yeah, we're

gonna we're gonna keep you keep you around for another few minutes.

Yeah, I

said a quick break.

This is exciting stuff Katie Burke Three Rivers rollio log rolling event in Howard coming up this weekend.

Is this gonna be televised?

You know

this one is not

okay

But I've seen it televised.

It has been for five years.

I mean,

it's big time.

That's

cool.

All

right, we'll

be back right

after this.

Stay up to date on the latest news and information for your local community and Wisconsin by signing up for our free email newsletter.

Visit civicmedia.us slash email to get started.

Yeah, growth.

Katie Burke from the Three Rivers Rolio log rolling event in Howard coming up this weekend on the on deck circle.

Joe vertigris, Scott Hansen, legendary, legendary area racer, and Mark Houston chiming in.

I got a great name for your new next segment.

It'll be called Name John's New Injury.

Name

John's New Injury.

That would be, we really can't go that long in a segment because we have to.

The brakes put in, so we can talk to the producer about that.

Hey, this is exciting stuff, Kay.

I would love to come out

and

watch you guys do this.

That's right.

I said, Kay, this is different.

And I think people want to get outside.

And this is all obviously outside.

This is an indoor, this is outside.

And, you know, the weather's going to be great this weekend.

And it's something different.

I think in the food trucks, it's just going to be a fun thing to do for, I don't know, a couple hours.

Yeah, absolutely.

I think we're going to

head out there.

We've got something else going on, but I don't

want to get out there.

I hope you can make it.

Yeah, this is going to be fun.

Now when you were okay, we got a thing here.

Do you have to be good to declare pro or it can just be a pro and suck?

You can't be a pro and suck you'll go out twice in a row in the tournament.

How competitive?

I mean this is this far away from each other basically looking at each other's feet or whatever I mean this has to get kind of personal almost doesn't

it?

It does and when you have a circuit I mean we're together

all summer, weekend after weekend, competing against each other.

It's a close-up family, but I would say it's also like siblings, where you're gonna butt in the second you get on that log, it's go time.

Isn't

the trick, I don't know, I've never done it, but the trick to like the start, to like really just jackrabbit start and throw them off?

So the second the whistle blows, you're gonna pull off the dock.

So you gotta get a safe distance away from the dock.

You step on a log, pull off, and now you're out in open water, as a picture you can see.

But as soon as the judge is going to call time in, so you have to be both balancing and get a steady start, and the judge blows a whistle.

Now, it is legal if you're both timed in, the split second that goes off to kick the log.

Rarely is this successful, but every once in a while it is.

There's a couple people who pull it off really well.

Just to knock their balance off like?

Yeah.

Instead of just, you know, gradually

getting

faster and faster, just, wow.

Or go the other way, like say, I'll go forward, you go backwards, and then just trick them.

Yeah, you can that's called give and go you're gonna fake them like you're gonna come go one way And then you go back the other way give and go

I like it a lot in Howard this coming weekend and Free admission, which is great.

That's cool.

That's

so

cool

food trucks a little live if you stick music up

I'm assuming they should bring your own lawn chairs

there.

We'll have some bleachers Oh,

you're bleeding out

there.

Okay, but you're welcome to bring a lawn chair if you want to be a little more fun

comfortable and what

would be considered like the hotbed the Hayward area for these kind of things when you go to where the most attendance

the most attendance is probably Hayward but the Midwest is a big log rolling bet I mean people from Hayward will go up to Squamish and British Columbia and compete and there will be some international competitors it's

when you find a place to go just this ever called because of white caps or something or do you and tell me about like

The environment, how you say this is where we're gonna go, how do you pick a spot?

Like, the quarry's awesome because that's super calm there.

Yeah.

Like, would you do it on the Fox River here?

In

front of

the city deck?

I think that would be a little too hard with the wake for competition.

Me

too.

Well, last night I tried to train on the Fox River where I am and it got a little wavy for a bit.

So typically you try to find a clone body of water, a quarry, a lake, a lagoon in Gladstone.

We're in the heart, like wrap around the harbor in this little lagoon area off of Lake Michigan.

But Lake Michigan or the middle of the Fox River where you have large amounts of old traffic is not ideal.

Lakes are, again, wraparounds from larger bodies of water.

are great.

Cool thing for a small community.

Do you know because everybody's looking to get people to come and food trucks and have events and you know you can make a little bit money on beverages.

I think of a place even like Elkhart Lake.

That's a very quiet body of water on Sundays, right?

I think this is going to be fun to watch.

I'm looking forward to coming.

I hope so.

There's a lot of action.

Like I said, we're in a bracket double elimination.

We have multiple world champions coming in to compete this weekend.

We have all five of the top men.

Rollers ranked rollers in the country coming in four-time world champion Shauna Verstigans coming in Wow and up-and-coming rookie who's podiumed every tournament this season, but yet to actually win one.

I need Anderson

Okay, I gotta say one thing.

Okay,

everyone ever that I'm gonna bet on this.

I'm gonna bet on something When you talk about international world champions, I'm gonna make up a wager that the top log rollers are from Sweden I would I would say no no

The U.S.

Really?

Oh, I would have

thought like these big Danes type of guys like Sven Orgensen.

Maybe a

Lumberjack.

I would say some little guy with a

really

unbelievable sense of balance.

Like I would have thought Barbara Mayer.

No.

This takes

away some of the mystique.

I wanted to see the big Sven guys.

No?

No, I know

maybe a little more in the shopping site in

here

Do they still have all those competitions?

Absolutely.

Oh,

those are something else, aren't they?

They are.

You ever see that with the chopping things?

Those guys go through those logs like nothing.

They do, but I'll stick to the water in the summer.

It's a lot more refreshing.

Tell me

about the lessons that people can take on this.

Do you teach the lessons?

I have taught lessons at both the Kroc and the YMCA, currently teaching a little bit on and off at the YMCA.

Here

in Green Bay?

Here in Green Bay, yeah.

Awesome.

I try to teach instructors more so that we have a greater reach as opposed to me showing up for all the classes.

But at the Y, you can look on their schedules and see when you can take lessons.

The Y should be offering them again in the fall.

I think they took a little break this summer.

But you sign up for a lesson and you'll go to the Y, go into the pool area.

They'll hold the log.

So to start, they'll hold the log.

We'll talk you through how.

Get three core things of learning quick feet balance Eyes on the other end so never stop moving your feet keep your arms out like you're on a balance beam But in front and behind and then just

some gymnastic people are like really really good at this.

I'm really liking the spoken

music Like slipping off of my face hitting the log

That is so unlikely because gravity is gonna take you for a swim and you have to be good with that core to stay over the log

on my car.

Why do you keep

bringing up my car, Katie?

Because

it is

like war part of life.

Yeah,

enough from you, Katie.

Katie

Berger.

He's very smart.

Rollio Library event in Howard this weekend, July 12th.

Thanks so much.

This is

great.

It's gonna be fun.

Thanks

for

having me.

Love to watch you.

Back in for us.

From local stories to local voices, we're shining a spotlight on what matters right here in Northeast Wisconsin.

It's more than just talk.

It's about connecting with the community.

This is Mino and the Mayor.

Now here's John Mino and Jim Schmidt.

Hey, welcome!

That was so much fun having Katie Burke here, the three rivers, rolly old log rolling event in Howard.

Coming up this weekend.

Todd, great job lighting that up.

Joe Vertigan here actually says he's going to try to compete.

There

he said

every other athletic event there is

when pigs fly.

Yeah,

exactly Jovert again and Scott Hanson Scott Hanson I just say that name and I just think about the days back at WIR coming down there on those Thursday nights or whatever great times man the red white and blue series and all the different things and man you were a competitor five time WIR champion people if you're not from this or maybe people from this look with this way people from this area

who haven't seen racing in other areas, might not understand the competitiveness and the quality of the drivers in the cars that take to the track at WIR.

Oh, I'm telling you, there was so many champions and stuff, Quickie and Watson and Trickles and lots of good guys came through that racetrack.

And that's the thing, you know, everything was the self, the self, the self.

And sometimes these guys from the South would come up and they'd be like, holy crap, these Northern boys know how to ride.

Well, Mark Martin, who did the forward for the WIR book, he says WIR is genuinely one of his favorite tracks he's ever seen.

And with Scott, he was one of the first Green Bay champion from there.

There have been two others, Mark Schrader in 96 and Chad Butts last year, who's actually from Howard, but Scott won five in a row.

And sometimes that didn't sit real well with the Dutch mafia.

He didn't have that Fox Valley zip code.

Scott, you know what

I'm talking about, right?

that Michigan people didn't enjoy.

Well, the thing is, people,

it was one of

those things though too, where it was like, even like, what's his name?

Kenseth.

Oh

man,

yeah.

Has told me that he had some animosity when he started winning down there as well.

Yeah.

It was a tough.

Duffer extract to win at because of the people that came in there.

I mean, everybody back then had the same equipment, good equipment.

So you just had to hustle your way through whatever it

took.

Scott, we're talking about racing.

It was a big deal when I was in high school.

I mean, everybody went and- Here's the

regular

at 141.

Right.

Man talked to rivers.

I think it maybe took a little bit of a lull or maybe there's just a lot more to do today than there was.

30, 40 years ago.

Joe and I were just talking.

We don't understand why it's dropping off.

There's a lot of streaming and stuff going on.

A lot of people sitting home watching it in the garage nowadays.

Maybe a lot of us are just getting older and the car guys are going away.

But it's exciting.

What I'm saying is what would it take to get people back to that?

Because I think it is more competitive.

There's more outdoor concerts.

There's log rolling things.

There's just a lot to do on a Saturday night, Wednesday night.

in this community.

I think there's more than there was years ago, but I mean, does it take somebody like you, a five-time champion, was it more the race or was it more you that they came out to see?

I'd like to think it was me.

I think it was you, but also your rivals.

There were like hardcore rivalries back then.

You know, what we did back when we raced is we not only raced hard,

We sat with the fans for hours and hours and hours and invested time with them.

You know, that was that was as much as the race ever was.

People came out of the grandstands.

We sat there.

I mean, many times till the sun came up.

And he had a

great sponsor and Budweiser too.

A really good one.

That's a great story in itself, Scott.

How he got the Budweiser sponsorship.

That's a story.

Well, they called me, you know, they wanted they wanted to go with Terry Baldry.

It's

another legendary name.

Oh, I'm telling you.

They went right down the line.

They took the guy who won the championship, was Baldry, who was my first year down there.

I run second.

Baldry family, I don't know if they even drank.

They got a Pepsi deal.

And they said, we're going to go with the Pepsi.

And I don't think they had a clue what they passed up on.

Well, Jimmy Dean and the Budweiser guns.

Dean, boys.

They invested a lot in me and we had such a good time.

Well, you paid

off for them

because I'll tell you what,

that Budweiser Kerr was on TV and in the papers an

awful lot.

Yeah.

And they did pretty well too, so.

Yeah.

Those are great guys.

Yeah, that

was.

I go back to Rustin,

the major.

Yeah.

But you know, one of the things I'll do back in your days, that was such an event, that was such a local event was to come out to the track.

Right.

I swear almost everywhere.

Well, Joe, when you were my intern, we did a live shot

every week for

there didn't yeah it was it was a big deal and like I said there was no internet back then nobody had cell phones you had to be there there was no online streaming of races and back this Budweiser thing the half of that was actually Anheuser-Busch right Scott

yep right from the and I

tell you my college dormant I moved in the fall of 87 it was Bud like this but Mackenzie that I mean they were very generous I with oh my gosh it was a it was a great sponsorship put it that way

I had to be

the DD of Spuds McKinsey won

Halloween or something.

I remember him beating in your pit one time,

the actual

dog.

What

was it like when you went to NASCAR the bigger time, I guess you want to call it, but what was that like with those people?

Different.

It's politically correct I was not.

My mouth got me in too much trouble and I enjoyed, like I just told you, I enjoyed when you were done racing, you had fun with the people and this and that.

And you had to watch so much of your P's and Q's.

And I just didn't, I'm sorry to say, but I didn't fit in.

A little more

corporate.

A lot more corporate.

And I guess if I'd have shut up, I'd have been a little higher up the ladder.

But

I think every kid though likes racing, right?

I mean, I don't

know.

I

would like to think that.

So what would your advice be to get into it?

Because I think that's.

I don't know,

I think

it's very cool.

Find a rich grandpa is the only way to do it.

Is that a deterrent right now?

If you don't have money, Joe and I were just talking, you go through the truck and the Xfinity series, there aren't a half a dozen guys getting actual paid.

They bring the money into that deal and they've got to siphon their money out of the sponsorship they bring in is how they're making their money to do this.

Wow.

Yeah, it's gotten so...

money-oriented.

So before Scott went to NASCAR he had the luxury in the late 80s early 90s

He made a living racing short track

cars,

like what race, through the ASA series, Art Go, which he was rookie of the year.

He was a five time winner at the Milwaukee mile as well.

Which is pretty amazing.

It is.

I mean, but guys could make a living running short tracks before he hitched up with Kenny Schrader and did the NASCAR thing.

You can't make a living running short tracks anymore.

It's the costs have gotten so high and the pay has not matched it.

It's just not feasible anymore.

I thought I was doing good.

in Wisconsin, racing for Jerry Gunnerman and Donnie Fanetti and the Baker guys.

Until I went to work for Kenny Schrader, who ran NASCAR for 25 years.

That's when I started making money.

I had no clue that those guys were getting what they were getting.

And Kenny put me on a whole different level and that's what made me

And as far as making it, that's where I'm

at.

You

say he was paid 150 cases of beer one time?

Oh, it's more than that, wasn't it?

How much beer did you get from them?

That was part of the sponsorship deal, wasn't it?

We got a pallet a week.

And went through it.

Oh, yeah.

Wow.

Oh, yeah.

But the competitiveness, is it still there in these tracks?

Because the thing is, and I know there was the different factions down there, like I remember when I first came to Green Bay, I think it was J.J.

Smiths was one of the big guys.

Yeah, hero.

J.J.

was my hero.

When I started going, I started out on dirt track.

And I watched J.J.

and Jerry Smith and Medina and Roger Paul, Roger Regis.

Those guys, those were racers.

They sat in there and they just bowled their way around there.

You know, today it's, you know, luxury riding around.

Well, that's

what I'm saying.

But they're just, you know, race the doors off with each other.

And then, but then they'd sit around the pits and talk if somebody needed a

bar,

Crescent wrench or a socket or something, they would give it to them.

But on the track, there was no, you

know, it was wide open competitive.

Like you said, if you slipped and somebody made a mistake, got into each other, somebody got wrecked, you got out and said, okay.

Don't do that or watch how you do this.

And they jumped right in and helped you fix

what you were doing.

I gotta hear one dick trickle story.

Did he really have a cigarette lighter in his car?

Oh, he had a cigarette lighter.

He had packs of cigarettes packed in this way.

He was a one of a kind that you'll just, you'll never see again.

ever in any racing era.

Telling the story about when you decided it was around 83, 83 or 82, Scott ditched the dirt and went pavement full time and Dick Trickle kind of helped you out.

Telling

that story.

I called him up one day and I said, Hey, can I, what are the chances you'd let me come over and talk me through some of the setups of some that?

And he's like, here's my address.

See you there on Tuesday.

We took a, I got a 12 pack of paps drove over there and

He had a setup book that was dang near a foot thick on his bench.

And we started drinking.

I said, okay, I'd like to know about this race track.

He says, there's the book.

Send your kid over there, paper and pencil and write down anything you want to know out of that book.

And that escalated my career so fast overnight.

I mean, here it is, the shocks, the springs, the tires, everything.

It takes years to learn that.

Pretty.

confident guy, but pretty generous, right?

To just share that with you.

He must have saw something in you as well.

Well, that and he was, he would rather keep you straight on the racetrack than you out there flipping flopping and wrecking stuff like that.

Right, right, right.

And you know, it took me a long time.

This is a quick story with trickle.

He was the man.

So he came in, he never hot lap.

He was quick time.

So finally one day we had it right.

We'll go there.

I got quick time.

He was second.

I wanted to dash, he was second.

I wanted a 25 lap feature, he was second.

We went to the bar afterwards, he came up to me, he says, man, I gotta give you so much more credit than, he says, you've come a long way.

He said, but not only that, you can really drive.

And I'm like, well, thanks.

He says, I have not seen anybody drive a car that out of control.

And he worked on me.

I went home, I changed everything in that car, stayed up till four in the morning.

Come back to the race the next day, the big race.

30 laps, I think he was lapping me because he talked me right.

He was so smart.

He talked me right out of everything I had done, but he didn't just lap me.

He pulled up alongside me.

I think we ran side by side for two or three laps until I looked over and he gave me the old, see you later.

Unbelievable.

It was crazy, but he was good.

He was good at everything he did.

I guess.

Well, you said one of the biggest changes was the cost.

Why the costs are so high now versus 30 years ago?

Is it the equipment?

It's

the equipment, and none of us understand why.

We built a car for... Right.

$30,000.

Now, I just told Joe, a new Ferry car is $125,000.

A

Ferry car is like the super late model that Chad Butts races on Thursday nights, for example.

Okay.

That's not cheap to race for weekly.

I mean, that's very, very cost.

And I don't know what the pay is to win now it is, but it did.

Probably a thousand.

All right, so then keep pace with

that.

Okay,

I got it.

Wow.

Yeah, it was 400 to win.

When I would win, they might get a thousand now.

And

get the car went from 30 to 120.

Yeah.

And that, I get it.

And they're the same basic part.

Right.

Yeah.

A hub

is a hub.

Yeah.

Was there anything different?

And obviously everybody's got different skills, different skill levels of whatever before we go to a break here.