Cellcom Celebrations and Mortgage Revelations (Hour 2)

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Coming to Northeast Wisconsin live from the Civic Media Studios, this is Mino and the Mayor.

And here are your hosts, John Minow and Jim Schmidt.

Hey,

thank you very much.

Welcome back.

I'm the mayor here now.

Beautiful, beautiful Monday morning, 97.9 FM WGBW, 98.3, 96.5 FM WIS.

And of course, the Civic Media app joining us right now.

Kimberly Asoyer.

Hello, Kimberly.

Hello, gentlemen.

It's always good to see

you.

It's

always good to see you.

Congratulations on your...

Motherhood.

Oh my thank you.

Thank you.

Yes.

Number four.

It's kind of wild.

Yeah.

My youngest is seven.

So I'm kind of doing this all over again.

It feels like, but the kids are going to be great helpers.

I feel like it'll be different this time around where it won't be like chasing all the toddlers.

They'll be able to like take a shower and they can keep the kid alive for a little while,

right?

He'll be amazed how helpful they'll be.

I think so.

Yeah.

My oldest is 12.

She just took the babysitting course.

So she's very excited.

They love babies.

They'll be great.

They are.

And I just

remember hiring babysitters and you

could always

tell who took the

course because I remember the first time we did that and this girl comes over and you know show her in the house and everything.

Do you have any questions?

Is she allergic to anything?

That's a good question.

She told me she learned how to administer an EpiPen and do all the things.

It is amazing.

They do that at the safety center here in Green Bay.

So God bless those people.

They do a really nice job.

That

is so worth it.

And you have parents who try to teach your daughters who are going to be babysitters and everything, but some of those questions are like, wow.

Yeah.

And they learn the business skills side of it too, which is really good.

Like how do you negotiate a rate and ask those questions.

So it's really good.

I think that's awesome.

Oh, that's cool.

So I'm busy.

Do you

have built-in babysitters now?

Don't you?

I do.

Yeah, well, we have such a great neighborhood, you know, and all the, you know, like sports parents and all the people you get to hang out with as you raise kids.

Like the village is strong and we are very grateful.

Congrats to you.

Congrats.

That is great.

Thank you.

So, cell com,

which is

your, what's your title over there?

I'm senior manager of external relations.

So kind of a fancy way of, you know, PR, communications.

I get to do fun things like this with you guys.

Nice.

I've been there for just over a year now, so.

And how many employees do cell com?

They

must be close to a thousand or 600.

Just

for the record, I was their 19th employee.

You said that that's so cool.

You know that

perfect.

Well, yeah, 19, that's not too many.

Well, I say that a breakthrough when I used to work for Craig Dickman.

I was employee number eight.

When you're under 25, they tell you that when you

step in.

We expect a lot out of you

because

it.

Your job is everybody's job.

When you're under 20, then they start to maybe not silo it, but you start to segment it a little bit.

Anyway, so that's great.

And one of the things you do, we call them car care clinics.

You don't call them anymore.

What do you got going

on right now?

They started as that, yes.

And Bonnie was the one who ran those for many years, incredible lady.

And so I'm trying to fill her shoes a little bit and do some other things as well.

And so obviously we went through a pretty tough month this last month with the outage and with an ongoing FBI investigation.

there's only so much you can share.

Believe me, we would love to share all the way more things than we can.

And so it's really just our opportunity to say thank you to our customers for sticking with us.

It was obviously a rough road, not just for us, but for them.

We completely understand that and also for our community.

we're doing also by not sharing too much is because these cyber incidents happen all across the country every single day, which is unfortunate, but it's the world we live in.

And the more we say, the more susceptible people in and outside of our industry are too, because that's our goal, right?

Is to like get to us and then get to other people that are probably even bigger.

In other industries.

Remember

that happened, that happened in

this community.

That happens all the time.

I don't

know to mention the companies,

but

that's happened in food, it's happened in healthcare.

It's not with this one, it's just because

everybody.

And you use that every day.

Exactly.

It makes you really think about how often you use your technology.

And how I don't want

to use the word how easily, but how quickly

you

can just be no

communication.

Yep.

Yep.

Absolutely.

So yeah.

That's why some of

us are a little cash conscious.

Right.

Do I worry about that?

But for sure.

I don't know.

You rebounded.

Yep, we're back now.

We're back and ready to get back to business as usual.

And again, just say thank you at these celebrations.

So we have 15 left.

There were 17 total.

And they're all across the region.

So we're in Ribb Mountain and Marshfield.

So Ribb Mountain tomorrow on my birthday.

Oh, hey, happy birthday.

Thank you.

And then July 2nd.

Oh, I got a bell.

Yeah.

Thank you.

That's

very special,

especially

from him.

Also, I think that means Johnny's got to sing happy birthday later on.

Absolutely.

OK.

Much later, like

next

month.

Oh, I

can

do it.

OK,

sure.

Best birthday gift

ever.

Ever.

Yeah, but then we're at Marshfield on July 2nd.

I'll be at that one.

And we've been doing some radio remotes, and it's a lot of... Okay, I gotta talk

about something real quick here.

Go ahead.

Because Jim and I are at least favorite thing in the world, okay?

The one thing that we will absolutely turn down no matter what is a dunk tank.

Oh, right.

We do

not have that.

You were telling me about when you were in Wisconsin.

You had to go

to

these little county fairs.

I can't believe you did that.

Tell us.

Yeah, I did a lot of dunk tanks.

Because

you're so, you know, your hair out.

We were mean we look

terrible when we showed up right and I

just John told me that cuz I that's something we stopped doing I just let's

get off the cell company

just to say, tell me

about the

dump.

Well, and they just had Mr. Wisconsin.

We just crowned Willow our brand of Wisconsin.

She's from Racine.

Very cool.

Yes.

So I did a lot of things.

I think when you become Mr. Wisconsin, and that's why honestly, like I, I am so grateful for that experience because I wouldn't be able to do all the things I do today without that experience.

So yay for scholarship money, paid for my MBA,

all

the good things, but it also gave me the opportunity to learn that sometimes you show up to places and you just got to kind of figure things out.

And you don't know who you're going to meet, what you're going

I mean, I was prepped a lot of times before I went, but you just don't know.

And you show up and they're like, Hey, do you mind doing this?

Do you mind doing this?

And I was a singer.

So I sang a lot too.

And

you

speak to all different sorts of audiences.

So you kind of have to roll with the punches on that too.

But yeah, dunk tanks, parades, all the things.

And yep, there were definitely times.

I mean, I definitely wore a T-shirt over my swimsuit just to make sure there were no wardrobe malfunctions as they call it nowadays.

But didn't you say you'd

see certain guys at the same places?

Oh God, yeah.

Oh yeah.

I mean, you have to worry about those kinds of things.

Right.

tighter on security nowadays, I would say, but they always made sure I had somebody with me.

So that was good.

I mean, people don't see that side of being Miss Wisconsin.

You'd get a lot of letters and things.

And after a while, I just asked my business manager to just not share those anymore.

I was like, you know, unless it's dangerous, like, I just don't want it.

Right.

Wow.

And that's good because they

feel good.

They wrote it.

Right.

You don't have to read it unless it's a threat.

Right.

So if somebody else

read it, I'm

just

surprised.

The reason that surprises me, doesn't surprise me that you would do that.

Surprised me because you're kind of, you're the kind of, you are, you're a beauty queen in that.

You would let your hair and makeup get wet.

Yeah, whatever, you know.

I play sports my whole life.

I think that's great, you did that.

I was gonna say, they don't know that

you're actually a total complete.

Yes, I'm a country gal.

That's right.

You know, so I was muddin' and, you know, pickin' rocks and doin' all sorts of things up there.

Dude, did you

not catch her in Fastpitch Softball?

Yeah, I played outfield at Norbert's, which was really cool.

Like, I had never played that until I got there.

And they were like, well, the only position we have open is left field.

So if you want to play, that's what you're gonna do.

And I was like, all right, well, I'll give it a shot.

And I loved it.

It was so much

fun.

Kimberly, did you have to do that or did you say I'll do it?

Well, it was a paid appearance.

So yes, it was expected to do that.

I mean, I'm sure if I was uncomfortable with something, we would have worked for it.

I mean, that's not

quite a status thing to have Miss Wisconsin come

to your

event.

I'm really

surprised

she

did that.

I was like, wow.

So back

to the

cellcom and you're the, I forgot we said the external

VP or whatever.

I was the ambassador in a lot of ways too, for sure.

All right.

So

the 17 markets that year, is that all Wisconsin or are you guys in Iowa?

Yep, nope, just Wisconsin.

So we go all the way, you know, west to the Red Mountain area like this week and then we'll go south to Manitowoc and up to Door County.

And the people

are invited through...

Venues like this, but you also send postcards, right?

Yeah.

Yes.

Yeah, and the deals that we have going on It's basically like black Friday in June So like if there's a time you want to stock up on something like for the hunters right now We've got crazy deals like the more you buy the more you save so we had somebody come in and get five trail cams for the price of two Which I know

my

husband big hunter is thinking about Or if you've been thinking about getting that phone for that kid that you're like right on the fence so we can get him the phone or the watch or something Okay,

I need to okay

This might be out of your technical.

All right.

Well, that's okay.

I'll let you know.

What I would love to have.

I got a buddy.

He can look at his, his, uh, his food plot.

Yes.

Where he has the deer cam.

You have that.

That is the coolest thing.

Yeah, the Spartan Trailcams.

Is that

what it's called?

Yep.

So how does that hook up?

And we have our low cams that are more like for your house, which I just bought a house actually in August.

So we're gonna get some of those too.

Okay.

Um, but yes, absolutely.

Yeah, it's an app and then it runs right through your phone.

My husband has something very similar right now.

So I get to see all the deer all the time.

All the time just pops right up as a notification anytime movement comes.

So I've seen that one has got that

is our buddy at over at camera corner.

He showed me that all the time Rick.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

And then you don't have to go and like change the SD card out.

It just comes right here.

Wow.

And he

loves showing

that surprises

me because you wouldn't think the guy that has a license plate says 12 point buck.

Right.

Right.

Right.

His deer.

We

love inside.

Well, I was like hunting a zoo.

Hey, would you?

Do you have the home security systems?

I'm going to in

my new house.

Oh, we do.

Yeah, for sure.

Yeah.

I didn't know that.

Yep.

I didn't either.

Yeah.

That is much done our less.

People don't think we have, but yes.

Tell me about these.

I know.

What are they called again?

Not Parker Clinics, these.

Oh, Celebrations.

And we're calling them cell ubrations.

Cell ubrations.

We're rebranding a little bit.

Because again, it's a big thank you to all the customers that stuck with us.

And hopefully some new ones will come too.

So when

we go to that.

These are available.

We can take a look at your home security systems.

Yeah, everything.

It's literally like you're walking into a retail store underneath an outdoor tent.

And then we have our care team and our tech team for like any technical question that you have.

You can get all these great deals.

And actually, if you sign up for home internet, which we also have, you can get six months for free.

So that's a pretty good deal.

So

do you have hot dogs still?

We have.

Actually, we do.

different in each location, but a lot of times it's like subs, chips, we have root beer floats, always love that.

Some, depending on where you are, like Appleton North, for instance, our store is right next to Tom's Drive-In, so they're going to do like burgers and hot dogs and stuff.

So, I mean, it just depends on where you are, but check out our website.

Remember how disappointed I was when we went to that event and they had vegetarian.

I'm looking for the salami.

It's all vegetarian.

And we do giveaways too, so if you want to come win something, and actually if you pre-register or you get a chance to win a cool Packers package.

For the record, John wasn't.

that upset because we stopped at Burger King on the way

home.

I'm sure he figured it

out.

He always figures it out.

So tell me again, so I could come there and buy the camera.

And then all you need to do is get in.

I don't know exactly how apps work,

but then somebody would install.

They are

so

customer friendly.

They'll help you with

it.

Yeah, for sure.

And it could be.

I mean, I could have that in the U.P.

and I could watch it here.

You bet.

Okay.

How about just ballpark wise?

I actually do.

That's a good question.

I don't want to say.

Yeah, yeah,

yeah.

All right.

I would be, I'm serious about this.

That's

good.

That's a cool thing.

You let me know when you're going in.

I'll give them a heads up you're coming.

You can actually make an appointment online too.

So we have a new appointment system so that you don't have to wait when you go in.

Like you could be like, I have an appointment and then you get first.

And then I wanted to retail folks cause they're amazing.

And then I want it on my house.

Do you come over and assess my house?

Like

in terms of question, I don't know if they do that part of it.

But I just know there's

another company and they look at, well, you really need one here cause

of your

basement.

You need this in your, they tell you how many.

cameras

you

obviously need the front door, but they may be two others.

I just don't I wouldn't know where to put the camera.

Right.

Our team is pretty awesome.

If you told them a little bit more about your home, they'd probably let you know about how many you would want to have.

Because

I think, I don't know, but I live kind of close to.

a homeless shelter that shuts down for

six

months.

And it's just

nice to have issues

in the garage.

So

yeah, everybody should have really have one nowadays.

I feel like, you know,

gotta protect those linens.

Can't

really introduce yourself

again.

Tell me who you are and what you do.

I gosh, what do I do?

Senior manager of external relations at Selcom and site is our parent company, but people are really more affiliated or, you know, know our brand well of Selcom.

So excited to share about the celebrations today, of course.

But we also have things going on and we're you know still growing as a business and it's been really cool to be a part of something that's been around for 115 years made start in Pulaski, Wisconsin with the Riordan family and it's still part of the Riordan family now and you know, it's a very Wisconsin business, right?

So

first job pardon me.

That wasn't your first job.

Was it?

Oh, that's right

But you're I think that's interesting how they talk about learning

a changing industry.

These guys were landline people forever.

Plastic, telephone.

The year I was born was when Cellcom was created in 1987.

You're

making me feel really old.

And

then they

were born and it went

here.

1987.

88.

My kids literally say you were born in the 1900s.

They'll ask me that all

the time.

Wow.

Hey, does your sister still have that cool place?

Yes.

Yeah, the farm.

Wedding reception thing.

I just got married there in September.

They

took their barn.

And a working bar where the cows are still walking in and out of it.

Yeah.

And turn it into such a cool place.

You bet.

Oh man.

That's awesome.

We're the Kimberly Sawyer, Inside, back

after this.

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started.

Just a few things.

Three other kiddos are in travel forts.

And

17 of your events.

Yeah, we're busy.

What are you here?

Like, when are you in Oshkosh, Green Bay,

Appleton?

Yeah, I have it all up on my phone, actually.

So, celebrations.

Yeah, sellcom.com slash celebrate.

And it has all of them.

And like I said, if you pre-register, you can win a really cool VIP Packers.

Package and then every day we have giveaways, but yeah, we're out in Shawno on the 8th and 9th of July Then we're in Weston East to peer the week after that And then in the lots in Green Bay Luxembourg Pulaski, of course, which is where we were born Manitouac Appleton and then all the way up Sturgeon Bay and then we finish up in Annago on August 6th

Sad news out of Annago on that horse trainer died.

He was friends with my father-in-law.

Oh, really?

Yeah

Lucas.

Yeah that guy

Anyway, that's legendary.

He was legendary.

Legendary, but yeah.

Yeah.

So,

Kimberly, let me ask you one quick thing about about the technology right now in phones.

Yeah.

I mean, it's it's is this is it?

I mean, it's still mine.

But

I mean, I can't.

I can't do that.

But it's

still my like my plan.

You're like it's still improving.

My

granddaughters who's like seven will grab my phone and

do

like.

How did you, what do you,

I mean?

They're just swiping like nobody's business as well, isn't it?

You

know what I mean?

I mean, God bless us old type guys who we try hard.

We do.

But you talk about a whole line of technology that these kids, you know, they're born with.

What a, what a generation of future.

It's wild, isn't it?

And as a parent, it's hard, right?

You want to try to protect them also as much as you can and have them be educated about those things too.

And yeah, it's not easy

road.

Kids to look people in the eye and communicate too.

for sure.

That is like the biggest thing.

Three kids

under seven.

Yes, and I worked in talent acquisition for a long time before this or recruiting.

And you can tell, you know, when you're recruiting interns, like the kids who've had parents who have taught them those things, right?

So yeah, we work on, we work on those things too.

And you just have to set boundaries with it.

You know, it's, it depends on each kid.

Each kid is, has different responsibility levels, maturity levels.

And I think there's certain things you just have to monitor.

And like my little guy, he's seven, but there's times where, man, I'd love to have one of those kids watches on him where I can

you'll see where he's going.

Like if we're at a baseball tournament and he's like around the corner doing something, it'd be nice to have.

I mean, I've seen him still watch him like a hawk, but it's like, there's really great things about it too, for sure.

You don't

have to worry about your one granddaughter.

She's, she's, she just, she's, she needs, she belongs in theater.

Are you having fun in grandpa land?

Oh yeah.

Yeah, okay.

You forget that it's like, okay, so the last time they were here, I can tell this story.

My youngest one who's a little bit out of control.

Okay, good.

There's always one.

She's got energy.

She's got

energy.

She'll rule the world someday.

Get a call from

my daughter, ask her if I could meet here at 1035 at night at the emergency room, which is always a nice call for me.

Oh, shoot.

She had stuffed a marble or something up her nose.

You know, one of those kind of things.

Oh, no.

Sir, I thought doctor could not get it out, could not get it out.

The next day, take them out for lunch before we go to Bay Beach.

And of course, it comes out as we're sitting at the restaurant table.

And you forget as a grandpa.

You forget how much stress there is in being a parent.

Oh,

yeah.

Oh, a lot.

You know?

Yeah, for sure.

I mean, it's

like people don't realize that sometimes until you

look

back and it's like, holy

crap.

I feel like we know too much nowadays, too.

Like there's way too much information being shoved at us all the time as parents.

And so you feel a lot more pressure than maybe like my parents did.

I know my mom's like, I'm so glad I don't have to parent through all this technology.

Because I started, I got a phone when I was like just finishing high school and it was like the big block Nokia phone where you could literally only call people.

So it's just so different now.

Yeah, it really is.

Like you said, there's so many advantages too.

Yeah, for sure.

I mean, honestly being able to like communicate with my kids and yeah, and just like they're busy kids.

So it's just nice to know what's going on.

And yeah, nowadays there's crazy things going on.

So it is nice to know where they are.

And it's

pretty cool as these kids get even older school that, you know, people can argue AI, but it's so nice that.

You don't have to, remember, no, you're young, Johnny.

Remember when we had to do research, go to the library

and get that stuff up and now it's just- I still have some days of that too for sure.

I mean, we still wrote papers in high school, like on paper.

I was telling my kids that.

They were like, what?

Well, Jim being a teacher though, this whole AI thing.

Thank God.

Well, yeah, now you gotta be careful.

I'm sure they give you some tools to hopefully work around that.

Well, this is how you catch, this is how I catch kids.

And I'm not a big AI guy

at

all.

When they're-

write things for seven weeks, and then their final paper is this unbelievable piece.

It's like, you did write that, and then you

fail them on that, and they're like,

I

wrote it, it's like, no, you didn't.

Can I tell you what Jim and I spent hours and hours doing?

Asking chat GPT, they have fun things.

Besides

that.

Watching these little kids from movies, the little kids with the fat heads,

and they're like, oh god.

Oh god, we watch it all the time.

Yes,

we

do.

Does

that make

us

hip or old?

We're kind of hip, aren't we?

Todd, please, the fifth.

Oh, God, it's so funny.

Oh, man.

Anyway, yes.

And Todd's like, that's AI stuff.

We're like, I'll invest.

That is so funny.

Isn't it?

I know.

There is some pretty cool stuff.

Like the other day, I saw this on TikTok and I was like, I have to try it.

It was, you can ask, like, take this.

cute photo of my nephew and turn it into a coloring book page and then add like farm animals around him.

And it like, it turned out so cute.

I was like, this is cool.

Got

a texture.

Kimberly is amazing.

She is from Sarah.

Thank you, Sarah.

That's so sweet.

We had two minutes left.

Wrap it up one more time.

Everything you got going on.

Yes.

So celebrations.

We started last week.

This week we're in Ribb Mountain and we're in Marshfield tomorrow and Wednesday.

So come out again.

Tented events, sellcom.com slash celebrate has all the details on all the really cool deals.

like we were just talking about and what happens at those.

But again, it's free food, free dessert, all the fun things and giveaways.

New

products, new

promotions.

Yeah, and you can test it all out.

Do you have to be a customer?

You do not, absolutely not.

Yep.

Anyone can come.

Anyone can come.

And you can come to all of them if you want.

Take all the free food.

So I could actually talk to a guy about what can I put on those

cameras.

Oh yeah, absolutely.

They have all their computers all set up and they're doing sales as we speak in the tent.

I love

that.

Me too.

Yeah,

that's gonna be awesome.

Thank you for doing that.

And look, we're sorry you went through that, but every

company does and

people handle it differently.

And

for sure.

We appreciate the support.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

This is

great.

All right.

Well, good.

We'll have a fun summer.

We'll see you at one of your

celebrations.

I

was going to call it.

I've never seen you stressed

in all the

situations I've seen you

in.

Let me know in a few months.

August, they got a great spokesperson.

Person right there with you.

I'll tell you what no lie Kimberly Sawyer.

She's awesome.

You said a quick break Kristen Embo's point mortgage joins us

next

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Now back to Mino and the Mayor.

Here's John Mino and Jim Schmidt.

Hey, thank you very much.

Welcome back.

Great having Kimberly Sawyer on from N-Site and Cellcom with some fantastic things they've got going on.

Joining us now, Kristen Ambo's Point Mortgage Corporation, and of course her podcast, Always On Point.

I just wish she would bring a little bit more energy to the table.

And a little bit more

knowledge about the

industry.

Yeah, and I

wish she was so

wishy-washy about

everything.

Try and back it

all down.

Yeah.

Good morning.

Good morning.

Nice to see you.

Good to see you guys too.

So we were talking, okay, the area I drive in Green Bay, I'm surprised, I've mentioned this to Jim a couple of times, nice little neighborhoods, nothing wrong with them or anything, the houses look nice, I don't know if they're flips or anything, but for the first time in a very long time, I saw price reduction on a house that's available.

It's happening,

it's happening, there's like a little bit of a tug of war.

out there right now between buyers and sellers.

And buyers are kind of putting their hands up saying, I'm not paying it anymore.

And sellers are still trying to list and get prices in last year's market.

Two years ago.

And

neither one wants to

give.

Neither one wants to give yet.

So it's not a buyer's market.

It's not a seller's market.

There are still a few pockets.

But here's the deal.

And I can't say it enough right now.

When you hire a realtor.

and they bring you all the evidence of all the comparables in the last six months that's sold.

And they give you advice on how to price it.

If you go $10,000, $20,000, $30,000 over that, you're going to be doing a price reduction.

That's almost exactly what we're seeing right now.

And agents don't want to undercut it because they want you to make less money.

They want to make more money too.

However, they want to move it.

they want to sell it for you.

They don't want to sit on it forever.

And then that's what's happening.

And then what happens is, is if it's sitting on the market for a week, two weeks, what's wrong with that house?

What's wrong with

it?

And then if you do a price reduction, what's really wrong?

Yeah.

So right now

pricing it right in this market is huge.

And for sure the seller is going to say, wait a minute, why would I go lower than my neighbors?

My neighbor next door, I got a buddy.

My buddy at the bar

said, but no matter what they do, they're going to need you because, well,

some don't,

but

some pay cash, but

not, not, not a lot, a lot.

And, um, and you're seeing some stability in your business.

Are

you not?

I am.

Yes.

Business is very good.

And I'll tell you what, I'm doing more VA loans right now, which I love to see because a couple of years ago sellers, quote unquote,

Didn't want anyone with a VA loan.

Got a lot of spin on that.

But

I think, I think it kind of has a little bit of a bad rap.

Cause

I remember when I first heard it's

like, oh, if there's paint peeling, you won't get your loan.

If

that step is in purpose, I never found that to be.

No, it's not.

If you understand lending on the VA side, you know, um, I try to let people know to my husband's veteran, our loan is a VA.

We've bought, we've sold, we've refinanced, we've bought again, you know, everything VA.

But working with somebody who really understands VA is where it lands.

I just had two people I closed last month in VA where their other lender wasn't, like they didn't have even the common knowledge of VA, but then promoting themselves as a VA expert.

And so,

It can go awry when you're working with somebody who doesn't know how to do VA or the quirks of it.

And VA is a super great opportunity for people.

And when they have that benefit to be able to use that, it's huge.

I'm working with one right now who, you know, they're selling their house from out of town coming in.

They have about $300,000 to put down, but they only really, you know, 20% and they don't even have to have 20% on VA.

They could do no money down.

But we had the conversation as we were running different price points and different down payments for them because right now what they're doing is, am I going to make more money in the market or am I going to pay more money in interest?

And so they're doing their due diligence to say, yeah, we could put $300,000 down on this, but maybe it's only really worth putting 50 and putting 250 in the market.

and making more money towards retirement.

So a lot of times they have the money, they're just choosing to put it elsewhere because they don't have to put it into their loan.

I know people like that.

I'm not, I'm just, yeah, I meet to the house.

You know, I sleep better when I don't have debt,

but

some people, they leverage

it different ways.

Those are pretty smart people.

They do it in a way where they could pull, if they ever got in a pinch, they could pull out of that investment and pay their house off.