This is the Empowered Caregiver Show.
If you are a caregiver or know someone who is,
this show is meant to uplift you through education and support,
while also lifting up every caregiver's invaluable role in society.
Now, here is the Empowered Caregiver and your host,
Liza Helen Brand.
You are listening to the Empowered Caregiver
and I am your host, Liza Helen Brand.
And today, I am going to be talking about relationships.
Nate, I know that you are in a relationship.
How long have you and your significant other been together?
A little over a year now.
A year and a couple months.
Okay, so still maybe in that honeymoon phase-ish.
I'd say maybe out of that, we just moved in,
but we're pretty close.
Congratulations.
So I'm curious, what do you think the key is for a successful relationship?
The key to a successful relationship is communication.
Yes.
Talking, talking with your significant other about anything that comes up.
That's a good one.
That's a good one.
For me, peanut M&Ms, I mean, it's the only thing I know,
just feed the man, peanut M&Ms,
and it just keeps coming back.
Where are Reese's pieces?
There you go.
There you go.
But I think long-term, your answer is better.
But the U.S. and World Report said caregivers are particularly susceptible to divorce,
with 80% reporting strain on their relationships.
Estimates of the divorce rate for couples in which one spouse has a serious chronic illness
are as high as 75%.
According to Psychology Today, surveys show that the rate of divorce in families
with a child with disabilities may be as high as 87% out.
So I feel like I cannot do a weekly radio show for caregivers without addressing the impact that it has on relationships.
And since February is the month of love, I really want to know how do we create and maintain successful relationships?
Today, I'm going to be talking with Robin Schnitzler from Relationship Therapy of Madison.
And I want to learn from Robin, what is the foundation of a strong relationship?
What do you do if you didn't start out with that strong foundation?
How do you advocate for your needs in a relationship without causing friction?
Or excuse me, friction?
And how do you deal with things like resentment?
And what are some strategies to help keep relationships going strong?
There is so much that I want to cover.
So let's jump right in. Welcome, Robin.
Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.
Yeah, so Robin is a relationship therapist and owner of Relationship Therapy of Madison. Got that correct?
Mm-hmm.
Okay. And before we get started, can you tell listeners a little bit about your professional background and what drew you to this kind of work?
I have a background of a Master's of Marriage and Family Therapy from Edgewood College.
I also studied as an undergraduate in psychology.
I grew up with a sibling, with the disability, and I care for several members in my family and extended family.
So that gives you the connection between my work and this show.
I have a vivid memory of watching my parents at the kitchen table during dinner,
like talking at each other, but not actually communicating.
And at one point, actually trying to let them know that they're not actually hearing each other.
So I feel like I've been tuned into this for a long time.
And I've also had, honestly, several of my own really poor experiences with couples therapists over the years.
This is a second career for me and something that I always wanted to get into.
Oh, really, I would have not have guessed that you are so knowledgeable and so good at it.
And I am so glad that I am able to have this conversation with you today.
So I mentioned earlier that the divorce rate for couples in the caregiving role can be extremely high.
Now I have some good guesses for that and some personal experience to rely on here,
but from your professional experience, what are some of the extra layers you see
when it comes to caregiving and relationships?
Well, there's things that everyone's going to think about right away,
which is there's time demand, attention demand, energy demand,
so that the partner who's maybe more involved with that has got less to offer of the relationship.
But I don't think that's the cause of the breakdown.
Typically, and this goes to generally speaking about relationships,
it's very easy for a partner to decide inside their own head that
I can't bring whatever this thing is on my mind to my partner because of ABC.
And ABC could be all the things that have to do with my partners are already overwhelmed.
They don't have time.
And so what happens is the partner that's on the outside of that,
they start to feel like what they need doesn't matter.
But it's not even clear that they've checked in with their partner.
So what can happen is the divide just gets bigger.
I watch my partner, they're busy taking care of grandma or the child or whatever it is or both.
And they just start to feel like they disappear.
And I would suggest if I was working with a couple like that,
that their needs matter too.
And how do they continue to have a voice at the table,
which doesn't mean that we're blaming the other person for caring for other people.
What it means is, is there room in this relationship for me to share how I feel
and what I need and what I long for,
even though we're together navigating these extra demands.
That makes that makes so much sense.
So I just want to make sure I got that get this right.
So you're saying the person who is the primary caregiver,
may be unintentionally neglecting some of the needs of the relationship that they're in.
And the person that's feeling that kind of left out or that lack or yearning,
I would imagine would have a hard time voicing that,
because they know and they can see how much stress and pressure and demands are put on their partner.
So it almost feels not fair sometimes, would that be?
Right, so they might think, as they watch that primary caregiver,
they might think, I wouldn't feel like a good person.
It would be unkind of me to add my demands to that.
And what I would suggest is if we have decided that we're in this relationship together,
then that relationship needs that.
There needs to be a space in that relationship field to come together and share.
How has this been for you?
What's going on?
How are we each navigating it?
Is it need to stay this way or how can we at least understand how we feel,
even if maybe it can't change,
but we're still clearly talking about how we feel and what's hard.
It's when we deny that space, that communication space,
that distance and resentment goes.
And that makes sense.
So you're right.
Sometimes things can't change.
There's demands that are put on caregivers that absolutely have to be met.
They're the ones, right?
They're the ones that take care of that.
But if you allow the space for communication and relationship,
and you know, to still have the love there,
then the person on the other end of it at least still feels valued and important included.
Correct.
And sometimes it's just a matter of saying, I miss you,
and not having that be, you're doing something wrong.
But I miss you.
Like, I haven't been close to lately.
And that's really important to me.
And I'm looking forward to it when we can do that.
And it does take some work to get to a space where people can share those thoughts
without it becoming, like, you're disappointing your partner, right?
But that's a really good place to get to.
And that's such a vulnerable, vulnerable way to put it.
And I have to say, okay, I'm going to give my first plus for myself in the relationship column,
actually to my husband, he doesn't more so than me, he will say that to me.
Like, I miss you.
See you every day, but we're not connecting, and I just miss you.
And I appreciate that vulnerability.
I am Liza Hallenbrand.
You're listening to the empowered caregiver today.
I'm talking with Robin Jnitzler from the Relationship Therapy of Madison.
Robin, what are people really yearning for in the relationships?
I think it's a sense of connection.
You know, you could probably ask a lot of master therapists what that answer is.
And I would say that when I think about all of those kinds of philosophies,
I think human beings want to feel connected.
They want to feel that it matters, that they are there.
It matters that, you know, they have feelings and needs and wants.
And so then, really, the question comes in, how do we bring all those things into the relationship?
That's not to say that some people aren't in that category.
But I think, generally speaking, yeah, that we're building some kind of life together.
We're on this journey together, and that we...
The team were a team, and we're connected.
I like that.
And that's interesting that you say that, because that's often the phrase that people come into my practice saying,
I don't feel like we're a team.
So that's interesting that you should say that.
Ah, yeah.
That's the thing that they want to change.
Is that a reasonable request?
I mean, is that the right word to use?
That we're a team, or am I missing something?
No, no, it's perfect.
And it's the way that people...
When the things aren't going in a way that feels fulfilling, that's often a phrase that comes up.
Yeah.
Yeah, that would make sense.
I mean, I'm going through a million struggles that I've been married for 21 years,
and some of that, my fair share of challenges.
And I think when it comes up, when things start getting really gritty,
it's when I don't feel like we are a team.
So big part of it.
Where do you see relationships derail?
One of the biggest ones is when people take things personally.
So let's say one partner is having a hard time about something.
It could be about the partner or about anything,
but the way they choose to express it,
the other partner feels like they're being attacked,
or the words feel unkind, or they're partnered, angry with them.
And what I work almost with every couple on is that may all be true,
but let's slow that down and let's start with depersonalizing it.
What if it's not about you?
So my partner is having an experience, they're getting emotionally big,
shall we say?
And maybe I can be curious.
Oh my gosh, I'm wondering what's happening with my partner right now
instead of suddenly taking it as an attack.
The same experience can be processed either way.
So I encourage people to process it with curiosity.
That's not to say we won't go back to, you know, how does this affect me?
But let's not start there.
Can you give me an example?
Someone says, I'm so upset that you, you know,
you left the laundry in the bathroom again,
and the partner gets really upset.
They're like, well, I was really busy and I had to go to work,
and I, right, but what's happening underneath those layers is
the first partner made a request,
and they count on their second partner to respond to it.
That tells them, you care about me, you love me.
And so when they don't respond that way,
and they ignore the request, then the message the first person gets is
a disappointment and a little bit of a heart injury.
When I call it a heart injury, and then like,
they feel like the partner doesn't care.
And so the response to that in the better scenario is not so much
that I did something wrong and I have to defend myself,
but like, oh gosh, you're right.
I see that upset you, it was important to you.
I'm sorry that it had that effect.
When we come back, we're going to talk resentment.
You can find the empowered caregiver on Spotify, Apple Podcast,
the Civic Media website, or anywhere else you get your podcasts.
The year listening to the empowered caregiver,
and I am your host, Eliza Helen Brand,
since February, is seen by many as the month of love.
I wanted to use this week of valentines to talk about how caregivers,
some of the most strained, tired, emotionally overwhelmed people on the planet
can have successful relationships.
Joining me today is Robin Schnitzler with Relationship Therapy of Madison.
So there has been times where I have attempted to advocate for my needs,
and either I feel like it's went in one ear and out the other,
or like we were talking about before break,
it kind of backfired and led to an argument.
So I'm curious, how do you advocate for your needs in a relationship
without creating friction or inserting anger or blame?
I think that the first part is that each partner needs to be really clear about what it is they need and want.
So that might sound basic, but sometimes people don't know that.
They know maybe more about what they don't want to have happen.
The other thing is, I want to talk about the context.
Let's go back for a second, the context of these conversations.
So when you say that you bring something and it doesn't go well,
maybe it doesn't get heard is what you were saying.
So when I'm thinking of, we talk a lot about what the setup is for these conversations.
So if I want to talk to you about how I feel about our child starting a new school
or going on a vacation or a surgery that's coming up,
those are pretty important conversations.
Do I want to have those kinds of conversations when we're passing each other
in the morning going to work?
And so the idea of creating a context for these conversations is really important.
Some of my clients have taken to the idea of we're going to have a couch conversation.
When that means it really needs our attention.
And there's some really important pieces to that.
It's, are both people available time wise?
Are we available emotionally?
Do we have the energy?
Are we hungry?
Are we in the rush?
How much time do we have?
There's a lot of ways to create successful conversations.
So that's like going back, that would be the beginning.
Are we both ready to have the conversation?
I love that.
I just want to recap that to make sure I got it right because I think it's important.
When we are going to have these important conversations that we check in with our cells
and let our partners check in with their themselves to see, is this a good time?
And sometimes you're right.
When you say, are you hungry?
I think, well, that's silly.
But I mean, that can be a game changer, right?
A angry, you don't want to have conversations, angry or tired or stressed
or when you have 10 minutes to have a deep conversation.
So number one, before you have a big conversation, if I'm hearing you correctly,
check in with yourself and check in with your significant other
and make sure that you're both available.
And what do you say if you're not?
Well, yeah, we'll do that in a second.
So I wanted to say though, in the being available, when you bring the conversation to the partner,
you have to tell them what it's about.
I just want to make that perfectly clear.
It's not okay to say, I want to talk to you about something important.
Can we do that now?
That's like the number one way to get your partner really anxious.
It also doesn't allow them to answer the question about whether or not they're ready to have the conversation.
And what can also happen for these things is the person who wants to talk about it,
how long has that person been thinking about it and now maybe it's a new topic.
So if you say, you know, I've been thinking about changing schools for a little Johnny
and you want to talk about it, then give that partner a chance to like get up to speed
or at least think about it.
So just want to put it out there.
We want to make sure that we're telling our partner, can we talk about this and this is the topic?
Oh, that is such great advice because I have done that so many times
where I have been ruminating or thinking or getting angry or whatever.
Or in the case of a school researching and you're right, doing all of this background work
before I dump it on my husband.
And then I'm like, I'm frustrated by his response when this is all completely new information to him.
Right.
Yes.
So we've got that squared away.
But let, oh, no, go ahead.
What else?
You wanted to know how do you say no?
Yes.
So if the answer can't be asked, and of course we all hope it's yes, but we want to remember
that if our partner says no, it's that we both have the same end goal.
And that is that we want to have a successful conversation.
So if I say, that sounds like a really important topic, I'm not prepared to give it the attention
that I want it to right now.
Can we please do another time?
That's different than saying no, which by itself can sound like I don't care.
Right.
What about this?
What about you say yes?
You start to have the conversation.
This happens to me.
I get overwhelmed.
I shut down.
I don't want to finish this conversation right now.
And then I have somebody chasing me around the house trying to finish a conversation that I don't want to have.
What do you do there?
So you just described a lot of different dynamics.
So let's just talk about the basic idea that in the middle of a conversation it can get really difficult
and it might be best to have it pause.
And that actually could go and either it shows up differently, right, for different dynamics.
But in the case of you, what you might particularly say is again, I'm having this experience.
I would like this to be successful.
I can't do that right now.
So it's a lot of self accountability.
It's not like what the other partner is not doing or doing wrong or something like that.
Yeah.
And I think you have to give props to your partner when they have the ability to advocate and say that for themselves instead of push back.
You know, we're going to have this now.
We got to do this now.
I want to figure this out.
Like realizing that you know what the other person might need some time to process and think things through.
The other thing that I wanted to touch on was resentment.
But what was your final thought?
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off.
So that process of someone being able to step back and say maybe we aren't going to finish this conversation right now.
That requires some level of trust that we can tell ourselves,
A, I'm okay being uncomfortable for a little while.
And B, I trust that we're going to have this conversation other time.
The fear that those things won't happen or aren't true is what's hard.
So if I start to get anxious, I want to solve it right now.
So being able to self-soothe, I'm going to go take a walk.
I'm going to try to hear that my partner wants to do this at a better space.
And also have a trust hopefully built on a track record of knowing that we can have this conversation another time.
Well, you know what?
I must have a lot of resentment in my relationship because I just keep saying resentment, resentment, resentment.
And now we're coming up on break and I don't want, it's another big topic.
I don't want to leave, leave you without enough time to jump into it.
But you know, so just kind of focusing on what we're talking about now.
So when you get to a place where you feel like I can't do this conversation anymore.
If we keep going this route, it's not going to end well.
And that's not my objective.
And the other person says, okay, you're just avoiding me.
We're never going to get to talk about this.
Is it, is it safe?
Is it fair to set up, you know what, can we talk about it tomorrow after dinner?
Right. So there's two pieces to that I would say.
One is, have a conversation outside of those conversations that says, hey, this happens to us.
And this is what our plan is.
Can we agree that sometimes one of us is going to need to abort the conversation or take a pause?
And so that if you have that discussion outside of those moments, at least there's a reference point inside those moments.
But the other thing I really like what you said, which is something that is really important,
to specifically talk about when is the plan to continue it.
That will provide comfort to the person who really wants to continue it.
That wants to finish the conversation.
And the last piece of that is, if I say to my partner, I can do this after work tomorrow,
it's most important that I at least go back to my partner at that time.
That makes perfect sense after the short break, resentment.
You are listening to the empowered caregiver,
and I am your host, Liza Helen Brown.
Today I'm here with Robin Schnitzler from Relationship Therapy of Madison.
And there is an elephant in the room for many caregivers that I want to make sure that we talk about.
And that is resentment, and how do we successfully move past it?
So, Robin, what is your take?
I'm just going to let you run with this question.
I think that we need to think about what resentment is caused from.
So, for example, am I feeling resentful because I'm not getting enough attention
or because I'm doing things with my family or my partner that I don't want to be doing?
Like, what is the piece that's hard?
And I would say that most of those questions are rooted in some place at some time.
I have not been true to myself.
And by not being true to myself, I've made you to maybe agree to something or not spoken up about something.
And then I find myself feeling resentful.
So, it can look like I'm angry at my partner.
I would argue that it's I'm angry with myself, that I haven't been honest with myself.
And if we're not honest with ourselves, we can't be honest with our partner.
So, I would say the foundation underneath the resentment piece is leading with building skills
so that we know how we feel and what we need and what we want.
And so, that we're able to bring that to our partner.
And that will set a foundation where resentment doesn't actually have to live.
Well, that's what I was going to ask you when you're mad at yourself.
And see that, you know, kind of subconsciously or not realizing that.
But do you find people have a hard time identifying that or not really why they're resentful?
So, I'm going to answer that sideways, which is that couples can have a hard time speaking their truth
because they feel it will get their partner upset.
I don't agree to go somewhere.
I don't like that food.
You know, there's a lot of ways in which we try to keep the peace.
And by keeping the peace, you know, in that moment, maybe it's a win.
But over a long period of time, it builds up a history of feeling like my needs don't matter.
But actually, who's orchestrated that?
It would be me for allowing my needs not to be spoken.
So, there's a risk people are unwilling to take often, which is I'm not really interested in doing that.
You know, saying no is really hard.
And so, one of the things I work on is true yeses and true noes.
So, if I ask you, do you want to go to this really loud rock concert with me?
And you don't like really loud things and you say yes, that's not a true yes, right?
At the same time, if, you know, I guess I can't give an opposite example,
but it's really important to be able to say no, that doesn't work for me.
And you just say it like that.
Well, you know, it depends, I mean, again, like I referenced earlier,
we can create an attunement with our partner when we're turning them down, right?
I really like that you want me to go to this concert with you.
I just don't think that my body can handle that right now.
And so, I'm really happy to be home with the kids, and you want to go with a friend,
or if we can find another concert to go to together, you know,
I just, I love the idea of spending time with you, I just don't think that's it.
So, adding maybe that, that appreciation, connection, and connection.
What about the example that you said of the restaurant, if I say,
if I do stay dinner one more time, my husband has like, he has like a one go to place,
like one trick pony, and I don't want to do that.
And then, okay, then it's my way or the highway.
You know what I'm saying? See how the like backfires?
Well, so, this is why getting to know yourself is really important.
There are going to be some places that I'm like super comfortable.
Then there's going to be like an outer ring where, you know, not my favorite.
And then there's going to be things that are real stretch.
And so, we have to decide how much time we're willing to spend at each of those places.
But the piece that comes in with relationships, in my opinion, with that is,
what do we enjoy about our partner enjoying themselves, right?
So, is there a value to say, I'm going to do this thing with my partner because they love it.
And it's not too far out of my, in my stretch zone, right?
So, for example, I personally wouldn't go to a loud rock concert.
But I might go to another kind of concert, even if I might prefer to stay home that night.
Because I really want to spend time with my partner, or maybe because I just love being with them
because they're in such joy in that, in that experience.
So, it has to do with monitoring if you're going to say yes to something that isn't your favorite thing.
Is it still within some level of comfort where it doesn't build resentment?
That makes sense. And what about a level of compromise?
You know what? I'm not feeling like this tonight.
I know you want to celebrate and have a steak dinner.
I can do it next time.
Can we have an Italian?
Just set the stage for, so it's, you know, when the next time when it comes time to go out to eat,
he's going to pick that one restaurant that he knows and loves.
And I've already kind of established that.
Is that, is that sound fair?
Absolutely.
I think the thing about compromise, which is so interesting, is sometimes it's really helpful to meet each other in your favorite places
as opposed to a third option.
The third options can feel really good if you both agree, but they can also feel like completely unsatisfying of nobody agrees.
So I really encourage people to visit your partners sort of favorite places if it's not too much of a stretch.
Yeah, that's you.
Okay. Resentment. What else?
What else is there that we need to know or cover or talk about?
So in the category of asking for what we need and want and being able to say what's true for us,
I pay particular attention to what am I asking and what do I need?
So let's say I come home from work and I want to go outside and I want to take a walk with the dog.
And I go to my partner and say, hey, do you want to go for a walk with the dog with me?
That partner doesn't actually know very much unless we're doing some mind reading.
They don't actually know whether the most important thing is to get out and exercise,
or whether the most important thing is, hey, I missed you all day and I really want to spend time with you.
Or it might even be that I want to go out and walk the dog by myself,
but I'm afraid to tell you that because I feel like I'll hurt your feeling.
So what I encourage people to do is when you interact with your partner,
especially when you're asking questions, be really clear about what it is.
And it sounds really tedious, but it really just involves checking with yourself.
What do I really want? What's my priority?
And the thing I bring people back to is a lot of times when we're in courtship,
we say things like, would you like to go to dinner or something on Saturday?
And when we say it like that, it's still not super clear.
But the message is, I want to spend that time with you and I don't really care what it is.
And so what if I come home from work and I say, I've missed you, can we spend time together?
It could be walking the dog or it could be this.
But my main goal is like, I just want to spend time with you.
That's really clear.
I love that.
Get clear on the goal or the intention because that makes perfect sense.
I mean, there are times where my husband will say, you want to go out to eat
and I think it's because it's dinner and we need to eat.
And I'll say, nah, I don't feel like it'll kind of blow it off.
But he might be really saying, hey, I'm kind of craving some connection.
I'd like to spend some time with you.
And then he gets disappointed or let down or angry because I just blow it off as a no,
like, you know, let's just throw in a pizza or do something simple.
So I love that.
Be clear on your intentions.
I want to switch gears a little bit.
So in school, we're not taught on how to have healthy relationships.
What do you think some of the skills are that you need to have to be able to have a healthy relationship?
I mean, the other part of that that came to mind for me is many of you us grew up in dysfunctional families.
And we saw dysfunctional relationships.
So there's another way that we can go with this question.
Where does that show up when you're an adult out trying to now have a relationship?
And I guess my biggest point of either way that you want to go with this is kind of creating that level of awareness,
if that makes sense on what it what it takes.
Well, I think I would start with the word relationship.
I think that that means a lot of things to different people.
So for one couple or actually one partner, it might be I want to spend our time together.
And this is actually a big one.
What sort of default is and time in a relationship is our default time that we spend time together and we plan time apart.
Or is our default time like independent and we plan time together.
You can see how people that might be mismatched in that.
So one person who thinks we should spend our baseline time together is paired with somebody else.
Like why is this person like not kind of in my ring all the time, right?
So that can be so setting expectations.
I think it's the most important thing communicating what it is that's important to you in a relationship.
So I want to make sure I got that because this is another piece that I think is very like jaw-dropping, eye-opening, aha moment,
is that you need to get clear on what relationship means to you.
Does it mean that we're always together and sometimes you find things to do on your own?
Does it mean that you're more independent and you find time to be together?
Did I get that right?
Right. And there's probably, you know, in between.
But the point is that if people are too under that spectrum, then there's going to be a lot of tension.
Like about why the other person's not acting the way you are assuming makes a good relationship.
And both of them can be great.
Both those prototypes can be great relationships.
It's just tricky when you get different needs and different expectations.
And the worst part of it is that you're not talking about it.
Right. And you probably don't even realize it.
So giving someone, so everyone listening, give some thought.
What is my need?
What kind of person am I, right?
And does it match?
And is this a problem that I find myself running into now that you've kind of explained it?
What are some other things that you see that kind of come up when you have been raised in a dysfunctional family
without good modeling and relationships?
Well, without self-reflection and personal growth, we often repeat the patterns.
Even if we do those things, we still repeat patterns.
So if I've watched, you know, my father allow my mother to make all the decisions.
Even if he grumbles in his chair, then, you know, and I'm male.
And let's just say that that's the person I identify with.
Maybe I'm not male, but I identify with my father.
Then I might think that that's what I need to do to be loved and to be in a relationship is to sort of turn over the decision making to my partner.
And that can actually build resentment too, right?
Because we may not like that dynamic, but we've now started to recreate that.
In some cases, for years, because there hasn't been a like an awareness brought to it.
And I would say the other piece is the belief system, right?
We also need to notice not just what the interaction is with the two people, but what is my belief system?
Do I believe that both people in the partnership should share decision making?
Do I even think it's possible, right?
We may not even know that it's possible or think that we deserve to have a voice,
unless we start building that capacity in ourself, given what we maybe grew up with.
So curiosity comes to mind for me, just, you know, being able to do that self-reflection and kind of get curious.
What do my parents relationship look like?
How is that creeping into my relationships and then maybe have that conversation to see how the other person feels?
I feel like we do this relationship thing without a lot of guidance or rules or knowing what the other person wants or how they feel.
So to me, that would be key in the healthy relationship.
What else? What other skills or strategies maybe could a person use to have a healthy relationship?
I think it just keeps coming back to self accountability and self-awareness.
If I'm able to bring myself authentically to my partner or maybe a new one in the world, I can have healthy relationships.
I can state what my boundaries are, I can state what my requests are, my preferences.
That doesn't mean I'll get them all, but how do I come forward authentically and then have a conversation about how we both get our needs met?
What does that mean? Can you expand down that a little bit? What does it mean to come forward authentically?
So I can go to my partner and say, I've been thinking about this trip that we're taking next winter and as we've been planning it,
it's looking like it's going to cost a lot more than we anticipated and I have some concerns about taking the kids out of school.
I need to rethink that with you because I'm starting to feel some anxiety about it and I don't want to just keep going down the path,
which would be the easier path, especially when there's a lot of planning already set for something.
But to be able to stay present with myself and say, I'm not sure this is still working.
Can we talk about it and maybe figure out a way that I can feel better about it and do we have any concerns?
Stay present, self-reflect, and be able to, I think once you spend that time with that self-reflection,
it helps you articulate your needs in a calm and peaceful way that avoids argument and friction.
You're listening to the empowered caregiver and I'm your host, Liza Hallembrand.
I'm here today with Roblin Schitzer from Relationship Therapy of Madison.
Next time we are next.
Next, we're going to talk about how not to survive but thrive in your relationships.
You are listening to the empowered caregiver and I am your host, Liza Hallembrand.
Since February is seen by many as the month of love, I wanted to use the week of Valentine's Day
to talk about how caregivers, some of the most strained, tired, and emotionally overwhelmed people on the planet
can have successful relationships.
Joining me today is Robin Schnitzler with Relationship Therapy of Madison.
So, Robin, I know I had talked about the statistics around divorce and caregiving, unfortunately, are high.
And it makes me sad because I think it's those people that really could use the love and support in their relationships and their lives.
So, what I want to focus on for the next few minutes is how do we create these relationships that we want?
What do we need to do? What do we need to let go of to make it happen?
Well, we've talked about a number of skills as far as setting up conversations to be successful, being authentic, being true to ourselves,
being able to say yes or no authentically.
I would say from a broad perspective, sharing appreciations and gratitude has got a long history of research of how that improves mental health
and this idea that we share it with our partners, we can do it as an individual practice, but also sharing with our partner.
And I would say sharing specifically, not just like, oh, thanks for making dinner, but I really enjoyed that chicken dish.
It was just so tasty and it was like maybe the best time you've made it, you know.
So, it's really specific, um, appreciations can feel a little bit more heartfelt and more connecting.
I'd say prioritizing joy and prioritizing couple time, which is really hard. I get that.
But if we don't prioritize couple time, and I would say do that before you go to a couple's therapist, because that's also prioritizing couple's time.
But go ahead and try to set up regular time when you're enjoying each other.
I like that. I want to, I want to go back to the joy in the couple time, but I want to start with the, with the first thing that you said about appreciation, because we had a conversation the other day.
And I can't recall who it was, but when you said when they say goodbye, I love you and it just, it sounds generic.
So, can you just speak a little bit more to what you're talking about about that authentic appreciation?
Because I think it's easy for a lot of people to throw out the gratitude just to be able to check that box, you know what I mean?
Yeah, well, I think it has to do with mindfulness, right?
So, if I'm thinking about what I'm saying, and I say, wow, I watched you really go through a long bedtime routine with our little one this morning.
I'm sorry with this evening, and I feel like you're just like such an amazing parent, and I feel it really warms my heart, and I'm so like in love with you all over again when I just witnessed that.
That feels really different.
It does. That's sweet.
I like that. The joy part.
Can you talk a little bit more?
What term did you use? Create joy?
Prioritize joy. Prioritize joy. Yeah.
What does that mean? What does that look like?
Well, I guess it has to do with like what your philosophy is on life, right?
But I work with a lot of couples that are maybe both of them are working and they have young children.
There's so many demands on our time, no matter actually what lay stage we're in.
And, you know, if we don't make time for the fun stuff, it's just not going to happen.
And so that's what I'm talking about.
Like, do we want to believe that life is about all the stuff we have to do?
Do we also want to believe that it's about creating joy and enjoying our relationships?
And what are some ways that you can think of that that can be done if, you know,
you don't have that stretch of time to maybe do the dinner in the movie or, you know,
do some big activity if you do have, let's say, a special needs child at home.
And it's just hard, you know, there's not enough hours in the day.
Yeah, well, a joyful moment can be sitting together on the couch holding hands while a little one is playing on the living room carpet.
I mean, it's the moments. I mean, I think that people can look back on their courtship and remember that the moments don't have to be a five hour date.
And if I'm reading between the lines here, it's really about being present.
And putting a focus on connecting, putting an effort into making that connection happen.
Because I sit next to my husband a lot of nights and watch TV and, mmm, joy is not a word that comes to mind.
Yeah, so that takes an effort.
What about let go? What do you have to, what are some things that you have to let go of perhaps
if you really want to have a successful relationship?
Being right.
You know, there's a phrase, you could be right or you can be happy. It's a little bit like that.
Yeah.
But the idea that I have a point of view and that it's the right point of view, that's probably not going to work.
I would strongly suggest letting go of that.
And moving instead into curiosity, like, I've always done this thing this way.
It's really interesting to me that you've, you know, you're suggesting this.
And I'm not saying that's going to be the easiest thing in the moment.
But maybe later on you can say, tell me more about why you, you know, cook the chicken that way.
And also, you know, letting go in the moment might be that we don't say anything.
And we talk about it later and we ask and we be curious.
But maybe letting go in the moment is just allowing.
I like that the letting go in the moment.
I think there's a lot of times in relationships where very reactionary.
And if we would just take the time to stop and reflect.
And like you said, get curious and address it from a, at a different time, a different mindset.
Things would go better.
Yeah.
What else is there any other thing in the last few minutes?
Our last minute or so that you would like to, to get out that you think would really help couples.
Yeah. So the Godmines talk about sharing hopes and dreams.
And I think that's really important.
And if you remember, I keep referring back to courtship because that's the days when people have hope.
There's a lot of hope about the relationships then.
And we stop doing that.
I mean, we do maybe sometimes make plans for vacations, obviously, and things like that.
But the bigger hopes and dreams, how are we doing with how our family is growing?
What do we imagine for our retirement years or, you know, depending on your life stage?
What's the idea that we are sharing what our hopes and dreams are?
And in some cases, it might be unfinished thoughts.
What I call unfinished thoughts.
Like it might be, you know, we haven't done anything with the yard.
And I keep thinking about this rose garden.
And I have no idea how I would do it or when I would start.
But I just love this idea of having a rose garden.
Does that appeal to you?
Right? So I call it an unfinished thought because I don't have a plan.
And by the way, going to your partner with an unfinished thought is a really great way to build something together.
As opposed to going with a complete plan.
Ooh, I love that.
That is great advice.
Go to your partner with an unfinished thought.
Don't approach them with a complete plan.
Well, all the time.
All the time.
You know, love it.
I would love to thank, I also love, I guess, in the month of February.
I would love to thank my new sponsor, Wisconsin Family, and caregiver support Alliance.
You can learn more about them.
They have access to countless resources by visiting WisconsinCaregiver.org.
Or you can find them on Facebook at Wisconsin Family Caregiver Support Programs.
