A dark day for democracy (Hour 2)

Broadcasting across the state of Wisconsin on the Civic Media Radio Network and around the world on the Civic Media app.

This is the Dom Salvia show and now here's your host Dom Salvia.

This is the Dom Salvia show and it is on all the broadcast stations of Civic Media on this very important day.

This significant, hugely significant day in the history of America, coming to you from Radio Park in Racine, joined here in the studios of Civic Media by my outstanding producer and colleague as we talk with you today and analyze and discuss this major event in American history that's folding, unfolding, even as we speak.

Delighted to have you with me, but also my terrific producer, Jess, who's here with me, and we are going to be taking your phone call.

your comments, your questions.

Your inquiries, that number here is 855-752-4842.

I am not Dom Salvia, although I appear routinely with Jess and him on his show, typically late in the week.

Dom is away doing some important work today, and he has asked me to sit in for him on this important day in our history.

He probably did not predict that our syllabus, Jess, would be as dramatic as it has been.

but dictated by what otherwise would have been and still is a major news story coming out of Washington.

but increased in ferocity and magnitude and significant by the fact that there was almost a brawl this afternoon, this morning, today, throughout the day in the Oval Office of the White House, something that we have never seen before in American history, a contest, a fighting spat among the Vice President of the United States, the President of the United States, and the President of Ukraine.

coming here, coming here to try to attempt not only to patch over some differences, but arguably, arguably maybe sort of also

Talk about the possibility of an agreement that would have involved providing some of the minerals from Ukraine to the United States.

We'll get into that a little bit more.

It all went off the rails today.

We're gonna spend some time listening to that here on the broadcast stations of civic media, digesting it.

analyzing it and offering some commentary about why this is indeed so significant at the big levels, at the medium levels, at the small levels as well.

This once again, the Dom Salvia Show.

My name, Jim Santel, sitting in for Dom on this important day in our history.

Once again, soliciting with my partner,

Jess, your comments and questions at 855-752-4842.

You have become used to my beginning these kinds of analyses with some references to the law and to the Constitution.

Indeed, that's where we're going to begin this afternoon, even as we promise moving quickly into the major story, giving you some audio.

some sense of the calamity in the White House of earlier today.

But let's begin by thinking once again about the Constitution of the United States of America.

Whether you watch tonight on television or listen as you can in just a few moments to the audio of what happened in the Oval Office involving President Zelensky, President Trump, and Vice President Vance today, whether you do that, however you consume that particular piece of history.

going on today you will also come away thinking how is it how is it that we've come to this place that we've come to this time when we have leaders supposedly of the western world we'll get back to talk about world order concepts in just a few moments but you may also come to ask yourself how is it

that the President of the United States of America is the one who's engaging with foreign officials on these all-important issues.

That is not an insignificant question.

It's a civics question that, once again, I suspect that most of us who have gone through sixth, seventh, and eighth grade civics, maybe even later in your school years, understand.

But it's important to understand, too, that the responsibility

For international matters, yes indeed, including our relationship with Ukraine, our relationship to nations in Western Europe, in Africa, in Asia.

Australia, South America, North America, all places also derives from several different spots in the Constitution of the United States of America.

In fact, Article 2 of the Constitution, in which we talk all about the presidency setting up his, perhaps one day, her responsibilities under this terrific document, fairly sparse when it comes to international obligations and responsibilities, talk plainly in Section 1 and Section 2 about

Of course, being the commander-in-chief, that's no small thing.

And that gives rise to a lot of the president's responsibilities when it comes to overseas and international engagements.

Also talks about the capacity, the obligation of our president to appoint ambassadors, to sign off on treaties, to all kinds of other things that suggest the president does indeed have a significant role when it comes to engaging with foreign emissaries and foreign leaders.

But it's significant to note that, yes, indeed, the Congress of the United States of America, the first portion of the Constitution of the United States, Article I of the Constitution, provides an awful lot of responsibility vested in the Congress in our legislature as well.

Commerce, commerce involving foreign nations, things related to war powers, of course, that's the big one, declaring war, granting letters and rules.

captures on land and water, all kinds of things related to our movements around the globe, also imports.

significant these days as our president talks a lot about imports and tariffs in our nation and so it is important to remember even on this day when we focus upon the executive branch and its relationship to foreign nations that our Congress also has a say some involvement in this and indeed I suspect that one of the takeaways from this horrific thing that happened today in America

In the White House, 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue is, where is Congress?

What is the congressional response to this?

From both the Democrats, the Republicans, independents, all people across America should be asking their representatives how they feel about this.

And by that, I don't mean emotionally.

What their intellectual takeaway is from what they see and what they hear these days in the White House.

Specifically today, February 28th.

2025 here on the Dom Salvia show.

There is no doubt that the arrival of of Zelensky, Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine on Friday was a part of an orchestrated arrival.

The plan, of course, was to not only ease some of the tensions that have been growing between the current president of the United States and the current president of Ukraine, but also once again to perhaps negotiate, maybe even put the final

trappings of this deal related to minerals in Ukraine, maybe for some kind of odd repayment for the support that our nation has provided in the war against Russia.

But all of that, all of that follows an awful lot of indication that the world is changing and that world order

is no longer what it was even as late as a couple of months ago.

Jess and I are going to take you through a few of those specific indications that lead up to today's events that indicate again that over the past, frankly, weeks and certainly days, there has been a movement by this president to realign the very world order, the world order according to which we live and we breathe.

Let's begin with some things that you have all also digested in recent days.

We know that as much as we've got the routine visits of foreign officials

to the White House for various purposes.

Some of them, obviously, more closely allied to the United States than others.

One of our close allies, of course, is France.

And that goes back to the time of the Revolutionary War.

We know that well the support the French gave us in fighting the Brits.

And so, perhaps in some linear relationship between that and what happened just earlier this week, we had Emmanuel Macron.

who is, of course, the president of France visiting the president, sitting in the very chair that Zelensky was sitting in today and engaging with the president in some discussion about this issue of who is going to pay for or even repay for the support given the United States and Europe to fight the war effort in Ukraine.

The president began to talk about some of that and began to use words like repayment.

The Europeans doing the same thing.

And at some point, Emmanuel Macron, who plainly is appreciating fully what the president is saying, decided that he could not countenance that, could not stand to have what is basically a lie, not just a misstatement, a lie about the arrangements for that war support he reached over.

He grabbed the forearm of our president and began to speak and corrected our president on his basic fundamental lie about what was going on in connection with the sport given to our ally, at least up until today, and that's Ukraine.

Just do we have that cut with Immanuel

Macron?

Let's take a

listen.

Again, just so you understand, Europe is loaning the money to Ukraine.

They get their money back.

No, in fact, to be frank, we paid 60% of the total default.

And it was through, like the US, loans, guarantee, grants, and we provided real money to be clear.

We have 230 billion frozen assets in Europe, Russian assets, but this is not

as a collateral of a loan, because this is not our belonging.

So they are frozen.

If at the end of the day in the negotiation we will have with Russia, they're ready to give it to us, super.

It would be loaned at the end of the day, and Russia would have paid for that.

This is my wish.

If you believe that, it's OK with me.

Mr.

President.

If they get their money back, we don't, and now we do.

But that's only fair.

An incredible exchange in the White House just days ago in the very seats that the President of the United States and the President of Ukraine were seated, and along with the Vice President, just off to the side earlier today, the relationship between France and the United States has been longstanding, literally hundreds of years, and there it is cracking.

And there you not only have lies told by our president, corrected by the French president for clarity, not only today, but for all time.

But you've got a reordering in a small way, but nonetheless a significant way of the world order and the relationship that has existed between France and our nation.

And I think that there are actually two very important clarifications that Emmanuel Macron gives.

Not only is Europe financing 60% of the war effort against what Trump has said of how

America has been funding it.

Russia was the aggressor

in this

war.

This was not a war begun by Ukraine.

And that's the other important point again that that our current president continues to bandy about not only on social media but but in his

spoken word as well.

This notion somehow that history has to be rewritten so that we understand the war's initiation as its origin as something other than what it was, all of that being corrected by an ally of ours in the Oval Office of the White House.

As our broadcast this afternoon, we're going to trace some additional cracks in the world order involving the British Prime Minister and, yes, indeed, ultimately, relationship between our nation and Ukraine, all of that, a part of our continuing coverage here, getting to this major story that changes American history, changes world history here on The Dom Salvia Show.

This is the Dom Salvia Show.

My name's Jim Santel, sitting in for Dom Salvia this hour and next hour as your host.

Also joining me in the studio here of Civic Media is my outstanding producer, Jess, and together we are taking your questions, your comments, your insights, your perspectives on this major story.

Leading into that, the two of us are, by providing some recent history in connection with other

Much smaller, it turns out, spats between our allies and the United States, also happening in the Oval Office.

We had the visit also just days ago of Kira Starmer, who is the fairly recently elected Prime Minister of Great Britain, similarly engaging in public discussion in the media, in front of the media, for all of us to consume about this continuing issue related to

repayment of Ukraine and the mechanisms through which we provided historically and continue to provide support for the Ukrainian government.

Also, also indicating that when it comes to Great Britain, England, one of our strongest, if not the strongest, allies, yes, even after the Revolutionary War, becoming just that, also some fracturing there as well.

And then we have an awful lot of commentary by our president himself, who begins to talk about other world leaders, including a fellow named Putin.

He is, of course, the president of Russia.

And just I think we've got some tape of him, some audio of him talking about whether or not.

Putin is a dictator.

His status on the face of the planet.

Can we place some of that?

Indeed.

We have a question.

Would Trump consider Putin a

dictator?

I don't use those words lightly.

I think that we're going to see how it all works out.

Let's see what happens.

I think we have a chance of a really good settlement between various countries.

And, you know, you're talking about Europe.

And you're talking about Ukraine as part of that whole situation.

The other side has a lot of support also.

That's what we call word salad, right, Jess?

Indeed.

That's what we call non-responsive in my industry, and I suspect certainly in yours, in common language, right?

That's not responsive to the question.

Plainly, our president could not publicly state.

that Putin is a dictator, something that everyone who understands recent history not only appreciates but is not afraid to articulate to describe something as what it is.

And something that he had no problem attributing to Zelensky, someone who won an election quite popularly, in fact, much more popularly than Trump won his election here.

could not be better stated exactly and so that leads just into yet another clip that we have in which in the wake of of this commentary this general language that we have going on now in the White House about who is a dictator and who is not we know that our president also on social media other venues referred to Zelensky again plainly before he's arrived today

as a dictator, suggesting once again that the war in Ukraine somehow was the product of aggression by Ukraine and by Zelensky himself, which is not only laughable, but horrifically, again, in the category of a lie.

But we've got a reporter also asking the president, again, in a very recent news presentation, a news engagement there in the East Room of the White House,

whether or not the president, our president intended to apologize, apologize to Volodymyr Zelensky upon his arrival for describing Zelensky as a dictator.

Just do we have that tape as well?

We do.

Here's the question and then we'll go to the answer.

Wonderful.

Mr. President, tomorrow you're seeing President Zelensky to sign this deal on minerals and energy that could be hugely important.

to the United States.

Will you take the opportunity to apologize to him for calling him a dictator while praising Vladimir Putin, who is a dictator?

And the response.

I think we're going to have a very good meeting tomorrow, 11 o'clock, and I think we're going to have a very good meeting tomorrow morning.

We're going to get along really well, okay?

We have a lot of respect.

I have a lot of respect for him.

We've given them a lot of equipment and a lot of money, but they have fought very bravely, no matter how you figure.

They have really fought.

Somebody has to use that equipment, and they have been very brave in that sense.

That, yet another non-responsive answer, right Jess?

Maybe not complete word salad there because we do get some things that just finally lead into our major story of the day which should have all Americans quaking, all Americans not just scratching their heads about what happened but fearful about the world order today.

Recall again what you just heard, which is yesterday, the president of the United States of America anticipating this hastily organized visit by Volodymyr Zelensky to the United States.

He described it as anticipating a very good meeting.

We're going to get along very well.

Justin, I hear that correctly.

We're going to get along very well.

That is, in fact, what Trump asserted.

All right.

And so it appears, and Jess, you're a very, very bright.

It appears from what you have already digested that that didn't

Didn't exactly happen today, did it?

No.

No, in fact, I believe the first headlines I saw were that Trump and Vance berated.

Berated.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky.

Berated.

We've got those verbs rebuked, tussled.

Let's set this up and then we're going to be hearing some cuts from this calamitous event in the Oval Office again.

Zelensky is coming to Washington, D.C.

today.

It was meant to once again, as I've said, smoother than this rift that has developed between Donald Trump and Volodymyr Zelensky, maybe to seal this agreement that was demanded by our president, according to which Ukraine would

presumably hand over maybe billions of dollars worth of mineral rights.

Maybe to repay somehow the military aid that was provided by our country under the administration of Joe Biden.

I suspect he did an awful lot of things to say about what happened today as well.

And also approved by the Congress over the past three years since Russia, and let's say it once again to be clear, is full-fledged invasion.

in 2022 of Ukraine.

All of that, all of that, anteced to what happened.

Donald Trump seemingly ready to make nice, as he said with Volodymyr Zelensky by telling reporters on Thursday that he could quite remember that dictator comment again, he expects expressing his respect and welcoming him to the White House.

And that brings us to the door of the West Wing just hours ago with an honor guard, shaking hands politely, but without a great deal of warmth.

As we come back here, the encounter that followed that initial greeting went very, very bad.

They were going to recount that, going to play some clips of this calamity, and then do some analysis on the far end here on the Dom Salvia

show.

This is the Dom Salvia Show.

My name is Jim Santel, sitting in for Dom this afternoon, this hour, next hour as well, joined in the Radio Park Studio here of Civic Media by my outstanding producer, Jess.

And together, we're taking your calls, your questions, your comments, already receiving some terrific texts.

expressing your interests, your concerns about what's happened today in Washington, DC.

Len from Madison writing again, Trump as president has again exhibited another really foul movement in America and the world.

A

vowel

movement.

I like that, Len.

Vowel, vowel movement to America and the world.

We also have Len also.

Todd, rather, saying, think about this.

He called Zelensky a dictator, yet met with him, refused to call Putin a dictator.

And yes, indeed.

That's exactly what Jess and I have been presenting here as a predicate, a preliminary to all of this in the days

Immediately before this, we've got a text calling in, a text coming in from Kimber outrageously disgraceful conduct on the part of this administration.

And so we have Volodymyr Zelensky up to the West Wing and the Oval Office of the West Wing sitting down with the President of the United States of America earlier today.

He is in his usual dark long sleeve shirt.

He begins to explain.

the history of the war with Russia.

Again, that's for everyone's consumption, probably for the consumption of our president as well.

Notably, it went back to 2014, when Moscow first seized Crimea and occupied territory there in eastern Ukraine, and then things began to go badly.

Our vice president was also sitting there on an adjacent couch.

Indeed, even before we get to his intercession, hear the things that he said that began to set this conversation on fire.

Note that JD Vance also began to recraft the world order that we're talking about a lot this afternoon.

Recall that not too long ago, he was at the Munich Security Conference, and he delivered a speech to our European so-called allies, the 61st Security Conference.

described backsliding on freedom of speech and democracy among the European nations regarding the relationship between the United States and the European allies began to indicate that the problems lie not with our foes but internal to Europe described an ideological war.

That's beginning to happen.

There are a culture war against the United States European allies That's the way many people have begun to regard this speech again a real chasm in the relationship between our European allies in the United States all of this all of this Leading up the wrecking ball of Munich it's sometimes called but all of that leading up to our hearing once again my vice president adjust this afternoon after Volodymyr Zelensky politely and diplomatically explaining the

predicates for his coming there, explaining why it is his nation, has had its sovereignty violated by the invasion by Russia.

And that is when J.D.

Vance, our vice president, interrupted and began assailing Volodymyr Zelensky.

I think we have got that tape

as

well, Jess.

I'm talking about the kind of diplomacy that's going to end the destruction of your country.

Mr. President, Mr. President, with respect, I think it's disrespectful for you to come into the Oval Office and try to litigate this in front of the American media.

Right now you guys are going around and forcing conscripts to the front lines because you have manpower problems.

You should be thanking the President for trying to bring it into this conflict.

Have

you ever been to Ukraine that you say what problems we have?

I have actually watched and seen the stories, and I know what happens is you bring people, you bring them on a propaganda tour, Mr. President.

Do you disagree that you've had problems bringing people into your military?

And do you think that it's respectful to come to the Oval Office of the United States of America and attack the administration that is trying to prevent the destruction of your country?

A lot of questions.

Let's start from the beginning.

A lot of questions.

Let's start from the beginning.

That is the president of Ukraine, our ally, I think, to this moment, but maybe less so after this afternoon.

not only trying to explain to his counterparts here in the United States why his country is being overrun by the Russian invaders, but also the continuing need for support.

That's why he's here.

And maybe this mineral deal that he was about to sign in some way would cement, maybe not completely cement, but strengthen in some ways the tough thing that's been going on recently.

What happens, of course, after that is the accusations, again, being made by our vice president right after that, the vice president accused Mr. Zelensky of mounting a propaganda tour in the United States, and again, questions him on whether it's respectful to come to the office, the Oval Office, as you just heard, and disrespect the very...

President who has been supporting him.

Volodymyr Zelensky tried to respond to our vice-prince assertion and said that the United States could feel threatened by Russia someday.

And isn't that the truth?

Isn't that the good instruction just provided by an historian plainly?

Absolutely.

This is the lesson.

This is why these overseas matters, these challenges, these wars, these attacks upon other democracies are appropriately viewed as threats to our nation as well.

That's the point that Volodymyr Zelensky is making so clearly and so easily today, not sinking in.

Volodymyr Zelensky says, you have a nice ocean.

and don't feel now, but you will feel it in the future.

He's telling our president about international things, the way the world works, and that one, that ocean that maybe seemingly protects you, in fact, will not protect you for all time.

This is the time to stand up, he is saying, to the Russians, prevent them from taking over my country, he says, as a way of protecting not only Ukraine and Europe and all other nations where freedom reigns, but also this nation as well.

And then that triggered our president.

The president of the United States of America then sitting just to the left of Volodymyr Zelensky triggered him and cut off Volodymyr Zelensky.

And we've got the tape of that as well.

I believe we've got that and began to talk about the ways in which Zelensky was engaging with the vice president, Donald Trump saying basically, don't tell us what we're going to feel.

You're not in a good position.

I think, Jess, we've got that tape as well.

Don't tell us what we're going to feel.

We're trying to solve a problem.

Don't tell us what we're going to feel.

I'm not telling

you.

Because you're in no position to dictate that.

Remember

this.

You're in no position to dictate what we're going to feel.

We're going to feel

very good.

You will feel influenced.

We're

going

to feel very good and very strong.

You will feel

influenced.

You're right now not in a very good position.

You've allowed

yourself to be in a very bad position and it happens to be right about

the beginning of the war.

You're not in a good position.

You don't have

the cards right now.

Stunning.

Stunning exchange going on again between the leaders of two allied nations, at least until this afternoon.

Perhaps it will continue for some time.

Gambling with World War III is what our president said about what Mr. Zelinski was

saying diplomatically and in a straightforward fashion.

Along the way, our vice president jumped back in and had to say this.

He said, have you said thank you once?

The answer is yes, Mr. Vice President.

Far more

than once.

Far more than once.

He has gone to the well of the Congress and thanked the Congress for a huge amount of support.

Military financial support.

that our nation is given, also thanking other European allies for the support they have given to push Russia back.

Yes, the answer is, yes, he has thanked our nation.

He has thanked the former president.

He has thanked this president.

The answer to that question, Mr. Vice President, is yes.

And then along the way, Jess, we get this other rant by our president.

And again, it's more than word salad.

It is plainly calling up all the demons in his head that somehow were unleashed.

by virtue of this conversation with an allied leader in the Oval Office of the White House.

Do we have that?

We do.

Let me tell you, Putin went through a hell of a lot with me.

He went through a phony witch hunt, where they used him and Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia.

You ever hear of that deal?

That was a phony, that was a phony Hunter Biden, Joe Biden scam.

Hillary Clinton, shifty Adam Schiff.

It was a Democrat scam.

And he had to go through that.

And he did go through it.

We didn't end up in a war.

And he went through it.

He was accused of all that stuff.

He had nothing to do with it.

He came out of Hunter Biden's bathroom.

Hunter Biden's bathroom.

That's the level of the discourse.

The level of the diplomatic engagement by the President of the United States of America just a few hours ago.

What we know of course is that in the wake of what can only be described as a diplomatic catastrophe People in the State Department whether they are political appointees or the long-standing civil servants were there people in all branches of government that knows something about international affairs and domestic affairs are looking at this today and saying absolute calamity absolute destruction of a relationship a leader of Ukraine

coming to our nation again to maybe bring to some conclusions, some initial negotiation that would have strengthened our ties.

And in fact, we get into this, not just disagreement, but shouting match inside the White House in the Oval Office.

I think it's important to note that this was not a shouting match.

A match implies that President Linsky was participating in the shouting.

He did not.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

Many people have noted already that this was not a match at all.

This was simply bullying and shouting.

The reporting is also that the Ukrainian ambassador, who is of course there, that always happens whenever you've got a foreign leader coming to the United States.

The Ukrainian ambassador to the United States is there.

Apparently she has her head in her hands while this is going on an abject disbelief, seeing all of this destroyed.

There is no doubt that she and her staff have spent a huge amount of time, it's not just about her and the staff, but a huge amount of time putting this all together, maybe looking for a time at the end of today when there might have been some glimmer of small hope for a restoration of this breached relationship and maybe some way.

for the Ukrainians to continue to get support from the United States and this president in particular by signing a document.

There was supposed to be a press conference after this, which of course was quickly canceled, and we know what happened afterwards, and it's all over the news as well.

Volodymyr Zelensky, our ally.

quickly got back into his van, left the West Wing and took off.

After that hostile exchange in the Oval Office, President Trump issued a statement saying that he and Zelensky had a very meaningful meeting.

But that he had determined that the Ukrainian leader is, quote, not ready for peace if America is involved.

Trump said Zelensky can come back when he is ready for peace, reiterating some claims that he made during that...

Explosive meeting, words fail in describing it.

Saint Dilsonsky disrespected once again the United States of America in its cherished Oval Office, pleading his case for the country's security by pressing for more than just a ceasefire.

Yes, Mr. President, that's what the Ukrainian president was there to do, to press for peace, but also to press for peace in a way that would ensure the future of Ukrainian sovereignty.

Much was learned that could never be understood without conversation under such fire and pressure.

That's what our president said.

It's amazing what comes out through emotion.

Oh my, oh my.

All of that following this calamitous engagement, which is a very diplomatic way of saying something else completely in the Oval Office today.

We also know that as a footnote to all of this, Donald Trump then said,

Wow, this is going to make great television.

This is going to make great television.

Indeed, among the commentary that I will offer this afternoon, inviting yours as well.

And yes, we're going to go to the phones in just a moment or so.

Part of the outrage of this is that our president concludes all of this by talking about how the television images will look.

And that obviously animates a lot of his focus when it comes to the presidency itself.

We know as well, President does have a capacity for turning these kinds of things, at least for his base, and people don't understand what's going on here.

That kind of visual imagery, that fight, some of his supporters like that a lot, in fact.

all Americans should recoil in horror in seeing and understanding what happened today.

When we come back here on The Dime Salvia Show, more analysis, your calls, your comments as well here on the broadcast stations of Civic Media.

We're-

This is the Dom Salvia Show.

My name is Jim Santel, hosting in the final segment of this first hour of our broadcast.

Also joined here in Radio Park with my wonderful, fantastic producer, Jess, and together we're taking your comments, your questions, your calls, including a call from Brian, calling in from Milwaukee.

Brian, being a part of our conversation this afternoon, thank you for doing just that.

Go

ahead, Brian.

My call is always in a great show.

Um, my big thing is that just hope that those that are listening that are mega supporters, Republicans and whatnot, I hope that today is the wake up call that they need, you know, because this is just, this was the last straw.

I mean, it

should be, right?

It should be.

And I still have friends that are backing and saying, Oh, no, this is a great thing today.

I listened to previous shows like Megan Donnan.

I'm glad that she stood up to some of those callers because it's like, what are you guys thinking?

And for Trump to say to Zelensky, well, you're the one that's going to start World War III.

No, Trump, you're the one that's going to.

And this country is so divided that I'm afraid that we are going to have another civil war in this country.

I don't want to be sitting there shooting up family members or, you know, battling the states or whatever because our

how political views are so different.

And I'm afraid that's what's gonna happen.

And all these other countries like Russia and China, they want us to fall apart.

They're thinking this is great.

Absolutely.

A couple of very important things to unpack there, Brian.

One is just your final point there, which is there is an audience out there that is clapping, applauding, right, Brian?

And it is people in China, people in Russia.

We're seeing this once again as the devolution, the destruction of the world order in particular, this alliance relationship there, right?

And so a very important posture here.

And your first point, Brian, no less important.

This was an opportunity for our president to show what every president

Almost every president before him has been, which is a statesman, someone who, again, can put aside a lot, if not all, of the animus that may animate him, perhaps one day her, when it comes to relationships with foreign leaders, and say,

This is a time for unity.

We need to push back not only on the forces of evil and of autocracy that are right now, not just knocking at the Ukrainian door, they've busted through.

They've taken Crimea, they've taken a major portion of the Eastern geography of Ukraine.

This was a time for our president to show something beyond himself, beyond just his campaign rhetoric and show that he is a unifying factor.

In the wake of all of that, in the wake of the Emmanuel Macron disaster and the Keir Starmer disaster and the vice-president Vance disaster overseas, all of these other indications that the world order is coming apart and it is changing dramatically, this was an opportunity for our president to say, no, Americans, you can be assured.

Brian, that the war that you're predicting here with a small pee will not in fact happen.

Be safe, be secure.

And we're going to put together an arrangement here.

Donald Trump would call it a deal.

We're going to put together a treaty here, some arrangement pursuant to which we can ensure our future longevity both in the United States and also the security of our ally in Ukraine in Eastern Europe.

And he didn't do that, did just the opposite.

A lot of the headlines that Jess has also digested for me and for all of you this afternoon suggest wildly, appropriately, that Donald Trump threw through the president of Ukraine out of the White House.

just hours or so ago.

Brian, I appreciate very much that comment.

Also noting that in connection with the hope that you've articulated that others would finally understand the seriousness of this president.

We've got others who are weighing in on just what happened here.

Bill from Waukesha, saying Zalewski was the only adult in the room.

Indeed.

Indeed.

Indeed.

Right.

Right.

Exactly.

We've got Robert from Fond du Lac, noting that Trump is a communist pig, a draft dodging coward, grifter and con man.

But tell us what you really think.

Right.

Exactly.

Exactly.

Robert apparently coming out of his shell today.

Appropriately, I should all Americans.

Volodymyr Zelensky, Robert says, has more courage in his little finger than Trump and Vance have in their entire bodies.

Appropriate to

talk about that.

And we've got Kenneth from Stoughton also saying that the S&D, there are some who looked at this, including one of our congressmen, Direct Van Orden, claiming today, according to Kenneth, that today was a great day for America.

I'm not going to... I would

really challenge them to articulate in what way this is a great day for America, in what way this shows the deal-making of

this

president, the peacemaking ability of this president, when he literally threw the president of a sovereign nation out of the Oval Office.

and did not sign a deal that would have, in one sense, been incredibly lucrative for this country

and would

have showed the ability of Trump to negotiate a very difficult deal.

Absolutely, absolutely.

Robert from West Dallas saying this show that Vice President Vance is not a serious person.

What a great, great way to describe.

Not a serious person.

Not a serious person.

A serious person.

He's in the vice presidency, second highest office in Orlando, and he's not a serious person and also not ready for prime time.

Maybe invoking a little bit of the president's own apparently glee.

Is that what it is that this would make great television?

We've got Robert Tulso, Dana I'm sorry from the cross also saying that Trump and Vance told the world today to all of us that the US now sides with the axis of evil and that is a perfect lead-in into my final comments which are the changing of this world order.

We have seen perhaps now, today, not the complete consummation of that break from what has been the history of our nation since World War II, but close to it.

When we come back in our second hour, more about that commentary, about the change in world order that happened today in the West Wing, the Oval Office of the White House, stay with us for more discussion here on the Dom Salvia Show.

Broadcasting across the state of Wisconsin on the Civic Media Radio Network and around the world on the Civic Media app.

This is the Dom Salvia show.

And now here's your host, Dom Salvia.

This is the Dom Salvia show here on the broadcast stations of Civic Media.

My name is Jim Santel.

I'm sitting in Ferdom on this Friday, this historic Friday in our nation's history.

Went along with my terrific producer, Jess here at Radio Park.

We're talking all about the calamity.

There are not enough adjectives in the English language of destruction and dismay to accurately describe temper's flaring, voices being raised, loud rebukes in the Oval Office of the United States White House.

just this afternoon, just today, resulting in the, and not in any agreement, not in any deal, as the president would say, that would provide some monies to this country and maybe some national security to the country of Vladimir Zelensky there in Ukraine, anticipating that there might be a warming of some of the recent hostilities that did not happen, if anything, an increase in them.

Donald Trump and our Vice President castigating Zelensky for not being grateful enough for the U.S.

support in its war with Russia, sought to strong arm him into making a peace deal on whatever terms the Americans dictate, they said, with voices raised and tempers flaring, some of the reporting going on, Donald Trump threatening to abandon Ukraine altogether if Zelensky did not go along.

talking over the Ukrainian leader as we reported and played in the first hour of our broadcast, Vice President told Zelensky that it was disrespect for him to come to the Oval Office and make his case in front of the American news media and demanded that he thank Mr. Trump, which he has done before for his leadership.

Trump jumped in then, told the Ukrainian leader, you're not really in a good position right now.

You're gambling with World War Three.

Said you're either going to make a deal or we're out, Donald Trump said.

And if we're out, you'll fight it out.

And I don't think it's going to be pretty.

That's language.

That's language from the president of the United States of America today, February 20th, the last day of February of 2025, the last day of the second month of this presidency, not only a breach, a crack.

in our relationship with Ukraine, but also, also, plainly a change in the world order when I was in Iraq, very much attentive to the engagement of the State Department, yes, the Defense Department, other agencies overseas, including the USAID.

To the notion of a world order, an understanding about how things work and how security and national security, domestic and national, international, can be safeguarded by establishing alliances, preserving those, very much aware of the fact when I was in Iraq that the world order had switched, had changed recently.

With the overthrow of Saddam Hussein, I know that remains a very controversial matter here in America, but the reality is that Saddam Hussein is no longer in power there.

And regardless of what you think about Iraq, the reality is it is now an ally of ours.

It is a democratic republic, even with all of the destruction that came from the war in the wake of the overthrow of Saddam Hussein.

That was a huge shift in, yes, the world order in the Middle East when Bashar al-Azad leaves Syria.

And again, not at all clear what's going to happen there in Syria, but that's a shift in the world order that we all need to take attention to and understand the things are changing.

It's going to mean a dramatic shift in the way that we understand our own security.

And indeed today, as Jess and I have been offering to you as a thesis, as we understand what happened today, there has been a shift in the world order.

The question in the wake of these uncomfortable, stated,

charitably, relations and discussions with the leaders of France and Britain and our vice president berating, berating our European allies about the problems internal to their own nations and not the problems presented by challenges of their foes, all of this.

Prefacing, if it's not already here, a new world order in which the United States is no longer allied with the people who are in favor of democracy and republic representation and all the good things that come with freedom that we've associated in this country with 250 years of our tradition and other nations across the planet also embracing that, has the world order shifted and today have we seen in no less important a place than the Oval Office of the White House

that crack, that huge chasm today in our understanding of the world order.

We've got an awful lot of people who are appropriately weighing in on what's happened here.

We appreciate very much Jim from Apple saying after listening to Donald Trump and Vance, the fourth grade style bullying of President Zelensky, he said, I've reached the conclusion

that the vitriol is grounded in two places.

This again is Jim Appleton saying Zelensky was at a campaign event with Kamala Harris and this is payback time basically or and he refused to dig up dirt on Hunter and Joe Biden deed in that word salad.

that word salad response that just played just a few moments ago, we got an awful lot of indication that Hunter Biden is still very much on his mind.

Certainly, as is the 2024 election, we didn't play the full clip, but right before this show, Maggie Dawn played it several times, and I did link the entire exchange into Last Hours podcast, which I will do again this hour.

In that exchange, Vice President JD Vance refers to President Zelensky's having campaigned with the opposition.

That's the phrasing that he used, the opposition, to refer to the fact that President Zelensky had appeared supporting Kamala Harris.

Now, referring to both these events happening during the 2024 election cycle and calling Kamala Harris the opposition.

struck me as incredibly anti-democratic, lowercase D as in the democratic ideals of this country.

Could not state it better, right?

And everybody should be consuming not only just as commentary based upon, again, a rational commonsense understanding of what the words mean, even though with respect to our president, they're jumbled, they're unclear, they're random, and they're seemingly misleading.

Nonetheless, that's the takeaway from all of this.

Again, Bill from Waukesha, as I said before, confirming Zelensky is the only adult in the room, right?

That's exactly

what's going

on here today.

Alternate history, Cam from Appleton talks about today, and others, again, as a part of our communication here.

This is Dana from La Crosse.

Trump and Vance told the world today that the U.S.

sides with the axis of evil.

Yes, indeed.

That is the new world order that we're seeing develop here.

Robert from West Dallas.

Other world leaders should boycott meetings with Vance.

Cam from Appleton also, again, reporting that our defense secretary just ordered that our cyber command stop work on any Russian threats and prevention.

Again,

very much in the mind of the president when he speaks about Russia.

Russia, Russia.

Bill from Waukesha.

Again, this is a very sad day for America and a great day for Russia.

And Claire also saying it's almost as if Donald Trump wants World War III, the gleeful bully.

The man is sick, she says, right?

And beyond that, this is, this is Catherine from Madison.

The abuse of Zelensky today has the look of a stage reality TV episode to make Trump look powerful and demean Zelensky.

He did in the end, as we commented earlier himself comment about the way in which this will make great television.

Note that that has another aspect to it as well.

And that is we recall that Zelensky

very bright, very intelligent.

Before he became the president of Ukraine was what?

He was a comedian, very intellectually cutting comedy there in Ukraine about government and about the presidency that preceded him.

He's a bright guy.

And he also, like Donald Trump, like Donald Trump appreciates and values public imagery.

Let us see.

Let us see.

how this cuts.

It may well be that Vladimir Zelinsky finds a way to turn this kind of wild in exchange, this vitriol, even to his advantage.

I see no reason why it won't.

And here's why.

I have never once seen a bully actually look powerful.

Every time I have seen a bully, I have seen a weak, weak.

person, someone who is unable to accomplish their goals through the means of communication, through the means of changing people's minds, through reason, through logic, through good means.

This is someone who only knows how to take down.

This is someone who has brought a leader of a sovereign country into the most sacred room of this country and bullied him into submission.

And kicked him out

and kicked him out without making a deal

Right

without making a deal

right and our president Is apparently proud of that today and maybe this does appeal it should not appeal as our previous colors have indicated should not appeal to anybody as it just as words Are causing for me it should make the hair in the back of your neck stand up

every single American, regardless of your political affiliation, your views about policy and practice in our country should look at this with abject horror, the creation, the evolution of a new world order, and the destruction of the safety and security that kept us safe and secure for all of these years.

We've got more callers.

We appreciate that so very much.

Your involvement in this important discussion today, understanding that this is going into the history books.

And one day,

As Jess has said, as I have said, as you have said as well, we may look back on this very day, this six minute and 50 second event, which again, as Jess has so professionally done, tagged and included in our podcast here on the Dom Salvia Show, accessible here for you to consume whenever you care to go back to it.

This may well be the kind of thing that the students of history are taught, not just in the next five or 10 years, but down the road as well as the change on the faith.

of this planet.

We do have other callers calling in.

Dick from Madison, I appreciate you being a part of our discussion this afternoon.

My apologies, who are you calling for?

Yes, we're going to take Dick right now.

Yep.

All right, welcome to the air, Dick.

And Dick, are you with us?

Yep, I think you're there.

Dick from Madison, can you hear us?

Yes, I

can.

There you

are.

Very good.

Dick, glad to

have you with us.

And I didn't like this at the time when Ronald Reagan was doing the radio check.

And he goes, I've just signed legislation along Russia and the bombing starts tomorrow.

It was a hot mic.

It was a hot mic, right?

I didn't know he was that's what he said.

And I thought it was just stupid as hell.

Just crazy.

But I guess my point is, can you imagine what he's thinking now?

or what he would think if he were alive.

And I was no fan of Reagan.

I vote Democrat, but he had this right.

They were the excess of...

evil right that's exactly that's Ronald Reagan's language and he would if he was alive today he would be horrified by all of this we're gonna take more callers as the Dom Salvia show continues appreciate dick your comment taking more callers right after this coming break on this major historical story that we're covering here on the Dom Salvia show stay with us

This is the Dom Salvia show.

My name is Jim Santel, sitting in for Dom, and this is the second hour of our broadcast this afternoon, joined in the studios by my partner and my colleague, Jessen.

Together we're taking your phone calls, comments, appreciate all of that tremendously.

Noting as well as...

as Dom and Jess have said in the past, have posed this rhetorical question, but it's more than rhetorical, right, Jess?

The question often asked by Dom on this very show, perhaps a weekly, weekly event for you and Dom is asking and answering, maybe in part, the question if Donald Trump was a Russian asset, what more would he do?

And the answer is not a whole lot.

This awfully sounds an awful lot like someone who is indeed a Russian asset as Donald Trump, as Dom often says, describing Donald Trump.

And we've perhaps got more fuel for that particular theory today that Donald Trump is in creating this new world order, bending it toward Russia.

bending it toward a dictatorship, a nation that is not a place of freedom, bending it toward a nation that would like nothing more than our own destruction.

You wonder again, what the motivation for Donald Trump is today to throw the president of Ukraine out of the White House and send him packing back to Kyiv.

We've got lots of callers calling in, including Pat from Milwaukee.

Appreciate your comment, which I suspect is very much along those lines of what Dom and Jess often say.

Go ahead, Pat.

Jim, good to hear.

Yes, hello, Jim.

It's good to hear you.

And just a few days ago, Dom had Matt Flynn on again, your colleague.

Yes.

And Matt had.

has been emphasizing for years that Trump is a KGB asset.

I think today's demonstration was sort of an indication that Trump's marching orders from Moscow were to get basically Zalitsky to virtually surrender.

So he doesn't surrender to Putin.

He keeps Putin from having that.

in dignity or being blamed for that, but he literally surrenders to Trump in a sense by acquiescence.

And it was painful to watch.

It was nauseating to see what was happening.

And we're in a world of hurt if this continues.

I am shocked that things aren't changing and moving in Washington as we speak.

Absolutely.

And Pat, appreciate again the observation, which I believe every American should share.

Exactly as you have articulated it, this is a time for great concern about our own national security.

Yes, indeed, the security of the Ukrainian people as well.

And one wonders aloud, what is the motivation for our president to do this?

What is going on here?

And the answers are not pretty.

The answers are not good and students and professors of international insight much brighter than I May in fact provide us with some answers one day as they rewrite the history But indeed this is history right now in the making and it's not a favorable arc of history Pat Thanks so much for your good comment and your observation here on our afternoon broadcast

Oli calling in also focusing on the history of what happened today here.

Oli, thanks for joining me.

Well, I think that this was a setup for Zilinski.

I think this was intended all along.

And they talk about the shot heard around the world.

Well, this will be the attack heard around the world.

Every country will see this and understand that

Trump and Vance can never be trusted again.

Unfortunately for our world.

And also I want to point out that Lindsey Graham was on TV today and said he would never be prouder.

It's humiliating that he is kissing Trump's rump.

He's not kissing his ring or his feet.

Let's put it.

would write where it belongs.

He's kissing his rump.

It is stunning, again, to see from Capitol Hill, people like Lindsey Graham, again, making those kinds of comments.

And Ali, I appreciate you're calling that to our attention, even as we all recoil in the basic event that we witness today, the language, but the response by...

Republicans in this case, but again by statesmen.

People are representing us in the United States Congress.

People that a few short years ago, not that long ago, at least in my memory, would have been horrified, horrified by this kind of thing, by any American president turning us back on our ally and possibly, as you and other callers have said, opening the door to a full-scale invasion, a takeover by this Russian president.

Can you imagine?

If President Biden had invited President Zelensky into the Oval Office to negotiate terms of a deal in which our country would support theirs and return for access to rare earth minerals, valuable natural resources, and not only did Biden shout down a democratically elected president, but kicked him out of the White House without signing a deal, without signing a deal.

What alternative universe are we living today when you make that very good comparison to what could have happened in the past and the predictable reaction to that kind of outrageous behavior by a president if the party affiliations had been otherwise?

And that's a part of the tragedy.

Profound challenge that we face today in America that even on something that's fundamental the right of a sovereign nation to exist It's been our ally where they have if they do in fact have elections and that people are heard and that we've got Anyone of any party coming forward and saying yeah, that's that's okay if indeed we give up our defense of that nation and we serve up

not just the president, but the nation itself to someone who is a dictator, who is not anywhere near in our allied world order, just the opposite.

That's the great concern that Jess articulates as do many of our callers.

I appreciate all of that.

As the Dom Salvia Show continues, we'll continue taking your comments, your questions, your articulation of outrage about history in America today, February 28th, 2025, here on the Dom Salvia Show.

So f-

This is Dom Salvia Show.

My name is Jim Santel, sitting in for Dom today on this historic day in American history when our American president threw the Ukrainian president out of the White House, terminating the vestiges of any

diplomatic relationship, probably not just between them, but between our nations as well.

We'll talk more about that, taking your calls, your comments as well on this historic day.

And a pause for just a couple of program notes as well.

I appreciate very much Tom from Jackson sending in a message about what's going on today, this week from the Supreme Court.

And indeed, Tom, taking up on your invitation.

We'll be spending a lot of time.

on our Saturday and Sunday broadcast, that is Amicus Allora View, which I'm also hosting this weekend, talking, yes, about the Supreme Court.

It has been busy, Tom, as you know well.

We'll talk about the oral arguments taking place just this past week and things that they likely will decide coming up in just a few months.

Thanks, Tom, so much for that interest and that focus as well.

And then the more immediate program note is, as always,

Jess and I, consistent with Dom's tradition, Jess's tradition, are gonna spend the last segment of this hour doing something that we call, tell me something good.

And so if you two can participate in this- Goodness,

please tell us something

good.

Please tell us something good, right, Jess?

I've got something, Jess has got something, and you too, you too, if you call in, you can offer a perspective on what's going on today, but also give us, tell us something good going on.

in your life, in the world, the state of Wisconsin, as we finish out this broadcast later in this half hour.

But before we do that, lots of good callers, lots of good insights, perspective and questions coming up.

Let's begin with Ed.

Ed, you've been focused on all of this today.

What's your comment, your question, your inquiry?

Glad to have you with us.

Well, thanks for listening to me.

I'm just calling that, you know, just be expressed my sorrow to know that this country is so lacking in, according to the words of our president in raw earth.

He said, we do not have raw earth.

And, you know, I live in the countryside.

I look at my plowed up fields and I'm thinking, boy.

Nobody should come here and prospect for rare metals, rare earth metals.

Maybe we do have them here, but we don't.

That was sad to hear right

and that's and that's the

world press right that we do not have raw earth

and that's our president speaking and people do listen to the president regardless of who occupies the White House right there's always been a sense of authority it goes back again to James Madison running he contemplated that the president would be someone to whom we can look for information and guidance and and frankly support and solace in tough times that is not this presidency

no

i

you know ideally our president should

be it not only our chief diplomat to the rest of the world, but our chief ambassador from the people of power to the people, the person who can communicate the message of America.

Exactly, right?

And not only do we not get just what you just described so well, we get just the opposite and we get lies, right?

The number of times that the president

Every day, every day says things out loud that are simply demonstrably, not just misrepresentations, not just fudging on the facts, but they're simply lies.

They're simply deception for his own purposes.

Ed, appreciate very much your observations as well.

Appreciate also all of our callers, including Wisco Paul.

Wisco Paul, you're here with us this afternoon.

Appreciate your comment or your perspective along the way as well.

Well, thanks for taking my calls.

It's a hard day.

It is a hard day.

But I'll give you two names that still make me mad, and it's Comey and Garland.

You know, they didn't do the job, but I had so much hope starting today that they would reach some deal.

But I really don't think they had any intention of reaching a deal.

I think Zelensky was set up, and this was the plan all along.

And that's one of the reasons there's a big letdown for me because I thought we had a chance to do something

good.

Something good, right?

Right?

And something that would be good for all of us, not just the Ukrainians, but certainly the Ukrainians at the top of this, something good for the entire international community.

We had this opportunity here and although it might be somewhat unknown to us exactly what the nature of this deal was going to be it involved minerals of some kind as we've been commenting about all afternoon but some understanding that would somehow maybe one day bring some peace there and the stopping the killing and stopping the war but also on terms that do not do not give Putin what he wants which is a takeover of the Ukrainian nation

which is the critical aspect of this not only

that Trump is intent on strip mining Ukraine of its rare earth minerals, not its raw earth minerals, as Trump said several times and as our caller Ed pointed out.

Ukraine surrendering to Russia, giving up all of the land and all of the people.

the thousands of Ukrainian citizens who have been not only forcibly taken into Russia, but who have been kidnapped into Russia.

Undeniably, a tremendous number of war crimes, some of which we know about, many of which we do not, and the victims of that war...

prosecuted by this despot coming out of Moscow, the profundity, the horror of that cannot be overstated.

And today, our president seemingly throws his lot in with that very authoritarian government and throws out the man who is, yes, coming here to seek peace in some way that can preserve his nation, his people, and not to happen.

Not to happen, as Paul has just indicated.

Joe, Joe from Madison.

Let's let's hear from you also appreciate your participation in our program this afternoon.

Great show and I really appreciate all the information and background.

I think it's really helpful to the audience and great comments from people that were also.

really informative and I just can't thank everyone enough in a bad way, but still wonderful.

My true sense is about this, which is I think that Zelensky was set up.

It was the fact that Vance was in that office.

There was no reason for him to be there or for Marco Rubio to be there in what was going to be taking place.

Otherwise there would be diplomats equal to that coming from the Ukrainian side and there weren't.

And I think that the other thing that was happening there was Zelensky knew that

he was going to be set up and he has prepared.

And the preparation that he has to make is to know that he was going to get a rotten deal from Trump and be belittled and betrayed by him.

But I think what's been interesting is the immediate response in Europe.

There have been over 17 countries in Europe that have immediately put forth messages of we stand with Ukraine.

And the most important one to me is one that speaks to the comments that you had earlier in the show where you said, the world is changing.

And the comment would be that by the police, a policy chief for the European Union who said, and this is a quote, the free world needs a new leader.

Now notice

that person did not yet.

They didn't say the EU.

They said the free world.

I found that to be fascinating.

Absolutely.

They're

giving up on us, people.

They're giving

up on us.

They cannot trust us.

We betray.

We're on Putin's side.

So a new game, it's a new role of the dice on the board.

And the free world needs a new leader is a very evocative way of saying, okay, we're wiping our hands and moving on.

And as another caller said earlier, I do think that that's going to leave us in a world of her.

That's

not a good place to

be.

Absolutely.

I appreciate how much, once again, that

Sage observation there, it is a new world order and we may find ourselves in a part of that world order that is not only uncomfortable but downright destructive to our nation one day.

That's the great fear.

That's the great concern coming out of what, again, at least superficially sounds like a spat, but it's so much more than that.

It is so much more than that.

And to the good comments who are already made about the motivations for this and JD Vance being there,

Take a look at what Jess has posted on all of the broadcast stations here of Civic Media.

Take a look whether it's on television, but listen to it here on radio.

And you'll get a sense that J.D.

Vance's inter-session into this conversation does seem a bit planned.

And to that extent, there may be something to that theory about setups, and we don't know.

Historians will find out one day, one day, and this will be written about, but it certainly does strike an awful lot of people who are both inside and outside of what was going on there, that there was something very, very nefarious going on here, and indeed, resulting in this catastrophic event in American history.

Kurt, calling in from Madison, also appreciate your comments about our president and what happened today.

Yeah, you know, I've sadly have had to watch from for a very long time.

This is the individual who has got the intellect of a 5th grader.

He cannot speak in complete sentences.

That's why he uses his hand so often.

If you simply go back as painful as it is and watch how he behaved in speaking with Zelensky,

He never once made a complete sentence that made any sense.

Although other than him saying, oh, you're making a big mistake.

I'm talking about the initial communication.

Now, I do see, I'm in agreement with Joe.

I know Zelinsky, he's a smart dude.

He knew he was walking into a trap, but he's hands are tied.

He had to go in and deal with these idiots.

But I see a silver lining to this.

I think that,

for the world seeing what went down and how it went down and with someone who is now the president of the United States.

I'm not saying that this is the final catalyst that will start tipping things the other direction, but I think it will start changing things quite dramatically.

And that's starting with the European nations and the United Nations.

I think

The United States is about to learn a very, very terrible lesson, what it's like to be, well,

a bad person.

Right.

And either on our own or allied with some people who do not have our best interests in mind, right?

The allies that we may be coming shouldering up to and embracing right now do not have our interests.

at heart they do not and Kurt could not agree more with all of that again historians will be looking at this and telling us more about it but to the extent that again this this particular story as horrific as it is

does have the attractiveness of having an oral aspect to it.

You can listen to their words.

You can listen to this fight.

And yes, indeed, if you pull it up and watch it visually, your good point about people around the world being able to access this, to hear it, to consume it, and to see our president do what he did today, there's clarity to it.

I know that all the nations on the face of this planet do look to us and they do understand a whole lot more about what's going on domestically in our nation than we perhaps understand about their nations.

We are the focus of a lot of attention overseas.

Even so, all of this activity in connection with our budget and cuts in the Justice Department, all the things that we've talked about with such great precision here, they're hugely important, no attempt whatsoever to minimize this.

significance of any of them.

They do not have this visual horror that we saw today.

You do see people, yes, with no jobs, you do see these horrific things happening because we're no longer supporting our nations, our allies overseas, and people are quite literally dying in America and overseas as a result of that and the policies of this administration.

Today, we've got an illustration.

both orally and visually for all America to see that defines who we are, that defines who this president is, and in case anyone around the globe has not been paying attention or simply regards this as the latest American presidency.

Understand now that this is a whole lot more than that.

And I think your point cannot be overstated.

We have sent a message to the world.

This is who we are.

This is how we define ourselves.

And when we come back a couple more callers and we are in fact going to go into our regular segment.

Tell me something good here.

On the broadcast stations of Civic Media and the Dom Salvia show, stay with us.

And we will get to all of your calls.

However, those of you who have called in and are still on the lines, when we answer your call, you may absolutely tell us what is burning on your mind.

But first, you got to tell us something good.

There is the rule.

Very good.

Thanks,

Jess.

This is the Dom Salvia Show.

The final segment of our day, my name is Jim Santel, joined in the studio by terrific Jess, who has been providing tremendously professional production values to our program all day, in addition to outstanding commentary on the big news of the day.

Having to do with this event that happened today in the Oval Office of the White House and...

Probably the destruction of any remaining relationship between our president and the Ukrainian president that

arguably could have led to some form of peace in Ukraine.

History will be written in the days and weeks and months and years ahead plainly, but today a day as virtually all, if not all of our callers and folks commenting on the drop line have said a day to be sad and scared and concerned about the future.

One of those commentators is Steve from Milwaukee.

An interesting linguistic

Item that Steve tells me about he makes reference to a thing.

I may I'm hoping to pronounce this correctly as it's called like she'll tongue It's a German pronunciation a German word meaning synchronization and Steve says the Germans have a word for what's going on today It's meaning synchronization bringing into line the process of Nazification by which Adolf Hitler the leader of the Nazi Party in Germany established a system of a totalitarian control over his nation Steve

Thank you for that linguistic and historical reference as well.

And we are now entering into that final portion of our broadcast where we're continuing to take calls, but also soliciting from you the news that you have about something that's good.

And that includes you, Jane, calling in from Eau Claire.

Appreciate your comment, your question, and then tell us something good about the world in which you live.

and good about the state that I live in.

And we have civic media and you wonderful people there, um, shedding light on what's going on and giving us an opportunity to express ourselves, which is really important because we're all in this together.

And I'm looking forward to nine a.m.

tomorrow because that's a great day.

And it always gives me something to look forward on Saturday morning, James.

Gene, thank you so very much for that.

Yes.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Go ahead.

Go ahead.

Everybody tune in.

You'll love it.

Okay.

Now, um, today we saw a very abusive, authoritarian, nasty, self-centered, hateful person that everything he does is he attacks it in that manner.

And I was sickened when I saw what happened to that man.

and it broke my heart.

But it also reminded me that this man here, who did this in front of the world, doesn't care about one person except himself, and he kept bringing it up all the time, stuff that happened to him.

remind people we are in this together and we will get through this but we have to fight and have our voices heard call your representatives.

It's important because a lot of times they don't hear and they think that all the things cuts they're making and all these things that they're doing I don't know if they think it doesn't impact or maybe we can't do anything about it but we can because we got a really bad bad man and anybody that supports it in that Congress

They're just as bad as he is.

You can judge a person by the company that they keep and admire.

So thank you very much and have a good weekend.

Bye.

Thank you, Jeannie.

Thank you so much for that profundity in observation here.

Words for all of us to consume.

Telling us something good along the way about broadcasts here on civic media including my own which is tomorrow morning amicus a lot of you taking up as Tom has encouraged an awful lot of other things going on in Washington DC and around our nation including those lawsuits and other matters

But turning now to my friend, my partner, my producer, Jess.

Tell us something good, Jess, that we can focus on as we begin to conclude our program.

I will tell you something good in just one moment.

Well, actually, I'm telling you something good right now.

Matt from Middleton texts in something good.

People are waking up.

And there's always ice cream.

Two good things, right?

Waking up and

getting ice cream.

Not quite ice cream, but custard.

I believe on my way home, I'm going to stop at

Culver.

Abs.

A third good thing, not only the notion of

custard, but

also getting custard,

right?

Here is something good.

The weather is warming up, and there is a very strong wind out today, but I happen to love that.

go a little in an inner direction.

I used to have very long hair.

And about a year ago, I decided to just chop it.

And I now keep my hair just about at my ears.

And I love the feeling of the wind just blowing through my hair.

So that was something that I was able to experience today that I'm looking forward to experiencing this weekend on some planned walks.

That is my something good getting out into nature.

could not be better stated anticipating again the coming spring the time when we can be outside with greater frequency enjoying this great state this great land which is still a great land lots of challenges as our callers and as jessus said as we go forward

in wrestling with and addressing a president who does not regrettably have the best interests of our nation in mind.

But here's my good item.

It's small, but it's significant.

Even though it comes with the hands of Donald Trump and a fellow named Elon Musk, the reality is that I think of the Merit Systems Protection Board, which is an agency of the federal government just a day or so ago reinstated.

reinstated six federal workers who were temporarily thrown out of their jobs and a probationary status relatively new in their positions.

Now they've got jobs again.

That's good news.

That's good news.

Perhaps presaging more good news down the road.

Delighted that all of you have joined me and Jess this afternoon for this discussion of history in America.

Plainly we continue to address this and other issues related to it here on all the broadcast stations of civic media.

Have a good Friday.

Have a good weekend, everybody.

Take care.

Broadcasting across the state of Wisconsin on the Civic Media Radio Network and around the world on the Civic Media app. This is the Dom Salvia show. And now here's your host, Dom Salvia. And welcome to the Dom Salvia show. Thank you for tuning in and listening. You could be a big part 855-752-484-2855-75CIVIC. Got lots to get to this hour, but I know we have some

kind of lingering conversation with regards to choice slash voucher slash charter. Call it what you want. Schools here in the state of Wisconsin, a half a billion dollars going towards that effort. We do have the election coming up April 1st for a new DPI secretary, right? Dr. Jill Underly right now is the superintendent. She'll be on the ballot against the what the person who makes money.

Consulting to the voucher schools. Indeed. Oh, there's money in government money. Weird how that works out. So strange. 8-5-5-7-5-2-4-8-4-2. Mark, I see you there. But I do want to throw this one out there. Because I don't know. It's just like the radio guy just put this one in my lap.

Cause this was not a topic. I got a whole page of notes here. We put together a full show. Dom comes rolling in and goes, Hey, I heard Maggie talking about vouchers. We should hit on that. I get going on it, man. It's a, it's a trigger point for me. Obviously. Just a little bit. Um, a little bit on this. I won't take your calls. And I promise we'll move on. We got a doge updates. We got who was funding, who was funding bread shimmels.

election efforts. I mean, who is Susan Crawford really? Who is she? Well, is Susan M or Susan B Crawford? Who knows?

a little baseball on that, but we'll just say the Cubs. So we'll put that one on the back burner as well. Some of the court cases going against Donald Trump and doge and more as well. We'll get to it all. We promise eight, five, five, seven, five, two, four, eight, four, two, but to put a, put a bowl on the, the education conversation for now, for now, for this very moment from the raw story, Republican state senator in Oklahoma, fruitlessly raged as his colleagues passed a bill

passed a bill to outlaw corporal punishment of disabled students in schools. Can you read that again for me? A Republican raged as his colleagues passed a bill to outlaw corporal punishment of disabled students in schools. Yeah, that's true. That's what it says. Raged because his colleagues passed a bill outlawing, making it illegal to corporally punish, to

hit to beat to beat Disabled sit. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah, right. All right. There's more to it. Oh goody. But wait, there's more. Okay. SB 364 introduced earlier this month by fellow Republican Senator David Raider revives a long controversial issue that it has been frequently debated in the state legislature.

As the bill was debated, Senator Shane Jett, one of the most outspoken opponents of the bill, told Raider that here's his grievance. The Bible sanctions corporal punishment and demanded to know how his legislation conforms with Scripture. The Bible sanctions corporal punishment and demanded to know how his legislation conforms with Scripture.

I mean, does the Bible say some all sorts of things that probably are, I think are illegal. Like if God tells you actually a commandment in Torah that says that not only can you, but you must must stone a rebellious child must stone. So hit them with rocks until they die. That's all right. Now can you use this sing rock, rig lock over and over or do you have to like throw it?

I'm not sure. See, I think there's a legit, like a, there's a rule of stone. You got to dig a hole. They got to put them in it. And I got like throw stuff out of my, I don't, I'm not up on my stoning. I mean, these days it means something different for me. It's like I'm going to Illinois or Detroit or something. But no, no, this, this is literally Republican Senator, St. Shane, Jett. Hey man, the Bible sanctions, corporal punishment. How does this legislation conform with scripture?

Raider replied by quoting the Bible himself, leading to a lengthy religious argument on the floor of the Senate, according to the Oklahoma political observer Tyler Talley. Not all discipline needs to be one way, Raider said. Special needs students need special discipline. This says it won't be physical. But Jett, again, this is the...

Hard, hard, hard, ready, who has repeatedly made the argument in the past, whenever the subject has come up for debate, wasn't convinced. He continued to call the bill a violation of scripture, accused it of singling out schools that allowed parental consent for corporal punishment and contained the measure and complained. The measure was Socialist. Socialist! If you can't- Fellas, is it socialist to not subscribe to physical abuse?

Apparently it is God wants physical abuse according to Yeah, God also doesn't want you to mix your fabrics Lennons and wolves and don't even get me going on the shrimp Enjoy the shrimp cocktail tasty tasty little sea bugs tasty bugs Let's see what else here a little bit more in the end Jets opposition was pushed aside and the bill passed the bill outlawing Corporal punishment of special needs children

past 31 to 16. He's 16. Damn. Jet has previously attracted attention for other peculiar policy positions. He endorsed far right state superintendent, Ryan Walters plan to put Trump indoors. God bless a merit USA Bibles in the classroom and introduced legislation this year that would deregulate the production and sale of donkey milk without clarifying why he considered this necessary.

Donkey milk Oklahoma, yo, what's happening down there? Okay, so I mean, but okay, so here here's and this this is what

a religious argument on the debate on what's in scripture and what that means. And to my position, it could mean whatever the hell you want it to me, because it's all about interpretation, right? Two people can read the same fricking thing and come out with their own religious belief to justify whatever act they want to take. You know what, Tom?

I taught my seventh graders that this past Sunday. You should go to Oklahoma. I don't know. You might get stoned talking down there. Especially as a little lady. That's right, ladies. You should smile more, Jess. That's the education update here in this country. Come on, the Bible says you can do it. Why are we not doing it?

That's a justification. That's the justification. And this is why we don't want religion in the classroom. Or as a counter, let's have lots and lots and lots of religion in the classroom taught in an academic manner. In the fact that there is great diversity of belief and experience in this world. And that is fantastic. There are many different ways that people have found of making just the tiniest bit of sense in a crazy, crazy world.

And let's not teach it in the form of, this is how you become a practitioner. And we want you to become a practitioner of this very specific tradition. And if you don't, the eternal hellfire and damnation for you. Right. Now go have your milk and sleep on your little mat for nap time. Come on, man. And I appreciate that from a cultural perspective. Sure, I get that. But my problem with that is where, what's the limiting factor? You know, because it,

Can it be taught as mythology? I mean, I remember taking like those kinds of classes. I don't have a problem with that at all. Right. So if you're going to lump it all in with

that kind of thing. And as world beliefs, as worldly, certainly. And those are, you know, culturally, people can and should be away a well rounded individual should at least know that those things are out there. I'm okay with that. Again, it depends on the context. If you're talking about world culture, you're talking about history, those kinds of things. Sure. If you're talking about a matter, a practice of belief, a belief structure that that

they are going to try to get you to conform to, then that's certainly a different, a different ask. Yes. Eight, five, five, seven, five, two, four, eight, four, two, eight, five, five, seven, five, civic. There will be no corporal punishment on this show. Unless he asked nicely eight, five, five, seven, five, seven, a real quick before we get to the colors. This reminded me of a time when I was young.

And it wasn't for me specifically, although I had, you know, you know, I was always kind of a sass and that'll happen. Uh, but, you know, and I kind of got away with a lot of it. So like, you know, it didn't discourage the behavior, but I was a young used to three.

And I recall as a child, so I was five years behind my sister, who was the first obviously to go attend the private school at Xavier. And at that time there were, there were nuns, there were brothers, there were, you know, obviously priests. And they had, they literally had like a dean of discipline. This was a role that somebody had. This was one, you know, keeping all the kids in line. Well,

apparently at one point and you know, again, I was a child and this is a long time ago and I'm going off a memory here. My sister, who, who was also a little like me as well. My brother, I don't know where he came from, but my sister and I were the hell raisers. My brother, much, much less so, although he did it in his own way. She got into trouble when she was at school and the Dean of discipline smacked her across the face. Oh, damn. Oh yeah. Dad got wind.

did not like that. He, you know, we're 15 miles away from school. He was there in like six minutes. Yeah. Uh, and apparently there were conversations and apologies and that never happened again. Um, and I've always had the attitude, you know, my kids can be, if they're sass, that's fine. You know, discipline them, put them in a corner to give them the time out, you know, that kind of thing. Don't ever lay hands on my kid.

Don't lay hands on anybody. Don't lay hands on me. Don't lay hands. That's not okay. I'll give a damn what the circumstances is and what they said, what they do. If, if, if, if for some reason my child attacks you and you defend yourself, I, I can understand that perhaps. I mean, we all got the right to defend ourselves, but as a matter of discipline in an academic setting to think that in some way shape or form that hitting my kid would ever be okay. That's just not the world that I live in.

And there would be some serious repercussions, as I sure there were. And to my understanding, nothing got physical when my father took exception to my sister getting literally slapped across the face at school. Now, your sister, after that, did she develop any sort of deep affection for that school? Did she, you know, come around and go, hey, you know what?

This really is the path for me. This is what I want. To some degree, absolutely. I think she did. I think she enjoyed the experience. I enjoyed the experience. And by the time I got there, that position was eliminated. There was no longer a dean of discipline. And most of the brothers were on there. Just a few nuns left. You know, it was a little bit more, you know, teacher and academic-y versus religion. Although obviously there were religion classes. So that did not, to my interpretation and understanding, really impact how she viewed the rest of her school career, let's call it.

Um, but that was not acceptable. And she certainly didn't appreciate that. And my family certainly didn't appreciate that. And so when you folks down in Oklahoma think that that's okay and that you think not only is corporal punishment okay, but corporal punishment with special needs, children is okay. Wow. Maybe you should read that Bible you have eight, five, five, seven, five, two, four, eight, four, two. I thought there was something about love and forgiveness in there.

I'm self your show eight five five seven five two four eight four two eight five five seven five So we're gonna get to the lines Texters and youtubers guys are going nuts out there man

appreciate the passion. Let's put it that way. We love the engagement. Lee, he points out he's from the Grove down. We grew up in the same time, but I went to Appleton public school and I remember my second grade teacher handcuffing my quote unquote out of control classmate to his desk. I don't know that. That's so I don't think that's okay. That's okay. Right. Can't do that. Right.

Can't do that? No. Okay. I just want to make sure that's not okay. We're not going to do that. We're not going to do that. You know, what about, you know, the ruler across the hand, right? No. If you're right with your left hand. Right. Oh, I can't do that. Swack with the ruler. There is not a shred of evidence that beating someone.

will lead to genuine improved behavior. You know the old saying, Jess, the beatings won't stop until morale improves. It's the all time motivation. Well, think about this format, this world with this again, this kind of goes back to what is the point, right?

life, liberty in the pursuit of happiness. What is, what is liberty? If you can be assaulted at will, because some ancient book says it's okay to do so, or because perhaps a teacher thinks it's okay to do so, or a cop thinks it's okay to do so. You know what I'm saying? Those are the things that go against your liberty. Right. If you're into being smacked around a little bit, that's fine. Ask someone to do it. You're right. I mean,

consent, consent, not yourself. Have fun. Go after it, man. Be your best you with a child with a child. Yeah, beat the children, beat the children of special needs children, because, you know, special needs children, these special needs discipline, which apparently this guy wants it to be corporal punishment. You think special needs child is going to hell? Hell, even a normal child, let a non special needs child is going to comprehend

Hey, you did something so now you're gonna get beat. What's the lesson there? We're gonna teach lesson there is if you don't do what someone wants You will be hurt

you will be physically assaulted. And therefore, why if that's the case then, if someone doesn't do what I want, then I do the same. I can assault them. Right, that is the lesson. That's the lesson. And that's where we're getting away from. Listen, the history of the world, right, is written by the wealthy and the powerful and the oppression of the minorities and the minorities being whatever it means. And as the atheist, we talk about religion sometimes on the show.

The majority religion often subjugates the minority religion. Indeed. You know, happens all the time. Even historically speaking, happens now. So when you're the minority in that, and it doesn't matter if you're a belief, if you're a minority belief, you just think the majority belief gives a damn. They don't, not historically speaking. They certainly don't. If you're an atheist, if you're one like me, man, not so long ago, you'd be murdered. The church would kill you.

Well, you're a filthy heathen. Wow. Thank you very much. I took a shower today. I'm not totally filthy. I do get a little sweaty and you know, my forehead greases up a bit when I get excited on this show. Yeah. Yeah. Filthy heathen and what doesn't does not negate my right to exist on this earth. I didn't ask straight. I didn't ask to be here. I don't know where I'm going when I'm dead.

So in the ground, in the ground, as far as I'm going to go right back where it came from, I don't know. But I do know at 53 years old, it got a few miles on me that nobody else has a better beat on it than I do. Certainly for me. No, don't tell me, you know, for me, you don't know for yourself because I've been around. I read the books. I don't got the miles. You know, you got you got some insight. Don't give me that. And don't bring that trash to the classroom. Don't bring that trash to government.

That's not how it's supposed to be. You got you at your faith. You got your belief. Knock yourself out. How much of that faith and belief goes against the pursuit of life, the life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. If that's, if you have a belief in that, well, and how, how can you call yourself patriotic American? Kind of goes against that, doesn't it? 8-5-5-7-5-2-4-8-4-2. Let's get some of the callers, Andy, from Watertown. You are up. Welcome, Andy. What do you got for us? Geez, we're getting a little bit of an inside intel.

just like to do. Hey, no, no judge here. No judgment. This is a safe place. This whole thing is, is a bit traumatic when I think of what I put my son through by thinking I was doing a good thing by sending him to a community Lutheran school, which ended up, I mean, like he was bullied.

to begin with. I mean, not an easy child, but they didn't know. And it's like, well, that's what all the kids do to each other. When I approached about bullying, I was like, okay, I like to make the comparison of, I guess Democrats think people are smarter than they are. And maybe Jesus thought we were smarter than we are. A lot of stuff in the Bible expects us to be smarter than we are. Like the eye of the needle is not a solely needle.

And also, um, she, I mean, if you didn't mention, I know if he mentioned why the, where the Bible says he can beat your kids, but if he's using the rod, yes. Uh, spare the rise, spoil the child, something like that. Yeah. They were, they were shepherds. They were shepherds. They didn't use the rod to beat the sheep. They used the rod to guide them.

Well, guide him to do what we tell him to do. Annie. Otherwise he'd get an ass beating. Thank you. That is exactly the point. She wasn't making down. Okay. Okay. To guide them, not to beat them, not to do that. Right. There's a representative from the great state of Wisconsin. His name is she she sort well. He is up in the Green Bay area.

And I remember this cat because when we were down, you know, protesting during COVID, putting up the Christmas tree right next to the Republicans, they came over and stole our garland and got in trouble, got a ticket mailed to us. And anyway, he was, I got in a little.

conversation with them. Hey, you guys are down here don't COVID singing your songs. And what do you, what do you give them a dose? Like, what'd you do last week? Give me five bull points. And it came out in the news that he had apparently disciplined his children and had the similar assembly got the news and some charges were apparently never dropped or whatever the case. Well, there was, there was a news situation with that. And that was the spare.

you can google it. Come back with us. Also folks end of the day. Tell us something good eight five five seven five two four eight four two.

And welcome back to the Dom

salvia show eight five five seven five two four eight four two eight five five seven five seven bouncing all around here and I got lots of topics to get to I swear swear but I want to I want to just throw this out this corporal punishment issue. We talked about these state legislators in Oklahoma really mad so mad so mad that they outlawed corporal punishment on

a special needs children. My God. What are we going to do? And so in, in his defense though, it passed 30 something to like 12. I mean, so some folks are down for it. Who are the 11 others? We're like, no, you know what? We need to keep.

They slur around. We got to be able to beat these kids beat them in the submission. The beatings won't stop until morale improves. I brought up a Wisconsin state rep Shay sort. Well, he is currently in the Wisconsin legislature. He's from the second assembly district. And I remember this cat because we got a jaw boned at each other a little bit when COVID was on and they closed the Capitol down and they invited a bunch of maskless

invited a bunch of people to come sing their Christmas carols at the Capitol. And so we brought a tree in and kind of busted shot us a little bit because why not? And Shay was there and I was inquiring as to what exactly is he getting done for the Wisconsin citizens. And he said, his remark to me was this is for the Wisconsin, my constituents, because he was going to be singing songs.

But to that point, uh, and we talked about corporal punishment and I found my, my resource, my article here from the Green Bay Press Gazette and we'll move on the topic. So I want to throw this out there. So, so, you know, this isn't coming out of my mouth. Wisconsin legislator Shay sort. Well, was referred for felony child abuse in 2013 before elected, but was never charged.

Lawmaker said he used an object to punish his child as the Bible instructed. He now sits on the Assembly's Criminal Justice and Public Safety Committee. Oh, let's see here. Not a great look. Uh-huh, uh-huh.

police investigation took place in january of 2013 before sort of was elected the assembly but he was by uh he was then active in state and national politics served on the green base city council police were made aware of the alleged abuse after a relative discovered five bruises while giving the child a bath relative took the child to a hospital in two rivers according to a 35 pages of documents

obtained by the press gives that through an open records request with the Green Bay Police Department. Sort well told police the Bible was quote very specific about corporal punishment and loosely quoted a verse from Proverbs, whoever spares the rod hates their child. According to the police reports. Now, of course, now a member of the assembly's criminal justice and public safety committee told police he and his wife disciplined the child with a, with an object rather than their hands because.

Hands are for loving. And he said, if they were not using corporal punishment, they were not loving their child because they're not teaching what needs to be taught, the police report said. Physical abuse needs to be taught? Oh, it gets better. Sortwell explained to investigators that he or his wife typically struck the child twice whenever the child was being defiant, then would hug the child and sometimes give the child a Rice Krispie's treat.

After striking the child, now their parent made the practice of checking for injuries, the police report said. Think about that for a minute. Didn't make a practice of checking for injury. Sort of will estimate it. The most recent time he struck the child was three days before the child was brought to the hospital with still visible marks, according to the police report. Three days. And we still have bruises. We have bruises. Three days later.

After a four-day investigation involving four police officers, two social workers, a child forensics officer, a trained agent to interview child victims of physical and sexual abuse, a child advocacy member, and a nurse practitioner, police recommended a felony child abuse charge against SORTWELL and a felony charge of failure to act to prevent bodily harm against his wife. Both charges carry a maximum penalty of six years in prison.

Now, the deputy DA Dana Johnson wrote in a September 15 letter to the Green Bay Police Department that he was unable to prove sort well's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. And then he had to take into consideration, quote, the defense of parent using reasonable force to discipline the child. Johnson also declined to charge sort well's wife. Now they avoided criminal prosecution while the Brown County prosecutor's office was filing child abuse charges against other defendants in similar cases around the same time with all of those cases leading to convictions.

So put that one in, in, in the show notes. Uh, yeah. Uh, statement from sort role released by the police department blames the incident on a disgruntled family member. Yeah. Maybe people don't like it when you're beating the kid, you know, three days later still has marks on their body and, and the discipline hitting twice with an object and then giving a hug and then maybe a rice crispy treat. Yeah. Uh, it's public safety.

elected Wisconsin state capitol right now. Yeah. The best of the best of the best, but you know, the Bible. So, you know, it's totally fine. 855-752-4842. Mark from the sack. You are up. Welcome. What do you got for us? You just blew me out of the way with that, with that one right there. Oh, you didn't know that one. Yeah, man. This guy's a, this guy's a hoot. Maybe I, maybe, maybe I forgot. Maybe I heard of one. Just kind of put it in my memory hole, but it just, just for a whole effect. Did he gets away with it?

Because he had connections and other people, you know, actually got convictions for that kind of, that kind of thing. Again, getting back to the education thing, part of it, it makes me think of this whole thing for, you know, for the segregation of schools and all that links, links back to the whole, and the anti-battle himself was actually illegal to teach slaves and, you know, black people read. And, you know, the whole secondary, you know, separate be equal. The schools were never equal. The schools still are not equal.

I mean, we have the money, resources available to make all our schools a hell of a lot better, and we should be doing that rather than funneling money off to the religious schools, which some of our founders would have vetoed that kind of legislation. I mean, James Madison repeatedly vetoed bills when they were talking about providing funding for religious institutions. I think I posted, I don't know where I posted the, actually posted some of his veto messages on that, that why he said it shouldn't be happening because he said it was a violation of the...

It was Mark. And thanks for the comment. Appreciate your input always. You know, some of these things seemed like, Oh, that's just how it is. It's set in stone. And then all of a sudden another judge or a Supreme court, someone comes in and rolls that thing over and upends what we would consider to be quote unquote normal. And I think, you know, what's, what's, how do we interpret? What's our, what's our baseline? What is the baseline?

Again, it's gotta go back to our founding documents. What is the point of our existence? I mean, we all come from different places, and I don't care what you say, none of us has to be here. And I don't care what you say, none of y'all know where you're going when you close your eyes and take that last breath. None of y'all. I know you got, that's why they call it faith. You're hoping, you're hoping beyond hope that it's paradise awaits. I know you're thinking that, but you don't know.

That's why they call it faith. That's not knowledge. It's faith. And that's okay. But what are our least common factors that bind us together? Well, it is certainly our existence on this rock hurling through space, right? Here we are all together. Whether we like it or not, here we are. And then what do we respect for individuals? Do we have that sense of liberty, right?

Life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness. How, who's against that? Who's against a person's right to live, to exist? Is anybody? Who's against a person having their liberty, exercising, their liberty, their freedoms? Who is against that? Who is against the pursuit of happiness? Oh my God! I've got a sadist, are you? Who's against pursuing happiness?

These, these, this is, these are, are, are base most common factor or least common factors that unite us all. We all bleed red, you know, we all breathe oxygen. We're all, we're all born. We're all going to die. So how do we, how do we make this thing work? And in recent times, yes, historically recent times, given the time of humankind on this earth, we've decided, Hey, this is, this is what's important to us. This is what we reject in absolute monarchy.

We reject an absolute religion. We do. We reject those. And it really is a very radically new idea. It is. It absolutely is. I mean, the authoritarian, I mean, if you, you know, the biggest sword, the biggest gun, the biggest person, you know, whatever the case was, you know, what was the, the Colt 45 was a great equalizer. You know, little guys like me all of a sudden can defend yourself.

It is it that this is this is our least common factor. And I think we when we when we talk about these very difficult situations, politically, worldwide, all these things, I think it go put yourself in this in the position of how does this impact life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? I mean, where else do we go if not to that? Because everyone's got different faith. Everyone's got different ideas.

But do do we do we do you when you are out there and you're spousing your your your your mega ism Are you are you reflecting? Life liberty in the pursuit of happiness are you trying to subjugate people to your ideas? I'm an atheist. I don't buy any of that stuff, but you know what? I'm not doing I'm not trying to I'm not making you believe that That's up to you. I'm not I'm not I'm not gay. I'm not black. I'm not trans

but everyone has the right to exist to do them for their life and their liberty and their pursuit of happiness. Doesn't have to conform to whatever you were brought up in. Expand your mind, man. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. If you are not pursuing those goals, if your politics, if your belief structure, if your culture does not embrace,

life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, I question, then what is your motivation? What are you doing? To what point to what end? To make people believe how you want to believe? To force that upon people? To subjugate people to your will? Well, that goes against everything that we have been trying to do in relatively recent history on this earth as we

hurl through space. And the good news is I saw a headline that, that, that asteroid that had a 3% chance that apparently it's not going to, it's, it's not going to happen now. A little bit of disappointment. I have to say just the tiniest thing I thought maybe it's our way out, baby. Finally, finally.

8, 5, 5, 7, 5, 2, 4, 8, 4, 2. Put it in that context. I mean, that's really what it comes down to. And I know you, Meg, is I know your Republicans. I know you gotta believe that. You gotta believe that. Life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. How do you not? Then go from there. The freedom of religion, freedom from religion. You know, pick your term. You gotta write to it. Knock yourself out. But you don't have the right to force it on us. You don't have to write to take text.

pay your dollars out of the till for your indoctrination. You don't, you want to do that pay for it on your own, right? Like everybody else did until this little concept came up until the blacks and the whites had to start going to school together. Come on. Eight, five, five, seven, five, two, four, eight, four, two. Let's go, Paul. You are up. Welcome, Paul. What do you got for us today? Hey, how are you doing down there? Awesome.

I went to program school and I had one, uh, one teacher. You better sit up straight in class. And I, there was a paddle up there and, uh, yeah. Nobody messed around in his class. That was a program school. And, uh, it didn't help me. No doubt. One quick thing. Uh,

If the Republicans mess with Medicaid, I know a little bit about it because they drive people around. They'll be the last thing they'll do because even the jury manager districts are going to lose. And I got two good things about Trump that I like about Trump today very quickly. One, he wants to get rid of the penny. I hate the penny down. I hate it. Oh, man, a penny for your thoughts, man. What's wrong with the penny? Go on, man. I hate them. That's why you charge card. And the other thing is he wants to.

do away with, um, turning the clock back. That's another thing. So I'm good with both phones. I'll go with those two things. That's it. All right, Paul. We can, I'm down with the stopping of the time change thing. I mean, that I'm, I'm still bad. That's so dumb. Uh, the penny thing, I'm not, I'm not convinced. Am I sure with the, the economic three cents to make one penny, how much does it take to make a nickel? Less. It, it's less. It's because of the copper. Oh, see.

Uh, folks, this is Adam salvage show eight, five, five, seven, five, two, four, eight, four, two, eight, five, five, seven, five, seven. We're going to come back. Tell us something good. We love something good. We got a little toast from Harvey K to Thomas Paine. And we're going to get to it. We're going to start with that. And the corporal punishment, Polly didn't work for me either. You know, I pairs tried that didn't work. So why even bother eight, five, five, seven, five, five, civic comeback with us. Something good coming up next.

We are running in the same race Ain't nobody winning We only here for a minute So everybody slow down Your life is beautiful Let's all take a moment now Let's just try to breathe it in

And welcome back to the Dhamma salvia show. Life is beautiful, especially when you join us and tell us something good to wrap the day up. 855-752-4842-855-75. So we got just PS on the board. You folks are on the lines and on the Twitter line, 855-752-4842. Let's see. We got a couple here that just pointed out. Thank you. Just a Troy from Mount Horib said, enough with the religion bashing. I'm going to music. See you tomorrow.

And then Jennifer followed up directly after that. Hi, Dom and Jess, something good? Dom's spirited discussion of organized religion. It was cathartic to just listen to. Proof right there that it's okay to have different opinions and experiences and views about the world. Of course, of course. And we welcome y'all. We do welcome y'all. And those of faith as well. Listen, Troy, I think your religious privilege might be shining through.

I've said it over and over again. It's up to you. Knock yourself out. You have your right. I got my right. You know, a couple of things I don't want. I don't want anybody, no matter what religion it is to be trying to force that upon me or my children. I certainly don't want us using our tax dollars in doing so. Now that being said, you have the right to worship whatever the hell you want. That's the whole point. That's part of that.

Life liberty and pursuit of happiness part man. Yeah, that's okay I teach religion. Oh my god. Oh my god, but it's not in a public setting You're not you're not you're not getting paid by No, no no parents actually choose to send their children to get supplemental education in the Jewish faith and practices and traditions

And so that's what we do. And that's what you do. Yeah. And that's fine. And I encourage that. If that's what you're into, do it. Knock yourself out, Troy. Jess, whatever. But here's the thing.

just don't use our tax dollars to do it. You know what I'm saying? And oh yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And don't use that to justify like, you know, beating people. Right. Right. All right. Harvey K, our pal Harvey K, you know, he loves himself some Thomas Paine while he was down in Florida. He'll be back next week. He's filling in. He's joining Jess here while I'm going to be in Florida. We're going to miss Harvey by one day. He's down with the Florida veterans for common sense. Tom Paine's 280th, 88th, 288th birthday.

party and Harvey gave the toast and he has shared that with us and we want to share it with you because we love us some Harvey and we love us some Tom Payne. So let's hear it, Jess. I'm down here in Sarasota, Florida. In fact, I've been down here for quite a few days, fortunately escaping the worst of the weather in Wisconsin. I'm here to deliver the toast tonight at the Thomas Payne party sponsored every year by Florida Veterans for Common Sense, a progressive veterans group

originally made up of World War II veterans all the way through to Iraq, Afghanistan veterans, mostly lead, was originally founded, in fact, by Vietnam-era veterans. So tonight is the big night, and they expect usually a good crowd of 100 to 150 people, so it'll be all the more exciting. Here's my toast for those of you who obviously are not down here and able to hear it directly.

In December 1776, during the darkest days of the revolution, Thomas Payne wrote the first of his American crisis papers. Following devastating defeats by British forces in Brooklyn and Manhattan, George Washington and the Continental Army were retreating across New Jersey to the Delaware River and Pennsylvania. Payne wrote with them, determined to continue the fight and defiantly reaffirming his disgust for Great Britain's King George III. This is what he wrote, let them call me rebel,

I feel no concern from it, but I should suffer the misery of devils right to make a whore of my soul by swearing allegiance to one whose character is out of a soddish, stupid, stubborn, worthless, brutish man. The greatest writer of the revolution knew how to call out the enemy. Only 11 months earlier, Pain had published Common Sense, a pamphlet of just 50 pages that would turn the world upside down, calling on Americans to recognize that they were Americans, not Britons,

and that they were fighting not for British rights, but for human rights, pain through words such as, the sun never shined on a cause of greater worth, and, we have it in our power to begin the world over again, emboldened as fellow citizens to be, to turn their colonial rebellion into a revolutionary war, for not only independence, but also the making of a democratic republic. Now, however, it seemed America's cause would collapse on the frozen fields of Tory-dominated New Jersey. But encouraged by General Washington,

himself, pain began to write again, and on a drumhead by campfire light, he penned words that would reinvigorate the struggle and resound through the generations. These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will in this crisis shrink from the service of their country, but he that stands by it now deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny like hell is not easily conquered, yet we have this consolation with us.

that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. So here we are today, just 17 months away from the 250th anniversary of the United States of America, and now we face our own times that try men's and women's souls. Sadly, we do not yet have our own Thomas Paine, but we do have his words to inspire and encourage us. Indeed, let them call us rebels, for we are all the heirs of pain, and in that spirit,

Let us raise our glasses and drink both to the greatest revolutionary of a revolutionary age, Thomas Paine, and to those who are neither summer soldiers nor sunshine patriots, the men and women of Florida veterans for common sense. Wow. Harvey K, our friend giving the toast at the Florida veterans for common sense, Tom Paine, 288th, 288th birthday party cam. I can give you 30 seconds. Tell us something good, man.

Hey, um, so yeah, I've been I made a new friend by walking around out in the woods and I was I was expecting to go and hang out with them After work a couple days ago. Sorry. I'm talking quiet. I have to whisper otherwise she'll hear me but the new friend he he was expected to show up for one of the visits and

instead I fell into a trap that this older lady put put set up and she ended up bringing me to her home. And usually I would want to escape, but she's been making me some pretty good food. Cam. Thank you for sharing. Have a great night, folks. I'm off to Florida. Jess. P. S. Going to be covering for me. Matt Rothschild, James Santel. Now stick around. It is nightlight with Pete Schwab. Have a great week.