What's up, Matt Town?
It is your girl, Brandy Grayson on the Black Convergence Show on 92.7 FM.
It is the show where we discuss politics and families and everything else that's occurring
in our world.
Today I have a co-host, I know you guys missed me last week.
We're supposed to have part two of our discussion on gentle parenting and just the toughness of it
all in the, I don't know, the challenges, the advantages, the disadvantages, the challenges.
And it was just really based on my opinion.
So don't take anything I said two weeks ago to the bank because I'm sure
psychologists would probably disagree.
So anyway, I have a co-host today, co-host guest, Kenan,
Accacin superstar, one of the best wellness coaches I know,
throughout Wisconsin, she owns Proogy Wellness, right?
And I thought it'd be a perfect show to bring her on and act sort of be my guest,
because she does a lot of, or well, I would say you have a lot of conversations around healthy
parenting boundaries with your kids, self-care, health, relationships, you share a lot.
And after I read a couple of your posts on Facebook, I was like,
I don't know why I didn't bring you in the last two discussions,
because the one before gentle parenting we was talking about,
it was like a couple weeks and I had Tara on and we talked about black men,
loving black men, and we needed a part two to that.
So I was like, we're just going to make today a part two day,
instead of coming up with different topics.
So here we are.
So welcome, you're listening to me, Brandy Grayson, 92.7 FM.
You guys should call us and join the conversation.
It's always better when we have our, you know, audience call in.
The phone number is 608-879-8255.
Now, Kenna, tell us a little bit about yourself, whatever you want to tell us,
and then we'll go into our topic of gentle parenting.
Okay, I'll keep it short there, because I know we got a lot to talk about.
But I'm a wellness professional, like everything that you said, Brandy.
I love the topics of parenting, of wellness,
in a very holistic way that encompasses more than just exercising the gym.
And just yoga and dance.
I know that everybody knows me for those things, because that's where I started.
But I've expanded into so many more and so much more.
And so, you know, the things that I typically cover is dance yoga,
breathwork, mindful meditation, nutrition, hormonal balance, parenting,
self-love, self-care, confidence, esteem, all of that.
All the stuff that make you, all the things that we should do,
she coach on how to eat better, how to, you know, get away from me,
how to breathe, how to do yoga, how to stretch, how to build your muscles,
how to look better, how to be better, all that stuff.
That's her in the box.
You should just write a book.
I will.
I use, right, and use.
So, what are the topics we were talking about with gentle parenting?
So, I took a stance on gentle parenting.
And I said, you know, gentle parenting isn't working, right?
And I also, you know, put some context in there.
I was like, you know, I'm also not a consistent parent with my son.
And I think it's because as a business owner and someone who's always on the run,
to actually practice gentle parenting in the way that it's meant to be practice,
it takes a lot of time and a lot of effort.
Like, very, a lot of intentionality as well.
And I don't think I'm very good at it.
So, for me, it was like, you know,
screw gentle parenting.
And because my kid is a loving boy, okay?
But he is rambutious.
And he has been having some, some interesting experiences to say the least.
So, give us your take on gentle parenting.
Like, what are your thoughts around it?
Start wherever you want.
So, okay.
So, for one, I think that when you...
So, one of the things is the language, right?
And so, when we call it gentle parenting,
then that kind of puts it into, I feel like a box or a category of like,
well, people who know about or think about gentle parenting or whatever literature
or descriptions is out there.
The way I think about it is like, you know,
how people have the natural hair movement and whatever their rules are about,
your natural life, this, right?
Or vegan or pescatarian or vegetarian.
Like, all of those rules,
all of your vegan, you don't eat honey.
And, you know, you...
So, you can be a gentle parent in this slap your kid?
What I mean is, is that it's more about what you said earlier,
the intentionality.
So, you don't even have to call a gentle,
but I think intentional parenting is much more of what we're going for,
what I'm going for, what I understand that you're going for and many other people.
I think that it's about just being intentional,
about the way that you're...
Communicating.
Communicating and cultivating your child.
Yeah.
It's like, you know, like gardening.
It's like, there's many ways to do it,
but you just gotta be intentional.
I guess, you know, I get it.
You know, I also said it should be intentional, right?
So, I agree.
I totally agree.
And sometimes, I ain't got time for all of this.
Just do what I said, because we're like,
I literally got two seconds left, right?
Mm-hmm.
But, but I understand the do what I said.
And so, like, I had to really,
when my older son, before Caleb was born,
was when I had to read,
like, so this was like,
2012, right?
When I first started to ask myself,
if the way that I was raised may since,
so the way I was raising my children.
Yeah.
And so, when you say it,
but I ain't got time for all that explaining.
And do as I said.
And really, that's like, you know, of course,
it's patience and control, right?
And so, of course, it takes time to get there by end.
We have to do it by way of communication
and shaping their intrinsic understanding, right?
Because we don't, at the end of the day,
these are things we struggle with today,
but it's an investment because in 20 years.
It needs an investment, but I ain't got time for it today.
But you do.
Do you have time for you?
Yes.
And no.
Yeah.
Right.
Look, I get that too.
Yes, and no.
So part of it is like, yes, I agree.
And when we conceptualize thoughts and ideas and theories,
it's like, that sound really good and that makes sense.
But when it comes to the application of, you know,
deliberately walking in a way where you're talking in a certain,
so the one thing I think my biggest challenge is,
it's not the tensionality on communicating with my kid,
because I'm a pretty straight shooter.
My challenge is this, how do I say it?
This, I'm very much so who I am in all relationships,
whether it's with my children, whether it's with my partner,
if it's with my staff, which is probably one of my challenges, right?
Because I am a matter of fact, I'm straight to the point.
I'm not, there's no sugarcone.
It's like, I need you to go do this and do it now.
Or I'm like, hey, Macy, can you go pick up your room,
clean up your room?
Yeah, Mom, I could do it.
But you didn't ask me exactly to clean it my room.
What you said to me was, go pick up.
And I'm like, what?
Boy, and the thing about it is they get so smart
that they know how to triangulate you.
But are they, so here's the thing.
Yeah, and last week, I was listening, I listened,
and you was like, I don't want my child to be manipulative
and triangulating.
And here's the thing.
I always have to remind myself that my child is not,
you know, has no intentions or goals of manipulating.
Even though it feels like it might not be
and has not just happening.
Here's what it is.
What I think what it is is that they are still shaping
their understanding of rules and trying to understand
and everything is very technical with them.
I will agree and I would add that my son is smarter than that.
He is smart.
And of course, and so then it's like accountability.
It's the second part to it, right?
So if he's like, well, you didn't, okay, well, you know,
then it becomes a conversation.
But again, it's the buy-in that you have,
that you're, that you're cultivating.
Yeah, the buy-in of yes, I did say that.
And you understood what I meant, didn't you?
And he's usually like, yeah, but you didn't say that.
So then, so then y'all, then you might make agreements
with him then, right?
Like, okay, so if you know exactly what I'm saying,
what is, what is, you might ask him like,
so what is your goal when you're,
when you're, when you're, when you're trying to have,
have me say this exact way when you,
on the times when you know exactly what I'm saying.
Okay, well, let's, let's bring Tiffany on
because we finally got us to call us,
so we don't bring Tiffany and Tiffany.
Tiffany, you tell us what your thoughts is
around us, it's apparent to because I mean,
I hear what Kenan is saying.
And I hear you and I just, there's something about like
going back and forth for my kids.
Sometimes when I'm like, this is some bull crap,
go ahead, stop Tiffany.
Hey, uh, hey, so time example,
today, when Kenan was at the house
and her youngster was really adamant
about something that happened on his computer.
Um, and Kenan was really fine
on not going back back and forth with him,
but I tend, I was going back and forth with him
and I feel as if, you know, it's okay
that they have an opinion, you know,
I had to learn the communication that,
well, communication and growth ends up with the Kenan
that like when your kids are like,
challenging you, it's not that they're trying to get over on you,
but they're trying to find a way to communicate with you
because me as a mom, I am strong-hearted.
You know, and my, like what you say,
Brandy, like what I say goes,
but I've learned from my history with my mom
that like I couldn't really communicate well
and that probably trippled into how I am parenting now.
And so I'll have other feedback,
but let me know that you need to sit back
and listen to your kids, you know?
And then talk to you or like going back and forth with you,
with you isn't really trying to like test you,
but they're trying to find a way to get in and communicate.
Yeah, and I've had to sit back a few times to hear that.
And then in turn, like especially with my oldest
when I have to go back and like something like I hear you,
I understand I'm sorry.
Sometimes it takes me a second.
Like sometimes I don't hear right in and there
when I'm going back and forth with him
because I'm the adult.
That's how I feel, right?
Yeah.
And I sit back and I'm like, you know,
why he was actually trying to talk to me.
And then I go back and communicate with him like an,
you know, I hear you, I'm sorry.
And I'm down for that.
I think I'm out work.
Yeah, I'm so down for that.
I mean, that's how I communicate with my son.
But a lot of people will hear us in conversation
like y'all talk like your grownups.
That's right.
Because that's the conversation like I engage him like that
because I also know like you're, so it's that too.
Like yes, he's not challenging me.
But and he is.
And I think both of those things can exist.
Yeah.
I think given the fact of who I am as a parent
and his dad, oh yes, he's challenging.
So do not like to be challenged.
I hate to be challenged by a little kid.
Okay, because when are they old enough for you
to be challenging you?
I mean, obviously right now,
obviously because I'm not in jail.
I'm not, I haven't committed no child abuse.
Right.
So obviously is reframing like your perspective
on what is right place.
Yeah, I guess that's also what we thought when we,
you know, we used to think like, you know,
staying a kid's place, you know, you can't go back to us.
But the times are different.
And we are teaching our kids how to be more independent
and be stronger and things like that.
So we need to respect them in terms of being like the individuals
that they are.
I guess I'm just saying we need a balance.
We need a balance of respect.
Look, we need a balance of them respecting us
and us respecting them and because this,
it doesn't translate into their everyday life either.
And I think that's the biggest problem.
Because now my son at school, like, what's your name?
I could tell my mama, I could talk to my mama,
I could tell my mama this ain't working.
And y'all telling me I can be like this.
Yes, it is not working out for him.
So I would, I'm not okay, Tiffany.
I can't Tiffany.
Thanks for calling in.
So anybody who's just tuning in,
you're listening to the Black Convergence Show
with Brandi Grayson on 92.7 FM.
The radio show where we talk about politics and families
and all kinds of stuff.
So on this podcast day or radio day,
we're talking about gentle parenting.
And then we're going to get into the conversation a little bit
later about loving Black men.
This is all part two and is all politics and politics
and opinions.
But we'll be back in a second because our sponsors
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All right, I'm back.
Your favorite host is with the most is Brandi Grayson
on the Black Convergence Show.
You're listening to 92.7 FM.
You should call in.
You should talk to me.
At 608-879-8255, I have my guest co-host today,
Kenan Ackinson with the Moses.
I don't know why I said that.
But she is our wellness coach.
Today we're talking about gentle parenting.
And then we're going to transition into loving Black men
because for Black women, those are our big political things,
I think.
Hey, all right.
So before we went to break, I made a statement
that one of the biggest challenges of gentle parenting
is allowing our children to, and I guess
allowing is the best word for now.
But holding space for our kids to talk back
and challenge the things that we say
or question us in a way that sometimes
is uncomfortable as parents, especially parents
who come from the old school rearing
where our parents are like, you are to be seen and I heard.
You ain't to share anything.
You know, that kind of way of being.
And I was saying that I allow my son to question everything.
He really does question me about everything.
And sometimes it's really hard to hold that space.
And then he goes to school and he does the same thing
and it's not working out for him.
So I wanted you to comment on that about school
and that whole transition and all that good stuff.
So what I would say is, for me, how I handle with my boys
is, well, my youngest.
Is I tell the teacher at the beginning of the school
where I'd like to go on me, his teacher,
and I'd love to tell her, here's a little bit
about my son, Caleb.
Here is how you're not going to get him to buy in.
Yeah, me too.
And here's the best way to communicate with him.
He is very curious.
He loves to ask questions because he loves to understand.
And so, yes, Caleb raises his hand every time
that the teacher says something and he really wants to know.
And I explain to that, he is nine years old
and he really, and I'm so proud to say this,
but it also was work, he knows that his voice matters.
Yes.
Right.
And so it's just reframing it to be like,
yeah, my son talk a lot.
And he is always going to interrupt reframing it
into a way that is empowering him and advocating for him.
That's what I be doing with the teacher.
Yeah, I mean, yeah.
We do all of that, that don't matter.
I mean, my son, look.
And they need the teacher's girl,
when he want to get up and move around in his class
in the middle of reading, guess what he's going to do?
He's going to move around and move around.
And he wants to do math instead of reading,
guess what he's going to do?
I don't know.
Right, is that what he's going to do?
I think it's OK to move around.
I think it's good that they're learning
to listen to their bodies instead of doing whatever
everybody else is doing because everybody learns differently.
And clearly, Messiah is an excellent learner.
So he knows how to learn, right?
He does.
And so if he needs to move around also,
you know, like, Montessori style teaching,
it is more so we go with the flow, right?
And if he's not in a Montessori school,
then OK, I understand that they have a certain structure.
But then it's like, how can I,
until the teacher, we're partners in this?
But I am Caleb's number one.
I'm his advocate.
Absolutely.
I mean, so me and his dad spend a lot of time at school,
yeah, advocating, girl.
OK, so he also, let's just say,
because he's the only kid, right?
So he ain't the only kid.
But I mean, he's the only one in his kid.
Right, he's the only kid.
So he is, you know, he's been a homeschool
most of his life, his first year in school.
And he goes to private school, but his first year in school.
So he has a hard time with a lot of things.
Like, I don't know if it's the Michael, you know,
if it's the development of microabression, microabression,
that's coming towards him, or if a balance of that,
and like not just needing time and practice to socialize,
knowing how to share, knowing how to play with other kids,
knowing how to, and the challenge of my son,
though, is he goes from zero to 100 real quick.
Like, so if he's playing football or something,
and you do something to him that he doesn't like,
oh, it ain't no.
But that's also development.
Talking, right?
It's developmental, socialization, brain development,
and language, right?
So like, even to be like, OK, I noticed
that, because one time people said, oh, I just felt rage.
All right, so when you feel rage, how would you like,
let's plan in advance, such a resource in advance?
We do practice.
And so some of it is development, and listen, it comes.
And you got to trust the process.
Like I am raising an emotionally intelligent young man
who knows how to advocate for himself,
who is resourced and supported, and all of those things.
And I have to trust that developmentally,
that emotional stuff is going to catch up.
Yeah, I mean, I hear you.
I hear all of that, and I agree with you.
It's brain development.
So it's part of like, for me, it's like the aunt, right?
In the aunt, yes, that's all true.
All of it's true.
I'm, you know, the advocating for your kids,
meeting with the parents, the teachers,
making sure they understand what works best for him.
And him and my, him and his father, him and my size father,
and I don't play when it comes to him in school.
And I have to say his dad does a really, really good job.
And by, by the way, y'all know,
if y'all know anything about me and his,
my baby daddy, oh, I couldn't stand that dude.
But he is a great dad.
You know what I mean?
I don't know about relationships,
but that man is a great dad.
And he does a great job advocating for his son
and showing up for his son.
And still, there's moments where I'm just like,
what am I supposed to do right now?
Right?
Like when I've had to ask you like five times
to do something, right?
Like, hey, Messiah, turn off the TV, it's time.
And so consequences, right?
So it's like, so with, with Kayla,
everything is consequences and accountability, right?
So if I say, hey, son, I think you should set a timer
because your bedtime is coming up.
And if you are on your tablet after 8.30,
you're gonna, I'm gonna have to take some of your time tomorrow.
Right.
Well, no, I don't want to set a timer.
All right, well, if you don't want to set a timer,
that's your choice, right?
And I'm a respect that I'm gonna do what I'm gonna do though.
If you don't get off, then I'm gonna,
only thing I'm gonna do is what I said I was gonna do,
which is, you're not gonna, let's take your tablet tomorrow.
Right.
I didn't do that to you, you did that to yourself.
Right. Right?
So a consequences, clear consequences.
Oh my God, you're so right.
And that pre-emptive, that pre-emptive setting him up
properly for his expectations too.
So if I say, all right, listen, you know that bedtime
is at this time, follow through because if you don't,
here is the consequence that naturally follows that.
If you waste my time, I'm gonna waste yours.
So I'm gonna take some of these.
What I hear you saying is gentle parenting
isn't gentle in the sense of the word.
Gentle parenting is setting boundaries,
setting expectation and enforcing accountability,
which has to be consistent.
When I'm, yes, and I'm saying,
let's let go of the term gentle parenting, perhaps.
Yeah, perhaps.
Let's perhaps frame it as being intentional,
about raising a type of human that you like
when he's grown or a human that you're proud to say
that you raised, right?
And that contributes to the world in a certain way
that you agree with hopefully.
That sounds so good.
Don't that sound good, y'all?
I know y'all listen like, yeah,
I wanna be just like that when I grow up.
This is my third or fourth child,
and I'm still trying to be just like that.
So I'm gonna encourage the parents that are listening
and you're tuned into the Black Convergence Show
on 92.7 FM to be gentle with yourself
because parenting is not an easy thing
and there's no manual and there really isn't
a right or wrong way.
Because you could follow all these steps
and your kid could still grow up not to be the perfect person
that you thought they were.
They wanted them to be or follow a certain trajectory
because my older kids who are 29 and 28 and 24,
I was no gentle parenting or intentional parenting.
I just was a straight like, do what I said and do it now.
They turned out pretty good.
Mine too, look mine too.
They good, they might have to do some therapy though,
because part of that kind of parenting
is that you don't allow space for them to be or feel.
So now they have to unpack that as they get older, right?
And I had to be intentional and even getting into conversations
with my dope children about how screwed I was as a parent.
And making amends.
And making amends.
Being owning that.
And I did that with my son was 12.
Absolutely.
I used to, because I used to whoop.
I used to beat the crap out of my kids, okay?
But we ain't doing parents no more.
Obviously, because my son is looking at me like,
but mom, this is mom, what you said was,
and you did this and all I could do is sit there
and look at him and be like, yes, I did.
So anyway, y'all, so I really appreciate you, Kenna,
because you really gave examples, tools,
kind of like this practice of skills and communication
that we all need.
So again, you guys are tuning in to 92.7 FM,
your girl Brandy Grayson on the black conversion show
we talk about families and polytricks.
We're gonna go ahead and let our sponsors speak again.
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I'm just kidding.
Stay tuned.
All right, y'all, you are back.
Listening to your girl, the one that you love
that y'all love, Brandy Grayson on 92.7 FM
with my co-host, Kenna.
And we are talking about gentle parenting,
but we were, but we're gonna transition
because today is what I'm titling,
part two of the things that everybody wanted to hear again.
So this is our second week talking about gentle parenting
and we got so much input that I just had to bring it back.
And she is like the professional of gentle parenting.
But as Kenna said, we should stop calling it gentle parenting
and call it intentional parenting.
And everything she said today, I totally agree with her
on 100%.
So we want to transition now into another topic
that's really important to people known as black
and black women specifically from parenting
and being in relationships.
Now this is not for all women, right?
Cause everyone's not cis or they don't necessarily date
people who identify as male.
But for the folks who do, this conversation is for you.
And the folks who do date male, that ain't women either, you know?
And one of the things that we talked about a couple weeks ago
was the loving black men.
And it was Tara who was on the show as my co-guests.
And a lot of her work is grounded and founded
and providing and holding space for black men.
Cause as she's put it, there's not a lot of space
where they can feel and be honest and be authentic
and deal with and unpack their own trauma.
And as a lot of our listeners know on Facebook
and otherwise when we talk about people known as black,
we come from and come with nine times out of 10.
This is not absolute, right?
This is just a general statement.
Nine times out of 10, we come with a lot of trauma
that's historical trauma that's passed down through generations.
And then just like the aggressive and authoritarian parenting
that we were talking about, that's what we come from, right?
And that was passed down.
So now we're in a place where we're trying
to do something different and even that is challenging
because we get triggered or we have these other frameworks
or scripts or stories about how things should work
or how our children should be.
So now in 2024,
we are trying to figure out,
well, I, well, forget it.
Oh, I wasn't in the F word.
I was at that first and I'm so sorry about the same.
No custom, we're live.
Okay.
So we're trying to figure out what is the best way
to love black men, right?
And the challenges of loving black men
and I also thought you would be a perfect partner
for the conversation because you put something
on your Facebook the other day about second chances.
And trust.
So I'm wondering if you can share a little bit
about there because like what that,
what share a little bit about what you posted
and what that,
because I'm assuming you were talking about a black man.
Okay, okay, go ahead.
I was, okay.
So in that, so basically that post that I wrote about was,
when I was seeing someone,
we broke up, I gave them a second chance.
And in that time apart,
I mean, in the time when we rekindled,
you know, we were having a random conversation
and he was just like,
and I was like, tell him about a time
when I didn't trust myself.
I was like, and I just didn't trust myself.
And he was like, well, do you trust yourself now?
I was about to try to do his voice it out.
Don't do it, don't do it, don't do it.
Okay.
Okay.
And he asked me, do I trust myself now?
And I say, yeah, right?
And then he went on to play,
to play me left, right up and down
and around and around.
And so then I had to prove to him that I did trust myself
and I had to let him go, even though letting him go.
It was hard.
It was hard, it broke my heart, okay.
And I never thought that I was gonna get past it.
Like, I mean, how significant this person was to me.
I never saw, I never thought that there would be an end.
Yeah.
But it was, and it was necessary and it was important to him.
And when I did, after I got done blocking him on Facebook,
YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, Cash App,
on every app, including my phone and email,
from every way possible.
And after I got done alerting my friends and family,
I was like, wow, I really do love myself.
Like I said, I do, I really do rock with myself.
Like I do, oh, and I also blocked all his associates
and acquaintances as well.
Just to be safe, like no love lost,
but for my well being.
For your well being.
So part of this is like the trauma.
So getting back to the trauma.
One part is we, a lot of times, folks like you and I,
and I say folks, I'm just gonna put you in the box with you, okay?
Because my assumption of you is that you're empathetic,
caring, loving, and sometimes naive when it comes to,
or have been naive when it comes to loving a man.
Yeah, the perfect suspect to be groomed
and manipulated by a narcissist.
Yes, that's me, that's me too.
Okay, so I knew I didn't get it wrong.
Okay.
I'm the perfect suspect.
Me too, you're not alone, okay?
So part of that is like we get suckered in
because we also want to be the healer, the, you know,
let me, you know, let me, let me help you figure this out.
Let me, let me understand, let me, let me not let you down.
Like all the other women did in your life.
Let me down like that.
Oh my God, that's the perfect way to create it.
So that's the story at least.
That is the story in your head, right?
That they told us.
That is true.
That is the story.
That the women, that everybody abandoned them
and so I don't want to be the one to abandon you
because I am a loving person, you know?
I am understanding and compassionate.
Oh my God, yeah.
Are you in my head?
Okay, so part of it is like even when you're in this relationship.
So there's one part that came up where you like,
okay, I can no longer trust this.
So I'm not going to do these things on my let it go.
But then something happened.
Like so there must have been something that you were missing
that you were receiving or felt like you needed
from this person that you felt the need
to give them a second chance.
What is that?
And I want to call that the joy of loving black men.
I know exactly what it was.
Okay.
Because I understand the framework of narcissistic,
manipulative relation.
So what it was was hoovering.
Oh, tell me some more about it.
So, okay.
So what happened was it got to a point before that
when I had to make it clear like listen,
I desire deserve and require A, B, and C, right?
And then the person, they was like,
oh, it's hurting me that I'm hurting you, right?
Okay.
Oh my God.
Is that like in the book?
No, this is what the person says.
But do they get it from a book?
Cause I think they might.
Cause I'm hurt because I'm hurting you.
I'm hurting, it's hurting me that I'm hurting you.
And so I had, so then I, you know, it ended.
We let, I had to let it go.
I had to let it go.
Right.
All right.
On Valentine's Day.
And so then later down the line, they,
so they never, they, so it's like, oh, now I know these things.
I should have ended all communication and contact,
but I didn't know.
I think we're mutually parting ways, friendly.
And so later, but they always stayed around.
They would still check in periodically and listen to the other.
And then eventually they had invited me to spend time with them again.
And, and, and it was like, we never had left off.
You know what I'm saying?
So it, so you say what was missing?
Like, I don't know, I know that I always had this longing
for that person still.
And what was the joy in that when it came back was because the person,
with everything that I complained about, they did now.
Now they were doing.
So I was like, oh my god, this is perfect.
Like, we're, we're back, right?
But it was, it wasn't, it wasn't that.
It wasn't that, but also it was, it wasn't that.
And during our time apart, I had really spent time with my hurt and pain
and also with my requirements and deservingness and desires, right?
Required as I deserve, I spent so much time with those things
and really understood me.
And so I really like, since I spent that time apart, I was,
I, I kind of, the codependency and all of those things, I, I did not,
I wasn't resonating with it.
Wasn't aware.
Oh, yeah.
I didn't resonate with anymore because I really like spent time with Kena
and learned to love and be company with me and enjoy my company.
I romanticized and dated myself.
Hmm.
Again, you guys listen to 92.7 FM,
the black convergence show with your girl Brandi Grayson with my co-host,
Kena, and we are talking about the joy and terror of dating.
And I just put black men in here, but it could be all men,
any men short, tall, black, brown women, well, whoever.
But I just say black because I'm black and then it's just like the black
experience and perspective.
Okay, I interrupt you, but I just want the people who were just tuning in.
You can also join the conversation at 608-879-8255-608-879-8255.
Okay, okay, back to what you was saying.
So I was just saying that so during that time apart,
it was a blessing because I really got to learn Kena with distraction free.
And what is the word when you dependency free and distraction free?
Like I did not have, there was nothing for me to reach for instead.
Like in that, you know, like how people reach for drugs or alcohol or man.
I did not have a fixed fit.
I didn't have any of those.
And that's what that happens a lot in relationships.
And especially from people who come from traumatic backgrounds, right?
I don't know your background.
But I'm assuming, yeah, that there was some trauma there because it appears to me
that women who have traumatic backgrounds, whether it's, you know,
I don't abandon issues or other issues that occur in their life,
we become very susceptible to narcissists.
Like it's like you said, it's something in us that want to fix things
and not be the other women that did them wrong.
And then we bring it into the relationship and it almost become,
you use the word co-dependent.
We become co-dependent on what though?
When most nine times out of 10, we're, we're the bosses in the relationship.
So I'll say this.
One thing that I remember that I, that I was thinking of myself when I was
in relationship with this man, I remember I looked at him and I was thinking
and admiring him one day.
And I was like, he treats me the way that I wish my father would have treated me.
Like he did everything and showed up in every way
that I wish my dad would have.
Right?
Yeah.
And so in that time, and so, you know, like when I realized that,
like he's like the perfect father to me.
Oh.
Right?
Man, y'all listen to this.
So they've filled in that guess.
Okay, if you got, oh my god, look, I just want to start to care for you, look.
I'm not crying, but I think in a different time, I would have cried saying that.
So we have this tendency to date dudes or attract people
or get on the same frequency of people who feel voids from childhood and mimic them.
And I tend to attract the type of men.
I noticed that I attract the type of men.
So, you know, like I was very happy having somebody in my life who
represented what I felt like I, what I missed out on as a father.
Yeah.
And then I also noticed that I, I frequently attract men whose mama let them down.
Yeah.
And then I noticed, I thought about it and I was like, how am I, I'm attracting
these men, they're attracted to me, they're very, they love like a lot of what the
qualities that I have as a mother, right?
They admire my parenting.
But then they also punish me for that, for what their mama didn't do.
That's real.
You know, that's real.
And is that a, is that just narcissism in?
Because I feel like that's a lot of men.
I think that it's just attributes of hatred.
I don't think it's narcissism, but because I think it could be anything
and anybody who's mama let them down.
So, but in our culture, and it is racism too.
And racism.
Because the, the, you look at the systems that affected either our moms or our dads
not being there in the generation before us.
Yeah.
The war on drugs was started in our parents generation.
Yeah.
Foster care, children's getting taken out of the house and that's right.
Just some people who are unaware, the war on drugs literally removed men from our communities,
right?
In two ways, in two ways.
And they also removed mothers because the mothers became crack addicted, right?
Men became, they got on the street and started selling it.
They were arrested and some of them became drug addicts, right?
And then the, doing that time period, that's when the torch should have been passed to
the next generation.
So in our days, back in the 80s, 70s, I don't know how old y'all is, but back in my days,
there was a big mama.
There was aunties, there was neighbors, there was community.
And when the war on drugs hit hard and wiped it all out.
So when your mama went at home or had to work or do something, your neighbor will watch
you.
You'll go to your neighbor house after school.
There was kind of this village and the war on drugs destroyed all of that, right?
And mind you, that the war on drugs was, the reason drugs were in the black community
is because it was the government who needed to fund their war in Russia, right?
Or whatever war that is, right?
So they needed to get money so they put drugs on the street.
And then from there, they destroyed the black communities.
And then the big industrialization of prisons occurred, right?
So now they needed to fill the prisons and then that led to this whole thing.
So just for some context for y'all.
So it's very systemic and strategic.
Yes.
Very solid.
And so that our generation is the result, is the product because I think before then,
dad was in the house.
They were at least around.
They was around.
Somewhere.
You know?
We could at least find them.
Yeah.
You know, and my children, at least one of my kids can't even access his dad because he's
incarcerated.
That's real.
Or dying or just not mentally well.
So that brings me back to the joy and tear, right?
Of loving black men.
Because another thing I want to acknowledge is the father thing.
Like for a lot of us, we didn't have father.
So when you get a man that you think is the one, you know what I mean?
They hold you right.
They kiss you right.
They do all the things that you you wanted.
Like I wanted a man to, you know, fix me.
My thing is, with men, is less financial, right?
Because I feel like I'm good.
I don't need my body.
It's exosermists.
I want you to change my tire.
Go get an oil change, fix the broken bed, do the plumbing, do some stuff around the house
because having a home and having a mortgage is expensive.
But if I can pay you to lay down the floor or do some stuff, I feel really loved.
And if you could cook and fold laundry, that's the added thing, right?
So I'm feeling all joy.
Yeah.
But that's the joy.
That's the joy.
That's the joy.
And the terror is, is our history of trauma and drama.
So I don't know how many seconds we got left, but I know that we need to take a break.
But again, you're listening to 92.7 FM, the Black Convergence Show, with your girl, Brandi
and my guest, Cole Holtz-Kena.
And we're just out here talking about the public tricks, really, of Black women, but that's
not the topic today.
But it between family and men and trying to, like, heal, we'll be back.
I got like a couple of months before the show is over.
We'll be back, call in, 608-879-8255.
All right, the hostess with the most is me, Brandi Grayson.
I'm back on 92.7 FM.
You're listening to the Black Convergence Show.
And we're really talking about love, loving men, loving men with trauma, and specifically
the Black men that we usually love.
And one of the things I wanted to say is that how do we balance the trauma that we come
with, right?
Because Black men that come in a relationship with trauma, apparently, and obviously, we
do too, right?
Wanting someone to feel the void of our daddies that wasn't there, right?
And having this imaginary type of story about what a man should be, and definitely not
the Black men cannot be what white folks have given us in terms of the framework for men,
men, and masculinity, and all of that.
So there's all kind of compounding trauma and effects that's occurring in our community,
especially in relationships.
But we have a caller.
I'm sure DJ can give us some, some different perspective, some male perspective, black male
perspective.
I'm assuming he's black because his name, go ahead, Darryl.
Can you hear me?
I can hear you.
We can hear you.
Yeah.
Not bubbly conversation.
You're both having a insightful and powerful and moving conversation.
And yeah, I would say, you know, part of it is, there's a premise that we're supposed to
sit into this kind of European concept of man and woman.
And that's a falsehood to begin with, because that's a premise based on property ownership.
That's how European cultures have developed.
They want to own things.
People, slaves, women, that's how they have it.
It's not based on relationship and value, which is what we get to create.
So, and it is the trauma.
We were broken from the back to this kind of problem.
And now we expect some man to, you know, I'm a man, women expect me to bring the property,
treat them like properties, control them.
And that shows up on the cystic end and self-serving.
That's the goal when we're saying the dots, because it is true.
It is so true.
So what he just said, y'all, sort of people who can hear the conversation is that we exist
in this European culture, who is indoctrinating European culture that has trained us and taught
us really that people should be owned.
And it's more about owning and controlling than valuing in a relationship.
So our men are giving this framework of being and women are saying, yeah, you're supposed
to own and control.
And then it actualizes as narcissism, right?
Because in this context, men really do get to have in patriarchy and a misogynist society,
get to have their cake and eat it too.
And when we say no, you actually cannot, but the world around them is saying, yes, you
can, as long as you're the provider, as long as you take care of everything, as long
as long as long as long.
And then when they cannot fulfill those, this, this, this, and that, the only way they
give validation in their minds, whether we agree or not, is jumping in these inboxes,
right?
When they're bored, when they feel intimidated, when you don't, when you don't act right
well, and she gonna leave me anyway type of thing.
Go ahead, there you got something else.
Yeah, just saying it's not based on self-realization and actualization.
So what starts to happen is that it becomes shallow.
Whereas if you go back to the late 60s and even the early 70s, you'll see that black people
especially started to evolve, we, we, listen to the songs, listen to what we were going,
keep your head to the sky, you know, I might have sung for you, it goes on and on.
So there's a self-actualization we're about, that's relationship, relationship is not
property ownership.
That's how we go.
That's what people are missing.
Oh my God.
So when you say that, that reminds me of Polly and open relationships too, because a lot
of times, even as women, we want to own our partners, we, we want to control them, right?
I mean, it's something not you, not everybody.
But this, this, this is what you're saying makes so much sense to me because, you know,
I'm sorry.
I have had these conversations with my significant other, right?
And it always comes down to a conversation about ownership and it's usually like from
him to me, right?
Yeah.
And I'd be like, you know, like, you know, you don't own me, I own me, I belong to me, you
know?
And then I often tell him, you know, like when he's asking me for all of these, like promises
about the future and I'm like, I can't make it.
And then even if it's like, if it doesn't, if the future doesn't turn into whatever vision
he has, I'd be like, what book are you getting these rules from?
Right.
And then also I'm asking him.
If it doesn't turn out, however, your destination is, are you telling me that this time has been
wasted instead of like valuing and cherishing the moment and time we have together?
Because who knows how long we're supposed to be in each other's company, but can we,
if we don't, if it doesn't turn out how you want it to turn out, is it nice, isn't,
right?
I'm like, why can't we cherish our time together?
Yeah, that's a good, I'm so glad y'all said that because I also struggle with that because
I actually would love to be in relationship in a way where people are actually free to
actualize.
Like, I don't even want to own someone like, I don't even want to be in a monolithic relationship
because my ownership is limited to mine.
Yeah.
So like, even when that's what you're saying, like in a relationship nowadays through patriarchy,
men want to do what, it's like marriage is only for a woman to be with their husband,
but also allow space for them to do whatever they want without, well, as long as I don't
disrespect you or violate you, but that's been like, that's just like the 60 or 70s.
And I'm like, look, how about we just agree to enjoy each other and value each other.
And if we want to make each other primary, great, let's be primary, but you don't have
to, because then if you, you've jumping in someone's inbox, I'm not offended.
You can't play me.
You can play yourself, right?
You can play yourself, or you can play that perfect, but you can't, you can't offend
me by jumping into someone's inbox because I don't own you, right?
And I don't, and I have no desire to own.
Yes.
And I want you to be free to do whatever you're going to do in whatever way that feels
authentic.
And that also says that men can't allow their women to exist like that.
Because it's like, well, if I'm going to be faithful, because I need you to be faithful.
And so then it's under those conditions.
And it's like, I can't, so that's why I'm like, I can't agree to those conditions, even
if I have no intentions on not being monogamous.
Alex said on Facebook, I think as black men, we often lack non-intimate physical touch.
If you haven't been held since puberty, then you seek out partners just to feel comfort.
And that's the piece that we forget.
And that's why I mean the joint here.
The intimacy.
Yes.
Because a lot of the times people I've been with that have jumped in inboxes or reached out
to other people.
It wasn't because they had an issue with us.
It's because of that.
It's not really what Alex said.
Like just platonic affection.
Yeah.
Anything, any attention.
Yeah.
Anything.
It's less about the sex.
But I think in our society, we make it about the sex.
That is huge.
This is a great conversation.
This is a great conversation.
Oh my God.
DJ, can you join us next Thursday so we can finish this conversation?
Yeah.
Okay.
Because I think you will bring us some great insights.
Okay.
So next 30, Thursday, y'all, we're going to have a part three in European standards and
work for relationships.
And how is it?
It's driving us all bonkers.
Yeah.
Because it doesn't work at all.
It doesn't work.
Because we're not European.
Well, we're not European.
I don't even think it's working for them.
You're right.
They're just like, but they're, but they like, well, I'm not going to say anything.
Well, dominance, patriarchal.
Right.
It's a strong.
They're ownership.
They want to own everything.
The brick, the mortar, including the land, the people, the women, the children, the
uterus, the uterus.
Right?
Okay.
It's true.
They want to own all of it.
It's true.
So you guys are listening to the Black Convergence Show.
The show hosted by me, Brandy Grayson, based on politics and family.
And we just really do a lot here.
As you can see, we can go from left to right, 0 to 100.
It don't matter.
But tune in next Thursday, every Thursday, 7 p.m. on 92.7 F.M. and I'm going to have Kena
back again.
If she's available, she's going to become my co-host for getting it.
I was going to back in.
Yeah.
I was going to buy her and DJ's going to come back.
So that's the end of our show.
Until next week, peace, love and hair grease.
