We're here with special guests on the morning show Cindy Riley, a social worker at the Richland Hospital, and RN Linda Stadler, who are back to talk about a special month.
Linda, what month is it?
This month is...
special because it's National Healthcare Decisions Day.
That actually is on April 16th and it's a time when we like to focus on getting more advanced directives created and maybe they need updating and also just to talk about the mechanism of how to go about deciding on filling them out and the forms that we have available for you.
Why do you care about this as an RN?
The reason is because it is so patient focused and that's what is so important to us as caregivers because we have something written that tells us what patient wishes are and that's our primary focus when we have someone in the hospital or someone to care for is what are their wishes.
It's not what
Matters to the hospital or what we have to offer maybe that kind of thing But really where the direction that this particular person wants to take in their care and it is so personal and so diverse for people We can respect anybody's wishes as long as we know what they are mm-hmm
Good point.
And I'm guessing you worry a little bit if, if there's nothing clear there, you know, somebody comes into the hospital, right?
Yes.
And especially, you know, you end up when people do come to the hospital, a lot of times they're not well enough to speak or express a lot of their wishes.
There's, they're so sick, they just don't feel like going in depth on those discussions.
And that's what makes it so important to think about doing these ahead of time.
We don't want to see people trying to create the document in a crisis.
I mean, if it needs to be, well, sometimes we get some direction, but it's much better done at a time when you have ample time to discuss with your family members or whoever's closest to you.
And you can actually contemplate some of the decisions that you might have to make in your future.
Cindy, this is not just an old people thing, is it?
No, anybody 18 or older really should have a document.
What we spoke about all the times that we've been on the radio is Wisconsin is not of next of kin state, although the legislation did just pass on March 19th that Wisconsin will now be a next of kin state.
We don't really know exactly what that's gonna entail yet.
There'll be trainings and more information to come out.
It doesn't actually go into effect.
until June, but it's a big step in decision making.
But of course, we still always want to have the power of attorney for healthcare documents done.
Not only is that as a legal document, it's truly a gift to your family because
Each person is diverse and unique and you're going to put down your wishes and it really helps a family in that time of crisis to see, okay, this is really what mom or dad or my loved one wanted.
And so it takes the pressure off that person making the decision, knowing that they're just following the directives that have been given to them.
Yeah, it is a real gift, I think, to
the
family, isn't it?
Sure.
Takes the pressure off because, yeah, a lot of times the kids, in a special crisis situation, may be the last thing you want to think about, right?
Right, right.
And if there's disagreement, sometimes, you know, amongst families, as that happens during a crisis, again, they can review and say, okay, this is really what mom wanted.
When someone comes in and makes a power of attorney for health care,
We always like them to bring their decision maker with them if possible because it's all about the conversation, which is why this new advanced directives that we go through, it's very personable and diverse and people can really put their wishes down.
We try to bring the conversation out between the family members.
people need to make an appointment to get this done then, right?
Yes.
You can always do it on your own.
We prefer just so that it's done legally because you wouldn't believe how many times we'll review them and they might not be done right.
And so then they're not valid.
So it's not a valid document.
But at the hospital, you can call and make an appointment.
We have some volunteer that does them.
Social worker Ryan Elliott from Pine Valley comes up and does them.
And Dr. Butcheryk also is now retired and is a
volunteer and does some.
So it's great.
Angela and myself do them on the acute setting when necessary.
We prefer not to do that.
That's not a great time for someone to have to make their decisions and fill out this.
power of attorney, but if a doctor says this really needs to be done, then we certainly do do that.
And I take appointments as well.
The people used to do that with their lawyers?
They do, yes.
They still do?
They can, but we do save them a lot of money if we do it for free because it is a legal document, then there's no charge then.
Okay, so take us through what happens when somebody meets with you for advanced care planning.
Do they need to bring some special things with them or anything like that?
No, we do.
Well, we give out a folder that does have like an advanced directive guide and some other handouts, CPR and things so they can look at that ahead of time.
Many people do, some don't, but that way they can have a little bit of information and we just really kind of, I don't think they really go over a lot until we start, you know, talking to them about
if this was the situation and you no longer you know recognized anybody or you know you're you're in a vegetated state and so we kind of give examples and then we go down through the document of what would your wishes be during that situation.
You mentioned before going on the air, the five D's.
That's something that I've never heard that before.
So tell us what the five D's are,
Cindy.
Thanks.
So yeah, the five D's are, if you did a power of attorney for healthcare and you have that done and kind of filed away, just to kind of in the back of your mind, think about when you should review that document again.
So we kind of tell people by the five D's, it's if there's a death.
because that can affect kind of how your decision-making will go.
You've went through something.
A divorce, a new diagnosis, a significant decline in health in every decade.
So those are times that you should look at your power of attorney for healthcare and see if your wishes still align with what your thoughts are and your preferences are.
You probably sometimes forget, don't you?
Yes, you do.
You can.
And sometimes it changes.
An 18-year-old versus an 80-year-old have different goals in life at that time and different health care goals in plan of care.
Yeah, Linda, it's not always the end of life.
thing is it?
No it's not and more recently they've taken to looking at when someone has serious illness.
This is kind of a priority time for you to start thinking if you haven't already got a power of attorney for health care.
I've got a serious illness now.
What things might be in my future with this serious illness?
For example, if I find that I've been diagnosed with kidney failure, should I be thinking about whether I would accept a dialysis or is that something I'd prefer not to do in my future?
So I think the idea of a diagnosis with a serious illness is a good trigger point for, you know, okay, I better get something done if I don't have power of attorney for healthcare.
Maybe I need to go back to the one I had done and see what I've got on there so that I review my decisions.
There are no right or wrong decisions.
It's all personal, so your choices are the right choices.
has nothing to do with the facility you're at or who you're creating it with.
Some people rely heavily on their pastor or priest, you know, for some advice.
Other people rely on family and some more so on their friends.
Resuscitation, is that, that's one of the key things?
It is usually, it's a key question for people because obviously it's life or death a lot of times.
You know, resuscitation involves CPR, we call it, compressions on your chest and breathing for you if either of those things stop.
And people have to make their own personal decision whether that's right for them or not.
I do think many people are surprised about the statistics of CPR, though.
They are not very good for
successful resuscitation in that you regain your full mental capability and everything.
In-hospital resuscitation only has about a 17% success rate, and out-of-hospital is as low as 2 or 3%.
So a lot of people think, oh, well, yes, I'd always want CPR, but
the statistics are not really good for it.
And those are questions you should ask whether it's CPR or, you know, should I have this particular surgery they're suggesting?
What's the success rate?
I've heard in my past, sometimes a surgical success rate described as only 5% successful.
Well, that paints a
pretty important picture for me if I'm trying to make a decision.
So I think it's important for people to ask lots of questions as they're creating a power of attorney for health care document.
And some of those questions are not things that, for instance, Cindy or others might feel that needs to go to the surgeon or your primary care provider or that kind of thing.
People talk about, I don't want to be hooked up to a bunch of machines, keep me alive.
I've heard that a lot over the years.
Yes, and it's true.
And with all the technology that's available these days and the things that they can do, it's amazing, you know, the amount of support that can be provided to the physical body to sustain life in those cases.
But a lot of times you will know in a short period of time what is the success of regaining your capacity, your ability to walk, my ability to return to my home.
There are things that a lot of times the doctors can weigh in and help with decision making.
I guess maybe some people might have that glimmer of hope though that you know hey if I hang on maybe they'll find a cure or
something.
Hope is so important to recovery and I would never want to diminish hope for any person that they might fully recover because you just
never know.
The human body is an amazing thing, but I do think that statistically a lot of times you can find out, okay, so many people with this diagnosis ever are able to walk again, for instance, or something like that.
So I think it is information that you can use to weigh your decisions.
Cindy, I think people probably come to you.
Hopefully their mind is made up.
I'm guessing
You're not really wanting to give them advice on what they should do,
right?
Right.
No, we don't go through I know we don't give them advice, but we'll go through different scenarios Like I said, you know, if you're in a vegetated state you have zero capacity to regain who you are you knowing people who they are kind of all of that, you know What what are your choices that you want or you know, you've been in an accident So there's a little bit more hope sometimes and these are the different steps of what do you want and so really kind of
talking through it.
Sometimes people will think, you know, well, that's a lot to really consider.
I'm going to have to make another appointment with you.
I'm going to talk to my kids.
I'm going to do some research.
And that's why even having that other person there because they can, you know, talk about different stories and what means a lot to me.
Some people want to, you know, sustain life no matter what.
And others are like, you know,
Quality means more to me than than quantity, but that's an individual choice and there's no right or wrong answer for that for anybody But yeah, so we always advise them if they have Medical questions on that to talk to their physician and their medical team.
It's important to choose the the health care agent You know in some ways it's an honor to be chosen that person isn't it?
It is and we always tell them you know who they feel can best
make their decisions for them, follow what they have put down as their decisions.
I've had someone, you know, one time come in and they said, you know,
I know I should really be putting my spouse down, but I don't think he's gonna be able to do this.
And so then counseling them that that's okay, it doesn't have to be your spouse, and you can explain to them why.
I think this is gonna be too hard for you, you're gonna be grieving, and so we're gonna choose whoever is next in succession, which maybe will be somebody that's able to take on that time, because it is a crisis, and it is a time for them to have a strong person that's able to withstand the honor of making those choices for that person.
You mentioned the five D's, but divorce, maybe somebody is divorced, but they need to come back and redo their health care plan.
They do.
So yes, if you're married and you get a divorce, then your document is null and void.
So you may want to choose a new health care decision maker at that time, or you may want to continue with your
Well, ex-spouse and that's okay, but you still have to have a new document done because once you're divorced and it's after the date of when the document was created and signed, it's no longer legal.
And if it's been decades, there's a chance maybe that person has passed away or maybe somebody's fallen out of favor to be honest.
That is true too.
So it's always good to review it.
Yeah, as much as you can.
And sometimes people will say when they're in the hospital, you know, hey, can I have a copy of that or will you pull it up and let's go through it?
And we're always happy to do that.
Do you ever have any sessions like some learning sessions where people can go and classes and things like that?
We don't have classes, but I believe the like the ADRC I think they even have something going tonight.
I think it is where they do have Information out there on their website and they're doing power of attorney for health cares and kind of in in groups and different Educational pieces to go with that
It's like a lot of things, Linda.
It's not always easy to talk about, but it's pretty important,
isn't it?
No, and I think that health care agents, if there is more than one named, that can be very reassuring to people too, because if the first health care agent has passed away, there's always another one named there.
Or sometimes the family members or whoever's named, they'll
They'll sit down in the conference about, well, do you think we should do this?
And I think it's reassuring to people to have more than just one person to make those decisions.
What you're trying to do when you're the health care agent is put yourself in that person's shoes and speak for them.
It's not what you want as a health care agent.
You're trying to put yourself in their place and say, well, mom would want this or mom wouldn't want this.
And so if you use that frame of mind, I also think it makes it easier to make decisions because you don't feel
guilty that, well, gosh, I should have done this and maybe I should have pursued this.
When you're speaking in their voice and know what they want because you've had some discussions, it really takes a lot of burden off of people.
Yeah, I think maybe the person, the patient needs to
Have that discussion because not everybody is willing as somebody might want to be I don't want to be anywhere near the I want to be a million miles away, right?
It's not a comfort zone by any means for people talking about end of life or illness or serious illness and sickness is not something that People are just comfortable sitting down and doing and that's why I think when people set up
to have a conversation with the social workers and the facilitators.
They have an outline kind of a prep of, OK, let's go through these certain discussions to try and figure out what your wishes might be.
And those health care agents hearing that
It's like, okay, I've got to feel now for what this person might or might not want.
They want to have all treatment no matter what their condition is, or they are picking and choosing certain things or saying, you know, I never want this done.
That kind of direction is invaluable to people as a healthcare agent.
So if I have my documents filed at the Richland Hospital but I have a episode, another city somewhere, how do you communicate with other hospitals?
One good way of doing that is they can actually contact the Richland Hospital and get those documents faxed to wherever you are.
I'm a little bit over the top with advanced directives and I recently two weeks ago traveled to Phoenix, Arizona and I carried
a copy of mine with me.
I just thought if anything comes up, I mean, we're both over 70 now.
It's like, you know, the chances that something might happen.
And so give those documents to the people, the healthcare agents, so they have copies, because they can always run it in too.
If I'm at the Richland Hospital, one of my sons can bring in his copy and say, here, here, I have it right here.
Or you, if you travel far, you know, maybe it's a good idea to have a copy with you.
That's some great foresight and planning on your part there.
I'm impressed.
It might be a little over the
top.
I don't think so at all.
Some people just keep a copy in their glove compartment box in the car.
If you're in an accident or anything, and somebody happens to see that, it also gives you who would you want contacted immediately.
There's going to be their name, their number, and it makes it easier if you happen to not be in an area where people know who you are if you're traveling out of city, out of
state.
The official copy is at the facility, but yours is just a paper copy.
That one is not a legal document, or how does that work?
They're all legal, any copy is legal.
We give the original to the patient and then we make copies and so they'll have copies to give to their decision makers, to other people in their family, to other hospitals, wherever they want them to go.
And they don't need to be notarized, so it's not like you're looking for is this an official copy or that kind of thing.
Once it's been created, witnessed and all the signatures are intact on it, that's an official document.
Wonderful.
So April 16th, Linda, you mentioned that's
a
special day.
National Health Care Decisions Day.
We really hope that we can get more people creating their power of attorney for health care.
One of the statistics that I saw this week regarding adults.
in america's that only about a third of the populate third of the population over sixty five has a power of attorney for health care so let's go richland center and get our statistics up there we can do it and it's so important to be able to follow your wishes
now someone comes in and again a virgin situation they don't have them you've got to kind of scramble don't
you yes we do and that's where this next of kin
law will come into play.
When you have a power of attorney for health care document, they're going to go to your health care agent.
And
so I may have named not my next of kin, maybe my neighbor's the one that I've put on my document.
And that will be the official go to person.
And Cindy, you said this next of kin in Wisconsin might be coming into play in June.
Yeah.
So the bill was passed in, um,
On March 19th, I believe it, we were, Wisconsin was like one of two states that has not been next of kin for many years.
So we're very happy to have this go through.
We're not exactly sure what that's all gonna entail yet until there'll be trainings and webinars on that out throughout the state that we'll attend and kind of find out.
But what it's really gonna hopefully save is the need to having to get guardianship.
So a lot of times if you're in a hospital and you need to go to a nursing home
for rehab or anything, or even in another state, and you're wanting to move here to a different facility.
If you're not decisional, and you live in the state of Wisconsin, you are not able to move that loved one without a Power of Attorney for Healthcare document, which means you have to go to court, get guardianship, and that costs a lot more money to do that.
And that's a difficult time.
It's usually during a crisis, so that's even more difficult for the families, which is why I said it's not just a legal document.
really is a gift to your family because it helps through that crisis.
You'll have to come back and see us if it does go through in June and, you know, there's been some classes and things
like that.
So we'll have more information.
Yeah, give us an update.
Yeah, it'll be great.
We'll do that.
Well, thanks, ladies, for coming in today.
We appreciate it.
Thank you, Phil.
Thank you.
Very good information.
Cindy Riley, Social Worker and Linda Stadler are in with the Richland Hospital.
If any questions, people can contact you, right?
Sure can, correct.
Let's give a call to the hospital.
That's right.
You bet.
On our morning show today from WRC it is actually occupational.
Therapist month and we're gonna talk a little bit about that today courtesy of the Richland Hospital Haley Sprucker is here an occupational therapist and certified hand specialist.
Thanks for joining us today.
Absolutely happy to be here.
I don't know that we've had this topic on the warning show before so this
is kind of exciting.
Yeah, that'll be great
new territory and it's kind of a little bit new territory for the Richland Hospital too, isn't it?
Yep.
Yep.
They've definitely still they've they've had a strong occupational therapy presence.
Absolutely.
We've got some great
to use over there that have been there for quite some time.
But yeah, I'm coming in as a certified hand therapist, kind of a specialty offshoot of occupational therapy.
So I'm happy to be able to kind of provide that new level of service to the Richland Hospital and Clinics.
Tell us a little bit about yourself,
Hayley.
Yeah, so I grew up in Spring Green, so pretty close by.
So I was in Madison for about 10 years before this, working with the SSM clinic.
So happy to kind of decrease that commute and being able to be kind of back in my community and being able to kind of give some specialty services to patients in this area has been great, especially to be closer to home to family and being able to kind of raise our children in this area again too.
Tell us a little bit about hand therapy and
what that's
all about.
Yeah.
So like I mentioned, it's kind of an offshoot of occupational therapy.
So it's a specialty track that you can go on.
Basically, you need kind of 4,000 hours of patient contact with specific hand and upper extremity, complex traumas, fractures, kind of specializing in orthopedic conditions of the hand and upper extremity, but still within occupational therapy.
that discipline in general.
So being able to kind of use occupational therapy in which
we basically use what people wanna get back to.
So physical therapy, they're gonna get you up and moving again.
Occupational therapy, they're gonna be able to be able to get you back to what you need to be doing, whether that's your normal everyday routine, getting up, getting dressed, making a meal, all the way to your passion for sports and getting back to knitting, crocheting, kind of those hobbies that people are really passionate about.
So
yeah.
Do you see a lot of work injuries?
We do, we do, yeah.
a misconception I would say with occupational in the word that people like me and occupational therapists only see work injuries but definitely not the case.
We kind of use occupation as whatever anybody needs to get back to and definitely in some cases that is work and seeing people that are injured at work but so that's a good portion of it but also seeing people that need to just get back to normal occupations whether that's like I said getting dressed, getting up, getting making a meal.
and kind of the occupations that people want to get back to if that's hobbies and what not to.
What inspired you to go into this form?
Yeah, so I was always knew I wanted to do something within health care kind of settled in between PT and OT and never really knew the OT portion of PT and OT.
And so I was able to kind of shadow some different therapists in the area and really kind of fell in love with how occupational therapy used people's passions to get them back to what they needed to be doing.
So being able to utilize
things that people are passionate about like crocheting, like gardening, sports, everything that makes them the whole person and being able to use those passions within their exercises because it's a lot more fun to do an exercise that you're passionate about to be able to get back to your passions than it is to just sit down and do an exercise.
So I really loved being able to see like kind of the whole person and get them back to what they need to be doing.
Do we take our hands for granted a little bit?
I think so.
I think so.
It's been really, really rewarding to be able to kind of see people that have traumatic hand injuries and even just as small as a finger fracture.
I think the thing that I hear the most from patients is, oh my gosh, I didn't realize how much I used my
small finger or I didn't know how much I used my left hand until it wasn't available to me.
So I think we do.
I think we do take our hands for granted.
Absolutely.
Whenever we're toting and carrying things, we put a lot of strain and pressure
on our hands, don't we?
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
And so that's something that we see a lot, whether it's arthritis in the hand and that kind of stuff, or all the way up to overuse injuries like tennis elbow and golfer's elbow or strain of the shoulder.
Yeah, we put our upper extremities
through a lot throughout the day, whether it's work, whether it's hobbies, whether it's sports.
So yeah, they definitely take a beating
for sure.
Do you see some athletic injuries from time to time?
We do at times, yep.
We see, I would say a lot of like throwing injuries, that kind of stuff.
We'll see a little bit more of for that, but even gymnasts with wrist injuries, that kind of stuff.
A lot of finger injuries, football injuries that a finger gets
stuck where it's not supposed to and dislocation.
So a lot of fractures, dislocations, that kind of stuff within the sports realm, but also just general aches and pains too.
How many bones are in the hand?
Oh, good question.
Just in the wrist, I think people are, um, are always surprised to hear there's a good, um, there's a good section of small bones in the wrist.
And it's not just your just one wrist bone.
It's going to be a good, um, I believe it's nine.
You're quizzing me here.
I believe it's nine little bones in the wrist, but even within the hand itself, I think people are really, um, shocked to know kind of how much goes into that hand and being able to see just not even the bones, but even.
the amount of muscles that are in your hand to be able to kind of do good dexterity and have that strength.
I think people are really kind of shocked to hear how much is going on in that hand.
Isn't always bone injuries, but a lot of tendons
have issues, right?
Absolutely.
So a lot of tendonitis that we're seeing that kind of stuff, especially
when it starts to be kind of gardening season, we see a lot more overuse injuries with tendons and whatnot, but also kind of more of the...
of the traumatic realm of tendons where it's going to be tendon lacerations.
Kind of going back to what you mentioned about work injuries, things like table saw injuries where people are getting into their hand with the table saw, obviously not recommended, but seeing a lot of those tendon lacerations where people have to have the surgery to repair their tendons.
So a lot goes into that as
well.
I think it's still there, but it shows this man's hand and his finger is you know like kind of
pull downward in like a tendon or whatever, and they're offering some sort of, I don't know what it is, therapy or surgery
or whatever.
But
obviously it changes people's lives if you can get that finger straightened up again.
Absolutely.
Yeah, like we were talking about as far as do we take it for granted?
I think things like that where, yeah, so that's a dupatrance contracture, but if that starts to kind of really impact your daily life to be able to fix that is huge.
It really makes a huge difference.
for people to be able to use their hands normally, to be able to pick up their grandkids and make a meal and kind of share their passions that they have within their life.
Yeah.
I was thinking of guitar players
too.
Yes.
Yeah, a lot of musicians, a lot of piano players.
I've seen a lot of guitar players as of recently, I feel like.
And yeah, if you can't go back to what you love, it really takes a toll, not just physically, but mentally too.
So being able to kind of share
or share ways that people can get back to that and whether that is a surgery or just conservative treatment is huge for people.
Definitely such a rewarding part of the job.
If someone is listening and they're experiencing something like this that we've talked about, Hailey, what's the next step?
Your primary?
Yep.
Yeah, head to your primary, kind of get checked out, get an order from your doctor.
And then, yeah, we can see you as far as occupational therapy goes and I can as well for kind of those more complex hand traumas and injuries.
But yes, usually an order from the doctor is what you would need to have first.
Are there some typical signs that maybe people ignore?
when they're having
hand problems?
Yeah, I would say it's those things that I mean if it's a trauma obviously that's that's front of mind right where if there's an injury to your hand you're gonna you're not gonna forget about that but I think it's the cases where aches and pains kind of creep up on people a little bit whether it's I've just got a little bit of numbness and tingling in my fingers occasionally or I've got a little pain in my elbow but
Um, slowly that starts to kind of worsen for people.
And I think those ones are easy to kind of push off for people.
They don't often, whether it's like, okay, it's just going to go away on its own or something like that.
I think staying on top of those things and, and knowing it's a lot easier to treat them if it's
more of an acute, it hasn't been going on for too long type of pain.
A lot harder to treat those ones where it's more chronic and it's been around for years and years.
So staying on top of those type of things and knowing, okay, there's things that we can do that are a lot easier and make a bigger difference if we can see a little sooner than that.
And then you set up like weekly
appointments or how does that work?
Yeah, typically we'll get you in for an evaluation about an hour or so.
And then yeah, depending on what
the condition is or kind of what the symptoms are.
We'll see people twice a week perhaps or even just once a week or even setting them up with a home program that they can start to do and then seeing them back in a couple weeks.
So a few different options that we have to kind of tailor to the patient and being able to kind of give them what they need.
So there would be some exercises, some typical things that you'd be able to do on your own then.
Yeah, yeah, depending on whether it's like a surgery or whether it's more of a conservative management
of an injury, yeah, setting them up with an exercise program.
There's things that we can do in the clinic to work on soft tissues and whatnot, some different types of soft tissue manipulation that we can work on to kind of decrease pain and get things moving a little bit better.
And then on the surgical end of things, obviously we have more of like a protocol that we're working through with patients and kind of giving them the pushes that they need, but also kind of helping them to manage pain.
and other symptoms that come after surgery to send them on the right track.
So recovery after surgery might take a little bit longer than in
some ways?
Typically, yeah, typically.
Not always the case, of course, depending on the surgery, but I would say typically, yeah, if we're seeing somebody for more of like a complex hand trauma, we're gonna be seeing them for a lot longer than we would for somebody that has tennis elbow or something like that.
Are there some typical myths about walking it off or sucking it up, so to speak, when you're
having some issues?
Yeah, absolutely.
I think one of the biggest things is kind of this no pain, no gain mentality of, okay, I just got to push through this pain and it'll get better on the other side.
But typically your pain is there for a reason.
So for things like arthritis, not
kind of pushing that to the wayside and pushing through the pain, but respecting the pain, knowing it's there for a reason.
It's telling you, okay, this is, it's too far for what that joint can do right now, and it's a little too much stress for that joint.
And same thing during surgery, we're kind of working through post-surgery, we're working through a particular protocol where we're not stressing
the repaired tissues too much, but kind of finding that balance.
So it's definitely not a situation where you want to push through the pain.
So I think really kind of respecting that pain and not having it be this, yeah, like I said, like this no pain, no gain mentality would be one of the biggest things.
So many of us are on keyboards all day.
Do you see a lot of issues from that?
Yes, absolutely.
I think now that, I mean, so many of us are on our computers and on our phones, our shoulders and our bodies.
naturally kind of adopts this posture of kind of rounding the shoulders forward and kind of hunching over a bit.
And I think things that are as simple as setting an alarm on your phone every couple hours where you can just kind of stretch out those shoulders a little bit, bring those shoulders back can make a really big difference.
Things like
making sure that you've got a good ergonomic setup of your computer system where your arms can kind of be relaxed at your side.
You've kind of got a good 90 degree angle at your elbows.
Risk can be nice and straight to just kind of make sure that you're not putting a lot of stress on the joints and the tendons.
And then with the phones too, making sure that as you can, you're trying to kind of set that phone on something or put it on a stand so that you can use
your hand without gripping the phone at the same time.
A lot of times we're seeing a lot of strain and pain coming from individuals who are holding their phone while also kind of scrolling with their thumb.
I think there's even something called thumb scrolling pain.
So we're seeing a little bit more of that where something as simple as setting the phone down and using your hand without gripping the phone can be really ideal.
We hear a lot about carpal tunnel.
Is that similar to what we're talking about here?
Yeah, you definitely can.
Well, we see a lot of carpal tunnel.
We think of it, I think a lot with computers and whatnot.
And basically that kind of stems from some pressure at the base of the palm and the wrist.
That constant pressure can push on that nerve that's in that carpal tunnel.
And you end up having numbness and tingling at usually your thumb, index finger, middle finger, and then half of your ring finger actually.
So usually
that's going to be a little bit more numbness and tingling, maybe some weakness, but we kind of see that a lot more with
um, people who might be doing a lot of forceful gripping or somebody's sometimes when you're on the computer for a good amount of time where maybe your hands resting, um, on the, the keyboard rest or whatnot for a prolonged period of time.
But yeah, definitely a common one that we see.
Absolutely.
I always enjoy, uh, when the Richland hospital and clinics, uh, send this, uh, experts like you because, you know, I, I don't have to charge my insurance.
I can, you know, I can ask you questions, but I had this issue that it's gone away now, but my, my little finger would be numb.
all the time and I found out that there's a tendon in your elbow that
And
what I was
doing, I think I was sleeping with my arm like this.
So my hazard was sleeping.
But is there something you can wear or something like that to keep your arms straight at night?
Yeah, absolutely.
So yeah, it's actually a nerve that's going underneath your elbow there.
It's kind of that nerve that you hit if you hit your elbow and you think about your funny bone nerve.
That's that nerve that you accidentally hit with your elbow.
So it's your ulnar nerve.
It gives feeling to that pinky finger.
But a lot of the times we do see people where
Yeah, it's sleeping that causes the complete numbness.
And basically as you're sleeping with your elbow fully bent, it's just really kind of stressing that nerve.
So a lot of the times I'll tell people something as simple as taking a bath towel and rolling it over your elbow, sticking some tape at each end to basically prevent you from
sleeping with your elbow fully bent.
But there's some different ones out there too that I think are marketed for that, but something as simple as a towel can be really beneficial and kind of lead to a lot less of those symptoms.
And then there's some different exercises too that I can always send you if you need.
Well, I appreciate that.
I'll have to stop sucking my thumb at night,
you know, so my
arms stay straight.
That's always recommended.
Do you have any success stories or anything like that you can talk
about?
Yeah, so I feel like there's so many numerous ones.
I think one that really particularly sticks in my head is an individual that I had that I think she was doing something like she was sweeping the dust off of her ceiling fan.
So she was standing on her bed.
She stepped wrong.
She fell off of the bed and she ended up breaking both wrists, which would obviously really kind of take you out of commission.
And she was an older lady and
I remember her just feeling really, really down.
I mean, it's a pretty catastrophic injury to be splinted with both hands and it kind of leaves you...
pretty disabled.
And so being able to kind of walk her through the rehab process of kind of pushing her a little bit, pushing her enough to make gains, but also kind of respecting what she was going through was obviously very traumatic.
And being able to kind of guide her through that process, it never gets old to hear people's success stories at the end.
And her, I think in particular for her, she really wanted to get back to crocheting
hats for babies and for her grandchildren and being able to pick up her grandchildren.
Those were the biggest things for her.
So to be able to get her to that point where she was able to pick up her grandkids and get back to her passions of knitting and crocheting was huge.
It never gets old to hear how
that people are able to get back to what they want to be doing, that just never gets old.
I bet not.
And when you can improve somebody's quality of life by working with their hands, that's just amazing.
Absolutely.
Because like you said, we use them day in and day out.
They're always being used.
So it really hampers things when you can't use it.
So yeah, it just never gets old being able to hear what people are able to do and what they're able to get back to with their hands and really
give them a good quality of life again.
That's a rewarding part of the job.
But what would be the toughest part?
Yeah, I think the toughest parts for me are the ones where obviously when people have surgery or there's injuries or whatnot, we expect that it's just going to get better, especially post surgery.
We expect that it's just going to get back to to quote unquote normal.
And as we know, it doesn't always go that way.
We want it to, but sometimes surgery doesn't yield the results that we want it to or the injury doesn't repair like we want it to.
And I think those are the toughest ones where it's like people are doing everything they're supposed to do and it's just not, their body is just not coming back to where.
they wanted to.
And so those are the hard ones.
But I think with occupational therapy in general, we do a really good job of adapting to people's deficits as they need to too.
So even if there is something where it's not going to recover like maybe we want it to, we've got different ways that we can still hopefully allow them to do their quality of life.
and again, get back to their passions that they want to be doing, but maybe just in a different way.
It's tough, and I think with anything, if it's an injury or whatever, you shouldn't compare yourself to someone else because everybody's recovery time is different,
isn't it?
Exactly, exactly.
Even between the hands, I had a surgeon once who described it as the hands are sisters, they're not twins.
So we've had patients who have had carpal tunnel surgery on both hands at different times, and one recovers beautifully and one
just doesn't do as well.
And so I think that's really challenging for people too, is to have obviously the good one happen first.
And it feels like, wow, that really made such a tremendous difference.
And for whatever reason, the other hand just doesn't do as well.
And so I think those are the tough ones too.
Yeah, where you're trying to compare it to other people or to your own self.
To your own self.
I didn't think about that about one hand
being better than the other
ones.
Yes, absolutely.
Are you doing anything special at the Ritzel Hospital for occupational?
Yeah,
we're actually gonna start to do a grip strength leaderboard basically between kind of patients and staff.
Grip strength actually is something that is kind of tied to longevity.
It's something where you want, if you have a good grip strength, it actually is tied to a longer life expectancy and kind of a function.
your functional ability to kind of do your functional tasks for longer.
Um, and so kind of getting that word out there, we're going to try to do a little bit of a leaderboard.
Let's see who's got the strongest grip strength in the, in the community.
Um, and we'll try to maybe share the results, um, with, with in the clinic as well.
So you're having some fun
with it.
Perfect.
Anything else you want to add Haley?
Um,
No, I think just having people be aware that I'm over there a lot of times with surgeries or whatnot.
I think surgeons that are out of our system, out of the Richland system, kind of like their...
their patients to be able to see a hand in upper extremity specialist if it's something a little bit more complex.
So just kind of sharing the word that I'm over there at the Richland Hospital and Clinics to be able to provide that service for patients and have them not be able not have to drive all the way to Madison or to a different different community.
They can hopefully stay within their community and have less of a less of a drive.
How many days a week are you there?
I'm there Tuesday through Friday.
So Mondays are my day off, but Tuesdays through Friday, I'm over there.
Good.
So people can find out more about it through the Ritzland Hospital,
their primary.
Yep.
Reach out with your primary, absolutely.
And you can always call with questions.
Wonderful.
So nice to meet you.
Yes,
you as
well.
You bet.
And so nice to learn about this as well.
Haley Sprecker joining a certified hand specialist during Occupational Therapy Month at the Ritzland Hospital and across the land.
Thanks for joining us on The Morning Show.