On Transparency In Wisconsin Public Schools (Hour 2)

From the Civic Media World Headquarters in Madison, Wisconsin, it's the Todd Alba Show.

And now, pursuing truth wherever it may lead, here's your host, Todd Alba.

Across

Wisconsin on the Civic Media Radio Network.

and streaming worldwide on the Civic Media app.

Good afternoon, everybody.

Todd Alba, along with Mr. Aaron Zommers, our producer and engineer on the board.

It is six minutes past the hour of two o'clock on this Tuesday, October 21st, 2025.

It is a great day to be a Wisconsinite.

Welcome, everybody.

Glad to have you along here on a Tuesday for the old world headquarters of Civic Media, downtown Madison.

at the intersection of state and fair child here in Madison.

A quick look outside at the Sam Davidson street cam Zomers, a little rain.

My mom likes to say into every life, a little rain must fall.

And it

was nice earlier.

Went over, got some coffee at Wonder State and now showers have taken into downtown Madison, but, you know, that's part of fall.

Overcast and shower it

was yeah, I would I would say it's still nice You know, it's a gentle shower you wear a coat you have an umbrella or you just stay in the doorway and you're fine right

that Need a little moisture that'll that'll be fine.

So hopefully you're enjoying your day as you go throughout the day today in Wisconsin gonna be a great show today coming up an hour, too We talked about this last Friday when the news broke via the Capitol Times great reporter Danielle DeClos

is going to be here talking about her reporting.

She is the enterprise and investigative reporter at the Capitol Times and did this story on Department of Public Instruction in Madison and Dr. Jill Underly, who is the state school superintendent.

We talked about this last week and our colleagues Jane McNair and Greg Bach along with Dan Schaefer Civic Media's political editor spent a large chunk of time on their show on Friday talking about this as well and If you have not read it It's a difficult story it's a it's a well-written well research story, but it's difficult and it has to do with over 200 cases

of teacher sexual misconduct and grooming cases in the public schools, and the fact that the Capitol of Times did a open records request and received this information, and the fact that many of these people who were investigated simply gave up their license in exchange for not having the investigations go further.

Now, the

state school superintendent refused Dr. Jill underly refused to I Should say declined being part of the story had her spokesperson Talk instead and the spokesperson said it would be a conflict of interest quote-unquote for a doctor underly to be interviewed and so the article came out and

And it's disturbing certainly and the DPI's position is that well, we had over $600,000 in our budget request to the Republican control joint finance committee, the budget committee, which was denied.

And if we had only had this money to have more people to investigate these things and to process them, they would have seen the light of day.

Look, I'm not here to dispute that, but for me, the

Disturbing part beyond to me.

There's two parts of this a the disturbing evidence in these accusations in this story and then there's the which I think is for these purposes the the more concerning part in that Dr. Underly refused to Sit for this interview She has not spoken to media that I know of and now there is a

state assembly committee meeting on Thursday of this week in which she has been asked to testify and to just, you know, let's have a conversation about this.

And thus far, we do not know whether she's going to attend that.

Her lack of transparency to me is deeply disturbing.

And as we talked about on this program before,

I think a good analogy in terms of how you handle things is the stewardship fund, the Nelson-Knoll Stewardship Fund, the conservation program that also requested more money in the state budget and got denied.

And they've launched, we've had them on this show Nature Conservancy and other people have launched a public campaign, have been working with legislators in a bipartisan manner.

to say, okay, we didn't get it in the budget.

How can we do a standalone bill?

What is unclear, and so far, Dr. Underly has not come forward about this, is if this was the major problem that obviously it is based on the Capitol Times reporting, why didn't she, and look, I've been in the building, as they say, of the Capitol.

I worked for the Senate Majority Leader.

When you have

a piece of legislation or something in the budget that doesn't get addressed or doesn't get funded.

The people who are good at these things have a press packet ready to go and you call a press conference and you get the cameras there and you say, look, these are the facts.

These are the evidence I have.

We have a major problem in this state.

in processing these very disturbing cases to keep our kids safe.

I just went in there and asked for over a half a million dollars to address this, and the Republicans said no, which is their right.

But I'm here to tell you what the problem is, and I'm asking for the public's help.

I'm asking for bipartisan help in the legislature to find a standalone bill that the governor can sign that we can put more monies into these positions to keep our kids safe and process these cases.

And Dr. Underly did not do that.

I cleaned my desk this weekend, by the way.

I spent four

hours.

Zomber is his witness, right?

Yes, your efforts paid off.

It is very clean now.

Thank you.

At least compared to before.

Now it has a normal amount of stuff on it.

It was pretty nested in before.

It was nested.

But what are the advantages to having a

top of desk filing system is that I have, you know, and because I don't know if it's because of my dyslexia or whatever it is.

Uh, if I have an article that I'm going to read from, I read better when I have a piece of paper in my hand.

So yes, I print stuff off every day.

I don't just read it off my screen.

Some stuff I do, but most of the stuff I print off.

And one of the stories that I printed off, this is back from February.

of 2025.

Yes, I had an article from February still sitting on my desk as of this weekend.

From the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel headline, state superintendent skips forum while her challengers take questions on vouchers and more.

And it reminded me that that this is a person, Dr. Underly, who refused to debate in the election where she got reelected this spring.

And with it was put on in part by with politics and with politics president according to the Journal sent bill at the time Jeff mayors Said he provided two dates to the campaign Brittany Kinzer who was the conservative and Jeff Wright the fellow Progressive quote responded right away and shows February 6th underly said she had a conflict Mayors said with politics asked for alternative dates

but her campaign did not provide them.

Underly's campaign said she was unavailable to attend because of a University of Wisconsin System Board of Regents meeting.

The DPI superintendent by virtue of their position serves as a regent.

Underly missed at least a part of the board's education meeting that began at 1030 because she held a 1030 press conference in Madison to discuss Head Start programs.

that have been unable to access funding under a freeze issued by President Trump.

The Head Start programs goes on to talk about Head Start.

The WIS Politics Forum took place from noon until one.

Overlapped you with the board's scheduled lunch break.

Underly's campaign offered no clarity as to why Underly missed at least part of the Board of Regents meeting, but could not skip the board's lunch break.

Her campaign referred questions about her to the DPI.

The DPI said, underly participated in the press conference because it's important to share the local effects of federal government decisions.

A spokesperson said the lunch break allowed the board to eat before continuing the meeting.

I mean, that's a half a page in this story about the state school superintendent debate forum.

simply making excuses and explaining to why and why Underly not only didn't participate in the board meeting or the forum, but also skipped out on part of her duties in the Board of Regents meeting because she scheduled her own press conference, which she could have had any time.

I bring that up now because I think it's important to establish the pattern here.

And by the way, when we first started this show, three, I'll go on three years ago, be three years next month, Jill underly came on this program.

I don't know, two or three times.

I thought it went well.

And then all of a sudden she just stopped coming on.

And to my knowledge, maybe one, we asked her to come on our show last year during the state school superintendent race and nothing, crickets.

She skipped the debate.

To get reelected to her own position and now not talking to reporters and not only that Friday late Friday, she came out with a statement Claiming that the story about how her department conducts investigations is inaccurate

and demanded a public correction on an article claiming the Department of Public Instruction had hidden its investigation of 200 cases of sexual misconduct and grooming from school staff.

Quote, the reporting is not only incomplete and misleading, it is dangerously irresponsible, unquote.

It distorts the nature of the DPI's work in this area of its crucial legal and procedural facts and undermines public trust in the same systems designed to protect Wisconsin students, unquote.

But yet she doesn't say what that is.

By the way, a Capital Times editor Mark Taren told Senator Squares from Senator Square late Friday afternoon, quote, we stand by a reporting and expect to have a more complete response by Monday.

So Jill underlies tactic here is to pull a Donald Trump to attack the reporter and the press.

I don't know what to suffer with this person.

I think it's disqualifying, quite frankly.

We're gonna have Danielle DeClosse from the Cap Times on the show in hour number two.

Oh, and by the way, more news regarding the Department of Public Instruction, this time from the Wisconsin Public Radio, by the Capitol Times, Wisconsin Public Radio, not exactly...

Right wing news organizations, right?

Headline audit finds nearly a quarter of Wisconsin schools missed financial deadlines.

The legislative audit bureau made 22 recommendations to DPI to improve procedures.

The legislative audit bureau is a nonpartisan part of the government.

Run for years by J.M.

Mueller has a stellar reputation.

They found about 20% of independent charter schools, 10% of schools in the parental choice program also missed the statutory deadline for submitting financial paperwork.

The financial reports from schools and school districts are necessary for DPI to calculate state aid payments to ensure educational entities are financially viable and certify all districts and schools are complying with legal requirements.

The legislative office or audipural found something else out.

I'm going to tell you what it is on the other side.

And by the way, where is the concern, the criticism, the press release from Democrats in the state of Wisconsin?

There is none.

Back after this on the Civic Media Ready Network.

I'm doing it welcome back to the title of all show on the civic media ready to work 22 now past the hour of two o'clock on this Tuesday October 21st 2025 glad to have you along Aaron Zommers on the board and as we welcome you back in here Coming up a little bit later gonna be talking to Danielle DeClos about an hour from now a little bit more the Enterprise investigative reporter at the Capitol Times on this story she broke last week about DPI and Superintendent Jill Underly

on the over 200 teachers sexual misconduct issues and the lack of reporting there of, and she'll be with us and we're gonna ask her some of these things, give her the opportunity, I should say, because underly put out a rebuttal on Friday.

And so we'll ask Danielle about that.

But also yesterday, Wisconsin Public Radio out.

stating that an independent audit of the Department of Instruction, public instruction, found about a quarter of Wisconsin's school district missed the deadline to file financial statements, the 2022-23 school year.

Well, you say, okay, fine.

I mean, not fine, but I mean, that's the district's fault.

They didn't do their job.

Right, correct.

Don't disagree.

But according to Wisconsin Public Radio, the auditors

At the legislative audit bureau, a non-partisan entity also found DPI did not begin to review reports for more than two months after the December 15th deadline to submit and failed to track how the reviewing team spent its time.

Auditors issued at least one financial reporting deficiency or weakness in control of our financial reporting for 370 of the 421 school districts.

DPI policies require school submit plans describing actions they will take to address each deficiency.

Again, whether it's the story of the Capitol Times, we're going to talk with the reporter about

in our two or whether it's this story from Wisconsin public radio the deeply concerning part in terms of policy politics and institutions is who's running the department of public instruction in wisconsin right now i i mean it's either being mismanaged or unmanaged and again this is reporting from the capital times and

Wisconsin Public Radio.

Dr. Underly has a responsibility to the taxpayers of the state and to the voters of the state and the children of the state to have her posterior in a seat in a committee hearing this Thursday in the state capitol.

And if she's unwilling to do that and unwilling to take questions in public,

that in my opinion, she ought to tender her resignation and allow Governor Evers to appoint a replacement.

And I think to run her up with a contest, Jeff Wright would be a great candidate.

855-752-4842, 855-752-4842.

Let's go to WCFW.

It'll Claire Jean.

It'll Claire.

Thanks for listening, Jean.

What's

up?

I appreciate your caring and that you care about our state, that you care about kids, and you're passionate, and I love you for it.

But I have to say, I read the articles too, in that it was very confusing to me because there were over 200, they said teachers, but then later they said staff, aid, substitutes, and different things that were added into this.

So I'm very confused by

this report.

In addition to that, I think that now I, you know, it's been a while since I've been in the school system, but I think that that stuff has to be reported to the police, but, you know, when there's accusations of abuse.

So I think that there needs to be more understanding of, you know, how was this handled, but they also have to be very careful for students' names.

for situations and for the teachers.

So this is involved in the absexual abuse.

Let's look at the Epstein files,

you know?

Yeah, let's do that.

I'm 100% on board, but don't agree or disagree.

that Democrats who are calling for the release of the Epstein files, and I'm not a Democrat, but I'm also calling for the release of Epstein.

If anybody's going to call for the release of Epstein files, shouldn't we also call for transparency in our own Wisconsin Department of Public Instruction to make it?

And we're not talking about victims' names, Gene.

This is a matter of people who said, and this isn't going into the criminal realm yet, but in exchange for dropping and having internal investigations dropped, they surrendered their licenses.

and there's no way, in my understanding, we'll ask the reporter, there's no way for other districts or other jobs that might involve working with kids to know why they surrendered their license.

We're not talking about releasing names, we're talking about transparency, so we know that people that, I mean, one of the instances, if you read the story, and I'm not gonna get too graphic, but there was an adult male teacher who allegedly went on a trip with high school girls and was rubbing suntan lotion on the tops of their breasts when they had,

Who does that?

Who in the right mind?

So I mean, doesn't the public have to know if this guy surrendered his teaching license?

Shouldn't there at least be the public right to know, hey, maybe don't hire this guy because he's got a problem, allegedly.

And then too, can I add something here?

Is that nobody, they should be having chaperones.

They shouldn't be sending girls

with a teacher like that, they should be having chaperones.

This whole thing does is fast.

But I'm up against the clock, but don't you think that Jill underly has a responsibility to answer questions publicly about this?

Well, I hope she does because this really needs to be open.

But I think we've got to get the facts here on what's going on.

And

thank you very much for covering it because that was very interesting to me.

And why does that school district let

I

appreciate it.

Thank you, Gene.

I really appreciate it.

Come on back.

We're going to change gears a bit.

We'll revisit this topic in hour number two.

Talk about Donald Trump, why he's crying for Argentina on the other side.

Don't cry for me Argentina The truth is I never left you All through my wild days My mad existence I kept my promise Don't keep your distance

Welcome back, keep it plain.

Welcome back to the town hall boss show on the Civic Media Radio.

I feel like, unfortunately, the windows don't open up.

Wouldn't it be great because I could be outside on the balcony and it's blaring the song.

And sing in the rain.

Yeah,

just like in the Madonna, the great Madonna thing.

Lady Gaga could nail this, by the way, if you want to do a remake.

Uh, welcome back to the town.

I'll show the civic media already that works.

Zombers on the tunes.

They're spending a little of Madonna.

Don't cry for me.

Argentina is 35 minutes past the hour of two o'clock.

Uh, also going to just to plug to tease ahead, as they say, uh, a political story blowing up today as well on a Trump nominee.

which is even a bridge too far for Wisconsin Republican Senator Ron Johnson.

Even Rojo said, no, probably can't support that.

We'll tell you what that's all about in a minute.

But first, and I hope our friends in the ag industry, we just got done at the Midwest Farm Report with Pam Yankee, Ben Jarbo and their great staff, as we do every day at the bottom of the hour.

I hope my friends in the ag industry, particularly the beef industry, nobody loves beef more than me.

Beef, it's what's for dinner.

Wisconsin Beef Council.

And right now, beef prices are historically high costs, high prices, which for a consumer, you know, a little difficult.

But for beef farmers, this is like, they struggle, they try to get by.

But you kind of live for markets like this once in a while when you kind of make up some of those moneys that you lost Great for Wisconsin beef farmers right now But I still owe my friends Curt and Thorsey for my portion of the steer we bought this year

I better get that taken care of quickly.

You gotta make good on that.

Yeah, I gotta make good.

I'm not gonna get more beef.

We went together.

We bought one of the great, the four-eighth auctions down at Green County.

We bought a quarter steer together and Hoasley Meats in, in Nouglares processed it.

You got Richland Locker, Richland Center.

You got Prem Meats in Spring Green.

I mean, you got all kinds of great independent lockers.

And that's where I recommend that you buy your beef, if you can.

Absolutely, Todd needs to go see a man about a steer That's

exactly right But here now I hope I hope you if you're a beef farmer if you're a supporter of local beef listen up Donald Trump was flying back on his Air Force one from Mar-a-Lago playing golf this weekend and

The reporters asked him about, it's up, it was 20, when we had Pam Yankee on the program a couple of weeks ago, it was 20.

Now Donald Trump wants to give Argentinian farmers a 40, a 40 billion dollar bailout to help Argentina.

He was asked about it on Air Force One.

The question is, what do you have to say to U.S.

farmers who feel that the deal is benefiting Argentina more than it is them?

Argentina is fighting for its life, young lady.

You don't know anything about it.

They're fighting for their life.

Nothing is benefiting Argentina.

They're fighting for their life.

You understand what that means?

They have no money.

They have no anything.

They're fighting so hard to survive.

If I can help them survive in a free world, I happen to like the president of Argentina.

I think he's trying to do the best he can.

But don't make it sound like they're doing great.

They are dying.

All right.

They're dying

He is very concerned about Argentinian farmers.

You understand I Think there's a lot of farmers in Wisconsin say I wish he felt that way about us just get rid of the tariffs will be fine We played this yesterday, but I want to play it again.

It's not that long Trump was then asked on the same trip over the weekend on Air Force one on Sunday about the beef about

About what's going on and here's his response

with soybeans in one Argentina.

You're you know, you're looking to do that deal with Argentina the bail swap so

Are we expecting a

beef deal?

I assume you're talking about beef, yeah.

To get beef prices down.

The only price we have that's high is beef, and we'll get that down.

And one of the things we're thinking about doing is beef from Argentina.

He thought it was about soybeans at first, and then changed it.

So he wants to help out.

In order to get beef prices down for the consumers in Wisconsin, he wants to bring in...

more Argentinian beef to flood the market with foreign food products to bring the prices down so that Wisconsin beef farmers get less.

Isn't that what the hat says, make Argentina great again?

Not exactly, but yeah, the A stands for America, but you're on the right track.

And by the way, the soybean deal, if you just get rid of the tariffs, then U.S.

farmers could sell their soybeans to China.

China's already done a backend deal with South American farmers, some of them in Argentina, by the way.

So Argentina's looking pretty good if you're a farmer in Argentina.

If you're a farmer in Wisconsin, not so much.

So here now, yesterday, posted on social media,

is the president of the Nebraska Farm Bureau.

Again, Farm Bureau, not exactly your left wing organization.

Farm Bureau, pretty conservative.

I mean, there's certainly Democrats involved in Farm Bureau, but this is the head, the president of the Nebraska Farm Bureau in response to Trump saying he wants to bail out farmers in Argentina and also flood the US markets with Argentinian beef.

Hello Ag friends.

Hopefully your fall is going well.

You know some days you feel like you just can't catch a break in agriculture but the cattle sector is one of the real bright spots here in the industry and certainly in Nebraska where we have a lot of momma cows.

But unfortunately we have administration that thinks that they need to lower the price of beef.

President Trump on Friday actually made a statement that said we should lower the price of a beef and ultimately that's a lower in the price of cattle.

That's not something we need to do.

I just want our members to know that Nebraska Farm Bureau is adamantly opposed to anything that would artificially lower the price of beef.

We have worked hard to get our cattle market where it is.

It's a sublime demand issue right now.

But quite frankly, we need this bright spot here in Nebraska.

So I have communicated with all of our federal delegation and let them know that we are opposed to any move that would artificially lower the price of beef cattle.

Uh, they have worked that up to the leadership already today.

And so stay tuned as we kind of follow this story.

Hopefully we can get this tamp down, but just want to make sure that you know that, uh, I'm doing everything that I can as your president of Nebraska Farm Bureau to ensure that our beef sector here in Nebraska and the country continues to thrive until next time.

So there you go.

There's the head of the Nebraska Farm Bureau saying politely.

Yeah.

President Trump.

You're screwing us over here.

You want to flood the the market here with foreign beef, which is only going to hurt our beef farmers in Nebraska and it'd be the same thing for beef farmers here in Wisconsin.

And just like we were talking about with the Jill Underly DPI story, which we're going to come back to here next hour, and you don't hear Democrats speaking out about this.

either elected Democrats or, uh, Devin Rebaker, the new chair of the Wisconsin Democratic Party.

I don't know, it might be nice to say we're very concerned about this and we urge Dr. Underly to, uh, sit before a committee hearing on Thursday to answer questions we have full confidence in her.

But no, nothing, just crickets.

By the same token,

The Wisconsin Farm Bureau Federation, it is a, I'll say a right-leaning organization, not hard right, but not like MAGA right, but there are more people in Farm Bureau that have more Republican-leaning tendencies than Democratic.

Again, not to say there aren't some Democrats who are members of Farm Bureau or some legislators who have been supportive of Farm Bureau, but based on my experience over the years, it tends to be more right-leaning.

I'm looking at their website right now, Wisconsin Farm Bureau.

Where is the press release from the Wisconsin Farm Bureau in basically what we just heard from the Nebraska Farm Bureau?

Nothing.

Crickets.

Where is Republican legislators in this state like Howard Markline and Tony Kurtz in Southwest Wisconsin?

Andre Jacques.

in Dorr County.

Where's the outrage from Republican Wisconsin legislators and press releases calling for Donald Trump not to flood the Wisconsin market with foreign beef?

Where are the press releases from Farm Bureau and Republican legislators in this state from Brian Arthur Schimming at the Wisconsin Republican Party?

calling on Trump to get rid of these tariffs that are hurting Wisconsin farmers.

Nothing.

Crickets.

855-752-4842.

If you want to weigh in, 855-752-4842.

Let's go to Charles in Milwaukee, listening on WAUK, Waukeshawn, Milwaukee.

Charles, thanks for listening.

We'll see.

Hey, good afternoon, Todd.

So I, yeah, I think sometimes he just talks.

to hear himself talk because he mentioned that, well, we're giving them the money because they're dying.

They are so basically saying that they're starving.

Well, I know in third world countries and places in Africa and that they're starving too.

But if I'm correct, didn't they take away money?

Right, USAID money,

yeah.

USA, right.

And Todd, I remember when I first heard this story about the $20 billion to Argentina and I read up on it.

I thought when I read up on it, it was basically this guy was doing horrible as the president.

And so they were going to give him this money to try to help build a muscle.

He looks good in an upcoming election.

Yeah, I mean, you would think.

So, yeah, I mean, it just makes no sense, right, Charles?

They're fighting against US interests on this, the Trump administration.

They're clearly not putting Wisconsin farmers, ag producers, or even consumers at the forefront.

But Todd, he only cares about himself.

At some point, his supporters, they will either realize it or they will sink in the boat with him.

He only cares about himself.

And like they always say, follow the money.

Yeah.

Nothing here will benefit him financially.

Right.

Well, it's always about him.

But look what he's doing to the White House right now.

tearing down the East Wing just to build his own ballroom for good sake.

Yeah.

Um, I don't, I, my wife told me, I'm like, what in the world?

She said, I don't know if this is real or not.

And yeah, it's, but you imagine Todd, what, what, what conservatives would be saying if Barack Obama would have get that.

Oh my gosh.

He would

have torn out part of my house for a ballroom.

Yeah.

They would have sweared down that he was a terrorist and they got to go in and get him.

I don't understand the silence.

Yeah, I'm so much silent.

I don't get it.

Either people either don't want to go against their own party.

They don't want to.

Everybody's tribal, right?

It's like, well, if they're on our side, we can't criticize it.

Democrats don't want to criticize Joe Underly.

Republicans don't want to criticize Donald Trump.

If they belong to our tribe, got to keep our mouths shut.

No, that's part of what's wrong with politics today

Yeah, people are being hurt by these yeah by people not saying anything

Appreciate the call Charles have a great day down there beautiful Milwaukee come back with more calls the other side eight five five seven five two four eight four two Know how in the White House you have the Dolly Madison room, but that's right apparently now a lot of people are saying

The new Trump room, a ballroom, will be called the Stormy Daniels Ballroom.

Ballroom?

Come on back!

Writers on the store.

Writers on the store.

Welcome back to the tolerable show on the

civic media.

We're

glad to have you along with us here on a Tuesday, October 21st, 2025.

Zombers on the board, spinning the tunes.

Talk a little bit about Donald Trump wanting to bail out Argentinian farmers because they're dying.

They're dying, Trump says.

What about Wisconsin farmers?

Many who will be forced out of business this year.

Either because of tariffs, because the inability to find workers, because they're leaving.

What about Wisconsin farmers?

855-752-4842.

Let's go quickly to Rick, listening in Waukesha, Vietnam, AUK.

Rick, I'm up against the clock.

If you can make it quick, go ahead, please.

Yeah, this is really interesting about this, Argentina.

You know, Texas and the oil industry are pretty close with the beef.

Where's the beef?

Have a good day.

Yeah, thanks.

Appreciate it, Rick.

Have a great day.

Thanks.

Bye-bye.

8-5-5-7-5-2-4-8-4-2.

8-5-5-7-5-2-4-8-4-2.

A couple minutes here before the top of the hour.

I want to get to this political story as well.

Zombers, is this on the topic?

Let's go quickly to beautiful Merrill, Wisconsin, to Cornell, listening on WXCO, out of beautiful Wausau.

We were just there last week.

Cornell is at Merrill.

Cornell, welcome to the program.

We'll see you.

Yeah, well, you're talking about the Argentina farmers, but I'm quite upset that, well, Trump showed that Zulinski, and he's not giving them any help.

But I just want to mention on the farmers Kailin Robertson made a documentary.

He's a 27 year old independent reporter in Ukraine on the front lines and He had this documentary.

It's on YouTube called the farmers of her son and They're just killing the farmers.

They want to plant they want to grow and Trump never

Condemned this, it's really a horrible situation out there.

And he made this documentary and we really have to help Ukraine.

The farmers on all of Ukraine because we thought the Budapest memorandum to protect Ukraine.

And I was out there at the rally, the No Kings rally.

It was a great turnout.

We had to even Captain America on a skateboard going down the road.

No, I he was about 61 and I Walked through the crowd with my posters and also I'm really upset with Trump because he should be helping Ukraine.

There's been 700 children killed 13,000 civilians killed in apartments and it's really quite upsetting that hope We call in for these Tom walk missiles.

He's refused the Tom walk missiles to

Right.

President Zelensky.

But I

appreciate the call at Cornell.

I'm against the clock, but I appreciate your call up there, beautiful Meryl.

Yeah, we haven't had time to get too deep into Ukraine, but you're absolutely right.

I agree that Zelensky was in Washington last week and Trump basically crapped on him and said you should settle with Putin now and let Putin keep all the land that he has now.

And it's disturbing to say the least.

We'll see what happens this next summit over in Europe, is that right?

Meanwhile, Argentinians are dying.

You have no idea

how bad it is,

Trump says.

That's what Trump says.

Yeah, absolutely.

All right.

While I get this quickly, we finally found someone Ron Johnson can no longer vote for, for a nominee.

This, according to Politico, who broke the story, Paul and Graza.

President Donald Trump's embattled nominee to lead the office of the special counsel told a group of fellow Republicans in a text chain the Martin Luther King Jr.

Holiday should quote be tossed into the seventh circle of hell on quote and said that he has quote-unquote a Nazi streak

according to a text chain viewed by political.

In Graza, who has a Senate confirmation scheduled for a hearing scheduled for Thursday, made the remarks in a chain with a half dozen Republican operatives and influencers, according to the chat.

quote MLK Junior was the 1960s George Floyd and his quote-unquote holiday should be ended and tossed into the seventh circle of hell where it belongs unquote.

In Grazel wrote in January of 2024.

Goes on to talk about more used a an Italian slur for black people which I will not repeat here on the air But says that these holidays honoring anybody other than whites every quote every single one needs to be eviscerated unquote Politico interviewed two people in the chat granted them immunity and after they expressed concern about personal and professional repercussions One retained the messages and showed the text chain in its entirety to Politico which independently verified the number listed on the

the chain belongs to Ingraza.

The person said he came to forward it because he wants to quote, the government to be staffed with experienced people who are taken seriously unquote.

The second person has since deleted the chain and didn't recall specifics about it, but did confirm the discussions took place.

Paul and Ron Johnson yesterday came out and said, nope, can't vote for that.

So congrats, congrats to.

U.S.

Senator Ron Johnson Wisconsin we finally found a red line something apparently Ron Johnson will not apparently when it's blatant in a text confirmed by political Ron Johnson so that's a bridge too far so far as a last check three hours ago or so Paul and Grosso is still scheduled to be voted on so as they say there's that

It's just it's a fire hose of information understands ours.

It really is.

It's just you know, we could do a half an hour on that, right?

We could.

There's a lot to talk about.

There's a lot.

There's a lot to talk about.

All right.

Coming up our two a Wisconsin fun fact for you also what's worse trying not to sneeze or

try not to yawn.

And at the bottom of the next hour, we will retake another look at this story on Wisconsin Department of Public Instruction Superintendent Jill Underly, the story by Danielle DeClosse, Enterprise and Investigator Reporter at the CapTimes, will be here with us.

The reporter will, and we'll talk about this more.

Don't go anywhere.

It's the Todd Allball Show for a Tuesday, October 21st, across Wisconsin on the Civic Media.

Already networked.

From the Civic Media World Headquarters in Madison, Wisconsin, it's the Todd Alba Show.

And now, pursuing truth wherever it may lead, here's your host, Todd Alba.

Across Wisconsin on the Civic Media Radio Network.

and streaming worldwide on the Civic Media app.

Good afternoon, everybody.

Todd Alba, along with Mr. Aaron Zommers, our producer and engineer on the board.

It is six minutes past the hour of three o'clock.

Welcome into the big show, hour number two on this Tuesday, October 21st, 2025.

It is a great day to be a Wisconsinite.

Glad to have you along at the World Headquarters here from the World Headquarters of Civic Media at the intersection of state,

and Fairchild Aaron Zahmer is great to have you here.

Good to be here.

It's always going to be a quick look again at the Sam Davidson Street Cam.

The rain has stopped, apparently, still overcast.

It's very, it's almost, it's Halloweeny out.

A little bit.

A little Halloweeny today.

A little windy, blowing in witches from the east.

Eerie out there, right?

Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely.

Uh, that's a nice day.

Nice day.

Glad to be along at the bottom of this hour.

Uh, Danielle Declos enterprise and investigator reporter at the cap times is going to be with us talking about her great reporting story from last week on department of public instruction and giving her an opportunity to talk about the story, the reporting.

but also Dr. Underly came out on Friday, basically attacking the reporter, the Cap Times, saying they did shoddy work.

So we'll see what Daniel has to say about that.

And again, I think there are two concerning things here.

A, the subject of this story, these allegations of grooming and sexual misconduct amongst people of public education, not just educators, but other folks,

and the fact that they can give up their license in exchange for not having the investigation continue, that's certainly tragic and the alleged victims tragic, but equally as disturbing to me is the apparent lack of transparency of the Department of Public Instruction and Dr. Underly.

And now we have this story from the Wisconsin Public Radio today that

They're also missing deadlines.

DPI is interviewing financial things for school districts across the state.

So I hope that Dr. Underly appears before the assembly committee on Thursday in person herself and doesn't send her flax.

By the way, a flax, I used to be one, so I know.

It's a spokesperson for a politician.

She better not send her flax to testify.

She better be there in person.

Because Wisconsin deserves the right to know.

So Danielle DeClos from CapTimes will be here at the bottom of the hour talking about that.

We have a what's worse for you, a couple of serious news headlines for right now at nine minutes past the hour of three o'clock time once again for Wisconsin Fun

Fact.

That's

right, it's time once again for today's Wisconsin Fun Fact.

On this day, October 21st, 1897, the Yerks Observatory was dedicated on the shores of Lake Geneva.

situated on a 77-acre park.

The world-renowned refracting telescope remains operational and offers the opportunity to look at something else other than fibs all summer long.

And that's how we play Wisconsin Fun Fact.

I'm really liking this segment.

That is a fun fact.

It's a fun fact.

It's a fun fact.

Quickly, a fun fact today happens to be my birthday today.

Happy birthday,

Todd.

Thank you.

I wasn't fishing for that, but yes.

I only mention it because it's a great excuse to read because normally I don't do a lot for my birthday, but tonight...

Some of my longest friends, Rob Wheat and Jeff Daniels and I are going, that's why I've got my Packer gear on today.

We are going to the great new film, No Packers, No Life.

All right?

And we're going to the nine o'clock show, because that's what they could get.

I said, can we still stay awake at nine o'clock?

So I may have to have some coffee before we go to the show tonight, but if you have not seen it,

Please look it out and see this film.

You can find more information.

No packers.

No life.com or Marcus theaters.com And I just texted our friend Sean Hannes for the co-producers of this film And he says they are continuing the following theaters for a second weekend in Bay Park Hollywood La Crosse North Shore Point Cinema Ridge and Valley Grand so Bay Park is in Green Bay

Point Cinema here in Madison, Hollywood in Valley Grand in Appleton, Ridge in New Berlin, North Shore in Mequon and La Crosse.

Not only are they continuing them, I hear there's actually some exciting news about this weekend's showings.

This weekend's showing?

Yeah.

Oh, is this news to you as well?

Yes, I don't know.

What are you talking about?

On Friday the 24th, they will have a showing with Mark Murphy there.

Really?

Where is this that?

So this is Bay Park Cinema Green Bay 6 30 p.m.

Special screening followed by a Q&A with Mark Murphy and the filmmakers.

All right.

Well, all of our listeners at WGBW.

I mean WISS.

I wish we still had listeners there, but no.

WISS.

Get to Green Bay.

Meet Mark.

He's a great guy.

Trigby Olson knows him kind of.

And what is that again?

That is, this Friday, the 24th, at the 6.30pm showing.

If you go to NotepackersNoLife.com, you can link directly to that showings tickets.

They're still available.

The Zomers, thank you very much.

Surprise me in the show.

There you go.

That's, that's, David New Berlin on the text line says, Jeff Daniels, the Jeff Daniels?

Great.

Yes, the Jeff Daniels.

Well, maybe not that jump, not the actor, but they share the same name.

Uh, Dave says, how many spins around the sun, Todd?

Oh, he never tells.

50 something.

No, I don't care.

56.

I passed the double nickels.

Now I'm on the downward side of 50, which, you know, doesn't feel great, but it's better than the alternative, right?

Better than they'll speak it here out.

Let me read this Kerr Kerr street from my ESPN.

He tweeted this out today.

I thought this was pretty good today Says please remember your job is the dream of the unemployed Your house is the dream of the homeless Your smile is the dream of the depressed Your health is the dream of those who are sick beautiful things happen when you distance yourself from negativity

find something to be grateful for.

That's

good

advice.

I thought that was great.

And so here I am.

I'm other than a salvage, whatever, what is it called?

A salivary gland stone.

Yes, other than a salivary gland stone, I'm feeling, I'm healthy and I'm getting to do what I love every day with great people.

So I got nothing to complain about at all.

Life is great.

Glad to be along with all of you.

All right, it's 14 past the hour of three.

Time once again for what's worse.

Let's

go.

Time once again, for what's worse, nothing can wait, no prize.

What are you involved in is your chance to have your voices heard across all 10 news talk and support stations on the Civic Media radio network.

All right, this is good.

Timely, Timely indeed, as Mike Lucas says, because Zombers has been sneezing like a, I don't know what, like a cat.

It's been

pretty crazy.

A cat in a room full of baking flour, I

don't know.

Or me in a room full of cats.

Or you in a room full of cats, yeah.

But it's that time of year.

It's allergy season.

Just don't take too much Claritin or you might end up with salivary gland stones.

Everything is a balance.

Everything is a balance.

All right, so the category today, what's worse?

Try not to sneeze or try not to yawn.

Try not to sneeze or try not to yawn.

855-752-4842, 855-752-4842, or you can text us on the old Civic Media app.

If you don't have it, download it today, your Apple or Android device.

Simply go to your app store and the little search bar, type in Civic.

C-I-V-I-C, media, it'll pop up, a cute little C-M logo.

Click on that.

Takes less than a minute.

It's free.

It's what our friend Gail King over at CBS calls a deal the civic media app What's worse try not to sneeze or try not to yawn when in Madison listening on WM DX Says trying not to sneeze is usually worse than trying not to yawn as sneezing tends to be more violent reaction requiring more uncomfortable suppressing effort that is a great take when I asked

That's a great take also for those of you watching the stream The picture for trying not to sneeze is a zebra How can it look yell over the place?

And then a woman who is mid-yawn and I will say looking at the picture of the yawning person makes me have to yawn Yes, and I have with the mic off already.

Have

you

really?

Yeah Well, I held it back.

You

know, I'm intrigued you're right I've been trained by the by the card by the the graphic for those watching on online

On the stream, uh, I don't, when I think about sneezing, I don't necessarily associate that or equate that with a zebra.

Neither do I. But apparently the people putting this together, a sneezing zebra, which I'm, all animals do, right?

We saw mammals, mammals sneeze.

I mean, I've heard a lot of weird.

Hey, you remember a

letterman used to have that, uh, sneezing monkey, which is like the, not an actual monkey on the set, but like this little, this little, uh,

What do you call like a Reese's monkey or something?

I did

not see that but that's

that's pretty good

All right, what's worse try not to sneeze or try not to yawn 8 5 5 7 5 2 4 8 4 2 8 5 5 7 5 2 4 8 4 2 while we wait for oh here Roger and Steven's point listening on the FHR beautiful Wisconsin Rapids says yawning is worse.

I like to sneeze

The louder, the better.

Now that's a person right after my mom's heart.

My grandmother, my maternal grandmother, my sister, even I, we can be very loud sneezers and just let it fly.

Scares people.

I am a much louder sneezer than I used to be because, you know, my dad always did like the exaggerated dad sneeze like that.

Just like as loud as possible.

And at one point I mimics that and now I partially do it.

Just as my normal sneeze

What's worse trying not to sneeze or trying not to yawn 8 5 5 7 5 2 4 8 4 2 PJ watching on YouTube says trying not to sneeze Especially as a man in unfortunate situations such as while using the restroom That can that can be devastating

it can

David New Berlin

I can't think of another option.

Try not to yawn is worse.

Okay, all right, very good.

By the way, a couple of, because I guess we can do it after the next break here, because I got a couple of newsy things we'll get to before

the bottom.

What's worse for you?

What's the worst for me?

It depends, but in terms of like, I'm thinking of like trying to stop it, right?

I would say overall,

Try not to sneeze is worse than try not to you because I think

you

can stifle a yon.

You can kind of keep talking like that

when

you're

gonna be on all right Come on back.

We have a new entry in the race for Wisconsin attorney general and a new category of ridiculousness dingbat Republican politics on the other side

Having fun doing it.

Welcome back to the title of our show on the Civic Media Ready Network.

22 now, past the hour of three o'clock on Tuesday, October 21st, 2025.

Glad to have you along.

Let's go to the phone lines here finishing up.

What's worse for today?

What's worse, trying not to sneeze or trying not to yawn?

855-752-4842.

855-752-4842.

Ollie in the Northwoods.

Call it in.

Ollie.

Trying not to sneeze or trying not to yawn?

What's worse?

Oh, trying not to sneeze.

Because when you get to be a person of a certain age, uh, you might have a little extra problem.

Right?

Right?

Yeah.

And my dad had a chocolate sneeze.

Do you know what that is?

I do not.

Please explain.

I can guess.

What is it?

Where he used to go.

Hershey!

That's

good Ali I like that yeah people do like they make certain sounds or you know things people sneezes are as unique as laughter right

Yes,

they are, and it's wonderful, isn't

it?

It

is, it really is.

Ollie, thanks so much for a great day.

Let's go quickly to Jack in Merrimack.

Jack, listening on WMDX, Jack, what's worse, trying not to yawn or trying not to sneeze?

Well, I would say it's worse to try not to sneeze, but it is harder.

That I wouldn't admit.

If you, you know, if you don't try not to sneeze and you sneeze and you're sick and you're spreading stuff around, so that's definitely not the best.

Um, I had a, if you've got a minute, I, uh, I'm more serious subject.

Okay.

Uh,

regarding the Joenderly thing, I agree 100% with you that, uh, she should.

up here at a committee in the legislature, she should at least give her explanation of what's happening.

If, however, there is a cover-up that involves the DPI, she should be out immediately.

Now, having said that, I was vice president of a teachers union for about eight years, and I investigated

several incidents like this, understand that these are accusations, these 200.

They are not necessarily proven.

And in fact, one of those things I investigated, and I won't go into the detail, but it turned out to be completely false, which can permanently damage a teacher's reputation.

The other thing I want to say is this.

And I've lost count of the exact number, but we're talking about 200, and they're not all teachers, first of all.

Some are support staff.

And the second thing is that there are tens of thousands of ethical teachers in the state of Wisconsin.

100% I was one for I was one for 40 some odd years the problem with something like this though is if it smells like a cover-up then it looks bad for every teacher and that's another reason why underlies gotta answer for this

Jack I'm 100% with you as people regular you included

You know I come from a family of educators and you're 100% right.

The lack of underling coming forward and answering candidly only gives fuel to the fire, the political fire, for Robin Voss and his ilk to try to take a nugget of truth and then compound this with misinformation.

And it's a slap in the face to the vast majority, the overwhelming majority of educators in the state who are doing a great job.

And I would think that if I'm Joe Underly, I would want to come and have the light of day shined on this, answer every question, don't withhold anything, and be transparent to protect the very industry and the people that I'm elected to serve.

Yeah, that's absolutely the case.

She's got to definitely do something about this.

And like I said, if there is truly a cover-up involved,

She should be gone.

Period.

Yeah.

No, I agree.

A hundred percent.

Thanks, Jack.

I appreciate the call very quickly.

Some quick headlines for you.

Milwaukee Journal sent no a rematch of the twenty twenty two race for attorney general is shaping up in Wisconsin.

Fond du Lac County District Attorney Eric Tony announced he will again challenge incumbent attorney general Josh Call a Democrat.

Call narrowly beat Tony in the race four years ago, since then the opponents made a joint plea for more funding for state crime evidence labs.

Call has decided to seek re-election as attorney general rather than run for governor.

So rematch there in the internal attorney general's race coming up.

And this from Hope Karnaugh in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel.

A group of Republicans, the state capital, introduced several bills aimed at expanding access to firearms, including allowing concealed carry without a license and strengthening language around the right to bear arms sales in the state constitution.

Get this, our old friend, Andre Jacques Bloch-Chilac.

State Senator Andre Jacques from New Franken.

Not New Franklin, but New Franken.

And state representative...

Chans Green from Grandview proposed eliminating permit requirements for firearm owners who want to carry guns in a concealed fashion known to supporters as constitutional carry under the bill quote unquote law abiding citizens would not need a license to carry a concealed firearm in public To quote the late great Mel Sharples

from Alice.

Hey, dingy.

I mean, this is this is backcrab crazy.

I mean, there is there's off your nut and then there's off your nut.

But should we expect anything less from our old friend Andre Jacques, who tried to launch his state Senate campaign on a bill about bestiality?

Great to see Andre Jacques back in the news.

Trying to stop bestiality and letting people carry guns wherever they want without a permit.

That's from the crazy section.

Come on back.

We'll have the sanity after this.

Capital Times reporter Daniel DeClos right here talking about DPI on the other side.

It's the all ball show executive media.

Welcome back to the Toutalball show on the Civic Media rating network.

35 minutes now, past the hour of three o'clock on this Tuesday, October 21st, 2025.

Erin Zommer is on the board.

Very thankful and very glad that we can have our next guest with us.

She is the, an enterprise investigative reporter at the Capitol Times.

Danielle DeClo joins us via StreamYard right now.

Danielle, welcome to the show and thank you very much for being here.

Thank you so much for having me.

It is our pleasure before we get into this really important story on DPI that you broke last Friday.

It is getting and well deserved.

A lot of play, a lot of attention, as I think it should.

But before we get into the actual story, we'll do what we always do with someone who is new to our program.

Danielle, tell us a little bit about yourself, where you grew up, and how you got into journalism.

Yeah, I grew up in Anchorage, Alaska, actually.

So

not

near Wisconsin.

Yes.

So I do love the Wisconsin cool weather.

That's very familiar to me.

And really, I got my start in journalism in my high school journalism class and went to the University of Missouri School of Journalism from there and then started reporting here in Wisconsin, covering specifically education in Green Bay.

And then recently, about a year ago, I started at the cap time.

so we focused on investigative and government accountability work.

Wow.

Well, we could talk for a half an hour on just what you said there.

Never been to Alaska.

I've been fascinated by it.

We'd love to go sometime.

And anybody who knows, I was a comm major, not a journalism.

They didn't have a J school at Plattville, but anybody who knows anything about journalism, Missouri is one of the top programs in the entire country and turns out great reporters like yourself.

So, so congratulations.

And so how long have you been at the Capitol?

times.

Just a little over a year.

So I started last June and really been enjoying working here.

Well, that's fantastic.

Welcome to Wisconsin, even though you've been here for for a while.

Let's get it.

And I've given my opinions on this in the first hour, a little bit yet this last hour.

on this story, you're not here for opinion and analysis.

You're a straight line reporter.

You do it very well.

So I wanted to bring you on, first of all, to talk about the story that you wrote.

And then if we have time, I want to give you an opportunity.

Dr. Underly put out a statement on Friday in response to what you had written.

And I want to give you an opportunity to speak to that if you wish.

But first of all,

Let's get into this story and what led you to start that was a year long investigation, right?

What led you to do this with the Department of Public Instruction?

Right, so this reporting journey actually started a few years ago for me when I covered a case in Green Bay.

And when I was doing that reporting, I realized it was more than just

one teacher or one school, I wanted to know how often this was happening across the state of Wisconsin.

And so when I got to the cap times, I set out to answer that question.

And so we went to the Department of Public Instruction to see how often they're investigating educators for sexual misconduct and grooming accusations.

And that's kind of how this reporting started out.

And our reporting found that at least 44% of the investigations

conducted by the department since 2018 through 2023 had to do with accusations of sexual misconduct or grooming.

And we say at least because there were about a fifth of those cases that we weren't able to determine the nature of the misconduct that was investigated.

So as advocates and researchers said, it's likely an

undercount.

I've had other people ask me this.

I said, hey, I'll ask the reporter.

What led you to have that time period from 2018 to last year?

How did you pick that timeframe?

Yeah, so the records that the Department of Public Instruction keeps to track.

these cases go back to 2018 is when they're like tracking sheet started they obviously have records that go further back than that but their summative internal records on case tracking started in 2018 so that was a natural starting point for us and then through 2023 is really when

We requested the records.

That's how far it went at the time.

And so we reviewed those cases.

And obviously a lot of the cases from 2024, when we were working on this investigation, were open.

And so there wasn't a lot of information available about those.

Well, I'll make sure that I'm getting it right.

And you keep me honest.

Out of the 200 plus people that you found in your investigation,

A, not all of these are what we consider, quote unquote, teachers.

They were support staff, other people within, that were working in school districts, correct?

Correct.

So the Department of Public Instruction oversees educator licenses, so it's not just teachers, they also do teachers' aides, substitutes, principals, superintendents.

And so those investigations covered a wide range of educators.

And second, the second question is that, again, keep me honest,

You're not saying, or maybe you are, but as I read this story, these are allegations in some cases that didn't go to criminal investigation, and I'll use the term deal, that's Todd terms, that essentially there was agreement, maybe that's a better term.

There was agreement on some of these cases where there were allegations that the educator or the support person was able to give up their license in exchange for having

any sort of investigation continued even before it got to the potential criminal level of a police investigation, true or not.

So to be very clear, we did not look into the criminal side of these investigations.

This is solely what the Department of Public Instruction was investigating for licensure.

So we were not exploring how far, what stages of criminal.

investigations that these cases went to some of these cases were a result of people being criminally charged and so there was some of that but this really focused on the Department of Public Instruction's own investigations and yes you are correct that they are allegations they started with complaints and reports and these are investigations that the department opened after receiving these reports and you are correct that in the

The most common way that an educator loses their license in the state of Wisconsin is by voluntarily surrendering it.

And that means that they give up their license and it wasn't revoked by the state.

And in those cases, the investigation is closed and the Department of Public Construction offers the opportunity at the onset of every investigation for an educator to surrender their license immediately and close the investigation.

And the CapTimes found that more than 80 of the educator sexual misconduct and grooming investigations had results like that, where they surrendered their license.

And the story, again, we're talking with Danielle DeClo, The Enterprise, and investigative reporter at The Capital Times.

You can find her work online and, of course, in print as well when it came out.

But capitaltimes, or captimes.com, is where you could find this story.

It was first published last week on October 15th.

I would encourage everyone.

It's a long story.

It's a tough read, I'll be honest, because, and I think appropriately so, you include details, I would say as a reader, I think it unfortunately drives home the severity of these allegations, or in some cases where there were criminal charges.

I think it puts to context how heavy this is.

And what I found, and for me, Danielle, what I just said,

That's first and foremost the alleged victims, certainly first and foremost the most important thing that came out for me and most concerning point.

But a close second is the fact, and you write in this story, that you asked the superintendent of public instruction, Jill Underly, to be interviewed, and she declined.

And she had her spokesperson do this.

And I think that, to me,

And someone who also remembers that she did not want to debate her opponents in the election for a reelection, the campaign for reelection in the spring, she used to come on this program.

Dr. Underly did.

She quit coming on about two years ago.

She doesn't want to come on other shows or this show on this network.

And now she doesn't want to talk to a reporter.

The lack of transparency, Danielle, to me, is disturbing.

As a reporter who did this story,

Was that an obstacle for you to give the reader full context when one of the people isn't willing to talk?

I always want to talk with the subjects of my reporting, right?

I always want to hear their perspectives.

I think it's really important.

That's why reporters ask for interviews, right?

We ask for interviews because we want to be able to ask follow-up questions.

We want to have in-depth conversations.

We want to understand their perspectives.

So it was disappointing not to get an interview with Dr. Underleap before publication.

And I also did not get an interview with their head or former head now of...

the Office of Legal Services, which oversees the misconduct investigations.

I would have appreciated that to get more detail as well.

So always welcome the opportunity to interview people who are featured in my reporting.

You write in the story here, quote, underly-declined request for an interview discussing the Department of Public Instruction's investigation would create, quote, unquote, conflict of interest since underly overseas educated licenses according to our spokesperson.

I just

I mean, you're a true reporter.

You also, I mean, I know you're not a lawyer, but good reporters also know the law.

I don't see the conflict of interest here.

That's what Therese Boak's person said.

So we take her word for it and reported that we asked for an interview, and that was her reason for declining.

Let's speak, again, Danielle DeClos, Enterprise Investigative Reporter at the Cap Times.

great reporting, disturbing report, hard reporting, but important reporting on the Department of Public Instruction.

I think for me, again, as a reader, Danielle, the fact that you got this correct or incorrect through an open records request.

Now, it doesn't necessarily take an open records request to get this information.

Had you just asked at first, and they said, well, no, you gotta file open records request.

What was the process to get this information?

So I did file an open records request to get this information.

That's typically

how

I Yeah,

that's

typically how I go about things and just get that process going because sometimes it can take a while and so we got these records

specifically what we filed for was any internal like tracking documents they had on their investigations throughout the year.

So they provided us a spreadsheet that we talked about earlier that went back to 2018 that had information about their cases that they had conducted such as you know the date that the investigation was opened and things like that and then they also provided a document that had

case notes and summaries of the investigations from about 2019 through part of 2022 and so we relied heavily on those records because they're the sole summative internal tracking documents of the investigations conducted at the Department of Public Instruction and so we went through by hand twice and looked at all of the investigations we reviewed more than 450 and facing off of the department's own internal misconduct

like definitions, whether it's like physical assault or, you know, maybe discriminatory comments and things like that, we started to categorize the conduct under investigation to try to get the answer to that question, right?

How often is this happening in the state of Wisconsin?

And so we went through and coded those.

And as, you know, I mentioned that 44% had to do with accusations of sexual misconduct or grooming, but for about 100 cases, there was not enough detail in those records for us to be able to determine or categorize the conduct that was being investigated.

And Daniel, one of the things, again, as someone who comes from a family of educators, I'm only goofballed and my family did not go into that.

The vast majority of my opinion of educators in the state of Wisconsin are fantastic.

And I think the lack of transparency on the DPI side to what you just said, there might have been false accusations and these people were cleared.

And the lack of transparency.

in my opinion, only does harm to all the great educators out there.

And I would think as a reporter, that also had to be frustrating to really have to kind of, my word, fight for that information.

Yeah, I mean, as a reporter, I'm always going to advocate for more transparency and access to information because it obviously makes my job easier and reporting what's going on a lot easier.

And something that we did try to do is find out

If we wanted an individual case file, how long would that take?

And so we asked for 10 of those in April, and it took until September, over four months before we got those 10 files back.

We're going to come back and talk more with Danielle DeClosse, Enterprise Investigator reporter at the CapTimes on this story, and what Dr. Underly said after the report came out.

That more is the all ball show on Civic Media's radio

network.

Welcome back to the title ball show on the civic media radio network where it is now eight minutes before the hour of four o'clock on the top of the hour ABC or CBS News depending on which fire 10 civic media stations you're listening to across the state and then it'll be a weather update sports with our great sports reporter Mike Clemens talking about our very own Green Bay Packers I'm going to see the film tonight no Packers no life and then none of the district of the Maggie Dawn show from four until six followed by

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Right now, we are talking to the Enterprise Investigator reporter at the Capitol Times, Danielle DeClo.

DeClo, Todd.

That is the way you say the name.

I apologize, Danielle.

Names are important.

I wrote it down and I still had it wrong.

I apologize for that.

But it's great to have you here with us.

She wrote this very, very important piece at the Capitol Times.

You can find it at CAP.

times.com dealing with over 200 teacher sexual misconduct and grooming cases, the Department of Public Instruction, not all what we might call quote unquote teachers, but support staff and other folks as well.

And the fact that DPI has as I'll summarize you, Daniel, you tell me if it's fair or not, but it's difficult to find these records in some cases.

And then to your point, you asked for these and took months to get back to you.

And I think there's this a part that I think some people will say, you know, it's sensationalistic.

This subject has been sensationalized in politics, which I disagree with.

It's a very serious subject.

And to me, it's about transparency and the lack thereof about Dr. Underly and the Department of Public Instruction.

Yeah, this is a very serious topic and with the researchers and advocates I spoke with you know who have been dedicating

their lives to looking into educator sexual misconduct and grooming.

You know, this is very serious and it's widespread across the country.

And yeah, it does.

The reporting really came down to transparency and access to this information.

As you mentioned, Todd, you know, the CapTimes did submit for records requests and one particular request where we asked for 10 educator investigation files, just specific educators to see how long would it take to get those 10 files.

And it took over four months.

And to put that into perspective,

the Department of Public Instruction on average conducts 113 investigations a year.

So 10 case files is less than 10% of their annual caseload.

So in terms, and then we also put out a request in July for about a hundred case files to fill the gap on some of the unknown conduct that we had reported and we still have not received back those records.

I know there's an assembly hearing coming up on Thursday where they're asking Dr. Underly to appear to address some of the things brought up in your article.

Is there any word whether Dr. Underly will appear in person?

I have not heard whether she's going to appear in person.

So my plan is to go myself in person and see who's there and listen and I'm interested to see where it goes.

To your point earlier, you asked Dr. Underly.

to be interviewed for this article.

Before it was published, she declined.

She had her spokesperson talk to you, and then after it came out, our colleague, Jay Matt, Eric Gregg Bach, and Dan Schaefer talked about it on their show last week when it came out.

We talked about it on this show.

And then lo and behold, Dr. Underly puts out a letter in which she attacked you.

and the Capitol Times want to give you an opportunity to address a couple of these things in her letter.

She says, quote, the DPI investigates every allegation of educator misconduct with the highest level of seriousness and effort.

And then skipping down, quote, this article fails to reflect that reality.

Comments?

The cap time stands by its reporting.

We spent a year investigating this.

As you mentioned, we asked Dr. Underly for an interview prior to publication.

She declined and since she released her statement.

We've extended another invitation for an interview with us so she can provide her perspectives and she has yet to respond to

that invitation.

Yeah, and that actually was highlighted in our article that you can look up the status of an educator's license What is not available on that public lookup is why an educator lost their license or surrendered their license and the researchers and advocates I spoke with said the why is really important and transparency on that is important because you don't need a teaching license for other jobs that involve kids you can work as let's say a private

summer camp counselor.

You could be a coach for a private rec league, and that doesn't require you to have a teaching license.

And so the advocates and researchers I spoke with raised concern about the lack of easily accessible information.

You'd have to file a records request and wait for that to be released for an individual educator to figure out why they lost their credentials.

And finally, there's more to this letter, but to the last while I'll bring up Dr. Underly says her letter from Friday.

Voluntary surrender often spares victims, many of who are minors from

traumatization over lengthy investigations, unquote.

Well, first to you.

Yeah, I mean, I would have loved to hear that from her in an interview.

The types of things.

Yeah.

I mean, honestly, that's the type of thing that I would love to have heard from her.

And yeah, that's a great point.

And, you know, this is just the first part of the CapTimes reporting.

This is just story one, part two comes out tomorrow.

We're going to have subsequent stories coming out.

And so this is really just the first installment of this reporting.