How Will AI Data Centers Impact Wisconsin? (Hour 1)

From the Civic Media World Headquarters in Madison, Wisconsin, it's the Todd Alba Show.

And now, pursuing truth wherever it may lead, here's your host, Todd Alba.

Across Wisconsin on the Civic Media Radio Network.

and streaming worldwide on the Civic Media app.

Good afternoon, everybody.

Todd Albault along Mr. Aaron Zommers, our producer and engineer.

It is six minutes past the hour of two o'clock on this Thursday, September 4th, 2025.

It is a great day to be a Wisconsinite.

Welcome in, everyone, partly cloudy skies here at the old World Headquarters of Civic Media in downtown Madison on State Street.

Zommers, it's cool.

It's fall-like.

follows in the air.

It is, and I'm here for it.

I know you are.

I mean, it is my natural, my favorite time of year.

As we talked yesterday, I would prefer a couple more weeks of summer-like weather before it turns fallish in the air, but I'm gonna get that.

It sounds like temperatures are gonna recover.

over the weekend by Sunday highs in the upper 70s over much of Wisconsin.

I know if our listeners up north, say in Hayward area and kind of points west, probably parts east there, a little bit of a little bit of frost warnings last night on, yeah, temperatures in the mid 30s last night or early this morning for loads.

So follow us upon us, get used to it.

Another sign that follows upon us, the NFL kicks off tonight on, I believe, is it NBC?

I don't know, we'll find

out.

I don't know, it's so confusing now because it seems.

Well,

lots of streaming, lots of over the air.

Yeah, I know the Eagles are playing, so we'll talk a little bit about that in our second half hour, perhaps.

Of course, the Green Bay Packers kick off this Sunday against the Detroit Lions, watching some national and listening to some national shows.

Last night Rich Eisen and some other people are a couple of people say the Packers are gonna win the NFC North But many people still pick in the Lions to win the NFC North this year So a really key and important game for the Packers coming up on Sunday You can hear the game on many of our civic media radio network stations starting at 1 o'clock on WRCL Richland Center

WCQM and Lovely Park Falls, WRJN and Racine Kenosha, our brand new Packer affiliate, W-A-U-H in beautiful Wattoma.

So starting at one o'clock with a pregame show, I think kickoff is at 3 p.m.

with Wayne Larravi and The Rock right here on the Packer radio network.

So cannot wait for that.

So we'll talk about that a little bit later in the show.

We have a What's Worse for You in terms of gasoline.

I slipped up and I let the cat out of the bag yesterday.

But we'll talk in hour number two, regular gas versus premium gas.

What's worse?

And I'm very excited at the bottom of this hour or right after the Farm News update with Midwest Farm Report and Pam Yonkey and her staff, Amy Berio from Clean Wisconsin, who has been on this program before she is coming back because we're going to talk about something that's really, really important.

And my opinion has been really, really under-reported.

Oh,

yeah.

Or maybe it's just that the reporting has been there, but a lot of us haven't paid attention.

There's just so much else.

There's so much news.

And there is.

There is a lot of news out there.

But Amy is here to talk about, so here's the deal.

And we're going to play a cut from our friend and colleague.

I guess we can say that because the Cripes cast with Charlie Barons appears on this network every weekend, Saturday and Sunday mornings, right, summers or afternoon?

At noon, yeah.

At noon.

At noon with Charlie Barons.

He put out, and Charlie usually does the, uh, the manage to walk minute and, you know, tell your folks, I says hi and that kind of, and it's hilarious.

But he took a minute on Instagram last week to talk about these data centers.

And of course, everybody with their devices now on their phones.

We got more data.

Well, that can't just happen.

There have to be data centers that make it happen.

And the energy they use and the water they use is incredible.

And it's happening right here in Wisconsin.

And Amy's going to be here to explain why that means a threat to Wisconsin waterways.

Well, it's less for our phones and more for AI.

because artificial intelligence uses a ridiculous amount of computing power.

But we

use power

AI on our phones to

do a

certain degree.

Amy is going to be here at the bottom of the hour to go through that.

Really hope you stay tuned because it is really important and we all need myself included need to be educated and pay attention to that.

But here is why I want to start out in Washington, D.C.

I talked to you a couple of days ago about my Labor Day weekend last Friday.

went into my, see my general physician, my GP, as they say.

And I'm sure you'll all be happy to know that my general physician happens to be a three star general.

So he's, uh, Dr. Don Baca is working on his fourth star this year, but I wanted to see my three star general physician on Friday for my annual physical.

Turns out everything is pretty hunky dory all in all.

No major problems.

Thank goodness.

I had my vaccinations for a pneumococcal pneumonia.

And a shingles now I had shingles years ago at a very young age relatively speaking around 30 years old But you still need to get when you get to my age now my early fit well mid 50s.

Let's be honest at 55.

I'm no longer early Time to get the the shingles vaccine Well, I had my first one a few months ago went for the second and it knocked me for a loop was not pleasant But now actually today I feel fantastic if you want to know the truth

And so vaccines and vaccinations and immunizations are really, really important.

Well, overnight, Ronnie DeSantis, Republican governor of Florida, the Sunshine State, as they say, there will be no sunshine for the children of Florida.

As DeSantis and Florida Health, if you can call it that, announced they will no longer in Florida require certain vaccine immunization for kids going to public schools in Florida.

Florida.

Timely, timely indeed, as Mike Lucas says, because today out in Washington DC, the Secretary of Health and Human Services, RFK Junior, was scheduled already to appear before Congress.

And things have gotten testy out there in Congress.

This headline from CNN, GOP Senator is deeply concerned about RFK Junior's vaccine stance.

How many times have we heard from my former party?

They're very concerned They're very concerned But nothing seems to get done about it Well, I don't know maybe this time There's hope We're gonna start this this clip here.

This is fresh off the presses.

This is Louisiana United States Senator a Republican Bill Cassidy's line of questioning pretty clever

When he pressed Secretary Kennedy on how he can praise Donald Trump for Operation Warp Speed, the project that got the COVID vaccines going, which I give him credit for that, the administration.

Of course, Dr. Fauci had to edit that up, but still, it happened under Trump's watch.

So how can Kennedy praise Trump for Operation Warp Speed while at the same time denigrating

vaccines.

Here is part of the exchange from Senator Bill Kennedy, Republican of Louisiana.

And our Cassidy.

Thank you.

Bill Cassidy, Republican of Louisiana and Secretary Kennedy of HHS.

Senator

Cassidy.

Thank you.

I'll try and restore a little comb here.

And I'm approaching this as a doctor, not as a senator.

I am concerned about children's health, seniors health, all of our health.

And I applaud you for joining the president and a call for radical transparency.

Thank you for that.

I said yesterday, I believe it, that President Trump deserves a Nobel Prize for Operation Warp Speed.

If he had been President Obama, he would have gotten it.

But because of Operation Warp Speed, forcing the federal government to come to a vaccine development within 10 months when others said it couldn't be done, we saved millions of lives globally, trillions of dollars, we reopened economies, an incredible accomplishment.

Mr. Secretary, do you agree with me that the President deserves a Nobel Prize for Operation Warp Speed?

Yeah, absolutely,

Senator.

That sounds

phenomenal.

Let me ask you, but you just told Senator Bennett

But the COVID vaccine killed more people than COVID.

Wait.

That was a statement.

I did not say that.

OK.

Then let me ask, because you also... Senator, I just want to make clear.

I cannot say that.

Well, we'll check the record.

That's the question of fact.

He actually did.

You also said that you were also as lead attorney for the Children's Health Defense.

You engaged in multiple lawsuits attempting to restrict access to the COVID vaccine.

Again, it surprises me that you think so highly of operation warp speed when as an attorney, you attempted to restrict access.

Let's stop right there.

Let's stop right there.

It's almost just for a second.

This is a masterclass.

I'm not sure if Senator Cassidy ever took speech or debate classes or forensics.

He is, I should have stated as well, he is an MD.

He is a medical doctor.

Senator Cassidy.

And he voted, of course, to confirm Kennedy as HHS Secretary.

But this is how it's done.

Whether you agree with Cassidy or not, this is how it's done.

He looped Kennedy in and said, look, I think that Trump deserves the Nobel Prize for Operation Award Speed when you agree.

And Kennedy, with his steroid-ruined voice, said, well, yes, yes, of course,

I

agree.

So he got him on the hook, and then he says, here's what you, but now you just said that more people died from the COVID vaccine than COVID, right?

Well,

I

never said

that.

He did.

I saw it earlier.

And so Cassidy, because the time is limited, says, look, we go back and check the record, but fine.

So he's looping him in and putting Kennedy in a box.

This is how it's done.

Pick it up with Senator Cassidy and Secretary Kennedy.

I'm

happy to explain why.

I have three minutes and 30 seconds left.

It also surprises me because you've canceled, or HHS did, but apparently under your direction, $500 million in contracts using the mRNA vaccine platform that was critical to Operation Warp Speed.

Again, an accomplishment that I think President Trump should get a Nobel Prize for.

You canceled 500 million in contracts.

Now, I grew up in a middle-class family, so $500 million seems to cancel.

It seems like an incredible waste of money.

But it also seems like a commentary upon what the president was attempting, what the president did in Operation Warp Speed, which is to create a platform by which to create vaccines.

So this just seems inconsistent that you would agree with me the president deserves tremendous amount of credit for this.

Is this a question, Senator Cassidy, or is this a speech that you don't want me to answer?

Because I don't want to answer that question.

Please, please.

If it's a question.

But be tight, please.

First of all, the reason that Operation Warp Speed was genius is it did something nobody had ever done.

I don't think any president but President Trump could do it.

it got the vaccine to mark that was perfectly matched to the virus at that time when it was badly needed because there was low natural immunity and there were people getting very badly injured by COVID.

And then, but he was also, it was also brought in therapeutics like hydroxychloroquine and ivermethin and protocols for treatments and there were no mandates.

And then- Okay, I have another question.

So please about that.

Let's stop right

there.

Let's stop right there.

Stop versus for a second.

Because I want to get this in.

This is important.

I don't want to just take clips and say, oh, Todd chopped it up to make it sound like what he wants out there.

This is really good.

And again, I don't care that Cassidy happens to be a Republican.

I don't care that he is pro-Trump.

What I care about is he is putting Kennedy in a box like I have not seen done very well before.

He got Kennedy to admit that Operation Warp Speed during COVID was genius.

He, Kennedy, of course, can't defend why he is against vaccines now.

And he gets Kennedy out there on the record, saying, well, yeah, Operation Warp Spade is great, but, you know, that's not just what we did.

There was Iver Becklin, and people were putting tubes of light up their button.

We didn't say that, but that's essentially what he said.

You can't have it both ways, Mr. Kennedy.

Come on back.

More after this, we'll pick up the rest of the conversation and also set things up for data centers, why they are dangerous according to Charlie Barron.

You heard that right.

Come on back.

Welcome

back to the title show of the Pacific Media Radio Network.

It is now 22 past the hour or two o'clock on Thursday, September 4th, summers on the board.

While you're back, a very important issue that's going on right now out in Washington, DC, this hearing of the Health and Human Services Secretary.

RFK Junior, not on the stand, but appearing before the Senate committee right now and being grilled by Republicans, Democrats alike.

This comes on the heels overnight of Florida.

Rhonda Santis, his state, saying that they will no longer require school kids to get immunizations to be admitted to schools in Florida, which is why I played that song.

Yes, it's dangerous.

And here now, I want to finish this conversation up because Bill Kennedy, Senator Bill Kennedy of Louisiana, our Republican... Bill Cassidy.

Why do I keep saying that?

Because it's Cassidy Kennedy.

Thank you.

Bill Cassidy, Republican of Louisiana, who is a medical doctor, is questioning Secretary Kennedy and got him to admit that yes...

What Trump did, or the administration, during COVID to have Operation Warp Speed, which helped us get to a COVID vaccine, was great.

And again, I don't care whether I, I don't agree with this, but it's not important right now.

Cassidy asked Kennedy, do you think, I think that Trump should get a Nobel Prize, he said.

Should you?

For that, yes.

So he baits Kennedy into saying the Operation Warp Speed was Nobel Prize worthy.

And then he says, well, why can't you then, you know, why are you denigrating vaccinations and vaccines now?

And Kennedy is flailing.

Let's go back.

Want to pick this last minute or so up so that nobody can say, I didn't play the whole thing.

Here is Senator Cassidy and Secretary Kennedy.

Against President Biden's mandates.

Let me go on because I have limited time Mr. Secretary.

I'm sorry.

You've called for and rightly so that we should restrict participation in agencies for those with conflict of interest.

I would like to submit for the record a evaluation of the conflict of interest of those who are on the ASIP and the vaccines related biologic products advisory board.

It was not 97% as alleged rather was 6.9% and it was 1.2% I think for the other panel.

Without objection.

Now, I am concerned, though, because many of those whom you have nominated for the ACIP

Board, excuse me, excuse me,

can I have my time back?

Yes.

What I am concerned about is that many of those whom you've nominated for ACIP have received revenue as serving as

expert witnesses for plaintiff's attorneys.

So this

is getting off.

Let's end it.

There's offers just because it's starting to get off for a little bit of a different subject.

But I want to make sure that nobody said, oh, I cut it off.

And Kennedy said something else.

So you didn't play it.

You heard that entire exchange.

And Kennedy had no comeback for saying, yeah, I believed in vaccinations when it was operational warp speed under Trump for COVID, but I don't believe in him now.

Good questioning whether you agree with him or not good questioning by Cassidy Mark, can you prayer to sack mark?

Can you get in what you need to say in 30 seconds?

Well, actually a Nobel Prize was awarded for for the vaccine or the research leading to the vaccine was in 2023 was Catalan Carriaco and Drew Weisman actually received a Nobel Prize for the mRNA research that actually led to the

COVID vaccine.

And let's remember WarpSpeak, we were just joining the rest of the world in that program.

I understand, given Donald Trump a handsy to, you know, stoking his ego to give him a noble prize.

But I mean, and this and trapping Kennedy and that, but I mean that it's a little annoying that the damage that Trump is doing to science.

No, I get it.

I get it.

And I don't, I don't just, I think I'm up against the clock mark.

I don't disagree.

I'm just saying that that's how you put people in a box.

You get them to agree to something that everybody agrees factual.

but yet they can't defend themselves on other things that are factual.

Here's something that's factual.

Charlie Barron, who appears on this network every Saturday and Sunday at noon with the Cripes cast, also does the minute to walk minute.

He posted this, which is not particularly comedy, although he does some humorous things with this.

This is a great precursor to what we're going to talk about next.

This is Charlie Barron's putting it down where the chickens can get at it on data centers.

Fort Washington, Wisconsin just approved a massive A.I.

data center because apparently the common council got blackmailed by a robot.

Folks, that's why you only send fish bags.

Here is what the data center is going to look like.

Sh**t. However, Silicon Valley applauds the decision for building another massive data center anywhere other than Silicon Valley.

Folks, Wisconsin's becoming a dumping ground for these A.I.

data centers because these tech douchebags know we got a lot of fresh water in the Great Lakes.

for now.

But these things have been replacing farms and forests all over Wisconsin.

So get ready to say goodbye America's Dairyland and hello America's motherboard.

That license plate's gonna suck eggs.

On the one hand, this data center may destroy the land, take water from farmers, pollute the Great Lakes, pleasure the devil, lower property values because of light and sound pollution, also lower the aquifers, screw up your water pressure, increase power bills, force neighboring towns to put up power lines they don't want.

Shout out West Bend.

Create very few jobs that will quickly be replaced by robots.

And did I mention pleasure the devil?

But on the other hand, without these data centers,

AI wouldn't be able to take our jobs or end all of humanity.

So, you know, it's a balancing act here, folks.

You gotta take the bad with the terrible.

And we're not doing it for us.

No, this is America.

It is our civic duty to make sure the billionaires become trillionaires with no expense spared.

Especially our own.

Now look folks, I don't live in Port Washington, all right?

I live a walleyes whiz way, but I can tell you this much.

I've watched the Common Council meeting and I saw each and every one of you get up there and say you didn't want this data center.

And then what the Common Council do, they said, yeah, we hear you.

Well, that's gotta be a no-goal.

This isn't the federal government, okay?

It's supposed to work.

Here in Wisconsin, we care about people and we care about walleyes and ducks.

We don't give a loons to it about Silicon Valley.

I don't know what's going on with your Common Council, Port Washington.

Maybe they're drinking the water coming out of a data center.

It's not too...

late, though.

Port Washington, don't give up the fight.

And everyone else, make sure your common counsel ain't pulling the same crap.

I don't want Wall-E.

I want Wall-I.

And I think you do too.

Well, folks, that is your Man of the Walk Minute special report.

As always, gold packers and **** the bears.

Nobody does it better than Charlie Barrage.

You can hear him every Saturday and Sunday at noon at the Cripes Cast.

That's it, right there, data centers.

We'll talk to Amy Barriel of Clean Wisconsin on the science, why these data centers are dangerous to Wisconsin waterways.

Come on back as the all balls show on the Civic Media Radio Network.

Farm News starts right now.

We're having fun doing it.

Welcome back to Tonal Ball Show on the Civic Media rating.

We're glad to have you along.

35 now past the hour.

Two o'clock on this September 4th, 2025.

Why is it always like it when people come to sit at the desk with us and are here in person?

Nothing wrong with StreamYard, but we always have better conversations, I feel like, when we have somebody here with us.

And that is the case.

We welcome her back to the program.

Amy Berio from Clean Wisconsin.

Amy, how the heck are you?

I'm just fine.

How are you?

I'm doing great.

Thank you.

I got my vaccines last week and so it knocked me out for a couple of days, but actually feeling great today.

And really happy you're here.

Before the break, before the farm news break with Pam Yonkey and the Midwest Farm Report,

We played, I know you've seen it, this really good clip on Instagram by Charlie Barron.

And if people haven't seen it, you can go to Instagram, look up Managed to Walk a Minute or Charlie Barron's and find it.

I don't know, Zommerz, can we link Instagram, link in our show notes somehow?

Yes, that'll be in there.

Look how great he is.

Aaron Zommerz, best producer in the business, as they say.

So we'll have it on there.

So our show notes, so you can look it up and watch it on there.

If you're just joining us, Amy, correct me at any point if I'm getting this wrong.

Essentially, what Charlie said is, hey, we have these things called...

data centers or data centers, however you want to say it.

And a lot of them are in Silicon Valley.

And now we got Yahoo's coming out here to Wisconsin and saying, because these things take so much water, hey, guess what Wisconsin has?

Lots of water because we're sitting next to the Great Lakes.

And so there's already, I didn't realize this, at least 30, right?

Either running or under consideration.

Well, there's a slight difference between just plain old data centers.

Let's

start there.

And then these AI data centers.

Let's start

there.

So we've had regular old data centers for a while in the Midwest.

And they power our things that we do.

All those emails you don't delete, where are they stored?

They're stored in a data center somewhere.

Every time you stream a Netflix show, where's that coming from?

Well, a data center is helping bring you that.

Let's pause you right there because I think this is really, really important what you just said.

Because I think through narrative that everybody wants, it lives in the cloud.

Everything's in the cloud.

Yeah, it's nowhere.

And

somebody thinks that, I mean, I think in my head, you think, oh, that's just like up in space or over the air.

No, no, no, the cloud is actually a physical thing on the ground, correct?

Yeah, so there is a building somewhere that houses all that data that we are accessing all the time.

And so that's been going on for quite some time.

But suddenly it feels, here comes AI.

So this is an incredibly...

intensive way to get information.

It takes a lot of data centers, a lot of energy to power.

I think we all kind of know we're in this sort of pivotal moment in human history where we have to get a handle on climate change, to get a handle on the way we produce energy, start moving to clean energy, start using less energy.

We need to figure those things out really fast here in the next couple of generations.

But what we have coming into this moment is an energy user like we have never seen before.

And so when you talk about that Charlie Barron's clip, I think that is about that Port Washington data center development.

And I think a lot of people, when they realized the scale of this data center were shocked.

This is going to be one of the largest data centers in the country, if not the world.

It's going

to use more energy easily than four million homes.

It will be like the biggest city Wisconsin has ever seen with no people living there.

Let's say that again, make sure people get it.

That this will be like four million homes.

Right.

Worth of

energy.

That's the amount of energy this thing is going to suck.

out of the resources of the state of Wisconsin.

Right.

More than four million homes.

And so I think suddenly that made people sort of pay attention to like, wait a minute, what's going on?

Because, yes, Wisconsin...

We are at the center of, you know, the largest freshwater resources in the world are Great Lakes, incredibly valuable.

We also have a lot of land, a lot of agricultural land.

You know, this data center in Port Washington is almost 2000 acres, mainly farmland, that's going to be, you know, converted into a campus of buildings that hold computer.

servers,

you

know software servers and so data servers that is that's a an eye-opening transition to go from You know what feels like overnight a total change in what's happening in Wisconsin and I think people are starting to pay attention

You mentioned that by the way we're talking AB burial from clean, Wisconsin on this issue that I don't think has gotten enough information and coverage or

I know some people pointed out that maybe it's not the coverage is lacking, is that there's so much news out there.

And this is not exactly a sexy topic to talk about.

Oh, data centers, that sounds boring, you know, but, but until, and I think I credit Charlie Barron's a lot for, as we say, putting it down there where the chickens can get at it and say, hey, you like go walleye fishing.

This ain't good.

I mean, that's a simplistic way to say it.

But it's also very, very true.

Is it not,

Amy?

Well, I mean, I think you.

You have the data center developer saying, hey, you know, don't worry about the amount of water that this is going to use.

I know for that Port Washington site, the developer is saying, well, we're going to use, we're going to use like a recycled closed loop.

water system and it's going to be, you know, less water.

The same thing you're seeing at Microsoft, same thing they're saying, same thing they're saying data center developed, being developed potentially in Dane County has not gone through the approvals yet.

So you're seeing, I think data center developers understand that people are going to start worrying about water.

So they're trying to kind of tamp down on those concerns.

Yeah.

But what we don't have really is a lot of transparency.

Like exactly how much water are you going to use?

What about on the hottest days of the year when our water resources are already stressed?

We've got farms using water for irrigation.

We have households using water.

Now we have a data center wanting to use water.

How much is it going to be?

And what we're not seeing is a lot of transparency.

the data center that's been proposed in Dane County.

We don't know exactly how much water it's gonna use every day.

We don't know exactly how much energy it's gonna use.

We don't know who the final owner of this site is gonna be.

And so what we're discovering is oftentimes these data centers are coming to town and already have deals with the energy utilities who are actively courting them to come.

And by the time anybody learns about it,

the deals are already done with very little transparency or opportunity for the public.

Well, let's go back to Port Washington because, and I want to make clear, I'm trusting Charlie Barron and other people like you and reporters have covered this, so I'm going to go with that, that there was an open hearing meeting, give Port Washington credit for that, and I don't know what the exact breakdown was, but overwhelmingly it appears that the citizens of Port Washington that came out said, no, no, no, we do not want this.

and yet the Port Washington Common Council voted to go ahead with it.

I think it's worth noting, Amy, is it not, that this is what makes us so dangerous right now, in my opinion.

Republicans in the legislature have underfunded local municipalities, and that has been pawned off as, oh, we gave you an increase.

It really didn't cover what local municipalities needed to exist, so they're left with

Do I raise taxes on my constituents in my county or my city or my village?

Oh, hey, here's this great data center that has a great big multi-million dollar check that will take care of my budget deficits locally.

All I have to do is say yes, and they're going to create data.

Is that unfair?

Well, I mean, you raise very good points.

This vantage which is going to be the owner of this data center is going to pay upfront 175 million dollars and that money is going to go to I imagine badly needed infrastructure Also, it will go into you know getting its own water tower getting its own sewer and water hookups Getting power lines right now there getting all the infrastructure that

it

needs and these data centers are going to be paying more

taxes than it would be if it was agricultural land.

Right.

Exactly.

Exactly.

Bingo.

I think communities are seeing those dollar signs and they've been sort of trained to see the dollar signs, right?

That's kind of how we've been functioning for a long, long time.

It's hard to find, you know,

folks who are really enthusiastic about having a data center come to town, though, when you look past those incentives.

And you bring up a great point.

Landowners, harder and harder, as we know from Pam Yankee and others, for our farming community, our ag producers, to make a living.

And now with a labor shortage due to things going on out in Washington.

And someone comes along and says, I'll give you five times what your land is worth.

Your worries are over.

and these data center people, this is eerily reminiscent of the whole Foxconn crap that happened under Scott Walker, in my opinion.

Let's go to the full lines real quickly, 855-752-4842.

Ollie in the Northwoods, Ollie, what say you?

Well, I'm glad that you're having this conversation.

I've been worried about this for several weeks now, since I,

started hearing a little bit more on the radio about data centers coming to Wisconsin.

And that's a scary thought.

And I hope people are doing their due diligence in as far as looking things up and paying attention because the groundwater has been destroyed.

I've seen several different blogs and articles about it.

And the groundwater is bad.

Their electricity bills have skyrocketed for the homeowners in the areas around those data centers.

And that's a scary thought and something that all Wisconsinites should be aware of, that utility bills will go up.

water quality goes down.

Some of the people that live around those areas where the data centers are and are being built, they have 24-7

That's another thing to think about, yeah.

Olly, thank

you very much for the call.

Really, really appreciate it.

We're talking with Amy Berrio here of Clean Wisconsin.

Amy, comments on Olly's comments.

Well, you know, I want to talk about some of the, I think, environmental impacts that people are concerned about with data centers.

And, you know, it's important when we talk about energy use especially to understand that these are

enormous energy users, but also that they're being, as I mentioned, actively accorded by our energy utilities in the state.

So that Port Washington Data Center was initially envisioned as a smaller

project.

And then, according to the developer, after meeting with the WeE Energy's executives, they made the decision to use three times more energy at that site than had originally been planned.

Alliant Energy worked with a data center developer in Iowa and then actively courted them to come to Dane County and set up shop in Vienna.

So that is currently a proposed data center.

So our energy utilities make a

guaranteed rate of return profit every time they build a new power generation facility.

And what we're looking at here, as we've seen with the Microsoft data center in Mount Pleasant, is that these energy utilities want to build new gas plants primarily to power these data centers.

Well, we all know that that's burning fossil fuel that's adding to air pollution.

And what we want to see at Clean Wisconsin is a plan from some of these developers and some of these utilities for clean energy for

using less water.

for transparency about what the impacts are gonna be, because I'm gonna tell you, these data centers also have diesel-burning generators on site, backup generators, and they have to test those periodically.

On the Microsoft side, it's hundreds of diesel generators on site.

That's real-air pollution for the people who live nearby.

You bring up the topic, and I'm glad you did.

We'll come back here and get your answer to this.

You bring up the topic of energy companies involved here.

Does

any of this run through the Public Service Commission?

in the state of Wisconsin?

Not this.

So basically, it's to some extent, but not the approvals of the centers.

We'll come

back and talk with Amy Berriel, get the full answer on why isn't the PSC having something to do with this, and more, data centers in Wisconsin.

Not exactly great neighbors.

More after this on the Civic Media Ready Network.

wherever it may lead and having fun doing it.

Welcome back to the Tattle Ball Show on the Civic Media.

We're gonna work on this Thursday, September 4th, 2025, eight minutes before the hour of four o'clock at the top of the hour.

ABC, CBS News, a check of weather.

Mike Clemens in with a great sports report.

NFL kicks off tonight and then another edition of What's Worst, an hour number two.

Right now we're talking about a very important topic to all of Wisconsin and that is these data centers.

Which power, as Amy explained, we have Amy Berrio here from Clean Wisconsin, explains so very well in our first segment.

You have ones that are just general information and now these kind of bigger ones with AI, artificial intelligence.

And Charlie Barron's Man It To Walk Minute appears on the cry, has the Cripes cast on our network on Saturday and Sundays at noon.

Usually he does a lot of funnier stuff comedy, but he took time out to put out this very serious post on Instagram.

Zomers is going to link it in our show notes.

Walking us through and focused specifically as Amy has sussed out, Port Washington, which despite an overwhelming amount of their citizens, they know we don't want a data center passed to anyway.

and the effect to Wisconsin of water in particular, but a lot of other concerns.

And I hope people don't think, oh, yeah, I mean, I'm not saying everybody out there, but there are people are going to say, oh, just another, you know, lefty, you know, not Amy, but I mean, the issue that it's another lefty green issue that they're just trying to make up.

You think that Charlie Barron's is a big lefty?

I don't think so.

And the thing is, this is not, we put during the break.

I'm getting this from a place called datacentermap.com, saying that there are 45 data centers from nine different markets in Wisconsin currently.

Goes from Eau Claire to Warsaw, Marshfield, Wisconsin Rapids, Green Bay, Appleton, Madison and the Dane County area, Milwaukee and the Milwaukee County area, and Kenosha.

Amy Berrio, this is something that every Wisconsinite

should start paying attention to you if we have it already?

I think so.

And again, there's a distinction between smaller data centers and these giant data centers.

The Microsoft data center reports say we'll use as much energy as all the homes in Milwaukee.

I think it's 300,000 homes.

Port Washington data center is many times larger than that.

The biggest energy user in the history of the state.

And so these new AI data centers are a lot larger.

And the amount of energy it takes to meet those needs is on a scale like we've never seen.

And that's what we need to really be grappling with.

We're up against the clock.

I apologize.

I'd love to have you back on this really sincerely.

Yes or no or right or wrong.

Wisconsin is not the only place we could put these.

So the argument will have to go somewhere if it doesn't.

Here we're not going to be able to use your phone or your AI.

But our clean lakes, our rivers, our town wells, we ain't getting those back once they're gone.

Well, right.

We have to protect these water resources in every way possible.

We cannot let those go.

And I think the AI genie is out of the box.

There's nothing that's going to put that in.

And so what we'd like to see at Clean Wisconsin is

How do we make these data centers sustainable and not a drain on our water resources or our energy resources?

We really need to see that and we need transparency about what they are going to mean for our environment.

And we definitely do not have transparency right now.

I think that's really important.

And I appreciate Wisconsin or clean Wisconsin take on that.

I mean, I might surprise some people.

I think maybe I'm farther left.

I don't want to see them.

I don't want to see them because my attitude is these can go somewhere else.

We only get one chance to get it right in our generation for Lake Superior, Lake Michigan, Lake Winnebago, the Wisconsin River.

Go right down the list.

I think it's fair to say, yep, put these somewhere else, but that doesn't solve the ultimate problem of these are going to be a drain on some community somewhere.

And maybe we can be leaders and figure out how to take a more sustainable and transparent approach to what's going on.

That's why you're part of a thoughtful organization like Clean Wisconsin, and I'm just talking from two to four, it's about enough.

Well, if people are angry and people are upset, and it's totally understandable, because this is, as I said, it is shocking when you look at what the needs are of these data centers.

About two minutes left, Amy Berriel from Clean Wisconsin.

What have I not asked you about these data centers that you want to make sure that people across the state understand?

I want to make sure people understand that the energy use is

going to have a cascading impact.

So if the energy utilities that bring in these data centers don't plan and they have no requirement to plan to meet these energy needs with clean energy, we're going to have a lot of gas burning power plants popping up in communities.

And that is going to be a terrible thing for people's health.

It's going to use a lot of water and we can't let that happen.

These data centers, are they like the Bitcoin mine things where they have that ridiculous hum?

and as the noise pollution

as well.

I think there's a noise, and it's certainly when they're testing out there, diesel generators, that'll be noisy and have some pollution associated as well.

I mean, if folks

look it up on 60 Minutes, there was a story either last season or the season before, somewhere in the United States, like Missouri, where they put these Bitcoin mine things, and it ruined people, in the country, in rural areas, they can't live there anymore.

Well, I mean, that's why I think we need to kind of like press pause and figure out what this is gonna mean for communities before, you know, we race down the road.

with approving data

centers.

Thank you so much for taking time.

Thank you so much for calmly laying things out when perhaps the host today

isn't

so calm because these things get my craw because my former party isn't doing their job, in my opinion, of funding local governments.

Local governments then see companies like this solve their economic problems, but we're jeopardizing generational, environmental, and living in this state all for the sake of a dollar.

And we could solve it, because last time I checked, we got a $4 billion surplus up the street at the state capitol.

This is all true.

I appreciate that.

Hey, how about that, folks?

Where folks will find you at cleanwisconsin.org?

Yep, that's it.

Clean?

Is it spelled out?

Cleanwisconsin.org?

Yep, cleanwisconsin.org.

All right.

Go to their website, folks.

They're a great organization.

They're doing the Lord's work, as they say, protecting our natural resources in the state.

Amy Berrio, you're fantastic, as always.

We'll have you back soon, because I want to make this show...

a spearhead for this issue because we need to start talking about it more, including me.

This is a great start.

Thank you.

All right, no

problem.

Come on back.

Hour number two is straight ahead.

Talk about something less important.

What's worse, regular gas or premium gas?

Come on back.

We'll have more after this.

Hour two on the Civic Media, ready network.

From the Civic Media World Headquarters in Madison, Wisconsin, it's the Todd Alba show.

And now, pursuing truth wherever it may lead, here's your host, Todd Alba.

Across

Wisconsin on the Civic Media Radio Network.

and streaming worldwide on the Civic Media app.

Good afternoon, everybody.

Ta-da, along with our producer and engineer, Mr. Aaron Zommers on the board.

It's six minutes past the hour of three o'clock.

Welcome into hour number two of the big broadcast here on Thursday, September 4th, 2025.

It is a great day to be Wisconsinite here at the World Headquarters of Civic Media Downtown Madison on State Street.

Few clouds.

We'll call it partly cloudy.

Right now in downtown Madison, there is a look for those watching on the stream, Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, that sort of thing.

Zomras has got the Sam Davidson Street came on.

There's a bus, a few bikers.

Going against the light?

Did you see that?

Did you see that right there?

The light is green for the cars, and the bikes dart out in front of them like a herd of deer.

And then we say, well, geez, why do we have bike accents?

I don't know, because they don't pay attention to the street.

The lights.

Here's the deal.

They're too poor to pay attention.

You

understand?

So people on bikes think, you

know

what?

Everyone knows what it's like to ride a bike.

And it takes energy.

If you're going uphill, you don't want to have to stop and then start again.

That's exhausting.

Well, guess what?

People who are driving aren't thinking about what it's like to drive a bike.

They're looking at the light to see if

they should go.

If it's green or not.

If it says green, I go.

So you know what?

Is it hard?

Yeah.

Suck it up.

Follow the rules or you're going to die.

Right?

Helmet or no helmet.

I'm and I don't don't at me with old Todd's not you know, he's anti bike.

I'm not anti bike I think biking is great.

Just follow the rules.

That's it.

It's very very simplistic I'm a little hot today's bombers.

Can you tell me to yeah?

I mean, I'm not sure I I'm over the I'm recovered from the vaccinations on Friday and now I think I'm more I'm just I feel good

I got some nice rest last night.

I feel very, very good today.

Great to have you along in our too many things.

Maybe the three part of the reason I'm happy is Amy Barrio from Clean Wisconsin being here in hour number one.

Many thanks to the great Luke Mathers for helping make that happen.

Amy's one of those people who again deals in science and facts and can make it in understandable terms.

And we love it when she comes on the show from Clean Wisconsin and does just that.

Because this is a serious issue data centers in Wisconsin as we talked about in there the last half hour of last of the last hour and Many and I want to sincerely thank Charlie Barron's who is on this network every weekend from noon until 1 on Saturdays and Sundays with his very popular Cripes cast that Aaron Zammer's meticulously edits

into the wee hours of Saturday morning sometimes.

Sometimes.

To ensure that all FCC rules are followed.

Because Charlie Barron's very funny guy, Wisconsin guy, but he gets a little salty with the language occasionally on the show.

It's very real, he keeps it real.

Especially, it depends on the guests.

You know, if it's a couple of comedians hanging out, they can have potty mouths.

And so, they send it to us raw, raw.

And Zomers has to clean it up.

for radio broadcasts.

We appreciate Zomer is doing that.

And, and Charlie normally deal, Charlie Barron's normally deals and just, you know, funny comedy, self-deprecating, Wisconsin stuff that we all love.

Tell your folks, I says, hi, that kind of stuff.

But he has this Instagram post, which is Zomerous is going to link to our show notes for this program.

And he went on Instagram and walked us through.

There's really serious issue of data centers in this state.

Why they're happening largely due to AI because people can't write anymore.

And so and so they have AI and all the when you go, oh, it's in the cloud.

Don't worry about floppy disks anymore.

It's in the cloud.

It ain't in the cloud.

It's in a data center on the ground.

And these data centers are using massive amounts of energy, massive amounts of natural resources, in particular water.

And these mega international companies have targeted us here in Wisconsin.

And I hope to goodness I urge all the people across the state listening to this program and beyond.

Don't be snookered in to thinking this is some partisan issue.

Oh, yeah, you know, it's just the, uh, no, the lib progressives that are want, you know, they're against this.

No.

You think Charlie Barron's is a lib progressive?

No.

So whether you musky fish, whether you're deer hunt, whether you're kayak, whether you like to go hiking, if you have a rural well, if you got a well on your property, if you like clean water, if you're an ag producer.

and you fertilize your crops, or you irrigate your crops.

If you have livestock and they take water, essentially all of us should be very, very concerned about this because this is a hugely important issue that everybody across the state.

So I hope we're gonna continue to do more shows on this.

And, well, as we always do, if some factual data comes forward that says some, for some reason, Charlie Barron's and I are wrong, okay.

Well, I mean, glad to have people on to talk about it.

But I want to follow the science on this and everything I've seen from Clean Wisconsin and many others points to this as a real boondoggle, but I get it, as I said last hour.

As a former elected official on city council, my former party, the Republicans have done a crappy job of properly funding local governments, putting the state share in for local municipalities.

And by the way, I think we're working on this.

I'm seeing on Facebook and YouTube and perhaps other places, there's no audio right now.

So you can look at my face.

Unfortunately, we're working on it.

We're working through the technical issues.

So thank you for, uh, for letting us know about that.

But this is a serious issue that I hope, uh, data centers that should, and I'm going to do my part to make sure that it is a major issue in every state legislative race and the gubernatorial race next year.

Because as I said, the Republicans, my former party have not adequately, despite what they tried to sell you.

have not adequately put state funding in for local municipalities.

So your town board chairman or your city council person, your village trustee, they're looking at the books and they're saying, what do I do?

Do I raise my taxes on my neighbor?

Oh wait, there's this big corporation that'll give us millions and millions of dollars and solve all of our problems.

And so maybe we just take this money and then, hey, you know, there's some jobs for data.

No, don't do it.

It's, as they say in Star Wars, it's a trap because it will decimate the natural resources in the state.

And in our lifetime and our generation and probably for a couple more, you won't be able to undo it.

There are other places to put these things besides Wisconsin So I hope that both Republicans and Democrats put up a you are not welcome sign at Wisconsin borders for these data centers and I admire Amy burial and clean Wisconsin for saying well Let's try to make them, you know better so that they can we can survive Okay, let that happen first and then we'll have data centers in Wisconsin That's my take on it

Uh, we're still working on the audios omers.

I think we're good.

We're good for letting us know.

Thank you, everybody.

Uh, you just missed Todd's rant, continuing rant on data centers.

We're going to keep following this because it's a very, very important issue for all of us here, uh, in Wisconsin, in my opinion, it's 15 minutes now past the hour of three o'clock.

Time once again for what's worse.

Let's

go.

time once again for what's worse nothing to give away no prize what he involved just is your chance to have your voice heard on all ten news talk stations across the civic media radio network no better place than to have your business advertised than right here at civic media ask Lena's Cabins up in Northwoods Northwoods Cabins Lena's we are up there beautiful butternut she advertised with us they're doing well I think so we will welcome you as well

So I'll give us a ringling.

I guess you could give us a ringling on the website, but go to civicmedia.us, civicmedia.us and check out our great sales team there.

All right, as Mike Lucas says timely, timely indeed, because people are driving around this weekend, perhaps to Green Bay, to Lambeau Field for the first Packer home game.

People are driving to Madison for the Saturday afternoon.

match up with Wisconsin Badger football team.

It's a whiteout, by the way.

If you're coming to the game on Saturday, it's a whiteout.

I will be there along my lovely Intel's and sister Heather.

So we're we're.

I don't whether I can say this yet or not.

So I won't.

But there's a there's a special appearance being made at the Badger football game by someone.

Oh, yes, I know.

I

know.

And there's a certain jersey that we would like to wear.

to this game, but it's red and it's a whiteout for the for the for the game.

So do we stick out a couple of cherries in the crowd?

More on that tomorrow.

But right now, if you're coming to Madison on Saturday, if you're coming to go into Green Bay on Sunday, going to be driving.

Not too many Amish attend the football.

But maybe there are some.

I've never seen a horse and buggy outside Camp Randall.

But wouldn't that be something?

All right.

Here's the category for today.

Regular gas or premium gas?

What's worse, regular gas or premium gas?

855-752-4842.

855-752-4842.

What's worse, regular gas or premium gas?

Now, this can be an issue for something.

So I guess if you drive on one of the called high performance car, I don't know.

Uh, you have to put premium in.

But for other, and I'll have my own take on this at the end of the segment here.

It's a little, little twist on today's category.

What's worse, regular gas or premium gas, eight, five, five, seven, five, two, four, eight, four, two, eight, five, five, seven, five, two, four, eight, four, two, or you can text us on the civic media app.

Download it today on either your Apple or Android device.

Simply go to your app store, type in civic CIVIC.

Media it'll pop up cute little C.M.

Logo click on that takes less than a minute.

It's free.

It's what CBS is Gail King calls a deal Little worried about Gail.

She's been off now for a couple of weeks.

Maybe she and Jane Matt narrow vacationing together.

That could be what that means something Hopefully Gail Gail's contracts up in May same time as Colbert is leaving.

So there's some talk that will Gail remain at CBS

All right, what's worse regular gas or premium gas a cam and Appleton on the text line says regular gas is fine for all v6 vehicles premium is good for v8's not necessarily otherwise Gee, I could add a v8 Different kind of v8

different

guy different guy Tom on WAUK and walkie-shot Tom in Jackson says hot toddy.

Yeah, a little hot today.

I guess I'm feeling good

I'm in a good mood.

Uh, Matt, one of our great UPS drivers in Middleton says now that regular gas has ethanol in it and we don't know how much is in it at whether at which pump or station regular is worse.

Premium is often better in a variety of ways, but costs more.

So I'll say that regular is technically worse.

That's all right.

All right, man.

I got you.

See, I'm pro ethanol.

I'm pro-enthusiologist.

We'll tell you why on the other side.

But what do you think?

What's worse?

Regular gas or premium gas?

855-7524-842.

We'll take your phone calls and Zommerous 9 will give you our opinions.

Don't miss it.

Come on back on the Civic Media.

Ready Network.

As I did on my own Alone again, naturally To think that only yesterday I was cheerful, bright and gay Looking forward to what I wouldn't do The role I was about to play But as if to knock me down Reality came around you And without so much

As a mere touch, let me into little pieces, leaving me to doubt.

Talk about God in His mercy.

If He really does exist, why did He deserve you in my heart of need?

I truly

am indeed alone again, naturally.

of three o'clock.

Naturally, that's a good way to smell zammers.

I'm not really into the big perfumes and colognes

that

much.

Interesting that we're brought that up because, uh, Giorgio Armani has passed away.

Really?

We're going to talk about that in a few minutes.

Uh, but also that song also describes my dating life alone again.

Naturally.

It's a great song.

I really, it's a chill song.

It's uh, I enjoy that.

All right.

Welcome back everybody.

Uh, we are right in the middle of what's worse today.

The category regular gas or premium gas, regular gas or premium gas.

What's worse, eight, five, five, seven, five, two, four, eight, four, two, eight, five, seven, five, two, four, eight, four, two, our very own Chris Casper, a big shout out again to Casper because Todd had it.

a moment of seniority, and I double-booked.

So our friend Matt Flynn's gonna be on next week.

We had our first time where we had to bump a guest here on this show.

It was the first time.

After almost three years.

So we had to bump our poor friend Matt Flynn.

He'll be back, he'll be on the show on Monday, along with Matt Damon.

So that'll be great.

But to yesterday, we had Skip Jones in.

And so we had to very quickly set up some microphone cords and Casper and you somers were just did Yeoman's work.

And so we give a big shout out and thank you to both of you for keeping Todd on track.

Anyway, Casper says I converted a 2003 Honda Civic to run on ethanol about 15 years ago.

Get out.

I did not know this.

And that's like a hundred percent.

That's really impressive, Casper.

Well done.

What's worse regular gas or premium gas 8 5 5 7 5 2 4 8 4 2 8 5 5 7 5 2 4 8 4 2 Let's see here.

That's a new listener.

Oh, no, it's maybe that their name is rain are a I any all right rain in Ashkash on the ISS says regular gas Taco John's premium gas

Taco Bell.

I'm not exactly sure what that means, but I love every part of it.

Um, eight, five, five, seven, five, two, four, eight, four, two, eight, five, five, seven, five, two, four, eight, four, two.

What's worse, regular gas or premium gas.

Take your phone calls also on the, uh, on the line as well.

Uh, let's see what we have.

Uh, Joseph.

watching on YouTube says in his opinion, in my opinion, we should be using those subsidy dollars to pay for farmers to return cropland to native land.

Oh, native prairie.

Oh, in terms of, uh, of, uh, ethanol.

All right.

PJ says he agrees on that.

PJ saying my next car will be electric, or should I say EV, which stands for an electric vehicle.

All right, very good fair enough eight five five seven five two four eight four two eight five five seven five two four eight four two what's worse Regular gas or premium gas.

Did I see something Thomas?

I I thought there was a texture from why a wiga or was that?

Oh, yeah here here it is.

I just like saying why a wiga?

Why does it gene gene in beautiful why a wiga listing on w a u k out of walkie shop the walkie area?

Gene Awaiowiga says, just invested in solar, but Trump would rather support or buy solar-made electricity from Canada than to support America's solar power

plants.

That was

from

the

conversation with Himubario.

That's not America first.

Well, Gene, I appreciate you weighing in.

What it is here, folks, is alternative energy Thursday.

You're on the all balls show 8 5 5 7 5 2 4 8 4 2 Dan listening to beautiful Mount Pleasant Dan.

Thanks for calling in regular gas or premium gas.

What's worse?

Well, uh, first of all, um, You got to consult your owner's manual.

Don't do it unless you know for sure what your owner's manual says.

In other words, 87 octane is usually good on most cars

If you've got a turbocharger, they probably recommend a 91 or a higher octane 93.

And if it's a hot day or if you're down south, you can run into trouble if you use 87 on certain cars.

Really?

I didn't know that.

Oh, yeah.

But that nation that can occur in on Subaru's had a problem with head gaskets.

And it's almost all Subarus require premium fuel.

And they had an issue with head gas fraud.

And I think it was kind of related to people trying to use

87 octane when they sort of been using a higher octane

got it.

Okay,

but Multi-fuel engines are out there.

You can't just say these sixes, you know can run on 87 and all the eight have to run on You know premium I have a Corvette and I can run it on pretty much anything depending on the weather and how I drive it Wow, I mean easy low octane you're gonna

Do any kind of performance you better put the premium in that's usually legal

now Dan you from a bump pleasant you sound like you're not a lay person It sounds like you're someone who works at automotive vehicles.

Yeah, I've got some backgrounds

I love it.

That's why I love our listeners.

I was, I was master certified for 50 years.

I

don't know.

Well, there

you go.

How

many

people can

say that?

There you go.

Now, what do you feel?

Let me ask you about this.

Cause I, I use, I have a Dodge Ram 2016 Dodge Ram truck and, uh, I put E 80 or not E 80.

Yeah.

I guess 88.

So it's, uh, in, in, uh, if I go to a quick trip, that's what I fill up with.

Cause I get better gas mileage and it's usually a few cents cheaper.

But.

What does your owner's manual say?

Because 88 with the higher rock team, the ethanol will kind of wash your system out, and you can end up with deposits in places you don't want them, and that's a problem.

All right, I'll check my owner's manual.

I think it's okay, but thank you, Dan.

Car care with Dan.

Don and Summer is back after this on the Civic Media Ready Network.

What's happening to the Capitol?

A legislator is banned?

You got it right.

Welcome back to the Tell

All About

Show on the Civic Media Radio Network.

Love this song.

It's a fun

too.

It's a song you can dance to on a Thursday when it feels like it feels like Friday, even though it's been a short week.

It does.

Yeah.

35 minutes down past the hour of, uh, of, uh, what's the song

called?

Uh, Brandy, You're a Fine Girl.

Brandy, You're a

Fine Girl.

It's a fine song.

They're on the Civic Media Radio Network.

Welcome back everybody on a Thursday, September 4th, 2025.

Um, as hours we, we, we, I clipped it off.

I went too close.

I have a habit of doing this.

Because I want to, I want to get that.

We had Dan, a car expert on, I wanted to ask him about gasoline or what's worse last half hour, what's worse, regular or gasoline summers.

Let's see.

It's a tough one.

I think I'm going to have to say regular is worse because now I know there's all the farmers subsidies and everything, but massive corn growing operations just for the purpose of ethanol do create, like it has a.

big environmental impact, according partially to research done at the UW-Madison Center for Sustainability and the Global Environment.

Now, one of these days, we're going to have people on, we're going to sit you down, and we're going to have a tutorial on ethanol.

and you will understand why it is helpful and beneficial to planet Earth.

Because

there's a lot of... As long as we also have somebody on who can speak to the environmental impact.

I will have all the facts for you.

But because people think, oh, you know, it's just ethanol.

No, no, no, no.

There's byproducts and there are other things that are made... This is true.

...besides from ethanol production.

And so I can tell you this firsthand.

It's complicated.

It's...

I think it's great.

But anyway, I'm an E88 guy because it's cheaper and I get better gas mileage.

Oh, yeah, I don't actually use premium gas.

You're anti, but you don't use the premium gas.

All right.

You can dislike something, but still be forced to use it.

Like, I don't

like.

All right.

All right.

Let's talk about it.

This is news you can use.

Hot across the wires at this hour our friend Mike Clemens sports reporter here at Civic Media We have him on this show.

He's going to be on the show tomorrow Let me check it in with us the last half hour and this is why it'll be great at 335 Mike Clemens will be here He will have the updated the latest the greatest injury report

from the Packers coach, Mike LaFleur, and it'll be in his hot little hands and Clemens will share it with us on tomorrow's show.

Get you all ready for the big kickoff against the Detroit Lions in Lambeau Field in Green Bay on Sunday.

You can hear that game of the pregame show starting at one o'clock, kickoff just after three, RCO Richland Center, CQM Park Falls, RJN, Racine Kenosha,

AUH in beautiful Wattoma, all stations carrying the Green Bay Packers on the Civic Media Network.

Here's the latest from that great acquisition.

Micah Parsons from the Dallas Cowboys.

Mike Clemens just tweeting moments ago that Micah Parsons back injury.

This is a direct quote from Parsons.