“Pawn in a billionaire’s game”: A federal worker shares her story

Greetings and welcome to the recombobulation area. My name is Dan Schaeffer. Thank you for joining us.

There's been a lot happening these past couple of months as Donald Trump has returned to office

as president and Elon Musk and the Department of Government Efficiency has begun to take a

wrecking ball to various federal agencies making drastic cuts to the federal workforce.

We're beginning to see the effects of this at the state level here in Wisconsin and recent

reports have indicated that mass layoffs are happening at agencies within the U.S. Department of

Agriculture, which has a significant presence in the state. As we continue to work to understand

what's happening from a big picture policy standpoint, we also want to help tell the stories

of how these actions are impacting real people, real Wisconsinites. To do that, we have a very

special guest host for this episode. He is the former lieutenant governor of Wisconsin,

Mandela Barnes. Mr. Barnes, thank you so much for joining us and welcome to the recombobulation area.

And Mr. Barnes sounds so formal, but really, you know, excited to have this opportunity to tell

these stories. Hate that we have to tell them, but so many folks still don't understand the reality.

Don't understand the gravity of these cuts and they don't understand the impact that is having

on their own communities and the real lives of people within those communities.

It is rather discombobulating and we're trying to make sense of all that's going on here.

So tell us about your guest for this interview and about the conversation that you had.

So my guest is a friend of mine, Katya Wannish. We are part of a running group of Go figure,

but I've never known her to be political at all. She speaks to that a little bit in our conversation,

but I did notice on social media that she posted about being fired less than a year,

been into her new job, her new role as a wetlands engineer for the NRCS. And she posted about

how it was a dream job for some of those same stories that you see have been going viral. But,

you know, those folks, you know, we haven't had a, you know, a necessarily real connection.

Like if you're here in Wisconsin, they've been very sensational and they are important stories

to tell, but this one is a person I actually know. And so it felt even more real, especially

considering that it's such an issue that is near and dear to me, wetlands preservation,

any sort of conservation work and the importance of the entire not just ecosystem or ecology,

but the economy of the state of Wisconsin. And she has a very unique perspective,

many young person, you know, relatively speaking. I'm in my late 30s now. She's in her mid 20s.

And it's important even consider the fact that she took this job after having already worked

for the federal government. She had kept her old position. She's still the employee right now,

but she pursued her passion. She chased her dreams and she was penalized for it.

So unfortunate, but we do really appreciate Katya sharing her story with you and for you bringing

this story to our listeners here at Civic Media and at the Recombobulation Area. And so without

further ado, we will take a listen to Mandela Barnes' conversation with the now former wetlands

engineer at the National Resources Conservation Services, Katya Wanesh.

Hey everybody, this is Mandela Barnes, former lieutenant governor with a special project with

Civic Media. I would love to call this not a podcast because I said I wasn't going to do a podcast,

but the moment calls for important conversations with people who've been impacted by cuts, devastating

cuts by the Trump administration, aided by Elon Musk. Just wanted you all to hear what is going on

in the lives of everyday folks who are taking this challenge head on, but they're not taking it

lying down. So with that said, I want to take a second to get into it because as we record

today, Friday afternoon, it is a beautiful day outside. I got a good friend of mine running

buddy Katya Wanesh after that was the last name right? Yep, yeah. I got it right. I was taking a

gamble on that one because I've only called you by your first name. A running buddy of mine who

spent time at the USDA and has unfortunately had her position eliminated by decisions made by an

unelected billionaire, the most wealthy person in the entire planet on the entire planet. I think

of some fear. I know she thinks of some fear. We're going to take a moment to dive into her story.

But let's talk about the things that we are enjoying first. We got to talk about the things that we

do get a chance to appreciate like this weather and I know for a fact I asked you before the show

because I knew the answer and you got out for a run of day, right? Yep, I ran 17 miles with some

friends of mine around the lovely Arboretum and like past Madison, Wisconsin, love living here

for that reason. It is an incredible place to run and you have put me to shame with that 17 miles.

It's a weird dynamic because usually I get to put people to shame when they interview me

about running distance and this is also unique for me being on this side of the interview table.

So to say the only other person I've had a chance to interview this way has been Stacey Abrams.

So that's his first steps you're following it. No pressure. No pressure at all. So Kati,

you want to take a moment to tell the people about yourself? Yeah, my name is Kati Wanish. I was born

raised in Madison, Wisconsin. Could see the capital out of my bedroom window from where I grew up.

So I have always been passionate about the environment, working out outdoors, exercising. I started

running in high school. That's a big part of my identity. I went to West High School and then

followed it up with going to UW-Madison. At UW-Madison I got a double major in biological systems

engineering and then also environmental science. And then right out of college I actually took a

little break backpactor on Europe really enjoyed that experience and then came back ready to dive

into my position in the federal workforce. Yeah, so let's take a second to talk about that position

in the federal workforce. Yeah, so I started at Indian Health Services which is a department under

the agency HHS Health and Human Services. And I was a field engineer there and my office worked

with tribes in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Minnesota on their water and wastewater infrastructure.

So I primarily worked with five different tribes in Wisconsin ensuring that they had their

water and wastewater systems that were up to date and they had access to those important

resources. And so how would you say that you know your experience as an endurance athlete as a

runner, you know, you swim also and how did how does that mesh with the type of work that you

know and how to draw you to the type of work that you you were a part of. Yeah, definitely. So,

you know, I chose that position for multiple different reasons. You know, I was excited to get

into the federal government but also on kind of, you know, my interest side of things. It was an

outdoor position. I got to spend a lot of time in the field on some of these beautiful reservations.

And, you know, I really enjoyed that aspect of it being out there.

I mean, it feels like a very unique position of a very special position because one is not

something everybody gets a chance to do. Like there's so much beauty here specifically in the

state of Wisconsin as it relates to our natural spaces. I'll tell people all the time one of the

most rewarding parts about being a lieutenant governor was getting to travel, getting to see all

the beauty that this place had to offer the interactions with our 11 federally recognized tribes.

Get into learn, you know, the ways that things have been done in the past and how they relate to

the life we get to enjoy now. What do you think was your favorite part about the position? Actually,

how long did you get to serve in the role? Yeah, I was there for a year and six months. So,

I really enjoyed all that time there. You know, I really enjoyed, you know, making connections.

And I think the reason that I chose the position is because I wanted to serve the people.

Me and I knew I could go to some large company or whatever and get a job right away,

but I was really looking for a position that allowed me to

interact and serve with people and, you know, see those benefits on a daily basis. So, you know,

I really enjoyed working with people on the Lacta Flambo Reservation. They have beautiful lakes

around and menominate their gorgeous forests. And it was really cool to be in the field talking

with these wastewater and water operators. Well, we're working on construction and that sort of

thing will also enjoy these beautiful spaces. And there's a lot of days where I was standing out

there and I was like, wow, I'm so lucky to have this job and be standing in the middle of this

beautiful forest doing work for these people. And I think you touched on a very important point

because you could have been in the private sector and so many other folks could be in the private

sector making a lot more money in many instances. But it's the commitment and the dedication

to other people. And I'd say that those private sector experiences are completely selfish. But what

I am saying is that when folks go to work for the federal government, it's not because they're chasing

a paycheck or trying to be some drain on the system. In fact, it's folks that are trying to

contribute to the system. Exactly. Yeah. So I interned when I was in college. I interned at a

Fortune 500 company. And you know, I really enjoyed that experience. I learned a lot there.

But one of the key takeaways is I didn't feel like I was actually able to help people through my

position. You know, I was sitting behind a computer doing software all day. And I didn't feel like

I was actually like interacting with any clients and like helping people in the field, which has

been a big part of my goals in my career. You know, if I got this degree and when I got my degree,

I was like, you know, I want to do something good with my life. And to me, that meant, you know,

actively serving and actively being able to see those impacts of who I serve. So it's really

excited to get into the federal workforce and be able to, you know, see those people see how

putting a new water main in a community. So they have clean water impacts people. For sure,

I also interned for a Fortune 500 company when I was in college. And it's what let me know,

ultimately, that I wanted to move towards more service oriented role for myself. And look,

I don't cast a spursion on anybody who chooses that path to work on it for a big corporate.

Go ahead. But I knew that it wasn't necessarily for me at the time, or I still don't think that

is for me. Yeah. So what would you want people to know about the role? Because

some folks like I've been taking a deep dive into numbers and see who approves of what's going on

right now with the committee. I'm not even going to call that committee what they want it to be called.

You know, I will ultimately call it some pejorative if I even keep pressing this issue. But what

I will say is that some people can look, oh, yeah, well, there's so much waste in the federal

government. And sure, of course, there's waste and federal government, waste state and local

government as well. But I think that ultimately a lot of that waste is attributed to the same folks who

get contracts all over over and over again. And Elon Musk is one of those people who's been one of

the biggest beneficiaries of federal government contracts. But people don't always see the real

world impact when it's just slashing burn. And even if you decided that you don't like this person

because they have a federal government job, think about what those jobs mean, not just economically

speaking, but you were responsible for a whole lot in your position, even just being one year in

a little bit younger than me. I don't want to start talking about ages, but you're a little bit

younger than me. And even in your role in your capacity, you had a certain level of responsibility

to be a steward of the resources here. And I think about all the folks in different agencies,

it could be Department of Veteran Affairs, it could be even the IRS, even the FBI, like all these

different federal agencies that have been tasked with keeping the American people safe,

with keeping the American people healthy. And there has just been an abject failure in such a short

amount of time. So I want you to talk about like what does what do you want people to know about

what your role meant as well as other roles that are being cut?

Yeah, definitely. So, you know, I really felt like I was the point of contact for the tribes

in my office in general. You know, when they had issues with any of their water, wastewater systems,

we were the first people to call. I know people in my office who would answer calls, you know,

anytime of the day, anytime weekends overnight to answer the questions as these operators as a

technical resource for them to make sure that their communities had these like important sanitary

services. So yeah, and then I guess in my role specifically, like I, one of the programs that we

did is we provide septics and wells for tribal members that aren't on community systems.

And I was the point of contact for multiple different tribes specifically for that. And I

offer saw the whole process. And you know, I really felt important in that role as people when they

didn't have a septic system or when it didn't work. So when they went to flush their toilet, you

know, it backed up into their house or they turned on their faucet and they didn't have clean water.

I was the person that was out there checking and verifying and seeing what we could do to help correct

that and then ultimately getting them the services they needed installed. And you know, I really

enjoyed that role and the impact that I could see that I was making because I would see individual

people who went from having brown water with very low pressure to having a good clean

water that they could drink out of their faucet. I mean, you can tell the passion in your voice

about what you were doing. And it just makes you feel as if you have to be very wealthy in this

country just to survive given the complete lack of regard for air quality, for water quality,

for anything that keeps people safe and keeps them healthy. It is the most vulnerable people who will

always bear the brunt of that. And what folks often feel to realize is that when vulnerable

populations suffer, it has an impact on everybody. It is the right thing to do from a very

noble perspective, but it's also the right thing to do even if you're a selfish person,

even if you are an individual, even if you subscribe to individualism, rugged individualism,

which cannot exist in a society with 8 billion people, you got to care about somebody else if

you care about yourself is something that I really want. What I see is sick offense and

Congress who are going along with this. And I know you mentioned that you don't take this

personally when we had a chance to speak, but even if you don't take it personally, like how

does this make you feel regard in regards to your position, your role, what you were able to do

in that very short amount of time, but also some of the other folks in the federal government who are

dealing with similar situations. Yeah, definitely. So I really feel like there's a lack of dignity.

And I just felt like I was kind of completely erased from the system one day. So I essentially

received a blank email, nothing written in the message, nothing saying hi, Kati, or anything

like that, a blank email with an attachment telling me that I was terminated. And just kind of that

shock of not even feeling like I was a person in that moment that they could take a second to write

anything in the body of that email, really stung. And I was terminated for performance, which is

I'm still trying to figure out why exactly, you know, I received multiple awards in my time as an

engineer, I was nominated for junior engineer the year. And it's just kind of confusing why I was

terminated for performance, you know, my supervisors, no one up in the higher ups in the stating,

and she really knew that I was being let go. And I've tried to reach out to HR contacts and

still just haven't got any answers on this. And it's kind of just really weird. And it feels

really hurtful that people would suddenly think that my position isn't important. It is incredibly

cruel and incredibly damaging to a person psyche. And my heart goes out to you. And that's one of

the reasons I want to make sure we have this conversation because people need to hear from real

voices that are dealing with this. I guess we can all read online. We can all see the posts. We can

all, you know, watch the news, listen to the news. However you are, however you're getting information,

but hearing from the people impacted is what has always been important being able to provide

that perspective. And what's the thing you want people to know?

Yeah, I guess I just want people to know like that this is impacting real people. It's not just

random people working behind a computer. These are real people with real lives that do real things

to help the Americans and the people living in this country. I guess one thing that keeps on

really stinging to me. So I worked a year and a half for Indian Health Services like I was telling

you about earlier. And then I switched to USDA for one month. Well, I was there in that brief

period of time. And, you know, super excited. I remember texting my sister on the first day of

the job and saying, I think this is my dream job. I was a wetlands engineer there. So working to

restore wetlands primarily in southern Wisconsin. And I was super excited about that position. You

know, I finally felt, you know, I had four years of schooling and, you know, started with a different

public job in the federal government and finally transitioned into like my dream job. And I was

so excited about it. And I guess I knew when I started, you know, I could start to sense that

there was a little turmoil. I was the last batch of hires to get brought on before they had the like

shutdown on hiring. And something that still like stings me to this day, I guess is had I stayed

with Indian Health Services. I was not a probationary employee there anymore. And I would have

still been around. But because I transferred to USDA, I started a new probation and I was let go.

And something to me that like stands out is like, I feel like the American dream is going and doing

and when you get a big opportunity, you're excited about this career switch into a job that perfectly

aligns with what you want. Like you should take that. And it was something, you know, I thought about

and I was like, I'm not sure if my position's going to be there, but it feels silly to turn down

this like big opportunity in my life. So. And it was the right thing to do. And what's so striking

about the people you see online who say, well, I was terminated because of performance. Like folks

who go in who have done the right thing are being punished for doing the right thing at the same

time, you see people with some of the most egregious interests having unlimited amounts of power

and influence over the federal government. You see boiling gas executives get in to make the

decisions about our public lands. You see people who have a whole lot of money to make deciding

who gets contracts and what contracts get cut. You see just some very nefarious actors and it feels

as if there is not enough to protect the American people from this onslaught. And I'm not sure if

you've ever considered yourself to be political before I don't want to make assumptions. I'll let you

answer that question. Yeah, definitely, you know, vaguely involved in politics. I took AP

governor high school and had some great history teachers at West high school that um, you know,

definitely like taught me the political ideas and different things that we should be thinking about.

But I wouldn't say I'm like super strong and political. I'm generally not one to take out there

to the streets or anything like that. And now I will be. Now I will be. I won't be able to hear

that part because one of the unintended consequences for them for sure is an activated base of people

who have to live the reality of the Trump administration and really are here to demand answers.

It's going to be people like Kati who are showing up not just in the streets, but people who are

showing up to run for office, people who are ready to challenge the system, people who are ready

to demand more from leadership. And speaking of demanding more from leadership, what do you want to

see people in Congress fighting for right now as these cuts continue as this sort of

soulless behavior persists investors in the federal government in the White House specifically.

What do you want to see from leaders? Yeah, I guess I want to see leaders demanding why this is

happening instead of passively just sitting by. And you know, I've called my senators here in

Wisconsin multiple times. I got the voicemail box for Ron Johnson. And I, or I didn't even get to

the voicemail. His voicemail is full. And I got the voicemail of Tammy Baldwin. But you know,

I really haven't heard from my senators. And you know, I'm not entirely sure. I follow the

news, but there's a lot of stuff going on. And I'm not entirely sure what I can be doing. What

other people can be doing to protect their jobs, if anything, like what exactly is happening.

And I guess it's just a very weird and scary time to be alive. And I know the other people

are still working with that I left at the USDA and RCS like I texted one of them the other day.

My supervisor and he was like, use my personal phone number as a reference, because I have no

idea like when I'm still going to be around. And you know, these are real people's lives that

they're essentially playing with here. I think that's what's going on. Like it's not strategic

or anything anymore. It feels like playing ponds and a billionaires game. Exactly. That's exactly

what's happening right now. And for so long, people have been warnsing the level of income

inequalities out of control. No individual should be able to amass this sort of wealth. No

individual should be able to amass this sort of influence because it can only have back consequences.

And we are seeing those back consequences in real time. And regular people are being hurt

in the process. And when you talk about, you know, the sort of passive resistance, I do

understanding you are certainly not the only person. I looked at some of the numbers as I mentioned

before, you know, the amount of people that think this country is going in the right direction

under water around 38 to 50 is kind of the average in terms of polling. Trump's approval rating is

that 47%, which is way too high in my opinion. Granted, 50% disapprove. But at the same time,

you got someone who like Elon Musk is a 43% approval rating. Again, too high. Under water,

but what gets to my core is the fact that Democrats in Congress, the approval is 21%. 21%

of the American people. Wow. I didn't know that it was that low to be honest. 40% of democratic

voters, according to Kenny Piacpole last week, 40% of Democratic voters approve of Democrats in

Congress right now. And I just want the message to be, you know, abundantly clear that

we aren't waiting for an emergency to happen. An emergency is here. An emergency is taken place.

We are in the middle of an emergency. We need people who are ready to ring the alarm. We also need

people who are ready to put out the fire. And it takes effort to put out the fire. It takes a

desire to put out the fire. We can't be comfortable. And this is the collective we,

but if you have a position, you don't have the luxury of being comfortable in this moment.

So many people are dependent on you. I mean, that's the thing. Like I am super frustrated about

this, but I feel really helpless. Like there's nothing I can do. Like I said, I'm literally

upon in someone's game. They don't care about me at all. And I guess I'm just looking to my

elected officials and people that do have the power to do something to try to help here because

I feel helpless. And so I'll push you. I'll push you on this one. Yeah, I've agreed with you

in the entire time. But I have fundamentally have to disagree with the nothing you can do because

there's always. And I know it can feel like there's nothing you can do. I know you can feel

like you're powerless. But that's the purpose of this all. It is to make you feel powerless.

And if you submit as it feels as many people feel that leaders in Congress are doing right now,

submitting to the will, then there's no hope for anybody. And so I just want you to understand

that there is still work. You can. There is still power that you do have even if it seems like

you don't. And you don't have to answer this question. But I hope that there is a cadre of you all

who have had to deal with similar circumstances in terms of unfair termination have been able

to find community. Oh, definitely. Okay. That is. All right. Yeah. That is that is good to hear.

And so this completes my pushback. Now you just name up point because together in numbers is where

you're able to demonstrate that power. Exactly. There's been no movement to fight injustice

that didn't start with a bunch of people that felt they were powerless, but also other folks

who were determined to reject that notion. And you being in the eye of the storm, especially as a

young person, you're still freshening your 20s if I'm not mistaken. And so you got a whole lot of

energy and a lot of time. And the people who are listening, I'm sure you're going to have a whole

lot of people who are behind you in your efforts. Because this is a wrong that has to be right it in

one way or another, whether it's you getting your job back, whether it's you getting a better job

of the federal government at some point, or whether it's a person who also thought that they were

powerless, getting a chance to get their voice out there to be able to tell their stories to make

life better for all of us. Yeah, you're totally right about that Mandela. And you know, I really have

been trying to do that. I spoke with someone from the cap times the other day. And then we have a

group chat with everyone that I was let go with. I immediately told them, Hey, they want to hear

your story and pushing those people out there. I plan on going to a protest later today for Elon

Musk against him at a Tesla supercharger station. So I'm looking forward to get out there and seeing

other people that have the same views as mine and have also likely been hurt and getting out there

and finding community and that and fighting back together. I appreciate you not giving up.

Well, fun things you got coming up. Yeah, definitely. You know, I'm looking forward to this beautiful

spring of Madison. I'm a big runner. So looking forward to clear bike paths and trails again. I have

I'm racing ice age 50 here in May. That's an ultramarathon. So I'm really excited about that. It

is a very long run for people who are unfamiliar with the ice age 50. It is, look, I've, I'm not

gonna sit here and talk about the races that I've run, but I can tell you I'm not doing ice age 50

as far too far for me to run. So if I had goes off the people like you, I will certainly be seeing

you out there on the trail. You're a lot faster than me. So it will be a very brief encounter.

But I just want to thank you for taking the time to share your story. One, it is brave to do so

because you think about the power and the heft of the federal government, but also the vengeance

that's being enacted on individuals. It takes a lot to be able to show up and I just want to thank you

for your time. I want to thank you for your service to this country, your service to the people

of the state of Wisconsin and know that this is not over. Yeah, thanks for having me on here today,

Mandela is really happy to hear my story and I'm hoping that other people can start to understand

what's actually happening and these are real people that are being impacted. Awesome,

thank you. You have a great rest of the day. You too. That conversation you just heard was with

former Lieutenant Governor Mandela Barnes and Katia Warnish, the now former wetlands engineer

at the Natural Resources Conservation Services. Mandela, what did you learn from this conversation?

So yeah, I learned that there's a lot of important work that is or was going on over at the agency

and unfortunately learned about what's going to happen as a result of that department being

unstaffed or understaffed. There are so many people in this country who have given their entire

professional sales to entire professional existence and pursuit of service of this country. These

are public servants and to have these opportunities just swept from underneath their feet is a shame

on our nation right now and I hope that there are opportunities for these folks to mobilize,

to organize, to engage others and to educate as well and I hope this program, I hope that

that interview could shed light for folks who still don't understand what exactly is happening

right now as they slash and burn the entire federal workforce. We are all going to have to deal with it.

We are all going to have to pay the price in one way or another and it's going to be a big mess to

clean up whenever this nightmare is over. Yeah, hearing Katia Warnish talk about, you know,

this being a dream job for her and a dream job being in public service and that seems like the exact

type person who we should want to have a long career in public service helping people across the

country helping in all of the important work that she was doing and it is so unfortunate that

you know, it has taken the turn that it has. And these aren't easy jobs either. Let's make no

mistake about that. They require a high level of education. They require a very real attention

to detail and acute intention of detail and to even replace, even if they decided to hire for

that position tomorrow, it would be hard for a person at that caliber to say, yeah, I'm going to

go take this job because the threat will always loon that you may not have that job the next day.

Yeah, very concerning stuff. So so much of what's been happening is so concerning for so many and

we really appreciate you having this conversation and helping share this story and we so appreciate

Katia for speaking out and for sharing her experience as well. If you have a story to share with us

with civic media or with former lieutenant governor Mandela Barnes, you can get in touch with us

at info at civicmedia.us or at the recombobulation area at gmail.com or through any of civic

media's social media platforms. Mandela, thank you again and keep fighting the good fight.

For sure, thank you so much for having me. Find all of Dan's work at the recombobulation area

and on our website at civicmedia.us.