We have a very special interview planned for you today, so we're just going to get right
to it.
Today we are thrilled to be joined by the Senator of the Great State of Wisconsin, Tammy Baldwin.
Senator Baldwin, thank you so much for joining us and welcome to the Reconbobulation Area.
Thank you. I am really delighted to be in the Reconbobulation Area and delighted to be
with you.
Well, thank you so much.
Now, I understand that earlier this afternoon, you were at a local child care center in Milwaukee.
Coincidentally, we did not plan this, but I happen to know this child care center very
well as it is the child care center that we send our daughter to. So it's very exciting
to see that you had the opportunity to go there today where we send our daughter to
day care.
What were your impressions of that visit?
Well, first of all, what an incredible center it is, Pennfield is doing extraordinary
work.
And in this day and age where we really have a child care crisis, the staff there seem
to stick with their careers for years after year after year.
That's so important to parents to have teachers that aren't leaving in the middle of the
year.
And also just a real commitment to serving children with special needs as well as many others.
But like most child care in the state, they have waiting lists of people who would love
to be able to send their child there and they just don't have the capacity to add.
And so our discussion after the tour was really about the crisis situation we face in Wisconsin
without having enough child care slots given the demand, which means either children
are maybe unsafe or unregulated care, or parents are leaving the workforce because of
their responsibilities.
And this is a crisis we have to fix.
Yeah, as a stay at home, when I started the Reconvivalation Area, I was starting it as
a part time thing when I was a stay at home dad.
So I know that dynamic of how difficult it can be for parents to be in and out of the
workforce and things like that.
Obviously, child care funding in Wisconsin has been a very big issue over the past year
with Republicans in the state legislature voting the child care counts program out of the
state budget, forcing a lot of places across the state to close or raise rates.
But at the federal level, from where you're sitting, what more can be done to address
this broken system of child care?
Well, let me start with a good news and that is that even in a year where there was no
ability to spend beyond what we had spent in the past fiscal year, we managed by moving
things around to increase overall child care funding by $1 billion.
It was a 9% increase for the child care development block grant this year.
And we also have a significant increase in the Head Start program.
So we're very pleased to be able to sort of incrementally increase our commitment recognizing
the crisis situation that we're in right now.
But really, when I look big picture, I think we have to realize that the free market
doesn't work for child care.
If you want to pay the dedicated workers who take care of our children, what they're
worth, and that would be a living wage, provide benefits, and to provide the sort of oversight
to make sure that a certified child care center is doing what it needs to do to have a safe
and nurturing environment for our young ones.
And you want to have prices affordable for parents.
Right now we're seeing it just doesn't work.
We have costs right now for parents that are as much as tuition at a UW school.
But I was saying earlier today, you have 18 years to plan on that funding for your child
to go to college.
You have nine months to work on making sure you have enough money for child care.
And so we have to really reinvision the system.
There's a measure that's led by my colleague, Patty Murray, who started her career in early
childhood education.
Isn't it great to have a senator who started in that field?
She understands how broken it is.
And so I joined her in an effort to reinvision it.
And I would do it in a way that assures that workers are respected and get the pay and
benefits that they deserve as well as the training.
But that keeps the price tag affordable for parents.
We believe that you shouldn't pay more than like 7% of your income towards child care.
And so there's a way that the federal government and state government can partner to take up
the excess between cost of tuition and 7% of your income and make up that difference so
that we can have great child care and also make it affordable for parents who need it.
Well, that's an issue I'm very passionate about.
And we could spend the entire interview talking about that.
But there's a lot I'd like to get to.
And you've been very busy these last few days.
I believe yesterday you were at we're taping this on June 10th might not be out right
away.
But you were yesterday you were at Pride Fest in Milwaukee.
You of course made history in 2012 as the first openly gay member elected to the US Senate.
How is that experience of going to events like Pride Fest changed for you over the years?
Wow.
I have to look back at the beginning of my time stepping up to run for office and I was
24 years old and I came out in college and I had been working towards the possibility of maybe
running for office at the local level.
But when I came out I literally wondered this was in the mid 1980s.
Would I be able to pursue the career that I was looking at while being out and honest
and open about who I am or would I really have to choose something else?
And it was because there were some mentors and role models out there who had achieved,
you know, had run for office out.
And they're modeling for me that this was possible was everything.
I go to a Pride Fest now and recognize that people are like, oh, our US Senator is gay,
right?
And hopefully, you know, when you can see somebody like you who's achieved something, oftentimes
those possibilities open up in your mind about what you can achieve.
So that's one of the feelings I have when I go and I have young people coming up to
me and recognizing me and, you know, just think I can do it.
That representation mattering.
Oh my gosh.
And then there's the substantive representation.
And I think about the things that have happened between 1986 when I want to see it on the
Dean County Board and now where we have federal laws finally advancing and expanding rights.
And yet we still have a ways to go.
And so Pride month in my mind, I take stock of the progress we've made, never mistake
progress for victory though.
And then I thank the generations before us that have been role models and then I think
about the challenges that lie ahead.
And there are many.
This is a time where we're seeing a lot of antagonism, a lot of, sadly, a lot of Republicans
who have targeted, especially the transgender community.
And we've seen bills introduced at the local and state level.
We've seen book bans in schools and libraries.
This is a time where we have to be vigilant, but also again, embrace our successes.
So when you attend events like that, do you take a moment ever to reflect on the work
that you do on issues like that, obviously most recently, within your most recent term
here, you helped pass the respect for marriages.
I sure did.
You sure did.
You helped that get over the 60 vote threshold.
It needed to pass in the U.S. Senate.
What was the most important part of getting the bill to that point?
What was the biggest hurdle?
So obviously you were able to overcome there.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
The biggest challenge in the Senate to pass legislation is overcoming a filibuster where
you need 60 votes.
And at the moment we were working on the respect for Marriage Act, there were 50 Democrats,
50 Republicans, Democrats were in control because the vice president could come and break
a tie if necessary.
And the reason we introduced the respect for Marriage Act is because when the Supreme Court
of the United States overturned Roe v. Wade, they made it clear they were coming after
other rights and freedoms.
They made it clear they were coming after access to contraception, made it clear that
they were coming after same-sex marriage.
And frankly, interracial marriage was that case was also determined on the same grounds
that Roe was right to privacy, basically all of these.
So we knew that marriage was in threat and we introduced the respect for Marriage Act.
And what I knew also is that my Republican colleagues at this day and age know people
who are gay and know people and care about people who are married.
And so I really, these were one by one conversations where my colleagues were struggling grappling
with this.
Maybe they had a staff member who was gay and married.
Maybe they had somebody in their extended family or something they went to church with
or a neighbor.
They wanted to get to yes and I could kind of sense which of my colleagues wanted to get
to yes on this bill and listen to their concerns and we're able to address them.
One of the major concerns was how this would affect religious liberties.
And the answer in the respect for Marriage Act is it would not affect religious liberties
at all, either expanding or contracting them.
So when we made that clear in the legislation, a number of others came on board.
The end I persuaded 12 Republicans to join all 50 Democrats and we passed the respect
for Marriage Act into law.
And now that happened, did that happen after the midterm elections?
It did.
We were working on it prior to the midterm elections.
And there were a lot of people critical when I said let's wait to hold the vote until
after because a lot of people really wanted to just see where people were going to fall
on that and I understand that desire.
But what I was really serious about is I didn't want to have a show vote on this.
I wanted to pass this bill so people could have some security that their marriages would
not be in jeopardy in the future if the Supreme Court revisited the topic.
And I had heard a couple of my Republican colleagues say I will be a no vote if this is held
before the midterms.
I will be a yes vote if it will be held afterwards and I took them at their word and they kept
their word.
So it was more important to you to pass something than to make a political point.
Absolutely.
Very interesting.
I think that says something about the way you approach governing as a senator.
Yes.
I mean, I recognize occasionally you do have to have a vote where you show people whose
side folks are on.
But when there is a path to getting something done, let's take that path.
Now you've, of course, had a busy couple of days today.
You're at the Child Care Center, yesterday you're at Pride Fest.
The day before you spoke at the Democratic Party of Wisconsin's convention right here
in Milwaukee.
Now I do have to ask about what happened during your speech there because it was one
of the kind of, I don't know, I guess standout moments, highlight moments to a certain extent
from that convention.
Your speech was disrupted by pro-Palestine protesters.
So first, where do you stand with respect to this ongoing conflict right now?
And then second, what is your message to those who might usually support Democrats, support
President Biden, support you who might not be right now because of the administration
and the Democratic Party's policies toward the conflict in Gaza?
Right.
So, just, it's always hard to condense into a very short period of time, a massive topic
like that.
But, you know, when the attack took place in Israel, obviously horrific, and I am somebody
who has always supported a two-state solution, I want to see Israel and Palestine side-by-side
living in peace.
I believe in Israel's right to defend itself, but I also hope always for a path that
doesn't involve the sort of staggering civilian losses that we have seen.
And we need to create a ceasefire, and that ceasefire has to involve both the entry of
humanitarian aid, as well as the release of the hostages.
And I have called repeatedly for a ceasefire to accomplish those goals and to lead to
permanent end to this conflict.
The current situation, as we talk right now, is that our president, Biden, has worked
with the parties to create a sort of three-phase ceasefire that would end in the end to the war.
And he is urging the sides to agree to that, and he's doing so.
He's urging urgently.
Today, as we speak, the U.N. Security Council endorsed that plan.
I feel like we are at a moment of hope that we could agree to something, get the parties
to agree to something that would end the conflict.
And I am so heartbroken by the loss of civilian life, but also the destruction in Gaza that
will make it very difficult to rebuild.
But we have to have a path to that, and the international community has to stand up.
And I think that U.N. Security Council vote really shows that the world is with that direction.
Do you think that could be a potential turning point for?
I pray that it will be.
You can also feel very powerless in watching all of this.
Even though I'm a United States senator and have called for a ceasefire and have called for
release of all the hostages and humanitarian aid, and been engaged in calling for that in many
different ways, I still wish I had a bigger ability to bring this to a close.
So I want to step back then and take a moment to ask you some bigger picture questions.
Just about representing the whole state of Wisconsin.
Now, I'm going to quote someone I don't often or really ever agree with, and that's Republican
Assembly Speaker Robin Voss. During a 2021 public hearing on new maps, Voss mentioned your 2018
election victory a number of times. He said that you won more than 15 districts.
They were also won by a Republican member of the state legislature.
In response to some questioning, he said, quote, she obviously appeals in ways that people,
i.e. Democrats who run for the legislature don't.
Now, I think it's politically advantageous for him to say that, especially as he was saying that
in a public hearing where he was advancing during the mandate. That's right.
But I think there is a shred of truth to what he's saying there too.
You do do better than a lot of other Wisconsin Democrats in rural areas and other
swinging your parts of the state. So what have you been able to understand about
winning in certain districts where other Democrats have struggled?
And what do other Democrats sometimes get wrong about those parts of Wisconsin?
I try to show up everywhere. And when I do, I try to listen.
And when I listen, I am informed and it informs my work in Washington, D.C. I mean, I think that's
the basic aspect of being a representative in the United States Senate.
And I think I will say showing up matters. So I get all the time. We don't see U.S. Senators in
these parts very often and especially Democrats. But word gets out that I've listened. I've taken
their challenges to heart and that I've proposed solutions and many times gotten them into law.
And I was in one such county. One of the other things I did this past weekend is it's dairy
pride month too. It's pride month and it's dairy pride month. And so I went to one of them.
I went to breakfast on the farm in Richland County, which is a red county for most. But I have one
there. And I was, I was like a job when I go to a dairy breakfast so that I get to meet as many
people as possible. So I'm handing out plastic silverware utensils at the end where everybody's
coming and saying hi. And I got all these people whispering, you know, either you got my phone
because you don't want to say that out loud in a dairy breakfast. But also a lot of people saying
much more loudly, you know, thank you for having the backs of farmers. Now I'm a city kid, right?
I grew up in Madison. But I have worked substantially on agriculture issues and dairy issues.
And words got out. Here's where I think the disconnect is in some ways, you know, that quote you
read from Robin Voss is really interesting because the gerrymandered maps have created the red
districts mostly in rural areas and the blue districts mostly in urban areas. So we no longer,
we when I was in the state legislature, we had Democrats who represented rural areas serving
in the legislature because we had fair maps and you got a real shot at winning. Because you don't,
we have a lot of years where Democrats haven't even run. They look at how deeply read the district
is like, I'd love to serve, but I'm not going to set myself up for failure, which means people in
rural areas have not had a Democrat knocking on their door for 14 years. It's how long we've had
gerrymandered maps. And, you know, and so a lot of times Democrats who are in these rural areas say,
well, my vote really doesn't matter, right? And now I think we're going to see a sea change. We have
97 out of 99 state assembly districts. There is a Democrat running in that district. That's a sea change.
And I think all of the Senate seats that are up have a Democrat running in it.
Yeah, there's a lot of energy around that at the convention this weekend.
Right. So I think we're going to see a bottom-up type of change here. Obviously there's a
presidential race happening, but I think a lot of the energy is going to come from the grassroots
and filter up. We haven't yet mentioned your opponent in this campaign. You're likely to be running
against Eric Havdy. What are your impressions of him and what do you see are some of the biggest
differences between between you and Mr. Havdy? Yeah. Well, let me tell you what I know about him.
He was born and raised in Wisconsin, but left the state to pursue a career after he graduated
from college and spent 24 years running a hedge fund in Washington, DC. And then more recently,
he has been based in California running a bank, the $3 billion bank that he owns called Sun West Bank.
And he owns a $7 million home in Laguna Beach, California.
And it doesn't strike me as the person who really gets Wisconsin. And then as he mounted his campaign
and we hear what he has to say, it's really clear that he doesn't get the people of Wisconsin who
are really hardworking people and just want to get ahead. But he seems much more in tune with the
bankers and the well-connected and the powerful. And Wisconsinites need somebody who's just
fighting for them. And standing up to those very corporate interests and other interests that are
trying to stack the deck in their favor. On issues, we couldn't be more different.
You know, in the wake of Roe being overturned and Wisconsin having a statute on the books that
was passed in 1849. And that was not a misstatement. It was 1849, 173 years ago, a criminal abortion
ban. And he said that he's 100% opposed to abortion rights. I was a champion of writing the
Affordable Care Act. And it includes my provision that allows young people to stay on their parents'
health insurance until they turn 26, give them a running start on their careers. I have to
would repeal it in its entirety. And then the things he said that are so insulting to Wisconsinites,
you know, people in nursing homes shouldn't vote. I mean, it goes on and on. So we couldn't be
more different. You know, one of the main things that themes that I've noticed from the
campaign is to tie you to President Joe Biden. Biden's approval rating in Wisconsin,
according to the latest Marquette University Law School poll, is at just 40%. Yours is a little
bit higher. But when you step back separate from the polls, separate from the campaign,
what is your big picture assessment of how the Biden presidency has gone so far? Obviously,
you've had a slim Democratic majority in the Senate during his presidency. You know, as you
take a step back that 30,000 foot view, what is your view of the Biden presidency?
In terms of legislative accomplishments, it is one of the most successful administrations
in generations. And passing legislation that will have generational impact that will unfold
over the course of the next decade is really striking. And I think if I had a criticism of the
Biden campaign, is that I think a lot of folks are benefiting from the accomplishments of
this administration and haven't connected the dots that this came to you because of Joe Biden
and the Democratic majority in each house in the first two years of his term. So I'm talking about
the infrastructure legislation. We had the civil engineers get together every, I think,
his four years and give a scorecard grade of our infrastructure. And we were like c-minus.
We're the richest country on earth, and yet we were allowing our bridges to collapse,
and our infrastructure to degrade. And we had not yet captured the aspiration of having everybody
have access to high-speed broadband, no matter where you lived. And you know, that accomplishment
is huge. The Inflation Reduction Act, which name doesn't really tell you what it does,
but it strikingly lowers the cost of prescription medication and vaccines. And it is the biggest
investment we have had to combat climate change ever. It should result in 40 percent reduction
in carbon emissions by the year 2030. We're seeing solar and wind and the move towards
electric vehicles really be bolstered by that legislation. And obviously we need to do more.
But I just think, first gun safety legislation in 30 years, the Respect for Marriage Act
in terms of civil rights protections. And the list goes on. If you look at the way in which
President Biden and the Senate have worked together to bring judges into the federal judiciary
who look like America, more, he's nominated more women than men and judges of color.
What a change. And again, this is going to impact folks for decades to come. But what Joe Biden
needs to do in his campaign is claim that credit. I did this. And then we obviously talk about
our accomplishments. And I do all the time in terms of including by America provisions in every
one of those pieces of infrastructure and inflation reduction act legislation. And
you know, the other issues that we've championed. But yeah, I think once people understand,
you know, when Trump was president, during the beginning of the COVID, he's signed the checks.
You're right, that he sent out. You know, Biden's much more humble than that, but at some point.
You think he needs his equivalent of signing those checks, perhaps in a way?
I mean, I think about the child tax credit being increased during the height of the pandemic
so that parents could struggling, you know, to get through that very, very difficult time.
But he didn't say, you know, I sent you these. It just appeared in people's, you know,
in people's accounts. Now one thing that's, you know, obviously over the last four years,
the decisions made by the US Supreme Court have had a huge impact on the country. Obviously,
you mentioned before the overturn of Roe v Wade, you've drafted the Women's Health Protection Act
to address that. But there, you know, obviously another major responsibility of the Senate is
confirming those appointments to the US Supreme Court. There was an interesting column I read today
at Vox that argued that both or one or both of the Supreme Court justices nominated by President
Obama, Justice Kagan and Justice Sotomayor, should step down while there is a Democratic president
and a Democratic majority in the Senate. What are your thoughts on that? I can see both sides of
this one. What do you think? I would not press, I mean, they're both such impressive justices.
And, you know, unless one of them for their own personal reasons was ready to retire,
that's, you know, that's, that's their choice. That's their choice. It's the lifetime appointment
at this point. But I would just underscore with the role of the President plays in filling vacancies
on the court that it is so essential that we reelect Joe Biden and not Donald Trump, who got the
opportunity to place three justices that were vetted by conservative groups like the Federalist
Society and the Heritage Foundation and others, they were hand picked to overturn Roe v Wade.
And Trump will say so. He said, you know, blame me or credit me whichever way you look at it,
he takes credit for the overturning of Roe v Wade. And there's lots of other damaging things that
a future Supreme Court could do. As they hinted at in the DOBS decision, which was the one
that overturned Roe v Wade, we cannot afford to have another Trump presidency where you might
hear the the converse of your question, which would be for Justice Thomas, Clarence Thomas,
and Justice Alito to step down voluntarily so that he would get two more young justices approved
who would serve for, you know, for many decades to come. I know we're running a little short on time
here, but last question before I let you go, you know, the leadership at here in Milwaukee. I've
got to ask a Milwaukee question while we're here. Leadership here in Milwaukee has undergone a
sea change during your your term here with County Executive David Crowley, Mayor Cavalier Johnson.
What has your experience been like working with this new wave of leadership in Milwaukee? And
what are some of the projects that you're hoping to to bring to Milwaukee? I know there was the
meeting you had last week with the Secretary of Commerce about the tech hub in Milwaukee. What are
some of the things that you're working for for the city and County there? Yeah, well, first of all,
I just love both David Crowley and Cavalier Johnson and I have gotten a chance. I met them before
they were elected to these offices and just so excited to see their new leadership. And one of
the issues that I worked with both of them on is the issue of housing. We have a housing crisis.
There's a lot of things that are sort of in crisis right now, but the affordability of housing,
the availability of housing. And there's some unique aspects to those challenges in Milwaukee County
and Milwaukee, the city. And so with each of them separately, we've looked at what those challenges
are and how I can play a role in helping alleviate them. One thing we see in the city of Milwaukee
in particular is outside groups like private equity, buying up dozens, if not hundreds of homes.
That means they're not available for potential first home buyers. They will be rental units.
And it's out of state landlords that are private equity firms. So if you need a repair,
or you know, it's a big issue and it's affecting the availability. But one of the things that I
got to work on with both the mayor and the county executive is how can we make a win-win situation
out of four closed properties that are owned by the city. Are there funds that we can work together
to find, to allow them to be rehabilitated and allow work opportunities for apprentices and
carpentry and electricians and plumbing to get them up to skill and then make the home available
to a first time home buyer living in the community and really look at elevating the housing stock
that's available. And so there's on multiple fronts we're working on housing together and I've
been able to bring some federal funds to the task. But there's many other ways mental health
services and making sure those are available and that we're trading folks in mental health crisis
with services not jail. And so there's a lot of work I've done with both the mayor and the county
exec on those things. You're always do a lot of constituent services work and I think a lot of your
constituents like those of us here in Milwaukee do appreciate that. And so Senator Baldwin,
thank you so much for your being so generous with your time and thank you for joining us in
the Recombobulation Area. Do I feel do we feel recombobulated? I feel more recombobulated
after this interview. Absolutely. Thank you.
Thank you all for listening to this podcast, a presentation of the Recombobulation Area.
This interview was recorded and next to that podcast media and edited by me Dan Schaefer.
The Recombobulation Area is a reader funded independently owned political opinion column
and an online publication covering the discombobulating politics of Milwaukee in Wisconsin.
Subscribe to help support our work. Thank you for recombobulating with us. We'll see you next time.
