Welcome everybody to Midday Magazine for this Thursday, March 27th, 2025.
Have your host, James here.
We're joined right now by Jen McNally, Natural Resource Groundwater Educator with UW-Madison
Extension.
Jen, always good to see you.
Thanks for being here.
Yeah, thanks for having me.
James, happy to be here.
Jen and I are going to throw our outline and just talk Badger Hockey, the rest of the
show.
Absolutely.
My squeaky voice.
It was proof that I was busy yelling at the game on Sunday.
We spent a lot of our pregame talking about the UW-Badgers, ladies hockey team, but congratulations
to them again.
That had to be so much fun to take it.
I'm so jealous.
Absolutely.
Unbelievable game to watch.
We do have a job to do, I guess, but we do have a really, you always bring in great topics
for us.
And ones that I think are interesting, but also really informative.
And this one right now, and I don't know if this timed out well for you or you timed it
out well, but we are a little worried about flooding and some things right now with some
of the change we're having from winter to spring and some of that.
So our main topic today is groundwater, Jen.
It is.
It happens to be just lucky timing on behalf of everything that's happened, yeah.
But the beginning of March is actually National Groundwater Awareness Week, and so that's
why I was like, oh, this seems to fit well.
And the flooding thing just happens to be, yeah, this time of year is everything is melting
and people generally start thinking about water in the spring anyway.
This is a terminology that most people hear, and they just keep moving.
But I think getting into what groundwater is is really helpful and really informative
for people, because to be honest, I was one of these people.
I kind of feel like I knew what groundwater was.
I start reading over your notes, doing like two seconds of homework, and I'm like, oh,
okay, I need to talk to Jen.
I need to know a little bit more about this.
It really was one of those things that was very eye opening to me.
Yeah, we talk about it frequently, are we hearing news and articles, and don't really take
the time to think, always process what that means.
And so groundwater, especially for us here in Central Wisconsin, is kind of an easy thing.
It's essentially water that's stored underground, it's in the name groundwater.
That doesn't mean I want to take a minute to clarify.
There are no underground lakes or rivers or streams down there.
I think it was an old ham's commercial, maybe, that had groundwater coming from Canada.
Great reference.
That doesn't exist.
So really all it is is it's water that's stored in between the soil particles or the rocks
that are underground.
So that is really kind of simple as what it is.
The ground essentially acts like a sponge, and water soaks into it, and it fills up
those spaces.
Once the spaces are all completely filled with water, that's what we call an aquifer.
Some of you have maybe heard of that in terms of like drinking water and stuff.
So that aquifer is just where those spaces are filled.
And actually here in Wood County, a hundred percent of their residents get their drinking
water from aquifers and groundwater, which make it kind of an important topic to be talking
of.
Absolutely.
Wow.
And that I think would be eye opening to a lot of people knowing that.
That's very interesting.
Yeah, exactly.
Especially when we have such a big like Wisconsin River here, I think sometimes the consumption
is just like that's where a drinking water comes from, and it really isn't.
We're pumping it up from from underground.
Does groundwater move Jeff?
Yeah, absolutely.
It does not stay in one place.
Nothing never really does.
So groundwater is kind of lazy.
It likes to go from points of high elevation to low elevation.
So wherever it's so sand to, it's going to be trying to get to the lowest point on
the landscape.
You know which those lowest points are typically places like the Wisconsin River out there.
And so groundwater is naturally trying to discharge or flow out to those places.
So in Central Wisconsin, we say on average groundwater moves about a foot per day on average,
which is actually kind of quick in the green, in the green scheme of the high fasted mobs.
I am going to throw in a super fun fact here that I kind of geek out a little bit about.
We live in kind of a unique area.
So I'm sure most folks have heard of like the Continental Divide in the Western US.
We actually have the subcontinental divide.
So the second largest divide in the US right over East and Portage County.
Whoa.
Yeah.
So where the Green Bay low bobs of glaciers came down, it stopped partway through Portage County.
And when it stopped, it deposited a whole bunch of materials.
So if you drive east like towards Appleton, you'll go up and over a really big hill.
That is the terminal marine where that glacier stopped and that is a subcontinental divide.
Oh my God, that's awesome.
I know.
Right?
Things you never knew about your backyard, right?
In my mind.
The reason it's so important to groundwater is because that subcontinental divide actually divides
where water flows.
So east of that hill, I'm in British County at flows towards Lake Michigan and goes out
towards the Atlantic Ocean with a western part of Portage County and all of Wood County.
We're in the Mississippi River Basin and that's flowing out towards the Gulf of Mexico.
So major divide in terms of where water flows and how it affects the larger US and world.
It's, you know, we started talking about this as informative information, but I told you
to be some fun stuff.
Yeah, right.
That is so interesting.
I did not know that.
That is really, really interesting.
That's a pretty cool fun fact.
Now, where does groundwater come from exactly?
Sure.
So groundwater, most I will originate from precipitation.
So rain, in our case, snow, lately, sleep, anything that's falling down.
And once that precipitation hits the ground, it really has two places to go.
Either it's going to run off the land surface or it's going to soak in.
When it soaks in, then it becomes groundwater.
So really precipitation is our biggest source of that.
And it's a really local resource, meaning that it comes from pretty close by.
So if you're wondering the general area that contributes, like, say to your own private
well and your property, you can usually go out about a half mile.
And that's about where the water that feeds into your well is coming from.
So super close, it's not coming from far away, which makes a kind of unique in that respect
to think about, like, we're influencing our water resources on a very small scale.
Something to keep in mind as well, with what we're doing with the land.
Yeah, exactly.
And there are a number of factors that'll influence, like, how far or how fast it'll travel.
Big ones are the type of geology and soils that it's traveling through.
So for folks in, like, Southeastwood County, they have more sandy soils.
That's going to be much quicker.
Water is going to, you know, if you've ever played in a sandbox, you kind of know that water
soaks into sand really easy and it can travel very quickly.
Also makes it super easy to pump out of the ground down there, which is why I got a lot
of irrigation and you know, needed agriculture.
And those parts, if you go to areas like Rudolph in Wood County, you're going to see,
like, especially this time of year, a lot more standing water on the landscape.
And that's because those soils have more clay in it.
Again, if you've ever played with clay, you know that water doesn't soak into it very easily.
So it can explain even what's happening and what you see happening on our landscape
with our water as well, which is kind of cool.
Very, very unique to hear with the, you know, because it's one of those things we've
really kind of normalized in this area, but just even taking rapids or central Wisconsin
here, we've got so many different types of soil and land in this area.
Going back to the glacier that you were talking about earlier, and that's really the biggest
driving force with those glaciers that shaped our landscape.
Yeah, and it can vary wildly from one place to another.
So I mean, sucker for anything history related and especially this kind of topic with the way
that our, we have Canadian soil here and things like that and all that, how they evolved.
It's just fascinating to me.
And for this one, in particular, there's another part of this one to get into and why
groundwater is important, because this is a, this is part of where all this ties together.
Yeah, absolutely.
So it was like we said, 100% of folks in, in what county get their drinking water from groundwater,
which makes it like, in my opinion, super important, because that's where we get our drinking water from.
But the other thing is is, as that groundwater is moving, it's just charging to those surface
waters. And so even the water that we see on the landscape is being fed by groundwater.
And so when it comes to talking about like management of water resources in one county,
we consider them really one resource, because our groundwater is feeding into those surface
waters, our surface waters are feeding into our groundwater. So if you enjoy recreating on,
like say the Wisconsin River or the local lakes, that's another great reason to care about
groundwater is because those two things are so closely tied together.
And there's, man, the layers to this topic, because immediately one of the things I can help
at the way my brain works and doing this show for so many years is, you know, we, I understand
our audience fairly well. And one of the things we know there's a lot of people that are really
engaged with this conversation and listening. And there are people maybe who are listening
like, well, what does this have to do with me or how does it affect my life? Do you pay taxes?
Yeah. Do you do? Do you care about our economy? Because so much of the economy here in Wisconsin
is water-based. Whether we're talking water activities or we have the world's largest water park
in this state. Yeah, right. Exactly. It plays a pretty big factor in here. And an even bigger
factor when you think about the fact that up north, how much they've been hurt by the lack of snow,
and how much more dependent they are in the summer, spring months to bring people up north
with water activities. Among other things, of course, of what we're using it for cooking and
cleaning and all this other stuff, yeah, water's pretty great. Water's pretty important.
And with the topic of PFAS that has been quite prevalent over the last couple of decades,
where I think it's every other time I have representative Kruggen, we're talking about it.
Yeah, absolutely. This is one of those, like one of the bigger topics when it comes to
that affects everybody. And we can say very comfortably, there's nobody out there listening that
isn't affected by water and why this is important. And I think you've done an amazing job of
kind of giving us details of that, Jen. What I would like to do with the time remaining we have
is put a real focus on how we can help protect our groundwater and what we can do to be a part of
the solution of this. Yeah, absolutely. I think you made a really good point when you said that
this affects everyone. So, you know, I always like to point out to folks that we never get any new
water on our planet. We just, we keep reusing the same water that we have for decades and eons
and millions of years. I'm sorry to cut you off, but you set me up so perfectly. One of my favorite
lines in TV history in the sopranos, he says to his son, by land, God ain't making any more of it.
That's exactly it. It is the exact same thing as the water. It's a great reminder of that, though.
Right. Exactly. You know, when it rains, oh, there's fresh water. Well, no, it's just continuing
to go through the water cycle. And so, we really have to be extremely careful with what we have
and how we use it. And so, I think one of the biggest things that people can do is simply to be
aware, you know, and to understand how this, how what we're doing on the landscape affects our water
resources potentially. So, I think just kind of understanding and kind of keeping that in the back
of your head can really help with things like that. And so, you know, there's simple things that
people can do in their everyday lives. Whatever we put on the land, and however we use the land,
is going to affect groundwater because either A, it's going to run off of the land surface,
or it's potentially going to soak in to their ground. And so, that's for things like fertilizers
or chemicals, oil, gas, you know, any of those things that we think about, salt is another one.
You and I have talked about in the past that most people don't necessarily think of as like
contaminating, but not not great in large amounts. And so, we have to we really want to be cognizant
when we're putting those things or applying them that we're not applying too much, or that we're
not disposing of them in a way that really harms them. This area in particular has been pretty on
this point, and especially with our, you know, we have a couple of events every year where you can
dispose of these kind of things. Yeah. Some of that. I see I don't see that in as many areas,
so I'm very proud of that, and I appreciate that. It's also something that we're all,
and this isn't just our area, all of us are late to this. Yeah. We're all making up lost time
on this one. This is a topic that we're not ahead of the curve on. We're behind on this one.
So all the more reason why we really need to be on these things going forward. And it's part of
the reason why not only do I love talking to you and talking to somebody that knows what they're
talking about with this topic, but the insight that you have to things that I don't think a lot of us
would have thought of even that are engaged with these topics. As I mentioned earlier,
I mean, talking about clean water and PFAS for almost 10 years now on the air here.
With one thing I did not think about though is our septic systems. Yeah. You know,
we, it is water, you know, we made that, but I don't put that connection there very often. No,
no, and a lot of, I mean, I would you necessarily think about it, but so one of the common misconceptions,
I think with septic systems is that they treat water like like our utilities treat our water
or clean it up. And that really isn't the job of septic systems at all. Their main job is to
settle out all of the solids that are flushed down the toilet. So, you know, solid waste material,
toilet paper, those type of things. Though that's what that first septic tank as far as that,
those solids settle out of there. And then the water generally depending on the type of septic
system you have is discharged directly into the ground. And the portion, that portion of the septic
system is designed to treat bacteria that can make people sick. It doesn't take out chemicals.
It doesn't take out nutrients like nitrogen and phosphorus that naturally come from our waste
stream. It doesn't treat things like pharmaceuticals. So we also really want to be careful. Like,
if you have a private septic system, what you're dumping down your drains even.
So super harsh chemicals can be really hard. Greasy material is not always great for that.
And then things like pharmaceuticals that sometimes, you know, we're told to flush them because
that's a way to dispose of them that aren't going to put, you know, other people at risk
from consuming them. But that really is not great for our water resources where we can actually
test and detect those materials. The harmful, the harmfulness of those, those pharmaceutical
products, it defeats the point, you know, if you're throwing it into your tank and everything,
you're just kind of like, you know, and putting it into our earth. And that's why those
events are so important. And we'll be talking more about those as we hear more about our
renew events and some of those. But I do want to thank all the volunteers and all the people that
host those and do those events that you're hearing more and more from Jen here of how important
that is. Yeah. So, you know, our solid hazardous waste events, those pickups, and then like the
pharmaceutical take back programs or like the sheriff's department and stuff. Those are great
options for people to utilize to get rid of those without kind of putting them back into our water
resources. So, so definitely be on the lookout for those in the local communities.
Another thing to keep in aware of, and I think this is one, maybe one of the more
familiar ones to people, but a great reminder and some other notes on about how much water we use.
Oh, yeah. Absolutely. It's a little hard to talk about that when we got spring and
flooding. We got too much. So, you know, the aquifers fluctuate up and down with how much
precipitation may use. And dry years, the aquifers are naturally going to be a little bit lower.
In what years they're going to naturally be a little bit higher. And so, sometimes we don't
always think about it in terms of how much water we use, but if we are using excessively large
amounts of water, especially in those dry times of years, that can really put a stress
not only on our aquifers, but they're also the ones that are feeding our surface waters. And
that's why we sometimes see like really low surface water levels happening is because
they're not being fed by as much ground water. So, and it goes back to that hole, we never
get any new water kind of thing either too. So, yeah, you know, the old adage that we used to
hear when our kids about shut the water off when you brush your teeth, there's a lot of value in
that and just being aware of how much we're utilizing. You know, and something else that
comes that occurs to me with this gen two two things really one,
one were none of these side effects may include. Like, there's no real downside to doing
the all of these things. It's not as if you do these, the any of these things, everything
gen is set here. And there's some like side effect to it or anything like that. They're,
they're all positives. Sometimes they're positives you may not be able to see, but you can taste
in your water or feel in your water. And, and a big thing with this one that I really want to
hit home to people and I do this anytime water, this subject really comes up and subjects like this.
In our day to day lives, we hear of so many issues and so many different things going on.
And every person that has a cause that they care about, they want to tell you that this is the
biggest cause in the world and I don't blame them because it is to them and I understand that.
There are a few topics that literally touch every one of us and affect every single person out
there. Man, woman, child, red, yellow, purple, whatever color you are, whatever age range you are,
who you vote for, what you are in your tax bracket, it don't matter, water, don't care.
It affects all of us and this is universally one of those topics. And with that, I imagine it can
seem pretty overwhelming sometimes and like, oh, well, how do you fix something like that?
Well, here's the beauty of all of this, everybody, that we can do that. We have the power to be
able to do that and we don't need to wait to do these things. We don't need to, you know, have a
bill passed or something like that. This is something that every individual out there listening,
we can all make an impact on this. Absolutely. And it's relatively small changes too.
It's not radical shifts and how you live your life or anything, which I think is so refreshing
sometimes. Years ago, my mom and dad really were adamant about shower times. And I remember
at first, my sister and I are in high school. So of course, this is a good idea. How dare you
would all this? The world will end. Yes, exactly. We're still doing it. Spoiler alert, it was a
long time. High school was a long time ago. But we're still doing this. Even living on my own,
I find myself doing this. These things really, once you start doing them, they just become so
routine and helpful, especially when it comes to disposing of some of these things, like Jen was
talking about, where we understand for a long time, people just didn't know any better or just didn't,
you know, did what they did. No, gosh, the pharmaceutical thing, I think it's even come about in terms
of like the length of my career, which has not been that long. You know, we started being able
to detect these things and figured, oh, yeah, these things aren't just disappearing. They're sticking
around and we can still find them. Giving, you know, I think taking away any guilt or shame or
judgment on these things is really important because we're all learning. We're all trying to get
we're all on the same page. I believe that we want clean water. We want a clean planet.
So working together on this one is important. And certainly sharing information, the things we've
heard today, share this interview with those that you know out there. And Jen, if people want to
learn more about some of what we talked about today, how can you do that? Sure. So there's some
really great resources. So if you're more interested in kind of the technical information of like
what the heck is groundwater or even drinking water for that matter, a couple of great resources
to go to, the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources, always a good one when it comes to
anything natural resources related. So you can simply go to the DNR.gov website and
go put in groundwater into their search bar and all sorts of things are going to pop up.
One that Alton Lada folks may not be familiar with is the Wisconsin Geologic and Natural History
Survey. So they specialize in geology and soils, but they also specialize in how water interacts
with those things. And they have some really fantastic resources. They are also part of extension.
So you can you can find them through our website. The Wood County Extension website has some
resources related to groundwater and drinking water. Of course, my contact information is on there
and I am always happy to talk about groundwater. So I'm a good place. But there are in fact some
citizen groups out there too. And you know, in talking about what the heck can people do about this.
If they are really passionate about it, I would encourage them to find, you know, a group of
like-minded people that might be able to support them. So the citizens' water group of Wood County
is a good one. And you can find them on their Facebook page as the best way to get a hold of them.
So I encourage you to do that everybody. Again, the website whisk.edu is where you can go for all
kinds of extension information and so much what we talked about today and to reach out to Jen.
I can't thank you enough for the information and the time. Great talking to you.
Perfect. Thanks James.
Jen and I are going to talk UW Badger hockey now. We'll be back on our show coming up on the morning.
Our midday magazine here.
