You're listening to Perspective on WFHR 1320 a.m.
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I'm Melissa K bringing you news in our community during this interview I'm talking with Audrey Day and Emily Aitzman with the Southwood County neighbors for responsible development on Wednesday June 17th Thank you for joining me Audrey and Emily to talk about the Southwood County neighbors for responsible development and what your group is working to do Thank you for being here today.
Thanks for having us.
Yeah, thank you.
We appreciate it so
If you could just start with a brief overview of what the Southwood County Neighbors for Responsible Development is and how you formed and what you're working toward.
Yeah, so we are a nonpartisan group of concerned citizens that came together very rapidly right when we found out about this data center proposal.
But we are in favor of responsible development as it says in our name and we just do not feel that
Hyperscale data centers, large data centers fit that bill.
Okay.
And how many members are formed the leadership in this group and what are you doing?
That's a tricky question.
There's a few of us that are more active than we have a ton of people offering their time or resources to help us as well.
I'd say there's about five.
Yeah.
Five core people, I think, and we have a group of people who are community members or, you know, full-time workers or retired people or whatever it may be helping us out as well.
I'd say what we're trying to do is bring education and awareness to the issue of hyperskill data centers and what issues it might pose in the Rapids community, especially on the river.
And I think most importantly, we're trying to make sure we're collaborating with the city on the best path forward for the residents.
Okay, now you've held several events.
You're giving out yard signs for asking for a small donation and other I see you have one of your t-shirts on today.
What are you what are you hearing from community members as you hold these events?
Overall, very positive.
There has not been any, not been a lot of negative.
This, you know, like I said, we're a nonpartisan group.
This is very nonpartisan issue.
It's, you know, protecting our community, protecting the little people against big money.
That is our biggest concern.
So yeah, overall, pretty positive.
And they have been very supportive, especially after that event and with the yard signs, like all these donations have been
put towards buying, you know, the merch that we sell on the yard signs and getting information as well as printing flyers and any other possible avenues that we're going to have to take.
So
yeah.
So let's go back for listeners who weren't able to attend the first event that you held toward the end of April.
Let's just give us a brief overview of what that entailed, who was there and what was talked about.
Sure.
So, Han, what was that?
Monday or Tuesday, there was that article about the data center being on a planning commission meeting.
By Friday, a couple of us had...
accidentally been put into contact with each other by a few people who said, I think you're all working on the same thing.
Why don't you put your heads together?
And at that point, we had contacted Charlie Barron, who has an awesome team and there was some contact with Healthy Climate Wisconsin as well.
Dr. Brittany Keys was extremely helpful in helping us get this off the ground.
And then by Wednesday, the few of us there had a website.
a location for the event.
We had speakers from the Farmers Union.
We had a Port Washington resident, Dr. Brittany Keys from Healthy Climate Wisconsin, and Prescott Bolch, who is a retired tech executive, turned data center, I think educator.
He's also on the village board and the town where he lives, I believe.
Am I missing
anyone?
Erin Leninger from
the Wisconsin Farmers Union.
Oh, Farmers
Union.
She talked about the community benefits agreement.
I think you nailed everybody else but you know just to add on to that like this was and I know we've said it before but this was put together within less than a week we none of us knew each other like we knew each other and a couple other people but for the most part this was a group that like I call it a rag tag group of people that just
you know someone started the Facebook group and then everybody just kind of piled on and then you know like she said we were all like doing various things and then we all kind of came together and then it was became the forming of this ragtag group.
Well you're still together so this is this seems like a positive step forward.
There were between four and five hundred residents that came out to that educational information session at Rams at the end of April and there were also some city
Government officials there as well.
I know the mayor was there one of the older persons for sure possibly more than one State rev too.
Yep.
Yep.
Yep.
Vinnie Marisi was there and what um In talking with people after that event do you feel that that really helped educate people in the area or even just pique their interest to hey, what what's going on here?
I
think so
In my opinion, there were a lot of people in this community who heard about the proposal, but didn't know much about what it meant or what a data center was or what it was used for or what the construction looked like or any of those kinds of things.
So having our guests with a wide range of information from education and statistics to a Port Washington resident who's experiencing one being built in her backyard and showing us photos and videos of what that looks like for her, I think was very impactful.
And we hope it caused people to go and do some more of their own research or learn more about what
that means and how they might want to support it or not support it or what guardrails they're supportive of.
There's a marquette law.
school poll recently, I think earlier this year, I want to say April or May that showed about 70% of Wisconsin voters think the costs outweigh the pros for data centers.
And I think that was mostly reflected in the amount of people who showed up to our event and offered public comments or questions or have followed us on Facebook or offered comments there versus in person.
You know, I'd say that statistic is reflected in Wood County and obviously across Wisconsin.
Okay.
And these events that you've been holding in town to just be available to talk with people, to have people come out and get yard signs or purchase merchandise, what are the conversations like that are happening there?
So
really fascinating, actually.
So we have talked to like a wide range of individuals.
I've talked to people that
have been involved with Quebco.
I've talked to people that are engineers of various different type of engineers.
We've talked to, I mean, all different walks of life within rapids even and outside of rapids because neighboring communities understand that they could be affected by this too.
But yeah, just the information we've received and the information that we pass on,
We try to give as much information as we can even though there's not a lot known so we try to like even with this flyer from like healthy climate, Wisconsin We want to portray the overall hazards and harms of data centers large-scale data centers because you know like she said like it's it wasn't really known especially in certain age populations I feel like but now that understanding is growing and it's such a you know a large consensus of how people feel especially in Wisconsin so
Yeah, it's just growing and we're grateful that everybody came out and that we were to talk to and all the information that we've received and information that we passed on that we can because, you know, our main thing is also transparency.
It's transparency with developers, transparency with our city council, transparency, just with things that will actually affect our community because, you know, that's that's why everybody cares about this, like, because this can directly affect us.
So.
if we should be involved in the decision making at some level, even though I understand it's a private sale to private sale, you know, private entity, private entity, it, there's still things that can be done to where the community can be involved with large decisions.
Let's dig.
Oh, go ahead.
I'm sorry.
I do want to add if you missed our event on April 29th, but want to hear from our speakers.
We do have a recording on our YouTube channel SWC and RD Southwood County neighbors for responsible development.
Okay, so you can find that on YouTube Let's dig into some of this information that you are sharing with constituents because data centers have been around for a long time We we have had data centers I don't remember the actual number of years, but it's been decades But the hyper scale data centers are slightly different.
So and maybe by slightly I mean largely
Let's talk about the differences a little bit.
So,
and this is brought up in the zoning ordinance as well, which, you know, to clarify, we are extremely grateful to our city council that they put a zoning ordinance amendment in there as well.
Because if
they hadn't, they would have no control.
Exactly.
That as well as the conditional use permit.
So we are grateful for that.
I want everybody to know, like, we want to work with our city council as much as possible.
We always have.
That is our goal because we understand to get to, you know, where we want to.
as far as responsible developments, we need to.
So I really want to push that.
But, and you said, sorry, we were talking about.
About some of the concerns,
the
differences between the regular data centers to Hyperscale.
So in the, and like I said, this was brought up in there, it's accessory data centers are different from these large scale Hyperscale data centers.
So accessory data centers have been around forever.
Um, that's been, I think even since like the sixties or something.
Yeah.
I think that's right.
I didn't want to say a number.
Yeah, you want to
be wrong, but it has been decades.
It's been, yeah, it's been a long time.
So those data centers are attached to, um, larger businesses, organizations, like even our health systems, Aspires, Marshall Clinic, they have their own to store all that, all that data somewhere.
Yeah.
The cloud, um, all the software that's needed.
Um, but the, the.
The rise of AI as well as I'd say cloud storage as well as crypto, the rise of all this data has created a need where everybody is rushing to create these giant data centers.
It's extremely different.
These aren't just small warehouses anymore with small amounts of energy or water usage.
These have become so large that they have to be sown to heavy industrial because of the pollution that they can cause.
So these are these are not the same old data centers that we have been used to our whole lives growing up.
If you want to add on to that.
Yeah, I'd say some statistics to share from the Lawrence Berkeley National Lab.
They have compiled some information that shows that in 2023 US data centers consumed 17 billion gallons of water.
And there are estimates that by 2028 that could double or quadruple.
There's stories in Georgia and Arizona of data centers taking water from community or county or city water systems without permits or doing it under the radar and then not experiencing fine.
because they're the largest consumer in that water system.
So there's some concerns, I think, as well about not every data center, but some of them are abusing their privileges or abusing conditional use permits or community benefit agreements or discarding the rules as much as they can.
And that's not fair to people in this community who would have to foot the bill for the electricity or the water or the cleanup from pollution or whatever it may be.
if the data center is going to be built, there has to be enforceable regulations on it.
Okay, well let's take a brief pause here for a moment to hear from our sponsors.
I'm Melissa K talking with Audrey Day and Emily Aitzman with the Southwood County Neighbors for Responsible Development and you're listening to Perspective on 1320 a.m.
975 FM WFHR.
Welcome, you're listening to Perspective on WFHR 1320 AM, 97.5 FM.
I'm Melissa Kay bringing you news in our community.
I'm speaking with Audrey Day and Emily Aitzman with the Southwood County Neighbors for Responsible Development.
And where we left off, we were talking about the difference between a hyperscale data center and the data centers that we've had for decades.
Let's now dive into a little bit of your understanding of the infrastructure needs for these slightly newer hyperscale data centers.
Yeah, so we know just looking at, so they have, they say that they're going to do it in three phases.
It's going to start at like 40 megawatts and then it's going to go up to like 100 megawatts at phase two.
And then by phase three, it's asking for like 150 megawatts.
That is considered a larger scale data center.
So we know that that energy demand for a hyperscale is more than QEPCO can offer.
So the question lies in how are they going to get that energy?
I know that Quebco gets it from elsewhere, but.
We are curious how that is going to end up trickling down to us because if there has to be infrastructure upgrades,
like power lines and transmission lines and something to bring more energy to this area.
Yeah.
So I mean, if things are going to have to get upgraded, which some people say that that is just the way the world works, but we shouldn't have to bear the cost of those upgrades at any level considering these companies make.
billions if not trillions at this point.
So we need to make sure that we are protected, that any rate increase, because even if we're not connected through WWLC, even if it's just Quebco, I think they get it through Alliance, right?
And then we get ours somehow through Alliance.
I don't know all the details that is announced of that.
But I know that eventually the costs do trickle down.
I know that through Midwest Renewable Energy Association, when they talked about it,
They had that.
Meeting right after the one that we have with Charlie Barron's and he it was a wealth of information, which I wish it was still available.
Unfortunately, I didn't know live streams deleted after 30 days, but I'm trying to get more information about that.
But I know that the as far as being a right pair, those costs do affect us, especially
on because of the grid.
Yes.
Even on a statewide, countrywide, I mean, it will affect us.
The more power that's being used, like those rates do trickle.
I mean, that that cost does trickle down to us.
So we need to make sure that we're protected.
and that they are covering 100% of every cost, especially through the Public Service Commission.
I know that that's been brought up recently, so...
Yeah, these companies have been asking state regulators and the PSC, the Public Service Commission, to loosen the regulations about...
cost sharing or offloading costs onto ratepayers.
And thankfully, I believe the PSC has said no, they will not be loosening those regulations.
For now, I don't know how or if or when that would change in Wisconsin or in Wood County specifically.
I know in other states, people have already seen the...
Excuse me their electric bills go up
because of
the data centers popping up next door and across the street and down the road in the county next door
Well, and even in the recent recent history all of our rates have been going up
incrementally throughout the course of the last several years.
I know my energy bills have increased.
So what questions would you have for the developer?
If you were able to just sit down and have a conversation with Wisconsin Holdings, PSE Holdings or whatever the name of this.
PCH.
Thank you.
Wisconsin PCH Holdings.
What questions would you like to ask them?
Well, one of my big questions would be
They say they mentioned that they have no heavy chemicals used or being discharged through a wastewater treatment system, which I find that hard to believe because how else are they if they don't have chemicals in their closed loop system, if they don't have things to prevent corrosion and rust and microbial growth, then I don't understand that.
So if I want to know if they are using chemicals first off.
you know, which chemicals are being used, how that would go into our wastewater system, because our wastewater system, our wastewater treatment facility does not currently treat for PFA's.
So PFA, PFA AO or PFA PFOS.
PFOS, PFOS, PFOS, there's like different kinds, but they do not currently treat for that.
And I know that for a fact, because we talked to them.
But it's, it, so if we were to increase that level,
of PFA.
So let's say that there are chemicals that are going to be discharged in our wastewater system.
Who's going to pay for that?
Because filtering that out, that is not cheap.
Are we going to cover the cost of that?
I want to know who foots the bill.
How will that be?
How do we prevent more PFA, PFAS anything from getting into our system and our waterways?
So that would be one of my questions.
As far as
You know, I have questions about the pollution from the generators that are going to be used.
They have 18 to 24 that they're estimating.
I don't know if you've ever seen a large generator and how much pollution that that actually can give off in effect, the local residents in that area.
So I want to know how they're going to mitigate that.
You know, I know that they have to meet local state, federal EPA laws, but we also know that some restrictions have been a little bit lessened lately through the EPA.
So we want to make sure.
that were protected.
I'm trying to think of some other questions that I have off the top of my head for these developers.
My biggest concern, I think, is the health impacts of the pollution and not just necessarily at the doctor, the social determinants of health when your bill goes higher and now you have less food for groceries.
What are you going to do?
Medical bills are higher because of the noise pollution or the land or the water or the air pollution.
What are you going to do when you don't have that money because your medical bills are higher?
and your electricity bills are higher
and those
kinds of things.
Emissions from a fossil fuel power at one single Northern Virginia data center could result in up to 99 million in annual health damages, primarily in premature mortality and respiratory disease, according to the Piedmont Environmental Council, which I find horrific.
If one data center can be responsible for that much damage, what does that mean for the community here?
And another thing I would ask them to is that
specifically for infrastructure, like infrasound, the vibrations that can affect people's sleep quality, mental health, I mean, physical health, even, um, how is that going to be regulated?
Because our noise ordinances and everything are about, you know, decibel levels and stuff.
So when these frequencies are lower and they're not going to meet that threshold, how is that going to be prevented?
I mean, how much, how much infrastructure and, you know,
putting stuff around the building to soften dud in it or whatever, is it really actually going to end up being dud in like, is that is that still going to be there?
And because once it's constructed, I mean, I know that they can kind of force them to go back, but you know,
their places in the US right now being sued because of the noise pollution, the data centers are inflicting upon the people who live around where it's built because it is a relentless 24 seven day and night.
But taking it to the courts does take
time, money, energy, resources, and I'm sure the people in whatever town it's built have far fewer resources than the massive company who built it.
So let's talk for a little bit about the community benefit agreement that Aaron from the Farmers Union talked about during that initial meeting there at the end of April.
What is a community benefit agreement and how would that help?
So from our understanding, which isn't super expansive right now, so forgive us.
We call this learning as we're building the plane
or we're flying as
we're building the plane.
That is
building
the plane as we're flying
it.
Flying
by the seat of our pants, trying our best.
I mean, we're just a handful of some of us educated individuals that are not experts in any fields like this.
We just know how to talk to other people about it.
But as far as like a CBA,
I know that we can put in what we want as a community that the developer has to sign on and agree to that in order to continue to build here.
It's basically an agreement between the city and the developer as far as I understand.
things
that need to be in there.
Yeah, that need to be involved.
But yeah, I mean, it's basically an agreement.
Like, if you're going to come here, this is what we want out of you.
We want, you know, we want to have a park nearby.
We want to have this built over here.
We want money to be put back, you know, towards our education system.
We want,
I mean, we could third party reports on the environmental impacts on this kind of a schedule and we might get to pick who does them.
Oh,
yeah.
And, you know, having somebody that's low.
that works there, that lives in the city, that has to- More
of a
vested interest.
Exactly, yeah.
Or, you know, job quotas.
You could even put, I think at a statewide level, we could even, it's past the city, I think, but there could be like a bond that's put in place, but I think maybe even the city can do it, I don't know.
But a bond where they have to put the money in towards that salaries that they say they're gonna have, like if they're gonna have-
you know, 200 people, which it doesn't even say it really in the conditional use comments.
So we don't even know
the average
data center has 18.4 employees.
Yeah.
So that's another
question.
I want to be the point for it.
Yeah.
No.
And that's another question I have is like, how many jobs is this actually going to provide?
Because we know that construction phase is the most, you know, temporary jobs.
We don't even know if they're going to be local.
And then how many permanent jobs are we going to be left with?
Are those even going to be people that live here that get those jobs?
So a bond would actually say they have to put
into this whatever bond that they're going to give that amount of salary.
per X amount of people for the next 10 years and they can't touch that.
So there's things we could ask for.
There is protections that can be put into place.
Well, in our last couple of minutes here, we talked before we started this interview about getting in touch with your older persons, communicating with city and local government officials to be involved in this process.
What do you hope that the community members will do here?
We are hoping that they will reach out to their older persons.
You can find out who your older person is on the Wisconsin Rapid City website,
which is
wirapids.gov.
Thank you very much.
It is.
They've got emails and phone numbers likely listed at both places.
And we encourage you to contact them with respectful questions, ask for meetings or communications or information.
Your older persons don't know how you feel unless you tell them.
And that's not just for the data center.
That goes for anything that's happening in the city or the county that they have involvement in.
You have to tell them how you're feeling, what you're asking for, what your concerns are in order to be heard.
And I think our big takeaway and
working on this is we have to work with the city, not against them on this.
If we want a common goal, if we want success, whatever that may look like, we have to work with them and not against them.
And I think we also really understand that a lot of the city officials were probably given a very one-sided pitch about this data center.
And there is responsibility for them and the community to show them that what they heard might not be true or might not be the full picture either.
Well, I really do appreciate both of you coming in today.
I'm Melissa Kay, speaking with Audrey Day and Emily Aitman with the Southwood County Neighbors for Responsible Development.
Thank you for talking with me today, Emily and Audrey.
Thank you!
And thank you to listeners joining us for news in our community on Perspective, 1320 a.m.
975 FM WFHR.
