Port Edwards School District Event – School Voucher Transparency

You're listening to Perspective on WFHR, 1320 AM, 97.5 FM.

I'm Melissa Kaye, bringing you news in our community.

During this interview, I'm talking with Port Edwards District Administrator and Ed Hoyer Elementary School Principal, James Beena, on Wednesday, May 13th.

Thank you for joining me, Jim, to give the community an update from the Port Edwards School District.

Good morning, Melissa.

Thank you very much for having me today.

Always a pleasure.

And we have a special guest on the phone today, Denise Garmer Hutchison.

the Northeast Regional Organizer for Wisconsin Public Education Network, who will be giving a presentation on May 28th at 6.30 at the John Edwards High School.

Denise will be talking about the voucher transparency program.

Thank you for joining us today, Denise.

Thank you, Melissa.

It's great to be here.

So if we could, before we dive into this, James, give us a brief overview of the voucher system, how it started, and where it's progressed to now.

Absolutely.

School vouchers began a few decades ago.

They started in southeastern Wisconsin through the Milwaukee Public School Choice.

program in which parents had the opportunity to choose a different school for their child to attend.

It expanded into Racine County and now school vouchers have expanded significantly across Wisconsin.

Parents now have the opportunity to apply for school vouchers and they can

have their child attend a private school or a parochial school.

And the issue that we're going to be discussing on Thursday, May 28th in the John Edwards High School gym is the impact of this on the public school funding from Wisconsin.

And one of our speakers is going to be Denise Gomer Hutchison.

And we are welcoming Denise today.

So Denise I'm glad you're here for this because this is a complicated topic if you could break this down for us and why this is important to understand Voucher The transparency that needs to be there.

Well, thanks Melissa and James.

It's great to be here Yes, this is a big issue.

It's a big issue because taxpayers Don't right now taxpayers do not know where their tax dollars are

going

And so when you do doors and talk to people in communities or you do community sessions in our public schools across the state when you're going to go to referenda and they say, well, why do you need this money?

And it's because they think from looking at their tax bill, taxpayers think from looking at their tax bill that the tax that they are paying that's designated on their present tax bill is the amount that's going to their public schools.

And

it's not.

And right now, the taxpayers are being misled when they don't have a clear picture of where their tax dollars are going.

So Wisconsin Public Education Network, a few years ago, when in 2016, the state of Wisconsin decided to move the cost of vouchers from the general fund and put it in the education fund.

And that meant that the cost of those vouchers was going to go into the money that was being used to pay for public education.

And so bills were written by legislators to put the cost on the tax bill of the cost of vouchers.

And it never even got a hearing on the floor.

So in 2018, Wisconsin Public Education Network, the organization I work for,

decided we needed to step in and do something about this.

And so we talked to school boards around the state and we said, write a resolution just to bring attention to this and see what can happen.

And so some school districts did it.

It didn't take off like we thought it would and it was just a kind of, it was a process.

And so then we went back and said, okay, how do we need to change this and how do we need to make this more

feasible for public schools to bring this attention.

And we created a plan and we put it together and we took it to, we started with the Green Bay Area Public School District because they're hit pretty hard with the cost and the impact of private school vouchers.

And we went to the school board, they wrote their resolution, they sent it to the mayor and said, please take this to your city council and please have this put

on our tax bill so that taxpayers in the community understand where their tax dollars are going and so that they understand that this is not happening because of what we're doing with their funds in public schools because they never have those funds.

So Green Bay did the process.

There are actually nine municipalities that make up the Green Bay area public school districts.

So we're talking to, we've talked to

all of those nine municipalities.

But Green Bay City passed it, and it's now on the tax bill.

It's broken out in an information line on the tax bill that to the amount that the Green Bay Area Public School District levies, this is how much money is going to private school vouchers.

It was a hugely eye-opening experience for people.

And

so, yeah, it really was.

And it was like, you know,

Well, it's a big number.

It's close to $15 million.

Oh,

wow.

And so taxpayers need to understand that that money, they're being charged that money in their taxes, and they need to understand that impact.

And it took off from there.

And I'm very excited that Wood County

is now wanting to address this and all the school districts in Wood County.

It's being led by Port Edwards, which is very exciting and we're going to come in and make a presentation to the board and we're going to explain to them.

We have a whole toolkit.

We have all kinds of pieces to the toolkit to help them explain to taxpayers why we're doing this, but also to explain to their city.

and in sometimes municipal governments as to why this is important.

We're not telling people where they can choose to send their kids to school.

We're telling them that as taxpayers in that community, they deserve to know where their tax dollars are being spent.

And just if you could briefly again, what is it that these different municipalities or school boards need to do?

to explain that to taxpayers?

Well, they can pass a resolution.

For example, we just recently passed this in Eau Claire and the city council actually wrote their own resolution.

And so it's now they're saying to the municipality is saying we want to put the cost of vouchers on our tax bill so that the Eau Claire area

taxpayers understand where their tax dollars are going.

And so then they tell the county, here's the amount of money.

Because school districts provide to the, to the, either there's municipality and then to their county, because many of the counties actually produce the tax bills.

So they provide the data and the information.

And then, so we needed permission.

from the city and from the municipalities to actually make this change or addition to their tax bills.

And so that's why the request has to go to the leadership in those municipalities.

So this is almost something that each municipality has to do themselves.

That's right, Melissa.

And I want to add, Melissa and Denise, we have taken those steps here in Wood County.

Earlier this spring, the Wisconsin Rapids Public School District, their Board of Education passed that resolution.

On May 6th, that our monthly meeting, the Port Edwards School District passed our resolution as well.

Our resolution will be requesting that the village of Port Edwards and each of the townships that lie within the boundaries of our school district

put, you know, make that delineation on the taxpayer bill, how much of the education funding is going to the Port Edward School District and how much is going for school vouchers.

So we have past that resolution that is going to be requesting that that be made on the tax

bill.

Hmm.

Very exciting.

That's how we're working with at least 47 different school districts in the state of Wisconsin right now.

You know, and if we have to go to everyone of the 421 school districts,

in the state of Wisconsin we will do that and say to the state legislature make this standard on the tax bill and so that people can be informed because people deserve to know where their tax dollars are going and you're they're hurting people in in these entities trying to provide amazing products every single day to kids in public schools

And not having the community totally understand the great work they're doing because they think they're paying them more than they really are is a disservice to our public

schools.

Absolutely, Denise.

And I couldn't agree with you more.

This is for education, for our taxpayers, for our citizens.

I want to reiterate, we have tremendous schools in Wood County.

We have tremendous private, parochial and public schools here in Wood County.

But our taxpayers, they do have the right to understand how much of this money that, you know, up until just a few years ago, when you were a taxpayer, that money paid for your public schools.

they don't necessarily understand that now a big portion of that money is going to the parochial and private schools, which used to be independently funded.

This past school year, the Port Edward School District, again, a grand scheme of things, a relatively small public school district, just under 400 students, $449,000 of our annual budget was pulled away through this program.

We had no choice.

The statement was sent to the Port Edwards Public School District.

Here is your state funding.

And oh, by the way, there's a few different line items that add up to this, but $449,000 you will not be receiving to run your school, but it is going to private and pro-chool schools.

So as you've mentioned a few times, Denise, it's critical, I think, that our public understands that, hey, we are now funding two school systems.

This pot of money that's supposed to be

Legally earmarked for public schools is now funding both public and private schools.

Hmm.

Well, let's take a brief pause right here to hear from our sponsors I'm Melissa K talking with District Administrator Jim Bina and Denise Garner Hutchinson.

You're listening to perspective on 13 20 a.m.

97 5 fm WF HR Welcome you're listening to perspective on WF HR 13 20 a.m.

97 5 fm

I'm Melissa Kaye, bringing you news in our community.

I'm speaking with Port Edwards District Administrator Jim Beena, and we've been talking about the school voucher system in Wisconsin.

And to help us understand this complicated topic, we have Denise Garmer Hutchison, the Northeast Regional Organizer for Wisconsin Public Education Network.

Thank you, Jim.

Thank you for having us, Melissa.

And thank you again, Denise, for joining us today.

My pleasure.

Thank you.

So now let's talk a little bit about the Wisconsin constitutional requirements for educating students and how this system is kind of skirting the guidelines of the Constitution in our state.

Sure, absolutely.

The language in the Wisconsin state constitutions, it states that public schools are to be funded with public taxpayer dollars.

Currently, obviously through the Vultra system, significant.

portion of taxpayer funds are going to private and parochial schools.

So the obligation of the state of Wisconsin is not being fully met in the Constitution.

And Denise, could you expound on that a little bit?

Sure.

Article 10, Section 3 of the Wisconsin Constitution states exactly what Jim said.

And more importantly, it says, no sectarian instruction shall be allowed therein, and that these schools should be free and without charge for tuition for all children, all children.

So if you get taxpayer dollars, you should be required to follow the Wisconsin State Constitution.

And that is not happening.

The Wisconsin State Legislature is not meeting their constitutional mandate or requirement because of what this

says.

And we all know that public schools are required to accept everyone.

Private

schools don't have that requirement.

That's correct.

Yes, if we have a student a family moves into our district a family resides in our district We have that constitutional obligation to provide a free and equal education to every child up to the age of 20 parochial and private schools do not have that same mandate they You know they can choose the students that they want enrolled in their in their district

and Denise here's a huge

Point to this.

I'm sorry.

No, please go

ahead

is that we're not telling people Where they need to send their children to school?

That's not our decision to make Wisconsin has school choice and so people can choose to send their children wherever they want to to public school to school What we're saying is that taxpayers deserve to know where those dollars are being spent

And they deserve to know that if they think that they're supporting their public schools, that they actually are supporting their public schools.

And, you know, there is a constitutional mandate that says they need to fund the state legislature needs to fund their public schools and they are not doing that now.

And now it's to the point that it's almost getting upside down that.

private schools are getting more funding per child than public schools.

Because public schools are capped in how much they can spend per child.

And if some of that money is being just gooped off the top for private schools, they're automatically getting less than they are supposed to.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

And as I mentioned in our last segment, Melissa, that is why we're seeing, again, dozens and dozens of public schools having to go to operational referendum every six months.

I think it's a pretty clear and logical correlation.

You can see if the voucher system were not in place, public schools would

by and large have the money that they would need to operate and we would not be going to referendum nearly as much as we are.

Since the voucher system came into place, you've seen a significant increase in operational referendums.

And

what are you

seeing?

You can almost go back and see the percentage of the ask from our public schools on their referendums.

It correlates to what they're losing.

Well, and the fact that

those students are not in your school necessarily doesn't change what your school needs to operate.

Correct.

Yes.

We still you know whether there's you know a slight difference between let's say 20 students in a classroom versus 24 students in a classroom that doesn't we don't pay the teacher by pupil.

We don't drive that bus per

per pupil.

We don't pay our heating bill by pupil.

We still have some, some static costs that we always have to pay.

So yeah, that does not, does not change.

So when we are losing students to private and parochial and that funding follows them through the voucher system, we have to make up the difference somehow.

And that's usually through referendum.

And once those, those public dollars leave the public school system and they go to these private schools,

What are the chances of that money coming back?

Um, it's very unlikely.

Um, you know, students, you know, occasionally they will come back, but oftentimes when a student moves to a different school district, um, especially if they're not leaving their residence, they oftentimes stay there.

If they've made a new set of friends, oftentimes stay in a new school.

Hmm.

So, Denise, for, for, go ahead.

No, sorry, go ahead, Melissa.

Well, for residents here in Wisconsin Rapids and in Port Edwards and our surrounding area, what do listeners need to know about this, the voucher system?

That was a very broad question.

Yeah, there's a couple of big points, and that is, many of the children in private schools that are getting vouchers have never stepped foot in a public school.

So, you know, they are on the rules or the potential rules for the public school because they're of a school age.

So therefore they would be listed, but we don't even know, you know, Jim doesn't know the kids that get a voucher and leave his school, you know, if they do leave and maybe they.

go to a private school from kindergarten on or maybe they come for kindergarten and then go to a private school or something because their private school doesn't offer kindergarten.

But many of them do now.

But we are finding statewide that many of the children that are in voucher schools or have a voucher and go to a different school than their public school in their community

they have never stepped foot in a public school.

So that's a huge deal.

But the public school has to plan for them because they will potentially be coming to their public school.

Because they're already on your rolls.

Yes.

Yeah.

So that's a misnomer that the public has in some situations is that

kids are leaving public schools and droves, they're not.

You know, we've seen, you know, consistent changes, you know, yes, for religious reasons or something like that.

But we aren't seeing, you know, massive mass exoduses out of the public

schools.

That that's correct.

Yeah, I'm sorry.

I'm sorry.

Go ahead.

But the price tag has gone up.

So it's been a consistent number of children that are getting vouchers, but private school vouchers, they got an increase of $1,200 this last year in the state budget.

That's a huge increase.

We didn't get it in our public schools.

They didn't get a $1,200 per child increase.

You know, but private schools did so in some school districts in the state For example, if you're a low spending school district in the state of Wisconsin, which would be I know some at eleven thousand six hundred and twenty five dollars a High school voucher is you know is twelve thousand dollars or higher

Due to the increase.

Yeah

due to the increase.

That's

correct

That's more money per child, you know, with no regulations, no understanding of testing, no understanding of any other services that are in that private school.

That is correct.

And now I'm going to lay out, yeah, they don't have to offer the same product, that public schools are state and federally mandated to deliver.

And

we want them to deliver them because we want our children to have thriving as Jim said, you know Port Edwards is already a thriving public school and that's very active and kids are learning and good things are coming out of the school district.

We want to keep that happening.

Absolutely.

Because that's a school district that accepts all children.

we do it and you know unfortunately it gets more and more challenging each year as the voucher money increases as the amount of that money each year increases leaving our district and I wanted to circle back to a point you were touching on Denise you're absolutely right statewide enrollment in our public schools is down because our families are smaller right we don't have farm families anymore the families of four to six children we

we see them much less frequently.

However, starting in 2027, the caps come off for vouchers in the state of Wisconsin.

Previously, only a certain percentage of students could leave public schools and go to private schools and receive a voucher.

Starting in 2027, there is a likelihood that we could see a big increase in those number of students leaving our public schools because by law,

there the restriction that said there's only a certain percentage of students that can leave that goes away.

So it becomes unlimited in 2027.

And that's a that's pretty concerning to public school leaders.

Yeah, and there's some it should be concerning to public school leaders because the again, you know, you only have to qualify once for a private voucher.

You know and it is income related, but if your income changes after year two You don't have to report that and you still get that voucher And I am going to share a pretty shocking number But it's an important number that that people in Wisconsin need to understand because taxpayers have a right to know that

Here is the Wisconsin privatization price tag.

At the end of the 25-27 biennial budget, the grand total for taxpayer-funded private vouchers and non-district independent charters spending will be 1 billion 836 million

$391,400.

That's

a very big number.

Close to $2 billion for vouchers in Wisconsin.

So would it be accurate?

Would it be accurate to say that the taxpayers are funding two school systems here in the state of Wisconsin?

One private and one public?

Very accurate.

Very accurate.

And not meeting their constitutional requirement.

And

then

fully fund one

and it not being transparent on your tax bills

Absolutely, right?

Absolutely, right?

Well in our last minute here Denise you're gonna be here in Port Edwards in the area on Thursday, May 28th at 6 30.

Is that correct?

I am and with me will be Laurie Blake Lee who's the

communications director for the Green Bay Area Public School District and she'll be joining me to talk about how Green Bay did this project and how they're making it work and how important it is and I'm really looking forward to it because you know just to tie this whole funding piece together is when in 2016 when the state of Wisconsin chose to put the cost of vouchers into

the school funding package, it was $15 million statewide.

And now that number's over a billion.

1.8

billion.

That was 10 years ago.

And now we're looking at a $1.8 billion in 2027.

So taxpayers deserve to know where their money's going.

Absolutely.

Denise, we really look forward to your presentation.

This is a public presentation.

This will be a public informational session.

There will be an opportunity for question and answer.

So it's not just a sit and get.

We've invited every school board in Wood County.

We've invited the public.

Anyone is welcome.

Again, it's at John Edwards High School Gym Thursday, May 28th at 6.30 p.m.

limited parking we have a small parking lot so please you know maybe arrive early come through the 3rd Street bus lobby doors and we're going to have a fantastic presentation that evening on May 28th.

Well I appreciate you both joining me today and having this interesting conversation and obviously everyone is invited to Thursday May 28th as Jim said.

I'm Melissa Kay.

I've been speaking with Port Edwards District Administrator and Ed Hoyer Elementary School Principal, James Beena.

Thank you, James.

Thank you, Melissa.

And Denise Garmer Hutchinson.

The Northeast Regional Organizer for Wisconsin Public Education Network, thank you for talking with us today, Denise.

My pleasure, and thank you for making this conversation available to

us.

And thank you to listeners joining us for news in our community on perspective, 1320 AM, 975 FM, WFHR.