Tom Kertscher on data centers and NDAs (Hour 1)

From Washington to Hollywood and right back to Wisconsin.

It's Night Light with Pete Schwabba and Greg Bach.

Connecting the dots on the stories shaping our world with smart takes, sharp humor, and plenty of personality.

You know, I really expected more professional behavior from you.

It's news and culture without the noise.

Yeah, come on!

Here's Pete Schwabba.

Dude.

And Greg Bach.

Dude!

Hey, welcome to Nightlight, ladies and gentlemen.

It is great to have you here on this Thursday night as we're changing things up a little bit tonight, Greg.

We've got, typically, the Yadarhe Triangle consists of me in Christmas City, USA, also

known

as Marinette, Wisconsin, you

in

Racine and Dom here in Madison.

Correct.

To form the Yadarhe Triangle tonight.

Yes.

There is no Yadarhe Triangle.

There is a Yadarhe Straight Line, as I think we said last night.

I am here in Madison.

with Dom Lee, and it is a pleasure to be here doing the show from Civic Media headquarters in our state's beautiful capital.

How are you tonight, Greg?

I'm feeling a little lonely, I must add.

I must say, I must say, like, once again, once again, you are in Madison.

Dom is in Madison.

Our senior producer, Tucker, is somewhere in the Madison vicinity, and I'm just sitting here, counties over by myself, the loneliest part of the Yadir-Hey straight line.

Well, for tonight, yeah, but you're in a historic

uh radio park there's no nickname like that here this is just civic media headquarters which is lovely but we don't have civic

media world headquarters that's an amazing title

it really is but it doesn't have a radio park kind of vibe where it's like look look don't get me wrong it's great to be here i'm looking out at state street it's a beautiful night in our city's capital we might even do a nightlight window fun photo if we can if dom will indulge me after and i can

Let's look down with my camera.

Let's do it.

So, lots going on here.

Great, cool.

Have fun in Madison, guys.

Really great.

Love all of the whimsical fashion fun you're having up there in Madison right now.

Hey everybody, let's do, oh no, I'm by myself right now.

Here's what I'll do.

I'll move the camera, I'll move the screen over so you're in the foreground and Dama's down on the street and then we can all be together and that would be a very, and then I'll lean into the, we'll crop you in.

We'll crop you in, it's Photoshop.

Hey,

we,

Everyone knows it's fake.

Things are a little different tonight, but we are still going to bring you the night light you know and love, folks.

And it is great to be in Madison.

And it is great to be on the air tonight on this Thursday with a great guest, a fun event we just started here called the Night Light Movie Club.

We will do that in hour number two.

And our movie tonight is The Gentleman.

So if you watched it, please join the discussion, call or text and share your thoughts.

It's a guy-richy movie.

I watched last night for the first time.

So I'm coming into this.

I haven't even had a chance to warm up, Greg, right out of the bullpen, but excited to talk the gentleman, as I know it's one of your favorite movies.

So that should be fun.

Yes, absolutely.

Absolutely.

Tonight, too, we have a wonderful, wonderful guest.

We're going to be speaking to Wisconsin watch reporter Tom Kircher.

He'll be talking about an article that he wrote about data centers, NDAs, and what's happening in Wisconsin with regard to, especially, Port Washington, Beloit.

But it's a big conversation we've been having now for about almost two years.

and people are really starting to get hip to what's happening in their communities with regard to these multi-billion dollar projects, kind of taking over.

So Tom's going to be here after the 5.30 news to discuss that article and anything else that he's been hearing from people on this topic.

And then, yeah, as you said, movie club in the second hour.

It's going to be great.

And I've got, I'm excited to talk to Tom too because I have a two terabyte hard drive at home and I make my wife sign an NDA.

not to look through it.

So it's probably not exactly the same, but you know.

It's like a

little Peach Shrubba data center.

Exactly.

We all need our own little data centers.

Mine doesn't take up 400,000 square feet, but that'll be fun to talk to Tom.

Or scary, one way or the other.

We'll

have a great

conversation though.

And we've also, how are you doing today, Greg?

You seem like I drove three hours through our beautiful state to get here today.

It's great to be here with Don, but how are things in Racine?

Things that are seen are good.

I can't complain.

The weather is nice.

It's in the upper 50s, almost the 60s today.

And yeah, just kind of.

I don't know, like kicking back a little bit, worked a little from home and now I'm here with y'all.

So it's kind of just a good Thursday.

The dog is in daycare right now, which, you know, I love my dog.

Anyone who knows me knows I love my dog.

I love my Puppers, miss her very much right now.

But there is something to say about when you take her to daycare and then you go back home and you're like, all right, I can get stuff done.

I can, you know, there's a little bit of relaxing.

I have to worry about him.

They got it taken care of.

They're good.

So, uh, yeah, the day has been good so far.

Can't really complain.

You just said you were in the car for, it seems like most of the day.

Three hours and I was running around doing stuff I should have done last night, but yeah, I got here okay.

And I will say, I hope, I mean, this, this, I hope the train catches on and I hope one day I can go from Christmas city, USA to Madison via train because I had a triumvirate today.

Three people.

camped out in the left lane would not move.

And it wasn't just they were stuck.

It was like they would move and then the traffic would pass them on the right and they still wouldn't get over.

It's like, no, I just like this lane.

I don't understand the rules of the road or traffic in general.

So I like it.

I like being on the left and that's all I can tell you.

And it's very dangerous.

Like as I've gotten older, I realized that's kind of dangerous when people don't get out of the passing lane.

Well, it's also I mean, I don't know if it's illegal, but it's also just bad manners like you're supposed to be in that's the left lane is always supposed to be a passing lane You're not supposed to spend your time in the left lane But if you are going to you know, it's it's a it's a general idea that you're gonna be going 5 10 if you're in Illinois 35 miles over the speed limit, but like there's a there's a there's a

Don't, oh, oh, oh, me, Dom.

That's true.

You've driven in Illinois.

You know, you know, for a fact, I was driving with a friend once we, I'm not kidding you.

I am not kidding you.

I was driving with a friend once, two separate cars.

I'm in my car.

He's in his, we hit the Illinois, Wisconsin border.

He calls me up five minutes after we cross.

And he goes, where are you?

I said, you see that little dot back there?

That's me because you started going 85 in a 65.

And I'm like, I'm just going to go 70, 75.

And you're just off to the races, but.

Yeah, I totally understand that frustration.

As I've gotten older, I tend to stay in the right lane or like on 94, we have, it's a four lane freeway because you know, that's what we need to spend our money on.

I always hang out in the middle two lanes.

I like, that

is, that's

where I, that's where I live.

That's what I love.

It's feel comfortable.

I feel safe.

I don't like being all the way to the right because it just feels like I'm going to get behind a truck all the way to the left.

And I feel like I'm in fast and furious.

So those two middle lanes,

That's my jam.

I'm with you and I I will I will push back a little bit on the I used to feel better like I don't speed anymore I got a I got a ticket when I was like 27 it cost me 200 bucks Wow,

I'm

like I'm done.

I just don't speed 75 maybe 77 if it's a 70 mile an

hour

zone, but Northeast Wisconsin I've been driving there the last two years back and forth the Green Bay Psycho drivers and that was not always the

case in

fact

one

night I was driving home

This guy passed me so, he must have been doing 110, my whole car shook.

And it was so scary.

I just, I'm like, you're driving a weapon, folks.

Slow down.

I find myself actually becoming scared when that happens.

When they're doing a, like, you know, if it's 70 miles an hour, if they're doing a 95 to 100 and you just hear that, it's like, it scares me.

So then I just, yeah, that's why I hang out on those middle lanes.

Same.

Good to go.

Good to go.

Dom, how's your day going, by the way?

It's going pretty good.

And like you're saying- That was

hesitant.

That was hesitant.

Because I'd like it to be warmer, all right?

I know it's already 56, but I'd like the sun to be out a little more, you know?

I'm just not a big cloudy person, right?

I don't like clouds.

It's just not me, you know?

I'm with you.

Yeah.

If the worst part of your day is

weather.

Cut that for context.

I'm just

not a big cloudy guy.

If the worst part of your day is weather, though, you're doing okay.

It's true.

The stuff you can't control.

Yeah.

Exactly.

Listen, it's 20 degrees.

warmer here than where I came from.

And that's not always the case, but it seems like it has been this whole week.

So Greg, we've got a really cool contest.

I would love for you to tell people about it if you're okay with that.

I'm absolutely okay with this, especially because we remembered today.

So

in the second

hour tonight, you have your chance to win your way into the Milwaukee Film Festival because the Milwaukee Film Festival 2026 is coming to the Oriental and Downer theaters this April.

Actually, like next week, holy, crime in Italy.

April 16th through the 30th, their newly released lineup is available for you at MKEFilm.org.

And to celebrate it, we're giving away the chance.

We're not giving away the chance.

We're letting you have the chance to win a pair of tickets to go to the Milwaukee Film Festival this year.

So in the second hour, we will give you a keyword.

to text in, not come into a little bit later, so keep it locked right here.

We'll give you that keyword at the top of the second hour, but that is the Win Your Way into the Milwaukee Film Festival contest.

Stick around, stay close.

We have a great show for you.

It's gonna be really, really fun, but now that we have that announced and it's out there and we have to be accountable for it this time, my gosh, yesterday just put me into such a spiral.

We

are really seriously lucky because we've got the Milwaukee Film Festival and Outstanding Festival, and tonight the Wisconsin Film Festival starts.

That's the whole reason I'm here in Madison tonight.

So we are blessed with two outstanding film festivals, and I cannot wait to get over to Milwaukee and see some of their offerings this year.

Before we get to the big news, we got a caller on the line, Andrew from Madison.

What's going on, Andrew?

Are you keeping slow and keeping, you know, like safe on the road?

Oh, yeah.

Well, I work, uh, I work for DOT and so I'm on the shoulder a lot.

Yeah.

Oh my gosh.

That's gotta be scary.

Yeah.

It is.

There are days it is.

Um, and today I was actually doing some, some things on the road and I didn't have my overhead lights on because I didn't need them.

And the traffic was doing about 75 to 77 miles an hour, according to my radar and my equipment.

And then I turned my lights on, which are yellow and the traffic all of a sudden set up to anywhere between 77 and 85.

It went

faster?

It's

like you challenged them

or something.

My

gosh.

The law is move over and slow down.

Yeah.

Yes, yes.

They were not doing this in Washington County today.

Terrible.

Wow.

Sorry to hear that.

Sorry about that, Andrew.

Thank you so much for calling in.

We appreciate that.

Oh, sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt.

But seriously, thank you for the call.

People move over, especially a lot of you are probably in your car right now, and that is so scary when you're on the shoulder like that, whether you've been pulled over for a ticket or these guys who work out there and they're out there all the time.

The reason why we have that law is because an officer was killed.

So

let's

remember that too.

Get over and slow down.

You don't have to go 40, but just please be careful, especially when people on the road.

My gosh, this sound like my mother right now.

Hi, mom.

All right, let's get to our three things right now real quick.

The first big story.

So this is big news coming out of CBS news army survivors of a deadly attack in Kuwait dispute the Pentagon's account survivors of the deadliest attack here says that the since the war begun They're disputing the Pentagon's description of events and said their unit in Kuwait was left dangerously exposed when six service members were killed and more than 20 were wounded Speaking publicly for the first time members of the targeted unit offered CBS news a detailed account basically they said they were not ready and Because of that these six were killed

But that's not what Pete Hegseth is spinning right now.

That's not what Donald Trump is spinning.

It's all victories.

It's all great.

It's all gravy.

We are winning.

We have all their oil decimated again, obliterated again.

But according to these service members, that's not the case.

Yeah, they were saying that one missile squeaked through, but that's not true.

Now, these service members, they spoke on condition of anonymity.

It's terrible they have to do that, but they do.

And it's CBS, so at least they're reporting this.

I'm surprised CBS

is, honestly.

That's really

surprising to me.

But my first thought when I read this, Greg, was, well, I support the troops.

Does the Defense Department or War Department, or whatever they're calling themselves now, does the government support the troops?

You can't tell the truth?

Come on.

It's terrible.

This reminds me of the stories I heard about Vietnam when the government was saying, we're winning Vietnam.

And then Walter Cronkite goes over there and gets filmed.

And they're like, oh, we're doing terrible.

And it changed.

everything.

This quote is very, very important, too, before we get out of here.

I want people to know the unit was unprepared to provide any defense for itself.

It was not a fortified position.

To me, that is the most basic of failures on the part of the people in charge of our military, putting the life at risk of these people who are just trying to protect

themselves, this country, the whole thing.

And to me, I say, Pete Hegseth, what are you going to do?

I probably end up firing them because, you know, they're not warrior enough.

He's

going to fire soldiers.

Hey, we are coming right back, folks.

We got two more big things to discuss.

Be careful out there on the road.

Compliments of Andrew.

We know what those guys are up against.

Yes.

Great show tonight.

Glad you're here.

Movie club is tonight and Tom Kertcher.

We are coming right back.

This is Nightlight with Peach Waba and Greg

Buck.

Oh,

you like that line, Dom.

I love it.

That's a great song.

I love that journey tune.

Hey, welcome back to Nightlight.

I'm Pete Schwabba, sitting sideways from me over in Racine.

Racine is Greg Bach, and Dom is here with me in Madison.

And we're palin' around together, and we miss our chum, Greg, who is probably nine new miles away, but either way, it's great to have all of you here tonight.

This is a Thursday edition of Nightlight coming to you live from Madison and Racine.

We did, Greg, and all of our enthusiasm to talk about the Milwaukee Film Contest, which is great.

We forgot to do question in the night, so, Dom, I think we should get to that.

Pronto.

Let's talk about the question.

Okay, question.

Question.

Question.

Pregunta.

Question.

Question.

Okay, I have a question.

Questions.

This question.

Domanda.

Question.

Question.

Questions.

What is the best advice you've ever gotten?

It could be a cliche, someone just imparting their wisdom on you.

I've heard tons of it in my whole life, people that commend your life.

It could be even a stranger that just says something to you that resonates, your mom or dad, whatever.

What is the best advice you've ever gotten?

855-752-4842, 855-75 Civic.

You can also text us on the app, or if you're watching the radio on the stream at Facebook, YouTube, or ex Twitter, drop us a stream comment and be part of the show.

That's what I say, Greg.

All right, that's what I say too.

That's because Pete said it.

I'm saying it too me here by myself Alone in

Racine we've hardly talked about you at all and it's all been

positive It's fine if you haven't that's cool.

I don't All right, let's get into our second story.

I'm very interested to talk to you about this one.

Yeah the second

big story

Okay, so no

no no you go for it I'm interested in your thoughts on this because just the just the headline of this story on the Ankler is infuriating but go on we're talking about AI in Hollywood

Yeah, I you know what I have mixed feelings on this obviously I'm against AI replacing actors or writers I know some scripts you can people say oh I read it it read like AI it could have just been a hack who was writing it but I don't

I have my issues with the Writers Guild.

I'm part of the Writers Guild and SAG, the Actors Guild.

And I don't always love them, but I feel like with AI, it's almost like animation, Greg.

That's kind of how I look at it.

I think people want to see movies with actual human beings in them.

They

don't

want AI.

AI is like animation, and there might be a place for it.

But I think the issue here is with Steven Spielberg.

Did he made a movie about John Lennon and Yoko Ono and he used AI tools in the film and people are even Soderbergh.

I'm sorry.

What did I say?

Oh Soderbergh, of course.

Yeah

like him better than Spielberg, believe it or not.

But

I

know, controversial.

But anyway, and I know that in this new Val Kilmer movie, they recreated his image with the blessing of his estate

to use a

younger version of him.

I think that's different.

And frankly, I'm curious to see what that looks like.

So I think there might be a place for AI as long as it doesn't take food off the tables of actors and actresses or writers for that matter.

Well, and that's what I you know, I again, I'm not against AI either I just feel like we're diving so deep into it and everyone thinks well, we could do all these things when when You could do a lot of things, but why not not do a lot of things instead apply them Artistically if you will I mean using that term like all right you want to use AI I mean to me like

Correct me.

I may be wrong.

Pete, you've been doing this job for a lot longer than I have, but there's a lot of people for a long time who said CGI is the end of Hollywood.

We can't have CGI and computers like, well, no, we can.

We do.

It makes a lot of money.

And to a certain degree, it does work.

Sometimes it does look absolutely terrible.

But like any major development in technology, you shouldn't turn your back on it.

You should use it.

I don't know, smart, not sparingly, but smart.

And this

could be what Steven Soderbergh is doing, but like in this article here on the Ankler, some guy quote tweets and says, RIP Steven Soderbergh, you had a good run.

Well, I don't discount a filmmaker for using AI, especially someone like Steven Soderbergh.

He's a smart filmmaker.

He is not going to just say, all right, here's three ideas.

Make a movie for me, computers.

I trust him to use it.

I'm not gonna say correctly that it's a subjective term, but I mean I trust him to use it in a way that's gonna be both entertaining but also not take jobs

That's very well said.

I totally agree with you and I feel like at some point it is here You have to accept it.

I'm not saying I don't want it to replace actors or writers But I don't you know people are gonna use it much in the way probably like they use CGI as an effect at least I hope that's how they use it Yeah, we'll see how this plays out.

It's a good story.

Yeah

In other

news, Pete Schwab's new movie has been rewritten by AI

coming out this

summer.

And it was better than my first draft, and that's what's the most embarrassing.

Let's get to our third big story.

It's a good one, Dom.

The third big story.

Greg, supposedly, according to Fox News, eating chocolate and cheese could help you live longer.

Explain that to me.

The headline chocolate cheese and yogurt linked to longer life and detailed study of three million people and then it's showing Jesse Waters, you know Fox News's version of John Stuart that failed talking to what looks like an exploding tomato that is RFK Jr Yeah, a new large-scale study says that yogurt cheese and even chocolate could be help can help you live longer I don't

believe this Pete

I believe the yogurt part, I know that that helps your core and gut health and all that, and we've talked to our friend Sherry Estoka about that, and I've even gone back farther with her, and she's always sworn by that, but this is a little bit click-baity.

Chocolate and cheese could help you live longer.

Dark chocolate is a superfood.

It can be good for you.

The cheese thing I don't get, unless it's for the calcium, and you eat it in moderation, I suppose, but it's a little click-baity.

I hope it's real.

But I also think that hope it's real.

Yeah, okay, Mr. Big Arch.

But the yogurt thing, I don't even buy either because there are certain yogurts that can be good for you.

But if you're eating like a chocolate strawberry yogurt, that's like huge.

No, it's not good for you.

But again, this goes back to the idea of anytime a news outlet says a steady shows dot, dot, dot, people get all excited because apparently.

Fox News knows health really well, so we'll we'll know more after my great study here I'll be eating a mountain of chocolate cheese and yogurt

later.

We'll do our own research here Exactly.

It'll pass muster with Jesse Waters All right something this is nightlight with peach wabba and Greg Bach and Great to have you here folks our question of the night.

What is the best advice you've ever gotten?

We are coming right back after the news to talk to a Wisconsin Watch reporter Tom Kircher.

Don't go anywhere

Welcome back to Nightlight with Pete Schwabba and Greg Bach here on the Civic Media Network.

If you want to be part of the conversation, call or text the number is 855-752-4842.

You can always leave a comment on the live stream.

We are streaming currently on Facebook, YouTube and the platform.

We still call Twitter.

You can leave a comment on the live stream like Tony, who says the cheese makes you live longer because it makes you happy and happy people live longer.

That's in conversation with our blazing piece of medical news from Fox News.

We just talked about whereas cheese, chocolate and yogurt apparently make you.

Live longer.

I don't know.

I'm not a doctor, but don't forget in the second hour We we will be giving you our keyword in the wing your way into the Milwaukee Film Festival where you have the chance to pick up a pair of tickets for the Milwaukee Film Festival starting April 16th going through the 30th all you need to do is be ready listening locked in here in that second hour and don't forget the question of the night is what is the best advice you've ever gotten you can always text that in or you can leave a comment on our Facebook page or

Go on the Civic Media app and text us via there because you can call, text, or leave a voice message on the Civic Media app.

Download it today because it's app, absolutely free.

See what I did there?

That's a fun little delivery.

Oh, sweet.

Thank you very

much.

Thank you very much.

Thank you very much.

All right.

Let us bring on our guest this evening.

He is a reporter for Wisconsin Watch.

Please welcome to the show.

Tom Kircher is here to talk about a very, very good article that you published last month regarding NDAs titled, More Than NDAs Wisconsin Faces, scrutiny over data center secrecy.

Tom, welcome to the show this evening.

How are you?

How are the Badgers doing at the hockey game right now?

Hey, thanks for inviting me on.

I appreciate it.

Yeah.

Just a few moments ago turned off the game, but early second period men's hockey year up two to zero and the frozen for semi-final.

Nice.

Thank you for that report, Tom.

We come back for the news now with Tom.

So Tom, you wrote this article last month regarding.

So let me start here.

We've been talking a lot about data centers here on civic media for quite a while, almost two years now as we've been learning more and more about them.

But in this article, you talk about something even more important that's been happening behind the scenes, which are the NDAs with local elected officials.

Can you talk more about that and what this article has to say regarding the people's feelings towards essentially secrecy?

Yeah, sure.

Absolutely.

You know if you're interested I can tell you the quick backstory on the whole thing.

Go for it.

Absolutely where the story originated So about a year and a half ago it took a trip to Austin You know and the whole idea was to go see as much live music as possible of the broken spoke go to Mohawk did all those things but also on the trip got into a conversation with my buddy about AI artificial intelligence and at that point a year and a half ago it was

very loosely on my radar and I knew it was something I should learn about, but hadn't.

After the conversation with him was kind of a pivotal moment, I came back to Milwaukee, started a daily calendar alert for myself.

So each day I would use AI at least once for work, for pleasure, whatever it was.

And over the course of the next several months, you know, that really rose on my radar and I got to thinking.

As a reporter for Wisconsin Watch, I should do a story about data centers that these are going to be huge in our lives.

So I started casting about for an idea and was told about something called stranded assets.

Stranded assets are power plants that have been shut down, but people like you and I, businesses, ratepayers are still paying debt on these power plants.

The story we did at Wisconsin watch back in December was that we ratepayers owe a billion dollars on stranded assets power plants that have been shut down Yeah, kind of a new phenomenon for a lot of people and data center adjacent in the sense that Big push to build data centers consequently big push to build more power plants What happens if those things don't work out as we expect?

And we end up with more stranded assets.

But that still wasn't a story directly on data centers, right?

So I was

still looking for that.

And luckily, at Wisconsin Watch, Reader sent an email with some different thoughts and questions about data centers.

And he mentioned a term that you referenced, non-disclosure agreements or NDAs.

And as a reporter, that sort of thing caught my attention, non-disclosure.

What's that all about?

Well, it produced a story that we did back in January that said at that time We learned that there are at least four communities in Wisconsin local governments that had signed these non disclosure agreements with companies that wanted to Put up data centers in their community The upshot of those is that it keeps the details of these proposals Secret the public is not made aware what we found in our story was that

For months or in some cases, even more than a year, local governments were working with data center developers, communicating back and forth, refining plans for data center proposal.

That would go on for months or even more than a year before the community ever made an announcement, hey, there's a data center being proposed.

So that was the thrust of that story.

And we've talked about data centers as far as like,

The the size and the energy usage and all those things but really when it comes down to this topic It really feels like it's more of a secrecy problem like it's it's it's these companies coming in saying don't worry about the public We'll take care of that just sign this and you'll be good to go but people are caught catching wind then they're not happy

Yeah, there's definitely been you know signs of backlash because of that You know what happens is you know a lot of people maybe were like like me like I was a year and a half ago you vaguely have an idea what hey

as you vaguely know what a data center is.

Maybe you don't really have an opinion on either one yet.

But then the first you hear is that one is being planned for your community and has been in the works or in preparation for months.

And so maybe your first impression is, wait a minute, I'm not sure how I feel about AI or a data center.

I've heard some things that make me concerned.

Now I find out that City Hall or the village government

has been quietly pursuing this proposal that's a billion dollars or more, hundreds of acres, and none of us were let in on the deal until pretty far along in the process.

Our guest is Tom Kircher.

He does great work at Wisconsin Watch.

We're talking to him about data centers.

There are five, at least in the article I read in Wisconsin right now, and we're discussing the NDA issue with local governments, keeping this from the people that they

are supposed to represent.

Does that make people, in your opinion, Tom, think that there is something very nefarious about these centers that we don't know?

Like, why keep it a secret?

We all know AI is here.

And if it brings jobs to a community, you think they'd be touting that.

But the fact that they cover it up like this, and I think in Beloit they didn't find out for a year, does that make people even more suspicious?

You know, I think it certainly has a tendency.

You know, it's fair to point out that

NDAs the nondisclosure agreements are pretty common in the economic development world So if I come along I'm a developer and I approach you Pete and I say hey I want to put you know Walmart in your community You know maybe you sign a nondisclosure agreement for a limited period of time because I don't want my competitors to know where I'm gonna put my next plant or store and I don't want them to know details like how big it's gonna be and that sort of thing

So the data center world certainly is highly competitive right now and you can appreciate that a data center developer would want some confidentiality to keep an advantage over their competitors.

The problem is when you're signing those agreements with local government elected officials or local government staff, you know, those people have an obligation to the public,

to

their residents, right?

And so they are signing contracts, pledging, agreeing,

to keep something quiet, something that's so massive.

And that's not to say whether data centers are good or bad, that's another topic, that's another debate.

But just the fact that they're so massive, so transformative, we use more power than anyone has ever seen before, use a lot of water, use a lot of land, bring a lot of tax revenue and bring some jobs, certainly pros and cons.

But when those things

Those discussions go on behind the scenes for months or more than a year.

I think the public tends to have that reaction.

One example was in DeForest, North of Madison.

And it's important to know that not all the secrecy here involves formal non-disclosure agreements.

In DeForest, we found that local government there had worked behind the scenes for about seven months on a $12 billion data center proposal, very big.

the day we published our story about these NDAs and other efforts at secrecy, the day after the story posted de Forest dropped out of that project.

So

that

was some indication that people certainly had some concerns about data centers themselves, but then added to that backlash of, hey, wait a minute, this has been going on and we weren't aware of it for a long

time.

I understand the process of the NDA.

I understand what the steps may be, but something in your article that definitely stood out was Lynn Uline, who lives in Port Washington, did a FOIA request for the information, and they waited three months to get back to her.

And then when they did, they gave her the emails that she requested, but not the attachments saying, well, you asked for the emails, not for the attachments.

And to me, taking three months and then being that finicky with the information seems like...

Maybe not something to hide, but you don't want information getting out there You're trying to keep information back as much as possible because you probably understand that people are gonna be unhappy with what you've signed Yeah,

you know it's hard to know what the motivations are right, but

yeah

Like de Forest did not sign an NDA same in Port Washington as you as you alluded to there was no NDA signed there But there were these other steps taken to keep details quiet.

So yeah citizen uses the state

open records law, which basically says, hey, when it comes to governmental activity, records should be open and available to the public.

She asks for emails between the city of Port Washington and the data center developer.

Doesn't hear anything for almost three months, as you mentioned.

Decides she needs to sue.

They turn over emails to her that she requested, but no attachments, no documents, no diagrams, no whatever might be included in an attachment.

And the city's position was, well, you asked for emails.

You didn't specify that you also wanted attachments.

And, you know, a judge reviewed that and basically said, look, these are one and the same.

If you're requesting an email, you're requesting what's attached to it as well, right?

I mean, to take it to an absurd degree, you could send an email.

I could send emails with you guys back and forth, and they could be blank.

And all the information could be in an attachment by, you know, the way the city looked at it.

that would never turn over anything of substance.

So, yeah, there's just an example of local governments taking steps to keep things quiet even after these projects are pretty far along.

I just have a quick question for you, Tom.

We have about a minute left before we have to go to a break and then we can keep the conversation going.

You know, AI is kind of new, at least in terms of the fact that we need these huge data centers.

Where is everything being stored now?

Like, why are these on the scene all of a sudden?

Is it because they're anticipating how big AI will be in the data or is it, is this something new?

Yeah, I'll be honest with you.

I haven't explored that.

I think you're right that it's the explosion already of AI, just how tremendously powerful it is.

If you used chat GPT or Gemini or some of these others, you'll start to appreciate

the computing power of that and how much more powerful it is than say a Google search.

And yeah, it's anticipated that there'll just be more and more and more of it.

And consequently, the rush to build a data center, to be the first one or build the biggest one, and a lot of competition.

When we come back, we're going to take a short break.

We'll come back and speak more with Tom Kircher from Wisconsin.

Watch about his article regarding NDAs and data centers here in Wisconsin.

If you have any questions, comments, please give us a call 855-752-4842-8557-5CIVIC.

You can always leave that comment on the live stream, but come back.

Stick around with Nightlight with Pete Schwabba and Greg Bach here on the Civic Media Network.

Welcome back to Nightlight with Pete Schwabba and Greg Bach.

We are coming to you live on the Civic Media Network.

I am coming to you from Radio Park in Racine and all the way at World Headquarters in Madison.

We have Mr. Pete Schwabba as well as Dom Lee on the ones and twos.

You can be part of the conversation 855-752-484-2855-755.

Civic leave a comment on that live stream.

We are streaming.

on Facebook, YouTube, and the platform we still call Twitter.

Still ahead, we're going to get to our question of the night in the second hour, plus give you a chance to win a pair of tickets to the Milwaukee Film Festival starting April the 16th with our keyword.

So don't go anywhere, stick around.

And then it's time for the Nightlight Movie Club tonight, featuring the Guy Ritchie film, The Gentleman.

So if you haven't watched it, you have exactly...

20 minutes to watch the entire thing.

So good luck to you as well.

And then we wrap everything up with the nightcap.

So stick around, we're going to have a great time.

We're continuing a conversation right now with Wisconsin watch reporter Tom Kircher speaking about his article regarding NDAs, data centers, and Wisconsin, which as Tom said earlier, and we talked about, this was not something on the radar in the past like year and a half, two years, and it's really come to light.

And Tom, in the reporting you've done, this people you've spoken to, I hear a lot of folks,

who like fall into three camps.

There's one camp where it's like no data centers whatsoever.

Then there's some in the middle who say data centers are fine.

With this article, it's like, we want transparency.

We want openness.

We want to know what's going on.

Then there's just some folks who are like, build every data center possible.

Build it on my house.

I don't care.

Love it.

And I want to know from you what the people you're talking to, are there folks out there who want these data centers to come into town who aren't exactly like.

Like it's not like, yes, Microsoft, we love it, but they see it as a boon for the community.

Or is it a lot of folks in communities who just simply like, I don't know what's going on.

I just hear my energy prices can go up.

I hear they take up a lot of land.

It just doesn't seem right.

I mean, it seems like there's a lot of folks out there with a lot of opinions.

Yeah, and I think some of the secrecy we talked about, the non-disclosure agreements that we talked about earlier have played into this in the sense that if you're

new to this whole thing of AI and data centers.

And the first things you hear about it are, my power rates are going to go up, too much water, there's too much land, you hear lots of negatives.

And I think, you know, the data center opponents have kind of captured the narrative, if you will, they got out there, they set up Facebook pages, no data centers in my community, thousands of people sign up, they hold public events.

that get Charlie Barron's is obviously got a big following.

And so you've got all these people out there raising legitimate concerns, but if that's sort of the drumbeat you hear and you don't hear much from the data center side, it's understandable.

People would say, I don't think I like this.

But there are some points to point out.

I think on the one hand, the data center folks maybe have themselves to blame and that they've really gone for a lot of secrecy and not disclosure.

and therefore kind of lost the argument, perhaps.

But I did a story, too, that found how much impact data centers are already making in Wisconsin.

So we have three big ones under construction, but none of these big ones are even operating yet in Wisconsin.

So people can guess how much money they're going to bring and how many jobs they're going to fill.

We'll see.

But the story I did was hard numbers.

And just three companies

in Wisconsin have already done more than a billion dollars worth of business for data centers and other places, you know, providing parts, providing equipment.

So there's real impact there.

Just visited Grand County in the southwest corner of the state, lots of small towns, lots of farmland.

You know, they're looking at potentially 50 jobs there.

Now that's a projection.

Who knows?

But in smaller communities, that could be a lot.

The estimate there is five and a half million dollars.

annually in property tax revenue.

If you're one of the school districts that's finding itself really strapped for funds, a lot of school districts are going to refer on them because they feel like they can't make it as is.

Those

are real dollars that are attractive to people.

Yeah.

Tom, without knowing yet what the effect of the data centers will be or, you know, I want to go back to stranded assets because a data center is different than a power plant.

You need the power plant to run the data center, but.

Is there a fear that data centers will become stranded assets?

Like these are not mobile or they're not hard to just pick up and leave with all the land they take up and the money and the water and all that.

And it'll be interesting to see how many jobs they do produce because it's data.

I mean, I don't know, but is there a fear that these centers could end up as stranded assets that seems like trying to play devil's advocate like a good thing that they won't pack up and leave?

Yeah, we don't know, right?

This is all uncharted territory, not only in Wisconsin, but around the country, right?

How big of a phenomenon is this going to be?

It's certainly, if you look at the effect on the stock market, it seems like the data centers are going to be a tremendous boon for the economy.

But you're right, with this rush to build them, who knows?

Will AI be as big as we think it is?

Will we need as many data centers as we think we do?

as technology continues to evolve, how's that going to change?

You

end up with a data center that's a stranded asset, certainly.

My first thought is always, this data center might be X amount of size, like how many acres, how many square footage, but as technology progresses, you need less space for things.

And if they're like, well, we don't need all that space.

So we're going to kick on out of here.

Bye, guys.

Enjoy that slab of concrete.

We're out of here.

We're going to do something else somewhere.

And that's my big.

Concern as well plus what you said like 50 jobs is nothing to sneeze at but also like it's not

a

factory job But like we're gonna hire 5,000 yeah,

exactly

Yeah, it's so like that's this that's the thing that keeps me worried and I live in Kenosha Which is just by Racine which is right by the Microsoft data center Which is a whole other conversation we can have down the road, but it's something that we all

need to keep our eyes on.

And I'm glad you wrote this article because in the past, I feel like you're a lot of great reporting coming out of Wisconsin about data centers and what's been going on, especially with regard to the NDA situation as well.

Tom Kircher is a reporter for the Wisconsin Watch.

We are going to get this article into our show notes so you can take a look at yourself.

Folks, if you have thoughts on data centers and this matter, feel free to contact us, text us, call us, let us know.

It's 8557-524842, 8557-5CIVIC.

Tom, thank you so much for being here.

We appreciate your time.

Hey, Bet, anytime.

Thanks for leaving me, too.

No problem.

When we come back, we're going to be talking about the question of the night.

What's the best?

advice you have ever gotten, plus we'll move into the movie club portion of the show where we're talking about Guy Richie's The Gentleman.

So don't go anywhere.

Stay tuned.

Stay close.

You're listening to Nightlight with Pete Schwab and Greg Bach here on the Civic Media Network.

Trying to make sense of the world.

You've got Night Light with Pete Schwabba and Greg Bach.

Call our toll-free number now.

Headlines, culture, and real conversation.

And

now, our feature presentation.

Here's Pete and Greg.

Welcome back to Night Light, everybody.

My name is Greg Bach.

Coming to you live from Radio Park in Racine all the way over in World Headquarters slash Christmas City USA because wherever you go, the spirit of Christmas is always there.

It's very

sweet of you.

I agree.

I

try to bring that feeling all year long.

There you go.

We're coming to you live on the Civic Media Network.

And I carry

Mistletoe with me, which is creepy.

Well, that's for you and Dom to figure out, not me.

Thank God I am in Racine.

HR.

And so we're coming to you live on the Civic Media Network.

Thank you so much for being here.

We are in hour two of the grand show.

If you want to be part of the conversation, you can always call our text 855-752-484-2855-757.

Leave a comment on that live stream.

We are currently streaming on Facebook, YouTube, and the platform.

We still call Twitter still ahead.

We got our Nightlight Movie Club Edition 2 with Guy Ritchie's The Gentleman, a very, very fun film we all watched.

We'll be talking about it.

It's history, our thoughts.

The fact that it's very hard to pull clips from that movie without a bunch of bleeps, but that's beside the point.

And then we wrap everything up with the nightcap, getting to know what each other learned throughout the program.

So happy you're joining us.

And of course, drop a comment, leave a text.

Download the free Civic Media app.

You can call, text, or leave a voice message.

You can listen anywhere around the world.

You can get news, weather, and sports.

It's all right there on the Civic Media app.

Download it today because it's absolutely free.

Without further ado though, we must get

to our contest keyword for this week.

That is your chance to win a pair of tickets for the 2026 Milwaukee Film Festival, starting April 16th, going all the way to the 30th.

And I'm going to give you a keyword.

You will text in that keyword and one lucky person will win a pair of tickets.

So get yourself ready because here comes this hour's keyword of the day.

The word is drama, D-R-A-M-A, drama.

Spelling counts.

Capitalization does not text in the word drama for your chance to win a pair of tickets to go to this year's Milwaukee Film Festival.

If you want to find out what is playing, simply go to MKEFilm.org to see their newly released lineup.

And good luck to you.

You can take throughout the rest of the hour.

You get one entry, but you can wait if you need to, but you have until the end of the show to text in that keyword, drama, DR8MA.

Good luck, folks.

Good luck.

Great festival.

The Milwaukee Film Festival.

Yeah.

I

mean, I'm

envious that you live right there or close enough to it.

I live two and a half hours away from Milwaukee, but I absolutely love that film festival.

I don't go to it as much as I should.

And this year, I really want to go see Stop Making Sense in theater because I told myself I wouldn't see it again until I saw it in the theater.

And then every chance I had that when the 4K edition came out and it was playing everywhere, it was like actually released in the, as the English, cinemas, I couldn't go.

So hopefully I can go this year.

I don't go as much as I would like to.

Last time I went was to see my friend's film, which was actually the featured film of the entire festival, which was really, really exciting.

It's called The Queen of My Dreams, a very, very good movie, very interesting film.

And I got to see my friend again after many years, but yeah, I'd love to go again.

Maybe, you know, maybe we'll just show up and be like, hey, we're civic media.

We gave away tickets, let us in.

And they're like, that doesn't mean anything to me.

You want to know something?

I know you're joking.

However, I went to a steakhouse here in Madison, which is fantastic.

The Tornado

Club.

Which one?

Tornado Club, then it's good.

I couldn't get reservations.

Well, here's, you got to drop civic media, dude.

So, I go in there and I said, you know, my son and I would like to come in here Friday night and get a steak, whatever.

She's, oh, we're booked up.

She goes, I can put you on the waiting list.

I said, Peach Waba.

She goes, from Civic Media.

I

swear, she goes, we're big fans of Civic Media here.

I go, that's fantastic.

So I gave them a shout out in the air.

They put me in the waiting list.

She goes, I think we can squeeze you in.

It was literally, I felt like Frank Sinatra for like four seconds of my life, it was fantastic.

It's like that scene in Goodfellows where you're walking through the back way and then they're carrying a table around you.

What do you do again?

I work in construction.

The table we got was about the size of a quarter, but we made it work, so it was great.

And thank you to the Tornado Room for being so magnanimous and fans, and that's amazing.

It's a really

cool

place.

I would just have people come up to me like, I like you on the radio, and then one lady poked me in the chest.

There's like, I like you.

I'm like, oh.

Oh, the limits

and boundaries

lady.

Man, this is what it must feel like to be a motley crew back in the 80s.

Hey,

I

think we should reintroduce our question tonight, Dom, if you don't mind.

Let's talk about

the question.

Okay, question.

Question.

Question.

Pregunta.

Question.

Question.

Okay, I have a question.

Questions.

This question.

Domanda.

Question.

Question.

Questions.

What is the best advice you've ever gotten?

Please share it with us.

We're about to read your text.

It's 855-752-4842-855-75CIVIC.

What is the best advice you've ever received?

And you can also text in your answer on the app, or if you're watching the radio on the stream, drop us a stream comment from YouTube, Facebook, or ex Twitter.

So we have good responses in that one, Greg.

Yeah, very good.

And they were good, too.

They weren't like, you know...

There were some jokes in there, and that's fine.

Be funny.

I'm not against that.

But I liked seeing that people put some real thought into it, and it was really, really nice.

Pete, what about you?

What's the best advice you ever got?

You know, this sounds like a cop-out, but it's really not.

I think if you...

if you receive one piece of advice your whole life, or follow

one

piece of advice,

and

this is 16 years of Catholic school, it's the golden rule.

Treat others the way you want to be treated.

And my parents have always told me that, and walk a mile in someone else's shoes, have empathy, have compassion.

I really believe that, and I don't always do it, but I do try to treat other people the way I'd like to be treated.

My aunt Kathy on my Facebook page put those exact words treat others the way you want to be treated.

I mean, that's it seems like a pretty easy Path to follow, you know, it's not very you know, it's almost like some people who are in power should follow the same thing besides the point

What are you talking about there, Greg?

I don't know.

I'm sorry blacked out there.

We're talking about chocolate and yogurt.

I forgot

Dom, are you always hungry?

Because I feel like every time we mention food, you do this.

Every time yeah, I'm always hungry, you know, you know, he's on a three-week fast.

He's trying to be Bobby sans.

I can't wait for you to turn like 31 years old.

That's gonna be amazing.

Your body just is like no Don with another

big arch Although we've learned that the metabolism doesn't go faster over time.

It

stays the same.

Yeah, well for 40 years.

Yeah, I'm waiting for one of us to

be at a party or some kind of gathering where someone says, yeah, my metabolism is really slowed down in my 30s and 40s.

And you'd be like, well, actually, sir,

what's you doing?

Let me tell you how you're wrong.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news hauls.

What about you, Greg?

Wait did Dom say what I have not made I made fun of him for being hungry all the time

Yes, but I do have I do have one and I wrote it down here because I got I got this from my mom a couple years ago, and she still says it to this day Don't care about things that don't care about you Come over with jobs relationships pretty

much

everything in your life

I'm

sorry.

Thank you, mom.

Yeah, that's amazing.

I heard someone say once, don't worry about a job that would replace you 15 minutes after you left.

Exactly.

Oh, that's great.

Yeah.

That's a great one too.

I've got a few and two of them came from my dad from when I was young and one actually one came from a thought I had myself and I tell people but I try to keep this advice in my heart too.

First, my dad always said, be the kind of person everyone likes because if someone doesn't like you, that means they're a jerk.

I always liked that one.

It's just be nice person basically.

And then the second place he always told me goes, never trust someone who says, trust me.

ever.

Don't ever trust a person who says, trust me.

And then the other piece of advice that actually came through like the oodles and oodles of therapy I've had in my life is, you know, we have people have a tendency to talk down to themselves, say really nasty things about themselves, whether they're saying them out loud is jokes or whether them keeping them up here in the brain box.

But I always say, you know, I not always say, but I thought of this as like, why would you allow yourself

to say something about you that you wouldn't allow other people to say.

So like, why do you allow yourself to be so mean to yourself when you don't allow other people to do that?

Why is that the difference?

And that's something I always say is like, okay, maybe I should just be nicer to myself because other people are nice to me.

So those are like the little ones I always try to keep in my head, but what do we got?

What do we have on the text line, Don?

What have people been dropping as little nuggets of

knowledge?

Yeah, quite a few.

We have Chris in Madison.

He said, the best advice he's ever gotten is when his dad said, don't take any wooden nickels.

So I guess then, you know.

I want to meet the first person who took a wooden nickel and went, oh, what?

What a mistake that was.

We also have Aaron from Madison.

Best advice I ever received was never name your dog a taxi in New York.

I

think I know what Aaron that was.

I think it was

Zomers.

We

also have Brett from Brown Deer.

Best advice he's ever gotten was to keep an open mind and never let anyone tell you what your opinion should be.

He was 12 and had a huge impact in his life to this day.

It wasn't it might it wasn't advice, but my parents once told me I remember they were talking to me They said look you're 14 whatever 13 14 you think you know everything and for some reason in my head I was like I don't know everything so okay, so I've always

caught that idea of like, you know, I'm, I'm 48 now.

I know that when I'm 50, I'll know more than I did at 48.

And I'll use that hopefully for good.

Like you get, as you get older, you know more, you gain more knowledge and more experience and more relationships.

And I remember just at that age, never thinking, well, I know you don't, I'm, I'm an adult, basically.

No, you're not.

You're barely in the high school.

Shut up, Greg.

So that's just like those little nuggets, they're not advice.

It's just things they said that always stuck in my brain.

Uh, here are some good ones on social media.

Mike Desitel says, be true to yourself.

The only hole I would poke in that is what if you're a

jerk?

Mm-hmm.

Mike's not.

He's a great guy.

But Scott Tom says, count to four by saying 1,000, 2,000, 3,000, 4,000.

Check your canopy above you.

If your parachute is not opened, he was in the service.

Pull your ripcord with your right hand, with your left hand carefully released.

Throw your reserve parachute in the proper direction to catch the air.

and below appropriately.

I will never remember all that, but that's okay.

I'm never jumping out of a plane.

So I'm fine

with that.

Welcome to specific advice on nightlight.

I jumped out of a plane.

Someone else pulled the cord for me, so I was fine.

Oh, man.

That's crazy.

On my Facebook page, Nick says, if you're embarrassed by something you did in the past, it means you've grown as a person.

That's...

Love it.

That is a applicable statement for a lot of Americans nowadays.

Joe McLeer, a good friend of Civic Media.

I haven't talked to that guy in a long time.

He says, basically, don't be an idiot.

There you go.

I like that one too.

That's very, very good.

Tim says, not everything is for you.

Very important to remember.

Very, very important to remember.

And then finally, Avery says, you're going to die.

Have fun until then.

Words to live by.

That's

a great

one.

Here's one sleep with one eye open signed peace wife.

I don't know what to make of that Wow, I don't know good thing.

I'm in Madison.

I guess

she'll be sleeping.

She'll be sleeping soundly and I both eyes closed She'll be

splayed out in the bed like it's mine tonight.

She doesn't anyway Amanda on social media says if you can't take care of yourself How do you expect to take care of anyone else great Amanda?

Yeah, Kirby Pope says be original

That's very

use more than that's a very unoriginal piece of Stacey

Sue says well if someone is being negative or being a narcissist I say to them that doesn't work for me.

Okay,

that's I

can't go for that.

No.

All right Well, we'll be talking about this more we'll be reading more of your text comments as well as you want to drop something on the livestream as well You can sleep something on Facebook as well find us

Let us know what is the best advice you've ever gotten.

When we come back, we are entering into another edition of the Nightlight Movie Club tonight featuring Guy Ritchie's The Gentleman.

So don't go anywhere.

Stick around.

You're listening to Pete Schwabba and Greg Bach here on Nightlight on the Civic Media Network.

Stay tuned and stay close.

Ladies and gentlemen, please take your seats.

The show is about to begin.

Have you ever spent 30 minutes trying to pick a movie and still end up watching nothing?

Well,

we did it for you.

This is the Nightlight Movie

Club.

Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen.