Quarterbacks, Swedish Meatballs, and Paul Newman (Hour 1)

Broadcasting

live statewide from the Civic Media Studios in Green Bay.

This is Night Light with Pete Schwabba, your inside source on everything entertainment from Wisconsin to Hollywood.

And now, a guy who wears a bathing suit in the shower, Pete Schwabba.

Welcome to Night Light, ladies and gentlemen.

Here we go it is Tuesday night great show and the works here and It is good to be here tonight talking to all of you about the things in life We love hope everybody is having a great day wherever you're joining us from in our chilly frigid state Let's bring some warmth tonight and talk about movies and TV and quarterbacks We've got a big show tonight lots of fun stuff a couple great in studio guests two of our best chums on the show tonight

And a new friend who wrote a book about quarterbacks Conrad, how are you?

I'm doing good.

Yeah.

Yeah, and not I mean, it's cold, but it's not negative cold anymore

You are a very weather-related person and I find that hilarious because you've lived in Wisconsin your whole life and Most of the people you and I are a little bit different because most of the people that live here Really?

I shouldn't say most I would say more than 50% though.

So most embrace the cold

They're like, I love winter.

It's like a macho thing or something.

I don't embrace negative weather.

You don't really embrace winter though, either.

I would say you're not a

winter guy.

You know, but if it's like 30, I'm fine with that.

30

is nothing.

Yeah, but if it's in that wind, I'm just

I'm just wishing for it's crazy.

I'm hoping for 30 degree weather.

Yeah, I just think it's funny because like

Often times when I say how you doing you reference the weather like your mood it does if you're gonna live here You just gotta like I think you got to put it out of your head and you just got to be like yeah, whatever man.

I had a great day

You know what?

Just my favorite time of the year is when I can open my windows finally So I'm just looking forward to that

and yet you wear shorts in the winter Yeah, sometimes

not all the time.

I'd say I'm not when I was in high school I did that though like a lot not anymore really I'll wear short than side obviously, but like when I go to school

I'd wear shorts.

If you'd be like, what are you doing?

Well, I would work at my daughter's school when she was in middle school.

I worked with kids there.

And I think that's a macho thing.

Like for kids just to go, oh, first of all, kids are just going to be kids.

But when they show up in shorts, that's one thing.

But when they show up in shorts in a t-shirt and flip flops, when it's the middle of January, that is they're trying to make a statement.

They're, they're making a statement that they need to turn down the heat in the school.

Yeah, exactly.

We can, we can freeze them out.

Uh, I had a weird drive here tonight.

I had a little game of chicken going with another driver and I do not ever instigate any of this stuff, but I drive an hour to get here and I drive an hour at home at night.

And when I, on the way down today, someone passed me.

I was in the right lane.

Someone passed me and then slowed down right away.

And

I don't understand what that's about.

Obviously, they're trying to rattle you, maybe.

But here's what drove me crazy.

I eventually passed them again.

I was like, all right, this guy's going to go 60.

I'm going to pass him.

So I passed him.

And then he tried to pass me again.

So obviously, I'm in this really weird game with this dude.

But here's what's funny.

Here's what a numbskull this guy is.

He's got his business on the side of his pickup truck.

And I'm like you know easy would be for me to report you or just say this guy's being a horse's ass and Endangering other people because he was it wasn't just he and I it was like there were other people that he would weave in and out of and I'm just like this guy either just lost it Maybe he lost a huge contract and he's taking it out on me and my Honda But it's just the weirdest thing like You're a jerk either way But you've got your business like the phone numbers right there

I could call him with the number on his door and say, this is the guy next to you.

Quit being a D-bag.

Learn how to

drive.

You know, it'd be awesome if you did call that number and then he picked up.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

That would be... Yeah, this guy's driving like a jerk and he's just like, I think that's me.

Would say to him I go hey, I need some work done on my and then I would say the name on his truck And you go I can do that for you and I go I would but you're driving like such an idiot.

I'm not gonna hire you Now I pass him again that is show Big news was constitute today Madison is getting an Ikea you hear about this.

Oh,

that is big stuff.

However Those of you who are Ikea enthusiasts, they are not getting the Swedish meatballs which Ikea is known

for

I think people go there just to eat, even if they don't need furniture.

Do they?

They just go there for the meatballs.

Yeah, I know.

People love those Swedish meatballs.

Where is an IKEA that's like in Wisconsin?

Is

there one in

Milwaukee?

I think there might be.

I think there might be too.

I feel like I've seen that.

Maybe it used to be like an old American store or something.

American sold

electronics.

It's the only one in the state and it's an Oak Creek.

Do they have the Swedish meatballs?

If anyone has been to the Ikea in Oak Creek, please let us know.

Let us know.

Because then we can make a road trip out of it.

Correct.

Get some sweet savings on a couch and some Swedish meatballs.

An awkwardly designed couch that only Ikea tools can put together.

Yes.

We'll get some Swedish meatballs and we'll road trip it.

We're a little closer to Milwaukee than we are to Madison right now, but either way.

But congrats, Madison.

Ikea's a good store.

I've gotten a lot of stuff

there.

I don't think I've ever been to an Ikea, so

dude you got to go and just like just eat the meatballs Well, here's the thing.

I don't know.

I can't remember how they they did this I haven't been to one in quite a while But usually they would make you walk through the whole store Where they have everything set up and people are sitting down trying the beds the chairs whatever and you loop It's like a little it's like those bank lines with where they're roped off and you have to walk but it's furniture and home furnishings

And I think, I want to say the restaurant was at the end of all that.

So you got to, you're going to get like 2,000 steps in before you eat your Swedish meatballs.

Well, see this what you knew.

You can take that walk, find a, just scope out for a bed, go get your meatballs.

Yeah.

Then take a nap on that bed.

But then you got to go all the way back to the start.

Yeah, but that, that's where you're napping though.

So it's like, you get there and then you can

have to eat

your meatballs.

All right, that works.

But either way, it's great to have Ikea in Madison.

Congrats, Madisonians.

You just kind of bring your own snacks, apparently.

You can't get the meatballs.

Hey, the phone lines are always open here at Nightlight, folks.

855-752-4842-8555, 75 Civic.

Be part of the show.

We're going to tell you the question of the night in just a moment and would love it if you guys participated and just share your thoughts throughout the show, regardless of what we're talking about.

American Idol, there was a Wisconsin native made her debut on American Idol last night.

Now, I don't watch American Idol, but I did watch a clip and her name is Genevieve Hayward.

She's from Lake Geneva and she's really good.

It was just like a minute long clip, but she has a lot of talent.

So I wish her luck.

That's kind of cool.

What do you want?

You watch reality TV, you know, yeah.

Reality meaning football.

Well, that's I guess that's not really a reality show.

That's more of a

Contest show.

No, I don't watch reality TV at all.

I you know the last one I watch was Milt Manor.

That's a competition show.

It's

too it's too good.

That's a disturbing competition show between father and son to see who can bed a woman.

It is so awful.

It is terrible.

It's the best show I have ever watched.

Is it coming back?

That's what I want to know

I'm hoping they have a season three.

Yeah, we'll talk I Did notice this this is this drives me crazy.

I have said this before I love the internet before ads took it over like You could lose yourself in a YouTube rabbit hole and not play any ads get like six hours of straight music Starting at nine o'clock and you say well just listen to music for a half hour six hours later You've watched concerts and everything, but there were no ads and now and it's the same with streaming

Like when streaming TV shows started, you just watched them.

There were no ads whatsoever.

Now, I almost am ready.

When you reintroduce ads, it makes it so much harder to sit through them because we know that life without those ads.

But now, when an ad comes up and it does that countdown, so I know I have to listen to five more seconds of this ad, I literally, I could pull a muscle trying to click off of that ad because I'm just so annoyed.

Now part of that's me.

I admit that But I cannot stand these ads it's terrible and when you when you're looking for content for your show when you go to all these entertainment websites like IMDB and Variety and you know New York Post or whatever all the local news was constantly the ads drive you crazy I just can't do it anymore, and I don't know.

There's no way around it You'll be great is if I could afford to hire someone just to sit through all the ads

So you'd be like all right.

I'm done with this article well find my next one

Yeah, never gonna have that kind of money.

That's the problem.

You know you Have you considered getting an ad blocker?

I've tried those.

I

don't think they work Okay, they work for me if I use I use one of my Mac book for YouTube Yeah, and sometimes it works sometimes it says you need to unblock this ad so we can play it So it's like a mixture of times that works and sometimes it doesn't

All right, I think without further ado, folks, we need to get to the night like question of the night.

Let's talk about the question.

Okay, question.

Question.

Question.

Pregunta.

Question.

Question.

Okay, I have a question.

Questions.

This question.

Domanda.

Question.

Questions.

Paul Newman's birthday was yesterday.

Our question of the night, what is your favorite Paul Newman movie?

You could argue that Paul Newman is the greatest male actor

most iconic, most handsome, I don't know, he's got, you can make an argument for all of those things with Paul Newman.

I love the guy, I love his work, love his movies, love him in a movie.

He's one of those guys that can take a mediocre movie and make it more interesting just by his presence.

So our question of the night is, what is your favorite Paul Newman movie?

855-752-4842-855-75 Civic.

You can also text us on the app.

Civic Media app is very easy to use, or if you're watching the radio on YouTube, Facebook, or X, drop us a stream comment and I will read it on the radio.

Be part of the show, folks.

Always more fun when you guys participate.

I had a great story about Paul Newman, our grade school in California.

One of the other parents was an actor.

And his career kind of sputtered, but he was mentored by Paul Newman.

And I think he played the Paul Newman character or something.

There's something to the story.

I don't remember all of it, but on Cat on a Hot Tin Roof, and he got to move in with Paul Newman and Joanne Woodward for like a month while they were working on this show together.

And he tells the story that Paul Newman taught him how to make dirty eggs.

And I think that's about the coolest thing I can think of.

Paul Newman.

Teaching how to make anything.

The dirty eggs.

I didn't even know dirty eggs were before that story, but you just cook them in bacon grease.

Did you know that, Khan?

No.

That's dirty eggs.

I made some eggs this morning.

Yeah.

Were they dirty just because you were too lazy to clean the pan after you made the bacon or did you intentionally?

I

don't typically have bacon anymore, but

no.

That actually sounds dynamite.

Yeah, I don't even know if

I trust people that don't eat bacon.

Well, I just don't eat it as much anymore.

Yeah.

I don't want to eat it.

Tastes so good though.

But my god, you wake up in the morning and you smell bacon and coffee, game over.

I guess so if I am like, they have a shot after that.

At a hotel or something, and then I go down for breakfast.

I'm wolf, I'm wolfened down, so like eight pieces.

So you'll eat

hotel bacon?

Yeah, because it's already made there, you know?

You don't have to do much.

That's interesting.

All right, but let us know what your favorite Paul Newman movie is.

Mine is Slap Shot and the Sting.

You got one, Con?

Cars.

Oh, nice poll.

He played Doc Hudson.

Doc Hudson.

He was great in that.

Hey, we have a great show tonight, folks.

Let us know what your favorite Paul Newman movie is.

We are talking to Seth Wickershum after the news, which happens in just about 10 minutes.

Seth is the ESPN senior writer.

and the author of a new best-selling book called, American Kings, a Biography of the Quarterback.

Seth will be here in a few minutes.

Frank Hermans is here tonight.

Heather Heil, two of our Nightlight Besties, dropping by the studio.

It's a really fun night when we come back.

I'm gonna read some of your texts and tell you about a really, I'm gonna tell you about a movie I saw.

Why do you like that kind?

All right, we're coming right back.

It's Nightlight with Pete Schwabba.

I'm the Civic Media Radio

Network.

Welcome

back.

I'm Pete Schwab.

This is Nightlight.

You've got the Civic Media Radio Network.

Hope everybody's having a great Tuesday.

We are live on the air from beautiful downtown Green Bay broadcasting statewide, and I love this Conrad when we get a text from someone and then they text something I don't think they meant for us.

Yes, I did see that.

Teresa in the 608 says, yes, Oak Creek has the cafeteria.

Oh, we're going.

The Milwaukee IKEA has the Swedish meatballs.

She texted just a couple minutes later, ETA 530.

So I don't know if Teresa wants us to meet her at the Ikea or if that was an accident

Well, it wouldn't you know, it's gonna take us a little bit longer to

get a little yeah, you got a show to do trees But thank you anyway.

We would love to meet you at 530 if we could sometimes you do get texted people just accidentally text us, you know There's always someone asking Conrad what he's wearing that's weird

and it's always just a two two-piece top, you

know

All right, great fun, folks.

New sports and weather coming up in just about six minutes.

After that, Seth Wickersham will be here, ESPN senior writer and the author of the book, American Kings.

a biography of the quarterback.

Seth does outstanding work at ESPN.

He did a lot of investigative work on the Colin Kaepernick situation, Deflate Gate, and he wrote a book about that as well.

He's an incredibly accomplished sports journalist, and he will be here to talk about his new book and lots of other fun stuff too.

That's at 535.

Frank Hermans joins us at 635.

It'll be great to have Frank in the studio.

Always fun.

And he's bringing a banjo con.

I mean that's

that's pretty

fantastic break out the jug.

We're gonna have a little hootenanny in here It's gonna be a lot of fun and then our pal Heather Hile Helps us close things down.

She'll be along at 720 in the studio Always fun to have Heather here.

She's gonna tell us what's going on at the Green Bay Children's Museum And there is a lot going on I just looked at their website earlier today great stuff So really fun show our question of the night in honor of Paul Newman's birthday.

What is your favorite Paul Newman movie?

That is tonight's question so

Tony, the trucker sent us a text last night.

And last night's question was, who would you want to be your mentor?

And he picked Bob Uker.

But then right at the end of the show, or at the end of the show, we just missed it, he sent us, he said, Pete, if Bob was too busy, I'd pick Morgan Freeman.

I think, you know, Morgan, he's pretty busy too.

Really, he's like every movie ever.

He's always giving his voice out to movies, not just his acting talents, but-

Correct.

But, be that as it may, he's still gonna be easier to reach now than Bob Uker.

Yeah, that's true, very unfortunately.

But anyway, keep those texts coming folks, let us know what your favorite Paul Newman movie is.

I was in a hurry today, coming into the studio, and I do this so infrequently.

When's the last time you had McDonald's?

Probably about like three months ago, somewhere around

there.

Alright, it's been really probably

Well over a year for me Maybe and I was starving and it was like I had three fast food places on the way here and I just picked the one with the shortest line Yeah, it was McDonald's because I was in a hurry not a huge hurry, but I wanted it I just don't want to sit in a line and I ate two McDonald's hamburgers and I Thought I wanted to die afterwards.

I know what it is like I grew up eating those burgers and I used to love them

Well, I mean if you actually have had

Good burgers, those are at the bottom of the list.

Correct.

You

know, just, I mean, honestly, they're not even that cheap anymore compared

to what they were.

No, they're not at all.

Yeah, but they're not.

It's ridiculous.

They

still

have a dollar menu.

I would say maybe it's worth it, but it's not.

Oh, that's a great point.

Have you ever had a White Castle burger?

No, I've never tried White Castle.

The best thing about White Castle is when you drive up to the drive-through and you say, I'll have, you call them White Castles.

You don't say burgers.

See how three white castles, they'll go three white castles.

They're calling it the name of the store.

And I just find that hilarious.

Yeah, that's, I've never, I haven't, I haven't heard great reviews of white castle, but

it's great when you've been drunk, when you've been drinking.

It's so amazing because you can just inhale them.

They're small and they have mustard and onions.

I don't think they ever came with ketchup on them, but.

They're delicious, Conrad.

It's a delicacy.

I would try it.

I don't even

know where White Castle is in Wisconsin.

Listen, you got Google Maps?

If it's not in Green Bay, I'm not

going.

That's the spirit.

Dave on the stream says, Slap Shot.

I'm with you, Dave.

You and me, buddy.

Yeah, Slap Shot.

Paul Newman.

It's a really funny movie.

And even if you're not a hockey fan, like, I think hockey's fine.

But when I was a kid, I knew nothing about hockey.

But I loved that movie.

And I couldn't believe the guy that was in the sting was in this movie, too.

It was kind of had some dirty moments and some rated R humor.

I don't want to say it seemed beneath Paul Newman, but he owned it.

He was great in it.

Playing an aging hockey player.

So I'm with Dave there.

Slapshot is one of my favorites, as well as the sting.

The sting is one of my all-time favorite movies.

Conrad's mom chiming in, agreeing.

Conrad, your parents, either one or the other, typically agree with me.

Sometimes both on the same night.

Sometimes they divide it up, but Paul says the sting so great choice.

I just I just looked it up the closest white castles in Kenosha

Here's what we do we can stop at Ikea for some Swedish meatballs as an appetizer and then we go to white castles

We'll need one of those beds for a nap after them

But when you go to Ikea in the cafeteria and you want Swedish meatballs, they're not gonna go, you know two orders of Ikea like they do a white castle that's like

Six White Castles.

Two IKEA's, please.

It's just so, I don't know why I think that's so funny.

They just call their burgers the name of the store that's like three Burger Kings.

Three Taco Bells, please.

Yeah, exactly.

It's because they only have, I think, burgers.

Maybe you can get doubles.

Then they would just call them double White Castles.

So who knows?

Teresa confirms it.

Did I read this already?

She says yes, Oakree.

Yeah, I did read that.

Teresa, and then of course, I hope Teresa made her appointment.

She's got less than a minute to get there.

ETA 530, that I don't think was meant for us.

Brett in the 920 says, oh, I loved The Sting, one of my favorite movies ever.

The Sting is by far and away, our leader already.

It is early folks, but let us know your favorite Paul Newman movie.

Chris from Sun Prairie says, cool hand Luke, love that movie.

That's gonna get a lot of votes tonight too, I know.

We got social media responses we'll get to.

Lots going on here.

After New Sports and Weather folks, Seth Wickersham, senior ESPN writer and author of the book, American Kings,

A documentary of the quarterback is going to be here.

He's great.

And don't miss it.

Frank Hermans, Heather Heil, so much going on.

Glad you're here.

This is Pete Schwab at Nightlight on the Civic Media Radio

Network.

What is your favorite Paul Newman movie that is tonight's question of the night folks let us know and be part of the show and

We will have fun and reading your text on the radio.

It'll be great.

So my next guest is an incredibly accomplished writer and does great work at ESPN as a senior writer.

He is a New York Times bestselling author with his most recent book, American Kings, a biography of the quarterback, reaching the top of the charts ridiculously fast.

It is my pleasure to welcome to Nightlight for the first time, Mr. Seth Wickersham.

Hey, Seth.

How's it going, man?

Doing very well.

Thank you.

It's good to talk to you.

Where are you joining us from tonight?

I'm in snowy Connecticut.

Listen, it can't be colder than here.

This has been ridiculous in the Midwest.

So I don't

know.

No, it's just snowy.

It's not too cold, but it's very snowy.

OK.

Well, it's great to have you.

Before we start, I have to ask you, do you have a favorite Paul Newman movie?

Oh my gosh, do I have time to Google Paul Newman movies?

You listen, take as much time as you want, we can come back to that.

Yeah, I might have to come back to that one.

All right,

and I'll give you, you know, since you're a sports guy, a slap shot is always an option too.

Well, I was gonna say that, but I figured that that was like the cliche that I would be like walking into here, so.

Well, there's no right or wrong answer, take your time and ruminate all you like.

Listen, this is American Kings, just is a bestseller.

It's your second huge book that's a bestseller that, if my research shows, but you've also done a lot of great investigative reports and all that kind of stuff.

But for those of us who are not, haven't read American Kings yet, but love football, love the NFL, what can you tell us about it?

Well, yeah, thank you.

You know, look,

I think that like that job, it's such a unique job.

It's such a uniquely American job.

And it comes with all of these very interesting kind of responsibilities and hopes and dreams that are very specific to it.

And so, we expect something different from quarterbacks than we do from point guards or center fielders.

And so I wanted to try to understand why

And I wanted to try to understand what kind of people are drawn to doing it.

What type of person do they have to become to kind of survive the winnowing that you go from being one of 16,000 starting quarterbacks in high school every year in America to 858 in college to 32 in the NFL to being one of the five great ones.

Wow.

And what does it mean to live with that for the rest of your life?

And I wanted to look at guys who, you know, our current quarterbacks like, like Kayla Williams and Arch Manning and Drake May.

And I wanted to look at, you know, quarterbacks throughout history from John L. Way to Steve Young to Joe Montana to Warren Moon and even people who are no longer with us, like Johnny Unitas, Bob Waterfield, people like that.

So that was, that was my goal with it.

So you're obviously a sports fan.

I know you played sports growing up.

You're probably have a wealth of knowledge.

You could probably write a book off the top of your head.

But having said that, you're known for this comprehensive deep dives you do, which are so great.

Given how much you know, how much research still had to go into making this book what it is?

Well, you're humbled by what you don't know.

And I think that like, you know, when you become

you know, professional at something, you know, and I'm sure that you can relate to this, you know, you become good enough at it to know how bad you are.

And so I think that like knowledge is kind of one of those things that like, you know, it's a tool and it helps you, it helps inform the questions that you don't have the answers to yet.

And so, you know, when I was doing this book, even though I had spent, you know,

most of my career at ESPN writing about quarterbacks, I still felt like that there was not only a bigger story that hadn't been told really ever about the quarterbacks in the position, but also questions that I just hadn't answered.

And so that's what led me on it.

And I traveled a ton for the book.

doing the research for it.

It was not just, you know, reading through history books and autobiographies and biographies.

I did a ton of traveling and, um, you know, thank God because, uh, you know, I think the book would have been much worse without that.

I think that like, you know, you're, like I said, you're always humbled by what you don't know.

You may like traveling in terms of obviously maybe setting up interviews, you had some great interviews, but like going to hometowns, that kind of thing, seeing.

All of it.

Yeah.

I

mean, you know, I visited, I saw Joe Namath in two different states.

You know, Bob Waterfield was a watershed quarterback for the Los Angeles Rams in the 40s.

He was married to Jane Russell.

They were really one of the country's first true power couples and kind of set up the idea that the quarterback can get the, you know, the prettiest girl, the hottest girl,

right?

You

know, and, you know,

He's no longer living, but you know, I went to Van Nys High School where he went and I visited, you know, his youngest son in Montana where he lives now.

I mean, all that stuff, you know, was incredibly important.

And, you know, Colin Hurley, who's a young quarterback that I followed around to try to give readers a glimpse of what it's like to be a high school quarterback now.

I mean, I visited him, I think in six, seven states, if I remember right.

So it was it was quite a bit and, you know, but it was all worth it.

So what did you find out about?

the psyche of the quarterback or what was there a common thread other than like leadership skills, crazy athleticism?

Was there a common thread?

Well, that's the interesting thing, right?

Because like I sat with Steve Young and I asked him, you know, look, he's a first ballot hall of fame.

I asked him, you know, what does, you know, what are all the hats that a starting quarterback for a pro team has to wear?

And he starts rattling them off and it's everything from

you know, spokesperson for a multi-billion-dollar organization, field general, matinee, idol, community leader, you know, breathtaking jerk.

You know, all of these things, and then, oh, by the way, you also have to be able to throw the ball through windows that people can't see much less exploit.

And I think that, like, one of the most interesting things that I've found is that, you know, quarterback has gotten so big in America, and there's so much...

pressure and scrutiny and hype around them at a young age, that at this point I think that people who become quarterbacks are not only gifted throwers and intense competitors, but I think that they have like a hole in their personality.

that's very similar to like a politician or maybe a pop star that needs constant love and admiration and acceptance and really kind of has to live in a bubble, I think.

And I think that that to me is one of the most kind of fascinating things.

And again, you know, you don't you don't see that with pitchers or, you know, centers and basketball, you know, there's complications with those things also.

But there's, you know, we've

We've placed quarterback on a certain pedestal as a culture.

And I think that that's what makes it just so unique.

And that's what makes the people who do it different than other athletes.

You know, it's interesting because I think Brady is considered the goat.

I would say I would argue Joe Montana too, because he was like Jordan.

He was undefeated when he got to the big game.

You could certainly make an argument for him.

But you mentioned Steve Young.

This guy, if he didn't go to the USFL or ride the pine behind Montana.

His skill set, he was a joy to watch, whether it was his arm or his legs.

I think at one point he was the fastest runner on the 49ers.

Where would he have been in your opinion if he hadn't, if he had come out, you know, and gone right to the NFL and

started?

I don't know.

Yeah, I think that like he was one of those guys and I think Joe Montana was like this also that benefited from the place that he ended up being at, even though it was difficult.

I think that, you know, we talk about system quarterbacks and it's kind of said is a little bit of shade.

There's a little bit of a backhanded compliment, right?

It basically credits the coaches, X's and O's and schemes.

and says that the quarterback is productive because of that.

But really, every quarterback in NFL history is a system quarterback.

And

you

need to have a good system.

Look at John Elway's statistics under Dan Reeves and look at them under Mike Shanahan.

It's the system.

It's not to say that John Elway wasn't a good quarterback.

I'm just saying that they're all system quarterbacks in some way.

And I think that when you look at Young, what fascinated me about him was not only

You know, he was a great athlete who had to learn how to be a great quarterback.

And he's proof that it can be learned.

You know, there's a lot of that.

Is it nature or nurture?

And he's proof that you can go from being kind of raw to being, you know, one of the most accurate throwers in NFL history.

And he can articulate it in a way that's really fascinating.

And that's what drew me to him.

He's just a great quarterback philosopher.

That's a great answer.

Um, how do those guys

I don't understand how they can play that position unless they're like six, five.

The linemen are huge.

The linemen are wide and tall.

How does Caleb, well, I'm a bear fan.

How does Caleb Williams at six, one, even see where he's throwing the ball?

Yeah, you know, a lot of quarterbacks, some of them are super tall.

Like I think one of the reasons why, you know, I wrote about it a lot in my book on the New England Patriots, but one of the reasons why

Fame hit Tom Brady so hard at a young age was because he's so tall and like people don't quite realize that about him.

But like, you know, he is really um He's listed as six four and I'd say that like when you're standing next to him You think he's like six six and so there was really nowhere for him to hide a lot of quarterbacks aren't as tall as you as you think like even young and Montana and Caleb Williams and even Brett farf to an extent, you know, they're they're they're six one six two six foot

And so, you know, how do they do it?

And I think that like that's part of what makes quarterbacking, you know, there's different stages, right?

Where you can be, you know, first as a rookie, you're just trying to survive.

I

think that's the most important.

There's really not a whole lot you can draw from it other than mental and physical toughness.

And then, you know, can you learn and build on what you, the base of knowledge that you have and become proficient.

And then it's, can you become great?

And then it's, can you become an artist?

And I think that when you become a true artist, guys like Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, who aren't the most, you know, physically gifted athletes, can be mesmerizing and quarterbacks and first ballot hall of famers because they know how to manipulate motion and activity, you know, using their eyes and using their shoulders.

And I think that like, that's what helps those guys.

do it.

And so I think that like, you know, Caleb Williams has obviously shown, you know, an incredible ability to make the hardest throws at the most difficult moments.

You know, consistency is a little difficult for him, but he's shown that during the highest pressure moments, he has something special.

And I think that like, as he gets more experience, you'll see, you know, maybe some of the Superman throws fade a little bit at the artistry of just raw quarterbacking.

increase

that would make bear fans Cardiovascular systems much healthier if he could do that

Well, it's interesting.

It's interesting because you know, I interviewed Kevin O'Connell who's the coach of the

Vikings.

Oh, yeah

If he was a quarterback at college and you know, he got drafted in the NFL by the Patriots and he figured he would sit behind Tom Brady and then go take his skills elsewhere and be a star and he really never had an NFL career He just kept getting cut from teams and so

You know, when he became a coach, coaches often, you know, they teach through auto, you know, autobiographical experiences.

And, you know, I asked him like what he had learned about himself and about quarterbacking.

He said, you know, when I was trying out for teams and I was just hoping to make the roster, I would, I would focus on making these amazing John L. Way, Caleb Williams like throws.

that have the wow factor to them when really great quarterbacking is about embracing the mundane and doing it at the highest level possible.

And he went and looked at all of Joe Montana's game winning drives and a lot of Brady's and John Elway's even.

And what stood out was not that they make these crazy throws all the time, although they would at moments.

It was that they would check down to the running back and they would be moving the chains.

It doesn't sound as sexy as some of these brilliant moments that we've come to want from quarterbacks.

But really, great quarterbacking is about doing the mundane at the highest level possible.

My guest is Seth Wickershimm.

He is the author of American Kings, a biography of the quarterback and an ESPN senior writer.

We'll have a couple more minutes with Seth.

We're talking football, quarterbacks, and I've got some great stuff.

I'm going to ask him about Colin Kaepernick when we come back.

This is Pete Schwabba and Nightlight on the Civic Media Radio Network.

Hey, this is Lauren Holly, and you're listening to Night Light with Pete Schwabba.

Welcome back.

My guest is Seth Wickershum.

He does great work at ESPN.

He's a senior writer there, and he is the author of books like American Kings, A Biography of the Quarterback.

And it's better to be feared than New England Patriots' dynasty in the pursuit of greatness.

Seth.

Writing a book like that, like your previous book, it's better to be feared.

You did great investigative work with Colin Kaepernick.

Are you ever worried about retribution from, or having, being cut off a little bit, or is having ESPN help with that?

Are people scared to see

who

sometimes?

Well, I think that like, you know, so this is my 25th year doing this.

And so I think that like you kind of learned, you know,

Bob Woodward the great investigator border has this line where you know, you have to learn to live with awkwardness and proceed And so I think that like as you as you get into journalism you kind of know that these are like these aren't very You know natural

relationships that you have with people, right?

I mean, you know, as a journalist, you're constantly budding your nose into things that aren't your business and trying to learn as much about them to the point where you feel like, you know, you have a command of it.

And that's, you know, that's can be difficult and it can be contentious at times.

And so I think that like, you know, your goal is to always be accurate and fair and conflict happens.

And, you know, I've had NFL, I've had at least one NFL owner.

you know, take action against ESPN on behalf of like some of the work that I've done.

But, um, you know, ESPN stood behind me the entire time.

And, um, you know, honestly, I think that that's just kind of, you know, it's, it's just kind of how things go.

It's a very, being an investigative reporter is a very odd job.

Um, I, it's interesting.

Like I mentioned Colin Kaepernick, to me,

from a

casual fan sample, I was a casual fan.

I was a pretty good.

back up intramural quarterback at flight football when I was at DePaul University.

Other than that, no, but like, like, we all have a little uncle Rico in this.

Yes.

Oh, we should have played that tag con.

We've had him on the show.

He's great.

But, you know, when it comes to Colin Kaepernick, the NFL seemed to cave when it came to bad bunny and sticking by their Super Bowl halftime selection this year.

They stood by it.

Who calls those shots?

Is it the owners that they take a vote?

Is it Roger Goodell?

Where do they get their backbone from, so to speak?

Yeah, I mean, all of those decisions are different.

I would say that when it comes to Super Bowl halftime entertainment, it's pretty much done.

It's kind of outsourced by this outfit named Rock Nation, which is kind of JZ's company and agency.

And they, they pick who the halftime entertainment will be.

And so now Roger Goodell could say, you know, we're not doing that.

You know, he obviously has the authority to be able to do that, but he doesn't.

He defers to them.

And then, you know, when it comes to personnel decisions like Colin Kaepernick, I mean, I think that like, you know, the evidence is pretty strong to suggest that he was blackballed because of who he had become.

And, you know, not necessarily because he he refused to stand for the national anthem because there was other players who refused to stand.

Right.

Also, I think that, like, you know, it just became like a momentum that even he couldn't, you know, quite combat.

And, you know, he had that that I think I think Adele wanted him back in the league.

And, you know, he kind of the league helps set up like a

like a tryout, you know, like a scouting session for him.

I believe it was outside of Atlanta a couple years ago to try to like, you know, show teams what he still had left.

But at the end of the day, you know, teams, I think when they looked at the entire package of what you're getting with Kaepernick, you know, elected to not, you know, take on that, you know,

force and you know, and it's too bad because Colin Kaepernick was He was a terrific quarterback.

He was one throw away from being a Super Bowl champion and You know, he's someone who joined, you know a long list of athletes who use their platform You know to stand up for causes that were bigger than sports

Absolutely

What is your next book, Seth?

Do you have something picked out?

Do you see a potential book about the quarterback class?

You mentioned Caleb Williams.

You got Bonix,

Caleb

Williams, Drake May, you know, Jayden Daniels.

Yeah, fortunately, I got a little lucky in that when I was reporting the book, I reported on a lot of those 2024 quarterbacks.

So I had, you know, the secret analytics study that led Sean Payton to want to draft Bonix.

And I spent time with Drake May.

I wrote a lot about Caleb Williams and, you know, his

his concerns about going to a place like the Bears, which, you know, it had a horrible history of drafting and developing and coaching quarterbacks.

And so I kind of lucked out with those guys.

I mean, you know, in terms of books for me, what's next is there's going to be a collection of my ESPN work, kind of like a journalist version of their greatest hits that comes out in September.

And then, you know, the next book of pure

you know, original work, I'm not quite sure yet.

You know, I think that like to write a book, it's it's an interesting, it's an interesting and torturous process.

But you really, as an author, you have to believe that, you know, a book has to be out there, and that you're the only one who can do it.

Like you have to believe that to be able to do a book because they're so hard that like, you know, you really have to have that kind of emotional tailwind behind you.

And so, you know, I don't take that lightly.

And I, and I

When I do do books, I feel like it's something that I just simply have to do.

We are coming right back for Act 2.

This is Night Light with Pete Schwabba on the Civic Media Radio Network.

Broadcasting live from the Civic Media Studios in Green Bay.

This is Night Light with Pete Chwaba.

Your inside source on everything entertainment from Wisconsin to Hollywood.

And now a guy who still likes to build a fort.

Pete Chwaba.

Welcome back.

This is Nightlight with Pete Schwabba.

We have a few more minutes with our current guest, Mr. Seth Wickershum, a senior writer at ESPN and author of American Kings, a biography of the quarterback.

I mentioned earlier, I'm a bear fan living in Packer country here.

And

I've taken a lot of abuse over the course of my life.

But what do you say about Packer fans?

They are great fans.

This is such a great story, having a professional sports team in a town of 100,000 people.

Have you been here?

I

have.

Many times.

Yeah.

And, you know, I think that, like, you know what?

I was at the Broncos Packers game this year when really, you know, it was kind of the beginning of their season kind of slipping away because, you know, Parsons got hurt in the third quarter of that game.

And, you know, they had a lead and Denver was able to come back and win it.

And, you know, I think that, like, this was a weird season as evidenced by the two teams in the Super Bowl.

But, like, you know, the.

Players that we were used to seeing contending at the end and the teams that we were used to seeing contending at the end really weren't and so It was a chance for in the AFC, you know teams like Denver and you know Buffalo to an extent and obviously the Patriots to Make a Super Bowl run When you don't have my homes and the Marjaxon and all these great, you know Joe Burrell all these great quarterbacks that you have to get through and in the NFC, you know the Packers

clearly thought this was their window.

You know what I mean?

And this was their time.

And, you know, I think, I think the NFL generally, you know, has a better story to tell when the Packers are, you know, among the very best teams.

And so I feel for Packers fans that

You know that this really this season was really set up to be terrific and it just kind of slipped away due to a couple things that were unfortunate a couple decisions and some bad luck and You know in the other sense, I don't feel bad for Packers fans for having you know a 25 year run 30 year run of just you know elite phenomenal quarterback play

Yeah, you're you're speaking to the choir there So all right, I want to ask you Seth this has been bothering me.

I'm not a marketing genius, but I

have a

brother-in-law and my sister lives in Cleveland I've never wanted to take over a franchise and just say rebrand page one rewrite

What is going on?

Those uniforms are horrible.

The name of the team is awful.

I mean, I know they're named after a legend, but why would you want to go there if you're a player?

It drives me crazy.

They just need a complete reboot.

Go where?

Cleveland to the Browns.

Oh, sorry.

Sorry.

You broke up for a second.

Oh, that's OK.

Well, yes.

And so, you know, and I've had some history with the Browns in writing about their dysfunction from ownership down.

So.

I have particular insight into that, but I think that there are teams that are just consistent underachievers.

And until recently, I would put the bears in that category.

And I think that if I were a marketing executive at the NFL, at 345 Park Avenue in New York City, I would be severely worried that these markets,

that didn't matter to football fans like New York, two bad teams, two really irrelevant teams, like Chicago until this past year, major market that just has no real oomph and buzz around it.

And Cleveland is one of, look, they're an iconic team and iconic franchise.

And they can't, for a lot of reasons,

kind of get out of their own way.

And, you know, we thought that everything that had happened with the Browns under the Hazel Mara, you know, was like the worst at almost every decision.

And then, you know, to give to Sean Watson the contract that they gave him and to trade the capital that they traded away for him and to get the output that they've gotten from him is really just astounding.

I mean, you know, they own the worst trade in NFL history.

Oh, that's

a great answer.

Seth Wickersham, it has been great getting to know you really appreciate your time.

Have you given any thought to your Paul Newman movie?

God, you know, that was like the one question I wasn't quite ready for let's do this favorite sports movie

I mean, you know, we made, we made the Uncle Rico reference, you know, Napoleon Dynamite's not exactly a sports movie, but it is very heavy sports themes.

I mean, you know, Moneyball is a great sports movie.

Man, we'll try to go through.

Yeah, you know, I think Moneyball appeals to be a little bit more, but.

I know that there's a better answer that I should be giving that I haven't quite thought of.

No, that's great.

And don't rule out the fish that save Pittsburgh either.

Seth

Wickershaw,

keep up the incredible work you do at ESPN.

It's been great having you on the show, and we look forward to your next book.

Thanks, man.

Yeah, I would say my favorite sports movie is definitely not draft day, which I happen to, you know, be in for, you know, a split second.

And that's what your cousin, Nick Schwartz, had helped you prepare you for and sadly.

He helped me prepare for my big half second on screen.

He did.

Oh, man.

Well, listen, that's just the start.

I said, you know, I started in intramural sports.

That's like your intramurals.

You'll keep going

and take some acting

classes

and you'll be right there, buddy.

Exactly.

Life is long.

All right.

Nick Schwartz, or Nick Schwartz.

Seth Wickersham.

Thank you so much, buddy.

Great talking.

Thanks, man.

I'll talk to you.

You got it.

All right.

That's Seth Wickersham.

Check out his book, American Kings, a biography of the NFL quarterback.

You can also check out his other outstanding book, also a New York Times bestseller.

It's better to be feared than New England Patriots dynasty in the pursuit of greatness.

Pete, we're

back.

All right.

That was

fun.

That was great, man.

That was so much fun, you know, just getting to learn about some of these these quarterbacks.

You never you never know really what goes into it.

I like learning about the quarterbacks, but I also like talking to Seth and reading about him and how

diligent he is and meticulous he is when it comes to researching a story he's just investigating or for a book he's writing.

It's fascinating stuff.

And yeah, that was great.

Thank you to Tucker Lagerosky, who I think set that up.

That

was great.

This is Nightlight, folks.

If you missed the first hour of the show, you can always download or listen to the podcast at civicmedia.us.

where the rest of our interview is with Seth Wickersham, and we talked about, well, we introduced our question of the night, which is, what is your favorite Paul Newman movie?

It is Paul Newman's birthday, I think it was yesterday, actually, and we've got a long list of texts we need to get to.

Paul Newman is a beloved actor in a fine...

Uh, just a good person.

Let's not forget about Paul Newman, like, in addition to his on-screen talents, he created an entire line of salad dressing and all kinds of food items where the proceeds go to charity, and that is pretty cool.

Most of us would love to be in a position where we could do something like that, but we're not.

We have to go give blood or work in a soup kitchen.

This guy created an entire line.

Have you ever tasted any of Paul Newman's salad dressing?

His range.

Yeah, Newman's Ranch.

It's not bad.

It's good stuff.

Yeah.

Kind of risky there going with a ranch though.

It's like the most... Do you dip pizza in a ranch?

Yeah, I do.

Do

you tell me you did that?

I do.

Let's gutsy.

So let us know your favorite Paul Newman movie will read your text on the radio Coming up in just a few minutes after news sports and weather in about 15 minutes Frank Hermans will be here ladies and gentlemen the legendary Green Bay institution Frank Hermans We always love when Frank comes into the studio and this time he is bringing a banjo So we'll have a few laughs with Frank hear about his new show

And he's going to play us a country tune on the banjo, which I think is going to be an absolute blast.

Heather Heil will join me in hour number three or act three, as we like to call it here at Nightlight.

She will be here.

And Heather is the director of business development at the Green Bay Children's Museum.

Does an outstanding job there.

And we'll talk to Heather in studio at 720.

She is always an absolute blast.

I'm going to talk a little bit about a movie I saw.

I watched it this weekend.

I actually

I actually watched this film instead of watching the Rams Seahawks game I hadn't seen my wife like all weekend and she likes football enough, but I thought you know what let's Let's watch something and I realized watching a movie together is not like totally quality time because we're both sitting there in silence staring at the TV But it is still a shared experience and I know Conrad saw this film to the rip.

I did yes You liked it a lot.

You liked it more than I did.

I liked it

I liked it and I did you know when I did the beats Whatever day that was last week.

I I did say I recommended it, you know, and I thought it was a fun like Not fun.

It wasn't really funny fun cop kind of film between you know, obviously these two guys have been a flag and Matt Damon They've been in so many movies to get a

history

and I thought it was interesting because I didn't know what to expect when I heard you know when I heard about it and I saw the trailer and I thought it was like

Good Netflix movie

That there is a caveat when you say a good Netflix movie.

It's true Because I know what you mean.

They all I will say this the rip Netflix movies all have kind of a similar aesthetic The rip did not have that the rip had a pretty good like movie theater Look, maybe initially or originally it was going to go to theaters.

I don't know but It reviewed well got an 80% and rotten tomatoes

But it's interesting, I'm always fascinated by films with A-list movie stars.

Like, they're a popular duo, and they're popular individually.

Ben Affleck, Matt Damon.

64% of audiences liked it.

16% less than critics.

I found that interesting.

Like, what was it about that movie that you think audiences didn't find appealing?

I think we see these two guys in, you know, unusual roles where it's more comedy-based.

And I feel like it's a different kind of...

Movie for them, but I don't know Critics maybe cuz Netflix is gonna buy everything so they want to give them good reviews

maybe

Yeah,

yeah,

you know the reason I did like this film though is cuz There's not a lot of movies that keep me guessing the whole film

right

and it did keep me guessing a lot

Yeah, same here.

I have no problem with that I did find it a little convoluted at times, but I did I did like it Here's what drove me crazy.

I think Matt Damon's a really good actor.

Okay, I find of the two

I find him to be a more talented, natural, on-screen presence.

Great charisma that's natural.

He doesn't have to be doing a lot to get us to follow what he's doing.

Ben Affleck, I find him always to be acting.

And I notice it and it bothers me and with him and that cigarette in this movie.

Oh my god I wanted to slap it Okay, we know you smoke.

We know you're trying to look cool smoking You're this Boston suburban kid who wants to be a street kid.

I get it.

You're smoking and looking gritty.

I Just don't buy him

Yeah, I get that You know, there's some other films where they're together and I don't buy him as that person either like

right

that one What is that one movie they did for Apple TV again?

There was something about the instigators.

Yeah, I didn't buy him either in that movie

I just don't buy like here's the thing though.

I give him a tip of my hat for what it's worth I'm a guy hosting a radio show.

I'm not one of his peers However, he's a great director.

He's a really good director.

I like the town a lot Argo is excellent air was fantastic air was great Yeah, and he was okay in that you you know he wasn't as I don't know

I don't I'd say him

Wasn't the main themes, you know, he wasn't the main person.

He was playing film night, but

yeah Anyway, check out the rip.

I agree with Conrad.

It's a good Netflix movie and I just realized we both made it a pick in the beats You told me you did and I totally forgot about that.

All right when we come back We are gonna read your texts and I'm gonna tell you a story about a weather person that Got very lewd texts and it's her own fault.

This is Beach Wabba and Nightlight Frank Herman's coming up in 10 minutes on the Civic Media radio network

Music playing

Welcome back It does not feel like a Tuesday.

I will say that it feels like This feels like a Thursday Which is kind of a false sense of security because we got a long way to go till Thursday But we will do it in the way we do it here at nightlight

by talking about the things we love to talk about.

It was great to talk some sports earlier in the show with Seth Wickersham, a senior ESPN writer and author of American Kings.

And Frank Hermans will be along momentarily.

Love his outfit.

He's got the banjo.

We are going to have it.

I mean, it's just a blast anytime Frank comes by.

But I got a feeling this one's going to be even more special.

And Heather Heil in act three will be here too.

So.

Some fun in-studio guests.

Our question of the night is, what is your favorite Paul Newman movie?

Lots to choose from.

And we will read your text in just a moment.

Conn, I saw this.

What is it with?

I mean, do you know a guy like that in your group?

Anytime something comes up, if he can tie it to sex, he will.

Or make it a sexual innuendo somehow.

Yep,

definitely.

I know people like that too.

And sometimes I only...

Laugh at them if they think they're really funny because that to me is the comedy if someone actually thinks they're clever and says stuff like this like come on next but it's the person who really owns it and commits and This is great because there's a weather person in Oklahoma City News 9 Lacey Swope.

I saw this on my new favorite site is whiskey riff She was too vague with a request for viewers.

She wanted them to send in snow measurements

But she posted on Facebook and asked people to send us your measurements and locations so people immediately flooded her page with measurements of, as you can imagine, guys, mostly, although some women shined into, about their anatomy.

So most of the replies from men range from three to seven inches.

And one guy joked, it was too cold to get an accurate measurement.

I'm a good three inches in this weather.

Women even got in on a tube with posts like 36, 24, 36.

And even the serious replies seemed funny.

One woman said two inches, she got two inches.

It was a far cry from the four to eight she was promised.

And then this weather person, Lacey Swope, went with it.

She leaned in and shared a photo of herself holding a Vienna sausage and she joked.

They're the go-to snack that fuels her when winter weather hits.

Think she knew what she was doing?

Yeah.

I think so, too.

Very under... We should try to get Lacey on the show.

Bring some

of the measurements with her?

Yeah, would that be like, hi, Lacey.

We saw your recent post.

We saw your post and we know you're all into measurements, so... We didn't... We haven't gotten much snow this winter, but I will say this.

For whatever reason, every...

Time I either get up in the morning or go leave the studio to drive.

There is snow coming down and it's just enough to make the road crappy That's why I hate this winter.

So yeah, it's really brutal Our question the night as I mentioned is what is your favorite Paul Newman movie in honor of his birthday yesterday Mike?

All right.

I need help again with this town name muscata Every time like Mike will text like once every three months and I have to

learn how to say this town again.

And I know people are going to chime in and tell me, and that's fine.

Mike from Moscata says, The Hustler.

Great film.

Minnesota Fats, Jackie Gleason.

The Color of Money was the sequel with Tom Cruise that came out like 20 years after.

414 says, Cool Hand Luke.

Another vote for Cool Hand Luke.

Paul Newman says, I bet I can eat 50 eggs.

Great movie.

Excellent choice.

That's Ellen.

I'm sorry, that is not Ellen.

That was Ellen from Milwaukee.

And Ellen says, HUD, a movie I have not seen, a Paul Newman film I have not seen.

Thank you, Ellen, for the text.

Steve, that's Conrad's dad, checking in from Florida, says my favorite Paul Newman movies.

Movie is Cool Hand Lo- You think your dad was using voice text there?

He said my favorite Paul Newman movies is Cool Man Luck.

That sounds like a Saturday Night Live parody of the movie.

But Steve means Coolhand Luke, of course.

And he says where he set the record for eating 50 eggs.

Also the sting with Robert Redford.

That's mine, Steve.

But Coolhand Luke is right there in my top three or five, for sure.

John in Madison in the 608 says Coolhand Luke.

And Pamela from Lodi says, cat on a hot tin roof.

Nice, Pamela.

It's the first, second vote actually for Kat and Hot Tin Roof.

Bill from Walkinshaw says, best Paul Newman movie, HUD.

I have to see HUD.

I'm embarrassed I haven't seen HUD.

Brian from Green Bay says, I'm just glad a long, this isn't referenced to when Seth Wickershaw was here.

I'm just glad a long suffering team like the Patriots made it back to the Super Bowl.

Yeah, how about that?

It only took them about, you know.

How annoying

is that?

Five years.

Not even, right?

It's four, maybe four years.

I hope this is like a false sense of security for them.

I hope they

know Mike, Mike, Gabriel, V, V, V, V, V,

V, V, V, V, V, V,

V, V, V, V, V, V, V,

V, V, V, V,

V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V,

V, V, V,

V, V, V, V,

V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V

Awesome.

Bridget from the 818 says, cool hand Luke.

My first Paul Newman movie and my favorite, such a good actor, can't take your eyes off him.

Sounds like Bridget has a little crush on Paul Newman and she's not alone.

Tyler in the 608 says, shaking the bush boss, shaking the bush.