Thanksgiving (Hour 2)

Across Wisconsin on Civic Media, you're listening to Mornings with Pat Gritlow, powered by Up North News.

Now, from our Lake Wissota studio, here's the founding editor of Up North News.

Pat Gritlow.

Well, hey there, Wisconsin.

Good morning and happy Thanksgiving.

It is 6 0 6 on this Thursday, November 27th.

Another beautiful morning to have you here up north from Lake Wissota from wherever you're spending your Thanksgiving morning.

I got a question for you.

What time is dinner?

You know, these Thanksgiving meals, they can run all over the place for some.

It's midday.

Others get going a little later.

For others, maybe it's an early dinner.

Some places are very regimented.

Dinner's right at 12 or one or whatever.

And others, whenever we can get the turkey defrosted.

But here's the thing.

Whatever the usual time is for your family, there's a fair chance it's been disrupted by the fact that the Packers are playing the Lions at noon today.

That's right, just four days after hosting the Vikings, the Packers have another division game, this one on the road in Detroit.

You can, of course, catch the game on some Civic Media radio network stations with the pregame starting at 10 a.m.

Head over to CivicMedia.us to learn more.

This morning's show is a collection of favorite conversations from the past few weeks.

There's certainly been a lot to cover.

We'll start with a small business success story from a Chippewa Valley woman who is showing how immigrants can still make dreams come true in America.

We'll hear from Sean Fetaplace with Main Street Alliance about the ways small business is being harmed by some very bad ideas coming out of Washington DC so far this year.

Author Laura Bird has a theme of thankfulness in her most recent book recommendations.

We'll hear from a leading expert in artificial intelligence about how AI scams targeting small businesses need to be taken seriously, maybe fight fire with fire and embrace AI as part of your cyber defense.

First, a reminder that Up North News is a separate entity from civic media.

Both groups very proud to be serving Wisconsin with real information, great conversation, and topics that make us proud to call Wisconsin our home.

You can sign up for the newsletters we produce at Up North News by heading to upnorthnewswi.com.

So let's get into things now, starting with some good news.

A few weeks ago, we had the pleasure of talking to a woman, Carmen Solis, who has created a successful small business, MKS Cleaning Services, here in Altoona.

Carmen was asked to share her story with the Wisconsin Latino Chamber of Commerce, starting with her childhood in Mexico to her entrepreneurship here in the Chippewa Valley.

Her story is proof that when communities are welcoming places and provide good resources, we can create hometowns that are hardworking, diverse, and ever-growing.

Tell us about how you came to start the company.

I had a job that was a normal nine to five eight hour job and as a mom having to drop off my kids at school at daycare it was sometimes challenging because sometimes I would have to leave work to go to an appointment or for something for school and so at the time I worked at a cleaning job and I decided that I wanted to have my own schedule and that I wanted to work for myself and so at first I was a little scared but at the same time

I was prepared to start working for myself and that is something that I also enjoy doing is cleaning.

Why did you decide to become a member of the Latino Chamber of Commerce?

I didn't know enough to guide my business at first and I became aware of the chamber when they came out to Eau Claire last year.

So how this helped me was with meeting different people, knowing how to get my first client, either my first house or my first location, commercial location.

These have helped me overcome this fear of reaching out to people and also learning how to make

my own business cards or to make that outreach to potential clients.

The Chamber helps us have a firm purpose in what we're doing.

It gives us more security and confidence in what we're doing as a person, as a business, and it helps us be able to share our businesses with others and so not being afraid to talk to others, to network.

This would be really important.

At the Eau Claire Virtual Business Summit you will be sharing your business journey with aspiring entrepreneurs.

What are you most excited to share at the summit?

So I'm excited to let them know that as a business owner, if I was able to do it, they can do it too.

To also trust in God and to get closer to organizations like the Chamber of Commerce.

So it's important because they give us opportunities like this one to be able to connect to different organizations, communities in Wisconsin, and also to motivate those entrepreneurs that if they have a dream,

to not give up even when times are difficult.

They can still do it.

It doesn't matter what type of business you open.

It is always important to be open to any skills that you might have that you might be able to develop or continue developing and always discovering those talents that you have and always trusting in God that you have something special and that you keep continuing whether there is any challenge in the road.

There is always going to be success and to always be humble and have faith that things will turn out well.

Carmen, can you tell me more about your own personal history and how long you've lived in the Eau Claire area?

I have been living 26 years in the United States.

I currently have three kids, two daughters and one son and one granddaughter.

I have been living 15 years in Altoona and I really like this place because it is very calm and it is very nice.

I always feel the support from the community and although English isn't my first language, I still am able to connect with others in the community so I like to be able to participate.

in different kinds of events.

I do speak to my family in Michoacan.

It's about 26 years since I haven't seen my family, but my family is very proud.

My parents are always telling me to keep going.

And they always encourage, since I was little, I always had it.

I was always dreaming of doing more things.

I am so happy that you have taken time to talk to me about your history and your business.

So I do want to just give like a final message for those entrepreneurs that are wanting to start.

If they have any kind of doubt to just give that first step because you never know what that first step can lead you to.

And then if somebody asks me about my business or any advice on how to start a

business, I am always welcome to help them.

So I'm always open to questions.

And then I will also always refer them to the Chamber of Commerce, as they always give me advice on what to do and always give me those resources to be able to expand my business.

So we know how small businesses are the real economic engines of our main streets.

So why can't we get certain politicians to understand that and stop siding with the big boys who focus on crushing competition and holding down wages and treating workers like chattel?

Sean Fetaplace from Main Street Alliance talked to us during the government shutdown, which was centered on the end of premium supports that keep health insurance affordable.

Main Street Alliance is out there reminding lawmakers that a lot of small businesses can't afford to offer big group insurance policies, so to keep good workers

They need those workers to have good, affordable options in the marketplace.

People's rates for their affordable care coverage has gone up by so much.

And I think for your listeners, it's really important to understand it's bad for younger people, middle-income people, folks who are middle-aged.

It is absolutely catastrophic for people who are close to retirement age because, first off, due to the age, the ability of the marketplace to charge older adults more

But also the subsidy cutoff is at 400% of poverty.

And because of the changes, if you go $1 over that, you have no help at all.

And Governor Evers put out, and I actually had to double check it.

I even called the insurance commissioner here, because I knew it was bad.

But when the actual numbers came out last week, it showed that a married couple, 60, making 80K a year, so that's 40K each, which is below the national average at that age.

Their premiums will go up by $32,000 a year.

in Eau Claire, which is in your backyard basically there.

Clearly, people won't be able to afford that, so they're going to drop coverage.

At that age, they're going to experience age discrimination if they try to find a job that provides benefits.

And it's important to understand that if this happens, it's going to also impact employer-based health care, because fewer young, healthy people have insurance, and that'll make it more expensive for everyone.

So this is all about cost of living.

And the president and congressional Republicans, including Representative Van Orden, are just making it worse.

Yeah, Sean fed places our guests from Main Street Alliance.

So we moved from snap into, you know, the real crux of the shutdown, which is a fight over preventing these huge spikes in health insurance premiums.

And then of course, there's that other matter that is hitting all small businesses and all businesses.

And that would be tariffs.

And this is a big week for the legal challenge of what the Trump administration is doing in tariffs.

What's the role of Main Street Alliance in this?

Yeah, so we're not plaintiffs in the case because there were already a lot of folks early on in the process who joined, who were harmed by the terrorists.

But it's an issue we've been organizing around very heavily since, you know, so-called Liberation Day back in April.

In fact, we recently did an analysis and our member stories of the impact has actually been seen over 50 million times in the United States because

It's so deep.

And we actually have, we're working very closely with Senate Democrats, including Senator Ed Markey, who's the ranking member.

So he's the head Democrat on the Senate Small Business Committee.

There's a strong case to be made that what the president has done has been illegal.

But continuing to make the political case as well, just last week, there were three separate bills that were passed by the Senate on a bipartisan basis to overturn the tariffs, including, you know, when you have senators like Elizabeth Warren and Rand Paul.

agreeing on something sure says something about the topic and so I really worry about the as we enter the holiday season what this is going to do for costs and I think if we don't get resolution I mean I what I've heard what I understand from the Supreme Court case is that they do expect an expedited ruling so we should hopefully know one way or the other by the end of the year but clearly this president is just really abusing his power and this is just one other example of him doing so.

We're talking to Sean Fetaplace from Main Street Alliance and I feel like part of your group's messaging as well hasn't just been in court, but to actually say to these members of Congress, hey, you actually can play a role in lessening the pain that Americans and small businesses are feeling.

Absolutely.

And I do think this recent example of the Argentina beef issue is really beginning to break through because there are farmers in Western Wisconsin who have been paying, either they aren't able to sell their crops or it's been tariffed and it's increasing their fixed costs.

And then there's this talk about doing a bailout.

Where's that money coming from?

It's from the money that was tariffed or the reduced impact in the first place.

So it's just absolutely ridiculous.

And I'll just say this, tariffs have a role with national security reasons.

China has been a bad actor in many different ways, including intellectual property theft.

And so like a targeted purposeful trade policy is really important.

This is not that.

This is just a bull in a China shop just absolutely destroying everything.

And so I think that ultimately it is up to people like Representative Van Orden, Representative...

Tom Tiffany to stand up and I'll be honest with you.

I think they don't agree with these tariffs.

I think that they're just too scared to speak out because they think that they're going to experience political consequences for doing so.

And in the case of Derek Van Oranen, I'll just point out he was outraced by $200,000 by Becker Cook in the most recent violings.

And if you look at why he outraced her in total, it's because he got support from Speaker Mike Johnson to be able to make up the difference.

And so the question is,

Who is Derek Van Orden really working for?

Is he working for the Farmers in Western Wisconsin?

Or is he working for Speaker Johnson?

Sean Fett at Place, this was great to learn more.

You want to give folks the website?

Yeah.

If you want to find out more and join us, go to MainStreetAlliance.org.

MainStreetAlliance.org for this, for these issues and so many other issues that your group is following.

And in there, you will see stories from small business owners, just regular folks all over the state.

All over the country.

This is where the real work is happening on Main Street, and therefore the real lobbying work that needs to keep taking place for officials in Madison and Washington.

Sean, thank you so much.

It's always good to catch up with you.

All right.

Thank you, and have a good

day.

I'm Pac Rightlow.

This is the Civic Media Radio Network.

We are talking to Ingrid Cunninger from the Greater Wisconsin Agency on Aging Resources and the Senior Medicare Patrol.

And I'm gonna sound like such a weirdo here.

Ask 100 other people, what was the new story that most shocked them this year?

And they'll tell you a lot of the usual suspects.

But for me, it was this story that I saw a few months back.

The amount of senior citizen medical debt is soaring.

And that doesn't make sense at first blush because you think, well, wait, Medicare.

I paid my taxes all my life.

I've got Medicare.

It's going to cover things.

I'm going to get a Part D drug plan, and that's going to cover most of the things.

How can this be?

And you read deeper into the article.

And it's all kinds of folks on these Medicare Advantage plans who, between the deductibles and the copay, are deciding to go without because of previous denials of care.

they're suddenly racking up all this Medicare or medical debt that is extremely shocking to me to see that happen to the senior citizens of the United States.

So to me, it was just a very cautionary tale, not only to pay attention to what the private health insurance companies are saying, but also I would assume the potential for scammers and others who want to take advantage of people in the system as well.

And as the fraud and abuse programs manager, that's something I'm sure you're watching closer than anybody else.

Absolutely.

The amount of Medicare related fraud, errors, and abuse is astounding.

With the senior Medicare Patrol, we focus primarily on educating Medicare beneficiaries, as well as their advocates about how they can protect themselves from Medicare related fraud and scams, as well as how they can detect and report that.

And the estimate right now is between 60 and $100 billion per year is just frotted.

the Medicare system.

So to answer your question, absolutely, there are a lot of bad actors out there looking to take advantage not only of older adults, but of a program that older adults really rely on to provide their health insurance coverage.

How did the scammers tend to do this?

Is it like a phone thing where they're calling people and making some kind of a hard sell on them?

Yeah, primarily the scammers do operate via telephone and there's a couple of different ways that they do that.

The first thing is that they're looking for people's Medicare numbers.

So they may call and say that they're calling on behalf of Medicare and they just want to make sure that you've received your new Medicare card.

Well, if you didn't receive a new Medicare card recently, you might be caught off guard and think,

I didn't know I needed one.

And then that person on the phone is going to be so happy that they called you today because they're going to be able to take care of that.

They just need to, here comes the catch, verify that information and they'll go ahead and get that new Medicare card issued.

Well, here's the thing.

There's not a new Medicare card.

And Medicare is not calling people.

That's something for people to remember, not a new Medicare card.

Medicare is not going to call you.

So what happens then is that the people that have gotten that Medicare number share it with other Medicare suppliers or equipment suppliers.

anyone who's willing to make suspicious or fraudulent claims to Medicare on your behalf.

So then what happens is that you receive your Medicare summary notice and you notice that Medicare has paid thousands of dollars for orthotic braces.

or catheter supplies, a bunch of things that you didn't receive were not ordered by your healthcare provider, and now Medicare has made payment for.

And that's where the billions and billions of dollars rack up.

We are talking to Ingrid Cunninger from the Senior Medicare Patrol, Senior Medicare Patrol, smpwi.org is the website.

And you've got some articles in there about how this is really the time to double check your plan, even if you're happy with it, so that you can compare, you know, apples to apples.

So between that website, smpwi.org for Senior Medicare Patrol, Wisconsin.org and Medicare.gov, how important is it to be proactive

rather than wait for somebody to ring your phone.

It's very important to be proactive.

And as you mentioned earlier, this is right now we are in Medicare's open enrollment period.

So every year between October 15th and December 7th, Medicare beneficiaries have the opportunity to, as you said, review their plans for this year, see what changes their plan might have.

in the works for next year and then look at other options.

That's a great benefit that people have the opportunity right now to review plans and see if there might be something out there that is

more beneficial to you.

Maybe there's additional benefits.

Maybe the cost is different.

Maybe your health situation has changed and you need more coverage or less coverage.

And so now is a great time to do that.

And I would really encourage people to, I know I said it goes until December 7th, but don't wait until December 7th, especially if you're looking to connect with some of the unbiased resources that might be available in your community to kind of help you sift through all those things.

They get really busy.

right now with helping other people so please don't wait and if you do get a phone call and someone is starting to

pressure you about making a decision right now or offering extra benefits.

If you sign up today on the phone, take a deep breath, hang up the phone, and find someone who can help you not feel pressured into making those decisions.

Because that's a big decision to make.

And you want to make sure that you've done your research, asked the questions that you wanted to ask, and feel confident not pressured in the choice that you make for your health care coverage for next year.

Thank you to Ingrid Cunningham for joining us.

Pat, what do we got going on tomorrow?

Tomorrow, we'll have some fresh conversations to share with you.

Dr. Kristen Lierly will be along.

And of course, our Week in Review panel with Mark Jacob, a former editor at the Chicago Tribune, former U.S.

Attorney Jim Santel, and Chicago radio host Joan Esposito.

Coming up yet this morning, how you can make a difference by running for office.

It doesn't have to be something big and splashy like Congress or even a seat in the legislature.

Some of the biggest impacts come from the smallest, most local levels of government like your city council or your county board.

We'll also hear from a leading expert in artificial intelligence about how AI scams, targeting small businesses, need to be taken seriously.

Maybe fight fire with fire and embrace AI as a part of your cyber defense.

And Dr. Kelly Snooks will talk about the uptick in measles cases in children this year.

From Lake Wissota, I'm Pat Crite, while you're listening to the Civic Media Radio Network.

Hey, you don't need me to tell you that we are approaching the holiday season, and it's all about the gratitude, the giving, the giving back, the reflection.

And it's not just about your life.

There's ways that we can help that in the material that's on your reading table.

And for that, we have one of our regular visits with our friend and author, Laura Ann Bird.

Laura, nice to see you.

Thank you for being here today.

Oh, let me get your mic potted up there.

Let's try that again.

Happy Thanksgiving week.

Happy Thanksgiving to you as well.

My goodness, I can't believe we're coming up on that time already.

But like I said, there's a lot we talk about throughout the course of the year.

There's drama and there's conflict and everything else.

And it's nice just to take a little time and focus more on the things we're thankful for in life.

Absolutely.

I love Thanksgiving for that reason.

I think it's a nice time to examine

what we're really grateful for.

And I know that everyone has different things that they appreciate, of course, but I wanted to come up with a fun and creative list to get us thinking outside the box about what brings joy, texture, and meaning to our lives.

And of course, I have a book recommendation for each because...

That's why you invite me here.

That's right.

And you do such a great job of it.

Thanks.

And again, so Laura's going to go through quite a few books.

We'll put the titles and authors in our show notes over at civicmedia.us as well.

So let's get into eight different things.

We can be thankful for this holiday season.

You want to start with friendship?

Yes.

Well,

We're talking best friendship.

Best friends.

We're talking best friends here.

And so I hope everybody has a best friend out there that they can be grateful for.

The first book I have is called Maggie or A Man and a Woman Walk into a Bar by Katie Yee.

It's her debut novel.

I know it's a very long and whimsical title, which is kind of funny because the book is neither of those things.

But our unnamed narrator here is a young woman with two little kids, and she's just been told by her husband that he's leaving her for a woman named Maggie.

At the same time, our unnamed narrator finds out that she has breast cancer and she has to begin the hard, hard work of getting healthy and repairing her imploded life.

So I know it sounds heavy, but I promise that there is immense beauty, humor, and grace in this novel.

And the reason I say that is because the author gives us Darlene, who is the best friend of our unnamed narrator.

And Darlene by far is my favorite character of the book.

She's funny and smart.

And she saves the day again and again, accompanying the narrator to all of her doctor's appointments, making sure she's eating and drinking enough water and getting outside.

And she alone gets her through this really dark time simply by being present.

So I'd like to think that we all have a

friend like Darlene in our lives, you know, that one person who will literally do anything for you.

Yeah, I mean look and look a lot of that is not somebody doesn't set out trying to be the hero of somebody else's life They just think they're doing the right thing for that person.

Maybe sometimes underestimating how heroic they're actually being absolutely you nailed it all right to What else are we thankful for?

I'm

thankful for resilience and the book I have here is called a marriage at sea a true story of love obsession and shipwrecked by Sophie Elmhurst So this is the true story of Marilyn and Maurice

a couple from the UK.

They got married back in 1963, despite being a really odd pair.

Marilyn was ambitious and charismatic, and Maurice was sort of obsessive and awkward.

But they both loved the idea of escaping.

So they decided to quit their jobs, sell their house, build a boat, and sail away together, which is what they did in 1972.

For nearly a year, things went swimmingly.

pun intended, on their voyage through the Atlantic and then the Pacific until a whale literally knocked a hole in their boat and it sank.

They climbed onto this tiny rubber raft starving and exhausted and they began their fight to survive in the wild ocean with

very little hope of rescue.

So they were alone together for weeks and then months.

I don't want to tell you how long because I don't want to give away any spoilers.

But they had to figure out how to stay alive and also get along in the face of such unthinkable stress.

So this book is so great.

It's both an adventure and a rather gutting love story.

But I think at its core, it's a testament to our human resilience when everything seems utterly doomed.

So again a marriage at sea by Sophie Elmhurst for those who are thankful for resilience.

Yeah, right.

What's next?

I'm thankful for advances in health care

And so the book I have today is Everything is Tuberculosis, The History and Persistence of Our Deadliest Infection by John Green.

If you recognize John Green's name, that's because he wrote the wildly successful novel The Fault in Our Stars, which was made into a movie.

But here he has dedicated an entire nonfiction book to tuberculosis, also known, of course, as TB.

It is so good and enlightening.

If you've ever read any Victorian fiction before, Pat, you know there are always characters like wasting away from TB.

They're usually beautiful young women coughing up blood into their white handkerchiefs.

And that's certainly one portrait of TB.

But according to John Green, there is so much more to know and understand about this disease that has killed 150 million people since the 1950s alone.

So he serves on the board of directors for a global nonprofit called Partners in Health.

So he's had this really up close look at how the disease is managed today and also how it unfortunately persists in certain parts of the world.

So this book is barely 200 pages.

It is fascinating.

And it will have you asking some really big questions about what we as a society value when it comes to public health, vaccines, and the cost of drugs.

At the very least, it will have you feeling exceedingly grateful for advances and research in health care when it comes to TB.

and other curable diseases.

Well, good.

We spoke earlier in the program about being thankful for advances in things like clean air.

This is the anniversary of a day when 400 people died in New York City in 1966, just from the smog alone, and that we should be thankful for advances in clean air, clean water, and of course, and health care as well.

So everything is tuberculosis by John Green.

All right.

What else are we thankful for?

We're going to talk about birds.

I'm so thankful for birds.

I mean, who isn't grateful for

wildlife.

So the book I have is Birds of the Great Lakes, How They Look and Sound, Where to Find Them and How to Protect Them by Dexter Patterson.

I just want to tell you that Dexter Patterson is hot right now.

He is the co-founder of Wisconsin's BIPOC Birding Club, which is dedicated to making birding more accessible and inclusive for people of color.

He has quite a following.

So this is his book.

It is a fun and accessible guide that will help you identify more than 100 commonly seen birds in our Great Lakes region.

He also weaves in best practices and research around habitat sustainability and conservation so that we can all work together to make sure our books, our birds will be around for years to come.

I also want to throw out that this is great for new birders and also experienced birders.

And I know listeners can't see it right now, but it's this tiny, sleek little book, so it fits right in your pocket for all your outdoor adventures.

or a stocking or a little gift bag.

It's that perfect little stocking stuff for size.

And actually, I'm always on the outlook for some new thing to read to help me identify the birds that fly around Lake Wissota.

So that's a great example.

Dexter Patterson.

Yep.

By

Dexter Patterson.

What else are we thankful for?

I'm thankful for the dictionary.

And this book is by Stefan Fatsis, and it's called Unabridged, The Thrill of and Threat to the Modern Dictionary.

This book is so smart and

and it's perfect for anyone who appreciates words in general, and also how new words are brought in to mainstream consciousness, words like...

selfie and doom scrolling.

So first, the author tells the little known history of how brothers George and Charles Merriam acquired Noah Webster's original American dictionary, and they reshaped the business of language forever.

So the author embedded as a lexicographer in training at Merriam Webster, that of course means a person who compiles dictionaries.

And from that experience, he tells us everything he learned.

Things like how to write a good definition, and also how words are weaponized.

Words, of course, like woke and DEI.

And he also looks at how AI and Google are a growing threat to our compendium of words.

So this is a

great, fun book.

And by the way, a shout out to the people who actually have to come up with dictionary definitions, because what do we normally do?

rattle-off synonyms.

It's like, well, that doesn't necessarily help.

So, you know, those are one of those underappreciated things, the lexicographer.

The lexicographer.

All right.

Laura and Bert author is with us with some recommendations on books dealing with gratitude.

What else are we grateful for here?

I am grateful for a sense of acceptance and belonging.

And I know not everybody has that.

But this book is called So Many Stars, An Oral History of Trans, Non-Binary, Gender Queer, and Two-Spirit People of Color.

by Carol D. Robertis.

So the author interviewed 20 trans, non-binary, and queer elders of color, including artists, activists, and ordinary citizens, to find out how they live authentically and create safe and nurturing spaces for themselves and for their communities.

So this book comes from hundreds of hours of these interviews, and it offers really profound snapshots of

raising kids, coming out, making art, and even weathering the AIDS crisis.

So the stories in this book feel really important and urgent to me, and I think that they're ultimately a celebration of finding belonging and acceptance against the odds.

Very nice, okay.

Here's one of my, I wasn't expecting this one to be on your list of things you're thankful for, Laura.

Carbon.

The book is

called Carbon, The Book of Life by Paul Hocken.

Okay, so work with me here.

So as I've learned, carbon is the only element that animates the entirety of our living world.

So it makes up just a tiny fraction of the Earth's composition, but our planet would be literally lifeless without it.

At the same time, of course, carbon is maligned as the driver of climate change.

But Paul Hawkins examines carbon in this really creative, refreshing way.

Specifically, he looks at the flow of life through the lens of carbon and how it shapes plants, animals, insects, fungi, food, and farms.

And he does it all in just 200 pages.

I think he is a marvelous writer and he weaves in

not just poetic language, but also like this intellectual rigor.

And I love it when anyone can write about science in a way that's engaging and digestible for non-science people such as myself.

Nice.

All right.

I feel like my Christmas wish list is growing here.

Last but not least.

I got one more.

There you go.

Well, we're thankful for democracy.

Democracy.

And we don't want to see it vanish, right?

So I think everyone needs to read this book.

How Books Can Save Democracy by Michael Fisher.

So it's teeny tiny, it's barely 80 pages, but it's written by a humanities professor.

So he has like major street cred here.

So this book is a great way to understand the importance of literature and how it bolsters our democracy.

So Michael Fisher, the author, believes that in a world consumed by polarization and hatred, it's easy for reading to fall to the wayside, which is actually one of the reasons I love being on the show, Pat, is you've given me this wonderful platform to talk about books and reading and to get people excited about cracking open new titles.

So he believes that by reading, writing about, and discussing literature with diverse perspectives, we can embrace our differences rather than fear them.

And of course, this leads to the empathy and collaborative spirit needed to sustain a democratic society.

I do think it's kind of disappointing he doesn't call out certain leaders by name, but he does reference a lot of authors throughout history and how they've helped diagnose societal and democratic challenges.

Authors like Charles Dickens, Zady Smith, Alexis de Tocqueville and Bishop Desmond Tutu.

So you can plow through this tiny little book in one sitting and it will give you so much to think about when you are

finished with it.

Well, and I'm really thankful for this because my daughters are always asking, you know, for Christmas gift ideas and now I have several.

Oh, we've got a bunch.

All right, Laura and burden and lest you think we're going to wait too long.

Laura is going to be back with us real soon to talk about a book that helped us get through the winter blues for that season as well.

Happy Thanksgiving, Laura.

Thank you so much.

Thanks.

All right.

We'll wrap things up here.

Final news and notes from Lake Wissota right after this on the Civic Media Radio Network.

We're going to talk about smuggling cows across the border in a sec, as well as a review of Wisconsin communities that are not located in the county of the same name.

I did want to share, again, this is the Western Wisconsin Congressman and parts of Central Wisconsin, Derek Van Orden.

He, like all the other Wisconsin Republicans, flip-flopped on the Epstein files after months and months of helping essentially covered up, kind of wishing it would go away.

Once Donald Trump saw that public momentum was not gonna let that happen they want answers to these questions and Derek van Orden and all the others flip-flop Derek van Orden was on CNN

and listen to the anchor trying to ask him, what are your thoughts on President Trump and the delay on this and what would you tell him?

And Derek Van Orden will have none of it.

He's so trying to change the subject to a Democratic delegate member of Congress from the Virgin Islands.

He was just infatuated with this one particular woman and tries to keep talking over the anchor, you know, the Ron Johnson School of don't answer the question, just make the point you want to make.

Here's Congressman Van Orden doing that.

I was a Democrat member of Congress on the oversight committee responsible for the investigation into Jeffrey Epstein, live texting with Jeffrey Epstein during the hearing.

Congressman Ms.

Plaskett.

Do we have a limited amount of time because you're going to interview her next?

Is that right?

Is she going to be on your show and explain herself?

We'd be more than happy to have her on Congressman.

I believe that Mrs. Plaskett has refuted those characterizations.

However, that doesn't answer the question of what questions you

might have for President Trump based on these emails.

Hold

on a second.

Congressman,

I asked you about President Trump's relationship with Jeffrey Epstein.

You started

talking about Mrs. Plaskett.

I want to get your thoughts

on President

Trump and what you might ask

him

based on this information that's come out.

I get it.

So you're just not going to get away with this.

So there you go.

That's that's that's what Derek Van Ord has been doing in this interview and in others and other Republicans as well.

But he does such a remarkable job of looking foolish this way that I thought it was worth sharing with you.

is when you go, well, why hasn't there been a town hall scheduled by Derek Van Orden and many other Republican members of Congress?

Because they don't want those direct questions, but we will keep trying and so should you.

Up next, a little chat between me and Parker last week on the ways people in high places in Washington must think we're all just dumb and they can make up anything they want, even about smuggling cows over the border.

You know, when we talk about caravans, when we hear Trump and others talk about caravans coming from Mexico, the caravans are coming from Central America, the caravans are coming to the border.

Did you know that in those caravans are cows?

Because that's what Donald Trump's Treasury Secretary Scott Besson said in an interview over the weekend.

Let's give a listen.

The beef market is a very specialized market.

It goes in long cycles.

And this is the perfect storm.

Again, something we inherited.

And there's also, because of the mass immigration, a disease that had been, we'd been rid of in North America, made its way up through South America.

As these migrants, they have brought some of their cattle with them.

Parker, did you know that along with as they're scaling the wall that the cows are able to jump over the wall or they're going through the tunnel?

I mean, sometimes you might think am I hearing something and you're hearing your never occur to you that it might be coming from underground.

I'm envisioning the mighty Python and the Holy Grail when they're

charging the castle and throwing cows and chickens and geese south over

the wall.

Oh, a money Python reference out of you.

That's fabulous.

So today's lesson in politics is don't answer the questions.

And if you have to make stuff up about bulls coming over the border, that's why we don't do this for three straight hours.

You'd give us a headache.

So we point out the almost literal bull crap and move on to other matters.

like Wisconsin Geography, as we did with reporter James Kelly, who is still learning his way around Wisconsin.

So Tony writes in on YouTube, and he knows that I've occasionally, you mentioned that Washburn is not in Washburn County.

And Wisconsin has a lot of those.

And Tony very quickly put together a list.

The town of Washburn is not in Washburn County.

It's in Bayfield County.

The town of Adams.

is not in Adams County.

It's in Jackson County.

The town of Jackson is not in Jackson County.

It's in Washington County.

The town of Grant is not in Grant County.

There's a town of Grant in Portage County and in Dunn County.

There's the town of Douglas.

That's not in Douglas County.

That's located in Marquette County.

Let's see.

There's the town of Polk, which is not in Polk County.

It's in Washington County.

The town of Lincoln, not in Lincoln County.

Believe it or not, it's located in Trumplow County.

And finally, there's the town of Monroe, not in Monroe County.

It's in Green County.

Now, you know, you

could live your whole life here and not really.

get that whole geographical sense.

You think you're talking about one place, you're actually talking about another place.

It's perfectly non-confusing.

Perfectly, yes.

I mean, we always, when people move here to cover news or anything else, we talk about the pronunciation conundrum that comes up with some place names.

But this is another one of them, thinking that, oh, well, if I'm going to, you know, Washburn, I'm clearly going to Washburn County.

No, you're not.

I listened to a lot of local news reports when I first moved here trying to make sure I get all the pronunciations right because there's nothing worse than showing up to,

you

know, an event out in public and someone's like, oh, by the way, you mispronounced the name of this town you cover.

Everybody

knows you're

now from here now

or or or Governor Tony Evers or something like that Yeah, it's it's it's it's tough to be an instant local But we're working on it and with James you can follow what he's doing for us in the Chippewa Valley at 93 5 the tap.

That's WCFW HD 2 in the Chippewa Valley or on the civic media app

And to see some of the current headlines and weather and upcoming local sports, head over to the station's website, thetap.fm, that's thetap.fm, or just go to civicmedia.us, click through the stations.

And when you click on the station, it'll take you right there to the station homepage where you see some of the news that James Kelly is putting together.

And we thank James Kelly for being a very good sport.

Still to come, candidate for Congress, Fred Clark, and from the group Patriotic Millionaires, Chuck Collins.

On these mornings, powered by UpNorth News, I'm Pat Crichtlow, and this is the Civic Media Radio Network.

Across Wisconsin on Civic Media, you're listening to Mornings with Pat Gritlow, powered by Up North News.

Now, from our Lake Wissota studio, here's the founding editor of Up North News, Pat Gritlow.

Hey, good morning.

It's 706.

Nice to have you back here up north on this Thanksgiving morning as we get a head start on the leftovers, the good kind, some of our best conversations over the past few weeks.

But first, don't forget later this morning, Packers in Detroit.

Pregame starts at 10 a.m.

on some of these civic media stations.

Coming up this hour, we're getting close to the time when people make a decision to run for office, maybe county board or city council.

Think about it, you're gonna talk politics over turkey and stuffing anyway.

Maybe you'll get fired up enough to step up and make a difference.

And we've got just the guy to talk to.

Glendale Mayor Brian Kennedy chairs a national group that helps people run for local office.

But first, let's get to know a candidate for Congress.

With Tom Tiffany running for governor, there will be a need for a new representative up north in the 7th Congressional District.

A former legislator, Fred Clark, has tossed his hat in the ring on the Democratic side.

which might sound like a long shot, but remember Dave Obi represented the area for 40 years.

And while Republicans have run strong up here for the past 15, the Republican brand is a little less Apple pie these days in a little more dumpster fire.

Maybe voters will put the GOP on the sidelines for a little bit.

If you want to know about the North Woods, you got to talk to a guy that really knows woods and nobody knows the woods like Fred Clark.

He is a senior forester.

He has served as a senior forester.

with the Department of Natural Resources as an ecologist with the Nature Conservancy.

He's been a consulting forester.

He has served on the Wisconsin Council on Forestry, the Wisconsin Council on Tourism, briefly on the State Natural Resources Board.

He knows a thing or two about how to make sure that the Northwoods is good for business, is good for tourism, and is good to our resources.

And maybe it's time that the Northwoods is good for representation in Congress as well.

So Fred Clark.

joins us now to tell us more about what's happening in the 7th.

Fred, good morning.

How are you?

Morning, Pat.

Really good to see you.

It's a wonderful morning here in the Fall and North Woods.

It really is.

And so, I mean, nobody understands the task ahead like you, and I'm sure that other people have expressed interest in this as well.

But where did you ultimately come down on your own decision about what to do in the 7th District?

Yeah, well, thanks for asking, you know, I spent a good part of this summer with some friends just traveling the 7th congressional district and Most of your listeners know it's a huge district.

This is about a third of Wisconsin our entire north woods parts of 26 counties and we just wanted to after talking among ourselves and following all of the drama coming out of Washington we just decided to get on the road and try to

put a pulse on what people were thinking about and talking about.

We went to Marshfield and to Warsaw and Merrill and Tomahawk and Rhinelander and Hayward and Spooner and Webster and Hudson had a lot of conversations with a lot of people to figure out.

what concerns are sort of rising to the top for the communities around northern Wisconsin, and what people are looking for out of representation.

And this is at a time when Congressman Tom Tiffany was basically missing in action.

He was not holding public events, some of these really momentous decisions like the...

big billionaires bill that came out of Washington that he voted for, he simply wasn't willing to stand up and account for himself in public.

And we learned a lot from those trips and it really helped me after a lot of thought make a decision that I think the time is right to stand up and make the case for a new representation in Congress in Northern Wisconsin.

So you're in.

I'm in.

The Canada Sea starts today.

All right.

You've done some of the prep work already.

There's a website up, clark4wi.com, again, clarkforwi.com, where people are going to learn more about you and more about the issues.

I gave a bit of an introduction that stressed your forestry roots, but you did serve a number of years in the legislature, and so tell us a bit more about

You know, your time there and the priorities that you brought to Madison that you'd now like to bring to Washington.

Sure.

Thanks for asking.

You know, for many years, I lived in Baraboo at Tallinn and Salk County, north of Madison.

From there, I ran a forestry consulting and contracting business.

In fact, one of my very first jobs, my first year in business, was marking timber up here for the Shawamigan-Nicolay National Forest.

But in that work, I just became more and more involved in conservation, as well as community leadership.

In 2008, I took a long shot and ran for the state assembly seat that includes communities of Baraboo and Portage and Montello, perfect farm and forest country.

I'd never had a political background before, but.

Again, it was an opportunity for me to learn more and provide service to an important community that really meant a lot to me.

I won a Republican health seat.

I did that with a lot of crossover voters from Republicans and Democrats who knew that it was time for a change and that they could trust me to help represent their values and their interests, even if we didn't agree on every issue.

And I learned a tremendous amount from that effort, the most important one being if you're elected as a representative, it's your job to represent everybody.

It doesn't matter how they voted.

It doesn't matter if they agree with you on everything, but there are lots of issues at home that we all have to work together on if we're going to be successful.

And I took that to heart, and I'll take it to heart for Northern Wisconsin.

It certainly seems to be a message that would resonate right now in what is now the ninth hour of a shutdown of the federal government brought about by an unwillingness by the majority party to negotiate, even though they need democratic votes to get anything done.

So I'm sure with this shutdown, people would be asking, what would you do differently?

What traits would you bring that might make it less likely that we see government shutdowns?

Yeah, you know the choice of Democrats right now is a very tough one But I don't fault them for standing up when you look at that just the brutal impact on middle-class people across this country from a single policy of removing the Subsidies for the Affordable Care Act that's going to affect health care for millions of people This is really their only point of leverage right now, but fundamentally

We've got to re-look at how we budget and run the federal government.

There is simply no reason that we should be going through this shutdown drama every four years when the parties can't agree on the most basic responsibility, which is how to run our governments.

So I think we need to re-look at the principles and procedures for federal budgeting.

And that's the most basic thing we should be expecting from our Congress.

We expect that from our state legislature.

And for the most part, we get it.

Do the basics of funding then extend to putting a priority on things like health care rather than billionaire tax breaks?

I guess what I'm saying is, you know, right now, the Democrats in Congress are saying

Look, negotiate with us if you need our votes, because we think you've gone too far in these health care cuts.

And if you want our votes, they've got to be restored or paired back.

And Republicans are even refusing to negotiate.

I don't think I have to go very hard to find out whether you think Congress should be taking more of its energy on providing for people's health care than providing for tax cuts for the rich.

It's incredible.

Healthcare wasn't perfect a year ago.

We still had a long way to go to provide the opportunity for basic healthcare for everyone, regardless of income.

But the big, beautiful bill, as the president liked to call it, has a massive across-the-board impact on both the Medicaid cuts that are going to affect healthcare for the most...

the people who need it the most, as well as the Affordable Care Act subsidy removals, which is going to increase healthcare premiums by up to 75% or more for many people that are on the exchanges and the Affordable Care Act.

That's the most massive transfer of wealth to billionaires that's ever occurred in the history of our federal government and our federal budgets.

No, it's not acceptable.

And no, Democrats should, no one should be voting to support a budget that

that fails Americans so badly and broadly.

We're talking to Fred Clark, former state assembly rep, who is now the Democratic candidate for Congress in the seventh congressional district all across the northern third of Wisconsin here.

And let's get to the district itself and the things that

Proper representation can do for it.

You've got an entire platform based on rebuilding the rural economy around you know our lakes and our forests and our towns and we know that Tom Tiffany as a congressman and prior to that in the state legislature had the the primary goal of getting mines

operating in Wisconsin and expanding development that way.

Okay, that's one mindset is mining and development.

Where's yours in terms of making sure that the rural economy across Northern Wisconsin can be vibrant during your time in office?

Yeah, thanks, Pat.

So let's just look at what we have here in the north.

The forest, the lakes, the rivers, the

farms that make up this kind of piece of our world.

You know, this is iconic Wisconsin, when the Department of Tourism wants to sell Wisconsin to other state visitors, the North Woods is one of the major places that they go.

If we want to maintain that, which also means maintaining the quality of life and the clean water and the clean air and the outdoor spaces that make this place what it is, we have to invest in that.

from an economic development standpoint, we can chase big mines, big holes in the ground.

We can chase massive international businesses that we think are going to plop down big data centers and create jobs.

But I think time after time and a lot of effort and experience has shown that you get a better bank for your buck by investing in local communities.

local businesses, the sort of small and medium-sized businesses and the small farms and the forestry enterprises that are the bulk of employment and economic activity in northern Wisconsin, that's where we need to be making our investments.

And as a policymaker, that's where I would absolutely reinvest and increase our investment to make sure that the businesses that are already here are able to thrive.

What about in terms of the

trade war that Donald Trump has imposed on this country and on this economy, ostensibly, to rebuild or help out American manufacturing.

To what degree do you feel like that is the right track or wrong track?

Oh, if you talk to farmers today, throughout the Midwest, but including in Wisconsin, the trade war and this sort of ever-changing tariff war that, especially with China right now,

is gonna be a punch in the gut for farm producers.

If you're growing soybeans right now, you may have had a bumper crop this year and nowhere to go with it because China stopped buying American soybeans this year for the first time in a long time.

And there simply are not markets for what we're producing today as we get near harvest time.

And farmers have paid

their own dollars in these checkoff funds for decades that have gone into marketing programs to help establish these markets.

They're being wiped away by a tweet from our president who decides with almost no evidence that we're going to just start these tariff wars.

It's hugely disruptive.

We're all going to be paying for it.

That's Fred

Clark.

Up next, small businesses need AI to fight off hacks being powered by AI.

I'm Pat Crichtlow.

This is the Civic Media Radio Network.

Welcome back to some of our favorite conversations powered by UpNorth News.

I'm Pat Crichtlow.

From a business standpoint the thing that jumped out at me was the way that a lot of what's letting bad individuals in and work on things like you know fishing emails and things are when

companies have what are called forgotten sub-domains that were mistakenly left in their systems and that other actors can take advantage of.

So it sounds like you're really specializing in ways that businesses are unwittingly providing avenues for bad actors to commit to the business or to their customers.

Do I understand that correctly?

Yeah, that's right.

I think most of your listeners would probably recognize the fact that there is an awful lot of phishing and fraud and impersonation going on online, whether that's from their banking partners, the healthcare providers.

And this is actually happening all around the world.

And that's mainly driven by a couple of things.

And one of them is that organizations have really hard time getting their hands around all of this infrastructure that they now have out on the internet that's communicating with their customers with their supply.

and bad actors are looking for all kinds of weaknesses that they can use to impersonate that organization, abuse that trust and relationship that they developed with their customers and the general public, and use that for some sort of nefarious activity.

The reason that that's important, well, one of many, though, is that it doesn't take much for trust

to be violated if you're a business, a small business, big business, whatever the case, that you may have thought that you had nothing to do with a phishing campaign that uses your company's name, but your company's name can get besmirched in a hurry nowadays.

In most surveys that are conducted, roughly 75% of customers will cut ties with a brand after a major cyber incident.

And many of those customers will actually blame the company, not the attackers, ironically enough, for not keeping the house in order or basically not having the securities that are required to prevent these types of attacks from being effective.

In some cases, that is unfair.

I mean, a lot of organizations are under an enormous amount of strain, and cyber attackers are looking for any kind of weakness that they can find.

But the reality is that these things happen, and when they happen, the impact of that can be quite significant.

We're talking to Raul Povar.

He's the founder of Red Sift, an internet security company about AI and deep fakes and fishing expeditions and things like that.

And so let's talk not so much about the big businesses.

A lot of them, well, they're aware of things.

They have their own challenges.

And certainly I know as a legislator,

once upon a time working with state government.

And I was blown away at the statistics on just how many attacks any given corporate system is getting on any given day that you have to fend off.

But apart from government and big business, when you look at some of these medium-sized businesses, however you want to define them, I'm sure that it's one thing they didn't think that they'd have to think about.

And probably to them sounds like

I don't want to say an unnecessary expense, but I'm sure they wonder about the return on investment.

So when you're working on businesses that aren't, you know, say in the Fortune 500, what do you tell them about the need to make those investments in the cybersecurity of their business?

That's a very good point.

Naturally, I'm a technologist, so I feel pretty comfortable with technology, but there are lots of businesses all the way from regional banks and healthcare providers to someone who runs an e-commerce shop online in their particular niche.

A lot of those businesses don't realize that they're actually pretty digital today because they acquire customers through digital channels, they manage the internal systems of HR and payroll, and they're

banking systems, all of that online really in 2025.

So many businesses just haven't gotten around the mindset that actually whatever they may have done over the last 100 years, these days a lot of their risk is actually in the digital domain.

And this is particularly true of those medium-sized businesses, those regional businesses that are out there.

And they need to think about their

cyber security, the internet security in very much the same way as they think about their physical security and the way they rationalize those physical security investments, they've got to extend that to the digital domain because the impact of getting it wrong over there is actually pretty significant for everyone today.

Well, that's where in looking at your website, redsift.com, I took note of the need to fight AI.

with AI.

The note here says effective defense requires AI tools that can scan the full attack surface, detect deep fakes and look alike domains, prioritize the most dangerous threats and drastically cut the need for manual triage workloads.

That's a very, you know, in depth way of saying it used to be really easy to spot fishing.

I mean, not

I mean, people still fell for it, but it was, you know, dear customer and things like that.

And now, essentially, because they're using AI, you're saying AI has to be part of the toolkit for fighting the worst tools that AI can put out there.

Yeah, exactly.

I mean, about 10 years ago, most people would train their employees that, you know, if you want to spot spot fishing, look for misspellings, look for bad English.

Nowadays, pretty much every bad actor has access to some sort of AI that's going to bang out perfect personalized.

English to target the target and customers.

There's going to be AI that's going to spin up websites that look exactly like your bank, exactly like your healthcare provider, except all the clicks and buttons that point to various types of nefarious services.

So this is really being industrialized and super powered through the use of AI.

And I think it's unrealistic to expect

society really, businesses, governments to fight this with just pure human capital.

It just isn't a very scalable solution.

So us and a whole bunch of other businesses are out there trying to put AI tools into the hands of the defenders so that they can address some of these challenges in the same level of efficiency and scale that the attackers have access to today.

That was Rahul Povar from Redshift.com.

Tomorrow, by the way, no more leftovers.

We'll have fresh conversations with Dr. Kristen Lierly, author Laura Bird with a new batch of book recommendations, Greg Bach, and our Friday Week in Review panel featuring former U.S.

Attorney Jim Santel, who might have some thoughts on the new U.S.

Attorney for the eastern part of Wisconsin, appointed by Donald Trump.

I'm Pat Krightlund.

You're up to it.

I really like doing segments like the one we're about to start here with Brian Kennedy because first as a reporter and then an elected official at the state level and now in my capacity here, I could not possibly express enough admiration for the people who run for local office.

I got my start covering county boards in Eau Claire County and Chippewa County, the Chippewa City Council.

And then I've been to more county board, town board, village board meetings than I could possibly count over the years, either covering them as a reporter or speaking as an elected official.

It is thankless work.

And yet people continue to do it because of a certain level of satisfaction and service they give to their communities.

So having said all that,

Perhaps you might be interested in running for local office and want to know where to begin.

I got a guy for that.

From suburban Milwaukee, let's get down to Glendale and talk to Mayor Brian Kennedy, who's also president of the group Democratic Municipal Officials, nationaldmo.org is the website.

I'll put that up on screen on social media in just a bit here.

Mayor Brian Kennedy, good morning.

How are you?

Good morning, Matt.

I'm doing great.

How are you this morning?

It's good.

Good to see you.

It's been a while.

It's great to talk to you, and especially about this particular subject.

I mean, I've, of course, have now expressed my admiration for local officials.

You're one of them, but I'm sure you would agree with the concept of people serving in their hometowns and what it is that you appreciate about them.

Yeah, you know, running for local office is basically because you want to serve your community.

There's really not, for most of us, this is a part-time gig, you know, we all have day jobs, but we feel like there's a way that we can give back to our community.

You know, most people don't understand that when you run for school board or you run for city council or, or run for mayor that, you know, you're basically saying, I'm going to give up my nights and weekends to try and serve my community and I'm really not going to get paid very much for it.

You know, when I first ran for this position, Mayor Glendale paid about $5,000.

You know, my wife is like, why are you taking a job that pays a dollar an hour?

Because that's what it felt like as much time as I gave back to the community.

But, you know, there's a lot of good that we can do, and there's a lot of great opportunities to help shape what your community will become in the next 10 or 15 or 20 years by decisions that are made today.

And I will, from a political standpoint,

I'm going to put it this way.

We need all kinds of folks who are willing to run for local office and you do not have to be a Died in the World Democrat or a Died in the World Republican to serve in local office.

The vast majority of all of us are correctly described as somewhere in the center left to center right part of the spectrum.

But if people in that very large part of the spectrum don't serve, then that creates a vacuum for people on the fringes to get in.

And I know, Brian, you've seen the danger on school boards and other places where the only person who runs is somebody who shall we say service is not exactly their primary motive.

No, you're absolutely right.

You know, one of the reasons why in Wisconsin our local elected offices are all nonpartisan is because there really isn't a democratic way to pave a road or a republican way to pick up the garbage.

We're talking about providing services to our community that involve, for example, making sure you have clean drinking water, making sure that the parks are well maintained, so you have a place to take your kids or your grandkids to play, making sure that our schools have the funding they need so that, you know, the libraries are well stocked, their class sizes are small enough that the teachers can meet the needs of all of

of the students in the classroom.

We're not talking about setting agendas that are necessarily partisan.

But the thing I've noticed, and one of the reasons I got involved with Democratic municipal officials or DMO, is that the people, it seems like whose political philosophies are about serving their community and wanting to give back are more often than not,

on the left or the center left.

We don't necessarily engage in this because we've got some great agenda.

We just want to make sure there's a place for everybody, everybody feels included, and that people's needs are met.

And so that's why I think you see so many of Donald Trump goes after the Democrat cities, but I think you see so many of our municipal offices being held by Democrats across the country.

It's because our natural inclination is to create community and to create a space for everyone and to meet people's needs.

Yeah, another way to put it would be, you know, service driven.

And you and I have both met and befriended people who are to our political right, who are amazing people because they have that service component about them.

Again, we're not going to agree on everything.

We're not supposed to agree on everything.

We're supposed to work together.

But you only work together

if people with differing opinions still at least have service as one of their central values.

And if people go, why do you keep doing this?

Why do you engage in politics, talking politics, serving politics?

Brian, it's because I genuinely see those people and I know you still do today, people you don't always agree with, but there are just so many good people who want to serve their hometowns.

No, absolutely.

You know, years ago, I made friends when I was the state American Federation teachers president, I made friends on the other side of the aisle in the legislature.

I now serve on the Milwaukee Metropolitan Sewage District Commission with a good friend who was a Republican member of the state assembly.

And we, you know, in terms of, you know, developing our policies around, you know, how are we managing stormwater runoff?

How are we making sure that we're, you know,

reclaiming the water before and fully cleaning it before it gets returned to Lake Michigan.

We're on the same page, we're about serving.

So Jeff Stone, who I didn't always agree with when he was in the legislature, was a Republican member of the Assembly.

He and I now serve and sit next to each other at the MMSD meetings and we're on the same page about serving the community.

And you're right, there are people in both parties.

But I would say DMO finds itself with a very large audience because I think

you just see a lot more of that service component from people who were about building community and not necessarily about pushing through some sort of an agenda.

We are talking to Glendale Mayor Brian Kennedy talking about Democratic municipal officials, the group, their website is nationaldmo.org.

And in looking at the website, Brian, I mean, there's no shortage of

trainings out there and seminars and other things for people thinking about going into, you know, politics or public service in some way shape or form.

And yet you guys, you're basically, you're giving it away.

You're, you're put right there on the website.

It says, um, you know, here is a campaign starter kit and you click on it and it comes a five page Google doc of things to keep in mind.

So I mean, I

can't imagine a better place.

I'm not saying it's one stop shopping, but this year looks like it should be the first stop for somebody interested in running for office.

Certainly.

And you said it's funny.

Wisconsin, Wisconsin Democratic Party has probably the best outreach for local folks that want to run for office.

You can get so much help and assistance from our state party that most state parties in the country do not have.

And that's where National DMO comes in.

And what we offer is essentially for those people in all those states where their state party just isn't really equipped to offer them the resources to build a local campaign, we offer free resources.

goal here, we recognize if you're running for school board, you're probably running on a budget of $500 to run a campaign.

That's some yard.

signs and some door hangers, right?

And then you and your friends are going to go out and knock doors together.

So we've tried to help at DMO to how do we put together the right kind of trainings and the right kind of resources that we can offer to Democrats who want to run for local office.

And that's even if you're running for a nonpartisan office like we do here in Wisconsin, you know, I'm still a member of the Democratic Party.

And so anybody who is a Democrat who wants to run for local office has access to this training, the training materials that we have.

When I was

say this summer we did something we've never done before, we offered an all-day candidate camp.

collaborated with the DNC training department.

And on a Saturday in July, we had a seven hour training where we essentially walk through all the different aspects of how do you put together your messaging?

How do you build a database of supporters?

How do you fundraise?

How do you talk to people at the doors?

What should your website look like?

What kind of things did you focus on?

And we went through a whole day of training.

We had 545 people from across the country registered.

We'd never seen anything like that before.

And even some of the reddest places, like Kentucky and Tennessee, 545 people, 15% of the people who registered were from two of the reddest states in the country.

So we're making significant outreach to teach people how to run for local office and to recognize that it's not that hard.

It just seems daunting if you've never been a part of the political space before.

And so we've tried to create these very user-friendly, easy materials, trainings that have been recorded, you can watch, and a whole bunch of other resources.

including even access to vendors that will charge a congressional or a gubernatorial campaign a whole lot of money, offering free or almost free services if you're running for local office because they recognize we're building a bench here.

Yeah.

And on the website, you can find things like getting your campaign started, creating a logo and building your website and how to get started on fundraising and voter contact and mail and email programs and merchandise and even polling.

And again, connecting to other folks, like you said, maybe your state Democratic Party or others.

As you look back now, Brian, and I forget how long you've been involved in public service here, but if you could go back and talk to yourself as a

very first time candidate.

Is there one thing that you would tell yourself that you to do differently or to focus on more or to sweat about less?

Yes.

Don't look to national messaging when you're running for local office.

talk to your neighbors, talk to the parents of your kid's friends, talk to people at the grocery store, knock some doors, find out what people actually think.

One of the things I think we have seen far too often is we have this national messaging machine that tries to tell Democrats what they need to say.

And the real answers here, honestly, are found at the local level.

Because if I talk to my neighbors in Glendale, it's going to be different than if you're talking to your neighbors in Chippewa Falls.

we have different local concerns.

And so I would say, listen to those people and craft a message for your specific campaign that is very local.

And I did want to add one other thing about DMO.

DMO isn't just about getting elected.

We have two sides to this organization.

Once you are a municipal official, we actually have a policy arm that combines with National League of Cities, with National School Board Association, where we hold events and we hold trainings, where we share best practices

across the country.

So policy language that might be implemented in a suburb of New York City, I might find in one of these trainings and say, hey, that would be really great for Glendale.

And then somebody who is on a city council in suburban Kansas City might say, hey, I want to take that same language.

So we do share best practices across the board.

DMO wants to help you get elected.

And then once you're elected, wants to help you be effective when you're in office.

But the thing is, while we look at those national ideas, you still have to tailor them to your own specific municipality and the messaging that works in your community.

Yeah, you're not running to be, you know, Donald Trump light or Barack Obama light or anything like that.

This is as hometown service as it gets.

And that's why there are all these resources that are put forth by Democratic municipal officials at NationalDMO.org again, NationalDMO.org

Org.

And Brian Kennedy, the mayor of Glendale down there in the Milwaukee area, is the national president of the group and was kind enough to join us today to talk about getting your thoughts together about maybe running for office.

Brian, thank you.

It's always great to connect with you.

Thanks for sharing all these resources.

Hope you have a great day.

Thanks, Pat.

Appreciate you having me on your show.

You bet.

Anytime.

And again, nationaldmo.org is the website address.

Hey, we not only have Green Bay Packers football against the Lions on some of these civic media stations pregame at 10 a.m.

There's also Badger Men's basketball.

They're playing in a tournament in San Diego and going up against Providence.

Coverage begins at four o'clock this afternoon on some civic media stations.

Head to civicmedia.us for more.

The Milwaukee Bucks meanwhile continue their quest to defend their NBA Cup tomorrow night at Madison Square Garden going up against the New York Knicks.

I'm trying to sell it folks.

Then next Monday we've got Cyber Monday and Giving Tuesday will give you some ideas of ways you can use Giving Tuesday as a bit of a spark plug for showing the various ways you can be charitable in your hometown.

And after Cyber Monday and Giving Tuesday, don't forget about are these leftovers still safe to eat Wednesday?

Don't worry, the grave is still supposed to look like that six days later.

Coming to you from Lake Basota, this is Mornings with Pat Kratlow powered by UpNorth News on the Civic Media Radio Network.

Welcome back.

2025 will be remembered as the year our economy turns sour.

Can't imagine why.

And more people in the state need help from the Wisconsin Department of Workforce Development.

So we talked to Secretary Amy Pahacheck.

Do you want to start first with just an overarching view of the mission of the Wisconsin Department of Workforce Development?

Absolutely.

I would love to.

And Pat, you are spot on.

There is a lot of uncertainty in the economy and the job market these days.

And we know Wisconsinites are feeling it.

And whether that's folks looking for a new job, a career change, or entering or re-entering the workforce, the Department of Workforce Development has many services to support not only our job seekers, but our businesses here in the great state of Wisconsin.

So our agency is charged with connecting employers and workers across

the state.

So we do that through a variety of different ways.

We have 28 physical brick and mortar job centers all around the state, but we will meet folks anywhere at a Starbucks at a library.

And we also have virtual services that are

clearly online and statewide and available from the comfort of somebody's own home.

And all of the services we offer are at no cost.

So some of the things that we can do is we can connect local job seekers with training, certifications, resources.

We can help folks write resumes.

We can help them find a job.

We are the state's labor exchange.

So we have all of the open positions on the Job Center of Wisconsin for our employers that are looking for work so we can do a skills

and see what might be a great match for individuals.

We can also help people with things like apprenticeships or internships.

And we really have a lot of services also centered around historically underutilized, qualified talent pools.

This is individuals with disabilities.

We've got resources.

We've got funding to help folks.

And we work with businesses as well, connecting with these qualified job pools and we can do career

for businesses.

No cost.

We can set up businesses with apprenticeships, again with internships, make those connections.

We can provide training and we also have grants like Wisconsin Fast Forward, which are training grants that go to incumbent workers, new employees and their business led opportunities.

We distribute over 5 million in grants every year.

We have a lot of other wonderful things, but I think that is sort of a good overview and kind of a big

into what we do here for the state.

We're talking to Amy Pajak, Secretary of the Wisconsin Department of Workforce Development about the increased number of job seekers and that.

That has just been the way things have gone in the 2025 economy.

At this point, you've had people losing their jobs in the public sector.

You've certainly had uncertainty because of tariffs.

You now have agricultural issues with a trade war that the president has got going on right now.

So in all of these things, I mean, I don't know if we want to take any one thing, but somebody has either been laid off, they've lost their job.

Maybe they're thinking about a change.

And so for all the things we just talked about, what is the best very first step that they can take?

Well, if somebody's laid off, they should go ahead and file for unemployment, which is the temporary income through unemployment insurance that we.

run here for the state of Wisconsin.

And I do have to say two quick things just about the progressive history of our wonderful state.

Wisconsin was the first state in the nation to pass both a state run unemployment system back in the 1930s.

We were also the first state in the nation to have a constitutionally valid workers compensation program and the first state in the nation to pass a state apprenticeship program all the way back in 1911.

So wonderful history there and all of these programs

are available.

But if I have lost my job, I want to immediately file for unemployment so I can start to access some of those unemployment payments that folks are entitled to, that is not taxpayer money, that is an insurance program that employers pay into through their state taxes.

So that is their state program.

So that is basically there as a safety net to keep not only that individual and their family with income while they are looking for a job.

but it also keeps our lo because when folks receiv

putting gas in their car, which keeps all of our businesses moving forward.

But at that point, maybe you're thinking about a career change.

Maybe you're thinking about a certification.

And we have job counselors that will go and do a skills assessment, talk to you about your interests, what schooling you may want to attend, or maybe you want a certification or apprenticeship.

We can help find you resources not only to pay for those trainings or schooling, but also additional resources that we can help provide, including

including access to childcare, maybe somebody's having a hard time putting food at the table.

We are there to connect those dots and really act as the convener of different resources available to people because we know that really going to work every day, it has a lot.

You need a good job, but you also need to be able to feed the kids and make sure you have those first really important needs met in your family.

So we are here to help.

hit all of those needs.

And I do, Pat, also want to talk a little bit more about the apprenticeship program because it is wildly popular here in Wisconsin, and it has expanded significantly over the last five years.

We've been breaking records in terms of numbers of registered apprenticeships, numbers of youth apprentices, with a record number of employer partners in a record number of new career pathways.

I know many of your listeners

think of apprentices and they think of the trades, which are still some of the highest paid and highest enrollment numbers that we have.

So those are our electricians, our welders, our plumbers.

They're wonderful occupations.

In Wisconsin, we've been leading the way and we have rolled out the first in the nation four year registered nurse, which is a bachelor's degree apprentice.

And we have teaching apprentice IT, cybersecurity, HR, finance.

And what makes Wisconsin different than all of the other states is that we require an earn while you learn model, which means that folks are paid not only for their hands on work experience while they're learning their craft and their skills.

but also for their associated time in the classroom.

So this is typically a zero out of pocket zero debt while you're earning money, way to get a degree or certification in virtually any industry, any occupation that includes tourism, farming.

food preparation, amazing opportunities here.

So I'm happy to be able to highlight what a great program that we have.

Coming up after the news, Chuck Collins of Patriotic Millionaires, Dr. Kelly Snooks and more.

Remember, you can follow my team all day long at UpNorthNewsWI.com.

And of course, warnings here on the Civic Media Radio Network.

I'm Pat Cright Long.

Across Wisconsin on Civic Media, you're listening to Mornings with Pat Gritlow, powered by Up North News.

Now, from our Lake Wissota studio, here's the founding editor of Up North News.

Pat Crite Low.

Well, good morning, 806.

Nice to have you here up north on this Thanksgiving morning, November 27th.

We are bringing you the best kinds of leftovers today.

The great conversations you may have missed recently on these mornings powered by Upnerth News.

We'll hear from pediatrician Dr. Kelly Snooks about measles prevention and recognition.

We will have a playback of our visit with Tom Nelson, author of a book about the sinking of the Edmund Fitzgerald and more.

First,

Some folks are addressing the growing wealth gap in this country from a position of familiarity.

Some of them have generational wealth and want to use it as a platform to close a gap that threatens our country's future.

People know about Oskar Meyer.

and how you know once upon a time worked in I believe the Chicago Stockyards for both Swift and Armor before starting a little company of his own and his grandson Chuck Collins is one of those folks who should be part of the family dynasty, the wealth that comes along with it.

But Chuck has seen the world and has decided to use his life to point out the wealth inequality and the widening gap here in the world, starting with families who may be acquired wealth, but then it's what they've done in trying to protect the wealth and grow the wealth that has really had negative impacts on our society, on our politics and on our planet.

And so it is an honor to welcome Chuck Collins to the program this morning.

Chuck, good morning.

Thank you for being here.

How are

you?

Good morning, Pat.

Thank you for having me, and I should say my wife taunts me by singing that armor song.

I sang it to my daughter and grandkids yesterday, and it just didn't resonate with them the way that it did, or the old Oscar Meyer jingles for that matter.

come from that Oscar Meyer family, and you talk in your book, Burned by Billionaires, and thank you again for the copy to Peruse before the interview here.

You talk about the, I guess, I would say the old timey companies, you know, the Carnegie's, the Vanderbilts, the Rockefellers, and we were all familiar with the gilded age of that time.

And

It seems like more people than ever, but still not nearly enough people understand just what a gilded age we've entered with this new generation of family wealth.

Yeah, we are living through an extraordinary growth of wealth inequality in the U.S.

and it's pretty much taken over 40 years to get to this point.

For people who grew up in the years after World War II, we were kind of growing together.

The middle class was expanding.

And then in the late 70s, we made this turn and we've become more and more unequal.

And I would say most of the wealth and income now, it's not just growing to the top 1%, it's going to that top one-tenth of 1%, the folks with $40 million.

So that's the time we're living in extreme inequality.

And it's like you said in the book, and you make a great point about this, it's one thing to acquire wealth.

And a lot of Americans, frankly, don't begrudge that if you've built yourself from virtually nothing into something, okay, that's one thing.

And then maybe some people are familiar with the next stage of how you protect that wealth and looking for the tax shelters and the corporate acquisitions and all that.

But it's these next two phases that I think people are less familiar with basically about regulatory capture, if you will, but then wealth extraction.

Can you talk more about those stages and where you think we're at right now?

Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of us respect people who start companies and create something useful and are rewarded financially for that.

But as you say, Pat, there's a stage where then once people get a certain level of wealth, and I would say it's sort of around that 40 million mark, they start to invest in wealth defense, and they invest in what I would call billionaire capture, the capture of our political system, influencing the writing of rules, policies, laws, kind of in their favor.

So the wealthy use their wealth.

get more wealth.

And then we're in this final stage, and this is the most complicated to understand, where the ultra wealthy are starting to say, well, how can we extract more wealth from the healthy real economy?

And I call that we're living through the hyper extractive phase, where every corner of our lives, healthcare, housing, how our pets are taken care of everything, there are these billionaire back private equity companies coming in and sort of hoovering up the wealth.

Perfectly profitable companies they're buying sometimes, but they just want higher and higher returns.

So that's kind of the complicated moment we're in.

And Hooverine is the perfect way to put it.

And again, it seemed like a relatively small amount of people understood in the beginning that this isn't just about protecting some tax loopholes and, oh, good for them.

They don't have to pay as high a percentage of taxes as we do.