Jill Underly and Mark Pocan on Cuts and Chaos (Hour 2)

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Now, for my Lake Mesota studio, here is the founding editor of Up North News, Pat Kratlow.

Good morning.

It is 7 0 6 on this Wednesday morning, May 7th, 2025.

Nice to have you here up north.

Coming up this hour, our regular Wednesday homeroom segment.

Often we talk to folks from the Wisconsin Public Education Network.

We went a little higher up the food chain.

We're talking to basically the the head of Wisconsin public education

And that would be state superintendent Jill Underly will join us.

We'll talk about the crafting of the state budget bill, the chaos in Washington DC and its potential impact on Wisconsin education.

And of course, we'll talk about teacher appreciation week coming up as well.

Joseph Peckie in our next hour, Melissa Kay is hanging around to chat with us some more and Brittany Merlot joins us civic media meteorologist and award winning report.

How do

we we have two award winners?

Yes, look at all the

I mean, I'm

technically

a

third.

But it was second place.

You're there.

You're still award-winning.

Yes.

I don't have

a

hardware.

Oh, you still have the paper.

This is awesome.

I got this old pencil.

This pencil shop, would you take that as a trophy?

Hey,

look, a blind guy from the 19th century to stroll in.

A literal tin cup that I somehow inherited.

That's kind of

cool.

I was just going to say, I would take that.

That's pretty cool.

You know, you

could more useful than a thing that's going to hang on the wall.

Yeah,

or

copper.

Probably be a great Moscow mule thing if it didn't have like 30 years of ink at the bottom of it as a pen

and

pencil cup.

This just makes you tougher.

Coca-Cola.

It just

makes the drink that much stronger.

Well, we better get to the weather here, Brittany, where we have enjoyed just a lovely warm-up.

which I'd love to see continue, but maybe with a bit of a dip on the way toward those warmer days.

Yes.

So it was wild, warm yesterday.

Ashland hit 87 degrees.

I went outside in pants.

Okay.

Yes.

I'm emitting the meteorologist did not listen to her own forecast.

I went out for a walk in pants that I was sweating in the afternoon.

So.

I'm welcoming the cool down because that was a little much really quickly but either way Ashland hit 87 degrees and you know we are going to see cooler temperatures still hanging out by Lake Michigan and even by Lake Superior now we're going to start to get that cool down as this cold front has moved through the state so it's going to keep us a little bit more comfortable today not as warm.

Still plenty of sunshine, dry conditions and a very high fire danger.

That's through most of the state, especially north of Wisconsin Dells, all throughout the north woods.

Of course, we've got a little bit of green grass out there, but it's not enough.

Still, that vegetation is still trying to come back to life.

So even just a few days of dryness in these conditions, it can spark a wildfire rapidly.

So please be careful.

I think there's 30 counties with burn permits now suspended.

We've had 658 wildfires burning over 2,000 acres so far just this year.

in our state.

So please be careful out there.

Otherwise, high temperatures today will hit the seventies south and west in the state.

But if you're by the big lakes, you know, Lake Superior Lake, Michigan, you're going to be in the mid fifties for highs today.

A ton of sunshine up north, a few more clouds down south because there is some rain hanging out into Illinois and Iowa.

That cold front should keep a lot of it away from us.

So I don't suspect any rain for today.

We do have chances moving back for some showers and storms Friday nights and into our Saturday morning.

as another cold front drops through.

But behind that front, we warm things up rapidly.

We're going to be right back into those mid-70s for the weekend.

So a slight cool down now, and it's holding all the warmth for the weekend.

All right, very good.

Melissa, I was asking at the top about using this nice weather to grill out.

And I wonder if, in all of your busyness, are you guys, are you grillers over there?

And have you been a chance to do some outdoor cooking?

I'll have to cook over my campfire, because I don't have a grill anymore.

But yeah, I love cooking outdoors.

It's fun.

I'm Pudgy Pie makers.

There's so many things you can do with those.

I love a savory Pudgy Pie.

Yes.

Crab Rangoon.

For a meatball and a croissant.

Croissant.

Hey, Brittany, did you know that Melissa was in a band?

Sorry, I just had to bring that up again.

No.

Oh, we're coming back to that.

Oh, my God.

Come

on,

guys.

Yeah.

Robin Tigerton says, good morning, partly sunny, 51 degrees yesterday, soaking up the sunshine, mowing lawns in the Wittenberg area.

And today I've got four yards to mow in Tigerton.

He said yesterday he had a 3 p.m.

lunch at Rachel's Roadside in Wittenberg.

They had a fundraiser for a gentleman in Wittenberg who has throat cancer.

See, I signed a $10 sign-in for a guitar.

I'm thinking that maybe was a prize

for that.

You're the fundraiser.

Oh, no.

I got you.

And Melissa, I hope I can buy you a drink sometime after I bought her, Brittany and Dr. Kristen and Appleton on election night.

Yes, thank you, Rob.

That was very thoughtful.

Thank

you.

Yes, as Brittany and Melissa, a winning Wisconsin team, and that it was 82 degrees in Tigerton, dust flying in the farm fields as farmers work up their fields.

And yes, they are.

The

field work

is like fast and ffffff.

furious.

And dusty.

And dusty.

Yes.

And very dusty.

That's all right.

Brittany, appreciate the forecast.

Thank you so much for that.

But now let's get to the thing we just learned about about Melissa here that

she

was in a rock band

before we get to that.

Brittany, were you ever in a rock band?

Do we have any

Um, no, no, never rock bands.

Okay.

Then we'll just keep the focus on Melissa

here.

So

for folks who might have tuned in after the top of the hour here, she's kind of let it drop that.

She was in a band called.

What was the name of the band again?

I'm not saying it

checkered past the

checkered which I thought it was a scab and just because the reference to checkered because that's but I listen don't get all blushy washy over this.

You brought it up.

Okay.

We

did.

I did only because I hate hotel California.

Don't see that.

That's what that hatred does though.

That that hatred leads you to say things

you

will regret.

And if you do that with the Eagles, yes, I was one of

the singers in the band.

And I changed outfits every set.

So I had, you know, a plethora of cute things to wear that were red, black and white.

And Oh, so you go for like white

stripes thing?

I see.

Okay.

All right.

It was a party band.

I mean, these guys were all born in the 60s.

So they were all very I think the band broke up in the early 90s, maybe late 80s.

And then they got back together and

When did this all happen for you?

I need to

know.

Early 2000s?

Mid 2000s, probably.

Mid

2000s.

Yeah.

Any chance you'd be interested in like a one night reunion, you know,

one night only?

No.

Like I say, the WBA Awards 2026.

No.

Oh,

no, no.

No, great.

Look at this.

Troy was not pretty

Troy from Madison listening to WA UK says checkered pass was a good band.

Wow,

you got a fan.

There's more than one checkered pass and it's probably not the one I was

in.

I'm very intrigued

by these

pictures.

I need to see photographic evidence of this band.

I want to hear a verse because she said she was the singer.

Come on, move on.

Don't you have better

things to talk about on your morning show?

Not

at

all.

No, no, no.

No, the budget will be there for a while.

We can be sad about that later.

I was actually, if you hear clicking in the background here, we've got Dr. Jill Underly at 7.30.

And we've also, we're looking at scheduling up Congressman Mark Polkan.

And they were just sending a note saying, you know, could he, could you pop on today?

I'm like, well, yeah, we could do 7.45 after Dr. Underly, but we may push both of these interviews.

We can

talk about school and Congress any time.

We

need to rock out

right now.

We're

going to

hand Brittany a tambourine, and we're just going to... It's the greatest day on earth.

No, it's not.

When you had the talk show, and are you bringing back the talk show?

Is that in limbo?

What's the state

of...

We'll see what happens.

It is award-winning.

It is

award-winning.

Yes.

I'm thinking either you interview yourself as a rock star

or somebody.

I

interview

myself.

Or somebody interviews you.

Melissa, how did you think about being in this band?

Well, you know, it was an interesting time in my life.

I remember most of it.

All

right.

Well, then you weren't that good of a band if you remember most of it from what I know of musicians.

Exactly.

Oh gosh, if you were going to do this though, what would you like to do?

Would you would you do rock again?

Would you do oldies, polka?

Honestly, I would like to get back into because I am learning guitar.

I've just taken a very long break from it.

So I would just like to see you to learn and play and sing my own music or you know, covers that I like.

Melissa.

Those two bands.

I don't enjoy singing.

You know, who else took a break?

You know, who took a 14 year break?

You?

The Eagles.

14 year break came back and made all kinds of money after that.

I can see it

now.

It's your own.

Seize the K.

Yes.

Oh, look at this.

We're just, we're whiteboarding an entire marketing plan for this.

Meanwhile, over at WFHR and WIRI, we're like, all right, I thought this was supposed to be about our station.

She's going to tell us what was coming up on the stations.

It's just all about the rock band.

So.

molasses or anything at the those

fabulous

wisconsin rapid stations you want to

tell us about

We have a lot of fun with our new time slots.

Our morning show on WFHR has moved from 2.9 to 11.

And then our midday magazine has been rebroad, or re,

what's the word?

Rebranded?

Thank you, as The Rapids Report.

Oh, I like that.

The Rapids Report.

James did a good job with that name.

And that will be available on podcast only.

That's

where our audience is.

So that's where we're, it's available.

Are you,

are you doing the Stephen Colbert thing and like the Rapids rapport?

Like

that?

I'm not sure.

I'm not in charge of that.

Okay.

Okay.

To, to be determined.

All right.

And then on WIRI, we have our morning show from seven to nine.

Okay, that's fabulous.

So there you

go, folks, Civic Media app.

If you need any other way to reach Melissa and all that she does and whatever play you're going to direct next and whatever band you're going to be in next and whatever podcast you're going to do next, you're like a Renaissance woman here.

I'm going to go work in my yard.

Okay, flower beds and everything.

All right.

Yes.

It's great to catch up with you.

We're just we're so happy about the play and we didn't get to talk to you last week.

So thanks for letting us

get a

double dose of you this

time around.

Thank you so much.

Yes.

And Brittany will talk to you in our next hour as well.

Get an update on the forecast.

Okay.

Robin Tigerton has this figured out I sang karaoke back in the 1990s.

Good thing no social media at the time.

Amen, Rob.

There's no phone video of anything that I did back in the day.

And that's how God meant it.

We weren't supposed to have permanent records online of these kinds of things.

I

agree.

Continuing on then with some of the headlines, if you missed it in our first hour, the Legislature's Joint Finance Committee.

We'll be meeting tomorrow and the Republicans who lead it will take action on Governor Tony Evers initial proposal That's how this thing starts the governor proposes a budget the legislature then you know ads or subtracts negotiates in the past they've just simply taken his bill and put it in the you know the metaphorical wastebasket and that's essentially what they're doing tomorrow when they put out a list of the 612 items that they're going to be

stripping from the budget bill.

That would include help for childcare, help for children exposed by lead paint or lead water lines, extra help fighting PFAS and drinking water, expanding Medicaid to cover more families, repealing taxes and tips and utility bills.

There were incentives to freeze local property taxes.

All of that is gone.

along with the extra help for education, for mental health services, all these things that were far and away the most talked about items when the Joint Finance Committee was holding its hearings around the state.

The governors proposed the things that people want and the Republicans on Joint Finance have said we don't want them and they're coming out.

So they'll make that official tomorrow.

Dr. Jill Underly on the way and perhaps Congressman Mark Pocan as well from the heart of America's Up North live from Lake Wissota.

Thanks for making this the place to spend part of your mornings.

I'm Pat Critello and this is the Civic Media Radio Network.

You're listening to Civic Media.

Stay up to date on the latest news and information for your local community and Wisconsin by signing up for our free email newsletter.

Visit civicmedia.us slash email to get

started.

checkered past, is it the same one that Troy and Madison saw once upon a time, inquiring minds want to know.

But in the meantime, we've got to do a little live on air business here.

If you were listening earlier, you know that Todd Alba had a little fun with me yesterday about, you know, time slots and where I was supposed to be and when.

But as you just heard in the last segment, we've now got the opportunity for a couple of different guests that could come on yet this morning.

but it would involve needing some flexibility on the part of Mr. Alba.

And I am kind of tap dancing here because he either is or is not going to be on the phone.

Oh, he is not.

He is not going to be there.

Well, I guess we know who's screening his calls now.

So Todd, if you're if you're listening and instead of at 750, we'd love to talk to you at 806 if you're around.

So

We'll send you a note to that effect.

I can't believe that.

Greg, did he just roll your right to voicemail over there?

No, this is not a Todd thing.

I'd love to play it.

I'll be like, yeah, Todd, but it's not.

Oh, okay, gotcha.

We had we understand.

So anyway, what we've got then is a state superintendent and Jill Underly who's going to be joining us in just about 10 minutes here.

And then Congressman Mark Pocan will be joining us around 745.

And so we'll get a chance to find out more about what's happening in Washington DC, both from Congressman Pocan, but also from state superintendent Underly because as you know, the

Trump administration is trying to cut just an insane amount of money that has already been approved by Congress and is meant to go to education in Wisconsin and other states.

And so we'll ask the state superintendent about that.

We'll ask the congressman about it as well.

And Jill Underly will talk about the state budget process and talk about teacher appreciation week, which is going on this week.

And well, I mean, obviously should be a

and everyday thing of appreciating the people who are educating our children.

But, you know, at this point, well, if we need a special week to remind people that these are things worth paying for, then we will definitely take it.

The daily newsletter from Up North News, you can find it at upnorthnewswi.com.

And in there today, Christina Laurie has a review of Wisconsin Dells Water Parks.

I shouldn't say a review, I should say an overview.

We're not rating them here for you, but...

She also gives you information on where you can look for the best deals when you stay at a water park, which you might do for something upcoming Memorial Day weekend or soon as school gets out for the year.

So head over to UpNorthNewsWI.com, click subscribe in the top banner and be part of that.

I have noticed this

Weird and I'm not the only one who's noticed this weird little fixation lately from Donald Trump and the men in his administration and dolls and young girls dolls and The the comments about how you know these girls don't need 20 dolls Maybe not 30 dolls and the Trump went on in another interview to say well the dolls might cost a couple of bucks more than they would normally

This from the guy that said he was going to be fighting inflation and prices were going to be coming down on day one Well, Mattel the maker of Barbie dolls has now announced it will increase the price of some US toys because of the Trump levies on Chinese imports But it's also just weird to see that Trump in multiple interviews and now other administration officials have

fixated on well girls can do you know less with dolls that was one way that that it was put and then Trump said as well about kids they don't need to have 250 pencils they can have five that's an actual quote that kids don't need 250 pencils they can have five they don't need 30 dolls he says I think they can have three or four dolls I just want to know why

why the girls and the dolls, why are you making them look materialistic?

Where's the comment of, well, maybe the guy in the big red MAGA hat doesn't need an 85 inch plasma screen.

Maybe you can

get by

with a 55, maybe you can get by with a 55 inch TV.

Maybe you don't need a pickup truck, you know, that is the largest thing on the road and a hazard.

Maybe you can get by with the little Ford Rangers.

you know that used to drive when people were using pickups you know to actually haul things on an everyday basis not just you know for show well i mean it's not about we don't hear that when you're talking if you're going to talk about shared sacrifice then for goodness sakes let's go all the way uh is there is there a caller on the line here greg there is a caller on the line from the weighty issue from the

bassin area sir uh welcome to morn's pack quite low quite low who is this where you calling from

Yeah, well you know where we're calling from the correct old plan this because I'm gonna snap who am I show yesterday Well

guess what

pal?

Guess what?

We've got the snafu on this show now.

I'm double booked.

I've got Jill Underly.

I've got Mark Pokan both in the next half hour, which you remember when Johnny Carson would always bump, you know, the comedian who was coming on at the very end?

Yeah.

How do you feel about being bumped to the top of the hour at the eight o'clock hour?

Well, I can do that because this is the first for radio for me.

I'm calling into your show naked, Pat.

I'm in the shower.

All right.

How do you, how do you do this every time you managed

to

take something where I think it's just working nicely and every time I'm hearing a little voice in the back and it's Luke Mathers having a heart attack.

I have to ask you a question.

How do you fall

forward every time?

Yeah, that's, that's a fair, that's a fair

question.

All right, pal.

We'll look next time around.

Honestly, I want to hear running water next time.

I mean, these things are waterproof now.

I'm about to have the state superintendent and a member of Congress on Todd.

We have to save this for the eight o'clock hour.

I will talk.

Wow.

I'll see you in a half hour, buddy.

From the heart of America's Up North and live from Lake Wasota, thanks for making this a place to spend part of your mornings.

I'm Pat Krightlow.

This is the Civic Media Radio Network.

From the text line from Lori in Hayward, maybe Donnie Toodles doesn't need a $45 million birthday military parade.

Yeah, we haven't even really gotten into that yet.

In part because there's so many times that President Trump says something and then nothing comes of it.

He says, I want to do this and sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn't and there are many real things that affect you right now.

And if we get to the point where

This guy's actually serious about a multi-million dollar parade, as he's telling kids they don't really need toys for Christmas.

We'll get into it then.

But let's deal with what we've got in the here and now, and that includes reminding you that Dan Schaefer, who was on in the last hour, you can catch his work at the Recombobulation Area, and I didn't share that address earlier when he was with us.

It's at therecombobulationarea.news.

the recombobulationarea.news and of course all across the Civic Media website where he is the Civic Media Political Editor.

Let's visit now with State Superintendent of Public Construction Dr. Jill Underly as we head through Teacher Appreciation Week and start to bring this school year in for a landing.

Dr. Underly, good morning.

How are you?

Yeah, good morning.

I'm doing great.

Thanks for asking.

Yeah, well, we appreciated the chance to get to check in with you before the school year wrapped up entirely.

And while the state budget was going on, and while whatever this is was happening in Washington DC, let's start with the good news first.

It being Teacher Appreciation Week, you've already provided some official recognition to one educator.

There are more to come.

So can you tell us about the importance of having a week like this?

Yeah, I mean, it's really just that teachers leave such a lasting impact on their students and we can't thank them enough.

for everything they do every day.

And I think everybody has that teacher in their life that they've thought about here and there who's made such a deep impact on them as adults.

And

as

you said, there's more to come.

We named our first one earlier this week on Monday.

And that was Joel Coyne at Sun Prairie East and Sun Prairie East High School.

He's a business and marketing teacher.

Second career.

teacher so teaching was not his first first thing out of college but no there's there are more to come and we we try to do one in every level so elementary middle high school as well as pupil services and and then electives.

You know, and it's great that the Department of Public Instruction does that, but I also noticed that, say, local media will do that.

They'll have, you know, Golden Apple Awards or Sunshine Awards or Jefferson Awards or all kinds of things where they too will salute these local educators.

It seems like an awfully nice and well-deserved counterbalance to what we so often heard in political circles about public education in our state and in our country.

Yeah, there is such an imbalance.

I think, you know, when you look at the day-to-day of schools, incredible stuff happens in schools every day.

It's positive.

When you go into schools and you visit schools, I mean, they're celebrating students.

They're celebrating the work of their teachers.

And it's so positive, but the positive stuff very, very rarely.

I feel makes it into the regular news cycle.

The news cycle focuses on what sells.

It focuses on the negative.

It focuses on controversy.

And unfortunately, for our schools, they lose out on that.

And that would be something I'd love to change.

Oh, without a doubt.

We're talking to Jill Underly, State Superintendent of Public Instruction.

And part of that, of course, stems from, I mean, we're going to weigh back now to the Act 10 days and the years that this legislature has had the current management scheme, shall we say.

And as we have talked about in the show, the Republicans running the Joint Finance Committee have already announced the 612 things that Governor Evers has proposed, that they're going to strip out of the state budget.

Many of these things deal with education, some you agreed with, some you probably would have liked to have seen, you know,

done more or differently.

But just from an overall standpoint, looking at the state budget and where we are in the process right now, what's your own evaluation of what the finished product could end up looking like?

Yeah, I mean, I think we're on the same page.

I feel like

that the Republicans in the legislature also understand that we must invest in our public schools and the future of our kids.

And I mean, that's exactly what mine and Governor Evers' budget proposal does.

And it's a great opportunity.

It's a tremendous opportunity to shape Wisconsin's future.

I mean, they could leave their mark.

on Wisconsin's future by making critical investments in education.

I mean, the cards are out there, you know, the number of referendums that have been on the ballot, the number of referendums that pass.

Also the ones that just barely fail, I think.

you know, the public, you know, at the hearings, you know, has made it very clear that they value investing in public education.

And we have been, when you think about the generations of kids since act 10, I mean, we're 15, 15 years that these kids, we've, we've graduated an entire cohort of kids.

that have lived under austerity measures, teachers getting paid less than they would in other states, less than what they were earning really in real dollars in 2010.

You look at the cuts to programs that we've had to experience and in school districts trying to make that up by passing referendums.

I mean, these are opportunities that our kids and our future have really just missed out on.

And so

the Republicans and Joint Finance Committee can, they can leave an indelible mark on the future of Wisconsin, and it's an incredible opportunity to do so.

And we should note that sometimes things are pulled out of what the governor proposes, but then some things come back in it at either a lower level or some kind of a modified level.

So if we look at it from that approach, what kinds of things would

Would you say if people could contact their legislator, especially if it's a Republican one, to say, look, there is still time to make this better by doing X. And I mean, for me, X is always that wide disparity in special education reimbursement, but there's also mental health services.

What do you think can be done that is actually feasible that Republicans could put back in or modify?

Well, I think just giving our school districts the flexibility, again, to make their own decisions about.

revenue, making sure that they have enough revenue, whether it's in special education reimbursement, which would give them spendable revenue, whether it's in raising, you know, the low revenue ceiling to make it to the state average, giving school districts the flexibility by increasing the pupil amount.

I mean, the reasons our school districts are going to referendum is because they've been locked in to these revenue limits that were put into place in like 1993.

And it's just

really they are they are just handcuffed like they can't make local decisions because they don't have the ability to even raise their own revenue but then there's the other things like you mentioned you know like there's all these cuts coming from the federal government that we're going to have to figure out if those are priorities or not and our school districts have found that they have been you know mental health mental health support has been a lifesaver literally

for kids in our schools since COVID.

You look at the

investment in mental health has helped with our graduation rates and has reduced truancy.

You look at the investment in school nutrition and how that has actually improved academic outcomes.

So there's a lot of things and literacy.

I mean there's a lot of things and it's really just that we don't have the flexibility to implement these without the funding.

And we've got Congressman Mark Bocan standing by, and we're going to talk to him about this as well.

But let's conclude on that note of the uncertainty of what Trump says he wants to cut, what you're confident will be cut, the uncertainty about what is out there.

I mean, come on, I can't even form a basic question about

it because

we're getting so nothing but curveballs thrown at us from the very highest levels of government.

Yeah, it reminds me of those choose your own adventure books, you know, when we were younger.

But yeah, I mean, we're all for being efficient in government, but not when it comes at the expense of our kids.

I mean, and it's just really that's what is coming down to I mean, we were we're informed every week, it seems on some program that's being eliminated.

And the most recent one was the mental health professionals in our schools.

I mean, it's just ridiculous, you know, just

just how how cruel you know this can be but um I mean we're seeing results from the you know the federal funding before and for them to cut it um that's really unfortunate you know you look at the there's pilot programs that we've had you know for recruitment of teachers um we've had pilot programs for math instruction literacy um americor i mean there's so many things that um

we've, you know, know are working and yet are just being just randomly cut.

Well, again, under that that guise of, you know, we're returning education to the states, which is, again, a fallacy.

The state already has had that it needed the assistance from

the

federal government.

And that is certainly in jeopardy at this point.

Dr. John, the state superintendent of public construction, thank you so much for telling us about teacher appreciation week and giving us an update on all the governmental matters in Madison and DC.

You've got a lot of place to keep spinning and we appreciate you spending some time with us.

I appreciate it too.

Thanks so

much, Kat.

You bet.

Have a great day.

And let's turn the two again, the chaos in DC, where nobody's keeping the plates spinning.

I mean, the plates are just falling and crashing everywhere.

Congressman Mark Pocan joins us.

Congressman, how are you?

I'm

good.

I sorry.

I'm a little.

Oh, no, you're fine.

We had we had Dr. Underly available.

So we've been able to have a very happy two for today to get both of you on the show this morning.

And so let's just start with that.

Let's pick up where we left off with Dr. Underly just on the education funding because yes, you've been in Congress for a while, but you were in the legislature for quite a while prior to that.

And so you can speak as well as anybody to this notion of

what the MAGA folks are saying is, well, cutting the US Department of Education doesn't mean anything.

We're just returning education control to the states.

It's so much more than that.

That's cow manure, OK?

Because I know I'm on the radio.

That's how I'm saying it.

Here's the bottom line.

They're cutting 45% of federal funding.

What that means, because they have not identified how they're going to do those cuts yet.

could mean cuts to things like Pell grants, which I received when I went to college.

It could be cuts to IDA or Title I funding.

These are some of the bigger pools of funding.

Title I is for lower income districts, many in rural parts of Wisconsin.

IDA is for special ed funding.

At the end of the day, if you cut one of those two funds locally, you're likely going to have to raise local taxes to pick up for some of the slack because you're going to have to fire a lot of teachers and you're going to have really big class sizes.

So that means we get a pay even

more for reduced services so that Elon Musk and Donald Trump get a giant tax cut because that's now five and a half trillion estimated by the Joint Committee on Taxation.

So yeah, I mean, Dr. Underly has got her hands very full with what's going to be coming up in the legislature as well.

And unfortunately, I don't have a lot of faith in the Republican majority of Congress to get it

right.

whatever they say because I'm looking at a USA Today article about how it says the Trump administration has reversed course on a proposal to cut all funding for Head Start and says that, you know, there will not be changes to the Head Start funding.

I don't know that I can trust that.

No, this happened a number of years ago when they were going to cut, when Trump won, was going to cut special Olympics funding.

And I and others called out the secretary when they came before my committee and they backpedaled and they didn't.

And the good news is we actually were able to add money at the end for it because of how stupid their moves were.

And certainly Head Start is one of those programs that be incredibly dumb to try to cut, but they're going to have

these cuts supposedly between now and Memorial Day, I think it's going to stretch into between now and July 4th, because they already had to cancel three here and three markups this week, because even their members are saying, oh, you mean when I said I was going to cut 880 billion, I was going to cut Medicaid?

Oops.

No, they knew it, but they're getting enough pressure from people back home.

Exactly.

And that's exactly what we need to do right now.

That's right.

That pressure up.

We'll continue the conversation with Congressman Mark Pocan, but first from the heart of America's Up North, live from Lake Wissota.

Thanks for making this the place to spend part of your mornings.

Joe Specki, in our next hour, I'm Pat Crichtlow and this is the Civic Media Radio Network.

You're listening to Civic Media.

Find the latest news, information, and archives of all your favorite shows on the Civic Media website, civicmedia.us.

Tomorrow on the program, we will have Melissa Baldoff and our state capital report will include State Senator Sarah Kieske about a bill that would ban Wall Street hedge funds from owning single family homes in Wisconsin, which drives up prices as they get converted to rentals.

Let's continue the conversation now with Congressman Mark Prokhan and let's start with Medicaid this time around and a tale of two of your colleagues.

You have on the one hand Congressman Derrick Van Orden

Again, saying all the usual things like he has told his leadership and he has signed a pledge not to make any cuts to Medicaid and well, we're going to cut all kinds of ways for an abuse but not Medicaid.

And then Ron Johnson goes and rips off the Band-Aid and says, I don't know why everybody is so squeamish about this.

If we got to get rid of Medicaid, we got to get rid of Medicaid is what he's saying in so many words.

And I'm kind of thinking he did us all a favor by saying the quiet part out loud and making it clear that

for every Derek Van Orden out there, promising not to cut Medicaid.

There's Iran Johnson kind of giving up the game.

Well, the thing is, when you make a promise, you also have to keep it.

And I've heard those promises made by.

that member on SNAP, and he voted to cut SNAP as well.

So, you know, what the Republicans in the House did, and then the Senate concurred in a vote, even though they had 2% of the cuts of what the House had, was an $880 billion cut to the Department of, to the Energy and Commerce Committee's jurisdiction.

Their jurisdiction is Medicaid, Medicare, and everything else, the totaling $581 billion.

So even if you cut,

everything else, which no one has ever said they were going to do, you would still have to cut either Medicaid or Medicare by 299 billion by their own votes.

So anyone who says that they're not going to cut it, already voted to cut it, that's just not true.

And, you know, Ron Johnson, you know, often says things out loud that, you know, most people would not say out loud, but it's true that that's what they want to go after.

I think what they want to make it

So that able-bodied men have to work in order to get Medicaid, which saves so, so little money that's nothing close, nothing close to what they're proposing.

They're going to propose maybe a per capita limit on folks and all sorts of things.

And luckily, they're having a fight within their caucus right now.

But I noticed, you know, Derek did not sign the letter that some members sent publicly saying they wouldn't vote for Medicaid cuts.

So I guess we'll see what happens at the end of the day.

But Medicaid

for your listeners is health care and long-term care for 1.3 million people in Wisconsin.

103 kids gets their health care from Medicaid to 55% of seniors and nursing homes gets their support from Medicaid.

45% of adults living independently with disabilities get support from Medicaid.

So it's a big thing and that's why it's important not to cut.

It's a big thing for it's a lifeline for so many families and Senator Ron Johnson just speaks so cavalierly of just you know cutting it It's it's got to be cut and I guess magically the the private insurance folks come in and

It's all affordable somehow or another.

I'm not quite sure or they just go without cover.

I don't know what the Ron Johnson alternative is.

I'm

not

asking you to speak for him.

He

can take his private jet to any doctor in the country.

Yeah, I think that percent of people in Wisconsin is very very small.

So you did allude to the other thing I wanted to ask about with with Congressman Van Orden and others who have said, oh, we're not going to cut snap, you know, traditionally known as food stamps, nutrition assistance and

came up with this other scheme where instead of passing like 25% of the cost on to the states, you would only pass on the cost based on the SNAP overpayment rate or the error rate in your state, which makes me wonder, was that the Republican plan all along?

But you start with an extreme position and then, you know, Derek Van Orden looks like a hero by saying, no, no, no, let's go to this lower number instead.

Or do you end up that they actually do try to, you know,

push 20% of SNAP costs on the state government.

And folks like Derek Van Orden have to say, well, what could I do?

I was outvoted.

That's a cut.

And they vote for the package at the end.

They voted for a cut.

It's so simple.

You know, yesterday, I had a little conversation with the Treasury Secretary and a committee, and I asked a real simple question.

Who pays for tariffs?

And boy, the answer was the most

esoteric Zen Buddhist theory of life answer rather than who pays for tariffs.

And in this case, if you vote to cut the funding, that's a cut.

Vote to cut a program.

And we can't let them get away with any kind of tap dancing about what the words mean.

And we need to hold people accountable.

So this is really why when Republican members of the House or Senate don't have town halls and

aren't accountable to being heard by their constituents that you know they'll listen to the DC special interests and their leadership rather than the people back home and and that's why that's such a big problem.

I've got a note here from somebody at Civic Media who says that they put that clip of of you talking about tariffs and trying to get a straight answer.

They put it up on the Civic Media Instagram and that site alone that video got 300,000 views because people are just they

in disbelief that they won't answer a basic question from you?

Well, I guess it was Jimmy Kimmel last night.

Last night I was on Learn to Donald.

And what he said, and it really made the most sense, was it's such a simple question.

And the fact that they can't answer, usually members of Congress have to bloviate.

And I'm as bad at that as probably anyone.

But it was a really simple question.

It wasn't a gotcha.

I was trying to get to talking about businesses in Wisconsin that are being hurt by the tariffs.

But when he couldn't even answer the most basic question,

It just shows you it doesn't pass the smell test that we live by back home.

And at the end of the day, Trump's tariffs are taxes on all of us.

But man, I lost my five minutes just trying to get a simple answer to who pays for tariffs.

And I think at the end, the secretary looked pretty bad for trying to tap dance that desperately.

Look, if you want to do something, just say you're going to do it.

And I mean, give Trump credit at some point, he finally did say, yes, those Barbie dolls will cost a couple of bucks more.

And just follow along with that if you can.

But the tap dancing, I sense, will continue as we move through this process.

And we appreciate the update.

Congressman Mark Pocan from the Second Congressional District.

Always great to catch up with you.

Thank you so much for your time.

Yeah, same thing.

Thank you, Pat.

Take care.

Yep.

Take care now.

And again, tomorrow we'll have State Senator Sarah Kieske on Melissa Baldoff as well.

Coming up in our next hour, we will be talking to Joseph Pecky.

I will ask the Medicaid question there as well.

We will get an updated forecast from meteorologist Brittany Merleau and Todd Alba.

Allegedly, Greg.

Oh, we think.

He

said

he'll be here with clothes.

Oh, okay in that case Greg back is back in one hour for Matt

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