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Play Machine: Synth wizard meets drum master Live on Max Ink Radio

Max Ink Radio · Sat Apr 25, 2026

You found Wisconsin's local music authority. This is MagSync Radio. We are local music.

Play Machine is an art pop duo from Madison, blending sharp songwriting with pulse and

polish of EDM, formed by synthesis and vocalist Brian Liston and drummer Joey B. Banks,

the band fuses live percussion, synth textures into a new age online guard pop experiment.

Here to perform live from the Mad City presented by the Aaron Weber group is Play Machine.

Brian, Joey, welcome to MagSync Radio. Hello, rocker. Thanks for having us on rock.

Oh, thanks guys for coming. Now, Joey, you coming in hot tonight from Chicago. It's a special

occasion. What are you doing? I'm happy to say it was my youngest granddaughters first birthday.

Oh, man. Very first, but that also means I'm old. Oh, come on. You're young and heart, though.

Double edged. I know that for sure. My one-year-old granddaughter, Alessie, had her first birthday party today.

A happy birthday, Alessie, from MagSync Radio. Did your wife think you're a crazy book

in a gig this night and do it on this night? Well, yeah, she's mad at me because she wanted to stay at

the party longer. We had to get up and we had to get out. It's music, huh? Yep, that's the way

the ball bounces. Well, let's meet Brian Liston. Currently, owner of Clutch Studios and

tonight playing synthesizers and all things not drums. Brian, how did you get started playing music?

Let's get back to the beginning. I mean, what's your backstory? Well, you know,

musical family. Grandma was a classical piano instructor, a Juilliard, and all that.

Father was a PhD in music. He's got a conductor himself. Yeah, pretty much us growing up. We

were just always playing instruments. And if we're at a family function, they would come out

to sheet music and my dad would be a tempo tempo. That was what we did. So then, yeah,

going getting into college, I started playing more rock and roll bands and got more into the

recording because, you know, we didn't have any money to go into a studio. So I just kind of

figured out how to do this stuff because I was kind of always around it and I'd seen it done a lot.

Yeah. And yeah, still, still recording to this day. Wow, that's pretty cool. Tell us about

Clutch Studios. We are now in our third location here in Madison, but what everyone likes is

where we started was in the former smart studio space. Oh, that's right. Yeah, I think,

you know, I think we'll be talking about that in a little while. Okay. But it's still a current

of a studio right? You guys are doing a lot of it. We have a 2,500 square foot facility just south

of the belt line by the old Badger Bowl, which is no. Wow. No, a bandrova dealer or something like

that. But yeah, we have all kinds of bands in there. We're currently recording an album with

automatic lover. Oh, that's just yeah, I can't wait till that stuff comes out. Yeah, dude,

we're recording the horns tomorrow. So yeah, it's coming along. We should be done in the next

month or so. Oh, how exciting. We'll get back to that in a little while. So you play piano.

Thank you, George. Do you play other instruments too? Yeah, I pretty much play, you know, I can play

just about any horn or, you know, like a sax or trombone. A lot of them. Wow. Yeah, you know,

trumpets, things like that. I'm not saying I'm awesome at all those, but I can look at the music

and funnel around. Well, especially like in the studio, right? You can maybe assist some of your bands

with extra parts. Well, yeah. And a lot of times I have to write out music, especially when I do a

lot of the advertising stuff, it's interesting because, you know, people are like, oh, I've got

these ideas. And then they come in with, you know, something maybe that they AI generator they

played around with. But horn players, they insist on having that music in front of them. So

I'll often have to, well, I used to be more of the pencil kind of guy, but I've forced myself in

more recent years to get good with the subalias so I can make proper scores. Oh, nice. Wow.

Sounds intense. Well, let's get right to some live music from the Mad City with play machine

presented by the Aaron Weber group. The first song you have for us tonight, it's called Navigation

Battle. Is this a song about tough conversation or Google maps? No, it's it's more about where the

music industry is going actually. Really? Where is it used to be more of what we're doing right now

on the radio and things have moved more to which we're also doing right now on the streaming.

So it's a song where we're really kind of talking about, you know, directions like where are we

going, man? Wow. Very interesting. All right. Well, let's check it out. We're going to we're going

to have you switch your headphones here because we have a really like a complex system going on

tonight. So, you know, hopefully we've we've hooked everything up to the right things here.

We're listening. We're live from the Mad City on Maxing Radio with play machine. We're going to

hear Navigation Battle.

Here we are now on the radio with the blind light.

It's just a good light. I'm not too sure yet what to say to you. You're left behind.

It's on my mind all the time. All the pieces are here to see.

I think you'll know, dear. I think you'll see this. The book is open.

Every page is yours. I think you deeply, but you still need me.

I think you'll know, dear. I think you'll know, dear. I think you'll know, dear.

Here we are now streaming on the internet. We don't play lists, but we don't get it. We're on the spotlight.

I think you know why. I guess that makes us content creators.

Because that's what everybody will know, right? All the time.

Why? Sometimes it takes much longer to find. The way to do things. I like to do things.

I've been around. I've been around. I've been around.

I've been around. I've been around.

I've become the follower. I can subscribe.

Wow. That was crazy. There's so many things going on. I was like looking around. Oh my goodness.

Crazy. So much sound from just two people. You're listening to Play Machine Live from the Man City on Max Ink Radio.

That was navigation battle. Wow. Pretty incredible. Do you like those lyrics? Did I say radio enough?

Yes. Because we're on the radio. It's not cool. Who knew where to relate?

I had to start with that one. I mean, just know two ways about it.

There have been some classic synth wizards across most genres from new age to rock and roll.

Talk more in depth about your influences that may have shaped who you are today.

I mean, certainly when I was younger and trying to be all Mr. Classical Choppy Chop guy, Rick Wakeman from Yes was my dude.

Six wives of Henry VIII. I sat there with the sheet music and I just trudged through it.

Yeah, he was just the master of the flair. But, you know, probably more for my like synth aesthetic.

I would say that nine inch nails into Pesh mode are really more of my guiding principles.

I think nine inch nails in particular because like so many of the industrial synthy bands, you know, like all that.

I'm starting to know about it and all that kind of stuff got very almost like too weird that people couldn't understand the music.

Whereas nine inch nails stuck their roots in blues.

And so I think that's why they really kind of took off because it was like electronic music, but still bluesy.

Oh, that's a good description. Brian, we heard about the musician in you.

But you also work in the music and media industry with clutch sound.

You're recording studio and picture studios doing audio and visual media.

Talk about your day job.

I mean, is it pretty cool to be an entrepreneur and also do something that you love?

Also terrifying, you know, day in, day out. And that's ways about that.

During the winter things get a little slow.

Yeah, in this area, it's, for me, it's been a lot of advertising is really kind of what pays the bills.

So I, I both film the ads and, you know, edit them, but sometimes I'm a small part of a large crew.

Sometimes I'm a large part of a small crew.

But yeah, it's been nice because I've got to work with all of the famous sport stars around.

I work with Yannis all the time.

Oh, really?

You know, Aaron Rogers really well.

You know, like, like, he would help me with my fantasy football.

So I kind of miss him because I have not had a winning season since he's gone.

Oh, really?

Really?

Wow, fun with that.

Oh, my goodness.

Now, we were talking a little bit about it because he moved into the old smart studios building over there on East Washington.

What was it like really like moving in there with so much British history in that building?

The ghosts of that place, you know?

Wow.

We're really something.

And we, you know, of course, when you move in, all the equipment was gone.

So I had to get up and running quickly.

So at first, I wasn't thinking about anything about, you know, more than like,

I need to solder this patch bait now, right?

So we can get clients in here.

But then once it was up and running, boy, you know, all the bands that came in and all the stuff we did,

it was really, it was really fabulous.

But ultimately doing more of the bigger stuff that I do, the space was too small.

And there's no parking.

And there's, you know, we would have some big bands that would come in there.

Like Kaleo came in there, five finger death punch, some of these other bands.

Sure.

And, you know, they would show up with these huge semis full of stuff.

And we're, you know, we're going to put it on East Washington.

And, and then they're, you know, they're doing a New York load-in to, you know,

putting the stuff into carts and wheeling it through.

And there was no ramp.

And, yeah, now I have a garage door that opens up and I pull the cart and the trucks in.

That makes sense.

Because, you know, that building was in a strange place there on East Washington.

In fact, I remember my memory of the smart studios building was in 1996 when East Washington flooded.

And I remember walking into smart studios opening up their basement door.

And water was up to the top of the basement stairs.

And we were all standing there thinking, like, do you know what's in this basement?

A lot of master tapes and old equipment.

It was, it was really tough.

But keeping the water out of that basement was a never-ending battle.

And I've had many conversations with Nakeda who owns the building now.

And she's running an Airbnb out of there.

Yeah, right.

She still has those problems, yeah.

Yeah, probably all those ghosts.

All the ghosts, yeah.

Well, let's get back to live music from the man city presented by the Aaron Weber group.

The next song you have for us tonight is called Not For Sure.

Is this a song about sewing doubt?

Um, it's more of my, yeah, my own doubt.

I'm not trying to sew doubt in anyone else.

It's more in my own head.

You know, as a single guy in the dating world, it's just the,

this one's, you know, sometimes you're, you're dating a girl and you're like,

oh, I'm not, I'm not so sure about this one.

You know, so yeah, it's about my, my own doubt in my own head.

Interesting.

Oh, let's check it out.

This is Not For Sure.

You're listening to Play Machine live from the man city on Max Ink Radio.

We're really hard to read.

And I'm on that new season rain.

Had me begging please, I'm in a rush to go nowhere.

Where do I stand?

What is this all about?

I can only imagine

That's where the trouble starts.

You won't answer any questions.

That's why I'm not sure.

It had me take the weight.

After all those pointless dates.

Had me begging please, please, please, please.

Where do I stand?

What is this all about?

I can only imagine

That's where the trouble starts.

You won't answer any questions.

That's why I'm not sure.

Had me going nights.

And I don't want to fight about it.

Had me begging please, I'm in a rush to go nowhere.

That's why I'm not sure.

Never be mad, never be mad.

Totally cool.

I love this.

One of the things that I'm really liking

is when I listen to electronic music and stuff.

Often it's a drum machine.

There's no drum machine tonight.

He is not a drum machine.

He is a drum machine.

In the play machine sense.

That's pretty cool.

I really love that part.

I play machine as a jewel.

And on the other side of the glass tonight,

let's give the drummer some.

It's the hardest-working drummer in Madison.

Maybe anywhere.

Joey B. Banks.

Hello.

He's got the microphone now.

I'm going to give you a little for our listeners.

Joey, you marched with the Madison Scouts around the world

when you're 13 countless bands over the years.

And currently in more than five bands, I think.

Two-time Grammy nominated.

Inducted into the Madison Area Music Association Hall of Fame.

A teacher and a founder of Blackstar Drumline.

I think that's a pretty good amount of your stuff.

But only really small.

Joey, how did you get started playing drums?

How old were you and what's your backstory?

I started drumming when I was six years old.

And I was really just hitting around on pots and pans

and stuff.

And my grandmother bought me a drum kit when I was six.

And I started then.

But I really, really started to learn how to drum through drum core,

through the Madison Junior Scouts.

When I turned nine, I joined the Madison Junior Scouts.

At the time, I didn't know.

I was like part of a legacy.

My grandmother just dropped me off at the Coliseum in the middle of June.

And it's hot summer day.

And she's like, you're going to march in drum core.

And I didn't know at the time.

But her brother was the very first drum major for the Madison Scouts.

Wow.

In 1938.

So I was kind of born into the activity

and found out later that the host of people

from the South Side participated

in the Madison Scouts over the years.

Some relatives.

But just a lot of Madisonians.

It was used to be like almost 100% Madison people

that marched in the core.

And then it slowly,

just slowly went down and then they moved out of Madison.

And now there's no drum core.

So in 2008, I just kind of

think felt like we needed to have

something fill that void.

And that's kind of how the birth

of Black Star Drumline kind of came up.

Wow. That's cool.

I've never heard that story before.

Now, you also were hanging out

with Clyde Stubblefield a lot

from a young kid.

And Clyde Stubblefield's influence on you.

Young, late talk about that a little bit.

Probably the first really big like push influence

to be a drummer was from him.

And that was, you know,

meeting him for the first time at Club

to Wash 16 years old.

I was jamming with Paul Black

and the Monday,

Monday thing that was going on there at the time.

And Clyde heard me drum.

And it really got off the stage

and almost immediately approached me

and said, you know, dude,

you got something good, you know.

You sound really good.

You know, really didn't say like

anything technical or anything.

Just like keep doing what you're doing.

Just keep really just like right off the bat

was kind of inspiring.

And knowing who that who he was,

you know, I really kind of took it

to heart. It was really, really the first

really big push to want to be a drummer.

And that's actually the same year

that I became a professional drummer

in Madison with Charlie Brooks.

That's 16 years of sophomore

at LaFallet High School.

And it just started.

And I kind of circulated

around the jams in Madison.

So Chris Bank and Robert J.

at Morgan's back in the day was a really big one.

And then the Club to Wash Jam on Mondays,

the Blue Monday Jam,

with Paul Black and,

you know, that crew of people.

So, but yeah, Clyde was a huge influence.

And then, you know, obviously,

I'm very good friends.

Another step to that,

another part of that process was 2002

when he got the bladder cancer.

I became a substitute drummer for him.

And started playing a lot

of the funky Monday shows

and learning all that rap

and learning all that music

and hanging out.

But, yeah, we became good friends

and we came bandmates

and, you know, kind of, you know,

the story better than anybody.

I was going to say, you know,

one thing that struck me, though,

is that that was exactly true.

Clyde always lifted young people up.

He always kind of spotted them out

and recognized that and always lifted them up.

And like you said,

he didn't have any technical

things to necessarily tell you.

But just him kind of telling you,

you know, hey, you know,

even you do that on your own.

You do that really good.

And you're like, wow, are you kidding?

Of course, right?

I mean, he's, you know,

a founding father

of two genres, basically.

And, you know, at that time, you know,

his sample presence

is drumming his samples

that the funky drummer sample

was really just starting to hit.

Like, public enemy was just starting to

come out on like 82, 83

and he was on that album.

But now it's much more widely known

and his influence on music,

hence, you know,

the movie that my son is producing about him.

That's right.

Give the drummer some.

Well, hey, let's get back to live music

from the man city with play machine

presented by the Aaron Weber group.

The next song you have for us today is called,

I will haunt you.

Is this a song about the ghost in the green room

at the gamma radar?

Oh, man.

No, it's, it's not about that.

It's just, um,

it's, it's more about there's,

there's some songs that,

that people don't necessarily sing

but they kind of talk through it.

Yeah. And I always thought that was kind of creepy.

And I kind of wanted to do one like that.

So that was what I,

what I wrote first was the titles

because that's what I wanted to have happen.

All right. Well, let's check it out.

You're listening to the live from the man city

with play machine. This is, I will haunt you.

I will haunt you.

Just a chance that I,

and I get it right,

you'll get it too.

And just a chance that I,

and I get it right,

you'll get it too.

So here it is.

That thing we've all been waiting for.

The one where I'll lay it out.

Every single word.

That's like the name.

If I say it now,

he knows now.

I think you might just get,

get what makes sense.

And that word is America.

I mean it's,

because it's important to,

right.

Just a chance that I,

get it right,

you'll get it too.

Just a chance that I,

get it right,

you'll get it too.

It's staring at you right in the face.

Yeah, could you see it?

I warned you.

All of you.

Because it's in a song like this

that's how you gotta say stuff, right?

You know.

Just a chance that I,

get it right, you'll get it too.

It's staring at you right,

you'll get it too.

If I say it now,

he knows now.

I think you might just get,

get what makes sense.

And that word is America.

It's like I need it,

and nothing should be said.

It's like I need it.

Yeah.

Ah, there it was.

We did it.

The things that I was supposed to say and I did.

I said it totally.

Because it's every single word.

Every single word.

I said like I mean it.

I said it totally.

I said like I mean it.

I said it totally.

Play machine.

This is live from the mad city.

You're listening to Maxinc radio.

We will be right back.

You found Wisconsin's local music authority.

This is Maxinc radio.

We are local music.

Welcome back to live from the mad city.

I'm rocker here with Jane in the control room.

Let's get back with play machine.

You guys are already in a lot of bands.

Joy, you're in a million bands.

How did play machine form?

I was doing a solo album.

And Joey was in the studio working with some other band.

And I was just playing them some of the cuts.

And he was like, yeah, I want to play drums with that.

And so I was like, okay, so I finished that solo record.

And we played some shows.

And then we started a new record.

And yeah, here we are.

There you are.

Well, the next song you have for us tonight is called

Forfeiture Grind.

Let's just get right into it.

I think I'll find another way, another day.

Left it open for me to find the way.

Here I go.

I won't try anymore.

Sometimes I think maybe you will never mind.

Once again, I'm out of my place.

Greening softlet tried to set some pace.

I won't try anymore.

I won't try to be bad.

Don't know.

It has were wires that red wires grow from her head.

Her self-electric hair and she's charged from dissident.

Disconnect the ground and found a compliment.

I always loved you from the moment that we met.

Here I go.

I won't try anymore.

Sometimes I think maybe you will never mind.

Once again, I'm out of my place.

Greening softlet tried to set some pace.

I won't try anymore.

I won't try to be bad.

Don't know.

So here I go.

Greening softlet tried to set some pace.

I won't try anymore.

I won't try to be bad.

Don't know.

Yeah.

Play machine live from the Mad City here on Maxing Radio.

It's Sunday June 21st.

You guys are playing the Memorial Union Terrace and doing a double time

for Make Music Madison Festival and you'll be playing with your band Play

Machine and leading Blackstar Drumline Joey.

That's a special place to play.

And Drum Machine, the Drumline and Play Machine get to play the same night.

Same day.

Actually, it's a Sunday.

It's Father's Day.

It's a great place to play.

Yeah, with the backdrop of the link there.

Yeah, we're going to do a little set there.

Blackstar Drumline is going to perform,

panchromatic steel is going to perform.

Oh, cool.

And this time I need to concentrate a little better

because last time we played there,

I kept looking back and I was like,

oh, look at the pretty sailboats.

I was like, oh, right, we're playing songs.

I have to say words.

Brian is a sailor.

He likes to hit the legs with the windsurfing.

But yeah, it's pretty cool.

We've been doing it for like the last four or five years.

For this event.

And it's cool that the memorialing and the what people

Sean Michael Dargen.

Yeah.

SMD.

For booking us for that every year.

And yeah, yeah, it's going to be fun.

So let's get back to live music from the Matt City

with Play Machine presented by the Aaron Weber group.

The next song you have for us tonight is called

Me Sound Song.

I've been pronouncing this like on air for weeks now.

I've had to correct it every time.

Tell us about this song before you play.

It's a style of filmmaking.

It kind of means like what the camera sees.

Yeah.

It means like a set place.

Like you don't believe it's real.

We know that it's being filmed, that it's fake,

but it's put together.

It's built up.

Wow.

Like so many relationships.

Alright, let's take it out.

This is Play Machine.

You're listening to Live From the Man City on Maxing Radio.

You're going all over the room.

It's satisfying to know that you're going all over the room.

I'm still alive.

You left me in pieces.

Still your moves I never did.

I'm looking through you.

You're a ghost.

I'm looking through you.

You're a ghost.

We ride through you.

Think I'm playing.

Got you at every turn.

I'm satisfying.

Know that you're going to learn.

I'm still alive.

You left me in pieces.

Still your moves I never did.

You're going all over the room.

I'm looking through you.

You're a ghost.

I'm looking through you.

You're a ghost.

I'm looking through you.

You're a ghost.

I'm looking through you.

You're a ghost.

I'm looking through you.

You're a ghost.

I'm not done with you yet.

You're a ghost.

I'm not done.

Wow.

Play machine.

You're listening live from the mad city on Maxing Radio.

Hey, what comes first?

Lyric, riff or beat?

I'd say a lot of songs come together differently.

And certainly since I started writing with Joey, I've changed things.

And there's a lot more drum breaks in my songs now.

I suppose that happens with Joey back there.

Yeah, for sure.

I actually missed the question because I was switching headphones.

I said, what comes first, Lyric's concept or beat?

That's a good question.

I mean, I think sometimes things are driven from the beat and shake get reshaped because a lot of these songs started out kind of as a template already kind of form, but they changed as I kind of melded into

the project, some things.

Like you said, he added more drum breaks and things.

It's just a lot more you can do with an acoustic kit.

It's kind of a hybrid kit.

Obviously, it's electronics over here.

Right.

And he's going on.

Yeah.

Lots going on.

But yeah, that's the fun part of it.

Now, the Gameraikers.

What's your Gameraikers?

We don't want to slander anybody or anything.

But they had some sound issues that were already epic.

And it made it as impossible for us to finish our set.

I see.

Oh, I thought, in short, I thought maybe it was part of the ghost, you know, coming up.

Maybe that's what it was.

It could have been a great note.

It could have been the ghost.

It was a note that kept repeating through our songs.

And nobody could explain it, right?

Like, I'd hit a bass drum in it which just can.

Yeah.

We just like, do that.

That's happened here, believe it or not.

Brian, listen, Joey B. Banks.

Thank you so much for coming down and performing your music for us tonight.

We really appreciate it.

How do we keep up with Play Machine Online with your shows and the music and downloads and stuff like that?

We have a Facebook group Play Machine.

And we also have a YouTube channel where there's a pretty cool video of us playing it.

Yeah.

But yeah, currently our Facebook page is the best place to get the news.

And we've got an album coming out very soon within the next four weeks, I promise.

Yeah, you're going to put out vinyl.

We are not.

No vinyl.

Just releasing singles and stuff.

Wait, wait, wait.

Oh, vinyl.

I know, vinyl.

We just got one in the mail.

Right?

We just got one in the mail from a band.

It was on like a green.

We can just do a hundred copies.

That's all for a thousand copies.

I did it.

I had to have to have a cut by it.

Noim and Lee.

I had to send it to Europe and be a whole thing.

Oh, boy.

Wow.

Hey, you know, we have time for one more song tonight.

And this song is called Blast.

Is this song about criticism or exposure?

I'm going to say that it's exactly what I want to say to you right now, my friend.

It's been a blast being on the show.

It's been a blast.

Exactly what the song is about.

It's about, well, it's about online dating.

But it's like what you say to somebody when it goes well, right?

I had a blast.

Ah, I see.

I had a blast.

Hey, well, let's check it out.

This is Play Machine.

I had a blast.

You're listening to Live from the Mad City on Maxing Radio.

Oh, yeah.

Hmm, I like the bio.

Hmm, I like that picture.

Yeah, I like the fact that she travels, too.

Yeah, she's a Sagittarius.

Hmm, I'm going to swipe right.

I like beginnings.

Not so much the ends.

One, one, one, one, one, two, agree.

Tell me a secret.

And I'll tell you mine.

Not through text.

And we take this offline.

All of the time.

And can we take this offline?

All of the time.

And can we take this offline?

I'll give you what you want.

But you got to say it.

I'll make you laugh and cry.

And we'll have a blast.

I'll tell you what you want.

And I'll give you what you need.

I'll make you laugh and cry.

And we'll have a blast.

Send me your picture.

And I'll send you mine.

I will stare at it all the time.

I'll stare at it all the time.

I had a blast with you, and I know I did too.

So why don't we, why don't we continue?

I had a blast with you, and I know I did too.

So why don't we, why don't we continue?

Yeah, blast.

That's right.

Dancing in the studio, that's what I like to see.

That was a great song.

Play machine, live from the mad city on Maxing Gradyo, that was totally awesome.

Just amazing.

Yeah, phenomenal.

How can just two guys make all this noise?

Well, you know, there's this like kind of computer unit.

What is that over high?

It is an overheim synthesizer.

Yeah.

Yeah, she's my girl.

I mean, wow.

An overheim and Joey back there has his full drum set plus electronics of a pad.

I mean, you guys brought it all tonight, and just two guys.

That was totally amazing.

What, Joey, you're in a million bands.

You got some other shows coming up with it.

Yeah.

You want to talk about Quay?

I got a crazy May coming up.

It's a, it's a Burnells filled May.

Yeah.

But actually playing the Jazz for Justice benefit at Atwood Music Hall with Rare Element

on Thursday.

Oh, yeah.

And then, um, and there's a lot of Clyde's double few music and old hits, right?

Right.

Um, yeah.

I mean, no, they don't really, they do like instrumental jazz funk.

Uh-huh.

Concept.

It's pretty funky.

It's pretty horn driven.

The horns are great.

Oh, yeah.

So it's a horn.

It's a funky horn driven funk band.

Nice.

Uh, this Friday, uh, uh, uh, honor among thieves are playing.

Nice.

At Atwood for a benefit.

So two days at Atwood and then Burnells with, uh, automatic lover.

Wow.

On the second.

So that's the next three shows for me.

But you can check me out.

My, my website, joybanks.com.

I got my full schedule on there.

If you're interested in what I'm doing, check it out.

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