The AG Trump Can’t Stop: Josh Kaul on His Third Term

This is about upholding the rule of law.

It's about upholding our Constitution.

Donald Trump is violating it.

You know, we have not just joined all these cases.

We keep winning case after case after case.

And I would love to say it's because we've got the greatest lawyers in the history of the world and we're lucky to have a lot of great lawyers working on these cases.

But the reality is we keep winning time after time because the Trump administration is blatantly violating the law and the Constitution.

Hello and welcome to the Dr. Kristen Lyderly Show.

I'm Dr. Kristen Lyderly and today I am sitting down with Wisconsin Attorney General Josh Coll.

He has been in over 50 lawsuits against the Trump administration.

He's prosecuted the fake electors who tried to overturn Wisconsin's 2020 election and he's fought for and won back tens of millions of dollars for the state when the federal government tried to take it away.

And now he's running for a third term.

So we're going to talk about what it actually takes to hold this office in a moment like this one.

What's at stake for Wisconsinites in November and why this race matters so much more than most people understand.

And since we're deep into football season and the Brewers are killing it right now, you are definitely going to want to stick around until the end because I'm going to bust out a little sports talk if you're up for it, Mr. Attorney General.

Sure.

All right.

Welcome, Josh Coff.

Thanks for being here.

Thanks for having me.

Yes, it's good to be here.

Thanks for having me on the program.

We are now over 60 lawsuits against the Trump administration.

The number keeps growing.

Wow.

So we are keeping busy, but looking forward to talking about the AG's race and potentially also the upcoming football season.

Yes.

And 60 lawsuits really highlights why this job is so important.

And we're going to get into that in our conversation.

But this is where the Trump administration is doing their thing.

This is how he is ruling.

And that's why we need a strong attorney general here in Wisconsin.

So for people who may not be familiar with you, who is Josh Call?

Where does he come from and how did he get here?

Well, I grew up in Oshkosh in Fond du Lac, and I went to public schools.

I graduated from what was then the public high school in Fond du Lac, a rich high school.

I was the fullback on the football team.

I scored one touchdown.

It was from one yard out, so don't get too excited about that.

But I'm a former federal prosecutor.

I worked in Baltimore where I prosecuted gang members, drug traffickers, and murderers.

I've also worked to protect voting rights, challenging laws that restricted access to voting.

And I'm now in my second term as AG, running for a third term.

I'm also a dad and a husband.

And there are a lot of issues that impact Wisconsinites that are deeply important to me.

I'm proud to be able to work on them as an attorney general.

I remember when we talked, gosh, it's been over a year ago.

And we were, you were considering maybe writing for governor and you were trying to weigh like, what is the best thing for me?

What is the best thing for the state?

What is the best thing for my family?

How did you decide to go this path instead of that path?

It's something I thought about seriously.

There's a lot of great stuff that a governor can do for a state.

What I'm really motivated by and the work that I do is the impact that I'm able to have and of course a governor can have.

a lot of impact.

But as AG, I'm also able to have a lot of impact.

I think it's really critical right now that we have strong AGs, in part because it's so important to stand up to the lawlessness from the federal government.

So that was one of the factors.

There were several.

Family consideration certainly played a role as well.

And I'm optimistic that we are going to

Elect a governor at the time we were having that conversation.

We didn't know who the nominee would be now Democratic nominee is David Crowley and I'm you know, I'm optimistic that he's gonna do well and and confident that he will be a strong governor for Wisconsin

It has been a roller coaster, that's for sure.

But I love seeing this unity tour and just the diversity of the executive slate as they're going all around the state.

It is really exciting to have the potential to have the representation that we do in Madison.

But let's go back to these over 60 cases that you have prosecuted against the Trump administration.

Because I don't think it gets enough press.

60's a lot.

Which one or ones are you most proud of?

You know, there are so many that are important.

It's hard to focus.

But what I will do is talk about some categories of cases.

One of the things that we've seen throughout this administration since Donald Trump took office is a disregard for the law, really, and a willingness to take actions unilaterally by the executive branch.

that are often contrary to what Congress has said the law is.

And one place we see that a lot is with these massive cuts to funding for really critical programs.

Elon Musk, you know, with Doge running around, Washington cutting programs he knew little about is sort of the most significant example of this or the most prominent one.

But this has continued even post.

Musk and post the work that he has done.

And so there have been illegal conditions put on federal funds.

There have been cuts or there have been freezes to really critical funding.

We're talking about things like funding for education, including mental health programs in schools, funding for disaster relief and mitigation, funding for the AmeriCorps program, for transportation, and for many other really important purposes, whether it's public health.

Or you know other other important programs that communities rely on so this is not the kind of stuff that You know you hear Republicans attacking as waste and abuse This is critical programs that that we're talking about that communities rely upon and Wisconsin communities would be significantly harmed if we weren't fighting back one of the things that's important to note in these cases is in a lot of the cases if your state is not a part of the lawsuit You don't get the relief from the case and so these cuts

that the administration has threatened, Wisconsin wouldn't necessarily benefit if we weren't part of the suit challenging some of those cuts.

And so if you've got a Republican AG who's not willing to stand up to Donald Trump, that could leave your state subject to these unlawful cuts that the Trump administration is trying to make.

And that really underlines the importance of having a Democratic AG in these terrible times.

Yeah, and you asked about the types of cases.

It's not just...

funding cases, so those are significant.

There have been attacks on the Affordable Care Act in ways that would lead to fewer people having coverage and also the cost of coverage going up.

There was the effort to restrict birthright citizenship that went to the Supreme Court.

And then there have been efforts to invade people's privacy by demanding confidential data from states and then includes data on the voter rolls.

CDL information, commercial driver's license information, SNAP applicant information, Medicaid applicant information.

So what the federal government is trying to do is significantly increase its control over the states and over our communities.

And if you want Donald Trump to have even broader control over the state of Wisconsin, then you want somebody who isn't going to stand up to him, I think.

My opponent, Eric Tony, would fit that bill well.

If you want to protect the interests of our communities, protect our ability to govern ourselves locally and at the state level, having a Democratic AG who's going to stand up and uphold the rule of law is critical.

And that's the last important piece of this.

In addition to the practical consequences of this, this is about upholding the rule of law.

It's about upholding our Constitution.

Donald Trump is violating it.

We have not just joined all these cases.

We keep winning case after case after case.

And I would love to say it's because we've got the greatest lawyers in the history of the world and we're lucky to have a lot of great lawyers working on these cases.

But the reality is we keep winning time after time because the Trump administration is blatantly violating the law and the

Constitution.

Unserious.

And for people like us who are serious professionals who actually care about our jobs and care about the people that we serve, it's unbelievable to look at what Elon Musk has done and what the administration continues to do by just literally just crumbling up programs and throwing them away without any thought.

Programs that we have fought hard for and built and sustained over time.

And remember, these are programs that were passed into law by Congress and signed into law by a president.

So this is the law.

Imagine if a program, my administration was administering, you can pick any number of programs.

I just decided one day I woke up and said, you know what, we're just going to stop doing that, even though the legislature has passed it and the governor has signed it in law.

The legislature would rightly be deeply upset that we were refusing to execute the law.

That's what I have taken a duty to do.

have a duty to do.

And likewise, the Trump administration has an obligation to ensure that our laws are faithfully executed.

Absolutely.

And one really important thing that you've done recently is you brought felony charges against the fake electors who tried to hand Wisconsin's 2020 electoral votes to Donald Trump.

That case is still pending.

But in this situation, what does accountability actually look like and why does it matter that it comes from you here at the state level?

Yeah, well, this is an ongoing criminal case so I can't say much about it but what's publicly available information is that there are three people who have been charged in connection with alleged actions relating to the alleged fake-elect or scheme.

That case is making its way through the court system and you know ultimately that case will be decided in court.

So our role as an agency that

involved in enforcing the laws to litigate those cases through the court system.

It's critical that we consistently and even handily enforce and apply the law and that's what we're doing here as we do in other cases as well.

It's one that's gotten a lot of attention and people are watching very closely.

So Eric Tony, your opponent, has said that he wouldn't rule out prosecuting abortion cases even in cases of rape or incest.

You have made the opposite pledge, and I know this one personally because you and I were together on call versus Romansky, the case that brought abortion back to Wisconsin.

For somebody deciding who to vote for based specifically on this issue alone, what actually happens differently to real people in Wisconsin, depending on who wins this race in November?

Well, on reproductive freedom, there's a very stark choice in this election.

You know, going back to the 22 race, this is a rematch, by the way.

Eric Tony, who's running for AG, ran against me in 2022.

And one of the big issues in that election was enforcement of the abortion law.

And just to take folks back, in 2022, that's the year that the Supreme Court overruled Roe v Wade.

And there was then a discussion about whether this law that dates back to the mid 19th century would be enforced in Wisconsin, what the law even was.

So four days after Roe was decided, Governor Evers and I announced a lawsuit challenging enforcement of that law, which a lot of people understood to be a near total ban on abortion in the state of Wisconsin with no exceptions for rape or incest.

And you can see how Eric Tony and I responded to that differently.

I brought that lawsuit.

We then updated it later.

Eric Tony, on the other hand, attacked that lawsuit.

He called it a farce and a political stunt.

He also said it should be dismissed.

One of the benefits of a rematch is you can see how those things turned out.

And what ultimately happened was our state Supreme Court agreed with the position that we took and found that the law was not enforceable in Wisconsin.

And so Eric Tony not only was wrong, but he was attacking me in the position he was wrong on.

He said he would enforce that law, which again, our Supreme Court has now made clear is not enforceable.

And he went beyond that.

He talked about giving the attorney general

the authority to directly prosecute under that statute.

He raised the possibility of having DAs in neighboring counties enforce that law.

So there's a very stark contrast in terms of where we stand.

Now, in Wisconsin, we do have the Supreme Court ruling that ensures that that 1849 law can't be enforced for now.

But a couple of things I'll say.

First, that's a ruling about a state law.

And so if we were to have

a legislature and a governor who were doing to act new restrictions on abortion, that could change the status of things.

Obviously, as we saw with Roe v. Wade, a precedent that's in place doesn't necessarily stand forever and could be reversed in the future.

Not, you know, I'm optimistic about our current Supreme Court, state Supreme Court, but, you know, over time that could change.

And then the last thing, and what's really critical right now, I think, to highlight is we have an administration in D.C.

that is absolutely attempting to restrict access to abortion rights.

The new U.S.

Attorney General recently had a conversation with an anti-abortion group.

where he, I forget exactly how he phrased it, but suggested he was going to further work to restrict access to abortion.

There could very well be efforts to restrict access to medication abortion.

The bottom line is having people in offices like the AG's office who are going to fight for reproductive freedom, it has been important in Wisconsin, certainly in prior years, and if you want reproductive freedom protected, there's a clear choice in this race.

I have to say as an OBGYN doctor and a mom and a woman and someone who really cares about my community, abortion is health care.

You can't legislate it out of health care.

So I'm incredibly grateful to you for your commitment to the women and families of Wisconsin on this issue.

I should add too.

This Republican ticket is really concerning because not only do you have those positions I just mentioned from Eric Tony, you've also got Tom Tiffany who cosponsored a six-week abortion ban, a national abortion ban.

And so if this Republican ticket gets elected with a Republican majority, there's a real significant possibility we're going to see a major rollback on reproductive freedom in Wisconsin.

Yeah, a six-week abortion ban without exceptions for rape or incest.

And the lieutenant governor on the Republican side actually was a surprise.

He wasn't the establishment pick, but he was the pick of the anti-abortion coalition.

So this is a very dangerous ticket when it comes to reproductive rights.

And I think we're going to see lots more of that in the months to come.

Let's talk a little bit more about Eric Tony, because there's something else that I think is very interesting here.

He wants to be Wisconsin's top cop, but he can't even keep the peace in his own county.

He's built his entire campaign on public safety over politics, so let's look at his safety record.

Since the last time voters chose between the two of you, statewide violent crime is

down roughly 20% under your watch.

But in Eric Tony's own backyard, Fond du Lac County, after 13 years as the DA, it's up by about the same amount.

So is public safety actually Eric Tony's strength or do the numbers tell a different story?

Well, I think the numbers speak for themselves, first of all.

Since from 2022 to 2025, you just talked about the change we've had statewide where we're making progress in violent crime versus what's happened in Fond du Lac County where they're going backwards.

Last year, 2025, we had the lowest number of violent crimes that we've had in the state of Wisconsin since 2011.

But in Fond du Lac County, on the other hand, in 2025, they had the second highest number of violent crimes they've had in decades.

And so I think those numbers speak for themselves.

But I also want to talk about some of what we've been doing on public safety at the State Department of Justice.

You know, a significant issue when I first ran for Attorney General was...

the issue of untested sexual assault kits.

And I fought to reform sexual assault kit laws in Wisconsin and worked and ultimately got legislation passed through the Republican-led legislature that's going to help ensure that there's not a future backlog of untested sexual assault kits.

And we've also worked to tackle the opioid epidemic and help to secure over $800 million that's coming to Wisconsin.

The vast majority of those funds will go to communities

across the state and are helping to fight that epidemic, some of which are already making an impact to this day.

From 2023 to 2024, there was a reduction of over 40% in...

opioid overdose deaths in Wisconsin.

And so, you know, at the Department of Justice, we investigate and prosecute some of the most serious criminal offenses in Wisconsin.

And the work that is happening across the state, not just by Wisconsin DOJ certainly, but by lots of folks who are working to make our community safer, certainly including our law enforcement agencies, it is having an impact.

We are seeing progress being made.

but there's a different story in Fond du Lac County where Eric Tony is DA and yet he is now seeking higher office despite that.

Yeah and Fond du Lac County means something to you having grown up there to me that's where my grandparents are from and it's also where you scored your one and only touchdown so let's talk about that

a little bit.

No I think it was a home game I don't remember but yes like I said it was it was from one yard out but it counts as a touchdown all the same.

It does.

But think about it.

You were a fullback for the Fondie Cardinals.

Were they called the Fondie Cardinals back

then?

Yes.

Good Rich Cardinals, the Fondie Cardinals.

And you spent your career on the football team blocking so that other people could make progress.

And every once in a while, you got a big score.

That's kind of what your job is like now, isn't it?

Yeah.

You know, it's funny you mentioned that because David Crowley has been analogizing.

football to politics.

They both can be full contact sports.

A big part of what we do is we uphold the law, uphold the rule of law, uphold the constitution.

Like you said early on, this is not always the race that gets the most attention.

Certainly there are higher profile races and the governor's race, as it should, is going to get a lot of attention this year.

But it's also a really important race because the stakes, whether it's public safety or whether it's standing up to the federal government or some other issues that I'm sure we'll still talk about, like protecting our natural resources and standing up to fight for affordability, those issues are directly impacted by the work that the Wisconsin Department of Justice does.

Yeah, let's talk about natural resources.

That's something that you often don't put together.

What does the Attorney General have to do with that very important foundational piece of Wisconsin?

Well, the the AG plays a role in protecting our environment in actually a few different ways.

One is we enforce environmental laws.

DNR does a lot of cases and sort of routine cases would go to DNR.

But when there are significant violations, say for example, there's

significant PFAS contamination in a community.

That would that often comes to our office for enforcement action.

And so we have worked to ensure that polluters are being held accountable and that if there is pollution in our environment that it's the polluters who are working to clean things up.

Secondly, we defend state laws when they're challenged.

There have been efforts to weaken environmental laws in Wisconsin and we have defended against those and had some success.

Earlier in my time as AG, one big issue had to do with

whether when there were high-capacity wells that were being put in place, whether you considered the cumulative impacts on nearby waters when that was happening, and we helped confirm through arguments before the state supreme court that you did have to consider the broader impacts of high-capacity wells.

And then we've also been doing a lot in some of these cases against the Trump administration to stand up to their attacks on environmental regulations.

The Trump administration has been terrible for environmental protection.

But fortunately, the work that we've done alongside other Democratic AGs has helped hold the line and limit the harm they've been able to do.

A lot of that remains to play out in court still, but we're gonna keep fighting back and I'm optimistic we're gonna have a lot of success because once again, we see the administration

violently, blatantly violating the law.

Another hot topic that touches on the environmental piece is data centers.

What does your role at the DOJ have to do with this very spicy topic that frankly bridges both political sides?

There are a couple of things.

Right now, you know, we do enforce our environmental laws.

And so if there isn't a violation,

You want to have somebody as A.G.

who's serious about accountability and not afraid to stand up to powerful interests, which is another important topic and I think important contrast in this race.

What's the case right now though in Wisconsin is we really don't have much statewide regulation in place that relates to data centers.

It's the wild west out there and that's why you see data centers able to go to particular communities and sort of indicate if they can't get a deal there they're going to go

to a neighboring community.

I want to see Wisconsin put statewide standards in place that are going to ensure that if there are data centers that are built in Wisconsin that they are living up to high standards.

There was a bill proposed, Democratic Senator Jody Havish-Sinneken put this out there, but Republicans who lead the legislature didn't ultimately pass that bill in the last session.

So I'm hopeful that if David Crowley is elected governor one of the things we will see

Early in his administration is putting guardrails in place so that there are consistent rules so that there's a clear Standard in place if anybody is building a data center that would then also give us the ability to enforce those protections Because if we've got that authority and then there is for example an environmental violation that is specific to data center laws We could enforce it if they're doing something else that violates the laws that apply to data centers We can we can enforce it.

I think it's critical though that

that they, if there are data centers that they not harm the environment, that they not increase rates for rate payers, and that there's transparency in the process that's happening around the data centers that are being built.

And on top of that, that they are living up to their promises when it comes to high quality jobs that they're providing in communities.

So again, though, one of the issues here is not just about what the rules are, it's about having somebody who's going to enforce it, who's going to stand up for Wisconsinites.

And that, to me, is

a critical difference here between Tom Tiffany and Eric Tony.

And David Crowley and me, frankly, we are both, David and I are both committed to standing up for the best interests of the people of the state.

With Eric Tony and with Tom Tiffany, you've got folks who we can't count on to stand up to Donald Trump and we can't count on to stand up to special interests.

Yeah, well, they are just the mirror image of Donald Trump.

That's just what they represent.

But what you and David Crowley and the rest of the Democratic slate represent are the people of Wisconsin.

And when it comes to tough issues like data centers, this is not a bumper sticker issue.

It's not solved there with a moratorium or a yes or a no.

It is complex and it requires a lot of layers of leadership.

And that's why I'm so grateful to you, Attorney General Call, for everything that you've done over the past two cycles that you've served and

And just wishing you the best of luck as we approach November and this election cycle.

What else do you want the people of Wisconsin to know about you and your campaign?

Well, I guess I'll mention a couple things.

One is, you know, another really critical issue that we work on at the Department of Justice is protecting our voting rights.

And in 2020, there was an effort by Donald Trump to overturn the results of the election.

He and allies of his filed multiple lawsuits in Wisconsin.

My administration defended against those suits, and we won case after case.

And ultimately, the will of the voters was upheld in Wisconsin.

We are involved in a number of other cases involving voting laws in Wisconsin.

But to me, it's critical.

We've got somebody who is committed to protecting our free and fair elections and helping to ensure that they remain safe and secure.

Eric Tony, my opponent, supported Michael Gabelman's preposterous investigation into the 2020 election, which went so poorly that Robin Voss ultimately who launched the investigation ultimately said that Michael Gabelman was an embarrassment to the state of Wisconsin.

So that's another issue where there's a clear contrast.

On affordability, you know, this is an area where AGs have a real impact because one of the things we do is enforce our antitrust laws and so we have stood up to Ticketmaster, we stood up to prescription drug companies that we alleged conspired to raise prices.

We joined other states and the FTC in suing

John Deere and help to get a remedy that ensures that farmers can either repair their own farm equipment or go to independent repair shops to have repairs done.

We also work to hold scammers accountable.

And so these are issues that impact people's pocketbooks as well as these challenges against the federal government, like some suits we've brought against tariffs that the president has put in place.

As you talked about early on, this is an office that impacts people's lives in a lot of different ways.

And it's critical that we continue to have somebody there who's going to fight for Wisconsinites and put the best interests of the state first.

I don't think that everyday Wisconsinites realize the impact that you have had on our lives and that you will continue to have come November.

So thank you, Josh Call.

How can people find you on your socials and on your website?

Our website is joshcall.org, and you can find us online.

Our handle is joshcallwi.

Excellent.

Thanks for taking the time to hang out today.

Thanks for having me.

You bet.

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