Hey, good morning.
I'm Matt Rothschild and welcome to John and Gordy in the morning.
The guys are off this morning, but they'll be back this afternoon from two to five all across the Civic Media Radio Network.
So you can catch them then and they'll be here tomorrow morning too, back in the regular spot and doing double duty in the afternoon.
I don't know how the guys are managing that schedule, but better them than me.
For now, you got me, Matt Rothschild, my frequent guest, favorite co-host, Angela Lang, the executive director of Block.
Angela, how you doing this morning?
I'm good.
I'm super excited.
It's been such a long time since you and I have done this and I was very excited for it.
So yay.
Yeah, we've been guest hosting on and off over the past year on the Civic Media Radio Network when hosts are on vacation or ill.
But it's been a couple months.
So here we are thrilled to be here.
We've got a great show for everyone.
We have Tim Slecker of Busted Pencils on at 635.
And at 735, we have Deena Nina Martinez Rutherford, who's running for the assembly.
And the seat now held by Francesca Hong, who, of course, is running for governor.
On Tuesday, a couple of days ago, I was guest hosting, and we interviewed Juliana Bennett, who's also running for that seat.
So I wanted to make sure that I gave Dean Anina Martinez-Rutherford an opportunity to.
I've interviewed her before for my podcast, the Wisconsin Forward Podcast, on transgender rights.
She'd be the first transgender person elected to the state assembly.
So that's kind of neat.
In between these interviews we'll be talking birds as we always do in politics I'm saving a cool little poem for the very end of the show I gotta have some poetry and birds in every show that I'm on Also, we've got a little bit of this day in history We'll probably get to in this next half hour and I want to invite anyone who's listening right now in your car or in your kitchen
or in your bedroom, wherever you might be or office.
If you're an early bird like me, you can join by calling us at 608-879-8255.
That's 608.
You know that if you're here in Madison, 879-8255 here on WMDX, part of the Civic Media Radio Network.
Just a quick weather update.
It's not too bad out today.
It's cold, but in the teens, it's cloudy.
It's not going to get above the teens all day long, I don't think.
Not as icy as it was yesterday.
Yesterday was super icy on the roads.
Right.
That's Dom, our great engineer and producer here.
The drive-in was a relief compared to yesterday and the day before.
Tomorrow it's going to get just a little bit warmer, but then brutally cold for Saturday and Sunday.
You know, it's an old fashioned winter in Wisconsin.
We may not have many more like this.
So appreciate it for what it is and for what it was.
Angela, let's get to doing a little catching up.
I haven't talked with you for a bit.
I see that you're having your annual gala at block tomorrow.
Tell us about that.
Yeah, so we actually used to do end of the year holiday party.
And we were like, let's just go and rent out a local bar and just have fun and celebrate ourselves.
And then we turned five and we felt that we wanted to elevate our end of the year party a little bit.
And then we were like, let's do a gala.
And then we just didn't gala as ever since.
And our gala is not a typical gala.
And it's like, it's $100 a plate.
blah, blah, blah.
It's generally free.
Obviously, we will be accepting donations, but we just want to make sure that folks are able to come together, really talk about the year.
And, you know, for us, when we thought of a theme, we struggled to figure out what is the theme for this year.
And we're like, let's just kiss 2025 goodbye.
Let's just
do
kind of like a happy new year.
Let's go into 2026.
And what's special about this year is that we will be making a special announcement that
Things will be changing a little bit into the next year, but we're very excited.
We recorded a little announcement video that we're going to play at the gala tomorrow.
So if you aren't able to come to Milwaukee or not able to make our gala, we will be announcing that announcement on our social media as well.
You don't want to give us a preview hint, do you?
All I'll say is, um, one, I'm not going anywhere.
Um, but I am,
I was wondering about that.
I know people have been asked.
I'm like, Nope, I'm not going anywhere.
Um, but very excited for, um, just different opportunities for folks.
Um, and you know, maybe some new roles and some new models of how we do things.
Interesting.
If people are listening, uh, that's Angela Lang.
She's the executive director of block.
Do you want to explain, uh, what block is to those who aren't familiar with your organization?
Yeah, so we're a year round civic engagement organization that turned eight years old on Thanksgiving, which was very special.
It's also very weird to think that it's been eight years.
But for me, I was very frustrated not only at Trump being elected in 2016, but some of the narratives that came out.
It was if you people would have just voted the blame on the black community.
And that was enough to kind of light a fire and bring some folks into a room and create something that is different.
How do we have a year-round program in the black community where it's not just knocking on doors a couple of weeks or a couple of months before an election and then going home?
always amazes me the folks who blame black people in Milwaukee for not doing more or flipping the state democratic when
Black people around the country, this is Democrats blaming Democrats, blaming Black Democrats.
Black women is the most reliable, overwhelming 90% or more, 95% voting for Democrats.
And Black males who've gotten a lot of criticism too over the last little bit, you know, vote Democrat more than any other group, except Black women and they're right next to Jewish Americans too.
So I mean, it's just, these aren't the folks to blame.
Yeah.
I mean, that narrative is a tale as old as time, right?
And we've done as much as we could to try and still continue to do to really disrupt that narrative that, you know, we are doing work, but also we're taking care of our slice of the pie.
Wisconsin is a state that's not just Milwaukee.
So, you know, I think we've done a lot to try and take that narrative back and to really kind of peel back the layers too of just how difficult or it can be to vote, especially when we have all these
use like voter suppression laws and ways of making it confusing.
You add that on top of everything.
We do work in the most incarcerated zip code, which is heavily black.
And a lot of folks don't have their voting rights restored.
Or if they do, they may not know that they do because they think if they've ever been convicted of a felony, they can never vote again.
So there's just a lot of different challenges that we also have tried to highlight to kind of build a fuller picture of what it takes for black voters to show up sometimes.
I mean, the restoration of voting rights is a big issue.
A lot of people may have the misconception that once you get out of jail or prison in Wisconsin, you have the right to vote.
It's true in states like Illinois and, you know, at least half the states across the country, but here in Wisconsin, if you get...
released from WAPON, that doesn't mean you get to vote the next day.
A lot of people are on extended probation and parole.
And by an extended is a euphemism.
Sometimes that extension can be five, 10, 15 years.
So they've already served their time.
And yet they don't get their rights back.
So there's been an effort.
by many people in the legislature, or Democrats, to try to change that.
That hasn't gone through, because Republicans control the legislature.
But we're way behind on this issue of felon re-enfranchisement.
Yeah, I know.
There were some folks that were not even elected anymore, or at least in that particular seat that have been working on this.
I remember former state assembly rep.
Rep David Crawley and former state senator Lena Taylor, who is now a judge and David Crawley is now county executive.
They were proposing this kind of unlock the unlock the vote proposal that people's voting rights would be restored upon release.
And yeah, as you said, unfortunately, that hasn't really gone anywhere.
But it's been several cycles, several years that folks have talked about this.
And here we are still, unfortunately.
And it's a big number.
It's anywhere between 40,000 and 60,000 people who have already served their time.
but still can't vote here in Wisconsin.
So that's an issue that needs more work.
No, I also read Angela Lange that you were participating on a panel on International Human Rights Day or you're about to appear on that panel.
What's up with that?
Yeah, so that was on Sunday.
Milwaukee Anti-War Committee and a bunch of other partners got folks together to also kind of just like have a potluck.
And, you know, there was all sorts of different resource tables of different organizations.
There was a great keynote speaker talking about some of the immigration work and anti-ice work that they've been doing in Chicago.
oftentimes how scary that can be and you know talking about some of the scenarios that he had been in and then I was on a panel with several folks kind of just talking about how this idea of human rights is really playing into our work and so we all
I think what was a beautiful theme, we all didn't coordinate this, but a beautiful theme of all of the panelists was how much our fights are interconnected, whether it's reproductive justice, Palestine, ICE, being able to talk about the history of mass incarceration, kind of this idea of coming together and seeing that, yes, our fights may be
unique to our communities, but there is a broad overview of how there is a civil rights kind of in human rights violation with all of these different issues.
So it was really beautiful to kind of hear from folks working on different issues.
but really still tie it together of what do human rights mean for our communities.
And a question I thought was interesting, too, is how some folks, usually, namely the Trump administration and others, will kind of weaponize, oh, we're doing this to liberate a country, or we're doing this for the sake of human rights.
We're going to go bomb someone because they're committing human rights violations, and also how it's weaponized that.
this kind of idea of protecting human rights can be used to further actually do the opposite.
That's Angela Lang, Executive Director of Block.
She's my co-guest anchor today on John and Gordy's show.
I'm Matt Rothschild-Subban in there.
Of course, International Human Rights Day was yesterday, December 10th.
You mentioned David Crowley a second ago.
He's running for governor.
Mandela Barnes jumped in the race last week.
I'm just wondering what you make of this, especially since you know these candidates, you're friends with many of these candidates.
Does this put you in an uncomfortable spot?
You know, I got some difficult personal choices to make in the next few months.
And I hope everybody still loves me afterwards.
Yeah, no, I am friends with Mandela.
I'm friends with Crawley.
I'm friends with Fran.
I have good relationships with probably every candidate there on various levels.
Here's my kind of political answer is I do think it's healthy to have as much competition as possible.
I think that also people always kind of talk about and I've heard
Dan Schaefer mentioned this too, of like having a robust primary does really kind of sharpen that candidate.
Iron sharpens iron and being able to get to the details.
I know some folks are like, well, what's the difference?
There's so many candidates.
They're all doing the same thing.
They're all saying the same things.
You know, right now is when we get to kind of vote with our heart if there is, you know, something that is appealing to us about these candidates.
But I do think it's great to have a lot of different perspectives.
And I'm hoping that that allows for a really robust
and really engaging from a democracy level.
I see folks on social media very excited for some candidates and I think that's a good thing.
Yeah, primaries are important.
It's good batting practice too.
That was Angela Lange.
She's my co-host today.
She mentioned Dan Schaefer.
He, of course, is the political editor here at Civic Media and also the founder and the guy who runs the Recombobulation area.
Angela Lange writes occasionally for him prize winning editorials, I might add.
And she'll be back with me right after the break.
We're going to do a little this day in history.
Matt Rothschild sitting in for John and Gordy here on WMDX 92.7 FM here in Madison.
and we'll be right back.
No rest for the wicked that's for sure Trump's busy all day long all night long tweeting me all night long as usual I'm Matt Rothschild seven in here for John and Gordy, and I have a great guest co-host Angela Lang executive director of block And we are gonna do a little bit of this day in history
I want you to call her to jump in, if you want to jump in about anything on your mind, 608-879-8255 here on WMDX.
But yeah, I'm a history buff, studied some history in college, tried to keep up on history.
And so I like to look what happened at this date every time I'm on the show.
And I do hope you care.
Thank
you, Dom, for that bone
problem.
So here
are a few things I found.
Some of them are literary, like Grace Paley was born on this date in 1922, great short story writer and poet.
I found this one line that I wanted to share with you from Grace Paley.
She died in 2007.
We are in the hands.
It's still true today, more true today than when she said it.
We are in the hands of men whose power and wealth have separated them from the reality of daily life and from the imagination.
She added, we are right to be afraid.
Got to be afraid, but you know, got to act on that fear too.
Even though you're afraid.
And so there's that from Grace Paley.
Rita Moreno, the great actress from West Side Story, still alive, was born in 1931, and here's what she had to say.
It is through art that we will prevail and we will endure.
It lives on after us and defines us as people.
At this time, I do think it's important to reconnect with art and literature and poetry and music as a way to sustain our spirits, because
it's so
easy to get down, especially when we're isolated.
And she also added, I live in the moment.
The moment is the most important thing.
That's my entire philosophy, she said, make the best of the good moments.
I love Rita Moreno and her spirit and her wisdom.
Jim Harrison, a poet and a writer born on this day in 1937.
Here's a tease.
I'm going to end the show in the last segment with a really cool Jim Harrison poet.
So I just found, I found it too.
I have, I got a lot of books when I was editor at the Progressive Magazine, Matt Rothschild speaking here and publishers would spend, send books of poetry, hoping to get review copies.
And
so
I would just grab every poetry book that was sent.
So I had this little collection that I stole from the Progressive when I left.
And so I had this Jim Harrison book, new and collected poems.
And it's the very last poem in the book.
So I'll be reading that.
And then politically, it's always important to remember our history.
In 1941, on this date, the fascist powers that is Hitler's Germany and Mussolini's Italy declared war on the United States.
And Angela, this is the thing that really gets me.
Every family in America, practically.
has a father I had a father who fought against the Nazis or a grandfather or a
great
grandfather who fought against the Nazis or fought against the Japanese or fought against the Italian fascists and those members of our families are revered for their service for fighting fascism and yet here we have people who are adoring
This fascist leader we have here in the United States.
It's such cognitive dissonance for me I don't know how people are able to hold both of those thoughts together in their minds
It's the amount of mental gymnastics that folks do to excuse things away especially just looking at some of the commentary of you know Trump's health and falling asleep and things like that Interesting how they're excusing that type of stuff away when just a few months ago.
They were doing or a year ago.
They were doing the
They were not having as much grace to President Biden.
They were doing the
Sleepy Joe stuff.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so it's just, for me, it's like the amount of mental gymnastics that folks have to do to defend this man.
And I think that there's this like cult of personality where this man could do no wrong in their eyes in some ways, unfortunately.
And it's got to be hard for folks to reconcile all that.
Yeah, it's very difficult for me to grab onto it.
We have a caller, though, one of my favorite callers, Joe from Madison is on the line.
You two can call in at 608-879-8255, but let's hear what Joe from Madison has to say.
Great start to the show and really important to remember, you know, these days in history, my father and all my uncles fought in World War II.
That was just part of their identity and part of the identity of so many men from that era.
And I think it must be kind of heartbreaking for some of them to look and see this, just kind of heartbreaking.
I wanted to mention two things that, and they actually play into the, make the most of the moment that you've got.
I just want to give a small update.
You are so wonderful with birds, Matt, and you had talked about the tundra swans migrating, and I wanted to mention they're still here, people, and I can tell you that because they make a lot of noise at night, and they talk to each other and let each other know we're going to be going, and they apparently need to keep good flock formation as they take off.
but I'm telling you it was a noisy night back here and you can you can hear these birds and see these birds at Yehera Place Park in Madison for Lake Minona and then over by Tenney Park for Lake Mendota.
So to make the most of the moment I know it's cold but boy it's really worth going out to see especially because you can hear them which is
Not a sight to behold an oral experience to behold so I wanted to mention that and then you know Thank you again for your interview with Melissa Agart.
She you've mentioned in there that she has a goal She's our county exec and she had mentioned that she has a goal to visit all of the parks the 25 Madison parks and I heard Dane County parks great goal And I guess I would ask Angela, you know Milwaukee is known for being an incredible place an incredible park yeah from the socialist background so
Even those cold folks may as well get out.
We'll get back to
Andrea on that.
Thanks, Joe, for Madison's call.
I did see a tundra swan yesterday here in Madison at Tenney Park.
So we'll be right back on The John and Gordy Show.
I'm Matt Rothschild with Angela Lang.
Well, maybe we should start there since it's local.
All right.
We got about 10 seconds.
OK.
Turn off the mics.
Here we are in Mad City.
I'm Matt Rothschild subbing in for John and Gordy and my guest co-host Angela Lang is with me too, even though she's down in Milwaukee.
How you doing
Angela?
I'm good.
It's bright and early, but I got a lot of energy this morning.
Yeah, me too.
I love the mornings, and it's a nice morning.
It's not too bad out there.
The wind has died down.
It's cold, but the roads are okay.
So it should be a better commute.
You know, right before the break, Angela, we had a call from
Joe from Madison, and if you're listening, you want to call, join the conversation at 608-879-8255.
You know the 608, so the rest of the number is 879-8255.
And Joe said Melissa Agart, our Dane County exec, who I was interviewing on this show two days ago, was trying to lift up the importance of parks in Dane County.
And Joe asked about the park system in Milwaukee and mentioned its socialist history.
So do you want to answer that question?
She asked you, what are the parks like down there?
Yeah.
And I'll say this because I get to wear another hat.
I'm actually on the board of directors for the Milwaukee Parks Foundation.
Been on for a little over, I think maybe two years now at this point.
And the main mission is to make sure that parks are accessible for folks.
I, myself, utilized
parks a lot more during the pandemic.
I was able to walk to my local park, which also just happened to be the park that is behind my high school.
So there's a lot of nostalgia there as well.
But there has been efforts over the last few years, several years, I would say, not with this current county executive administration.
But previous county executives have kind of played around with the idea of parking at the parks and charging folks and just knowing how important parks are, not only to green space, but also to build community.
I firmly believe that having access to parks is also one way to keep our community safe as well too.
So it's a rich history and there's a lot of candidates locally on the county board and for other positions that tend to make parks a central point of their campaign because we take our parks very seriously in Milwaukee.
And it is a great tradition of, you know, what they used to call a sewer socialist.
They may as well call them park socialists too.
Yeah, you
can go to a lot of cities where where the
Shoreline is totally privatized or almost totally privatized.
It's not true in Milwaukee.
And that's a great thing.
You know, we're now joined by Tim Slecker.
Tim Slecker is the co-host of Busted Pencils, fully led at Education Talk, which is a podcast at civicmedia.us, a great podcast.
And they have a show that airs on the weekends, too, on on Civic Media.
Madisonians, if you're listening, you may remember Tim from as many years as Dean of the School of Education.
college back 2013 to 2020.
So yeah, Tim is familiar with Madison, very familiar with Wisconsin and a huge asset to civic media.
Tim Slecker, welcome to the show.
Wow.
Good morning.
It is, uh, you, where'd you, who did that deep research on?
Wow.
Just, just a little old journalism.
frightening.
I don't know.
I didn't know you popped my name into AI or something.
Just takes a second these days.
It is.
No, it's good.
I said I've been really enjoying.
coming on with, you know, John and Gordy and now the guest hosts here.
But yeah, the podcast is great Monday, Wednesdays and Fridays.
They drop and then Saturdays, you know, one full hour on all the civic media outlets and stations, you know, where we're, you know, trying to really bring, as we say, you know, what's going on in education, but scaled scaled back or enlightened by what would your neighbor really think about this stuff?
you know, because a bunch of eggheads like, you know, like me and all the other people, we tend to sometimes talk about stuff and people go, who cares?
Who cares?
And I think, you know, particularly in Wisconsin, we're, you know, we're talking off air.
You know, there's a significant stuff that's happening.
Wisconsin Higher Education, the public system.
You know, that's the University of Wisconsin-Madison, Whitewater, Oshkosh, all of those campuses are now engaging in a process where they're going to eliminate
programs and we were trying to talk about this on the show what that might mean to me your neighbor is is eliminating majors in other words you know the the I want to go to college to be uh well it might be in the next uh three to five years you might not be able to go to college and want to be a
whatever that be, because the University of Wisconsin system is scaling back and could eliminate up to 64 majors, 10% of their offerings in the next three to five years.
And so, you know,
Tim, I'm sorry to interrupt.
No, no, speaking with Tim Slecker of busted pencils.
A lot of those are liberal arts courses that they're shutting down the whole idea that, you know, you can come
to a college to become a better citizen or, you know, someone who's more well-rounded and who can understand the world they're living in and participate better in the world.
And that whole idea seems to be going the wayside here.
Yeah, I mean, that's it.
So what is it that's really going on?
Why do?
the system or why does the public higher education system in Wisconsin need to cut back and part of the story is well low enrollment you know hey look enrollment college higher public education deep down and still it's it's a business and so if you don't have students students paying tuition you can't run the business and so we got to scale back so on the surface people like well you know that makes sense if there aren't any students but you know
Okay, maybe true, but at the same time, what has happened to the University of Wisconsin system over the last 15 years, and you can see a concerted effort to defund the public higher education system.
In other words, you know,
There's not as much money and people are like, well, it's why would you fund it?
Well, because it's a public higher education system.
The citizens of Wisconsin made a decision that.
Education is important and that we as a community as brothers sisters neighbors aunts uncles we believe in providing access to quality higher education and so We're going to contribute to that and now though since you know for the longest time probably 2010 I know Wisconsin hates that that date when things kind of went crazy,
but
intentional defunding of higher education and so
Is it low enrollment that's creating the budget deficits that some campuses are having?
Or is it that it's been underfunded and starved to the point that some of the majors might be suffering low enrollment because the resources to invest in
supporting, creating more opportunities, finding more students aren't there.
And so, you know, I think this is one of those, you know, it's like, hey, read the headline, but then ask the other questions.
Because what we said, what is a public higher education system for?
And Matt, I think you were kind of getting to that.
Well, it's for, yeah, some people say,
Well, you should go to college and after you're done, you should be able to get a good job.
And John and I agree, you should.
But is higher education a job training system only?
Or is it a public system that is to support everybody in the sense of community, building democratic citizenship, cultural appreciation?
understanding complexities and things like that and so the robust curriculum is how we get there so this is a long way of coming back to saying so typically you'll see things like art majors are going away you know and you say well why is that a problem Tim if
I mean, artists can't get a job anyway.
So why bother investing public resources into a major that kids can't get a job anyway?
And these are people who just like to sit and draw.
God forbid.
God forbid.
So I think this is something you think about and you'd say,
Okay, there is a problem that maybe there aren't a lot of students going into that major, but at what point do you say that actually we're going to continue offering some of these things because that's just what it means to be in higher public education.
And then you start to say, and guess what, that's where the defunding
that happened came in because if it was being funded fully, you would actually then take some of those resources to support those other programs despite enrollment because they are an indicator of a robust, healthy curriculum that the community actually benefits from.
How's that for a soapbox?
There you go.
That's Tim Slecker.
That's why he's got a podcast.
The podcast is called Busted Pencils, fully-ledged education talk.
You can find it at civicmedia.us and his show with his co-host.
He mentioned Johnny.
That's Johnny Lupinacci.
That's his goal.
That airs on the weekends on civic media as well.
You know, and they're also shutting down campuses across the state.
So the idea, the Wisconsin idea that if you're
here in Wisconsin, you can get an education through the UW system close to home.
That's going away too, which is kind of crazy.
Yeah, and that's it.
I mean, you know, Matt, you think about that.
I mean, we're just talking about programs, the number of places that are that are shuttering.
And same here in my state in Pennsylvania, where I'm at now, the Pennsylvania public system, you know, used to consist of 14 public universities.
Now, six of those quote universities have
Merged into to what appear to be you know mega universities,
but the
reality is is that there's Not enough quote kids and that is a real issue You know and we should be asking questions about well where where did it everybody go?
But think about this then too how many of these particularly small towns small college towns their existence
And the university's existence are absolutely connected and tied together.
And so you sit there and say, hey, at what point would the closure of this institution damage not just the fact that students locally can't get the education, but what does it do?
due to the entire community.
Yeah, we're seeing
that in Richland Center, you know, bearable
all over
places all across the state here in Wisconsin with this shuttering that's going on of the of these other campuses in the UW system.
The chancellors are under the gun and the folks who are running
The whole show don't seem really to care about that.
And so this is a real problem we have here in Wisconsin.
If you want to join the conversation at 608-879-8255 here on WMDX, please do so.
We're going to be coming back with Dr. Tim Slecker and my co-host, Angela Lang.
And we're going to talk a little bit about Trump and his education secretary.
How qualified is she?
We'll be right back.
Matt Rothschild with you here on the John and Gordy show.
John and Gordy are off this morning They'll be back this afternoon from two to five and they will be back here tomorrow morning and doing double-duty So they're working their tails off here on the Civic Media Radio Network Thank you for listening the phone number to call to join the conversation 608-879-8255 608-879-8255 and I have my
favorite guest co-host Angela Lang with me this morning.
And we have Tim Slecker, the co-host of Busted Pencils, a podcast on civic media as our guest.
And Angela, I just want to throw it to you.
Yeah, really appreciate kind of just how you outlined everything in that last segment, right?
And it speaks to me personally.
I tell people all the time, I got my start in student organizing.
I was a student organizer.
I was that nerd that finessed her way into the student government so I could help allocate our segregated fees, all of those things.
This was also under the Walker era.
And so I was in college when the protests broke out around the budget repair bill, but also understanding the intersection of labor and the student movement, because everyone saw that as we have to defend unions, but there was also huge cuts to our higher education system.
And at the time, RIP, there used to be a statewide student association, kind of like a student union,
called United Council.
And that was like an infrastructure that basically campuses could their membership would vote on it.
And you would decide if you're a member of United Council, and that came with different resources, similar structure to a union.
And unfortunately, in that budget, Scott Walker was able to take that away.
And so I think there's something to be said, and I want to hear more from you, Tim, about not only is it attacking majors as well, but it's also attacking this idea of student organizing.
We see even all across the country now student organizing and that amount of, you know, repression against students to even fight back against some of these cuts.
So I'm just curious, like, your thoughts and kind of how you've seen that reaction, too.
Yeah.
And Angela, thanks for pointing that out, because I mean, to
to act as if any of this is in some form of an isolation all by itself.
Let's analyze this from a systems approach.
It's a coordinated, as you point out, effort.
And think about what's happening here is that you'll hear the framing that colleges are not supposed to indoctrinate ideologies.
And, okay, and so I said, you know, my neighbor goes, well, yeah, they should be there learning what they need to learn so they can get a good job.
You're right.
Okay.
But again, it's also preparation to be a compassionate, active, engaged.
citizen and that happens through the entire university experience.
Access to clubs, access to those student organizations, being in those student organizations to then engage in community events and or the internal governance of the university that you're at.
Like you just said, Angela, that's what we want.
College to be it's not just taking classes and job training.
It is preparation to become an engaged democratic citizen.
And so, you know, I would say it's like, well, you know, you're creating these activists.
It's like, well, would it be okay then if we work on creating engaged democratic citizens then?
Well, yeah, that's okay.
Like, oh, okay.
Come on, but but yeah, what are those other things that happen on campus?
And you see that directly attacking what people have identified as ideological indoctrination When what what it is is they're saying, you know, let's strip down this University to the point where you know, I sit down and say so in other words, you're going to make it
Incredibly incredibly even more unattractive so enrollment will continue to decline because
who's gonna want
to go?
Exactly, it's all intentional
Tim Slicker, you know the idea that
I mean, I don't think the Trump people, I know the Trump people don't want to engage citizenry.
They want people just to get any job that they possibly can and shut up, basically.
And that's what Linda McMahon's all about, too.
And so the idea that college should be a place where you learn critical thinking, that's anathema to the folks in the Trump administration.
Well, well think about that the statement you just made you know with Linda McMahon and people like wait you mean the wife of Vince McMahon the WWE Why'd you bring her name up Matt like well because she's the secretary of education for this country?
You know how that happened ah
Good question.
Dig deeper.
People say, you know, she's the most unqualified person.
Actually, she's incredibly qualified to do the job she was hired to do.
Which
is
what?
Which is do, you know, wreak havoc on public education from every angle possible.
You know, and
that is to say it's just like you know there's a reason for
Why people are in the positions they're in and they also didn't lie.
I mean she's like, you know, I'm I'm here to do away with the Department of Education
And that's what she's doing.
She's you know, she's talked last week about dismantling, you know The functions of the Department of Education and parceling them out to other parts of the bureaucracy Tim selector has been our guest for this half hour He is the co-host of the busted pencils podcast on the civic media radio network at civic media dot us.
We'll be right back
with Nina, Nina Martinez Rutherford, who is running for the State Assembly.
She's here in studio, so you're going to want to hang on for that.
Good morning.
It's not John and Gordy.
It's Matt and Angela this morning.
That's me Matt Rothschild and Angela Lang my favorite guest co-host of Block.
She's the executive director of Black Leaders Organizing for Communities and she's terrific to have on the radio with me.
So it's been fun, Angela.
It's always fun.
Always a good time.
We've never had a bad show.
No, I hope not.
Hope never to have one.
Nope, never will.
Wasn't Tim Slecker great as our guest in the last half hour?
So good.
I mean, I feel like I say this about every guest.
I'm like, I could talk to him for hours because I'm again, I got my roots in student organizing.
And so seeing and I always have a special place in my heart for students that are organizing and some of the issues that they're organizing against, whether it's their own, you know, administration or something bigger.
So I'm a nerd.
I can geek out about like the history of the student movement.
all time,
all hours.
And there is an all out assault on student organizing, especially on the Gaza issue across the country.
So that's just outrageous.
We weren't even able to touch on that with him.
So we'll have to get him back.
We've got a great guest in studio, but before we get to her, it's time for our grown up gift list contest here on the Civic Media Radio Network.
It's a text to win multi-state contest.
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Download the Civic Media app in the Apple or Google stores, find WMDX on that app, and use the text button to send the keyword, candy, for your chance to win in this multi-state contest.
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Who doesn't need 200 bucks?
In a snow blower, I mean, who doesn't want a snow blower, you know?
Yeah, good luck for that.
And get the app.
I told Dom, our engineer, whose voice you just heard, that I only have two apps on my phone.
And he was aghast, because he has hundreds, I guess.
I don't get it.
I don't get it.
I have TikTok, Instagram, Snapchat,
all the
works.
But you have two apps.
I don't get it, man.
I just
don't.
I've got the Civic Media app and the Merlin Birdwatching app.
So there you go.
Which is indispensable, by the way.
And I was a snob about it for a long time.
It didn't get it.
And I got it.
And I love it.
So anyway, if I can download the Civic Media app,
You, the listener, can certainly do it.
It's very easy.
The number to call here to join the conversation always is 608-879-8255.
That's 879-8255.
Now, right now, we have in the studio with me Dina Nina Martinez-Rutherford, a member of the Madison Common Council who's now running for the state assembly here in the Madison area for the seat currently held by the one and only Francesca Hong.
Dean Anina Martinez-Rutherford, thanks so much.
It's great to see you again.
Oh my gosh, thank you so much for having me.
It's always great to see you.
And Angela.
I know, I'm so excited that you're here.
I was just looking up my Civic Media app so I could participate.
I was like, I need that snow blower.
No, I didn't know you two knew each other until just now.
So I'm not surprised, though, because Angela knows everybody in the state who's got anything to do with politics and organizing.
So let me just ask you, Dina, the basic question while you're running for the state assembly.
Gosh, so many reasons, but I think the main reason is as somebody who experiences poverty, as somebody who has had to rely on the kindness of friends to be sheltered, everything's becoming too unattainable for working people.
And I know what it's like to wake up and not know where your next meal is coming from or, or if you're going to be able to find an apartment or housing that you can afford or, you know, and gosh, it's, if I'm experiencing it, I know that my neighbors are like, we look at how many people are accessing food pantries now.
That is our, those are our neighbors.
Those are the people next door to us who are trying to feed their family.
And this is America, one of the richest countries in the world.
And the way we are approaching this economy and the way that people are experiencing this current administration is oppressive.
It's hard.
And it's hard to find hope.
it's not a fraud
this affordability crisis not a fraud no and
I think hearing the president of the United States say it's a fraud
is a slap in the face to working Americans all across this country.
Yeah, I don't think it's a winning issue for him when he calls it a hoax.
When everyone, you know, who are you going to believe, Donald Trump or your lying wallet?
Exactly.
I know who my mom would believe,
but that's a, I believe my
wallet.
There you go.
Yeah.
And you talked about the, you know, this question of homelessness or rent or mortgage payments.
I mean,
Everyone except the top, you know, 1% or 10% has trouble paying rent or making their mortgage payments.
Yeah.
And that 1%, that 1% is the only population in this country whose wages have increased over the last two decades.
Hours haven't.
Working people, their wages have not increased.
I've worked for 233 an hour for a lot of my career as a server.
In the restaurant
business.
In the restaurant business.
My son's been doing that too.
Yeah.
And it's hard on your body, let me tell you.
But, like, I have always had insurance and security.
I just got food poisoning a couple of weeks ago, and everybody's like, go to the doctor, go to the emergency room.
There is no way in heck that I was going to go to the emergency room.
I am already under financial pressure.
And it's perverse.
And I will say that again, it is perverse that people have to choose not to seek care because they can't afford it and they don't want to go into massive debt.
It's just unconscionable.
It's a choice people shouldn't have to make.
Right, right.
And the policies we make from a city level all the way up to the federal level are, tell us who we value.
And right now, we're not valuing the, you know, working Americans.
We're valuing corporations.
They have more rights than you and I do.
More power power the purse and more
power
campaign finance power anyhow Which the US Supreme Court's gonna give more of as we speak virtually I mean it is Unbelievable, you know who controls the country and whose policies there for I mean everyone knows it's for the super rich They run the show and they don't really care about anybody else And it's never been more true now than in the Trump administration So if you're work if you're elected to the state assembly, what would be?
Your number one priority then
I mean badger care for all Let's get people insured so they can go take care of themselves if you look at every study ever done on the cost of Pouring money into health care from the federal government as opposed to taking care of those we have neglected It's a win-win when we sew into health care
It's more affordable for the government in the long run because we're not having to put our resources to things that were so preventable.
I mean it is amazing that Robin Voss is the single person standing in the way of expansion of Medicaid, including Medicaid coverage for women who just had a baby.
Every other state except Arkansas and Wisconsin expands Medicaid for a year for those folks not here in Wisconsin.
Because he doesn't care.
He is not intimately familiar with.
having to struggle just to get basic needs met.
And his one job that he considers for himself is to carry water for Wisconsin manufacturers and commerce.
That's all he's been his whole career.
Just a water boy for the big corporations in Wisconsin is unbelievable.
Yeah, and I'm sorry, but I think we are responsible for each other.
I think we are responsible for the welfare of everyone who lives in our city.
Our
country, our
state.
I mean, it's radical to think that human decency should be normalized, you know?
No, it's the ruling ideology is dog eat dog.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I've got mine and the hell with you.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Which leads me, I'm going to reposition this.
The policies on immigration.
are harming our rural communities.
They're harming our body politic and our personality, too.
It's grotesque scapegoating going on right now, but yeah, they're devastating farming and dairy farming, and it can run havoc on the restaurant industry, too, and a lot of other
industries.
Roofing, you name it.
Which is...
directly tied to the cost of our food, the availability of our food, and our Hmong community who fled a genocide.
Many of them are terrified to leave their homes, terrified to travel from one city to another.
Our Latino population are struggling and scared.
They call me all the time, Dino, what's going on?
this is probably the biggest inflection point for the country right now.
And the longer this is sustained by our federal government and by our state politicians acquiescing to these tactics.
And some sheriffs too.
And sheriffs.
The longer that happens, the less safe
our communities are, the more our economy is going to be impacted, the more the cost of your food is going to rise.
And I don't know a single Wisconsinite who wants that.
It is an inflection point, it's a moral inflection point.
It's an inflection point about who we are as a people, as a country, what we stand for, what we are gonna allow to happen.
And if you're in the State Assembly, you could do some work on that issue, too, and not cooperating with ICE,
right?
Absolutely.
That is a moral imperative for our state legislature to start working on.
I'm
speaking with Dina Nina Martinez-Rutherford.
She's a member of the Madison Common Council who is now running for the State Assembly here in Madison, the 76th seat.
Not many of us know what seat is what by number.
But anyway, it's the seat currently held by Francesca Hong.
I'm Matt Rothschild.
I'm co-hosting the show today with Angela Lang.
She is the executive director of...
Black leaders are organizing for communities.
We welcome your calls.
You can join in at 608-879-8255.
That's 608-879-8255 here on WMDX in Madison.
Driving's okay.
Should be safe in the commute today.
We'll be right back with Adina Nina Martinez-Rutherford.
Welcome back to John and Gordy in the morning show.
I'm Matt Rothschild.
John and Gordy are off this morning.
They'll be back tomorrow morning and you can always catch them in the afternoon from two to five.
These guys are really doing yeoman's duty on the Civic Media Radio Network.
I've been happy to be joined by Angela Lange as my co-host for the show this morning.
Angela Lange is the executive director of Block Black Leaders Organizing for Communities.
Always fun to be with you Angela.
You too.
We've always had good conversations, and I feel like we could do a whole day long radio show and still not run out of topics.
Yeah, I'm not sure I have the stamina for that.
Oh, I'm not proposing it.
It would be an idea, marathon.
Anyway.
Still thrilled to have in the studio with me a Dina Nina Martinez Rutherford.
She's a member of the Madison Common Council now running for the state assembly here in the Madison area in the seat held by Francesca Hong right now and Francesca Hong is running for governor, of course.
If you were elected Dina Nina Martinez Rutherford, you'd be the first trans person elected to the state assembly.
What would that mean to you?
I don't think it's about what it would mean to me.
It's about what it would mean to trans people across the state of Wisconsin.
And what
would that meaning be?
I mean, they'll be able to see themselves.
And I just think of when I grew up in small town Texas and rural Texas, and I think about the kids in small town Wisconsin right now that are terrified.
to just walk out of their homes or exist and they are often in families that are not supportive and these poor kids, these poor, these people who are just trying to exist to be able to see somebody in that place makes an incredible difference.
And we know this across the board.
Um, our experiences as humans, when we are able to see somebody, um, thrive as, as an adult and, and see them have a seat at the table, it changes our thoughts on ourselves.
It changes how we perceive our future.
What's been behind this demonization of trans folks that Trump got elected on in part grotesquely, but there it was.
Grotesquely,
yeah.
I will say coming from evangelical fundamentalist backgrounds that it has been a drive to eliminate the LGBTQ community since the 70s, 80s.
And they took the long game to install leaders and elect people who would advocate against the dignity and humanity of other humans.
which as a person of faith, I'm sorry, but that is contrary to the message.
And they're succeeding because they've had the long game.
They've played it out.
We look at project 2025, and it is not ambiguous.
And from my understanding, they have achieved 80% of Project 2025.
And this directly impacts not only trans people, but the greater LGBTQ community, people of color, immigrants, and most importantly, cisgender women.
How is
that?
Well, I mean, it's very clear that they don't want
women to have a vote.
They are talking about making women's citizenship conditional.
Yeah, this is how far back they're turning back the clocks.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And once again, I'm going to use the word perverse and unconscionable because we have worked so hard put our
lives on the line to be able to exist.
And I don't know, but I believe in the aspirational words that we were founded on about life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness for all people.
Is
that radical?
I
don't think they're into happiness.
They
want you to think it's radical.
That's the thing is that like, oh, you want universal childcare or you want people to have a living wage and people,
and I've been called,
I've been called radical.
I've been called all sorts
of things,
but, you know, radical.
And I'm like, I had to kind of reclaim that because I'm like, there is nothing radical about advocating for the humanity of your neighbors
and
community and people that you don't even know.
Yeah.
There's nothing radical about that.
Nothing radical about that at all.
In fact, it is what their religion has demanded, but they ignore that.
Yeah, I wonder what part of the Bible they're actually reading sometimes.
Yeah, I just, I'm sorry, as a person of faith, I'm really into this and we can talk about this forever.
But when, and my mom even does it, my mom is able to
unfortunately, dehumanize me in the same breath that she loves me in.
How does she do that?
Well, I mean, she negates my dignity as a human being because I'm trans and talks about it.
It's against the Bible.
It's against the law of God and whatever.
But the Bible I read said, love your enemy.
Love your neighbor.
forgive as I have forgiven you.
So I sit in the space of a justice Christ right now.
And that justice energy is what it was all founded on.
You know, this is a moment where we need more and more people of faith to speak up about this justice moment.
And there are more and more people of faith speaking up about it, which is a great thing.
And Dina Nina Martinez Rutherford,
Thanks for being on the show.
Good luck with your campaign.
Oh, thank you so much.
We'll be right back to talk some birds.
Talk some poetry.
Please stay tuned.
WMDX 92.7 FM right here in Madison.
10 seconds.
Hey, Matt Rothschild here on the John and Gordy show that's Shawn Michael Dargan doing a little riff here on birdland a little courtesy to Paul Simon there for It's
really good.
It's like it's like cheese land.
It
was I really like it.
It's soothing
Anyway, it's fun because we like to talk about birds whenever I'm on I'm Matt Rothschild guest hosting for John and Gordy here along with Angela Lank from block and we've had a lot of fun talking some serious stuff
talking some politics there with Nina and Nina Martinez-Rutherford who's running for state assembly.
And we talked, of course, with Tim Slecker of Busted Pencils about education.
But I like when I'm on for two hours here on the Civic Media Radio Network to also salute the birds around us.
You know, one out of three Wisconsinites is a bird watcher, identifies as a bird watcher.
Really?
That's twice the national average.
Maybe the highest average in the country for all I know.
It's certainly one of the highest.
And the funniest thing is I'll post stuff on Facebook that I think is really important politically.
It'll get five or six shares and 12 or 13 likes.
And then I post a bird picture and look at 20 shares.
150 like seven people like birds.
So and I've been a bird watcher since I was four years old.
If you're out there and you're a bird watcher and you want to tell me what birds you're seeing, give us a call 608-879-8255.
That's 608-879-8255.
So we had Joe from Madison calling earlier and she mentioned Tenney Park here in Madison.
So crazy me, I drove out to Tenney Park yesterday, right after, you know, there was a half inch or an inch of snow and ice on the roads, and I pulled in there at the river in a snow-packed little runway up to the lake.
I was able to drive around, but barely.
I thought I was gonna get stuck there.
I was looking for ducks, because I'd heard there was a report that there was a Harlequin duck.
This is a duck.
that is black and white in the face.
It's got a blue breast and a blue back with white stripes and then a big rusty side on it.
And it's usually a duck that you only see in Oregon or Washington state.
And I've never seen one.
So I wanted to go see one.
Of course I get out there and this is the life of a bird watcher.
I was there and I didn't see one.
It's like fishing, you go out fishing, you don't get your fish.
You're dedicated though, you know, you're dedicated.
Or you're out trying to get the buck like Mark from Prairie to Sack and you don't get your buck.
But I did see some pretty birds there.
I saw some golden eyes and some buffalo heads and some other pretty birds.
Do you have the sound of the harlequin duck, madam?
Yes, let's do it.
Let's take a listen and then we'll go to Mark from Prairie to Sack.
Very high pitched.
That's the sound of a Harlequin duck usually don't
sound like a squeak toy.
Yeah Yeah, like you just said on the squeak toy.
I love that.
Yeah, so some bird watchers have been seeing this around Tenney Park So if you're in Madison, you're a bird watcher want to give it a try go out to Tenney Park and see if you can find the Harlequin duck I hope you have better luck than I did Mark from Prairie to Sack is on the line.
Hi Mark.
How are you today?
Doing
OK, you kind of shifted gears a little bit in my brain that I know the long tail duck had had its name changed because I think it got its original name because I think they took it from a Native American phrase for the duck because it sounded like some old woman arguing.
So
the long tail duck is a pretty duck too and is kind of black and white in the face and body also and true to its name has a really long long tail.
They've seen those in the Milwaukee area near the museum.
So keep an eye out for that too.
They're all sorts of interesting ducks coming through.
What else is on your mind, Mark?
But my original thought was there will be
You know, Robin Voss said, certainly should appreciate a liberal arts education, considering the political science is a liberal art, that that's where he got his degree when he was there with Rancid Prebis, giving his education.
They were all there together, you know, Walker, Rancid Prebis, Voss, the whole gang.
And that it occurred, you know, thought occurred to me that I've been mulling over with some people that Trump is kind of like the boy, the boy ignorance underneath those.
It goes to Christmas tree, presents, and robes, because ignorance is indeed doom.
And while the context is a little different, because it's the children, ignorance and want underneath the, ignore both of them to our peril, but it seems that for Trump and his clan, the billionaires would seem they would not want for anything, but they continue to want more.
judgment of the rest of society, that how much do you actually need?
Yeah,
I mean, what do you do with the next billion?
I mean, that's the question.
What do you do with, you know, if you've got 50 million, what do you do with the next 50 million?
Mark from Prairie to Sack, thanks as always for your call.
And if you'd like to call the number 608-879-8255, that always puzzled me, you know, this race just to get the unlimited, the insatiable greed to just keep accumulating, even though you can't
possibly spend all that money your whole life and people are, you know, can't pay rent and can't afford food and yet you're hoarding all this money.
I mean, it's just, it's unbelievable to me.
It's one of the reasons, and I don't think it's controversial to say this here, but happy to have folks call in and push back on this.
It's one of the reasons I don't think billionaires should exist, right?
Because, well, one, what'd you have to do, right, to be able to acquire that much wealth?
There's probably some unethical practices that have happened in order for you to have that wealth.
But then also, like you said, you're just hoarding it.
And I think generational wealth is something that's important.
I know that's something that we in the black community are always thinking about how we're building that generational wealth.
But I can't even fathom what it means to even be a billionaire.
Yes, make sure your grandkids and everybody you're taking care of.
But that goes to a certain extent, right?
And I think it's just, it's disgusting.
And it is literally hoarding not only wealth, but it's hoarding this ability to thrive and to be able to not be in survival mode.
And it's disgusting.
But yet, we're the radical ones for calling it out.
Yeah.
I mean, that's Angela Lange of Block, who is my guest co-host.
And by saying billionaires,
She doesn't exist.
She doesn't mean what she means is I'm not saying you should be Bernie Sanders is the same thing We don't need billionaires that once you get to a billion dollars We should we should tax your wealth and your income so you don't go over a billion dollars and redistribute it
to needs of the whole community that we call our government.
We're supposed to be able to participate in our government that way.
That's what taxes are for, therefore, the common welfare, which is there in the preamble to the Constitution.
And we need to be able to provide for the general welfare somehow.
And we do it through taxes and used to be when Eisenhower
Hardly a communist was president the top marginal tax rate was 93% on You know that last million you're making so come on We can get there right now that level is under 40% so that's what happened from Reagan on down Yeah, we've got a couple calls.
We've got dick on the line dick.
What's on your mind?
The most galling thing to me about Trump and his wealth
is I remember back when he was first elected in 2017, New York Times in particular ran articles nonstop for about the first six months of his presidency about how he basically was a popper and a phony millionaire.
It was all a paper, you know, just a crap show.
And now he actually is one.
And it was produced strictly, you know, through using the White House as a cash box.
He was a phony millionaire at best.
first go around.
I mean, you couldn't even run a casino.
How hard is it to make a casino profitable?
That's the amazing thing.
And then he would stiff his workers.
I remember the story of when he was opening that Atlantic City casino, he was getting a guy to make grand pianos for him.
And the guy made the pianos, stopped all his other work, trumped in a pan for the pianos, and the guy went out of business.
I mean, this is the kind of juror that we have as a president.
always the checks in the mail with him.
Well, look at the thing with the White House destroying the White House.
Well, did from Middleton, I appreciate the call.
Yeah, Trump and his family, they're using the White House like it's unlimited ATM machine.
It's unbelievable.
We've got Matt from Middleton calling.
Matt, welcome to the show.
What's on your mind?
Morning, guys.
Thanks for filling in.
I think this greed issue.
is all part of our sick culture in America.
I don't know if it started with lifestyles of the rich and famous in the 80s
or
what, but it's very sick.
I lived in Texas for 10 years, and that was the first time I'd ever met a libertarian.
And this was a miserable white guy that couldn't find a date.
You know, your typical MAGA, angry at the world.
And he told me that greed did not exist.
and that if one person accumulated all the money of the world, it was his right to do so and his right to choose what to do with that money.
So these people are sick.
I think we have to take the power from them and tax them as much as possible because, yeah, billionaires are dangerous.
That amount of power is dangerous and no one should have it.
Thanks.
That's Matt from Moulton.
Absolutely.
And that's been the problem here because, I mean, to put it at the highest level of abstraction, I can think of capitalism's devouring our democracy.
The ability of people to accumulate unlimited amounts of money allows them then to accumulate
senators and congressmen and Supreme Court justices.
So they've used the economic sphere to dominate our political sphere and it's destroying our country and destroying our democracy right now.
And the greed does seem unlimited.
I'm reading a book right now called Gilded Rage about Elon Musk and the other billionaires in Silicon Valley who feel so put upon.
that they're not revered by the population the way they want to be revered and they feel like they're getting the short end of the stick when they obviously they have the fattest end of the stick possible.
And so it's quite extraordinary how this group of tech billionaires have shifted and now aligned with Trump.
I mean, there they were at the inauguration, you know, they're
right behind Trump oftentimes when he's out in public still.
Trump is using under his new national security doctrine the power of the federal government and foreign policy to open up markets to the tech billionaires and make sure they don't get regulated by other countries as in Europe.
So yeah, I mean, greed is a thing.
And Matt from Middleton mentioned, you know, libertarians.
I would recommend a Google search.
For anyone who's listening, look up the Libertarian Party platform in one of the years in the 1990s when one of the Koch brothers was running as vice president on the Libertarian Party.
What they, what that agenda that that Koch brother as the vice president of the Libertarian Party, the candidate for vice president, that platform is almost identical to the platform of project 2025.
So.
You know, Dina Nina Martinez, Rutherford was talking about the long game.
The Koch brothers and these other billionaires have been in this long game for a long, long time.
And it's not an accident that they've now gained power because it was very crafty and very systematic.
And they've used all the levers at their disposal economically to buy up the media and buy up the political sphere.
So, so that's where we're at.
You're listening to.
John and Gordy in the morning, I'm Matt Rothschild with my cohost, Angela Lang, and we'll be right back.
We'll talk about a little inspiration maybe going forward.
And I've got a poem for you too that you're not going to want to miss from Jim Harrison, who was born on this date back in 1922, I think it was.
We'll be right back.
Hey Matt Rothschild here co-hosting with Angela Lange because John and Gordy are doing double duty around here They'll be on this afternoon from two to five and they're on tomorrow morning at their regular spot here from six to eight And then they're doing two to five tomorrow afternoon too so you can get your fill of John and Gordy that way But it's been a real delight to be with Angela Lange I always love working with you Angela on radio so much fun doesn't feel like work
It doesn't.
I mean, you can get me up at, you know, five something in the morning and be ready to go at six.
A lot of
people can get me up out of bed doing that.
Well, I'm happy to be your alarm clock there because it's just fun to talk politics and, you know, talk about where we are at always.
That's usually, you know, we're taking the temperature of our democracy every time you and I are on the phone and on the radio together.
And so.
I also think it's important to give people some inspiration.
And, you know, I find inspiration and I find wisdom from, you know, of course, Heather Cox Richardson and Robert Reich and people like that.
But Ruth Ben-Guyot, this NYU professor who wrote the book Strong Men and is a scholar of fascism, has been a person who's helped me maybe more than anybody try to sort through where we're at.
But she doesn't just dwell on the scary.
She talks about the positives that are going on right now.
So I just want to read a couple sentences from her.
She wrote this recently on her podcast Lucid, or Substack Lucid, L-U-C-I-D, which I highly recommend.
Each time we show solidarity with others, support those who protect the rule of law.
help the targeted or expose the lies and the corruption.
We stand up for democratic values of justice, accountability, and more.
Each time we are visible on behalf of those who have disappeared or who can no longer speak for themselves, we model behaviors the authoritarian state wants us to abandon.
Joining with others, we transform our individual righteous indignation into a potent moral force for good.
I just love that.
transforming our individual righteous indignation into a potent moral force for good.
That's Ruth Ben-Giott, Substack Lucid, highly recommended.
Do you got anything, Angela, you wanna throw in?
Yeah, you know, I think.
It is no secret that being a Black woman executive director in a state like Wisconsin can be very exhausting.
And I think it's so important, especially in this time period, to always think about how this is a marathon and not a sprints.
And so a couple of quotes that I have from Audrey Lorde, and if people aren't familiar, I highly recommend people looking into her.
She had a lot of great notable works as a writer.
But one of the things she said was we can learn to work and speak when we are afraid in the same way we have learned to work and speak when we are tired.
And I think, you know, I spoke at No Kings and that was something that I wanted to highlight is that, yeah, people are scared, but it's also okay to be scared as long as we are continuing to speak out.
And then lastly, and this is in my out of office message.
Hearing for myself is not self-indulgence.
It is self-preservation.
And that is an act of political warfare.
So take some time where you need to get that massage.
Say no.
Turn off your email notifications.
It's OK.
It's a marathon, not a spread.
Totally with you on that, Angela Lange.
And here, as promised, is the Jim Harrison poem.
This is the last poem in his new and collected poems, The Shape of the Journey.
Not how many different birds I've seen, but how many have seen me, letting the event go unremarked except for the quietest sense of malevolence, dead quiet, then restarting their lives after fear, not with song which is reserved for lovers, but the harsh and quizzical chatter with which we all get by.
But if she or he passes by and the need is felt, we hear the music
that transcends all fear and sometimes the simpler songs that greet sunrise rain or twilight here i am they sing what and where they are a lovely song that greets today's sunrise from jim erison a terrific poet and writer uh who was born on this date back in 1922
Well, Angela, I want to thank you for being with me for this two-hour Civic Media 92.7 WMDX show.
It's been a real pleasure.
It's always looking forward to doing it with you again.
Yep, likewise, likewise.
And thanks, Dom, too.
Yeah, I appreciate that.
It was nice to meet you, Angela.
I didn't actually formally, you know, meet you and say hi,
but it
was nice to meet you over a stream yard.
Yeah,
Dom is terrific.
Dom, a graduate from UW Oshkosh in the spring and jumped right in here at Civic Media and has been doing a terrific job here.
And he also is the engineer and producer of the podcast I do for Civic Media called Wisconsin Forward.
And I've interviewed all the Democratic candidates except for Mandela Barnes.
And I've got feelers out to Mandela Barnes.
So hoping to get that to happen.
I want to thank our guest today, Tim Slecker of Busted Pencils.
whose podcast appears at civicmedia.us and whose show comes on on Saturdays.
And I want to thank Dean Anina Martinez-Rutherford, who's running for the state assembly.
So they were wonderful to have.
I want to thank the callers, Mark and Matt, really, and Joe.
Really appreciate those calls here from Madison.
And so, yeah, the John and Gordy folks will be back this afternoon from two to five and they'll be here tomorrow morning.
And I wish you all a safe and decent day.
greet the sunrise.
