In a world filled with chaos and confusion, in an echo chamber filled with lies and deceptions, comes a ray of light.
Live from Madison, Wisconsin, it's John and Gordy in the morning on 92.7 WMDX.
It is happening again.
It is.
It is happening again.
Yes.
WMDX 92.7, John and Gordy in the morning again.
Good morning.
It is happening again.
Happy Thursday.
You know, that's a line out of Twin Peaks, right?
I know you used to play over and over again.
and the old program, as you might remember.
I, boy, you know, it just, it just stuns me, you know, all the latest news coming out of the Trump administration.
Okay.
I mean, it, you know, it's just, you know, it's just out there again.
Of course, we're waiting patiently for the new deal, the major trade deal with the UK.
Yeah,
Great Britain.
Yeah.
Stepping up the plate, number one.
Wow, they can't wait, you know.
Yeah, they've been working on this deal for a couple of months.
Yeah.
Ready to sign the
paperwork, right?
Well, you know, it's pretty complicated, I'm sure that.
Yeah, I'm sure that it was the administration that took all the time and couldn't quite get on the same page as the rest of the negotiators, but.
Well, you know, I guess we should, you know, give him credit or credit is due.
It's all
about who Trump likes.
If he personally
likes the
moment, you know, the prime minister of Great Britain, you know, then it's okay.
We'll
sign a deal.
If he doesn't personally like whoever else is, you know, out there ready to make a deal, you know, they can wait.
He likes to work with
people that like him.
The thing that bothers me more than anything is, yeah, yeah, exactly.
But...
You know, he was out on the campaign trail doing his rallies and he would tell the story about the snake.
Do you remember the snake?
Snake.
The snake is a song.
Well, I don't know.
It may be from something else, too.
Maybe a Bible passage of some sort.
But anyway, it was a pop song and it was about somebody who befriended a snake.
And at the end of the song, you know, the snake bit the person, the friend.
And he said, what do you expect from a snake?
I honestly don't know why I kept telling that story.
It's quite revealing, Trump.
So why would anybody negotiate with Trump on anything?
Because he's just gonna end up biting you.
Yeah, that's it.
Make the deal and then a couple of weeks later, not such a great deal.
We're pulling back from that deal.
Exactly.
It just goes on and
on.
He's a victim every step of the way.
He's
the victim.
Happy Thursday, May 8th.
It's starting out nice and clear.
It's a little cooler than
yesterday.
It's very cold this morning.
Well, cold, I don't know.
It's not going to be very warm today.
That's not good either.
I'm not happy about what, you know, what's going on here.
Right now, the WMDX thermometer outside the WMDX weather window says 42 degrees.
That's what it says.
Yeah, that's
what it says.
My WMDX Samsung watch has been fairly accurate, I think.
41 degrees currently, but
The
afternoon high?
It feels like 36.
Oh, wow.
A little light breeze.
Higher on 66 today.
66.
And a low tonight.
Again, 35 degrees.
That's not good.
That's not good for the basil that we planted outside.
OK.
By the
way, tree pollen increasing tomorrow as well.
It's gonna be very high tomorrow.
So
then
I'm saying for Sam yeah the producer right Sam the producer
producer Sam
yeah Sam
the producer so uh, so I don't end up with pink eyes again Well, I guess there's not much I can do about it.
I guess I could walk around wearing swim goggles everywhere
You've done it
before Everybody wears
a mask for their lungs, but what do you do for eyes?
Yeah, so treat I tie
the tree pollen.
Yeah,
yeah, really high.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So we check the afternoon temperature.
I
did you
check by the way, sunrise and sunset.
Did you get those?
Those
are you have that?
Well, because people really need to know.
541 is the time the sun rose.
Okay.
And tonight, yeah, it's going to be at 807 sunset.
Oh, good.
807.
Well, tonight we'll be at the Madison Night Market.
It's the first one of the season will be there.
from time to time, from between five and nine.
Will you?
That's great.
What do you mean, will you?
You're not coming?
It's
the first one of the season.
You got to be there.
Like, I'll try to make it.
I'll
try to make it.
Listen, Gordie, I think it's time for us to orchestrate a kidnapping of John Peterson.
OK, well, we'll talk.
Let's figure that out.
We'll be right across the street from
our
studios right in front of the Overture Center.
And we've got our booth set up there, or will be set up there.
And yeah, we'll have some things to give away, some bottle openers and the John and Gordie stress balls.
We're ready to debut those.
So many things
that we want to debut.
I know.
The John and Gordie dark board, you know.
That?
Yeah.
And we're going
to have the meme coins.
The meme coins.
The Jack meme
coins.
The wooden meme coins.
Working on that and, you know, the stand-up cutouts.
Yes, the
stand-up board with our faces cut out so you can put your face in there.
And you can take a picture.
You can be John and Gordy for that moment.
Yeah, yeah.
All
these things we're working on.
You know, they're busy in the workshop, the WMDX workshop.
Well, a lot of people call it a slave shop, but don't worry about it.
All right.
We've got that taken care of.
All right.
Well, what will the afternoon high be for today?
It's going to be, we know it's going to be a little cooler, but, um, what about the, um, let's roll the roulette wheel here and see what we got.
Okay.
Okay.
Round it goes and.
Ooh.
Now this says 63.
You said 66.
Yes.
So, yeah.
Okay.
We'll say we're going to have mid-60s.
Polish up that marvel.
Okay.
Shall we get to the National Day calendar or should we take a phone call here?
We got Matt on the
line.
Oh, well, let's go to
Matt.
608-879-8255.
You know what the calendar.
Call us.
Call us or text us on the Civic Media app.
Matt, good morning.
What's happening in Middleton?
Yeah.
Good morning, guys.
It's a little chilly, but I'm still wearing shorts.
Okay, I know once you
get, yeah, once you get them out and wear them, that's it, you know, you don't take them off.
You guys with your shorts.
I wanted to just a comment here.
It really freaks me out, but Steve Bannon and these Christian white nationalists have been
Supporters of the new and evangelical wing that that are the prophets of doom.
Yes They want the apocalypse.
They want Jesus to come back and throw him in a cage because he's not white Do you think that's part of why they because we see it now with America pulling back you see India and Pakistan are now in conflict
and you
know lead to a more violent
Falling apart world really well that wouldn't that
wouldn't have happened under Biden Say that again Matt.
Do you think that's intentional on the Christian nationalist side because they want this kind of apocalypse because then they can sell more prep gear they can sell more Patriot Generators and all this other crap
Merch that's right.
Yeah all
about the merch.
Yeah,
yeah The worst it gets the more guns they sell the prepping gear all the crap, you know, yeah
Well, you know, you probably heard the story the other day from Naomi Klein, warning everybody about this.
This is the second coming.
This is the end times fascism.
And she was talking about that.
So yeah, I think this is all something that they would hope would be happening now, right, under under Trump, who was sent here by God to do this to
us.
They want to get everybody on board with that, so
he
can declare emergencies and just do whatever
he
wants.
Exactly.
Under martial law.
Yeah, it's not such a... It's not...
It's a good thing that the Democrats are talking about abundance, because that's what technology promised us long ago and has failed to deliver so far, but...
Well, good question.
I don't
know.
We'll just have to keep our eye on
him, Matt.
We appreciate it.
We'll keep you updated on that, OK, man?
Keep those shorts on, Matt.
OK.
Thanks a lot, Matt.
All right.
By the way,
how's our Pope Watch doing?
Do we have the John and Gordy Pope Watch music?
Can we hit that?
OK.
Because as
far as
we know.
Open the door to the.
OK.
Is there a Pope yet?
I guess they had smoke coming out of the chimney, but turned out to be black smoke.
So that means no pope yet, or they were roasting some marshmallows
and they
fell into the fire.
I don't know what it
or the other or the black smoke means that they've nominated or put in place as the next pope Trump.
No, no, no, no,
it doesn't mean that.
Oh, come on.
I saw a picture with orange smoke coming out of the smokestack.
Maybe if he gets elected, then we'll have orange smoke.
There you
go.
Well, let's get to the National Day calendar quick.
There's not much to it today.
Oh, that's good.
Not much to guess.
Not much time anyway.
Is it or is it not National Student Nurse Day?
Is it National Have a Coke Day?
National Hawaiian Punch Day?
National Orange Crush Day or National Coconut Cream Pie Day?
Which day is
it not?
It's not the Coconut
Cream Pie Day.
Well, you're wrong.
What?
It is National Coconut Cream Pie Day.
Sam, take
a stab.
It's not Hawaiian Punch Day.
You're right.
All right.
You got a shiny new dime added to your account.
It is National Student Nurse Day.
I'm watching this new show on HBO Max called The Pit.
Have
you
heard about this with Noah Wiley?
I have heard about
that.
It's kind of an updated version of ER, only more intense and more graphic.
Show operations and
everything.
Yeah.
But it's a good show.
Into the first few episodes, they only have one season out and I'm about halfway through the first season.
Anyway, National Student Nurse Day today.
They have a lot of student nurses in this show as well.
Interns,
a lot
of young doctors, and then there's Noah Wiley, who's now the... You remember him from ER?
Yeah, I do.
Well, he's all grown
up.
He's still a doctor, you know.
He's in charge.
Well, that's what happens.
You get stereotyped.
Happy National Student Nurse Day.
National Have a Coke Day.
You think this is a big commercial for Coca-Cola?
It could be.
You're right.
You
think they put that on?
Yeah, I think so.
Yeah.
It's National Coconut Cream Pie Day today.
Who doesn't like coconut cream
pie?
Well, you don't like coconut.
No, I don't.
Sadly, most men machos really love coconut.
Is that what you're saying now?
Really?
Yeah.
Do you like coconut?
Sam, do you like coconut?
I like coconut, yeah.
I don't know if I've ever had a coconut cream pie, but...
I think you're kidding.
Wow.
I don't think I'd like it
because I don't know.
I may be allergic to it.
I'm not sure.
Really?
Only one way to find out.
Let's bring one in.
Okay.
Let's see what happens.
That's it for the national day calendar.
Any history we want to get to quickly?
Well, or slowly I don't care a
couple of things here.
We can just start it for you, Gordon You ever watch the the Westminster Kenna Club dog show?
My parents dog loves to watch that when it's on every
year.
He's
just glued to the TV Really well today in 1877 the very first of the Westminster Kenna Club dog shows was held
Mm-hmm.
No kidding.
Okay, and here's the reason why it's have a coke day.
Why is it?
Well in 1886 Coca-Cola went on sale
as a
medicine
Yeah, it
had cocaine in it.
Yeah, that's my kind of medicine
Sam endorses that
It's,
we'll get to more of
it.
I
can't imagine.
We've got details coming up.
Oh boy, jam-packed show today.
We're going to talk to Jim Santel.
We've got Dr. Tim Slecker, Shondelle Marks, and Madison Malone also, all on the John and Gordy show.
Good morning.
WMDX
92.7 Johnny Gordy in the morning.
It is 42 degrees highs in the low to mid 60 beautiful sunshine today and We just got a review John of from AI of the first 15 minutes of the show.
It was listening.
I don't know why it's still the end of the hour to tell us what we did Yeah, but in case you're just waking up now.
Here's what it says
of our first 15 minutes, deals, weather, and witty banter.
Oh, that's nice.
That's the headline.
Yep.
John and Gordy dive into political chaos surrounding Trump's trade negotiations with the UK, pointing out his tendency to favor personal relationships over policy.
They reminisce about Trump's snake story as a metaphor for his unpredictability.
There you go.
Weather updates dominate as they chat about the morning chill and rising tree pollen.
The duo discusses the Madison Night Market and their quirky merchandise offerings, including stress balls and meme coins.
Callers like Matt share concerns about Christian nationalism's doomsday agenda.
They wrap up with a lighthearted dive into National Day trivia and a nod to the Westminster dog show history.
Yes.
Yeah.
Well, that's if you missed the first 15.
Did we do all that?
We do,
I guess.
I
don't remember.
Yeah.
AI knows what it's
done.
Yeah, that's great stuff.
You just try every waking moment that you're doing the show, you try and block it out afterward.
I do, yeah.
Immediately, yeah.
Yeah.
We're going to be
talking to Tim Slecker pretty soon from
Busted Pencils.
That's right.
Coming up in just a few minutes.
Also Jim Santel, attorney at law.
We'll talk to him.
And then in our seven o'clock hour,
I will also welcome in Shondelle Marks and Madison Malone.
There's a big show at the Al Ringley Theater in Baraboo this Saturday.
Yeah.
Yeah, and we're gonna find out all about it.
Okay.
What else is happening here?
Oh, tomorrow, by the way, we've got tickets to the Brewers.
Yeah.
We'll be starting our free ticket Friday.
And so every Friday we'll have some tickets to give away.
That sounds like
Bob.
Wow.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I want some free tickets.
Why does everyone else get him but me?
You got one foot out the door.
What are you here for?
Come on, Gordy.
Just a couple of weeks.
You're gone, right?
You're history.
You're yesterday's news,
right?
Sorry.
Sorry, pal.
It was
your choice.
We didn't force you.
Pretty brutal.
God.
You want to move on.
That's fine.
I'd have to go into the corner and cry now.
Don't start crying.
Oh, no, not that.
Oh, there he goes.
Oh, no.
I'm sorry, Sam.
You know,
I didn't
mean it in a mean way.
John, over to you.
What's happening, man?
Well, what's at the top of your list?
Well, we got a lot of things coming up today on the program.
I mean, truly an amazing show today.
Hey, Seth, you know, went out and stopped all the stuff going on in Ukraine.
What?
Oh, by the way, there was a
big controversy about some of the AI posts that are out there with Hakeseth and Trump.
Really?
They were holding on to lightsabers.
What?
Yeah, this is a big deal.
This is a big deal.
John Stewart will be talking about that.
Okay.
Did a little segment on The Daily Show.
We'll get to that.
And then, of course, next hour, we'll take a look at...
Pete Buttigieg's way of delivering what the Democrats should be talking about now.
He was on with Jen Psaki.
Yes, I saw some of that.
That was really great.
A lot of really good stuff on there.
She just let him talk, which is the best way for Jen Psaki to be.
To
do an interview.
Let the other
person just
talk.
Don't
say
anything.
I'm not a big fan of Jen Psaki.
A little boring.
You know, CNN has it over.
I mean, they have the best hosts.
They really do.
But at this point, Jen Psaki is there.
And we'll just have to deal with it.
But, you know, Chris Hayes is the only good guy on there.
Well, I
went mad.
I was on.
OK.
But she's only she's back to just doing Mondays.
Yeah, that's too bad.
I like Lawrence O'Donnell.
Oh, yeah, Lawrence.
Lawrence really.
I'm never up at that time.
Okay, yeah, he's very good.
Yeah This portion of the show is being brought to you by our friends at Verlo mattress of Madison one thing remains constant since they opened up in 1958 They are still direct to consumer and they provide superior products at unbeatable prices to locations to serve you better here in Madison on the west side and east side
Go to verlo.com for more information.
Check out their lifetime comfort guarantee and their adjustable frames.
As John loves to talk about those adjustable frames.
I wonder
if they have taken off over there.
We do have to talk to them and see if their
sales went
crazy.
Still trying to get Maddie the mattress to come in for an interview.
That's
true.
You know, I don't know
what the
hang-up is.
Sam, we keep asking you to contact Maddie the Matthews.
I think he's still out learning to ski.
Okay.
He's out in Colorado.
We do have video of him skiing,
yes.
Can you Google that?
Is that
available to the public?
Well, yeah, but this is
radio, Gordy.
Well, I know that, but we could throw it on our Facebook page or YouTube or something.
I think Maddie's just afraid to come in here
because this guy has cancer paint.
Spray paint.
He's worried about it.
Spray paint.
This portion of the show also being brought to you by our friends at Madison Hearing Aid Center.
You can go to their website, Madison Hearing Aid Center, and take an online test for your hearing.
They always emphasize they are there to help people and change their lives.
Their number one goal isn't just selling hearing aids, it's improving quality of life through better hearing.
You went there, John, and you know where they're located, 4706 Cottage Grove Road, and they got you right in, right, for an appointment.
Yes, yes.
You don't have to
wait.
too
long to get an appointment
there.
It was easy and they made it very simple and explained all the different options that you would have if you
wanted
a hearing aid and I've got the best.
It's got Bluetooth and everything.
That's amazing.
They offer individualized care, not one size fits all.
It's Madison Hearing Aid Center, again 4706 Cottage Grove Road in Madison.
Go to MadisonHearingAidCenter.com.
When we come back...
Yeah.
Dr. Tim Slecker will join us from Busted Pencils, right?
Fully let it education.
We'll talk to him.
From educators.
That's it.
Exactly.
We're coming back after the Midwest Farm Report, Food and Farm on the Table.
Pam
Yonkey.
This portion of the show is being brought to you by Liquid Lawyer, the product to turn to when your liquid plumber overcharges you.
WMDX, John Gordy in the morning.
Gorgeous morning.
42 degrees, highs in the mid 60s for today.
Speaking of lawyers, we will talk to attorney Jim Santel, coming up a little bit later on in the show.
Also, tonight is the big night market downtown right across the street from our station.
We'll be in front of the Overture Center from five until about nine o'clock this evening.
Big Madison Night Market.
They have about once a month all the way through October.
So it'll be a good time.
Happening at night, Gordy.
I'm scared.
Are
you scared?
I'm
scared
of the
dark.
Don't be afraid, Sam.
You'll be okay.
It was a big Halloween event here.
We'll be with you.
So bring your costumes.
It's
not Halloween a bet.
What do you say?
We have Dr. Tim Slecker with us this morning.
Good morning, Tim.
Good morning.
Let's go to the phones though.
Catherine is on the line
this
morning.
You can call us as well.
608-879-8255.
Phone lines are open.
You can also contact us on the Civic Media app.
Good morning, Catherine.
I'm sorry to interrupt, Tim.
I know you've got lots of important educational stuff to talk about.
I just wanted to tell the guys because they don't have monitors in their studio.
You just missed a promo from Pete that made me laugh out loud.
He talks about Nate Bragazzi, who you love, Gordy, right?
Oh yeah, Nate Bragazzi, yeah.
Who
told me about him?
And he says that Nate might not be able to stand up much longer because he has much higher aspirations.
Nate apparently talked about Disney and how it's run by a corporation, not by a really funny person.
So he wants to create the gothy land or something like that.
And then the last thing he says is.
It may, it may seem that it turns out that Nate has more ambition than talent or something
like
that.
I couldn't believe it.
I thought it would make you laugh.
Really?
That's funny.
But also, Tim, you know, I know you're not in town right now, but you should come to the night market because I know John Peterson is going to be there.
That's
right.
To display his protest.
And stop making fun of it, John.
For God's sakes, it's fun.
OK.
All right.
It's
a
lot of fun.
He
actually has not committed to being there tonight still.
He's still on the fence.
Yes, you're going to be there.
I'll probably be there.
You're
probably there.
It's a directive.
You have
to be
there.
Boss has spoken.
Have fun with Tim.
All right.
We will.
We will.
Thank you, Catherine.
Wow.
I
know.
I know.
What do you think, Tim?
What's your
impression?
I think if you go to the night market, you should bring a liquid lawyer.
Yeah.
I'm still kind of trapped on that wondering.
What is that?
Yeah, you
know.
John's been known to carry a flask in the hip
pocket,
so
why not?
The kids won't mind to
come up and spin the wheel.
Yeah, I'm often talking about people's rights.
My right to drink and bubbly.
All right, well.
Well, Tim, if anybody has, and I'm sure they have, checked out your podcast, you and Johnny have been going at it for AI.
You know, one of these days,
I think you guys are gonna just get in the mat, get a ring and
go
at it.
The thing is, I wanted to ask you, I know that you guys are debating about it and I'm not quite sure where Johnny is on this whole thing.
But the thing is, do you think this kind of discussion is going on around the nation as well with other educators trying to figure this thing
out?
That's a good question.
I think that actually no.
And I think that that's a real problem.
Because, you know, it is fun and funny and, you know, hustling with Johnny going back and forth
like
that.
But if you if you listen to the issues we're talking about, I mean, they're really, you know, relevant and
So from my side or my standpoint, which is that this is a huge transformative cultural moment that has a real ability to make things, I hopefully better.
And my point of being very pro AI is to make sure that we're ahead of it and having these discussions so that potentially a lot of the harms that are.
potentially out there with AI, that by having really long open discussions back and forth is so that you can be aware.
But I will say that, maybe put it to this way, I think K-12 schools are actually much better and much more informed in going forward in ways
um that are positive maybe more like johnny and i having these discussions and that higher education though is really lacking and mostly from the standpoint and i think this goes to the article that we were really discussing is is that higher education continues to simply be this unmovable object that says we like the way we do things and and darn it don't mess with us because
We it's a proven product that you know and and and this is where you know Johnny It's been hitting me is like I'm the faculty hater or something like this is but I you know My brethren in the college ranks.
I I know way too many who kind of look at AI and really make this statement of going I'm so good AI would never replace me
And if anybody went to college, I'm pretty sure that most of us would go, you know what, a lot of those professors, they weren't so good.
They stood in front of the class.
They talked about what they knew.
Maybe they have a PowerPoint that they've never updated, or maybe they still use the overhead projector.
because that's been a proven teaching method and you know they have exams that they've you know put together with such incredible care that you know why would they ever change their exams.
So there's both that and I think that particularly as I look at you know Sam and the the younger generation of students that are coming into this they
they're not very much in in the mind that goes well they're just a professor you know we have to accept this i think they're kind of going like okay this stinks why would i you know if i could take this course somewhere else so hey there's a whole lot there you got me streaming thinking in my head right now but
I think there should be way more conversations about the depth of how we're doing this.
And I think higher education, those institutions that are doing it, they're going to be the ones that are going to thrive in the future because I can't think of any job that isn't going to have some type of connection to AI and having AI impact what it means to do the jobs that we're all doing.
So, I don't know, maybe I said a whole bunch of nothing.
No, actually, let me ask you, the difference between a classroom K through 12 or a classroom in college, is there a way to integrate that AI in college?
It seems like it would be a little more difficult in that situation.
Well, I break it down to this is maybe look at you know, what are the majors that students take in college, right?
And so with that you say so what jobs are the majors most likely to take and then you move out and say okay of those jobs Let's go out and talk to the industries of who are hiring our graduates
and
ask them about how they're using AI That's right, and that's where you're going to hear them going
Well, yeah, we use it every day.
And then you ask the college faculty that are preparing students in that major and say, are you using AI to prepare these students for the jobs that they're likely to take?
And if the answer is yes, well, then that's a good thing.
But I feel that there's still so much going like, and this isn't even AI.
There's a resistance with a lot of faculty
to not be in the, I'm not preparing you for a job.
Right.
I'm preparing you to be a deep thinker.
That was,
that's in one of your podcasts, your recent podcast, right?
I mean, you're learning from the private sector what you need to teach in school.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And you know, that's
people don't like to be in the business of preparing people for future success in life.
And we like to just talk about how awesome it is to sit around and think.
Well, you know, they're still working on, you know, training high schoolers to be welders.
I think, you know, it's time, it's time we bring in AI, right?
That that element into the high schools to at least get people understand how that's going to be part of industry.
I'll give you an example from industry though because I'm you know on this on the side I've actually been doing a little bit of consulting with industry in AI and in the manufacturing process of this private industry that I've been working with.
They have a floor, you know, manufacturing area and they have a process and to prepare the either the floor text to work on that process or the managers of those factories, they have training materials that say, here's what you do.
Here's what you don't do.
Here's how you mix this certain chemical batch.
Hey, if this goes wrong, here's what you do.
Those training manuals now.
they're not very good at preparing people to do well as workers.
And so I was showing them how to take those training manuals and turn those training manuals into a handheld bot that they can actually integrate and ask.
Hey, I'm standing here on machine A. What should I do?
Let's take these training materials and turn them into a two minute video that helps people really learn what's in those manuals.
How do we turn these manuals into a podcast?
And so here at a facility that is some people will go, why would they care about AI?
Well, because actually the training materials can be converted and become much more effective at keeping your
people, you know, more efficient.
And if you're talking about a business, that that's just really key.
So when I did this presentation at this industry, it all of a sudden clicked on people are like, wait, we could use AI to do this, we could use AI
to do this
week.
And, and, you know, then they were thinking, and somebody made the comment of going like, our
our future workers who are in, you know, either training programs or colleges.
Holy crap, I wonder if they're getting this type of training.
And so industry is thinking about this and it is changing.
So I just think that, you know, having deep conversations about the ethics is absolutely worth it.
But I think there's a reality of saying industries are already doing this.
And so if in college, we're preparing a large portion of the graduates to become
professionals or workers, how is it that those majors are being impacted by the use of AI out in industry?
And how do we then adapt and adopt the curriculum to make sure that students are getting the preparation?
Talking to Dr. Tim Schlecker here.
We just have a minute or so left here, Tim, but we're getting a couple of texts about AI.
This one from Curt in Madison saying, AI is going to make individuals even more intellectually lazy.
Please explain how AI is going to improve critical thinking skills.
I just don't see it happening, not to mention killing reading skills.
I don't know about that.
We have AI here
in the studio that summarizes what we just talked about over the last 20 or 30 minutes.
And it's
interesting because it extends our conversation.
on it and
maybe it
maybe you
know
just points out a couple of things that we hadn't even thought about so
exactly that that's not a an invalid concern you know maybe next time we could talk more about that yeah so we're out of time for now though dr. Tim's
always hold Tim over if you want to you got a couple more
minutes Tim
so I got a
few
more yeah why don't we try that let's do that let's pick
up the topic after the break we'll be back with dr. Tim slecker John and Gordy
John and Gordy's Media World again, right here on WMDX, 92.7.
And right now we're talking to Tim Slecker from Busted Pencils and we want to continue the conversation in regards to AI and will it make people intellectually lazy?
What do you think,
Tim?
That's assuming people aren't already.
They won't make them.
They're already there.
All right, I'll try to get to this quickly.
Even within that joke, though, is the reality of going, have schools, have its education ever really done a great job?
with that.
You know, I think that's debatable.
When people make that claim, I think that's more personally about who they are and how they think.
And then when they use AI, they see that it could and potentially, and I don't disagree, that it can create shortcuts that would actually then take away students engaging in skills that are actually really needed.
Um to move this along however, I would say in you guys, you know made this comment be either in between the brakes it Comes down to like anything.
How do you use it and what is the intention be how between?
about how it's being used because I see nothing but expanding and deepening and actually enticing more critical thinking because of the way it can actually get you to think about things you didn't consider when you put it in there.
But that also then requires that we prepare students about how to ask better questions, how to dig deeper.
And so that to me says is that that goes back to just what does it mean to be a good teacher, to have a good education curriculum is, is that are we developing that intellectual curiosity?
Because somebody who has intellectual curiosity, AI
expands and actually creates this sense of going I didn't know I could ask these questions I didn't know I could dig this way I didn't know that I can put together these two things and ask it to find out what are the commonalities between this so it's an incredibly powerful tool.
Will it potentially be used by people to shortcut around things that they should have known?
Absolutely, but you know, guess what?
From the the yellow cliff notes when it came to reading Shakespeare in the 80s, I used them.
Yeah, you know,
yeah, we
all do.
Yeah.
And so, you know, if there is a shortcut to doing sometimes, and this is the other thing.
doing sometimes meaningless work that is really just busy work, people will find shortcuts.
So this really comes down to the institutions of learning to really start to reimagine what is it they're asking students to do.
And if it is something that AI could do much easier,
then maybe the assignment, maybe the activity you're engaging in needs to be adapted to recognize now that actually being lazy is really easy.
but maybe the assignments were actually encouraging lazy intellectual curiosity.
That's true.
You know, I guess when you were first talking about this way back when you did bring up a few examples of, you know, what students would experience if they entered this into AI and got a response back, a lot of the students would question immediately some of the information that they did see from the AI answer and actually maybe even create a curiosity.
about that information so they Investigate to find out if it's true or not or how true it is or if there's even more information tied to that situation, right?
Right, but but I mean again, you know that is the intention Stephen do that and as you're saying that now John I mean, you know, how about just a simple assignment where?
You know, we put together a list of quote facts and engage students in saying okay
Are these true?
And if so, how do you know?
Here's an AI tool, go.
And then come back and tell us what you learned about.
Oh, this fact, this is nonsense.
In fact, here's what we found out.
That inspires critical thinking, digging, research skills, learning what it says, right?
So I understand the fact that there are going to be students who are going to say, oh my God, this is a shortcut and I'm going to use it.
Okay, that's always going to happen.
So, but we need to then think about going, maybe it's the assignments and the workload that we've been giving that we now need to change and recognize that, you know what this.
This is way more efficient than those yellow cliff notes that we had.
They always ran
out on the ones that you really needed for the next day's assignment.
Go to the store and
they're all
gone.
Society didn't collapse
because of the cliff notes either.
No, no, it didn't.
But you know, Sam said the store in the break.
The other part though too is if you have a critical thinking base and so yeah, we need to really develop critical thinking and maybe that's outside of AI, but I can tell you the other part is is that.
If you really know something, like I said, I just enjoy the way it expands my thinking about the things I think I already know a lot about.
That's right.
I remember the discussion was, you know, come up with a topic on Abraham Lincoln and quotes from Abraham Lincoln.
Remember that
example?
And then, you know, Abraham Lincoln's dialogue in the movie Abraham Lincoln, Vampire Hunter, which turned up in
the
research.
Not a good thing,
so don't include
that.
No.
Dr. Tim Slager, we need to leave it there.
People can find your podcast on the Civic Media app and also through wmdxradio.com.
It's on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays with new podcasts
and then Saturdays
as well.
Hour long program.
Tim, always great to talk to you.
Thanks, guys.
Appreciate it.
Talk to you next Thursday.
Yeah.
This portion of the John and Gordy show brought to you by your friends at Verlo Mattress of Madison, one thing that remains constant since they opened the doors in 1958.
They're still direct to consumers, providing you superior products at unbeatable prices.
Two locations in Madison, east side and west side, or go to verlo.com.
Talking to attorney Jim Santel in our next hour and Shondelle Marks and Madison Malone about a big show in Baraboo.
Stay with us for more of John and Gordy.
It's the John and Gordy show.
Do you know what this means?
Wouldn't you like to know weather, boy?
You're pretty high on fire, aren't you?
What kind of kick are you on, son?
You're
no good bastard.
Your show sucks.
What made me think this was a good day to stop drinking?
What if you want coffee?
I need coffee.
Coffee.
Black
coffee.
Coffee.
Coffee.
They want us about people like you!
What a load of crap.
Thank you, sir.
May I have another?
We'll
do it
live!
And
that's the way of it.
On 92.7 FM, WMDX.
Take it away boys.
Okay.
And don't forget to check out the Civic Media app and call us there or text us and tell us what you think we've been getting a lot of texts here.
And Doug out there in St.
Francis is starting to get worried because of AI.
He
says,
hey, wait, my job is to point out things you haven't thought about.
Am I being displaced by AI?
Yes.
Yes, Doug.
Sorry
to say, yes.
We're
quickly moving in that direction.
And Catherine pointed out, you have to teach students that AI itself is not infallible.
Always have to bring that up, because it does make mistakes.
as we pointed
out.
It's funny pointing out AI's mistakes to AI.
Yeah.
It's like, oh, it gets very apologetic sometimes.
That's it?
Yeah.
It
does.
It does.
It is seven minutes past the hour weather wise today.
Beautiful sunshine all day long highs in the low to mid 60s.
We're in the mid 40s now.
This portion of the show being brought to you by our friends at MadisonHearingAidCenter.com.
They're on Cottage Grove Road in Madison.
They are
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They're located in an accessible setting.
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Downloaded it's free free to use and you can call us or text us there.
Okay.
All right Here's something that's kind of bothered me for a long time and that is that the Democrats keep saying that they're messaging in the last Presidential election wasn't where it should have been and I disagree with that completely and I could be wrong
All
right, I think
wait a minute.
No, I
could be wrong.
Yeah,
they may be right, but I'm not sure I personally don't think their messaging was unclear and Didn't hit the mark.
I thought it was right on but I think that after four years of campaigning by Trump with rallies across the nation three or four times a week saying that the Democrats
policy is bad, that they were lying to everybody, that he won the election.
I think people started, at least to question what was before their very eyes.
And I think that was the problem that Democrats experienced during the presidential run.
That was it.
And you have to run for four years.
That's what I'm thinking at this point, at least with Trump in the race.
You gotta run for four years.
Now all the other candidates are starting to run.
Well, and Trump,
unusual though, never been a politician, you know, in that, I mean, he threw his hat in the ring, having never held any kind of political office before.
He's a business guy, you know, and not a great one either.
I mean, you
pretended to be
great, but people bought that and he's a TV personality game, you know, with the apprentice and all of that.
So very unusual and very, and just a very odd personality.
So I think people gravitated to, well, this is something completely that doesn't.
He's P.T.
Barnum is what he is.
Yes,
he's P.T.
Barnum all, yeah.
He really is.
And so, you know, everybody criticized Kamala and Tim Walls for their speeches.
I agreed with their speech.
I thought they were right on the mark.
Now Kamala is thinking about getting back into the race and I've seen so many posts now.
Don't do it.
Don't do it.
We don't want you back.
What's going on here?
All right, anyway, I want to bring this up because Jen Psaki last night had Tim Walz on and I can predict and I'm going to tell you right now.
Yeah.
With certainty that we will have a few cuts from that show tomorrow on the program.
All right.
He had so many great things to say.
It was just jaw dropping.
But also the night before she had
Pete
Buttigieg
and he had some incredibly smart things to say.
The messaging is there.
It's always been there.
But now we're, you know, we're looking at it a little more closely, a little more skeptically.
But really, Pete Buttigieg is saying it like it is.
AOC is saying it like it is.
And of course, and Tim Wallace
is
out there now saying it like it is.
I was gonna bring up Bernie Sanders, but he's been like that for years.
Why don't we get to a cut from Pete Buttigieg, the other day.
He laid it out very clearly.
The difference between Dems and the Megas.
Let's listen to this cut.
We have got to make sure that our Opposition and everything that we're against and obviously there is a lot to be passionately against right now But it has to travel with a clearer picture of what we are for because there are a lot of voters who for whatever reason and and Democrats might be shocked by this but for whatever reason Did not find any of the things they've seen so far about Donald Trump to be disqualifying and what that means is there's something else that it doesn't mean they necessarily loved him But they need to see something more.
This is not a question
of accommodating things that we don't agree with or watering down or changing our values.
It is a question of making very clear to everybody how your everyday life is different if we're in charge compared to if they're in charge.
What your life could be like if wages went up the way that we propose that they be raised.
What we would do with the money if we successfully stopped the tax cuts for the wealthy
that
are at the core of Donald Trump's economic agenda.
What we think could happen in a country where we had
need family leave and some of the unfinished business of fixing our health care system.
It's not just a matter of preserving the Affordable Care Act as important as that is.
It's going the next step to make sure everybody can get and afford health care.
All of these things that need to happen, that needs to be as clear a picture as our response to the authoritarian tendencies of this administration.
Because the truth is, proto-authoritarian governments don't just come out of nowhere.
We would not be in this situation.
If the government, the economy, and the politics of our country were healthy, they've been unhealthy for a long time.
I think everybody knows that.
And if we seem like, if my party seems like it's calling for a return to the status quo from before, that will be both substantively wrong and politically it will fail.
Yeah, there you have it.
I
think that's a
perfect, clear
message.
Can't just go after Trump and not offer something else something better some future-looking, you know ideas
and policies Going forward isn't it strange though every time I hear a quote from Pete Buttigieg It's easy to understand and I always agree with that I'm sorry, you know
He's got a lot of great ideas.
He's a very
meticulous fan club now.
Well, that's what studying seven languages will do to you.
I
guess he's
got a
way
with words.
He really does have a way with words.
Well, he was an intelligence officer as well.
Yeah.
in the military.
So let's get to another person with a way for words, and that is Desi Lydic.
She's one of the hosts on The Daily Show, and she took a look at this big FAA problem that Sean Duffy now has in his lap.
And I think this is well said.
Let's listen.
It might be a hassle to get the real ID, but once you get to the airport, your dream vacation can begin.
and chaos at one of the busiest airports in the country.
Close to 900 flights have been canceled into and out of Newark Liberty Airport just in the past week.
Newark Liberty International Airport yesterday and this morning was where dreams were crushed.
To be fair, that is Newark Airport's official slogan.
But what's wrong with Newark Airport besides it being Newark Airport?
ABC News learning air traffic controllers lost radar and communications with planes packed with passengers for 60 to 90 seconds.
Pilots can be heard learning of the outage over the radio.
No, you do not have a Bravo clearance.
We lost our radar and it's not working correctly.
I'll wait for that frequency from you, okay?
Okay, no, we don't have a radar so I don't know where you are.
I don't know where you are?
So it's chaos.
In Control Tower, it's chaos in the sky, and definitely chaos in the terminal.
Travel chaos at one of America's busiest airports, an eighth straight day of disruptions at Newark.
Baggage handlers
overnight to have dealt with what happened here.
People are at their wit's end.
Actually, someone just walked by us and says, I'm going to kill somebody.
They're so angry.
Unfortunately, the wait time to kill somebody is three hours.
Now apparently this whole thing started with a spark from an old copper wire, but that's really just one part of a systemic problem crumbling infrastructure, staffing shortages, overworked employees, Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy, you gotta fix this.
So where are you?
Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy says he too was stuck at Newark
Airport.
relatable.
We get stuck at the airport.
He gets stuck at the airport.
We don't know how to run the Department of Transportation.
He doesn't know how to run the Department of Transportation.
Boy,
that's
something.
How come no one ever reported that?
I don't
remember anybody
saying
that.
He was stuck there too.
The fact that they lose radar every once in a while.
Oh, that's happened a number of times.
Well, she mentioned the end of the copper wire had something to do with it.
Short things.
I mean,
don't
they have windows in these control towers?
Why don't they just look out the window where the planes
are?
Yes.
Well, try to figure out which plane you're looking at, right?
Right.
Yeah.
I think we saw that in airplane.
Maybe they should.
That didn't work out
well.
Let's go to the phones.
Lines are open.
608-879-8255.
Dick has been patient.
waiting here for the last few minutes.
Good morning, Dick.
What's on your
mind?
A million dollars goes into the clock.
Oh, that'd be great.
His account.
A LiJAR form.
Yeah.
I think we put this tariff on him starting, you know, right now.
Yeah,
absolutely.
Every time he's a fault, it's the Trump-mult-tariff.
Well, that's great.
Maybe we can come up with a sound effect for that.
Yeah.
All right, Dick.
Thanks a lot.
I also have some.
This is airport related.
What do you wait?
Wait, wait.
Hang on a second.
Hang
on.
Emergency.
Emergency.
Batman speaking.
Warning.
All of you to brace yourselves for big news.
All right.
All right.
This is breaking news from CNN.
No Pope has been chosen.
They've had another round of voting and the black smoke is piling out of the chimney right now.
Black smoke.
No Pope.
OK, that's our John and Gordy Pope Watch.
Where's our Pope Watch?
Well, the
Cardinals
are trying to
get their countries to be involved,
right?
And
they're not going to back down.
That's the
hold up here.
We
will
keep
you
informed with our
John and Gordy
Pope
Watch.
Let's go back to the airports again, because Real ID is now kicked into effect.
And I understand now they're going to.
put people through a little bit more of the red tape if they don't have the real ID, but they still will be able to fly.
It's just that there'll be a longer wait and a longer process, I guess.
I
thought the rule was you wouldn't be able to fly.
So
well, they've got a grace period,
a grace period, like a what, how many years, 15 years?
Yeah, this was supposed to go into effect in like 2005.
It's a long time.
But I thought this was this is a web wisdom.
Actually, this is a new place.
I didn't check, do we have, what?
I'm afraid we don't have time, John.
We don't have a minute.
Oh yeah, we don't.
Okay, well I'll tell you what, it's a good promotion for it.
It's a new place that I've discovered, discovered called Next Week News.
Next Week News.
Next Week News.
Looking into the future.
Yes, absolutely.
We'll
get to that in just a moment about real ID.
All right, we will be back with more of John and Gordy right after this.
WMDX 92.7
Jimmy and big this It is 722 sunshine today highs in the low to mid 60s right around the corner We'll be talking to attorney Jim Santel will be discussing the rest of Judge Dugan and also
Governor Evers will back and forth with the Trump administration.
We'll
be talking with Jim in just a few minutes.
And then a little bit later on, Sean Dell Marks and Madison Malone, a couple of musicians that are going to be part of Big Show to...
to help out the folks and to make donations to Hope House of South Central Wisconsin that shows going on Saturday, the Al Ringling Theater in Baraboo.
We'll find out about that a little bit later on.
All right.
Okay.
Oh, it's time to check weather.
That's what's next.
And it's looking great outside.
Let's go to Brittany Merlord.
Brittany was giving you that look.
You like, don't forget
about it.
Exactly.
I'm sitting here waiting.
Well, boy, she's very patient and we appreciate that.
Our chief meteorologist for WMDX, Brittany Merlo.
Good morning, Brittany.
Good morning.
And it's totally fine.
I don't have too much to say because the weather is cooperating.
little cooler today, but still very comfortable mid sixties tons of sunshine.
The only thing really on the radar is tonight.
We've got some frost possible, probably widespread throughout the area because temperatures fall right to that freezing market, flirts with it, hangs out there and that could do some damage to plants.
So if you guys have put any of those in the ground already, you're going to need to cover them up.
Well, the real
sensitive, the
sensitive
ones are the basil.
Really?
You
gotta cover your
sensitive plants.
I've got some marigolds.
They seem to be quite sensitive.
Are you talking about sensitive parts?
Well, I talked to them and they kind of shy away sometimes if I get too harsh with them.
Really so.
Well, you have a soft side.
That's adorable.
This guy's
out there in his planters, putting in flowers.
Yeah?
Well, what's
wrong
with that?
A
different side
to Gordy the other day.
I'm just starting to get into gardening a little bit in my... Why didn't I take a picture of that?
Oh,
well.
Picture it.
It didn't happen, exactly.
Yeah.
Anyway, so weather's looking good.
How long is... Other than the frost tonight, how are things looking for the weekend?
Thank you.
Warmer and warmer.
We're going to hit about 70 degrees tomorrow.
We'll be in the upper 70s, both Saturday and Sunday.
Oh, wow.
And we'll probably hit 80 on Monday.
What?
Really?
Yeah.
Wow.
In the
80s?
I like it.
I like it.
All right.
All right.
Well,
very
good.
Brittany, thank you very much.
You're welcome.
We appreciate that.
We'll check in with you again tomorrow.
Have a good one.
All right.
Take care.
That's our WMDX chief meteorologist, Brittney Merleau.
Okay,
and a new site that I found next week news.
I don't know how to get there, but
I
accidentally got there somehow and I
thought it was... You built a time machine on accident?
Well, it was kind of a cool site.
It's a parody site.
Everything they
say is a joke, but...
I do like this one about Real ID.
Let's play 61, cut 61.
Alright, let's play this.
We have a new update from next week on how the rollout of the new Real ID program is going in the United States.
Shockingly, many of the airports have underestimated not just how many passengers would be unfamiliar with the new procedures and mandates, but also just how many of them are actually experiencing their first day on Earth.
This new discovery gives us some more insight into the minds of airport travelers, and it may go beyond a simple lack of understanding or experience with how things work there.
A large percent of travelers seem to have no experiences of any kind at all when it comes to things like rules and behavior.
Thanks to the new mandates, we have some new data now to back this up.
In the first week of Real ID, airports across the United States are reporting so far that 14% of travelers did not know why they were there or what they were doing.
Another 21% just blew in from Stupid Town and a staggering 32% were, in fact, born yesterday.
So there it is, the latest from...
I've heard that guy before.
Next week.
Have you?
Yeah, I forgot the name of his channel that he runs, but I've heard his voice
before.
Oh, okay, so he's added another channel.
Next week news, this is what it's called.
I'm not quite sure if you can get there, just by...
plugging it in,
but I hope
you can anyway.
I'm certainly going to check them out again.
I just like it.
I like
predicting the news.
Such a great resource.
Oh, I know.
I know.
What do you got?
I was just going to mention, Sam, we have to just be aware that some of our guests may be arriving at the side door over there.
So just keep your eyes open.
Keep my eyes open to look
through the
wall that's between me and that door.
Make sure that we're not leaving them stranded out there.
Okay, never mind.
This portion of the show brought to you by, I'm sure they'll call us or text us.
Okay.
This portion of the show is brought to you by Verlo Mattress of Madison, one thing that remains constant since they opened their doors back in 1958.
They are still direct to consumer and provide superior products at unbeatable prices.
They have two locations to serve you here in Madison on the east side and the west side, or check out their Lifetime Comfort Guarantee at Verlo.com.
All right.
About a
minute here, we've got Jim Santel coming up after the Midwest Food and Farm Report with Pam Yonkey.
And I was
checking out a few other AM radio stations, you know, their right-wing radio stations.
You still have an AM radio.
There's some
around here.
And sometimes, every once in a while, they go out there and they try to defend their policies by ripping into the Democrats.
I guess, you know, they really don't have a way to do the right thing, but one of the big things for them is death threats.
They love to play up the death threats.
So if a politician, a Republican, a mega gets a death threat, oh boy, they are the victim of death threats.
Like Democrats don't get it.
Look, I've been part of this for a long time.
This started well before Obama.
And when Obama took office, there were so many death threats, it was absolutely ridiculous.
So now, of course, the Republicans picked up on it on the college circuit.
You know, the speakers there had to have high security because of death threats, and that made them very popular.
Well, now the politicians are doing it, and I'm talking about you, Derek Van Orden.
Okay.
We got to find something better to threaten them
with.
You die.
Big deal.
All right.
We'll be back with more of John and Gordy on WMDX.
Stay with
us.
This
portion of the show is being brought to you by Ed's Legal Clinic.
Remember Ed's motto, no matter how big your problem is, we'll take it.
No matter how weak your case is, we'll take it.
And no matter how large your bankroll is, we'll take it.
Well it sounds like they'll take it.
I think so.
WMDX, John and Gordy in the morning, a beautiful, beautiful sunny morning.
Yes, and it's going to stay sunny all day.
Highs a little cooler than yesterday, mid sixties.
For today, this portion of the show being brought to you by our friends at MadisonHearingAidCenter.com.
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All
right.
Our special guest this morning isn't in here enough as far as I'm concerned.
But it is Jim Santel from Amicus Allah Review.
You can listen to his show.
on Saturday 9 to 11.
And it is a fantastic program and you get to call in and ask your questions about law.
And every day there's something new that we always have to talk about.
But one of the big topics, of course, in Milwaukee is the arrest of Judge Dugan.
And you have that as one of your big stories that you want to pick up on this morning, Jim.
Absolutely, yes.
I'm going to be with you as always.
Once again, I think I'm going to be with you, I think weekly from now
on, based
on what are our new dance cards.
So very much looking forward to that.
Thank you for inviting me as always.
There will never become times when we get together at 7.30 on Thursday morning.
It's nice to see G.
nothing going on.
Yeah, let's just talk about about the weather
or about the color
of the paint and the walls that sort of thing.
And today is obviously no exception.
Last week and the weeks before also, many things obviously in the news around the world in our nation.
But locally, this issue is one that comes back to Wisconsin because we have the arrest a couple of weeks ago of a was sitting Wisconsin circuit court judge, your name is Hannah Dugan.
She plainly, everyone knows all your good listeners are very attentive to this.
And among other things, again, that we could plainly focus a lot on, she has been charged in a criminal complaint, two federal statutes, she's been charged with felonies involving these allegations, again, innocent until proven guilty.
There are allegations at this point that she engaged in this activity a couple of weeks ago to basically scurry off one of the defendants appearing in her court in the Milwaukee County Courthouse.
That's no small thing and that is significant.
The reason that you, the three of us, four of us were discussing this even before the insert began here, the segment began here was just this.
It was a decision to arrest.
And that is the kind of thing that in addition to having a complaint, charges, all prosecutors think about after charges have been issued.
How do you bring this person into the system?
Typically under situations like this where the person is not violent,
They're not a risk of danger.
They're not a threat to flee, that sort of thing.
You know what you do?
You pick up the phone and you say, you know what?
We've got this complaint.
What are you doing next week, Thursday afternoon at two o'clock?
And that happens every single day.
State system, federal system, even municipal systems as well, in situations where there's not a risk of flight or there's not a danger of the community.
Here, here, a decision made, presumably.
among the Department of Justice entities, including I would assume the Department of Justice in Washington DC, the Attorney General, and our local U.S.
Attorney's Office.
This is someone who had to be arrested coming into work that Friday morning.
She was brought into the federal courthouse as we know from good reporting, reliable reporting, not only handcuffed but shackled for ankles, shackled as she walked around the federal courthouse, brought to the magistrate judge and they're released upon a finding that she is not.
a danger to the community and not a risk of flight.
And again, all the circumstances of that, that is your rest piece of this, in addition to the charging piece that has me greatly concerned, given what the Department of Justice has traditionally done in every U.S.
Attorney's office around the country.
That should be a source of concern, I believe.
I know it's for the two or three of you, but also for your listeners.
Well, I think the big message is send fear.
and make people just worried that maybe they'll be next or maybe even normalize
the experience.
Right, exactly.
And just again, the other part of that implicit in what you just said was, of course, you get this image, this photograph that is sent around the world by the director of the FBI.
There are two, the messages could not be clearer.
And there are two without going into great detail, from my perspective, a while unsupported violation
of the Department of Justice internal policy when it comes to statements in the public arena.
You just don't do those things.
It does not have any legitimate forward-mulking purpose in the rule of law.
You're doing that simply to embarrass, to intimidate, to incend those messages.
And I will tell you again for all the years that I was there, that kind of behavior never ever would have been permitted.
Now it's coming out of Washington, D.C.
Yeah, it was an unnecessary event, the Judge Dugan perp walk.
And what happens next with
that case now?
So coming up soon, the magistrate judge before whom she appeared scheduled a hearing for May 15th.
And so
yes, indeed, talking about next week, right?
And the purpose of that hearing will be to conduct what's called a probable cause hearing.
to determine whether or not the charges should continue to be in place.
It's entirely possible at some point here and actually mandated by our Constitution that at some point a grand jury, a grand jury has to issue an indictment if at all to charge this case.
That's under our Constitution.
And so that could happen.
Lots of things in the next few days and weeks happening in this case.
Absolutely.
Well, I understand she has some good representation to actual Republican attorneys.
Absolutely.
And one of my predecessors, a friend and former colleague of mine, Steve Buscupic, former U.S.
Attorney, and Paul Clement.
Paul Clement, obviously not only from Wisconsin, former Solicitor General of the United States of America and the Department of Justice.
He is a top and you don't need to even add on Republican Democrat.
He is a superb lawyer and takes cases in all areas.
A recent was involved in the Eric Adams matter as a
kind of advisor to the federal district court judge.
He is a superb lawyer and he is now on the defense team.
Here's before the Supreme Court routinely, she has a stellar defense team representing her.
Talking to attorney Jim Santel and let's Jim turn to the case against Tony Evers and what's happening here.
This threat by the borders are.
Tom Holman to arrest and prosecute Tony Evers and his reply.
Your thoughts on this.
So again, this maybe as a part of the Department of Justice or maybe Washington DC's general focus on Wisconsin, right?
We know that we have been the focus of a lot of attention politically and in the past several years and now within about a week or so after the arrest and the charging of Hannah Dugan.
We don't have a governor who's been arrested.
We don't have a governor who has been charged here.
But what happens is that Tony Evers says he issues a very benign memorandum to all of these state agencies, which is a part of his duty and responsibility as our governor, right?
To tell staff people, okay, if an ICE agent comes, what do you do and ask for?
documents, information, or you've been asked to produce a person.
What do you do?
And again, that's an important issue operationally.
Why do you want to know about that?
So there's no security or safety issue.
It's not perhaps regularized, but you've got a sense of mission here in purpose.
And we don't have what happened in the Milwaukee County Courthouse.
So what he says basically is somebody comes to your door and asks for information.
And the answer is
call the lawyers, right?
Call the attorneys so that they can come in and facilitate the legitimate government purpose in doing whatever they want.
And of course, some members of our legislature, state legislature respond badly to that, saying that he is also obstructing the process of government, which he's not.
And then we get Tom Holman.
And this is where the issue is, is the border czar, czar, who as we've spoken about on this program has previously said about federal judges, federal judges who?
We're not going to follow what they say.
We're coming.
And now he is more than subtly indicated that if Governor Evers pursues his policy here, that he too might be arrested, might be charged for obstructing government operation.
It is a wild...
allegation unfounded by the fore corners of what the governor has done.
And again, nothing has happened there.
But it prompts Tony Evers also to say he's got to issue a statement saying I didn't do anything wrong.
I have not engaged in felonious conduct in violation of the federal code.
And basically, this is just absurdity coming from an appointed official inside the
Trump administration.
I think what Tony said basically is just if they ask you a question, don't answer.
Right?
I mean, that's a very simple policy that I think, you know, it's typical of any government body.
You know, you don't, you don't speak for the department.
If somebody asks you a question, you don't speak for them.
You say, well, talk to this person.
That's what you normally do.
So if they're gonna make a big case out of saying, well, you're trying to block that information, no, it's just that they're not a spokesperson for the department.
So if they ask you a question, don't answer it.
That's a very, very typical way of dealing with this stuff.
And thank God we have Tony Evers in that position because he's up for election and there is a Republican running now.
His name is Josh Schoeman.
I have a cut here.
This is cut.
I want you to hear what Josh Shulman would do in the case if he were governor right now instead of Governor Evers.
Let's listen to what he would do.
A dispute between President Trump's borders are Tom Holman and Governor Tony Evers continues.
Washington County Executive Josh Schoeman says he would have sent a different message.
The Republican just announced a run for governor in 2026.
When I'm governor, we will work closely with law enforcement, local, state, federal.
There are partners.
Where would you be standing with the president on this or would you raise any concerns?
I will absolutely be a partner with him in giving him the resources he needs.
so that federal law enforcement can do their jobs.
We've reached out to the White House to see if we can talk to Holman about his concerns with this memo.
We'll let you know when we hear back.
All right, so anyway, that's Josh Schumann.
He'd go along with it.
You know, you just...
And the
reality is...
Right.
You can take everything that the county executive said there and say, yes, we're cooperating with law enforcement.
There's nothing about what Tony Evers said, which
is
lack of cooperation.
It's
advancing the interest and saying, as you just said, John, let's make this orderly.
Let's do what we always do.
Let's initially, when you get the request, let's call in the attorneys.
They will be the spokespeople.
They will be the ones who will give you guidance under the law.
to accomplish the legitimate goals of the agency, the privacy interests that they have, but also the legitimate interests of law enforcement in executing warrants or even request for information.
That's
what's going on here.
Just a couple of minutes left here, Jim.
Can you give us an update on the Abrego Garcia case and where that stands?
Sure.
Right.
And so once again, we have federal judges.
I don't mean to make light of this, but their hair is on fire once again.
It
has been for four weeks here.
This doesn't end.
And just yesterday, the judge whose name is Judge Paula Zinnis, she's in Maryland, once again had a proceeding.
She issued an order commanding more information along the way she confirms that the government is now alleging this is state secrets.
about a Brego Garcia, and she is not done.
And she and other judges continue to be hugely frustrated by the failure, the decision by the government not to provide information about this case.
Right.
Very good, Jim.
Thanks.
No
due process.
I mean, that's the bottom
line.
Jim Santel, you can listen to him on Amicus Law Review every Saturday morning from 9 to 11 on the Civic Media Radio Network.
Thanks for joining us, Jim.
Back with Shondelle Marks and Madison Malone to tell us about a big show in Baraboo this weekend.
Next on John and Gordy.
You
would
not.
7.7,
John and Gordy in the morning.
It is 7.52, sunshine today highs in the mid 60s.
It's going to be beautiful today, great all the way through the weekend.
There's a big show, John, happening Saturday at the Al Ringling Theater.
Yeah, I
did not know that.
Have you ever been to Baraboo?
Have you seen the Al Ringling Theater?
I think I've
been through Baraboo
a few times.
Yeah, they have a fantastic theater there called the Al Ringling Theater.
It's beautiful.
They do, yes.
I think it's known as the nation's most beautiful...
theater or something like that.
Circus theater?
Yes.
No, it's not.
Well, it's not a circus theater.
It's a regular theater.
I know.
Anyway, there's a big show Saturday night.
Yes.
And we have two of the musicians who will be performing at that show this Saturday.
It's all to benefit Hope House of South Central Wisconsin.
Shondelle Marx is with us and Madison Malone, and they're both in the show.
Good morning.
Good morning.
Good to have you both here.
Shondelle, why don't you start out?
Who's going to be appearing at this show?
What musicians will be there?
What bands?
There's three acts for this show.
Opening the show is Spare Bones, which is a new band that I'm part of.
It's a trio.
We're doing some originals and covers.
Next up is Madison Malone, all the way from LA.
She's doing some amazing things in LA and we're thrilled to have her be part of the show.
Next up is Gold Dust Women, an all-female Fleetwood Mac and Heart cover band.
Wow.
That's the big lineup now.
Madison Malone.
Are you originally from this area?
Yeah, I grew up in Portage.
Yeah, that's what I thought.
I think I interviewed you five or six years ago.
I think so, yeah.
At the radio station up there.
Yeah, but you moved to LA a while back.
Yeah, in 2016.
And what has happened since you moved out there?
A lot.
I've been writing a lot of music.
My first project was I was writing music for Celine Dion.
And
then...
Really?
Yeah.
Wow, that's
amazing.
Yeah.
Now, I think we have a snippet of music to play from what is this?
Can you tell us what cut this is?
Of
Quiet Down 2.
So I recorded an album then as well, or an EP, really, of songs while I was out there.
It's called Quiet Down 2, and it's just about loving who you love.
OK, let's hear a little bit of that, and then we'll come back.
I don't believe that love could be a sin
Oh, thank you.
Madison.
How many CDs have you put out or how many?
So I'm working on another
album.
I'm
working on another album right now, but I also just released an album last week.
Excuse me.
It is a sync music album.
So music specifically made for film and TV.
And I recorded that with Tim Myers, who's the founder of OneRepublic.
And that just came out last week.
I'm not quite sure I understand the concept of that.
What is it?
So sync music is there are libraries around the world and Los Angeles is a big city that has.
you know, these libraries and commercial houses and companies will go to these sync libraries and be like, Hey, we're creating a commercial for Nike and we want it to be an empowering motivational song, something uplifting.
Do
you have any music like that?
And they'll say,
yes, we do.
Here's like five songs to listen to pick one.
And then they'll put it in the commercial.
And so we made 15 tracks just for that.
Reason
well good luck with that.
Thank you.
You make some money money on.
Yeah.
Yes.
That's the goal
Now Shondo, I know you're in a couple of the bands that are appearing on Saturday night.
Yeah, I'll ring the
theater.
What times the show start
doors are 6 30 shores starts at 7.
Okay The headliner is the Fleetwood Mac tribute band gold dust women you're in that.
Yes, along with some other Madison powerhouse Musicians,
and it's all it's basically all Fleetwood Mac
music.
Yes,
we would Mac and heart.
We recently added a little heart set because who doesn't love heart music?
Oh, I know.
I know.
John's a big
fan.
No, I do
like heart.
No, they're great.
I don't like
that.
No, no, actually, they're back on or they were back on tour recently with original, you know,
still
rocking.
Yeah.
We just have a couple of minutes here.
But this is all for Hope House of South Central Wisconsin.
Can you tell us about their mission?
Yeah, I will also mention that
Madison has a great nonprofit called Music Makes a Difference.
And they are sponsoring the show.
They are all about giving musicians more of a living wage, supporting the arts.
And every show that they sponsor, a portion of the proceeds goes to a local charity.
So for this charity, they chose Hope House of South Central Wisconsin.
Terrific.
And it benefits abuse victims of domestic abuse.
Very good.
The show is Saturday night.
Al Ringling Theater in Baraboo.
Tickets available.
You can go where Al Ringling?
Al Ringling dot org or at the door.
Very good.
And let's see.
So the lineup is you are you're another band there.
I want to mention that spare
bones.
This is a this is a new project for me.
We're doing my my music.
This is our debut show.
So how lucky that we get to bring your cut in for that.
No, but I do want to play a cut that Chandel did for John and Gordy's show.
OK,
let's do one of our jingles.
Yeah.
Can you play that, Sam?
Let's play it.
I think he's got it there.
This one which we play fairly frequently.
This
is all
Chandel.
Oh my god.
That's all
her.
This
is my masterpiece.
She's releasing a
lot.
In the morning, in the morning, in the morning.
We have a real face in the room.
We got to go.
Shondo, Mark, Spanish Malone, Big Show, Saturday night, Al Ringling Theater.
Don't miss it.
Thanks for coming in, you guys.
Thank you.
Tomorrow, Rocker and a free ticket Friday, Brewer's tickets.
Have a great day.
See you tonight.
