Transcript
KXEL Presents: The Jacobsen Group Podcast – March 29 , 2025
The Jacobsen Group with Jon Jacobsen · Mon Mar 31, 2025
If you're enjoying this KXEL podcast, then we invite you to listen to KXEL's great programming in real time too!
You can hear us on the radio, statewide at AM 1540 and in the Cedar Valley at FM 100.5.
We stream live on the web, not only through KXEL.com, but also through our free KXEL mobile app.
And Alexa knows how to find us too.
It's where Iowa comes to talk, News Talk 1540, KXEL.
Welcome this glorious Saturday morning on KXEL, America's original 50,000 watt blowtorch, caraming across the Big Ten, 14 states, contiguous, including the original Big Ten states and two Canadian provinces on that inimitable and unique 1540 AM signal also coming to you on the FM Band 100.5 from the Cedar Rapids Tower.
We are...
Your news voice not just for eastern Iowa, but for all the Midwest John Jacobson here on the Jacobson group I'm gonna tell you that we're very appreciative this program is brought to you by Jim and Cindy Jandrick Founders of Midwest renewable energy LLC ethanol renewable fuel energy for a strong America It's lean.
It's clean and it's green emanating from the East Central Prairie Plains of Nebraska and
Life runners Jim and Cindy Helping out those good folks that life runners go to life runners.org Do like the lovely gracious Deborah does and get your t-shirt to walk and run for life building a culture of life from room to tomb Helping specifically expectant mothers and babies on the way both before and after birth
John Jacobson with you on KXEL on the Jacobson group, and we've got coach Patrick J. Knapp, Jr.
and John Stewart, our inevitable regular contributors to this beacon emulating from Waterloo Seed Rapids, America's original 50,000 watt blowtorch.
We canvassed the entire Big Ten and up into Canada.
And guys, the update is
that it wasn't during degrees.
It was Ben McCullum and we speculated last week with Scott Corey that it would be either McCullum or possibly Chris Jans.
And also another update, Fran McCaffrey gets another head coaching job at 66 at the University of Pennsylvania.
And how ironic that the contract with Fran to pay Fran's
money that is owed on the contract by terminating it early is not mitigated by his salary at Penn.
Fran's going to get his 4.2 million a year and his Penn salary.
Let's go to Coach Knapp.
First off, Coach, what a deal for Fran as it works out.
Is it a tough job at Penn for him?
Yeah,
John, good day to everybody.
The Ivy League has totally changed with NIL and the portal.
I just read an article where Fran was being proposed as a new coach.
And as a matter of fact, there are several players who are going into the portal from that team
that
are top knots.
They now say that they will think over their decision.
But again, the portal and NIL money is draining the Ivy Leagues.
You know, not even the great Yale could move forward in the NCAA tournament this year.
Penn looks at this position as not just winning the Ivy League, but doing damage in the NCAA tournament.
That's the tradition that is there.
Dick Carter, Bob Weinauer, Fran Dunphy, on and on.
I wish Fran the very best of luck.
I was in that position once myself, and I wish him the very best, but it's a much different job now.
It sure is.
Coach Knapp, again, he's right at the Epa Center, Pennsylvania guy, very familiar with Penn Coach Patrick J. Knapp Jr., the Georgetown lesson.
John Stewart, I know you've always enjoyed Fran and been a supporter of his.
Are you delighted that he does a find a landing pad, John Stewart?
Well, you know, I I Kind of didn't think that he was done.
I just didn't know if it would be Somewhere back east at Pennsylvania But as coach said, you know, it's it's a tough job and With today's NIL the way it is and things like that if you can't attract some of those
Players that are out there in the portal at least occasionally.
I don't think you're gonna be real successful almost anywhere.
I think you've got to be able to get portal people and and then fortunately we have a Number of schools that are the haves and the rest of them are the have nots and I think the richer will get richer and
interesting
Darian DeVries, the erstwhile Drake coach, one year at West Virginia who got lured away.
We thought to Iowa, we made a bid for him.
He ends up at Indiana and in an ironic twist, it looks like Josh Dix is looking at Indiana.
Johnny, is that a surprise to you?
Do you think it's the DeVries connection?
I thought he might be looking at Craytoniana over there in Omaha, being a council blessed boy.
What's a you, Johnny?
Well, and the only things that I had read about him at all is that he was, uh, he was leaning to Kansas.
So I don't know what's going on.
Coach, any speculation, any thought, uh, Blake, why would any Iowa boy want to come to Kansas these days
to have decent job?
You know, uh, always hard to fill the shoes of Bill Self
though.
Uh, coach, your, your opinion on what we'll, uh, we'll, uh, well, well, let's talk about the hiring of my first choice.
Mr. McCollum, Ben, I wanted him.
He was my first choice over degrees, and we've got him.
And Coach, what's your take on this whole thing?
And will he make?
Well, he's bringing his top man from Drake with him, so maybe we don't need to worry about all these Iowa guys that have fled for the portal.
Coach, size this up for us.
Yeah, Bennett Sturks who used to be on what's my line in the 1950s.
That was
Bennett Cerf.
Bennett Cerf.
Yeah, well, I got him confused.
Well played coach.
Well played.
Go ahead.
Ben McCollum is 26 and 95 with an 81% winning percentage.
Bobby Knightall, we said that he met better coaches.
at D23 and in high school, then some of the guys he coached against in college.
And it seems to me that all Ben McCollum does is win.
So it looks like a home run hire or the Hawkeyes.
And when we talked about the portal, let me just comment on that.
I don't know where Josh Dix will end up.
He had a pretty good year this year.
There are a couple of Iowa players that should find success.
in other homes, but this kid, Owen Freeman, 1.8 million to go to Creighton.
Is that confirmed?
That's out of control.
I'm sorry.
That's out of control.
Wow.
You know, for a team that doesn't know how to win in March very regularly, that does surprise me.
Play the theme.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Listen, that's why, uh, that's why, yeah, we'll have Blake, uh, uh, interposing the Creighton fight song, which is the Soviet men's, uh, uh, Anthem chorus here momentarily.
You know, um, I didn't want to raise precisely because of the 20 years that he coached under Altman and McDermott at Creighton.
They never made a sweet 16.
Uh, the discarding of Fran, uh, was precisely because Fran never got the sweet 16 has been Tom Davis in the last century.
that last got us to the sweet 16.
I still say Creighton, always a bride's being never a bride.
Johnny, I like the McCollum Hire and even in the Kansas City area where we do other radio shows.
They're familiar with them from Northwest Missouri State.
All he did was win there.
He's bringing his big gun with them.
I think the guy could probably recruit.
But Johnny, the thing to me is, I think the donors are opening up their wallets overnight again and restocking an NIL fund that was depleted because of some hesitancy about Fran continuing his coach.
John, what's your opinion?
Well, that is my opinion, mostly of what you said, but I kind of, uh, any more.
somewhat discount all of the recruiting knowledge and things like that because I think a lot of these larger conference schools and coach can weigh in on this too.
They just go to the math conference and a few of the smaller ones on the east coast and the mountain west and stuff and just poach their good players.
And so I don't think I don't put quite as much
uh, emphasis on recruiting is what I would have fiber even 10 years ago.
Well, let me ask the intangible, the coach snap.
So, uh, uh, coach snap, uh, there was the, uh, uh, even Blake is familiar with the big, uh, Jinx against the Boston Red Sox for trading away Babe Ruth, right, uh, Blake?
Oh, of course.
Well, we've had this, uh, in, uh, in both, uh,
Well, let's take a look at the Nebraska football team.
They fired Frank Solic, who all he did was win nine or 10 games every year, top 10 finishes in bowl games, and have been jinxed ever since until they brought Frank Solic back for his pat on the back, his award, and his stadium
win their first bowl game with a first winning season in a while, uh, coach since.
McCullum is a student and a devotee of Dr. Tom Davis.
Is this time now for Iowa?
Now that the athletic directors are gone in the post Davis era, now that they've brought back in Ben McCullum, is it time to bring 86 year old Dr. Tom Davis back to a hero's welcome at Carver Hawkeye?
He was the last guy to take Iowa to the sweet 16, never lost a first round game through his entire coaching career in the NCAAs, whether it was Boston college or whether it was at a university of Iowa.
Do we bring back Davis and break the jinx and maybe does this help Ben McCollum revitalize the men's attendance
at Carver Hawkeye?
That's a great recommendation.
I would be for it wholeheartedly.
You know, I remember Tom Davis when he was at Lafayette, a small school north of Philadelphia in Eastern VA.
And then of course in the big East at Boston College, he's a class act.
He won everywhere.
Iowa should recognize him once again.
And, you know, he came back kind of like Bud Grant did and a few other legends.
uh, late their careers or, uh, you know, Kurt Gowdy coming back, uh, to do some games, uh, during strikes, uh, is that idea of, uh, you know, just, just making sure that, that there's always a way to give honor to the past and.
Tom Davis was called back into action about 10 years ago in his 70s to take the helm at a dilapidated Drake program.
And John Stewart, he brought them back to a winning team at Drake, solidified it, and part of the resurgence for Drake is due to those seats planted by Tom Davis in his 70s.
Definitely.
And I think probably
To a certain extent, John is at least somewhat responsible for them having the arena they're playing in now.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
So I rate it.
Blake Griffin, you're an outsider.
You're a Kansas and Ottawa guy.
Bill Self has struggled this year at KU.
It's a different world with NIL and portals and managing rosters.
What do you think of Iowa's higher of Ben McCollum from
Basically from his tremendous record at Drake this year 31 wins and winning the first game in the NCAA is going as far as any Drake team did going back that final four team of 1969 under Murray John
Well, I think he just goes to show that winning carries whether that's the division two level or whether that be mid majors winning coaches make winning teams and Final outro for you guys
coach nap
Uh, the Hawkeyes did well this year without Caitlin Clark.
Uh, they lost against Oklahoma pretty badly.
I know you and I thought they had a shot at winning that game.
How stands the Iowa women's program?
Are they still on solid footing?
It sounds like, uh, fear back is coming back.
Sadly, we lose Lucy Olson due to the fact that it was her last year, but Iowa has some tremendous recruits coming in, including that lights out, uh, uh, uh, gal from Southern Cal, uh,
Whether the Iowa program, how goes it going forward coach for Iowa women?
They're going to be fine.
They have more than several young players coming back who put time in, got outstanding experience this year.
And they proved a year ago when the quoted number was 250K or Lucy Olson that they will play well in the portal.
So let's wait and see who they bring in.
Yeah, John Stewart, you know, that that's really a cool thing.
And thanks to the efforts of guys like coach Patrick J. Knapp Jr.
who put national women's basketball on the map from Georgetown and DC, the media center of the world along with coach Gino over at UConn getting those first national televised games.
John Stewart, it's got to be gratifying doors think for coach to know that the Iowa women are out drawing the Iowa men three to one at Carver, 15,000 to 5,000 home game.
John Stewart.
Wow.
Wow.
Yeah, they're far out drawing them.
I think, you know, the fan apathy had set in on the men's side and that's what you end up with.
Yep, Johnny, I think we'll still be singing in heaven.
There is no beer at DJs and Omaha you and me the unofficial Iowa fight song coach We're so delighted to have you on as always for this special report coach You've got a wonderful podcast out there and man I can't wait to hear you go with Gino If only you would open the phone line so I could call in but you're not gonna give me that chance.
Are you a coach nap?
Well, we're not that sophisticated yet.
But how do we catch out here in Iowa, Minnesota, the Dakotas, Nebraska, Kansas, Missouri, Indiana, Wisconsin, Michigan, Illinois, Ohio, uh, and two provinces in Canada who are listening in today.
How do they catch that great podcast years, coach?
Play by play on Spotify, Amazon, iHeart, anywhere else you get your podcast.
We have Paula Famer, Joan Bond Vassini, over 700 women's basketball college victories made her bones at Long Beach State and Arizona.
That's a great podcast that is up right now.
And coach, who do you see in your final four?
We had games on Thursday and games on Friday.
Who do you see in your final four?
Well, on the women's side, I have
Without a doubt Yukon UCLA South Carolina and TCU Is my sleep or beating Texas.
Wow, however, so Carolina is losing right next to Maryland if people wanted to and and with the men I Have Alabama beating Duke.
I am not on the Duke train.
Yep.
I have Houston.
I have
Florida now that St.
John's was beaten.
So St.
John's was in it.
Yep.
But now they're not going to take Florida and finally Auburn.
So Auburn Duke
and
Houston, Florida.
John Stewart, you have the last word here.
Who's your final four pick?
I know you felt your brackets, Johnny.
Well, I had Florida as the champ and I think I had
Duke and Houston, I can't remember who I've got in the other read probably Auburn, but I'm not a hundred percent sure of that But coach if you watch that game last night, there's not too many people it could beat Alabama if they make 25 out of 52 3 Oh,
my unbelievable.
It was quite the circus great game to watch
It was
Blake Griffin's chocolate Blake.
I know you
want in okay.
Who's your final four buddy?
I've got I've got Houston.
I think they looked a little shaky But that offense it only only compares to the Alabama offense when the Alabama offense is on like they were early earlier in this in this tournaments It's gonna be a tough one.
I but I've got Houston in Florida in my final in my final two first of all
And don't go away, we'll be back in our next segment after this quick message.
I will just say one final thought here.
So far, the new leadership regime in Iowa, President Wilson and Beth Getz as athletic director, these two women coach seem to be getting the job done with some good hires.
Coach Knapp, Jan Jensen and now Ben McCollum coach.
Do you agree?
Yeah, I think that it's not just who they hire.
It's the timing of hires that are very important now.
So yes, give them an A.
All right, you guys.
John James with Blake Griffin, John Stewart, Coach Patrick J. Knapp Jr.
You're listening to Jacobson Group here on KXEL.
It's a beautiful Saturday morning in eastern Iowa as this signal carams 50,000 watts clear channel all across the food at plain Blake Griffin and John.
Economics is the study of human choice in the world we live.
Faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see.
By investigating faith in economics, we can learn how they lead to human flourishing.
This is the Faith in Economics podcast, a presentation of the Gortney Institute at Ottawa University.
Welcome to our show today.
I'm Paul McCrae, producer and undergraduate scholar for the Gortney Institute.
With us we have Russ McClelland.
founder of the Gordney Institute and Wayne Angel Chair of Economics, Dr. Justin Clark, you know our family professor of philosophy and ethics, and Dr. Peter Jacobson, the Gordney Professor of Economic Education and Research.
All right, well today we wanted
to talk about conversations.
I don't know exactly what Dr. Clark has in mind, but you know, are we, is that a skill that we're losing kind of verbal communications because we're on
text messaging, and I've seen a couple funny things on here recently where, you know, two couple is sitting right next to each other and they're choosing a text message rather than verbalize whatever they're doing.
So I don't know if that's becoming a lost art form and what were you thinking, Justin?
I think being able to have a conversation, especially with somebody that you might not know, is a really important skill to have.
And I
think people are just terrible at having conversations.
So I think one of the best ways I think to get better at this or to even learn maybe like some principles to to figure out what you're doing wrong.
If you're if you're doing it wrong, like there's old books like that Dale Carnegie classic, you know how to win friends and influence people.
That's actually a sales book.
It's about like selling.
But to do sales well, you have to be able to do this kind of thing.
And so I think I'll start out with what I think
The biggest problem most people have with conversations is that they enter conversations I guess maybe let me take a step back for a second like this is a skill that comes in handy I think no matter what your job is and it's something that.
If you do it wrong, you don't know that you're doing it wrong.
It's kind of like having bad manners in a sense.
You can alienate people without wanting to alienate them.
And if you're good at this kind of thing, it's like the equivalent of being able to make a good impression at will to exit interactions with people and have them think like,
I would like to have another interaction with this person.
And so I think this is like a really important skill for people to have.
And so I think the biggest problem most people have is...
Justin, I wasn't really
listening, but I'd rather get my point across.
The biggest problem people have, I think, is they enter conversations with the goal of transmitting information rather than receiving information.
And since most people enter conversations with this goal, one of the best things you can do if you want people to exit an interaction with you thinking like, wow, what a great interaction is not worry so much about the information that you're outputting and focus on asking questions and letting the other person get their information out.
Often once they've done that,
they will be receptive to any information that you want to give if you have some information to give.
But so many people enter a conversation with like the thing that they want to say and it's just you can see it like bouncing around in their head and you can also often see they're not listening to what you say because they have that thing bouncing around in their head.
They are just waiting to get to play
To play the move that they have planned to play in the game of the conversation.
And so it's like feudal for you to try to output information without letting them get theirs out first.
Yeah.
Yeah, and there's many aspects to this too.
If you kind of mentioned business, but just social stuff, Thanksgiving, family reunions, you know, you name it.
So there's kind of a.
a social angle to being good at conversation, but then the business angle with it.
And my son had actually taken a class on the Carnegie thing that had been very helpful for him.
He really thought that that was great.
Can you elaborate on that?
Um, so what's the name of the book again?
How to win people over how to win friends and influence people
and it was written in like 1960 years.
It's an old book.
I think 60
or
50s.
so they have designed courses.
He took his first one during his undergrad and it's just to kind of learn the skill that they're really teaching it as a skill you can learn and he did and he's been he's a pretty social guy anyway, but I think there's more of being able to
Set the stage so that you can get whatever you're trying to get across because it is a business oriented one seal the deal so to speak or come to terms on something but you know how you approach it.
My former mentor boss was a master of this and he was I guess in his 60s when I started working for him and I was in my late 20s.
and I'm just like I was the type that I wanted to get the deal done like he'd be having a business meeting right and we knew we were buying an apartment building or a piece of land or something and I just wanted to get to the details and he you know always like oh what's the weather like out there and the other thing when tenants would come in where are you from and he at some point you know told started to coach me a little bit on it and like everybody's from somewhere us so and then inevitably he had traveled a lot
He'd always have a comeback of, oh, I've been there, or I've been near there, or that part of the country, or whatever.
He kind of immediately where you're from, and then could kind of go on from there and seem like he'd, well, do you know the Johnson's?
They were there, and so he was really a master of that, and a good businessman as well.
And so I just picked up after sitting in his office for so many years.
When I started working for him, my desk was in his
business office.
So I would listen to him on the phone all day long and really learned a lot just by how he interacted with people.
Yeah.
And what I'm about to say might sound like it's undercutting Justin a little bit, but I don't intense that.
And so I think Justin is right that the average person, their biggest problem is that they are uninterested in actually conversing and they want to give a speech instead if they
to be there at all.
which is maybe another issue we could talk about is for those who have social anxiety, we might be able to come back to that.
Because I think that may even be a different issue.
But yeah, Justin's right.
Sometimes you can literally see it on their face, like you've got a point that they want to say, you could say anything at all, and it would not affect at all the flow of the conversation, which by definition is a bad conversation.
If the other person and what they spit out to you does not influence what you're going to say at all, you're not in a conversation, you're in
uh, dueling monologues.
I don't know.
But I would also say that the, the flip side is, you know, there is, I think an art to asking the right questions to, uh, and that's difficult.
And that's actually where I think I struggle the most is like, I sort of know that, like, you know, the right way to do this is to get them talking.
You know, there's an art to like finding the question that gets someone to really open up and get them excited about what they're talking about.
Right.
And that's why, like, people kind of make fun of the small talk stuff.
Like, what's the weather?
Maybe, uh, you know, I don't know where that's just brought up, but
It might not be the best one.
I think a better one is that other one you brought up, which is, well, you know, where are you from?
Because that's where commonality lies, right?
Where if someone tells you where you're from, then you can go and say, oh, you know, I, you know, know this from that region or whatever.
It's one thing my dad's really good at is kind of like your boss is now, I don't know that my dad does the listing part
My dad listens to the podcast.
But my dad's very entertaining and the reason he's very entertaining is because he does listen enough to like find out what a person's interested in and where they're from and he just has like this weird like encyclopedic knowledge of like you know whether it's years, actors and actresses, athletes, places.
He just has something for everything, right?
And I don't know that everybody can learn that skill.
I think maybe that skills a little bit of a born skill, but I do think you can like learn the source of questions.
So I don't know, Justin, do you have any thoughts on like, how do you ask questions the right way?
Like, you know,
Man that weather right like that that's kind of a bad question or you know where do you get your ideas from like a classic bad question right?
But how do you get good quite or what where do the good questions?
I think one of the things that I think Russ brought up that maybe we can expand on a little bit is that I think you can there's different strategies for a conversation that's
a social conversation versus like a business one where they both might start out the same where what you're trying to do is like build this commonality and build some rapport.
The purpose of building that rapport in a business conversation is so that eventually when we get to the hard thing, the thing that we might disagree on or that I'm trying to sell you on or whatever, we've established that base of rapport.
In a social conversation, I'm looking for things
that if there's issues that we disagree on, I'm picking up on those and navigating the coloration away from those things, right?
So if somebody like mentions politics or starts talking about politics, I pretty much know that I probably don't agree with them.
So I'll steer stuff away from politics for that reason.
Whereas like in the business scenario... How about those royals?
Yeah.
You know, in the business scenario, I'm trying to like...
Okay, figure out how I want to get to the difficult thing rather than avoid the difficult thing.
I mean, there are social conversations where you want to have the difficult conversation too.
But like, if I find out somebody disagrees with me about, I don't know, what the minimum wage should be or what the ideal solution in Israel and Palestine is or something like that, like, that's not a conversation on what I have at a Wendy's or whatever, right?
We're
not solving anything there.
Or even at Thanksgiving for the most part right and so like Learning how to maneuver a conversation to maneuver a conversation without it looking like you're shutting the person up is is a good thing too stuff like you know if somebody's Starts talking about like how much they hate Orange man.
This is like came this happened to me yesterday, right?
I was talking to another faculty member Oh
They transition the conversation to like how much they hate Orange Man.
And I transitioned back to something that they said earlier about they were having mock interviews with their students.
And so I like, in comedy, this is called a callback when you reference something that somebody has said earlier in the set, right?
And you can do this in conversations too, right?
You call back to something that they said earlier.
And especially if it's something that they said earlier,
Most people love to talk about themselves and are more than happy to go back to something that they were talking about, especially if it's about themselves.
So I think this is a long-winded answer to Peter's question, which was like, how do you find the right questions?
Where are you from is a good one because it does the thing that your dad's great at, which is it gives you a bunch of hooks that you can use in the conversation to like,
Look what you know, like, oh, I can pull here a little bit.
These are all threads that I can pull on where I'm pretty sure that if I pull on there, you're going to give me something.
Yeah.
And so, yeah, I mean, it is kind of like an improv that you're doing with somebody and you just got to you have to listen to what they say to figure out what those hooks and threads are.
Yeah.
And I think you can for those people who aren't like naturally skilled at it, you can
have some things pre-planned ahead of time.
Like you've got, you know, let's say four areas of kind of pre-canned things that you can go to as your thing so that you're not having to do it spur of the moment with somebody spontaneously.
Because that's where the pressure might be if you're not that social of a person, but you can have a little bit on sports.
Another thing that I learned my former mentor
Guy was a basketball.
He was a former basketball coach.
I didn't know a lot about basketball.
I never played it.
I've watched it.
So what I learned is you can engage in a conversation when you don't actually know a lot about it because
the people who do know about it are happy to talk about it.
It's kind of like talking about themselves like you were just mentioning.
So like I could stay on the fringes of knowing the score from yesterday's game and you know some of the basics of the sport but I don't know the details of it so I can't really engage at that higher level of conversation but I
I learned I can stay on the fringes with it and like oh yeah and then and then let them talk about what did you see that walking movement you know you nod your head a little
bit and it's so tempting when you're in that position to adopt like a defensive mode but if you adopt a mode of like hey so I've always wondered this like if you adopt the I'm the idiot can you tell me the idiot like what's going on here
People like well, I would love to play expert to your idiot, right?
Yes.
Yeah
another strategy.
No,
yeah, I think that's what Justin just brought up as a big piece is people get this like fear in their heads about how they're being perceived in the conversation
and that causes a big problem but one of the key aspects of this too is that you know when's the last time like you a day after a really bad conversation even thought about it I
can't
like I can't even think of a bad conversation I've had in my head like maybe in the last week I've had one conversation that was like a little try that and I can think of that one in particular but
People don't tend to think about you after the fact if you spent them for like a brief moment for now, this is different for like job interview situations, right?
There's certain conversations that have a lot of weights and you know, some nerves are available.
But kind of like Justin was pointing out, you shouldn't worry about your like, oh, did they walk away thinking I don't know very much about the NFL?
And it's like, well, who cares if they did, especially if you don't know very well like that, that's fine.
It's just like, they know something honest about you.
And people also understand not everybody likes everything, right?
That's one of the nice things about living in a world where niche interests are so widespread that everybody knows they have an interest that no one else that around them shares.
And so it's not uncommon or it's not unimaginable for someone to be like, oh, this person doesn't really follow that, but let me tell you all about it.
All right,
well, this looks like a good spot for a break.
When we come back, one of the topics I want to hit is getting gracefully out of a conversation or to move on to somebody else.
I think that can be a tough point.
and we'll hit a couple other things of commonalities we can hit.
We'll be back in just a bit.
Auto University has an exciting new major, PPE, which stands for philosophy, politics, and economics.
Each of these fields is interesting in their own right, but they intersect in ways that are important to understand both individually and for your community.
If you find philosophy fascinating but want to make sure that your study of the subject is practical, if you enjoy economic analysis but want to see how economic laws interact with more principles,
If you are interested in politics but want to explore how economic and ethical realities constrain our political choices, you should consider the PPE program at Ottawa University.
This spring, Ottawa University is organizing a PPE league competition for politics, philosophy, and economics.
Students in this competition will compete leveraging the ideas of philosophy, politics, and economics in various events.
If you're a professor or an advisor of college students and you're interested in your school competing in PPE League this spring, contact Peter, Justin, or Russ today.
By 2030, the Wharton Institute will be known for its alumni, supporters, and participants who incorporate economic understanding with their faith in their careers, vocations, communities, and personal lives.
We have some great programming going on for high school students.
We have an online microeconomics class.
Yes, you can earn college credit for $200 by taking an online class.
It's affordable, flexible, layered with support.
Our new online micro is optimized for you.
If you'd like to consider some events for your high school students or that class, please contact Justin, Peter, or Russ today.
Alright, so we're back and I thought of one over break that I wanted to bring up and I'm 53 now and injuries, sickness, and doctor's appointments seems to be the talk for people over the age, maybe even in their late 40s, but certainly getting into 50s and on.
A common thing is,
oh yeah,
my knee has just been
kind of
acting up lately and you got any issues you're dealing with?
You know, even if it's somebody you don't know that well, you know, trying to be tactful about it, but
people will share their story of well when I was 30 I blew out my knee because I've told my blow out my knee story a thousand times and so I think that's an area that you can get into for common things and then that'll inevitably lead to well yeah I missed my sister's wedding because we were sick and then you know but it starts to set off a pretty good chain reaction I think after that
yeah can I say something about that that I think connects it to something we said earlier which is like
that this in conversations a lot of times people act defensive because they're worried about looking like an idiot.
And if one person's in a conversation starts the game of like, let me tell you how smart I am.
Oh, often the other person will mirror it and then the one up game.
Yeah.
And then it's like a weird, like smart off.
But if you can do the thing and talking about injuries as a way to do this, like it kind of puts you in the mode of.
like self-deprecation which works really well in conversations and then you can get in if the other person kind of mirrors that then you're immediately like revealing funny like flawed things about yourself that's a much more fruitful area it's it's a much more fun conversation to be a part of and you usually end there not having i mean if you're in a like contest with somebody like no let me tell you about the dumb thing i did right
um
Yeah.
You don't leave there feeling like an idiot if you lost the smart off or whatever you did.
I think it's really humanizing in a way.
Yeah.
Well, let me tell you about a
better thing
did.
But I did think we should round out the transition comment before the break.
It's about leaving conversation.
Okay.
Right.
Um, and so I don't know if you have any thoughts.
The only thing that I think, I don't think there's a good answer to this question, but the only thing that I've had the insight on is just ripping off the bandaid.
Like that's like the, you know, you don't try to like slowly me.
Like you're just like, Hey, I got an X and then you do good.
Just like a
walk away.
Right.
I got, I don't know.
You probably better insights about this though.
You've hosted a lot more.
Yeah.
But I still, it can be uncomfortable, especially when they're talking and maybe you're done, you're ready to be done with it.
But I think, uh, yeah, just.
Oh, I gotta go.
If I'm hosting something, then it's not too bad.
Oh, I gotta go get with this person.
It's great talking to you.
Or, hey, it's great to catch up with you again.
I'm gonna mosey over, so I mean it.
But it can be awkward, especially when they want to keep talking and maybe you don't.
Yeah, yeah, I think ultimately like it is just a situation as far as I found that you just have to tell them, hey, I have to be done having to talk more or less.
I actually just did this yesterday in a maybe a strange way.
I didn't even do it intentionally, but I went fishing.
I was at the dam and the sky came up and I initiated things.
He had his fishing stuff on.
I was getting my fishing stuff ready and asked him if he had been there and then and then he starts talking up.
and I was wanting to get down there like I was ready to start cancer so I'm putting on my stuff and and I thought I said what I wanted to say to him and then I'm doing something and like he's still there and then so basically staying preoccupied with something else and not making contact with him not exactly the most graceful way but I kind of figured out after the fact when he's like oh I see you're busy I'll let you get get ready and he's still nice about it but
I unintentionally blew him off, honestly.
I thought we were done with what talking about stuff, but it turned out it was his first time backfishing and he wanted to know if things were hitting and whatever, so.
But I wanted to get down there.
So that's the other way.
Stonewall.
Turn your line of sight in a different direction.
I'm not good at ending the conversation.
I mean, like you guys, I guess I'm...
I don't have any great strategies for it.
Having kids helps, because you can always... Yep.
Yeah.
My kids or...
Justin's always leaving my office talking about having to go pick up his kids.
He's telling it interestingly.
It's unrelated now.
My wife doesn't even
have time.
Yeah, it seems like all of our best strategy is something like find something else more pressing that you can use as an excuse.
Yeah.
And... Well,
and how are you guys with silence?
I am terrible with silence, but that's almost kind of a skill too, where it's all right to let things die down and like, what do I say next?
What do I say next?
And I usually want to fill the air too fast, I think I've learned in general.
I don't know, do you guys, how do you think about on silence when that happens?
Is that where you say, well, I got to get going and that's the time to exit because that's kind of how I feel when you get that silence.
But I've learned some people are better with silence.
Obviously, I'm not good with it because I'm rambling here.
You've asked a question.
Peter's trying to get along.
You see
how I'm waiting for these guys to jump in.
It's
kind
of like starting a car, right?
You give it a few attempts and then eventually like you do have to cut it off, I think.
And so, yeah, I mean, one silence is not the end of the world.
You spend as much time as you need to like think of something to restart.
But
after you do that a
few times, it's clear that there's probably like a, you know, it'd be better than not be in the conversation.
Yeah.
Like it, you know, everybody has that feeling about silence.
It's not just you.
That
is
part of, and like this is tried advice at this point, but part of the recognition here is to recognize that the person talking to you likely is as like mentally concerned about the conversation as you are.
Like if you're worried about the silence, the other person probably is too.
Yeah.
I think there's exceptions to that.
Like people who are just like, you know,
Not interested in the conversation or whatever but Justin do you have something?
I think it's a big day like I think this comes up in two distinct situations And they're very different one is the silence that happens when you are like talking when you're standing with somebody like It's a silence where one of you can easily walk away from the other And the other is a silence that happens Somewhere we're like if you're sitting next to somebody on a bus or you're in a car with somebody
hmm
And you're trapped.
You're trapped or like it would take a lot more effort for you to leave.
And I think silence is in the first instance where it's like you're standing with somebody.
Those are great times to leave, right?
You don't have to fill those because filling them turns into why can't this conversation end, right?
But the silence is when you're in like a car or in a bus.
That's when I think if you try to fill all those silences, like then I think sometimes you sound crazy to people who are introverts, like I am.
Like let's just sit
here
and not talk.
I enjoy the silence of a car ride or something like that.
It means I'm comfortable with you that I'm not trying to fill this air or something like that.
Well, I wanted to bring us to one other major topic of conversation about conversations, which is this idea of small talk.
And I want to present, like, two, what sounds like, at least on paper, very opposing views of how conversation should be.
And I think maybe each view has a little bit of truth, but I want to try to identify where the borders of that are.
And actually, maybe, like, maybe just don't think, no, that person's stupid and the other person's right.
I don't know.
But so here's the two opposing views.
One view is, I'm going to take as a quote from G.K.
Chesterton.
He was a theologian slash writer, and he has this quote that I see used often, and I love Chesterton, but I have very mixed feelings about the quote.
The quote is, I never discuss anything except politics and religion.
There is nothing else to discuss.
And
so
that's one quote.
And now I'm going to mirror that with a quote of an origin that I actually don't remember as a comic.
And so Justin knows comedy better than me.
So he might be able to pick out.
And I know Russ knows some folks too.
So maybe one of you can.
But the comic's a bit was something along the lines of, I hate people who say that they don't like small talk.
Because what else do you do?
Do you walk up to people and say, hey, what's the meaning of life?
Is that the only way you know how to converse with people?
You must be an inseparable person to have a conversation with if you can't engage in small talk.
Like, I sort of think there's a place for both of these attitudes, but I don't really know exactly how to mesh them or fit them together, so I'm just gonna throw that out.
Well, as I brought up earlier, the Master Small Talk is the way to, I think, win people over.
I'm guessing my boss...
did the Carnegie book years ago.
So if the goal is to actually have that conversation, then I think the comedian is totally wrong that you do have to have some small talk.
No, the
comedian's right then, because the comedian likes small talk.
Oh, he likes small talk.
You're saying the people you don't like small talk are weirdos.
He wants to jump right into the head and stuff right away.
So yeah, I think if that's the intent, but if the intent is to give a lecture to somebody, then maybe the Chester Tim thing is
is just jump right into the heat of it, right?
So I don't, I mean, I try to warm up my class a little bit with small talk and see if there's any questions at the time, but, and I know that Professor Jacobson, John Jacobson, he warms up his class for a while, it sounds like.
He warms up
his class with content and then
he
gets the small talk.
Just kidding.
I think it's a virtue of being good at small talk that it's not
How about the weather?
Like it's not thoughtless.
Sure.
And you get people, you reveal things about yourself and you get people to reveal things about themselves in kind of innocuous manners.
And so I think that like there's a virtue of doing the Chesterton thing, but not making everybody like you can talk.
about the weather in a way that reveals your religious worldview or that makes it, you know, that reveals your sense of life.
It doesn't have to just be canned BS.
Yeah.
And so I think you can do the Chesterton thing without always
Literally talking about religion or the weather.
Yeah, I think that
there's a
religion appalled.
There's two ways to interpret the Chestnut encode one is the way that you oftentimes hear right now especially in the political left but by political activists in general which is like the personal is the political right and so to that sort of person your entire life should be surrounded upon like expounding
whatever central political issues important to you, whether that's like a conflict in the Middle East or, you know, domestic policy or, you know, workers' rights.
There's that funny Seinfeld episode where Elaine's got the communist
boyfriends
and he goes up to Kramer's like, you know, the Santas at this place are making double and he causes like this big thing because
he's always
just like, you know, uh, jockeying for workers' rights.
Like that's all he does.
So that's what I think of when I think of like this, the personal and the political.
But you're right, I think there's another way to read this Chesterton quote where what he is saying is something like, well, we live in this world that like ultimately all topics are coming down to, you know, how should humans be?
And, you know, what's our relationship to the eternal or something like that?
And really every conversation is about that in one way or another, just not always explicitly, right?
And so that's the more, in my view, agreeable way to read Chesterton there.
I'm not sure if that's what he meant or not.
I don't know the context of the quote well enough.
I just heard it kind of snipped out of context, but that would be my guess too.
My understanding is that he was a pretty good conversationalist.
And so I think a more rounded view is something like, well, yeah, everything is about religion and politics.
But not everything's about religion and politics, right?
It's like, you know, kind of an embrace of the fact that all the normal things of life are actually embedded in something greater.
But that doesn't mean we ignore the ordinary things of life.
I saw, I'm sure it was a fake Facebook post once.
It was this old lady in the post.
I'd like to apologize to everybody in Beverly's fabrics this morning.
My actions do not reflect who I am as a person.
It's just like it's one of the things that makes you write the backstory in your own head.
Yeah.
Yeah, and so I thought that was funny, but there's a sense in which like Your actions at Beverly's fabrics should be an advertisement for your religion in your politics That's right.
And if that's right then like the way you conduct small talk ought to be an advertisement for that too And I think you're right that this idea that the person was the political is often interpreted and
You know, I live in a very liberal town where I think people do this, where it's like... I couldn't even get a plastic bag there yesterday when I went to the grocery store.
Your political views have to be written on your shirt and on your car, like legibly written rather than something that's like lived out and that other people, you let other people interpret.
Yeah.
And every time I walk down Mass Street, I realize that I've lost track of all the flags.
Like, I don't know which flag means what anymore.
There's too many of them.
I've lost track.
I don't know if they're country flags.
I don't know what's going on anymore.
So yeah.
Well, I think that I don't know, Russ, unless you or Justin had anything else, I think we mostly covered it.
We didn't really talk much about social anxiety.
I don't think there's really a big answer to that other than I think Justin's strategy is a pretty good one for dealing with that, which is that you can always put yourself
in a situation where you don't have to be the one talking if you find that thing that the other person wants to talk about.
And also just recognizing that in conversation, nervousness is often a two-way street and I think that helps
to use things.
And have a plan of a couple, couple cans thing.
I mean, I was just thinking about how in San Diego, they don't talk about the weather probably because it doesn't change.
It's always beautiful.
Like God gave us varying weather here in Kansas.
We must talk about the weather way, you know, a hundred fold more than people do in San Diego.
There you go.
It's always beautiful.
So the fact that we have these ups and downs gives us small talk.
49 degrees in Los Angeles right now.
I got to get picked by kids.
The exit strategy continues.
Here we go.
All right.
Well, that looks like a good spot to wrap.
This has been a production of the Bortony Institute here at Ottawa University.
I'd like to thank you all for listening.
Bistar Reading helps other people find us on the podcast and otherwise just pass this along to your friends and family that might like to take a listen.
Other than that, be fruitful and multiply.
Thanks.
message is brought to you by Avocado Mattress.
When you're shopping for a mattress, you can spend hours reading reviews and scrolling through photos.
But the only way to truly know if a mattress is right for you is to feel it for yourself.
That's why Avocado invites you to come lie down.
Every Avocado mattress is got-certified organic, assembled in our California facility with organic cotton, wool, and latex.
No polyurethane foams, no fiberglass, certified maidsafe, and EWG verified.
It's a difference you can feel.
So curl up.
Try any of our avocado mattresses in person at an avocado mattress store or 600 premier retail locations nationwide.
Find out which of our five comfort levels is right for you because buying a mattress shouldn't be a guessing game and there's no one-size-fits-all when it comes to better sleep.
Find your comfort.
Come lie down at Avocado.
Shop the holiday sale now and get up to 20% off at AvocadoGreenMatress.com or select retailers nationwide.
That's AvocadoGreenMatress.com to get up to 20% off AvocadoGreenMatress.com.
If you're enjoying this KXEL podcast, then we invite you to listen to KXEL's great programming in real time too.
You can hear us on the radio, statewide at AM 1540 and in the Cedar Valley at FM 100.5.
We stream live on the web, not only through KXEL.com, but also through our free KXEL mobile app.
And Alexa knows how to find us too.
It's where Iowa comes to talk, News Talk 1540, KXEL.
John Jacobson here with Curtis Haymes.
You know, Curtis, I recall over half a century ago watching those original television ads by Kurt and Norma Haymes on then WMT, now KGAN Channel 2.
These were over-the-air channel assignments.
And I remember
playing Cracklin Rosie and how appropriate we're still playing Cracklin Rosie today as the Neil Diamond life story is hitting the stage as a musical and it's nice to know that some things not only survive but thrive and Curtis Hames Holmes is one of those stories what a magnificent legacy
business and vocation your grandfather grandmother set up that you are custodial steward of today along with the rest of the next generation of hams is
well good morning and thank you for those kind words we love love looking to the future while still honoring our past
Curtis
There is so much good going on right now, and I know that if you get out to your two communities, you literally have manufactured homes both at Summit View and at Grand View.
Talk about these.
These are like two beautiful Iowa small towns on the edge of Cedar Rapids with both rural and urban accessibility.
Yes, absolutely.
We are on the southwest side of Cedar Rapids, a thriving, growing, the newer side of town.
We're getting more amenities all the time.
The city's building a huge library over here.
The Westdale Mall area is changing and growing.
More restaurants, more growth over here.
Very easy access to the airport, down to Iowa City.
Down
to
kinnick stadium that's for football fans.
We think we have a the best of all worlds here spacious
You're
not really out on the farm, but you're not downtown Ease of access to anywhere five minutes from the highway ten minutes from downtown
Well, well, this is awesome Curtis Hames the Hames Homes people guys not Curtis.
I'm gonna give you a very tough multiple choice question Here's the question
What amenities make Hames's all-age communities feel like home?
A. Site lease, including garbage and recycle service, stormwater fees and property taxes on the land.
Or B. Abundant green spaces, recreation areas, playgrounds and community events.
Or C. Safe, peaceful environments.
or D, Off Street parking and mail delivery to individual home sites, or E, emergency storm shelters, or F, on-site management to serve resident needs, or G, all of the above.
All of the above, all of the above.
Correct, the bells are going off and the crowd gives its assent of approval.
Well, multiple choices, my favorite in school.
Very excited to know the answer here.
We are very proud to be a safe, clean, planned, family-owned community.
We love providing all these amenities for our homeowners.
Maintaining our community is one of our biggest goals.
When communities get rough and they fall into disrepair, it's very, very hard to get them back.
We want to have a lot of discipline and work together with our homeowners.
and make the financial commitments ourselves to keeping the community top notch and one of the nicest in Iowa and maybe the nation.
You do that magnificently well.
Again, these are safe, affordable, beautiful homes for families.
The key is we got a lot of people listening in today, Curtis, on this giant 50,000 watt blowtorch.
How do they get in touch with you?
Where do they drive to take a look?
Where do they telephone?
Where do they find you online?
Where do they email
you?
We accept all forms of communication.
Someone wants the call.
Someone wants to email.
You want to send a smoke signal.
You want to stop by.
We love all of the above.
319-377.
4-8-6-3 is how you reach myself or my co-worker Clint.
Our website is HaynesHomes.com.
We keep it very simple.
You type it into the Google machine.
It's just Haynes Homes, our mobile home.
Cedar Rapids will get us right away.
Our stop by.
We love to take appointments.
We love walk-ins.
Please come see us on this beautiful weekend.
We're on the corner of Wilson and West Post Road.
we're off of stony point on the southwest side of the theater at
guys go see these wonderful people i always enjoy my visits you can always tell they fly the flag of america iowa and always for our missing in action p o delby as they love our veterans hams homes the homes people this is john jakemson telling you to catch the webcast out there in perpetuity
just type in kxl.com slash jacobsen sponsored also by Midwest Renewable Energy LLC Energy for Strong America Renewable fuels ethanol out of our western neighbors in eastern Nebraska
Revenues for our ag families, our food supply kept to the United States, not relying on foreign Mideast dollars.
Guys, be safe, be smart, be good, be strong.
Love Jesus Christ in this Lenten season, and God bless us, everyone!
Bye-bye!