It's not Dom Salvia, but he will be back tomorrow.
Instead, you're stuck with me, his producer, Jess P.S., and my fantastic co-host for the day, Harvey J. K., Professor Emeritus of Democracy and Justice Studies at the University of Wisconsin, Green Bay.
In the previous hour, we've been talking truth.
the importance of truth, the value of truth, especially in a time of lies.
Now wrapping up this discussion a little bit, we've got a couple calls and a couple texts that I want to get to.
And then in this hour, we're going to talk about what the real conflict is.
Is it between Democrats and Republicans?
I think not.
I think it's between oligarchs and the rest of us.
Now, Harvey J. K., you have a storied history of studying this conflict between oligarchs and the rest of us.
And so I value the expertise that you can bring us and the perspective that you can share on what this conflict has been and how far back it goes because it's not just the past couple of years.
In fact, as we've been discussing, it's been decades on decades.
So we're going to get to that.
But first, a couple of texts and a couple of calls in.
Jim from Kenosha says, we are happy to be with you, Jess.
I'm happy to be with you too, Jim.
He follows up with, Trump speaks yesterday.
Enemy is not our enemy.
In fact, they never were.
And further news, Americans hate eggs and always have.
Stay tuned for further announcements.
Now see, the funny thing is I can't tell Jim if this is satire or...
Not, because it could very well have been that Trump came out just to say that, you know, Americans hate eggs.
That's why they're not buying them.
I mean, of course, what else could it possibly have
No, that's the thing.
I can't tell anymore.
Is it a headline from The Onion?
Is it from The New York Times?
I really, really can't tell anymore.
We've got a text here from the 262 saying, I'm thinking of the movie Liar Liar with Jim Carrey.
That is one of my favorite films.
And just trying to imagine Trump being afflicted.
with that condition of being absolutely incapable of telling a lie for 24 hours would be really, really something, really something.
Cam from Appleton says that he is in the 5051 Discord server and it's hilarious how many people are so effing mad and it gives him a little hope.
Yeah.
people are mad and They deserve to be so and is that a picture of Harvey K from back in the day cam?
It's possible that cam has unearthed a picture of you from The 70s cam follow-up please I
I'm doing okay, and I'm sorry, but Trump is issued a directive not to sit down to teach kids anything that might make them feel uncomfortable.
I mean that is
Make that makes it you know the history is uncomfortable.
I mean historical facts out there.
I mean that history of slavery is uncomfortable the history of the United States I mean even in contemporary times of the anti-Semitism that existed in the United States prior to World War two where we could have rescued Hundreds of thousands if not millions of people
them immigrate to the United States Then I saw saw Saturday a little a little blurb that in 1921 Russia
Invaded the Ukraine to because they tried to break away from the Russian Empire collapse if you won't will establish Ukraine again and the Soviets came in and retook Ukraine
is just It's just staggers the imagination.
I mean the books that I've read in the past ten years 1491 by Charles Mann 1493 now I've read that and another book by Charles Mann talking about you know the pre-columbian and post-columbian impact of
that contact of Europeans and people from Asia discovering the new world, and what happened as a result of that, how it created our contemporary society.
I mean, but we want to talk about, not teach about the opium wars.
I mean, it is just, it just, it's insane.
We don't want heroes.
We don't want to recognize that there really has been progress that really struggles in America do matter, have liberated generations.
And I can tell you that while all of the other tragedies and ironies are indeed all too true, if we fail to remember
the struggles and the progress we will have lost because what the likes of the right especially but also centrist and liberals included often have done what they've often done is they have obscured or suppressed the memory of how real progress happens and if we don't come to appreciate the struggles from the bottom up that
For example, let me give you a good example.
He
Okay, so Undeniably Lincoln was pivotal and fundamental essential to the to bringing an end to slavery the signing of the Emancipation Proclamation and what we often do forget What we often do forget is that when the civil war began as union troops moved into the south thousands and thousands of black slaves men and women
Raced as quickly as they could to the Union lines to offer themselves as workers or soldiers in the Union cause and it was they're doing so that Empowered Lincoln to sign the Emancipation Proclamation
it was the fundamental moment you might say the Emancipation Proclamation in declaring that slavery will come
to an end in this country and then of course the 13th amendment and associated 14th and 15th amendments.
So we just shouldn't lose touch with the fundamental progressive indeed radical story that is America and let's not forget those stories are themselves the popular response to the viciousness all too often that has prevailed in our history.
Human history is one of radical cruelty and radical kindness, radical regression and radical progression.
We are a species of duality and it is important, it is vital that we be able to hold that nuance and study and reckon with the worst things that our ancestors have done because that allows us to accept the best things that they have done.
The basic story in the American past, the only story ultimately worth the telling, is the story of the struggle between the creative and the frustrating elements in the democratic adventure.
I love that.
Can you
And we are going to be talking a little bit more of taking hold of that history.
Because there is a struggle in this country and I don't think I really don't believe in my heart of hearts that it is between Republicans and Democrats I believe that those are titles that people have assumed on to some of themselves I believe that this is between oligarchs a few few people
Who have an incredible absurd amount of wealth and control and power and the rest of us Tom from Jackson texts in he feels that this conflict is one between good and evil that he has felt since 2016 and evil force has taken has fallen upon this country and clouded good people's minds I can understand that I can reckon with that
Later in this hour, we are going to be discussing a bit of the history of some of the progress that we have made as a country, some of the economic progress that we have made to shift control out of the hands of the few, out of the hands of the oligarchs and into the hands of the many, of we, the people, and the backlash against that.
Because Harvey Kay, this is, unless I am quite wrong, one of your greatest areas of study.
And this is something that we've brought you on to talk about.
about once a week here on The Dom Salvia
So we're going to dig into that a bit later in the hour, as well as continuing to take your calls and your texts at 855-752-4842.
That's 855-75 Civic.
Human history is difficult and complex and complicated, and we should be able to reckon with it.
and to take hold of it and participate in it.
You can do that coming up April 1st.
We have a general election here in the state of Wisconsin where your voice and your vote matters.
Vote for Wisconsin Supreme Court Justice to be Judge Susan Crawford.
And make sure you also vote for Superintendent of Public Instruction, two candidates for that.
And if you're interested about learning more about those two candidates, check out Busted Pencils here on Civic Media.
We'll be right back here on The Dom Salvia Show.
Welcome back to the Dom Selvia show.
Welcome.
If you're just joining us, I'm not Dom Selvia.
Dom Selvia is not in the building, but he will be tomorrow.
I am Jess P.S., producer of this program.
And joining me today for the entire show is Harvey J.K., Professor Emeritus of Democracy and Justice Studies at the University of Wisconsin Green Bay, where we've been talking about truth, complicated nature of human beings and human history.
and starting to get into a conversation of what is the real conflict that is unfolding in our country.
Before we go any farther, we've gotten a couple texts and a couple calls in, and I just want to...
Give a little eye contact to them Neil from Glendale.
I know this texture.
I grew up with them It doesn't surprise me that Trump is lying about Russia as an aggressor in this war.
I expect that garbage from him I'm impaled that so many including his spineless cabinet are buying this.
I agree dad.
I Agree it doesn't surprise me.
It does make me a little bit nauseous
But it doesn't necessarily surprise me.
Harvey, do the lies about
didn't.
Oh,
Joe?
I'd like to hear what you have to say.
I guess I'm not asking for an answer to a question, but more for you to riff about tariffs in the past.
in the context of, okay, you start with a tariff and then what happens after that?
Warren Buffett has come out.
He doesn't very often and he has described what's happening by saying this.
He says, tariffs are an act of war.
I would like to expand on that a little bit more in terms of what's going on with our tariffs against Canada of somebody who had been an ally and a terrific trading partner.
There is an article within the CBC, people can look it up in cbc.ca, that's their news in Canada.
The title is Trudeau says Trump's dumb trade war is designed to collapse the Canadian economy.
But it's more than that.
Within the article he says he's trying to collapse the Canadian economy to make it easier to annex us.
To annex is to invade.
It is to take over.
It is an act of war.
And I'm interested in, you know, the lies that are being presented to Fulmantus is that, oh, it's the fentanyl that's, you know, pouring over the Canadian border, which we all know is a lie because it's less than 1% of all the fentanyl that's within the United States.
So what I would ask you is your thoughts about this, about how things can go way beyond where you think they're going to go in looking at another detail that happened in the last week, and that was that Trudeau, who has, as his ultimate leader, the King of England, excuse me, King Charles, made a trip over to England and met with the Prime Minister, but also had a private meeting with King Charles.
In reading about this,
the king does not have powers except what the parliament gives him except with one exception and that is that he is the head of the armed forces and has the power apparently to declare war through the royal prerogative he can declare this on
potential or actual hostile military operations.
These are under the royal prerogative.
And I find this fascinating at a time when NATO may not be able to be called upon because things are too tumultuous and people too afraid of leaving their troops.
So, you know, to counter the Russian thoughts, whatever is happening with Russia.
I guess I just would like you to riff on this based on what happened in the 30s with tariffs and then the ultimate nightmare of World War II.
What is happening that you would go ahead and anger an ally with these deleterious tariffs?
He said that they are going to be quite brutal to the Canadian economy.
Can you riff on this a little bit in terms of what God's name might be going on here in terms of trying to annex Canada?
Thank you.
I appreciate it, Harvey.
I could I could say that It's a little hard to riff because my mind has is constantly changing on this on this question not the question of tariffs the question of what Trump Ultimately intends.
I mean he said he wants Greenland.
He said let's make Canada the 51st state.
I mean The very way in which he presents that implies that he truly wants to anger
to outrage the Canadians.
There is nothing, first of all, the U.S.
and Canada have been as intimate of allies as one could imagine now for decades upon decades.
Our northern security, people should look at the globe, but don't look at the globe in the normal way as we think of it as a map.
Think of it as looking at it from down upon the Arctic.
So Russia, Canada, the United States, you come over the top, it's Canada and the United States.
Our security is intimately connected to Canadian security.
Now, why is he seeking to unsettle that relationship first by way of tariff wars or whatever?
Well, the tariffs are not going to make American industry suddenly mushroom.
It's just not going to happen.
In fact, working people are going to be paying more as a consequence of
the
if we assume he's an ignoramus that's easy to assume okay yeah well yes and no I mean somebody obviously got to him because he's not very original in his thinking either it's not out of the question that Musk is literally an agent of destruction and I and I say that seriously that's what I've come to
an agent of destruction.
I'm just PS producer of this program with my guest for the day Harvey J. K. Professor Emeritus of Democracy and Justice Studies.
Give us a call 855-752-4842 more when we get back.
Back to the Dom Selvia Show.
I'm not Dom.
I'm Jess P.S., the producer of this program.
Joining me all day today is Harvey J.K., Professor Emeritus of Democracy and Justice Studies at the University of Wisconsin Green Bay.
It's quite the title.
Maybe we should shorten it just to touch for you.
Now I like saying the whole thing.
Today we've been discussing truth, truth in a time of lies and how to reckon with a complicated history, which is all
important.
In this segment, I'd like to get your thoughts, Harvey, on the class wars, the class wars that have defined so much of American political history.
Tonight, we are expecting to see from the current president an address to the joint session of Congress, not officially a state of the union, but a speech in the
in the manner of a state of the union, how this address has typically taken place and looking at specifically two instances in which it's been used to portray a very positive potential future for the working people, every American person who works in order to get through the day, as opposed to what we're expecting to see tonight.
Before we get into that though, do want to take a moment and remind everyone,
Next segment, our last segment of the day, tell us something good.
In a time when it can be so easy to get so bogged down in everything that is bad, everything that is harmful and hurtful and full of lies, it is absolutely vital to take time to reflect on that which is good and to preserve that which is good.
It is, in fact, a form of resistance to not give power to the forces that want to keep us down.
So tell us something good in that last segment.
Now, Harvey Kay.
In this country, is our greatest threat, is our greatest conflict between Democrats and Republicans?
But let me put it this way.
Let me put it this way.
If we look, if we put this all in sort of historical perspective,
First thing to understand, and I tell this to people who ask me about, you know, Democrats and Republicans.
I said, Republicans today are more extreme than they have been ever, perhaps, ever.
Sure.
In what way?
Well, in the fact that they have literally fully embraced the Trump agenda and they have reverted to what we would think of as what was once upon a time the Southern.
Democrats politics, politics that exudes racism, okay, wants to keep women, you know, second class citizens, not, you know, unable to control their own bodies.
I mean, it's, it's not unlike going back in time, the kinds of things that they're interested in pursuing.
And in many ways, they've become the old Dixie crats of the past.
But here's the thing.
I blame the Democrats for where we are today.
In what way?
Well, here's the thing.
The Democratic Party was the majority party from 1932 all the way into the 1970s.
They, yes, they lost elections, but it was a rare, but it was rare for Republicans to take control of Congress.
Very rare.
Okay.
Now, in the 1970s, in the 1970s, and this, we almost want to step out of the parties for a minute, in the 1970s, the corporate executive class in this country essentially declared war on the democratic achievements, small D, democratic achievements of the 1930s and the 1960s.
Now, business leaders
despised the New Deal in the 1930s and they despised FDR.
And there were even conspiracies to take him down.
You might.
OK, his best way.
Sure.
But but working people loved FDR.
They loved FDR because he knew that he would fight for them and empower them to to fight for themselves in the workplace.
OK, so when.
When he took office, he made it very clear in a speech just before November election of 1932 that America's big problem was that it had given too much power to what you and I just referred to as the oligarchs, what he called the Titans of industry.
And by doing that, Americans had lost touch with the promise of the Declaration of Independence.
liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
And the understanding that that was not set in stone and never to be looked at again, it was in fact something to be understood in terms of history.
So for example, what we might ask today, what does it take to be able to pursue life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?
And he asked that question in the 1910 to the 1920s and going into the 1930s.
And I would argue that he ran
for president in 1932, not only to help lead the nation out of the depression, but also to bring an end to what was known as the Gilded Age ruling class, the amigarchy that had come out of the late 19th century.
And the best proof I have of his intentions are in 1936, when he was nominated to run for president again, for a second term, he actually pointed a finger at that
oligarchy class class of corporate the corporate elite i think i've read this before on this oh you have but it bears repeating please he said these economic royalists he compared them to the political royalists of the rebel of the revolution versus the patriots these economic royalists complain that we seek to overthrow the institutions of america what they really complain of is that we seek to take away their power our allegiance to american institution
requires the overthrow of this kind of power.
Basically, he was making it very clear.
If they were coming after him, they were coming after him because of the threat that he and organized labor represented, and that it was imperative that we understand that their power should be weakened.
He called for higher taxes on the rich.
He called actually for capping.
the incomes of the rich.
And even as he was signing into law, basically the National Labor Relations Act and created the National Labor Relations Board, which empowered the federal government to stand behind workers in their efforts to organize labor unions.
Well, in 1941, with World War II already underway in Europe and in East Asia, he gave a State of the Union message, January 6, 1941,
And in the state of the union address, which came to be known as the four freedoms speech,
a little bit familiar with Americans that the fascists were not going to tell us when they were going to attack.
And he laid out the imperative for the United States to become the arsenal of democracy, to provide the wherewithal for Britain and its allies to withstand the German Blitzkrieg and the German assault.
That had already swept all across Europe.
And.
He said, it's our task to create, or turn ourselves into the arsenal of democracy.
And then he said, and this is important, he said, but that doesn't mean we give up what we accomplished in the new deal.
Okay, the empowerment of labor, the creation of the Social Security Act, the creation of the Fair Housing Act, the setting of minimum wages, the provision of a monthly income for single parent households that they have in their mind, women,
single you know single mothers who were raising children.
I mean it was a dynamic social democratic moment the 1930s and in 1941 he said though we must become the arsenal of democracy we should not give up what we have accomplished.
In fact he even said the basic things expected by our people of their political and economic system are simple.
equality of opportunity for youth and others, jobs for those who can work, security for those who need it, the ending of special privilege for the few, the preservation of civil liberties for all.
Now, let me be clear, he made terrible mistakes as president along the way, okay, such as the internment of the Japanese Americans.
Yes.
But it is the case that when he spoke, what he then went on to say was intended for all Americans and all Americans heard him.
over radio, say this, in the future days, which we seek to make secure, we look forward to a world founded upon four essential human freedoms.
The first is freedom of speech and expression.
The second is freedom of every person to worship God in his own way.
The third is freedom from want.
The fourth is freedom from fear.
And that became,
the ideal for which the United States entered World War II.
Again, the tragedies we know about.
Now, three years later in 1944, with some confidence that Americans and their allies were going to win the war, he gave a new, a second, well, he gave a State of the Union message every year, but he gave a second really historic State of the Union address, January 11th, 1944.
In this speech, he talked about the imperative of pursuing the war effort to conclusion.
He talked about the imperative of continued sacrifice.
But then he said, we have reached a point in our history where we understand that needy men and women are not free.
And the time has come for us to create a second Bill of Rights.
an economic bill of rights.
And here's what he offered as part of that bill of rights.
The right to a useful job in industries or shops or farms or mines.
The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation.
How's that?
The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him his family a decent living.
He goes on to talk about the right of every family to a decent home.
The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health.
The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident and employment.
Last but not least, the right to a good education.
And I want you to know that this didn't come out of his own imagination.
He had commissioned surveys in 1943.
asking Americans what they wanted after the war.
For example.
Incredible.
And 85% of Americans, and that includes 75% of Republicans and 95% of Democrats wanted national health care, guaranteed national health care.
In every one of the questions asked, Americans
across the board in great majority wanted the right to an education.
They wanted the right to a decent home.
They wanted all of the things that he had laid out that he would lay out in the State of the Union message of 1944.
And he ran again in 1944 for president on that idea as his platform.
And I will also tell you that the labor movement, the FML and CIO,
They rallied along with the NAACP, along with the National Farmers Union.
Americans wanted those economic rights.
They were convinced they could do it because of what they had accomplished.
First of all, in the New Deal, and second of all, in the war effort to defeat fascism.
Now, after the war, well, Roosevelt had died a month before the end of the war in Europe.
But after the war, Americans continued to want those very things.
However, Republicans and Southern Democrats opposed it.
Why Republicans?
Because they knew that business did not want those things.
Why did the Southern Democrats oppose it?
Despite the fact they probably needed them more than anyone.
because they did not want to integrate their hospitals.
So racism and capitalism got in the way of Americans securing what the overwhelming majority wanted.
Harvey K, professor emeritus of democracy and justice studies at the University of Wisconsin-Green Bay, our co-host for today.
We will be back with one last segment where we encourage you, tell us something good.
Now, I see two callers on our list.
We will get to you, and you will absolutely be able to share what's on your mind.
However, first, you're going to have to tell us something good here on The Dom Salvia Show with myself, Jess P.S., guest hosing for the day.
We'll be right
And welcome back to the Dom Selvia Show for one final segment without Dom Selvia, but he will be back tomorrow.
For today, I'm Jess P.S.
Producer of this fine program joined by Harvey J.K., Professor Emeritus of Democracy and Justice Studies at the University of Wisconsin-Green Bay, here in our final segment of the day, where we invite you all to tell us something good.
We're gonna start with the text that we got in Megan from son prairie says something good my grandma beat colorectal cancer confirmed 100% cancer-free as of today Enormous congratulations to you and your entire family and most especially your grandmother Megan that is absolutely Fantastic news.
Thank you for sharing that with us.
We're going to get to the phone lines where if you've been on hold and you have something to share with us about the daily news or about anything that we've been talking about today, you may absolutely tell us that.
But first, first, you got to tell us something good.
We're going to start with Ollie from the North Woods.
What is that, my friend?
Well, my something good is that yesterday I reached out to Governor Evers office, left a message.
for him and also one for his secretary.
And today I received a phone call back from his office from a very nice young lady who read back my concerns to me, which showed that they were paying attention.
She asked for contact information so that they could get back to me.
with further inquiries.
That is fantastic, Ollie.
It's difficult to know that there are people out there, there are government people out there who do care and who are willing to listen to their constituents.
And it truly gives me hope, gives me hope.
Thank you for that, Collin.
Thank you for sharing something good.
Civic engagement.
Always good.
And something that here at the Civic Media Radio Network, we try to promote as often as we can.
So yes, when you have concerns, when you have things that you want to see in your government, you are the government.
We the people run this ship.
Give them a call, send them messages, talk to your elected officials and have your voice heard.
Ellie Tom, you are next.
Tell something good.
Just first off, as you said, we, the people ultimately are the government and we must never forget that.
Something good.
I don't know if Harvey will agree with me on this one or not, but I am a proud FDR Democrat and will continue to be.
And I actually, something good is I watched the Roosevelt on Amazon this weekend.
I learned a lot.
Is that a movie, TV show?
What is
It's actually a documentary.
It's by Ken Burns on FDR and Theodore Roosevelt.
It's on Amazon.
And Eleanor
Oh, yeah.
Definitely Eleanor Roosevelt.
Absolutely.
Thank you for that, Harvey.
But everyone should watch.
It's about seven episodes, about two hours each episode.
But it will give you a real idea of...
you know, where it is that we should be going and who it is that we should be led by, which is FDR.
And Harvey, one quick question for you.
Do you think JBP, JB Pritzker could possibly be our next FDR?
Maybe it takes a billionaire to beat a billionaire and also maybe he'll actually move in a progressive direction.
What do you think?
I have to say I really am.
I mean, there are a few governors as we as we realized a year ago that would be good.
Bashir down in Kentucky would be good.
But I think Pritzker is the most interesting one right now.
Former students of mine who are down in Illinois studying, they're very impressed.
They think he's very pro-labor, very progressive.
So I won't predict his future in politics.
It could be.
presidency, who knows?
But I definitely think you're on to something with Pritzker.
Yes.
Well, this is quite a bit lighter, but I'm associated with both the Madison Jazz Society and also Jazz Unlimited in Milwaukee.
The Madison Jazz Society has got a monthly jam that they hold at Cafe Coliseum.
The jam itself is run as a house band, usually with three young jazz musicians.
And every time I've been to one of these, which is almost all of them, the musicians have just been incredible.
We also have a monthly workshop at a place called COPA
in Fitchburg.
And that is an educational opportunity.
And then a jam follows it.
It's run by professional jazz musicians from the Madison area.
Jazz and that kind of music, both the more modern and the standard, it's alive and well in Wisconsin.
I will say that that is absolutely something good.
The 50-51 movement, I will put information on them in the show notes.
Check them out.
There are protests around the country today, including in Wisconsin.
That is absolutely something good.
This has been the Dom Selvia Show, co-hosted today by Jess P.S.
and Harvey J. K. Tune in tomorrow when Dom will be back in the seat.
Now, stay tuned for Nightlight with Pete Schwabba.
And if you want to catch the Not State of the Union, it will
We'll be on Swift Media.
Have a great night.
We'll see you tomorrow.